OK..which idiot selected this court for the USA [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

OK..which idiot selected this court for the USA

venusfan
03-06-2005, 10:32 PM
I've been watching the Davis Cup since friday and from point #1 I just cant believe the USA would pick what looks and plays like a freaking claycourt. The USA should have selected a court like the freaking US Open where the balls fly and where Roddick and Agassi can overpower their opponents. This court they playing is so too slow.

Chloe le Bopper
03-06-2005, 10:33 PM
The point was to slow Ancic and Ivan down.

blosson
03-06-2005, 10:35 PM
i think P Mac has chosen the court...

venusfan
03-06-2005, 10:37 PM
Well.. I'm seeing no advantage for the USA. I say go for the super fast court and let Agassi and Roddick play their games.

Saumon
03-06-2005, 10:38 PM
i think P Mac has chosen the court...
does it mean that P Mac is an idiot? :devil:

Chloe le Bopper
03-06-2005, 10:39 PM
Well.. I'm seeing no advantage for the USA. I say go for the super fast court and let Agassi and Roddick play their games.
Considering the form that Ivan was in coming in, I don't think that would have been such a hot idea. You don't want to put either Ivan or Mario on the slick stuff if you don't have too.

On paper, the court selection makes sense :shrug:

Scotso
03-06-2005, 10:40 PM
It really doesn't matter what court they chose as far as everyone but Agassi is concerned. Agassi is by far the best player of these on clay.

But a faster court wouldn't hurt Ljubi or Mario at all. Have you not seen their serves?

federer express
03-06-2005, 10:41 PM
Considering the form that Ivan was in coming in, I don't think that would have been such a hot idea. You don't want to put either Ivan or Mario on the slick stuff if you don't have too.

On paper, the court selection makes sense :shrug:

maybe clay. test ljubicic's legs a bit more. and u would back agasi to win his matches against both those guys on clay

Chloe le Bopper
03-06-2005, 10:45 PM
maybe clay. test ljubicic's legs a bit more. and u would back agasi to win his matches against both those guys on clay
I wouldn't back Andre to beat both of these guys on clay. Ivan and Mario aren't shit on clay themselves, they can actually move on it. Ivan beat Ferrero on clay :shrug: Mario nearly beat Andre on clay years ago :shrug:

federer express
03-06-2005, 10:46 PM
I wouldn't back Andre to beat both of these guys on clay. Ivan and Mario aren't shit on clay themselves, they can actually move on it. Ivan beat Ferrero on clay :shrug:

i'd still back andre to beat them both

tangerine_dream
03-06-2005, 10:47 PM
Never mind the court. I'm all for keeping DC matches out of California from now on. Tennis is obviously not their thing; this crowd is quiet, lame, and boring. :o

Chloe le Bopper
03-06-2005, 10:48 PM
i'd still back andre to beat them both
Even if he did - and I doubt that he would, this is the man who couldn't fight his way through Jerome Haehnel, clay courter extrordinaire at RG last year - clay is Roddick's worst surface. Clay would have made NO sense whatsoever. It would have been absolutely boneheaded to put the Croats on clay.

Scotso
03-06-2005, 10:49 PM
Agassi would be the favorite but he's not hot shit on any surface lately.

He's lost some sparkle.

robinhood
03-06-2005, 10:49 PM
I think they are too lazy to find a clay court in So. Cal....
Also with the Indian Wells being held in a couple of days, is it possible that they were being concerned over choosing the same type of surface also used in Indian Wells? I'm not even sure how fast or slow the court plays over there, but I'm just curious.

federer express
03-06-2005, 10:50 PM
Even if he did - and I doubt that he would, this is the man who couldn't fight his way through Jerome Haehnel, clay courter extrordinaire at RG last year - clay is Roddick's worst surface. Clay would have made NO sense whatsoever. It would have been absolutely boneheaded to put the Croats on clay.

mario and ljubo are both at their worst on clay. takes ljubo's only weapon away from him. think roddick could have got one win against them on it. who knows. but thanks for calling me a bonehead :p

Angle Queen
03-06-2005, 10:50 PM
Considering the form that Ivan was in coming in, I don't think that would have been such a hot idea. You don't want to put either Ivan or Mario on the slick stuff if you don't have too.

On paper, the court selection makes sense :shrug:I think Chloe's right here. Last year in Charleston, they also went with a slow...hard court...and took out Max et. al.

