Aussie Tennis Fans... [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Aussie Tennis Fans...

JustIncredible
03-13-2005, 06:52 PM
If Lleyton Hewitt were not Australian, and say, American, would you like him?

It seems like the majority of his fans are Aussies, and their blind love for him is mostly due to national pride, not necessarily because they enjoy his game, attitude, etc.

I may be wrong, however. Please speak truthfully.

euroka1
03-13-2005, 07:01 PM
[QUOTE=JustIncredible

It seems like the majority of his fans are Aussies, and their blind love for him is mostly due to national pride, not necessarily because they enjoy his game, attitude, etc.

I may be wrong, however. Please speak truthfully.[/QUOTE]

OK, I'm Australian. It's not blind love by any stretch but there's an element of national pride in one's enjoyment of what is a very good game. The attitude does not bother and remarks like the celebrated "dissing" one appeal because of the built-in Australian idiomatic usage. Maybe if I changed nationality, I'd start to appreciate Roddick's on-court antics.

adeegee
03-13-2005, 07:30 PM
I remember when Pat Rafter was coming to the latter stages of his career, the Aussies absolutely loved him and weren't that fond of Hewitt. I suppose now that he's retired and Hewitt is the only Aussie with a shot of winning a slam his popularity has gone up. It's understandable that people get behind a player because of his nationality. Take Henman for example, if he wasn't British I'd probably dislike him quite a lot. But since he's British I have a bit of a soft spot for him and want him to win all the time (unless he faces Rafa).

euroka1
03-13-2005, 08:31 PM
I remember when Pat Rafter was coming to the latter stages of his career, the Aussies absolutely loved him and weren't that fond of Hewitt. I suppose now that he's retired and Hewitt is the only Aussie with a shot of winning a slam his popularity has gone up. It's understandable that people get behind a player because of his nationality. Take Henman for example, if he wasn't British I'd probably dislike him quite a lot. But since he's British I have a bit of a soft spot for him and want him to win all the time (unless he faces Rafa).


Yes, indeed. Pat "sorry mate" Rafter charmed even more. I miss him. He played a magnificent game and always kept a sensible perspective on fame and celebrity.

spottygoose
03-13-2005, 10:22 PM
I'm Aussie and not that fond of Hewitt at all. Alot of people here don't like him and I think it is because his behaviour and attitude is actually very much like that stereotypical "American Sportstar" behaviour that irks many people. It is interesting to note that on his fansite there are almost equal numbers of americans and aussies that support him. I think he is a jerk and I think if he was American you guys would love him and most of us would still think he was a Wanker.

Asmus
03-13-2005, 10:38 PM
I agree with spottygoose. I noticed even during the Aussie final this year that many fans seemed to be a bit turned off by Hewitt's antics and even gave Safin quite a bit of support, whereas you never would have seen that with Rafter.

GermanBoy
03-13-2005, 10:40 PM
JustIncredible, you will get a good rep next time I can because of your cool Jen avatar... ;)

bad gambler
03-13-2005, 10:41 PM
I agree with spottygoose. I noticed even during the Aussie final this year that many fans seemed to be a bit turned off by Hewitt's antics and even gave Safin quite a bit of support, whereas you never would have seen that with Rafter.


you obviously were not there

Kristen
03-13-2005, 10:44 PM
I'm pretty sure you guys know he disgusts me.
Sure, he has an awesome talent and that's great. Off court I'm sure he's a nice enough guy. He's (tennis) great for the country, whatever. But I don't appreciate his on court behaviour/attitude. You can do what you have to do to win your matches, but there's a line...and he crosses it :-/

spottygoose
03-14-2005, 12:04 AM
you obviously were not there


It's true, alot of people were put off by his carry-on that day. Safin is also very popular in Australia and many people were happy for him to win. I stopped cheering for LLeyton once his antics started and I never thought I would do that against an Aussie in a Final!

fangirl
03-14-2005, 12:26 AM
I am Australian and I can not stand Lleyton Hewitt as a player - and I only like seeing him do well because he is Australian because yeah,. us Aussies are known for blind patriotism.

Hopefully now he will jsut get whipped around his famewhore fiances little finger and she will push him to sing a lame duet with him and they will go to number 1 in Kazakstan* or somewhere and we will never have to see him play tennis again. Except for Davis Cup because we need him. I can admit that.

*No offense directed at anyone in Kazakstan.

erik-the-red
03-14-2005, 01:18 AM
I'm a naturalized Aussie, so I do have some nationalism behind my liking of Hewitt.

But, I like his competitive spirit. I don't think he ever tanks matches. He always gives 100%. And, it's not like he's a bad sport. He doesn't take ten minute bathroom breaks, no offense to Roddick, though.

spottygoose
03-14-2005, 01:40 AM
I'm a naturalized Aussie, so I do have some nationalism behind my liking of Hewitt.

But, I like his competitive spirit. I don't think he ever tanks matches. He always gives 100%. And, it's not like he's a bad sport. He doesn't take ten minute bathroom breaks, no offense to Roddick, though.


I agree. I really admire some of his qualities - the fact that he never quits, is very patriotic and that he isn't a bad sport. In fact, I think he has some awesome qualities and in interviews you get a sense that he really could be quite a "good bloke".

The thing that lets him down is that he can be hot-tempered when in intense situations and although he may not intend to be rude the fact is pure and simple he is rude.

Some of the things that have come out of his mouth and the choice of some of his words when dealing with linespeople in particular are just thoughtless and childish. It is these things that have made people dislike him and he just doesn't learn. The whole racist thing was a non-issue as i am sure this was a misunderstanding but to use the word spastic and pointing & threatening at a linesman is just ridiculous.

He needs to grow up. Unfortunately, with his parents hanging around all the time he will probably never get decent advisors. Shame as i think his public persona is quite different to who he really is.

Smankyou
03-14-2005, 01:52 AM
and she will push him to sing a lame duet with him and they will go to number 1 in Kazakstan
All the best songs go to number 1 in Kazakhstan. ;)

I bet Tammin Sursomething's did.

nkhera1
03-14-2005, 01:56 AM
If he was American, I would probably stick up for him (somehow though i'm not quite sure how) and support him

Kristen
03-14-2005, 01:56 AM
I think I have a severe misunderstanding of the difference between bad behaviour and bad sportsmanship!?

Or is it different for Lleyton. He's so immersed in his own shot-making, and winning the game that he often forgets he's screaming after an opponents UE? ;) :retard:

euroka1
03-14-2005, 02:17 AM
I agree. I really admire some of his qualities - the fact that he never quits, is very patriotic and that he isn't a bad sport. In fact, I think he has some awesome qualities and in interviews you get a sense that he really could be quite a "good bloke".

The thing that lets him down is that he can be hot-tempered when in intense situations and although he may not intend to be rude the fact is pure and simple he is rude.

Some of the things that have come out of his mouth and the choice of some of his words when dealing with linespeople in particular are just thoughtless and childish. It is these things that have made people dislike him and he just doesn't learn. The whole racist thing was a non-issue as i am sure this was a misunderstanding but to use the word spastic and pointing & threatening at a linesman is just ridiculous.

He needs to grow up. Unfortunately, with his parents hanging around all the time he will probably never get decent advisors. Shame as i think his public persona is quite different to who he really is.

Sane and sensible comment. Thanks.

Arcadion
03-14-2005, 03:07 AM
If Lleyton was American and acted exactly the same way, there is no doubt he'd get more abuse on here than Roddick.

spottygoose
03-14-2005, 03:16 AM
I think I have a severe misunderstanding of the difference between bad behaviour and bad sportsmanship!?

Or is it different for Lleyton. He's so immersed in his own shot-making, and winning the game that he often forgets he's screaming after an opponents UE? ;) :retard:


I think the cheering on UE issue is just a beat up and is just that people already despise him so much for the other stuff that they turn this into something sinister. Personally I see it as nothing more than him being so intense when playing that he gets revved up by the score not so much the UE. Plenty of people do it, in all forms of sport. He is revving himself up thats all. It's the mouthing off that is uncouth and unnecessary but lets not make issues where there are none - leave that to the media.

Kristen
03-14-2005, 03:20 AM
I must have imagined it.

Peta Pan
03-14-2005, 03:48 AM
Yeah me too.... I don't need no media to beat anything up for me I see it with my own eyes. Never liked the guy since he played his first match at 14.

I'm Aussie, I can't stand him... no blind patriotism here!!!

JeLuliA88
03-14-2005, 04:24 AM
I'm from Australia and i pretty much hate him... i don't like his attitude, and the media hype surrounding him is really annoying. He just seems really bad tempered and rude, especially when things don't go his way.

Prizeidiot
03-14-2005, 04:30 AM
Yep... I'm an Aussie and I don't like the guy

There was a poll on our current affair shows, in regards to Hewitt's behaviour. It was something like 60% said he's fine, 40% said he was bad. So yeah, even 40% of his own country doesn't like him too much. (I'm assuming the poll was accurate)

spottygoose
03-14-2005, 05:41 AM
I must have imagined it.


We are all entitled to an opinion. Mine is that I don't believe he disrespects his opponents. Linespeople, umpire, etc well thats a different story. I don't like him either i am just saying that I don't think he is an all-round 100% bad guy. Maybe I am just more able to be objective on the subject of LL.

Becarina
03-14-2005, 05:44 AM
Im not aussie, but I don' think he is that bad. It is just something that pumps him up and if it annoys others then so be it, because they do their own things also...just my opinion :)

Smankyou
03-14-2005, 05:46 AM
If he were American and still had the same sense of humour and fighting spirit... then yes, I would still like him.

FanOfHewitt
03-14-2005, 06:22 AM
Being Aussie probably makes me like him that little bit more but its not the principal reason why I like him. (There are plenty of Aussie players I don't like, Philippoussis and Rafter being two of them).

More than anything I just admire Hewitt for the way he wills himself to victory. I always like 'fighters' in no matter what sport I follow and he just personifies the spirit of fighting against the odds and triumphing better than near any sportsman I have had the pleasure of watching.

To have such a hunger for victory means that he is obviously going to carry a demonic spirit, but like I have said before, I forgive him everything for the way he fights. It is heroic and sublime and I think in particular the Australian people who dislike him for his on court antics are being petty and they should look to what he represents as a competitor over the way he screams or gets irritated at linespeople.

