Most overhyped player of all time? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Most overhyped player of all time?

Coleburg83
02-14-2005, 10:31 PM
"Later in the day, James Blake will take a 1-0 lead over Mardy Fish in an excitement-promising match."

When's the last time a player ranked outside the top 140 in the world who wasn't making his pro debut or a multi-slam winner was mentioned in that kind of context on the official website of pro tennis.

Is James Blake the most overrated and/or overhyped player of all time?

I can't think of anyone with his resume that has ever gotten near as much publicity.

It doesn't matter if Blake wins another ten tournaments outside of slams in his career, he'll need to do much better than that to ever justify the coverage he has gotten the past few years.

I'm not talking about guys that are top 10 but never had a big win, I'm talking about players that have never come close to being a top player, but are treated as such, maybe Tommy Ho back in the 80's would be the next closest?

adeegee
02-14-2005, 10:43 PM
i think thats really harsh. there's no doubt he wouldn't be ranked where he is if he hadn't been injured for about the last 2 years. i'm pretty certain he's a top 50 player at the very least. i also think he's an extremely talented, charismatic guy who is good for tennis....

having said that, i do agree he is overhyped as he has flattered to decieve and has won little of note

Coleburg83
02-14-2005, 10:47 PM
" i also think he's an extremely talented, charismatic guy who is good for tennis...."

But you think that he's top 50 yet extremely talented? So that could really be used for every single professional tennis player. As for charisma, unless you are in his inner circle, I don't understand that, Blake's personality to everyone like all celebrities can only be seen in context of the media coverage, which in Blake's case has been above and beyond positive.

elizabeth_c
02-14-2005, 11:13 PM
I think James Blake will surprise us this year...and we should just wait and see what happens before we judge him....GO JAMES!! I think he is better than fishsticks....!!!! :)

Leena
02-14-2005, 11:51 PM
I think it's a little early to say that about James... but, I see your point.

The most overrated player will be different for everyone... it will generally be the most hyped player in your country.

Fee
02-14-2005, 11:52 PM
Is it my imagination or are you frequently harshing on James? Let's see, a relatively small tournament in the United States writes an article for its website about TWO players from... the UNITED STATES that are featured in the 7 pm match. That's not hype, that's an attempt to sell tickets.

Regardless of his results, James is very popular with fans and tennis people, for a number of reasons. If you'd like to understand one of those reasons, go to his thread in the player forums and read the interviews he gave after the Hopman Cup this year. He is obviously an intelligent man. What's your beef with him? Did you lose a lot of money when he beat Andre at Legg Mason?

Socket
02-15-2005, 12:10 AM
I was familiar with Blake's excellent collegiate record, and when he first turned pro, I thought that he was going to meet the high expectations people had for him. For a variety of reasons, including Blake's mental weakness when he's behind, several injuries, his refusal to change coaches, family troubles (his father's illness and death), etc., he hasn't met those expectations, which is nothing new for many highly-ranked collegiate players. But he is the only African-American male on the tour who's even making a dent in the rankings, and the American media and USTA aren't going to give up on him that easily (mostly because they don't want to admit they were wrong about him). But I do think that he's not likely to emerge from the infamous "journeyman" category at this point in his career.

A more interesting question is whether he would have received the same hype if both his parents were white, rather than just his mother.

Coleburg83
02-15-2005, 12:25 AM
"Is it my imagination or are you frequently harshing on James?"

No one else seems to be on this forum or in press coverage, it's always hype like come on James we know you can do better! Or excuses for his losses.

"Let's see, a relatively small tournament in the United States writes an article for its website about TWO players from... the UNITED STATES that are featured in the 7 pm match. That's not hype, that's an attempt to sell tickets."

No it's a frequent pattern when a certain average player is constantly featured in press coverage and given top billing despite poor results. Kournikova always had people questioning the coverage and everyone took it for granted that she was being covered because she was good looking and the media image, while people act like Blake is a top player who has earned the hype he's gotten.

"He is obviously an intelligent man. What's your beef with him? Did you lose a lot of money when he beat Andre at Legg Mason?"

I never bet on sports, but I find it hilarious that you single out that one win when the press acted like Blake won a slam for beating Andre at a non-slam event and then won his only title when Paradorn did one of the worst chokes I have ever seen in live coverage.