Scotso
03-06-2005, 10:51 PM
mario and ljubo are both at their worst on clay. takes ljubo's only weapon away from him. think roddick could have got one win against them on it. who knows. but thanks for calling me a bonehead :p

And what, pray tell, is Ivan's ONLY weapon? :rolleyes:

robinhood
03-06-2005, 10:52 PM
Never mind the court. I'm all for keeping DC matches out of California from now on. Tennis is obviously not their thing; this crowd is quiet, lame, and boring. :o

I second that. All you hear from the stadium other than the players, the umpire, and the linesmen is Andy Roddick yelling "that's it" and "there you go."

federer express
03-06-2005, 10:53 PM
And what, pray tell, is Ivan's ONLY weapon? :rolleyes:

was going for his serve. not gonna be his movement, volleys, or consistent groundstrokes is it? backhand is good intermittently, but if u take the serve away completely, i would fancy winning a lot of points against him on clay

Scotso
03-06-2005, 10:58 PM
He has a great forehand, and his volleys are better than Roddick's, that's for sure.

federer express
03-06-2005, 10:59 PM
He has a great forehand.

that is a stretch to say the least!

Chloe le Bopper
03-06-2005, 11:00 PM
mario and ljubo are both at their worst on clay. takes ljubo's only weapon away from him. think roddick could have got one win against them on it. who knows. but thanks for calling me a bonehead :p

I don't care if they are at their worst on clay. They aren't so horrible on it that the tie would be an automatic win for the US. Who cares if Andy could have gotten a win in... I doubt that Andre would have won both his matches :shrug:

You are underrating Mario and Ivan on clay. I'm not underrating Andre... I'm merely pointing out the fact that he's old and hasn't done crap on clay in 50 years :p

Chloe le Bopper
03-06-2005, 11:01 PM
was going for his serve. not gonna be his movement, volleys, or consistent groundstrokes is it? backhand is good intermittently, but if u take the serve away completely, i would fancy winning a lot of points against him on clay
Have you see Ivan on clay?! Do not be fooled by the game. Croats defy all logic by having clay legs. Where is Sjengster to explain this when you need him?

federer express
03-06-2005, 11:02 PM
I don't care if they are at their worst on clay. They aren't so horrible on it that the tie would be an automatic win for the US. Who cares if Andy could have gotten a win in... I doubt that Andre would have won both his matches :shrug:

You are underrating Mario and Ivan on clay. I'm not underrating Andre... I'm merely pointing out the fact that he's old and hasn't done crap on clay in 50 years :p

amnot underestimating anyone on clay. just rank andre as the best in those 4 on it. is he too old to do well at the french? probably. the physical toll would be too great. but could he play and win 2 matches in 3 days on it against mario and ljubo? i think he could. and never once said putting it on clay would mean a certain win for the states ;) you'll find chloe dear

federer express
03-06-2005, 11:03 PM
Have you see Ivan on clay?! Do not be fooled by the game. Croats defy all logic by having clay legs. Where is Sjengster to explain this when you need him?

i if was playing him and got money for every point i won against him, i'd pick a clay court :p

Chloe le Bopper
03-06-2005, 11:05 PM
i if was playing him and got money for every point i won against him, i'd pick a clay court :p
Have you seen Ivan on clay? Or Mario?

Leena
03-06-2005, 11:05 PM
This was the perfect court for the US...

They're just not good enough.

Well, at least old age has caught up to Andre... and the Bryans... sigh.

federer express
03-06-2005, 11:05 PM
Have you seen Ivan on clay? Or Mario?

both actually

Chloe le Bopper
03-06-2005, 11:08 PM
amnot underestimating anyone on clay. just rank andre as the best in those 4 on it. is he too old to do well at the french? probably. the physical toll would be too great. but could he play and win 2 matches in 3 days on it against mario and ljubo? i think he could. and never once said putting it on clay would mean a certain win for the states ;) you'll find chloe dear

He couldn't win one match in one day at Roland Garros, so forgive me for not being too excited about his abilities on clay at this point. And that's not even taking into consideration that loss to Zimonjic the week before :scared: Or his getting bagelled by David Ferrer the year before. He did make the RG qf that year, but his draw was not very impressive. He did beat Mario, after an epic choke by Mario :p

Regardless, I don't know where this "ANDRE ROCKS ON CLAY" is coming from at all. This is not 1999-2001.

Chloe le Bopper
03-06-2005, 11:09 PM
both actually
Then I find your break down of their abilities on clay to be extremely absurd :shrug:

Slowish hardcourt was the best idea for this tie. It takes away the croat advantage on the fastest courts and compliments the Americans games, especially Andres. The surface is simply not an excuse here :shrug:

BaselineSmash
03-06-2005, 11:11 PM
Agassi was still great on clay in 2002, but after that not so.

Leena
03-06-2005, 11:11 PM
With Andrew and the Croatians.. the surface choice didn't matter much.