We are priveleged to have such a passionate competitor and we should just appreciate the way he goes about it because it may be a long while before we see another one like him.

gsm
03-14-2005, 07:36 AM
i love the guy!!!

cant get enough of his spunk , nothin like having someone fight to the point of extreme.

i dont care that he is aussie and wouldnt care if he were any other nationality.

those of you that are not australian are in no position to assume what we aussies think.

i have no time for pedantics , what the sport needs is gritty fighters like hewitt.

i could go on , but already have heaps in other threads.

keep up the great work lleyton , keep ruffling the feathers of these tight arse fruit cakes.

Ferrero Forever
03-14-2005, 07:47 AM
If Lleyton Hewitt were not Australian, and say, American, would you like him?

It seems like the majority of his fans are Aussies, and their blind love for him is mostly due to national pride, not necessarily because they enjoy his game, attitude, etc.

I may be wrong, however. Please speak truthfully.
I'm an Aussie and I totally hate him. I'll admit that his game is great, that he deserves to be where he is, but his attitude sucks. Of course he does some great things, like i remember when he heard about a little kid who bought the wrong kind of ticket and lleyton was playing on Rod Laver, and lleyton gave him that chance to meet him, he got vip treatment. I thought that was really sweet, but for every good thing he does there seems to be 10 bad things his said, his on court antics annoy the hell out of me, i just really don't like him. As most MTF posters would know I'm very non-patriotic, i cheer for the spaniards, and i don't have any spanish background whatsoever. Tennis is an individual sport, (unless referring to Davis Cup), it has nothing to do with countries. Thats just my two cents.

lizabeth..*
03-14-2005, 07:50 AM
I'm Aussie and not that fond of Hewitt at all. Alot of people here don't like him and I think it is because his behaviour and attitude is actually very much like that stereotypical "American Sportstar" behaviour that irks many people. It is interesting to note that on his fansite there are almost equal numbers of americans and aussies that support him. I think he is a jerk and I think if he was American you guys would love him and most of us would still think he was a Wanker.

Ohh yes. Love it.

Action Jackson
03-14-2005, 07:51 AM
I know plenty of Aussies that don't like him and that doesn't mean they are unpatriotic. He divides people and would do the same no matter what nationality, but if he was American, then he would cop more crap than he does already, some of it is bought on himself, yes the word is some and not all.

FanOfHewitt
03-14-2005, 08:04 AM
I get the feeing he wouldn't divide fans in a country like Argentina the way he would in a country like America, England or Australia.

I think the latter countries tend to be much more critical of their own sportspeople.

Just an impression I get, got no real evidence to back it up though.

Ferrero Forever
03-14-2005, 08:06 AM
well if i lived in spain i would have no reason to be critical of them, because they're so fantastic. It's not our fault that the people we have here suck.

Action Jackson
03-14-2005, 08:07 AM
I get the feeing he wouldn't divide fans in a country like Argentina the way he would in a country like America, England or Australia.

They are probably harsher in Argentina than in many places. If you don't think they harsh on their sportspeople, you must not be aware of the absolute crap that Gaudio got after the DC in Malaga, that was as bad as anything Hewitt ever got.

FanOfHewitt
03-14-2005, 08:13 AM
They are probably harsher in Argentina than in many places. If you don't think they harsh on their sportspeople, you must not be aware of the absolute crap that Gaudio got after the DC in Malaga, that was as bad as anything Hewitt ever got.

Ok, you have a point, but could you really see them turning on someone so lion-hearted and patriotic as Lleyton Hewitt? I think he'd get heaps of love in Argentina.

Action Jackson
03-14-2005, 08:18 AM
Ok, you have a point, but could you really see them turning on someone so lion-hearted and patriotic as Lleyton Hewitt? I think he'd get heaps of love in Argentina.

Yes, you don't have to be loved in your own country. I mean Clerc was always treated poorly compared to Vilas. They do it in France, give it to their own players, so don't give me this shit about he'd get treated differently, he has that personality that divides people and that is universal.

FanOfHewitt
03-14-2005, 08:46 AM
Yes, you don't have to be loved in your own country. I mean Clerc was always treated poorly compared to Vilas. They do it in France, give it to their own players, so don't give me this shit about he'd get treated differently, he has that personality that divides people and that is universal.

I haven't heard of many cases of people getting treated badly in South America because they yell vamos or tell off lines people. For having no cujones sure, but never for being fiesty and passionate.

I may be wrong, as I said, it's just a feeling I have, with not much evidence to back it up.

Auscon
03-14-2005, 08:52 AM
I'm not patriotic to the point that I like all Aussie players

I think the fact that Im patriotic gives me the reason to at least give more thought to his oncourt actions, well, at least the on court pumpups, as opposed to someone who would automatically dismiss them as having the purpose of putting off his opponents, and being based on some level of disrespect for his opponents.

IMO, when he yells cmon on an opponents UE, he's not celebrating the fact that they screwed up, but rather, he's pumping himself up for what he did to get the last shot into play, or get the ball into play in the first place

Ultimately though, its his style of play that makes me a fan...being an Aussie is just a bonus. If he was one of these big servers, and just blasted people off court, I wouldnt be as much of a fan, but because he doesnt have the weapons, but instead has a huge amount of fight and determination, and leaves it all out on court, he's one of the best players in the world to watch.

As for the yelling at line judges, despite him being my fav player, I definitely dont agree with it, but when he gets so fired up on court, I dont think he can help it. And with his oncourt demeaner getting him this far in the sport, I doubt he's going to try and tone down anything

Jackie
03-14-2005, 09:10 AM
...The whole racist thing was a non-issue as i am sure this was a misunderstanding but to use the word spastic and pointing & threatening at a linesman is just ridiculous.

He needs to grow up. Unfortunately, with his parents hanging around all the time he will probably never get decent advisors. Shame as i think his public persona is quite different to who he really is.

How are the events of many years ago evidence that he needs to grow up now? There are many people who still judge Hewitt by his behaviour when he was 17 [and let's face it, 98% of boys that age are little arseholes]...as for the original question, there is something very human about the way Lleyton shows emotion and is uninhibited by what people may think. I would still like him regardless of his race

SomL.
03-14-2005, 09:40 AM
I'm Thai not Aussie but I love Lleyton so much and I will love Lleyton for good.

Action Jackson
03-14-2005, 09:44 AM
I haven't heard of many cases of people getting treated badly in South America because they yell vamos or tell off lines people. For having no cujones sure, but never for being fiesty and passionate.


Trying to change the meaning to suit your own arguments. It's irrelevant as to why he is disliked in some quarters, but the facts are he is as disliked as he his liked in most countries in the tennis world. He is more appreciated by Americans in some ways it seems.

There are many fans globally who don't like Hewitt and not because of his nationality.

Ferrero Forever
03-14-2005, 09:48 AM
i reckon when it comes down to it, patriotism is involved to a certain extent, but since tennis is mainly an individual sport, it's whether you like the players or not. For example, i like most of the argentines, but then you got chela and after that spitting incident i got turned off for life. If it was a spaniard who did the same thing, i wouldn't be a fan of them

FanOfHewitt
03-14-2005, 10:22 AM
Trying to change the meaning to suit your own arguments. It's irrelevant as to why he is disliked in some quarters, but the facts are he is as disliked as he his liked in most countries in the tennis world. He is more appreciated by Americans in some ways it seems.

There are many fans globally who don't like Hewitt and not because of his nationality.

So do you think there would be as much equivocation about Hewitt in Argentina, Chile or Spain if he was from those parts?

You think half the people there would be more concerned with the fact that he screams when his opponents make unforced errors or that he treats linespeople badly over the fact that he is a warrior, fights to the death and is passionately patriotic? Personally, I can't see it.

I think he would be a national hero in those countries with only some minority voices bagging him.

I can't see it being a 50/50 or 60/40 split as it probably is in Australia.

Jackie
03-14-2005, 10:27 AM
My experience with people who seriously hate Hewitt [not just those who think he's a tosser] is that most of them don't, or only casually follow tennis, so all they know is the controversy. The good things about Hewitt are not as likely to sell newspapers, so they are not as well publicised. Did anyone else notice that Hewitt's name was rarely mentioned in relation to the charity match? I only knew he was going to play because an article said ALL of the top 10 were going to be there...and the only time his name was mentioned after the match was to give him crap about being on the same court as Kim

Action Jackson
03-14-2005, 10:33 AM
So do you think there would be as much equivocation about Hewitt in Argentina, Chile or Spain if he was from those parts?

I am really surprised by you actually. I thought as a Hewitt fan you'd be used to this sort of stuff and not let it bother you

Newsflash, he is not popular with Argentines, Chileans or Spaniards. This is not just because of his nationality. I do happen to have quite a few associates from this region in a sporting context, most of them whose opinions I respect. It's generally the same thing, he is a great player and he is respected, but he is a total prick. It's not that surprising actually. Yes, he would still be a prick if he was from their country, but still respected.

You really don't want to acknowledge this do you?

Jackie
03-14-2005, 10:38 AM
I am really surprised by you actually. I thought as a Hewitt fan you'd be used to this sort of stuff and not let it bother you

Newsflash, he is not popular with Argentines, Chileans or Spaniards. This is not just because of his nationality. I do happen to have quite a few associates from this region in a sporting context, most of them whose opinions I respect. It's generally the same thing, he is a great player and he is respected, but he is a total prick. It's not that surprising actually. Yes, he would still be a prick if he was from their country, but still respected.

You really don't want to acknowledge this do you?
There are some Spaniards, Chileans and Argentines who are not popular here too and that has nothing to do with race

FanOfHewitt
03-14-2005, 10:41 AM
I am really surprised by you actually. I thought as a Hewitt fan you'd be used to this sort of stuff and not let it bother you

Newsflash, he is not popular with Argentines, Chileans or Spaniards. This is not just because of his nationality. I do happen to have quite a few associates from this region in a sporting context, most of them whose opinions I respect. It's generally the same thing, he is a great player and he is respected, but he is a total prick. It's not that surprising actually. Yes, he would still be a prick if he was from their country, but still respected.