My beef with him is that I'm tired of seeing him in all these promotions and tennis commercials and the way the media has portrayed him simply because he's black and good-looking. A white athlete in black-dominated sports like boxing for instance get the exact opposite media coverage, while anyone that questions hype surrounding a black athlete in a sport or position generally dominated by whites is crucified like for instance Rush Limbaugh for pointing out that black quarterbacks are covered by the media in the same way that Blake is because he's a black athlete in a historically white position, which like it's some big socially significant event that a black person has some skills with a racquet. Just wait until Donald Young for instance starts playing regularly as a pro, it will be like he's already Sampras.

Like I said, I root for all American players in any international competition and I'd like to see James Blake get to be half as good as he has been portrayed to be, but he needs to earn his bones. His image is just so irritating to me, especially reading between the lines, like when he endorses black nationalist literature in subtle interviews.

Auscon
02-15-2005, 12:36 AM
When the guys on, he's great to watch, but thats just not often enough

He might be a little overhyped, but couldnt say most overhyped of all time, because I really have no idea who that'd be

mitalidas
02-15-2005, 12:36 AM
IMO, paradorn (more than blake) has a ton of name-recognition relative to his actual accomplishments

Auscon
02-15-2005, 12:40 AM
IMO, paradorn (more than blake) has a ton of name-recognition relative to his actual accomplishments

but its hard not to receive that when your the best player from Asia

whereas James is quite a bit down the list of US players

Coleburg83
02-15-2005, 12:40 AM
But most of Paradorn's hype came about because of results, he had a blistering little run in 2002 and that's when he started getting hype.

Blake was hyped from the very beginning of his career, him and his brother both (multi-million dollar deals with Nike at their pro start).

Blake has been a pro since 1999, has one singles title and is not even among the top 10 American players, tell me that he's earned the kind of coverage he's gotten?

Jackie
02-15-2005, 12:42 AM
I think Federer is the most over-rated player :p
[just making sure that everyone here knows I'm being sarcastic]

Socket
02-15-2005, 12:48 AM
But most of Paradorn's hype came about because of results, he had a blistering run.

Blake was hyped from the very beginning of his career, him and his brother both (multi-million dollar deals with Nike at their pro start).

But I agree that Paradorn was overhyped for awhile, but his accomplishments exceed Blake's and I don't think I've ever seen near as much press coverage of him.
Blake's college results and raw talent probably justified most of the hype he got when he first turned pro. But now, several years into his career, he hasn't made the transition into a top-ranked pro player, so the hype is no longer justified.

Coleburg83
02-15-2005, 12:51 AM
Yeah, we all know how great college tennis is.

Chloe le Bopper
02-15-2005, 12:59 AM
I don't think it should be that surprising that he's hyped up. He's good looking, extremely well spoken and African American (in a typically lily-white sport). I don't disagree with you that he's overhyped, but I do understand why he is.

I also realize that I've offered nothing to this conversation whatsoever. I will excuse myself now.

Coleburg83
02-15-2005, 01:03 AM
You know I've never really thought that Latin Americans were considered to be white and they have always held a huge presence in tennis, but it is always referred to as lily-white as if that would be a bad thing.

You know I've never heard of sports dominated by blacks referred to in a negative context for being so. "Geez it's great to see so and so in the char-black sport of basketball." I bet that would be a great story.

BiancaUL
02-15-2005, 01:08 AM
while anyone that questions hype surrounding a black athlete in a sport or position generally dominated by whites is crucified like for instance Rush Limbaugh for pointing out that black quarterbacks are covered by the media in the same way that Blake is because he's a black athlete in a historically white position

Limbaugh is overstuffed slime who didn't know what the hell he was talking about. That's why he got rightfully crucified for his idiotic comments about Donovan McNabb.

Blake gets hype here because he's American. He could be royal purple and with lemon yellow polka dots on his face and there'd be some group out there pushing him or "hyping" him.

Coleburg83
02-15-2005, 01:18 AM
Limbaugh pointed out a simple fact. He said that McNabb got more credit than he deserved and the Eagles defense less. He said that the media desired black quarterbacks to do well, do you think those statements are inaccurate?

So Spadea, Dent, Fish, Kim, Ginepri Gambill, Morrison and Bogomolov have all gotten the same kind of coverage that Blake has or more since they are ranked higher?

liptea
02-15-2005, 01:25 AM
Limbaugh pointed out a simple fact. He said that McNabb got more credit than he deserved and the Eagles defense less. He said that the media desired black quarterbacks to do well, do you think those statements are inaccurate?

So Spadea, Dent, Fish, Kim, Ginepri Gambill, Morrison and Bogomolov have all gotten the same kind of coverage that Blake has or more since they are ranked higher?

You might have had a semi-legitimate point until you tried to rationalize your argument with Rush Limbaugh.