This surface is about as perfect as Agassi could ask for... and he didn't get the job done.

Chloe le Bopper
03-06-2005, 11:11 PM
Agassi was still great on clay in 2002, but after that not so.
Thanks for the correction. 1999-2002 ;)

federer express
03-06-2005, 11:12 PM
again, never said andre rocks on clay. even if he is an old man on a old rocking chair, still think thats more rocking than mario and ivan might be capable of on the surface. yes he has had bad results on it. but he still moves well and still plays well and has more clay pedigree than everyone else in the tie put together. people are writing his obituary prematurely.

Leena
03-06-2005, 11:13 PM
again, never said andre rocks on clay. even if he is an old man on a old rocking chair, still think thats more rocking than mario and ivan might be capable of on the surface. yes he has had bad results on it. but he still moves well and still plays well and has more clay pedigree than everyone else in the tie put together. people are writing his obituary prematurely.
Yes, but what about Andy?

While I don't think he's as awful on clay as well everyone here... it wouldn't be any advantage for him.

federer express
03-06-2005, 11:14 PM
Thanks for the correction. 1999-2002 ;)

so was he french champion, runner-up twice, semi-finalist etc just from 99-02?

Chloe le Bopper
03-06-2005, 11:14 PM
again, never said andre rocks on clay. even if he is an old man on a old rocking chair, still think thats more rocking than mario and ivan might be capable of on the surface. yes he has had bad results on it. but he still moves well and still plays well and has more clay pedigree than everyone else in the tie put together. people are writing his obituary prematurely.
No, I didn't write him off. I've taken into consideration how he performed (according to reports) on Ivan against a court that, from the sounds of it, is fucking tailored to him! Looking at that, and the fact that Ivan still beat him, I find it hard to believe that he would all of a sudden have a gigantic advantage when you slow things down to the point that Andre isn't in his comfort zone either. :shrug:

federer express
03-06-2005, 11:15 PM
Yes, but what about Andy?

While I don't think he's as awful on clay as well everyone here... it wouldn't be any advantage for him.

no wouldn't be an advantage for him. but would andy beating either of those guys on clay be a shock result? i dont think so.

Chloe le Bopper
03-06-2005, 11:15 PM
so was he french champion, runner-up twice, semi-finalist etc just from 99-02?
Obviously I wasn't counting the early 90s, but if you want to pretend those are relevant to the tie too, then yeah :retard:

The point was that time has moved on, and Andre is not what he was on clay. He's not even what he was on rebound ace. That isn't writing him off. It's looking at his results and accepting them for what they are.

federer express
03-06-2005, 11:16 PM
No, I didn't write him off. I've taken into consideration how he performed (according to reports) on Ivan against a court that, from the sounds of it, is fucking tailored to him! Looking at that, and the fact that Ivan still beat him, I find it hard to believe that he would all of a sudden have a gigantic advantage when you slow things down to the point that Andre isn't in his comfort zone either. :shrug:

if it becomes a court that is even slower, where it becomes all about movement, angles and consistency of groundstrokes (and past wins on the surface)...my vote goes to andre over ljubicic. sorry, but just my opinion

Chloe le Bopper
03-06-2005, 11:18 PM
if it becomes a court that is even slower, where it becomes all about movement, angles and consistency of groundstrokes (and past wins on the surface)...my vote goes to andre over ljubicic. sorry, but just my opinion
Past wins on the surface. As in wins from 2000? 2001? 2002? Yeah, those are relevant.

Regardless, the USA putting Croatia on clay would have been beyond stupid, which is why they didn't do it and never will.

End of that discussion :p

federer express
03-06-2005, 11:19 PM
Obviously I wasn't counting the early 90s, but if you want to pretend those are relevant to the tie too, then yeah

i dont think the early 90s are relevant. i dont think 99-02 is all that relevant either. what i do think is relevant is that he is still the best clay courter out of the four, for me

Chloe le Bopper
03-06-2005, 11:20 PM
i dont think the early 90s are relevant. i dont think 99-02 is all that relevant either. what i do think is relevant is that he is still the best clay courter out of the four, for me
Yes, and Coria is the best grasscourter in the world. To me. Because I love him.

I'm glad that this has been productive.

federer express
03-06-2005, 11:21 PM
Yes, and Coria is the best grasscourter in the world. To me. Because I love him.

I'm glad that this has been productive.

not what i was saying at all...but hey any excuse to mention coria

Scotso
03-06-2005, 11:21 PM
Threads here grow too quickly for my brain to process.

Chloe le Bopper
03-06-2005, 11:22 PM
not what i was saying at all...but hey any excuse to mention coria
coria :banana:

Threads here grow too quickly for my brain to process.