You really don't want to acknowledge this do you?

lol, just to hazard a guess, you think his unpopularity in those regions has anything to do with him putting beatdowns on all their players and doing it in a confronting way?

I'm not saying that Hewitt is liked in these countries, I'm saying IF he was an Argentinian for instance, wouldn't he be adored by Argentinians?

I think he would. Despite him being an arrogant prick, despite him yelling at opponents mistakes, despite him telling off unsuspecting linespeople.

I don't think i'm making an extraordinary claim to say that they would love him in places like Argentina if he was Argentinian. If you think they would be divided on him just the same since he's a prick, then ok, but I'll have to disagree.

Action Jackson
03-14-2005, 10:43 AM
There are some Spaniards, Chileans and Argentines who are not popular here too and that has nothing to do with race

Exactly right, that is not an issue. A prick is a prick no matter where from.

Jackie
03-14-2005, 10:44 AM
lol, just to hazard a guess, you think his unpopularity in those regions has anything to do with him putting beatdowns on all their players and doing it in a confronting way?

I'm not saying that Hewitt is liked in these countries, I'm saying IF he was an Argentinian for instance, wouldn't he be adored by Argentinians?

I think he would. Despite him being an arrogant prick, despite him yelling at opponents mistakes, despite him telling off unsuspecting linespeople.

I don't think i'm making an extraordinary claim to say that they would love him in places like Argentina if he was Argentinian. If you think they would be divided on him just the same since he's a prick, then ok, but I'll have to disagree.

There is a certain Spanish former player who was an absolute prick [makes Hewitt look like a saint]. I didn't hear otherwise, so I assume he was well liked over there

Jackie
03-14-2005, 10:45 AM
Exactly right, that is not an issue. A prick is a prick no matter where from.

I think the real issue is what do you think makes someone a "prick"?

Smankyou
03-14-2005, 10:46 AM
Exactly right, that is not an issue. A prick is a prick no matter where from.
And even that is subjective.

Action Jackson
03-14-2005, 10:51 AM
lol, just to hazard a guess, you think his unpopularity in those regions has anything to do with him putting beatdowns on all their players and doing it in a confronting way?

Are you CmonAussie's sister? I miss that poster in the biggest way and that is geniune.

No, since when do Moya, Costa, Ferrero, act like total tools on the court, well Corretja doesn't usually, but Hewitt bought it out of him. See you are trying to use results to justify your point of view, when they have little or no relevance to the original point you were trying to make.

I'm not saying that Hewitt is liked in these countries, I'm saying IF he was an Argentinian for instance, wouldn't he be adored by Argentinians?

Maradona adored by Argentines, because the majority of the population can identify with him. They couldn't for a guy like Hewitt mainly because of his background.

There are plenty of very good and outstanding footballers there and they'll never be adored the same way. In a tennis sense that works with Vilas as well, so the answer is no.

I don't think i'm making an extraordinary claim to say that they would love him in places like Argentina if he was Argentinian. If you think they would be divided on him just the same since he's a prick, then ok, but I'll have to disagree.

He is not one or ever will be one, so it is irrelevant. I gave reasons as to why he'll never be adored even if he was one. Yes, I use examples and not just theories without examples. In Chile Gonzalez is more popular with people than Massu, why is that, it' s because Gonzo's personality, even though it was Massu that got the gold medal.

Action Jackson
03-14-2005, 10:53 AM
I think the real issue is what do you think makes someone a "prick"?

Doesn't that depend on the individual?

If you think abusing officials when they make a correct call is good behaviour, then all the power to you. It doesn't make a player any more interesting if they do that.

Jackie
03-14-2005, 10:56 AM
Doesn't that depend on the individual?

If you think abusing officials when they make a correct call is good behaviour, then all the power to you. It doesn't make a player any more interesting if they do that.

I admit that I was cringing when I saw that, but sometimes people do things that they regret when they are under pressure

Jackie
03-14-2005, 10:59 AM
Maradona adored by Argentines, because the majority of the population can identify with him. They couldn't for a guy like Hewitt mainly because of his background.


I'm sure there are many obsessive Crows fans in Adelaide and stereotypical "aussie blokes" who identify with Hewitt

Action Jackson
03-14-2005, 10:59 AM
I admit that I was cringing when I saw that, but sometimes people do things that they regret when they are under pressure

This is the thing that many people don't get. I actually don't have a problem with Hewitt off court too much, sure he lacks a bit of tact, but it gives the sportsmedia something to talk about and that sells more papers.

On the court he does what it takes to win and some of the time he oversteps the mark. Don't go around making excuses for him, he was stupid and got what he deserved in that final.

Action Jackson
03-14-2005, 11:00 AM
I'm sure there are many obsessive Crows fans in Adelaide and stereotypical "aussie blokes" who identify with Hewitt

Just as many in Adelaide think he is a wanker. I'm sorry that doesn't even compare Adelaide is not the nation or even a microcosm of Australia.

Jackie
03-14-2005, 11:01 AM
This is the thing that many people don't get. I actually don't have a problem with Hewitt off court too much, sure he lacks a bit of tact, but it gives the sportsmedia something to talk about and that sells more papers.

On the court he does what it takes to win and some of the time he oversteps the mark. Don't go around making excuses for him, he was stupid and got what he deserved in that final.

Who said I was making excuses? I said I was cringing. If I hated a player for every isolated incedent that I disagreed with, I would never be able to watch tennis

Action Jackson
03-14-2005, 11:03 AM
Who said I was making excuses? I said I was cringing. If I hated a player for every isolated incedent that I disagreed with, I would never be able to watch tennis

Lleyton has form in this regard and it's not an isolated incident sadly.

Jackie
03-14-2005, 11:05 AM
Just as many in Adelaide think he is a wanker. I'm sorry that doesn't even compare Adelaide is not the nation or even a microcosm of Australia.

Firstly, you just offended a fuckload of people. I think the capital city of a state [particularly when you consider that we only have 6 of them] counts for more than a "microcosm". Secondly, when I have visited Adelaide, I have not heard a bad word about Hewitt. Everyone seemed to be very supportive of him.

Jackie
03-14-2005, 11:06 AM
Lleyton has form in this regard and it's not an isolated incident sadly.
This is the only one in quite a few years

Action Jackson
03-14-2005, 11:11 AM
Firstly, you just offended a fuckload of people. I think the capital city of a state [particularly when you consider that we only have 6 of them] counts for more than a "microcosm". Secondly, when I have visited Adelaide, I have not heard a bad word about Hewitt. Everyone seemed to be very supportive of him.

How have I offended a whole lot of people? Considering I am very familiar with Australian geography I do know where Adelaide is and it's one of the most conservative places in the country.


Ok, so do you practice selective hearing and listening? When he played at the tournament in Adelaide and played Dejan Petrovic a fellow South Australian and the crowd supported Dejan. He had a go at them for their ignorance and no that is not a made up quote, so that comment alone shows that not everyone in Adelaide supports him.

Well there are many Port Adelaide fans that don't like him either and they by rights the majority of them would live in South Australia.

I mean Sydney and Melbourne are more representative of what Australia has become, though the rural areas are more representative of what it was like, it's a combo of the two.

Jackie
03-14-2005, 11:17 AM
How have I offended a whole lot of people? Considering I am very familiar with Australian geography I do know where Adelaide is and it's one of the most conservative places in the country.


Ok, so do you practice selective hearing and listening? When he played at the tournament in Adelaide and played Dejan Petrovic a fellow South Australian and the crowd supported Dejan. He had a go at them for their ignorance and no that is not a made up quote, so that comment alone shows that not everyone in Adelaide supports him.

Well there are many Port Adelaide fans that don't like him either and they by rights the majority of them would live in South Australia.

I mean Sydney and Melbourne are more representative of what Australia has become, though the rural areas are more representative of what it was like, it's a combo of the two.

That match was a long time ago. The Adelaide people recognise that he has grown up A LOT since then...and what Port fans don't like Hewitt? He has close friends who are Port fans...and how are Sydney and Melbourne more representative of what Australia has become? Not only are they very different places, but as long as the majority of voters in majority of states rule is part of our constitution, SA is just as important politically as VIC or NSW

Jackie
03-14-2005, 11:18 AM
...and you offended people by implying that their city is not an important part of this country

FanOfHewitt
03-14-2005, 11:20 AM
Are you CmonAussie's sister? I miss that poster in the biggest way and that is geniune.

No, but I miss him too and wish he would make a reappearance.



No, since when do Moya, Costa, Ferrero, act like total tools on the court, well Corretja doesn't usually, but Hewitt bought it out of him. See you are trying to use results to justify your point of view, when they have little or no relevance to the original point you were trying to make.

How about Nadal? How about Coria?

I'm trying to use results to justify my point of view? Well all other things being equal people usually like a winner, so it usually adds to someone's appeal if they are succesful.

No relevance to the original point I was trying to make? I started off saying that countiries like Australia, England, America tend to be more critical of their sportspeople than do other countries. I said this with an eye to Hewitt, who is concerned with this thread.

You then pointed out that sometimes people in non-western countries like Argentina are just as critical of their sportspeople if not more so.

And in certain respects I agree. If you put in a half arsed performance in Davis Cup they'll probably crucify you in Argentina.

But in so far as issues like screaming on opponents unforced errors and yelling at linespeople are concerned, I can't see people in certain nations being worked up about these issues as much as certain others are.

Personally, I think countries like Australia are more mindful of political correctness and are more petty with certain issues than other countries are and that would explain to me why Hewitt has so much hatred lauched at him in Australia.

I'd probably also say, though its controversial, that other non-western countries are more patriotic than countries like Australia are and are more willing to overlook things when their own sportspeople are involved.


Maradona adored by Argentines, because the majority of the population can identify with him. They couldn't for a guy like Hewitt mainly because of his background.

There are plenty of very good and outstanding footballers there and they'll never be adored the same way. In a tennis sense that works with Vilas as well, so the answer is no.

LOL, put a bit of imagination into it mate. Next you'll tell me that they wouldn't identify with Hewitt becuase he'd still be patriotic towards Australia. Obviously they aren't going to identify with a true blue Aussie battler. IF Hewitt was born and raised in Argentinia, they would identify with him because he is passionate, patriotic, battles like a warrior and never gives in.