I think Blake is doing fine. Considering he won a couple of rounds at the Aussie Open and succeeded in taking a set of the eventual finalist-all this after he came off a long injury layoff- I think he'll do well this year.

BiancaUL
02-15-2005, 01:26 AM
As opposed to how Limbaugh called out Peyton Manning for getting too much credit when Edgerrin James and his impeccable crew of wide receivers were actually due most of it? Nevermind his own inability to win the big one?

White quarterbacks are over-hyped and over-credited all the time. From Manning to Warner to currently Brady or whoever... yet Limbaugh had to call out McNabb just because he was black. Damn straight the oxy-cotin stuffing loudmouth didn't know what the hell he was talking about.

So Spadea, Dent, Fish, Kim, Ginepri Gambill, Morrison and Bogomolov have all gotten the same kind of coverage that Blake has or more since they are ranked higher?

The only one I'd say on that list that gets the short end of the stick is Dent, maybe Spadea (but he's not a 'sellable' player to the masses at this point in his career like a Blake or a Fish, so I understand it).

Chloe le Bopper
02-15-2005, 01:33 AM
You know I've never really thought that Latin Americans were considered to be white and they have always held a huge presence in tennis, but it is always referred to as lily-white as if that would be a bad thing.

You know I've never heard of sports dominated by blacks referred to in a negative context for being so. "Geez it's great to see so and so in the char-black sport of basketball." I bet that would be a great story.
Hey, don't look to me for answers. I'm just repeating what I read everywhere: "black people! in tennis! where everybody is white! quick, write a story about it!" ;)

Coleburg83
02-15-2005, 01:36 AM
"I think Blake is doing fine. Considering he won a couple of rounds at the Aussie Open and succeeded in taking a set of the eventual finalist"

Yes, quite a standard. We all know how important and big an event it is to take a set off a top player, it's too bad for James that all matches aren't decided in one set.

Fee
02-15-2005, 01:46 AM
So Spadea, Dent, Fish, Kim, Ginepri Gambill, Morrison and Bogomolov have all gotten the same kind of coverage that Blake has or more since they are ranked higher?


Oh puuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh-leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaasssee.

First off, James' ranking is bad at the moment because he took 4 months off the tour. Prior to that he was 5th or 6th ranked American for much of last year, and I think, the 4th at the beginning of the year. And from that list, career-wise, NO ONE has gotten more 'hype' than JanMike (mostly based on his looks and his weird game). There seems to be one basic rule that you are forgetting - 'hype' by its very definition is undeserved, that's why it's called 'hype'. So what if James gets ink, no one has proclaimed him the second coming. He's usually grouped in with the other 'Young Americans' and its usually only over here. Some writers think that he has an interesting back story (harvard guy, mixed race, scoliosis as a child, whatever else they choose). The USTA has pushed him forward because he sets a good example, he's more than willing to work with them, and he is so well-behaved that he gains new fans when he does appearances.

James has never asked for the attention. He's a good guy who does what he can to help the sport that he loves. Surely you can give your hate to someone in this world who is spreading some real form of evil?

Coleburg83
02-15-2005, 01:52 AM
"Surely you can give your hate to someone in this world who is spreading some real form of evil?"

But this is a tennis forum the last time I checked and were supposed to talk about tennis players.

I don't hate Blake or think he's evil, I'm just saying that he is overrated/overhyped/overexposed and since that's frequently a topic of discussion among other players, I don't think just because the media gives him a special exemption from criticism means that the fans have to do as well.

AgassiFan
02-15-2005, 02:41 AM
"is crucified like for instance Rush Limbaugh .



Um....Rush Limba got "crucified" for two reasons:

1. He is an evil hypocrite-scumbag, despised by everyone/everything Righteous and Divine. Yawn.

2. His knowledge of football and the "entertainment" value (or lack thereof) brought to the table as a broadcaster verges in nil. The young Donovan McNabb has taken his team to 4 NFC Championship games, including a Superbowl appearances since Jubba the Rush opened his trap. :D


James Blake is Black and all mid-aged ladies are creaming for him. That makes for a good story, so the media is all over it. Welcome to Western civilization. Personally, I could care less about all the hype, which will be dwindling anyway as he continues to lose, lose, lose.

vogus
02-15-2005, 02:42 AM
Yeah, we all know how great college tennis is.



Division 1 US college tennis is garbage compared even to the 10K satellites, much less the main tour.

Blake used Harvard for publicity and marketing purposes, to build an image for himself, then he got out after two years to take advantage of his buzz. And his people have played him being half-black for all it was worth. It was damn good marketing.