It's for the best. If you read through and tried to process them, your brain woudl probably stop. Mine certainly does from time to time.

federer express
03-06-2005, 11:24 PM
coria :banana:


i saw a guy that i was sure was coria when i was in barcelona. but he was with an old woman, and was staying in the same hotel as me. and there was no tennis then either. was still tempted to talk to him and check, but figured instead he was probably just coria's twin. so there might be 2 out there for u chloe

Chloe le Bopper
03-06-2005, 11:30 PM
i saw a guy that i was sure was coria when i was in barcelona. but he was with an old woman, and was staying in the same hotel as me. and there was no tennis then either. was still tempted to talk to him and check, but figured instead he was probably just coria's twin. so there might be 2 out there for u chloe
Oh goody! A Coria! Just what I've always wanted!

federer express
03-06-2005, 11:32 PM
Oh goody! A Coria! Just what I've always wanted!

and what would u do with your coria?

Coleburg83
03-06-2005, 11:38 PM
Pmac has got to go, win or lose. The guy was a terrible choice who has made terrible choices and alienated good players in the process.

Scotso
03-06-2005, 11:52 PM
alienated good players in the process.

like?

Chloe le Bopper
03-07-2005, 12:05 AM
and what would u do with your coria?
I realyl don't like Coria THAT much. I just like to joke about it :p

Coleburg83
03-07-2005, 12:14 AM
Karol.

Taylor Dent and Spadea at the top of that list. Gambill, who has achieved more than Blake and Fish when he was first selected captain years ago is another example.

Personally, I'd rather see someone who allows players to earn their way onto the squad with their results and not so-called "potential" that got James Blake for instance so many selections by PCmac.

Leo
03-07-2005, 12:17 AM
I agree that clay would have been a horrible choice for the US. Ljubicic and Ancic would have made nearly a clean sweep of it, I think. And faster court wouldn't have made sense either. Ljubicic and Ancic are used to the fast indoor conditions after this past month of play in Europe and it would have helped their serves even more. Roddick and Agassi wouldn't be able to "overpower" the Croats on a surface like the US Open hardcourt.

Coleburg83
03-07-2005, 12:19 AM
What about grass?

Chloe le Bopper
03-07-2005, 12:27 AM
What about grass?
I wondered about that. Roddick probably would have won both his matches on grass, although Mario did give him a decent match at Wimbledon. He might win both of his matches here anyways, this one against Ivan isn't over yet. I'm not so sure about Andre though?

Coleburg83
03-07-2005, 12:29 AM
Andre has a Wimbledon title if I remember correctly.

Chloe le Bopper
03-07-2005, 12:31 AM
Andre has a Wimbledon title if I remember correctly.
Yes, and you're welcome to see what my opinion on his Wimbledon title is by reading what my opinion of his clay record -and how it pertains to today- is.

Leena
03-07-2005, 12:32 AM
Andre would have got smoked by Ivan and Mario on grass.

If Andre lost to Mario on these courts... he'd have no chance in hell on a faster surface.

Andrew.
03-07-2005, 12:37 AM
Isn't this court the one that they used for the JPMorgan Chase Championships for the women?

Chloe le Bopper
03-07-2005, 12:37 AM
Shut your mouth, no one cares about what you have to say.
And nobody even knows who you are. So death to your username.

Leo
03-07-2005, 12:42 AM
Isn't this court the one that they used for the JPMorgan Chase Championships for the women?

The one they used to use (2002 and before) or currently use? I think it's the same location as the one they use now for the women near the university because it's a larger stadium in a sports complex - or at least seems to be from the few aerial shots I've seen.

Andrew.
03-07-2005, 12:43 AM
The one they used to use (2002 and before) or currently use? I think it's the same location as the one they use now for the women near the university because it's a larger stadium in a sports complex - or at least seems to be from the few aerial shots I've seen.
Yes, the one they use now that's in Carson. It's at the Home Depot Center. That's not a slow court.

Leena
03-07-2005, 12:46 AM
Shut your mouth, no one cares about what you have to say.
Hi, Al.

How are you today, sir?

Andrew.
03-07-2005, 12:47 AM
He had to leave to beat Doggles. Bad Doggles, bad.

Experimentee
03-07-2005, 01:44 AM
It wasnt bad for the US to lose to the Croats on this surface, and in their form. It wasnt a bad loss for Spain to lose to SVK indoors either. I wish people would stop looking for excuses, and whats ifs, and just accept that their team was beaten by a better team on the day.

onion
03-07-2005, 04:04 AM
oooh, I'm still sulking cos I lost $100 of my Vcash betting on the USA!!!! :( :( :(