Oh and it's good that you brought up Maradonna. Has the earth ever graced us with a more conceited prick? Yet they love him like nobodies business in Argentina.


He is not one or ever will be one, so it is irrelevant. I gave reasons as to why he'll never be adored even if he was one. Yes, I use examples and not just theories without examples. In Chile Gonzalez is more popular with people than Massu, why is that, it' s because Gonzo's personality, even though it was Massu that got the gold medal.

You think they wouldn't identify with a guy who fights like his life depends on it, a guy for who nothing comes easy, a guy who is passionate as anything, loves his country and has a great davis cup record for it?

Well I beg to differ.

Jackie
03-14-2005, 11:33 AM
A bit off topic, but what is the opinion of Chela in Argentina after the spitting incident?

FanOfHewitt
03-14-2005, 11:36 AM
A bit off topic, but what is the opinion of Chela in Argentina after the spitting incident?

I'd also be interested to know this. I'd be willing to bet that the majority opinion would have been "it was wrong but hewitt deserved it and it was bound to happen sometime or other"

Jackie
03-14-2005, 11:37 AM
That's what I suspect too...anyway, I will have to wait until tomorrow to find out. Goodnight

FanOfHewitt
03-14-2005, 11:38 AM
That's what I suspect too...anyway, I will have to wait until tomorrow to find out. Goodnight

Night.

Action Jackson
03-14-2005, 11:40 AM
No, but I miss him too and wish he would make a reappearance.

One of the best ever posters.

How about Nadal? How about Coria?

What about Nadal and Coria?

I'm trying to use results to justify my point of view? Well all other things being equal people usually like a winner, so it usually adds to someone's appeal if they are succesful.

People can respect winners without liking them. It happens a lot and will continue to do so. Bottom line Hewitt doesn't care what people think of him, so why not take heed from his example.

No relevance to the original point I was trying to make? I started off saying that countiries like Australia, England, America tend to be more critical of their sportspeople than do other countries. I said this with an eye to Hewitt, who is concerned with this thread.

That is because you only concern yourself with the English-speaking world.

You then pointed out that sometimes people in non-western countries like Argentina are just as critical of their sportspeople if not more so.

Ok, if that is the case, why do some of the more rabid elements stone players cars and do other stupid things like that threaten them if they don't perform up to standard. Yes, that does happen in other nations where they don't speak English as a first language, that is compelling enough to say they are hard on their players when the results aren't coming.

But in so far as issues like screaming on opponents unforced errors and yelling at linespeople are concerned, I can't see people in certain nations being worked up about these issues as much as certain others are.

Why do you think that is the sole issue? It's not just that and never only been that, it's a combination of everything together, keep the tunnel vision.

Personally, I think countries like Australia are more mindful of political correctness and are more petty with certain issues than other countries are and that would explain to me why Hewitt has so much hatred lauched at him in Australia.

How about the fact that he followed Pat Rafter that in addition to his on-court antics and this fact that there is the old school mentality when it comes to tennis in Australia.

LOL, put a bit of imagination into it mate. Next you'll tell me that they wouldn't identify with Hewitt becuase he'd still be patriotic towards Australia.

Are you going out of your way to make me laugh or something? He will never be anything but an Australian.

Obviously they aren't going to identify with a true blue Aussie battler. IF Hewitt was born and raised in Argentinia, they would identify with him because he is passionate, patriotic, battles like a warrior and never gives in.

If he was in Argentina, then he'd more than likely be a rich kid playing a snob sport. Then again you don't know that these particular qualities would the same, respective environment does influence people differently or do you think that is crap as well.


Oh and it's good that you brought up Maradonna. Has the earth ever graced us with a more conceited prick? Yet they love him like nobodies business in Argentina.

Success can do things, well when a street kid becomes one of the greatest in his chosen field where the vast majority of people who are in that particular environment, wouldn't that lead to higher adulation than some rich or upper middle class kid who had the advantages to start with initially. Talk about missing the obvious.

You think they wouldn't identify with a guy who fights like his life depends on it, a guy for who nothing comes easy, a guy who is passionate as anything, loves his country and has a great davis cup record for it?

He is not one of them, and never will be. It's just like I said before, it's easy to like the results, but not like the person.

Action Jackson
03-14-2005, 11:43 AM
A bit off topic, but what is the opinion of Chela in Argentina after the spitting incident?

Is Hewitt a racist? The answer is no. Chela shouldn't have spat, well not at least in Hewitt's direction. That's the thing in some places spitting is very poor form and in others that's not the case.

Disclaimer: No, I am not saying that Chela should have spat at Hewitt.

Action Jackson
03-14-2005, 11:49 AM
This is the only one in quite a few years

That's the thing, not many people forget the past acts. The spastic call and the alleged racist incident never will be forgotten whether Hewitt fans like it or not, and these things stick in people's mind.

Angle Queen
03-14-2005, 12:02 PM
If Lleyton Hewitt were not Australian, and say, American, would you like him?Sorry guys, if I'm a little late to the discussion.

I believe us Americans have a love-hate relationship with our "bad boy" sport (and otherwise) personalities. Hewitt would likely fall in that category. Either we'd love him or hate him with very little in between. He's certainly not a Henman...in the sense that...I gather few Britons actually hate him...they may just not like him.

And to answer the question specifically...I am an American and I am a Hewitt fan. I would love to have him on our DC team.

(Does that sound a bit like a confession one would make at an AA meeting? :lol: )

FanOfHewitt
03-14-2005, 12:08 PM
One of the best ever posters.
Indeed.


What about Nadal and Coria?
They can be tools on court, but are still liked in their homelands. You mention players that aren't tools. I'll mention some that are.


People can respect winners without liking them. It happens a lot and will continue to do so. Bottom line Hewitt doesn't care what people think of him, so why not take heed from his example.

Well it doesn't stop half the people here from bagging him (even though he doesn't care) so I guess it can't hurt if I defend him (even though he doesn't care).


That is because you only concern yourself with the English-speaking world.

I was thinking more specifically in regards to Hewitt's case and the nagging about screaming obnoxiously on court and yelling at officials when I made that statement about what goes on in English speaking countries. I couldn't picture that as being reasons to hate a bloke in other countries as easily as it catches on in countries like Australia.



Ok, if that is the case, why do some of the more rabid elements stone players cars and do other stupid things like that threaten them if they don't perform up to standard. Yes, that does happen in other nations where they don't speak English as a first language, that is compelling enough to say they are hard on their players when the results aren't coming.

All true, but I think that since Hewitt gets more out of himself than just about anyone it would be hard to see them have such a wild reaction against him when he fails. He very rarely gives insipid performances or anything less than 100 percent.


Why do you think that is the sole issue? It's not just that and never only been that, it's a combination of everything together, keep the tunnel vision.

What else is there really? A few unsubstantiated claims like that he is racist? The exaggerated hip and shoulder he gave Nalbandian? Calling the crowd stupid for not supporting him?

Most of the stuff brought up agaisnt him is garbage or very petty.


How about the fact that he followed Pat Rafter that in addition to his on-court antics and this fact that there is the old school mentality when it comes to tennis in Australia.

Pat Rafter's goodness is about as mythologised as Hewitt's badness.


Are you going out of your way to make me laugh or something? He will never be anything but an Australian.

Dead set?



If he was in Argentina, then he'd more than likely be a rich kid playing a snob sport. Then again you don't know that these particular qualities would the same, respective environment does influence people differently or do you think that is crap as well.

If you aren't going to buy into some fixities and some changes for the sake of the hypothetical then let's drop it.


Success can do things, well when a street kid becomes one of the greatest in his chosen field where the vast majority of people who are in that particular environment, wouldn't that lead to higher adulation than some rich or upper middle class kid who had the advantages to start with initially. Talk about missing the obvious.

It would. But I don't see why that would make him more hated than his countrymen if the entire sport (tennis) is littered with rich kids. Not as popular as Maradonna - well who is?



He is not one of them, and never will be. It's just like I said before, it's easy to like the results, but not like the person.

I see we haven't changed each others opinions yet.

Action Jackson
03-14-2005, 12:25 PM
Indeed.

Something even you can't miss.

They can be tools on court, but are still liked in their homelands. You mention players that aren't tools. I'll mention some that are.

Since when has Nadal called someone a spastic or being intimidating to umpires and linespeople? You bought it up and I know you want a response. Coria isn't loved at home I don't think any player is truly loved. He is admired and respected for the tennis and his generosity to family and children, but not the same as loved.

Well it doesn't stop half the people here from bagging him (even though he doesn't care) so I guess it can't hurt if I defend him (even though he doesn't care).

He is in a cocoon and he loves being hated it's obvious, and if you don't believe me or think I am lying look at his DC wins in Barcelona and Florianopolis.

I was thinking more specifically in regards to Hewitt's case and the nagging about screaming obnoxiously on court and yelling at officials when I made that statement about what goes on in English speaking countries. I couldn't picture that as being reasons to hate a bloke in other countries as easily as it catches on in countries like Australia.

There are Germans who don't like Becker and Austrians that don't like Muster for whatever reason. Well he isn't loved in France and I suppose I'm making that up as well.

All true, but I think that since Hewitt gets more out of himself than just about anyone it would be hard to see them have such a wild reaction against him when he fails. He very rarely gives insipid performances or anything less than 100 percent.

Why are you missing the point? Respected doesn't mean the same as loved.

What else is there really? A few unsubstantiated claims like that he is racist? The exaggerated hip and shoulder he gave Nalbandian? Calling the crowd stupid for not supporting him?

Calling Egli a spastic so I suppose that's cool as well, and he's killing the guy and has the gall to have a go at them for supporting the kid, yeah that's great stuff. If he is going to get pissed off at least make it worthwhile, yes the stupid pre-match interview is reason enough.

Pat Rafter's goodness is about as mythologised as Hewitt's badness.

I have seen enough evidence to make up my own mind.

If you aren't going to buy into some fixities and some changes for the sake of the hypothetical then let's drop it.

Shouldn't have been bought up in the first place. If the argument was solid enough it wouldn't have needed hypotheticals, that being said if you want to bring them I have the right to counter them.