I don't know about Blake being overrated as a player, he had some pretty solid results, but i think his intelligence is overrated. He got into Harvard because he was a jock, not because he was smart.

Coleburg83
02-15-2005, 02:52 AM
The young Donovan McNabb has taken his team to 4 NFC Championship games, including a Superbowl appearances since Jubba the Rush opened his trap.

Exactly what Limbaugh was saying, people didn't give the Eagles defense enough credit and focus solely on McNabb.

No more on that subject, people can make their own decision, but Limbaugh was crucified for stating simple truth.

AgassiFan
02-15-2005, 03:11 AM
No more on that subject, people can make their own decision, but Limbaugh was crucified for stating simple truth.

Ooh, another dittohead parroting pre-digested nonsense.... :rolleyes:

When McNabb retires in 10 years, he will go down in history as having a record number of NFC Championship game appearances (6 or 7) - all the while, Eagles defense, O-line, WR corps, etc have been rotating and rotating. Last season, he had a QB rating of the outstanding 105 - and he's only began his QB prime. He may not have the pure passing talent of Manning or even Brady, he is still easily in the Top 3 all-around QB any team would love to have.

Rush is a poor judge of talent, and he got burned trying to start another Limbaugh-esque controversy. Get over it.







...

Coleburg83
02-15-2005, 03:24 AM
Agassifan, do you honestly believe that the Eagles defense was getting the credit it deserved during all those seasons or that the media didn't want black quarterbacks to do well?

That is what Limbaugh said. As for being a dittohead, I never listen to the radio, so that would be hard to measure up to.

ca1houn
02-15-2005, 04:35 AM
You know I've never really thought that Latin Americans were considered to be white and they have always held a huge presence in tennis, but it is always referred to as lily-white as if that would be a bad thing.

You know I've never heard of sports dominated by blacks referred to in a negative context for being so. "Geez it's great to see so and so in the char-black sport of basketball." I bet that would be a great story.


Latino Americans can be black or white because the criteria for assignation membership to particular races had relatively little to do with biology but appearance. Furthermore since there only like six categories of race most Latino Americans would be put into a Caucasoid class. However Most people from USA my self included would classify them as Hispanic origin. :topic:

sorry about that

Coleburg83
02-15-2005, 04:46 AM
Yeah, they certainly are a mixed group, pun intended.

pravda
02-15-2005, 10:22 AM
I dont know if it true or not, but i hear that Blake used to wear a back brace until the age of 14 due to some spinal problem - hence why he walk with bum stick out. Does this not show true courage and an amazing character?

TheMightyFed
02-15-2005, 10:33 AM
Do we talk about pro tennis here or about college tennis/American football/race definitions ?
Blake can possibly be overrated at times, as the field of American players is not as strong as it used to be and the future seems a bit uncertain, so the attention of the media is focused on him at times, which is understandable given the ethnocentered approach of the US, in sports especially (+movies, food...). Nothing to see with race IMO ;)

PaulieM
02-15-2005, 12:19 PM
I dont know if it true or not, but i hear that Blake used to wear a back brace until the age of 14 due to some spinal problem - hence why he walk with bum stick out. Does this not show true courage and an amazing character?
he has scoliosis, and he did have to wear a brace

BiancaUL
02-15-2005, 12:38 PM
To be honest, I'm not even sure where this 'hyping' or overpublicity is coming from. The only tennis players who get any sort of mainstream pub in the American media are the Williams sisters, Andre, Andy, Anna (Although she doesn't really count a tennis player any more, does she?), and more recently Sharapova. Capriati will occasionally get something and maybe a small Federer or Hewitt whatever will be made on like PTI, I, Max or some other sports talk show... but that's about it.

Everyone else gets scraps, peaking with the occasional blurb whenever tennis rolls into a town and the tourney wants to promote who's playing in it.

That is what Limbaugh said.

No it isn't, but if you want to keep believing it and using anything that that despicable blowhard said as a merit-having point, fine.