It would. But I don't see why that would make him more hated than his countrymen if the entire sport (tennis) is littered with rich kids. Not as popular as Maradonna - well who is?

If you are arsehole to a lot of people you'll be disliked and that is universal and it doesn't matter how good you are. Maradona is liked for his football ability and that's it, but different sport and a different dynamic since you bought the hypotheticals.

You missed the Vilas reference then?

I see we haven't changed each others opinions yet.

What with? You got have to some substance behind the claims, though I think if Hewitt committed a murder, the DNA, forensics, everything had him there at the scene and caught on all camera, you'd say he was framed.

FanOfHewitt
03-14-2005, 12:56 PM
Since when has Nadal called someone a spastic or being intimidating to umpires and linespeople? You bought it up and I know you want a response. Coria isn't loved at home I don't think any player is truly loved. He is admired and respected for the tennis and his generosity to family and children, but not the same as loved.

Nadal goes off like a two bob watch and questions umpires plenty.

And ok, Coria isn't loved, but is admired and respected. What we are really talking about is who is liked and who is disliked. Talking about the extent of that like and whether it constitutes love is a point and of no interest really.

Call it admiration and respect, call it liking or call it loving, we know what we are getting at. Hewitt doesn't have much respect (definitelty not as a person anyway) from many people in Australia, or admiration and so he isn't 'liked' by many.



He is in a cocoon and he loves being hated it's obvious, and if you don't believe me or think I am lying look at his DC wins in Barcelona and Florianopolis.
Yep.


There are Germans who don't like Becker and Austrians that don't like Muster for whatever reason. Well he isn't loved in France and I suppose I'm making that up as well.

Do half the Germans not like Becker and half the Austrians not like Muster? I'm sure you could find people in Argentina that don't like Maradona as well.



Why are you missing the point? Respected doesn't mean the same as loved.


As far as I'm concerned respect is a sort of love, in a restricted form. but anyway the point is that hewitt gets neither respect nor love from much of the Australian public. They respect his achievements, not him though.


Calling Egli a spastic so I suppose that's cool as well, and he's killing the guy and has the gall to have a go at them for supporting the kid, yeah that's great stuff. If he is going to get pissed off at least make it worthwhile, yes the stupid pre-match interview is reason enough.

Calling Egli a spastic was wrong. Somehow I forgive him. I have hardly met a teenager who hasn't used the term at some point in conversation. Doesn't mean they are all anti-disabled people anymore than calling someone a dickhead makes you anti people with heads the shape of penises.

It was a wrong thing to say and he has learnt from it and does heaps of charity work with disabled kids but that doesn't mean a thing.


I have seen enough evidence to make up my own mind.


'Sorry mate' just doesn't do it for me.

Shouldn't have been bought up in the first place. If the argument was solid enough it wouldn't have needed hypotheticals, that being said if you want to bring them I have the right to counter them.

If you think hypotheticals are useless then you are very naive.

You are free to counter them, and also free to offer hypotheticals of your own in order to eschew the one I offered, as you did.


If you are arsehole to a lot of people you'll be disliked and that is universal and it doesn't matter how good you are. Maradona is liked for his football ability and that's it, but different sport and a different dynamic since you bought the hypotheticals.

An arsehole is an arsehole in anybodies language I agree, but in some places people exaggerate someone's arseholishness to the point where it becomes a mockery.


You missed the Vilas reference then?

The Vilas example was good, but i would wager good money that if Clerc was the one with the grandslams and Vilas the one without them, that he wouldn't have such an inferior perception in the public compared to Vilas.


What with? You got have to some substance behind the claims, though I think if Hewitt committed a murder, the DNA, forensics, everything had him there at the scene and caught on all camera, you'd say he was framed.

Picking out a few isolated incidents over years together with screaming on court and questioning line calls isn't enough to discourage me, especially when you consider all the good points about Lleyton, which to me, far outweigh the negatives.

Socket
03-14-2005, 12:58 PM
i love the guy!!!

cant get enough of his spunk , nothin like having someone fight to the point of extreme.

i dont care that he is aussie and wouldnt care if he were any other nationality.

those of you that are not australian are in no position to assume what we aussies think.

i have no time for pedantics , what the sport needs is gritty fighters like hewitt.

i could go on , but already have heaps in other threads.

keep up the great work lleyton , keep ruffling the feathers of these tight arse fruit cakes.
:yeah:

Action Jackson
03-14-2005, 01:09 PM
Nadal goes off like a two bob watch and questions umpires plenty.

So you are fluent in Catalan and Spanish as well ?

And ok, Coria isn't loved, but is admired and respected. What we are really talking about is who is liked and who is disliked. Talking about the extent of that like and whether it constitutes love is a point and of no interest really.

Why did you bring it up, if it wasn't of any interest then?

Call it admiration and respect, call it liking or call it loving, we know what we are getting at. Hewitt doesn't have much respect (definitelty not as a person anyway) from many people in Australia, or admiration and so he isn't 'liked' by many.

Most reasonable people respect his achievements, doesn't mean they have to like the guy. The concept isn't that hard to understand.

Do half the Germans not like Becker and half the Austrians not like Muster? I'm sure you could find people in Argentina that don't like Maradona as well.

But those two never had the whole nation love them like Maradona. Simple equation tennis is a niche sport and not number 1 sport in any country it's played in, even the one where it's popular.


As far as I'm concerned respect is a sort of love, in a restricted form.

Consider it what you want. I don't love people just because I can respect some of them, it's an easy line to seperate.

Calling Egli a spastic was wrong. Somehow I forgive him. I have hardly met a teenager who hasn't used the term at some point in conversation. Doesn't mean they are all anti-disabled people anymore than calling someone a dickhead makes you anti people with heads the shape of penises.

Yes, it's good can I call you a spastic and an imbecilic moron from now on? Just making sure I am setting the boundaries of what is acceptable.


It was a wrong thing to say and he has learnt from it and does heaps of charity work with disabled kids but that doesn't mean a thing.

PR.

'Sorry mate' just doesn't do it for me.

You never answered the murder question.

If you think hypotheticals are useless then you are very naive.

You are free to counter them, and also free to offer hypotheticals of your own in order to eschew the one I offered, as you did.

Yes, I am naive that is one of your best so far. I don't like using them when there isn't a need, but since you are special I made an exception.

An arsehole is an arsehole in anybodies language I agree, but in some places people exaggerate someone's arseholishness to the point where it becomes a mockery.

Not the point, if they're an arsehole they get the treatment when it's deserved.

The Vilas example was good, but i would wager good money that if Clerc was the one with the grandslams and Vilas the one without them, that he wouldn't have such an inferior perception in the public compared to Vilas.

Incorrect. Vilas and Clerc were totally different personalities and weren't that friendly. Vilas was the popular one and still is the most popular one in Argentina end of story and it wasn't just cause of the Slams.

Picking out a few isolated incidents over years together with screaming on court and questioning line calls isn't enough to discourage me, especially when you consider all the good points about Lleyton, which to me, far outweigh the negatives

Is there a need for you to justify being a Hewitt fan? You don't have to do that or should. Don't just be a blind apologist because people don't share those views.

Socket
03-14-2005, 01:11 PM
I know plenty of Aussies that don't like him and that doesn't mean they are unpatriotic. He divides people and would do the same no matter what nationality, but if he was American, then he would cop more crap than he does already, some of it is bought on himself, yes the word is some and not all.
Lleyton comes closest than any other player of being the modern Jimmy Connors, and Jimbo had a love-hate relationship with American fans. Even when they felt compelled to complain about his antics, they still adored his fighting spirit and his rebellious nature. I have no doubt that Lleyton would receive the same treatment. Most of the American tennis fans I know do like him, and especially his Jimbo-like attitude on the court.

And let's face it, Lleyton is Mother Theresa compared to Jimmy. Most of you are too young to remember him parading around the court with his racquet between his leg, rubbing it suggestively. And in Connors's most famous match -- which is regularly replayed at the US Open every rain delay -- he called the chair umpire an "abortion." A couple of loud "c'mon's" just don't compare.

Action Jackson
03-14-2005, 01:13 PM
Socket, don't start me on Jimmy Connors the A grade arse clown that is another seperate thread should be dedicated to his achievements and not just tennis either.

Socket
03-14-2005, 01:14 PM
I'm not patriotic to the point that I like all Aussie players

I think the fact that Im patriotic gives me the reason to at least give more thought to his oncourt actions, well, at least the on court pumpups, as opposed to someone who would automatically dismiss them as having the purpose of putting off his opponents, and being based on some level of disrespect for his opponents.

IMO, when he yells cmon on an opponents UE, he's not celebrating the fact that they screwed up, but rather, he's pumping himself up for what he did to get the last shot into play, or get the ball into play in the first place

Ultimately though, its his style of play that makes me a fan...being an Aussie is just a bonus. If he was one of these big servers, and just blasted people off court, I wouldnt be as much of a fan, but because he doesnt have the weapons, but instead has a huge amount of fight and determination, and leaves it all out on court, he's one of the best players in the world to watch.

As for the yelling at line judges, despite him being my fav player, I definitely dont agree with it, but when he gets so fired up on court, I dont think he can help it. And with his oncourt demeaner getting him this far in the sport, I doubt he's going to try and tone down anything
That's correct. Lleyton is simply celebrating the fact that he's at BP or saved a BP or whatever. I understand what he's doing and frankly, except for a few grumps on the tour, I think the other players do, too.

Socket
03-14-2005, 01:27 PM
I have always suspected the only reason that Argentinian/Chilean/Spanish/Brazilian (whatever) fans don't like Lleyton is because he doesn't play under their flag. Players from these countries have a history of being demonstrative on court, and being appreciated for it.

As for Chela, I'm going to guess that most people will "tsk, tsk" out loud, because it's not right to support spitting, but privately, think the whole incident was as entertaining as hell. Which it was, you have to admit.

Socket
03-14-2005, 01:29 PM
Socket, don't start me on Jimmy Connors the A grade arse clown that is another seperate thread should be dedicated to his achievements and not just tennis either.
OK, I won't get you started. ;) Anyway, there just aren't enough of the old-school types around here to have a decent discussion about Connors. I'll bet there aren't a half dozen posters here who have seen in him play in person.

Action Jackson
03-14-2005, 01:30 PM
I have always suspected the only reason that Argentinian/Chilean/Spanish/Brazilian (whatever) fans don't like Lleyton is because he doesn't play under their flag. Players from these countries have a history of being demonstrative on court, and being appreciated for it.


Corretja, Mantilla, Costa, Moya and Ferrero are demonstrative on court, at least you didnt say all of them.

Action Jackson
03-14-2005, 01:31 PM
OK, I won't get you started. ;) Anyway, there just aren't enough of the old-school types around here to have a decent discussion about Connors. I'll bet there aren't a half dozen posters here who have seen in him play in person.

Connors is the type of bloke who needed to be punched in the locker room. Hewitt tends to leave his agro on court that' s the difference.

FanOfHewitt
03-14-2005, 01:31 PM
So you are fluent in Catalan and Spanish as well ?

Do I need to be to know that he questions umpires with line calls? I take it he's not asking the blokes over for tea at his house when the match is done.

Why did you bring it up, if it wasn't of any interest then?

I said originally Coria is 'liked' despite acting like a tool. You then said Coria isn't loved.


Most reasonable people respect his achievements, doesn't mean they have to like the guy. The concept isn't that hard to understand.

No it doesn't mean they have to. But I still think that he would be more liked in some areas rather than others (such as in certain countries if he was born and bred there) which is what i have been contending.


But those two never had the whole nation love them like Maradona. Simple equation tennis is a niche sport and not number 1 sport in any country it's played in, even the one where it's popular.

No one is unequivocally liked no matter what sport it is. And even in sports like tennis there are players who are liked by the majority of people, especially in certain countries and those that aren't. I think the majority of people would like Hewitt in certain countries if he was born and bred there. Unlike the situation in Australia where he has divided the nation.


Consider it what you want. I don't love people just because I can respect some of them, it's an easy line to seperate.

You love, or like some aspect about them I think.



Yes, it's good can I call you a spastic and an imbecilic moron from now on? Just making sure I am setting the boundaries of what is acceptable.

If you did it once in the heat of the moment I could get over it. If you do it repeatedly then you are a wanker. Thems the boundaries.




PR.


I could say every players' behaviour is PR.


You never answered the murder question.

I wouldn't jump to conclusions and hang Hewitt.



Yes, I am naive that is one of your best so far. I don't like using them when there isn't a need, but since you are special I made an exception.
Ahuh.


Not the point, if they're an arsehole they get the treatment when it's deserved.
Not necessarily. There are plenty of examples of sportspeople who are arseholes but are well liked in certain quarters, like in their homeland.


Incorrect. Vilas and Clerc were totally different personalities and weren't that friendly. Vilas was the popular one and still is the most popular one in Argentina end of story and it wasn't just cause of the Slams.

I find it very hard to believe that Vilas would have been respected like he is if their Slam results were reversed, but suit yourself.


Is there a need for you to justify being a Hewitt fan? You don't have to do that or should. Don't just be a blind apologist because people don't share those views.

I'm not saying everyone should like him. I've never contended that. As i've said throughout this thread, i think he would be more liked in certain places other than Australia if he was born in those places.

I still don't think this is an outlandish claim and I still believe it.

Auscon
03-14-2005, 01:32 PM
As for Chela, I'm going to guess that most people will "tsk, tsk" out loud, because it's not right to support spitting, but privately, think the whole incident was as entertaining as hell. Which it was, you have to admit.

sure was :)

Experimentee
03-14-2005, 01:35 PM
Most of the Aussies I know who like him say they do because he's Aussie. They would be casual fans who hardly ever follow tennis but just follow the Aussies.
A lot of Aussies I know cant stand him too. That includes everyone from people with ethnic backgrounds to stereotypical Aussie footy bogans. Personally I cant stand him, but I've never been one to follow someone because of nationality. Definitely Hewitt would be even less popular here if he wasnt Australian, considering the number of people who hate him as it is.

Action Jackson
03-14-2005, 01:47 PM
Do I need to be to know that he questions umpires with line calls? I take it he's not asking the blokes over for tea over at his house when the match is done.

You admit you don't have a clue to what he is actually saying then? He could be talking to himself. I am just taking your apologist line here.


I said originally Coria is 'liked' despite acting like a tool. You then said Coria isn't loved.

Yawn, since when are respected and liked are mutually the same thing? Never heard of someone being respected for their work in their field and not liked as a personality, it's not as rare as you think.

No it doesn't mean they have to. But i still think that he would be more liked in some areas rather than others which is what i have been contending.

With what proof? Are you an expert in the field of international sporting relations now?

No one is unequivocally liked no matter what sport it is. And when even in sports like tennis there are players who are liked by the majority of people, especially in certain countries and those that aren't. I think the majority of people would like Hewitt in certain countries if he was born and bred there. Unlike the situation in Australia.

You haven't even come close to convincing me with anything. In fact you actually you almost make me want to dislike Hewitt. For the record he isn't a fave, but there are many other players that I dislike him.

Don't go on with this grass is greener rubbish, there are plenty of countries who are harsh on their sportspeople and it's not just Australia.


You love, or like some aspect about them I think.

I can seperate my personal feelings when dealing with individuals


If you did it once in the heat of the moment I could get over it. If you do it repeatedly then you are a wanker. Thems the boundaries.

Is that right?


I could say every players' behaviour is PR.

Why publicise it then? The ones who publicise have something to prove, when it shouldn't be.


I wouldn't jump to conclusions and hang Hewitt.

Just like the apologist I took you for. Everything had him in the frame, no tampering with evidence, forensics, DNA, caught on CCTV cameras, the case was watertight, you would find him innocent, thought so.


Not necessarily. There are plenty of examples of sportspeople who are arseholes but are well liked in certain quarters, like in their homeland.

What with sponsors or general population? What's more important?


I find it very hard to believe that Vilas would have been respected like he is if their Slam results were reversed, but suit yourself.

You always suit yourself with these arguments. Vilas was more marketable, he had the looks, personality and was the first one through who was successful in his homeland so naturally he was going to be the leader, or is that one too hard to comprehend.

I'm not saying everyone should like him. I've never contended that. As i've said throughout this thread, i think he would be more liked in certain places other than Australia if he was born in those places.

You are clutching at straws, trying to make him out to be better than he is and he'd be appreciated more elsewhere. It was flimsy when you first said it and it's even more so now. Watch the French Open and you'll see how loved he is in France, as I said other countries would like the results, but not the man necessarily.

Action Jackson
03-14-2005, 01:48 PM
sure was :)

It sold papers.

FanOfHewitt
03-14-2005, 02:08 PM
Fark I'm gettign sick of this......

You admit you don't have a clue to what he is actually saying then? He could be talking to himself. I am just taking your apologist line here.

Yes he could be talking to himself, and the umpire could be talking to himself too, and they could just coincidentally be looking at each other and talking in turns, and doint it after a ball was hit close to the line.



Yawn, since when are respected and liked are mutually the same thing? Never heard of someone being respected for their work in their field and not liked as a personality, it's not as rare as you think.

If someone said 'i respect the work he does in his field' and someone else said 'i like the work he does in his field' i would take it to mean the same thing.



With what proof? Are you an expert in the field of international sporting relations now?

So you need a doctorate in the area to have an opinion on it now? I have given my reasons earlier in the thread and can't be farked bringing them up again. You are welcome to go through them again.



You haven't even come close to convincing me with anything. In fact you actually you almost make me want to dislike Hewitt. For the record he isn't a fave, but there are many other players that I dislike him.

Don't go on with this grass is greener rubbish, there are plenty of countries who are harsh on their sportspeople and it's not just Australia.

I admitted they were. But I think they can be harsh for somewhat different reasons. Like i've said, i find it hard to believe that if hewitt was Argentinian they would give a crap in the slightest that he yells on unforced errors or gives linespeople grief or has let fly with a few comments that were out of line.


I can seperate my personal feelings when dealing with individuals
That's nice to know.

Is that right?

Yes that's right.



Why publicise it then? The ones who publicise have something to prove, when it shouldn't be.

Shit dude what doesn't get publicised nowadays?



Just like the apologist I took you for. Everything had him in the frame, no tampering with evidence, forensics, DNA, caught on CCTV cameras, the case was watertight, you would find him innocent, thought so.

lol, if there is reason to question the crime then i'll question it.


What with sponsors or general population? What's more important?

I was meanign with general population, i take it to be more important than what sponsors think.


You always suit yourself with these arguments. Vilas was more marketable, he had the looks, personality and was the first one through who was successful in his homeland so naturally he was going to be the leader, or is that one too hard to comprehend.

Vilas might have been more naturally likeable, I never disputed that, I just think that his success contributed to his appeal. Is that so hard to comprehend? is it that unheard of? Success contributing to appeal? Is it ia new concept?



You are clutching at straws, trying to make him out to be better than he is and he'd be appreciated more elsewhere. It was flimsy when you first said it and it's even more so now. Watch the French Open and you'll see how loved he is in France, as I said other countries would like the results, but not the man necessarily.

I stick to the claim that he would be more appreciated in certain countries if he was born and bred there.

I've already gone through the argumentation for it and that can speak for itself.

It basically comes down to me thinking certain other nations are somewhat more patriotic and are more willing to overlook certain petty incidents than countries like Australia are.

Not to mention that Hewitt's passionate, street fighter attitude would be appreciated in certain countries where the majority of the population are battlers and could identify with the way he struggles.

Action Jackson
03-14-2005, 02:23 PM
Fark I'm gettign sick of this......

This has ceased to be fun and you are arguing for the sake of arguing.

Yes he could be talking to himself, and the umpire could be talking to himself too, and they could just coincidentally be looking at each other and talking in turns, and doint it after a ball was hit close to the line.

Says one that always has a ready made excuse for Hewitt's foibles.


If someone said 'i respect the work he does in his field' and someone else said 'i like the work he does in his field' i would take it to mean the same thing.

Your choice. Here is something ? Have you ever worked with someone who is a dickhead, but good at their job? Yes, the same principle applies here, you can respect what they have done, doesn't mean you like the individual and how does that mean the same thing.