Experimentee
02-15-2005, 12:47 PM
You are always complaining about Blake. Give the guy a fucking break. Your argument seems to be based on his current ranking, but you'd have to be a moron to think thats a reflection of where his ability lies. I'm sure most players wouldnt have been able to stay in the top 50 if they had injuries and illnesses for most of the year, and additionally have to cope with the death of a father!
And that quote you posted doesnt even prove he is overhyped. It just says it will be an exciting match, and you cant deny that it happened. No ones said he will be the best ever, or even in the top 5. If thats the best evidence you can find of Blake's hype, then you are really struggling. From what I've seen, the coverage he gets is from his interesting background stories, and he has a lot of fans because you'd be hard pressed to find a nicer guy on tour.

tennischick
02-15-2005, 02:14 PM
Blake gets one throwaway sentence in an article and suddenly he is overhyped? :confused:

i think he gets more attention from Señor Coleburg than the rest of the media combined. :rolleyes:

too bad you didn't have a date last night Señor. you could have spent your time doing something much more fun than bashing on a player that the print media dismiss with the odd sentence here or there.

Fumus
02-15-2005, 02:16 PM
I will tell you who is over hyped, that damn Roger Federer, what has he ever done. He just gets by on his good looks, and snazzy hair styles.

tennischick
02-15-2005, 02:22 PM
i agree :hearts: :hearts: Rogi is sooooo undeserving of all that hype!!! :hearts: :kiss:

jasmine(usa)
02-15-2005, 02:26 PM
I think James Blake will surprise us this year...and we should just wait and see what happens before we judge him....GO JAMES!! I think he is better than fishsticks....!!!! :)Amen sister!:wavey:

Coleburg83
02-15-2005, 03:54 PM
Yeah, damn Anna got it rough for a long time. I guess she should have got the publicity based on her "ability" and not results.

TheMightyFed
02-15-2005, 03:55 PM
I will tell you who is over hyped, that damn Roger Federer, what has he ever done. He just gets by on his good looks, and snazzy hair styles.
Yes, Fed is so overhyped, especially in the US, people are bored to see him everyday on TV, and he's harassed everywhere he goes in this country... ;)

Turkeyballs Paco
02-15-2005, 10:41 PM
Yes, Fed is so overhyped, especially in the US, people are bored to see him everyday on TV, and he's harassed everywhere he goes in this country... ;)

Fed who? Sorry, I'm from Texas. I only know about Roddick. :p

PaulieM
02-16-2005, 03:03 AM
james is hot, and a real sweetie so they can "hype" him up all they want (even thought they don't at all). i wouldn't mind seeing his face all over the place :)

Nimomunz
02-16-2005, 03:33 AM
In the tennis circles Fed is hyped not overhyped but in usa fed who..... I dunno that one!! Tennis wat that be? :confused: :confused: :confused:

Seleshfan
02-16-2005, 06:39 AM
Well is this the most overhyped tennis player thread or the debate Coleburg83 thread? Geesh the guy was just expressing his opinion. Doesn't mean it's correct. I personally, disagree that James has been hyped. I have never heard any of the tennis pundits proclaim him as a potential Grand Slam contender. What I do associate with James are his good looks, (e.g., People's sexiest person list). And what a surprise that in America the press would focus on a good looking, mediocre, American athlete, over a more talented, less attractive one. Anyway, I would argue that no male player (In America) is overhyped. I would argue that men's tennis doesn't get the coverage it should.

misyou25
02-16-2005, 04:18 PM
he's actually a very cool and nice player, just had some stupid injuries....otherwise he would be top 30 or so the very least...lets hope he'll be ok from now on

Leena
02-16-2005, 04:23 PM
As far as the most overrated player today in the US... it's definitely Venus Williams.

The girl is finished, yet ESPN still talks of her as a threat in every tournament. They went on how it would be an all-Willies final... ignoring that Lindsay was by far the favorite to win if Vee made the QF.

The injury excuse doesn't even work anymore, she's been fine for nearly a year now. The girl just don't give a shit about her game, and it shows so obviously. Losing 3 & 2 to fucking Bovina should have been a wakeup.

federer express
02-16-2005, 04:24 PM
As far as the most overrated player today in the US... it's definitely Venus Williams.

The girl is finished, yet ESPN still talks of her as a threat in every tournament. They went on how it would be an all-Willies final... ignoring that Lindsay was by far the favorite to win if Vee made the QF.

The injury excuse doesn't even work anymore, she's been fine for nearly a year now. The girl just don't give a shit about her game, and it shows so obviously. Losing 3 & 2 to fucking Bovina should have been a wakeup.

venus williams..most overhyped??? one of the most successful women players of all time yes! most overhyped....yeah right

federer express
02-16-2005, 04:28 PM
gambill was quite hyped in the early days

In_Disguise
02-17-2005, 09:06 PM
Well, i can say with some certainty that the most overhyped player of all time at Wimbledon is...Tim Henman!!!

Andrew.
02-17-2005, 09:18 PM
Monique Veile. That was soft-core porn right there.