So you need a doctorate in the area to have an opinion on it now? I have given my reasons earlier in the thread and can't be farked bringing them up again. You are welcome to go through them again.

No need to when they were already countered.

I admitted they were. But I think they can be harsh for somewhat different reasons. Like i've said, i find it hard to believe that if hewitt was Argentinian they would give a crap in the slightest that he yells on unforced errors or gives linespeople grief or has let fly with a few comments that were out of line.

Flog the dead horse. Just for you, they can like the results, but not the guy and you are basing this one criteria to suit your point while forgetting everything else.

Shit dude what doesn't get publicised nowadays?

There are quite a few sportspeople who do stuff for charity that doesn't get publicised and there are good reasons for that.

lol, if there is reason to question the crime then i'll question it.

Just like the apologist I think you are.

Vilas might have been more naturally likeable, I never disputed that, I just think that his success contributed to his appeal. Is that so hard to comprehend? is it that unheard of? Success contributing to appeal? Is it ia new concept?

You understanding a basic concept is a new concept. Why didn't I mention the results initially, rain is wet, do you I have to mention that.

There was no need they spoke for themselves when it came to Vilas and the fact that he is the inspiration for tennis in Argentina is a given, it wasn't just the results that contributed to this, it was a total combination, but being a Hewitt fan you always have to bring results into it to as a defence mechanism, when the points lack in other areas.

Well Hewitt's not and stop whining about the fact that Australia lacks patriotism. Some people like Hewitt and others don't, get over it. It's not that big a deal and it happens in other sporting nations as well. or do you want a 20 000 word research paper on it.

You think he'd be a hero in other nations when there is no way that could be proven.

I see you have forgotten the product of your environment theory and the circumstances would be different, that's why your hypothetical is crap and you in reality have the blinkers on.

Why are still bothering with this?

TennisLurker
03-14-2005, 02:46 PM
You then pointed out that sometimes people in non-western countries like Argentina are just as critical of their sportspeople if not more so


Non western? :confused:

I thought we lived in the Americas, spoke a european language and were christians.
:rolleyes:

Action Jackson
03-14-2005, 02:53 PM
Non western? :confused:

I thought we lived in the Americas, spoke a european language and were christians.
:rolleyes:

I actually said non-English language speaking countries.

Speak an Indo-European language, Roman Catholic the main religion. The 9th largest country in the world by area.

TennisLurker
03-14-2005, 02:57 PM
Yes, but Fan of Hewitt said non western

:P

Action Jackson
03-14-2005, 03:00 PM
Yes, but Fan of Hewitt said non western

:P

True, I am glad you picked that up as I was having a hard time going through the apologist's monologue.

Action Jackson
03-14-2005, 03:03 PM
:wavey: Fan of Hewitt

I can't be bothered with the monologues for now. What is it you were trying to convince me of and not being very successfull at?

FanOfHewitt
03-14-2005, 03:08 PM
This has ceased to be fun and you are arguing for the sake of arguing.

I'm arguing becuase i'm trying to make some basic points which are continually being contested.




Says one that always has a ready made excuse for Hewitt's foibles.
When people make mountains out of molehills about a player you like it seems natural enough to try and defend them I reckon.



Your choice. Here is something ? Have you ever worked with someone who is a dickhead, but good at their job? Yes, the same principle applies here, you can respect what they have done, doesn't mean you like the individual and how does that mean the same thing.

I'm fine with that. But in certain contexts like and respect can be used interchangeably. As I previously showed.



No need to when they were already countered.

Countered, but not necessarily defeated. I stll hold to my claim.



Flog the dead horse. Just for you, they can like the results, but not the guy and you are basing this one criteria to suit your point while forgetting everything else.

Yes they can like the results and not the guy, I get the point, but you say that as if it would be a given for Hewitt no matter where he was born and bred. I don't think it would for the reasons I've given.


There are quite a few sportspeople who do stuff for charity that doesn't get publicised and there are good reasons for that.

If it doesn't get publicised then how do you know they do it?


Just like the apologist I think you are.

And just like you, someone who is critical of Hewitt, being quick to spring on him. Or are you making some claim to objectivity that I'm not privy to on this issue?


You understanding a basic concept is a new concept. Why didn't I mention the results initially, rain is wet, do you I have to mention that.

There was no need they spoke for themselves when it came to Vilas and the fact that he is the inspiration for tennis in Argentina is a given, it wasn't just the results that contributed to this, it was a total combination, but being a Hewitt fan you always have to bring results into it to as a defence mechanism, when the points lack in other areas.

Yes it was a combination, the results being a major part of it as far as i'm concerned. I don't see how thinking that results contribute to someone's popularity can be construed as a 'defense mechanism'.


Well Hewitt's not and stop whining about the fact that Australia lacks patriotism. Some people like Hewitt and others don't, get over it. It's not that big a deal and it happens in other sporting nations as well. or do you want a 20 000 word research paper on it.

This only turned into a whine when you flatout refused my points as bullcrap about a speculative issue. It pissed me off, so i decided to hang with it, and obviously so did you, and here we are many tedious, time wasting, pointless, hours later.


You think he'd be a hero in other nations when there is no way that could be proven.

So is there a way that it can be disproven? Why are we arguing then?

I see you have forgotten the product of your environment theory and the circumstances would be different, that's why your hypothetical is crap and you in reality have the blinkers on.

And you seem to have forgotten that I said that we should drop this if you weren't prepared to accept the fixity of some points and the change of others in order for the hypothetical to go through (e.g. Hewitt maintains his obnoxiousness, his fighting spirit, his results, but changing nationality, changes the language he speaks etc).

Why are still bothering with this?
We shouldn't be.

star
03-14-2005, 03:09 PM
If Lleyton Hewitt were not Australian, and say, American, would you like him?

It seems like the majority of his fans are Aussies, and their blind love for him is mostly due to national pride, not necessarily because they enjoy his game, attitude, etc.

I may be wrong, however. Please speak truthfully.

I'm not Aussie and I love Lleyton. :)

I think he's great. I love his intensity on the court and I like what I've seen of him off the court too. He's not perfect , and he makes mistakes, but lots of the top players have flaws and shortcomings. I love his fighting spirit. I guess his two runs to the year end number one ranking.... esp. in Shanghai, are two of my favorite memories in tennis.

So it's not national pride with me. In fact, I dont' really see tennis as being something for national pride. I'm not proud that any player is an American. You know, my national feelings don't really come into play that much in sport except when an American wins in skiing or something like that. :D

FanOfHewitt
03-14-2005, 03:14 PM
Yes, but Fan of Hewitt said non western

:P

Well spotted. lol

Well they aren't western in the purest form, but you can definitely argue that they are western in certain key respects.

FanOfHewitt
03-14-2005, 03:15 PM
:wavey: Fan of Hewitt

I can't be bothered with the monologues for now. What is it you were trying to convince me of and not being very successfull at?

How about we pick the topic up again say in a hundred years time if we're still alive?

star
03-14-2005, 03:23 PM
OK, I won't get you started. ;) Anyway, there just aren't enough of the old-school types around here to have a decent discussion about Connors. I'll bet there aren't a half dozen posters here who have seen in him play in person.

I think it's you and me, babe. :lol:

Anybody who is a Universtity student now surely hasn't seen Connors career unfold, or else they've overstayed their welcome at school. ;)

Socket
03-14-2005, 03:32 PM
I think it's you and me, babe. :lol:

Anybody who is a Universtity student now surely hasn't seen Connors career unfold, or else they've overstayed their welcome at school. ;)
We need more old farts like us on the board. We're considerably less excitable than the young 'uns. :D

star
03-14-2005, 03:41 PM
I wonder what today's kids would have to say if they could have seen some of Nastase's antics. Anyway, everyone gets overly riled up about the players on court behavior and mainly it's only to justify their already formed opinions. Rarely does anyone strike a player off their favorites list when he does something obnoxious on the court. It's only when a player posters already don't like does something obnoxious that they complain, and then the posters who like that player defend. It just goes on round and round.

Like Moya last night said a filthy filthy thing on the court and had a big argument with the umpire too. It's ok. He was upset. I'm not offended. But my word, had Hewitt done this, imagine what GWH might have had to say. :lol: :lol:

star
03-14-2005, 03:43 PM
Oh, and just in case GWH is concerned about my language skills, I was with someone from South America who was more than happy to confirm my initial thought of what Moya said and to report that it was just about the worst curse there was in Spanish. :lol:

Socket
03-14-2005, 03:46 PM
I wonder what today's kids would have to say if they could have seen some of Nastase's antics. Anyway, everyone gets overly riled up about the players on court behavior and mainly it's only to justify their already formed opinions. Rarely does anyone strike a player off their favorites list when he does something obnoxious on the court. It's only when a player posters already don't like does something obnoxious that they complain, and then the posters who like that player defend. It just goes on round and round.

Like Moya last night said a filthy filthy thing on the court and had a big argument with the umpire too. It's ok. He was upset. I'm not offended. But my word, had Hewitt done this, imagine what GWH might have had to say. :lol: :lol:
Stop making so much sense, you'll get banned! :) :)

Socket
03-14-2005, 03:47 PM
Oh, and just in case GWH is concerned about my language skills, I was with someone from South America who was more than happy to confirm my initial thought of what Moya said and to report that it was just about the worst curse there was in Spanish. :lol:
You mean . . . I can hardly type out the words . . . Moya actually called somebody . . a serve & volleyer?????

OMG! :eek: :eek: :eek:

star
03-14-2005, 04:01 PM
:haha: :haha: :haha:

No -- It was "grass court player"

;)

Turkeyballs Paco
03-14-2005, 06:53 PM
Sorry to be coming in on this so late, and I'll admit I didn't read most of the responses, but I can't resist putting in my 2cents - I'm American and I'll admit I really don't care for some of the top US players -- I like Fish pretty well, but that's it. I guess it's mainly because that's really all you get to see in the US generally, except for finals -- just the US players. You get tired of all of the hype they get here because even if they are pretty good, there's a lot of others you would rather be watching. Most American tennis fans probably don't think like me, though. I'm just saying, maybe it's the same for Aussies. Maybe they see too much of Hewitt when they want to see or hear about someone else.

I mean, Roddick can get pissy and it really turns me off to see it, but if Hewitt does something, it's cool. Maybe Hewitt just carries it off better? I don't know.

I really don't care if there are lots of people who hate Hewitt on MTF. He doesn't care what people think, and I think that's cool. I really don't see why people get that worked up over a tennis player anyway, making sweeping judgments about people based on a tiny bit of what they know, but whatever. I don't hate any players, even Roddick or Agassi. They are not my faves but I don't care that much. I mean, if you think Hewitt is a prick, I hope you realize most tennis players at the top level are probably pretty damn full of themselves. Maybe some of them are more careful when talking to the press but it doesn't mean they are great because they haven't said something politically incorrect - that you know about.

Socket
03-14-2005, 10:29 PM
Well put, alexandria.

:worship:

spottygoose
03-15-2005, 12:06 AM
How are the events of many years ago evidence that he needs to grow up now? There are many people who still judge Hewitt by his behaviour when he was 17 [and let's face it, 98% of boys that age are little arseholes]...as for the original question, there is something very human about the way Lleyton shows emotion and is uninhibited by what people may think. I would still like him regardless of his race


I was disgusted by his antics towards the linesman in THIS YEARS Aussie Open. Yep he still needs to grow up. Getting engaged so early is another example .... but that is a whole other can of worms!! :D

spottygoose
03-15-2005, 12:24 AM
And to answer the question specifically...I am an American and I am a Hewitt fan. I would love to have him on our DC team.

(Does that sound a bit like a confession one would make at an AA meeting? :lol: )[/QUOTE]


YES!! LOL :D

willie
03-15-2005, 01:02 AM
the question could be the other way around, if you arent from usa, france, spain, russia, argentina, etc, you are australian wouldnt you be a hewitt fan??
in my case yes cause he shows he loves and gives all for his country, that isnt the same with some players of other countries.

Smankyou
03-15-2005, 01:43 AM
I'm just sorry I missed all the action last night.

Action Jackson
03-15-2005, 02:31 AM
How about we pick the topic up again say in a hundred years time if we're still alive?

For sure I am all for that solution. Walking sticks, dentures it'll still be going on.

Action Jackson
03-15-2005, 02:38 AM
You mean . . . I can hardly type out the words . . . Moya actually called somebody . . a serve & volleyer?????

OMG! :eek: :eek: :eek:

One of your best posts.

Action Jackson
03-15-2005, 03:01 AM
Good to see this old tactic is still alive and well. Example ooh Moya cursed on court, so that is used to justify to make Hewitt look better in this regard, ah all players do it at some point. Yes, even Edberg swore and cursed on court more than once, so what does that actually prove? The argument other players do it as well, doesn't make him any better.

It's subjective as to where the line is drawn, but Hewitt has plenty of form for his on-court shenanigans for it to irritate some fans irrespective of nationality. Some like him and some don't. Why do Hewitt fans feel the need to defend everything he does on court, accept his imperfections, but is there a need to justify everything the whole time?

Yes, it's ok to call fans stupid cause they don't support you, no he was only young excuse doesn't wash.

Ferrero Forever
03-15-2005, 05:00 AM
Sorry to get off the discussion, but exactly what did Moya do, and was it directed at Ferrero. Someone please fill me in

Kristen
03-15-2005, 05:18 AM
Don't worry about going off topic ;)
It's turned into an LH justification thread.

star
03-15-2005, 06:16 AM
I thought that's what the thread was for. :)

Don't worry Juanquilover. Moya would never be nasty to Juan Carlos. At least, I don't think so. He was just mad about something and said a very nasty thing really loud so I heard it sitting three rows from the court. Also he was mad about a call and had quite a discussion with the umpire about it and kept talking to the umpire on the change over.

I didn't think it was bad and it didn't upset me. But, since Moya was one of the people mentioned as being faultless, it seemed timely to bring it up. All players have their moments of not being so perfect. I've even seen Guga not be perfect and seen him lose his temper too. It's just that if you hate a player already, then these things are simply more grist for the mill, but if you like the player, you shrug it off. And I'm not pointing fingers, I do it too. If I really don't like a player, everything about the player irritates me from the way the player walks to the way they wait for the serve to the way they sit in their chair during the change over. :lol: :lol:

It's just that I'll admit it, and not pretend to be objective like some of the better-than-thou posters in these parts. :)

Jackie
03-15-2005, 11:23 AM
So you are fluent in Catalan and Spanish as well ?


I know this was not directed at me, but it's not hard for an English speaking person to pick up on what is going on in most European languages without speaking it fluently. There will always be a few words or expressions that you understand in each sentance.

Jackie
03-15-2005, 11:38 AM
I was disgusted by his antics towards the linesman in THIS YEARS Aussie Open. Yep he still needs to grow up. Getting engaged so early is another example .... but that is a whole other can of worms!! :D

Yes, it is a whole different can of worms...but it gave us some entertainment and didn't kill anyone, so let's leave that to another thread....as for the linesman thing, it is my understanding that he did later apologise. This doesn't excuse his actions, but it does show that it was an emotional reaction in the heat of the moment rather than deliberately being an arsehole

Jackie
03-15-2005, 11:43 AM
It's subjective as to where the line is drawn, but Hewitt has plenty of form for his on-court shenanigans for it to irritate some fans irrespective of nationality. Some like him and some don't. Why do Hewitt fans feel the need to defend everything he does on court, accept his imperfections, but is there a need to justify everything the whole time?

Yes, it's ok to call fans stupid cause they don't support you, no he was only young excuse doesn't wash.

I don't defend everything he does. The point I was trying to get across in this thread is that people dislike the person Hewitt was, not the person he is now. I don't hold grudges. Obviously many people here do

Kristen
03-15-2005, 11:51 AM
His behaviour has evolved over time, but still doesn't tickle my fancy :shrug:

switz
03-15-2005, 12:13 PM
most australians don't like the way hewitt performs but they admire his fighting spirit and the way he represents australia in davis cup etc.

i'm australian, i cannot stand. him i tried on numerous occasions to put my feelings aside and support him because i am a relatively patriotic person, but i just can't find. i want him to lose every time he plays - even in davis cup now.

it's more his off court attitude that drives me up the wall because i can forgive on court because it's part of the game and he's doing what he feels he needs to do to win. but he always plays the victim and there is always someone to blame when he gets in trouble i just think he has absolutely no class beyond his tennis ability.

i blame his parents more than him because clearly they have raised him to be a spoilt brat who thinks the whole world's against.

and if he was not australian i would might like him more now because frankly i find him an embarassing ambassador for my country despite the fact that he is an amazing tennis player.

spottygoose
03-15-2005, 11:16 PM
Yes, it is a whole different can of worms...but it gave us some entertainment and didn't kill anyone, so let's leave that to another thread....as for the linesman thing, it is my understanding that he did later apologise. This doesn't excuse his actions, but it does show that it was an emotional reaction in the heat of the moment rather than deliberately being an arsehole



You had stated earlier that we should all back off because his bad behaviour was in the past. I was simply responding that I had been turned off by his behaviour this year. Before that I tried to make excuses for him. I am incredibly patriotic and will always cheer for an aussie (usually it;s easy as our sportspeople don;t tend to be unlikeable or arrogant). However, this years Aussie Open I started out cheering madly for LL but after his continuing carry-on I just couldn't do it anymore. In my heart I found I really just wanted the more deserving human being to win. Marat's a good guy so after feeling a little let down it really wasn't all that hard to switch allegience. Still, I hope I don't have to do it again. I love cheering for the Aussies.

spottygoose
03-15-2005, 11:19 PM
I don't defend everything he does. The point I was trying to get across in this thread is that people dislike the person Hewitt was, not the person he is now. I don't hold grudges. Obviously many people here do


Jackie you are quick to label us. We don't hold grudges but you my dear seem to be in a state of denial. ;)

euroka1
03-16-2005, 12:15 AM
Fair go, mates.

Jackie
03-16-2005, 06:38 AM
Jackie you are quick to label us. We don't hold grudges but you my dear seem to be in a state of denial. ;)

Maybe you don't personally, but if you read the earlier pages of both this thread and other Hewitt-related threads in GM, you will see that many people here do hold grudges. Please excuse the generalisation in my earlier post. I was severely sleep deprived

Ferrero Forever
03-16-2005, 06:38 AM
I thought that's what the thread was for. :)

Don't worry Juanquilover. Moya would never be nasty to Juan Carlos. At least, I don't think so. He was just mad about something and said a very nasty thing really loud so I heard it sitting three rows from the court. Also he was mad about a call and had quite a discussion with the umpire about it and kept talking to the umpire on the change over.

I didn't think it was bad and it didn't upset me. But, since Moya was one of the people mentioned as being faultless, it seemed timely to bring it up. All players have their moments of not being so perfect. I've even seen Guga not be perfect and seen him lose his temper too. It's just that if you hate a player already, then these things are simply more grist for the mill, but if you like the player, you shrug it off. And I'm not pointing fingers, I do it too. If I really don't like a player, everything about the player irritates me from the way the player walks to the way they wait for the serve to the way they sit in their chair during the change over. :lol: :lol:

It's just that I'll admit it, and not pretend to be objective like some of the better-than-thou posters in these parts. :)

Thats a relief, Moya can remain one of my favourites then:)

Jackie
03-16-2005, 06:39 AM
...wait, I said MANY in that post. I retract the apology

Action Jackson
03-16-2005, 08:37 AM
It's just that I'll admit it, and not pretend to be objective like some of the better-than-thou posters in these parts. :)

Keep it up sanctimonious one. This is where you show a lack of a clue. Considering Thomas Muster was one of my favourite players and he was one of the biggest arseholes on court and I never condoned his actions, but since the blinkers are on for you I am not surprised you missed it.

Action Jackson
03-16-2005, 08:39 AM
I don't defend everything he does. The point I was trying to get across in this thread is that people dislike the person Hewitt was, not the person he is now. I don't hold grudges. Obviously many people here do

This is the thing, you still are defending it now, by saying he was not the person now as he was then. Yet, a few things have been repeated recently that died down after 2000.

If I was such a hater, then wouldn't I be calling him a racist after that US Open incident, when the truth was it was a media beat-up.