Which of these players would have been n1 in a different era? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Which of these players would have been n1 in a different era?

Ben D.
04-08-2013, 01:53 PM
Which of these players could/would have been n1 during 2000-2005 years?

I mean before the Federer-Nadal monopoly and before the rise of Djokovic. How would they rank with the likes of Sampras, Agassi, early Federer, Roddick and Hewitt?

ogbg
04-08-2013, 01:57 PM
Which players?

EDIT: They've been added now, so ignore my message.

Abel
04-08-2013, 02:07 PM
Impossible to say for sure of course but I'd imagine Soderling and Delpo are the prime candidates. The others aren't good enough or have serious issues (mental/physical).

n8
04-08-2013, 02:10 PM
1999-2003 is the period you're after I think. February 2004 onwards would've been very difficult for any of these players to rise to number one.

Moozza
04-08-2013, 02:22 PM
None

GSMnadal
04-08-2013, 02:25 PM
None

I think Andrew Murray would be a good shout, don't you think?

Strange he's not on the list

Mark Lenders
04-08-2013, 02:26 PM
None of these ever played at a high enough level over 12 months to be #1, I believe.

Maybe Del Potro's 2009 level would have been enough to be #1 at one specific point pre-Fedal, that's the only maybe here. None of the others listed ever produced consistently enough for #1 to even be a possibility in any era.

GSMnadal
04-08-2013, 02:28 PM
None of these ever played at a high enough level over 12 months to be #1, I believe.

Maybe Del Potro's 2009 level would have been enough to be #1 at one specific point pre-Fedal, that's the only maybe here. None of the others listed ever produced consistently enough for #1 to even be a possibility in any era.

There was a time you didn't have to be so consistent to be #1.

Del Potro could easily make it, he almost made it in 2010 before his injury. That run he was on would've been enough in another era.

Moozza
04-08-2013, 02:31 PM
I think Andrew Murray would be a good shout, don't you think?

Strange he's not on the list

He would be a very good shout but as you say he is not on the list so I did not take him into consideration.

Timot
04-08-2013, 02:34 PM
I'd rather count it from 2000 to mid-2003 instead of 2000-05.

Hard to say, but from these mentioned above, peak Soderling would probably have most chances.

Berdych, Del Potro and Tsonga can't even pass Ferrer so I doubt they'd pass all the guys like: Hewitt, Agassi, Kuerten and Roddick. Especially Leyton might be too tough for them. They might pass some of them, but to be no. 1, they'd have to pass them all with better results in a 52-week-period - can't see that happening. Perhaps peak Delpo might do it if he had a great few months but it would probably be a temporal no. 1.

With all due respect, I wouldn't even consider the rest of the guys you mentioned as possible no. 1.

Mark Lenders
04-08-2013, 02:35 PM
There was a time you didn't have to be so consistent to be #1.

Del Potro could easily make it, he almost made it in 2010 before his injury. That run he was on would've been enough in another era.

You needed some degree of consistency though, which the names in the poll bar JMDP were never capable of.

Yes, Del Potro won 1 Slam, made 1 SF and 1 QF, F at WTF, QF-F in 6 of the 8 Masters he entered... I'm sure there have been former #1s with worse numbers over 12 months ie even with the injury happening he could have had a shot at it in a non-Fedal field, not to mention that in such a field his result would have been better since he was stopped by Fedal at 2 Slams and 3 Masters. Apart from pre-surgery Del Potro though, I don't think any of the other names in the poll would have even a puncher's chance at #1 in any era though.

atennisfan
04-08-2013, 02:35 PM
Where is the "none" option?

Juz78
04-08-2013, 02:35 PM
You needed to put a "none" option...

n8
04-08-2013, 02:35 PM
Place Soderling's 2010 form/season into 2002.

Perhaps could've titled at Roland Garros, Paris indoors (as he did already) and put in semi-final showings at Wimbledon and the US Open. Those results may have given him a sneak in at number one sometime very late in the year.

paseo
04-08-2013, 02:37 PM
You need to learn respect for the greats of the game.

It's really offensive to think that the likes of Almagro, Cilic, Simon, etc. would've been a threat to Sampras's or Agassi's reign as #1. Heck, I'm pretty certain they can't even touch early Federer, Roddick and Hewitt reigns too.

Fedalovic
04-08-2013, 02:41 PM
You needed some degree of consistency though, which the names in the poll bar JMDP were never capable of.

Yes, Del Potro won 1 Slam, made 1 SF and 1 QF, F at WTF, QF-F in 6 of the 8 Masters he entered... I'm sure there have been former #1s with worse numbers over 12 months ie even with the injury happening he could have had a shot at it in a non-Fedal field, not to mention that in such a field his result would have been better since he was stopped by Fedal at 2 Slams and 3 Masters. Apart from pre-surgery Del Potro though, I don't think any of the other names in the poll would have even a puncher's chance at #1 in any era though.
Affirmative. Del Potro is the only non-choker out of the list.

abraxas21
04-08-2013, 02:51 PM
:lol: none. what kind of question is this?

any of those players would have been lucky to make it to the top 50 in any decent era.

Mark Lenders
04-08-2013, 02:58 PM
Affirmative. Del Potro is the only non-choker out of the list.

Mental strength is the least of the problems with the other names on the poll. Soderling, Berdych and Tsonga have always struggled with consistency even if on their best day they can produce #1-worthy tennis. The others are not even worth discussing.

Topspindoctor
04-08-2013, 02:58 PM
All of them in the 90's. Was a massive mug era. A serve bot managed to win 14 slams tells you all you need to know.

TigerTim
04-08-2013, 03:30 PM
All of them in the 90's. Was a massive mug era. A serve bot managed to win 14 slams tells you all you need to know.

An ageing serve bot won Wimbledon last year :shrug:

A talentless moonballer grabbed the CYGS on homogenised courts :wavey:

A pushing Scot is no.2

IMO 90s>>>>10s

TigerTim
04-08-2013, 03:33 PM
The only player with any talent in this era is Federer.

And thats a talent for shanking backhands out of the stadium

BauerAlmeida
04-08-2013, 03:47 PM
I'd rather count it from 2000 to mid-2003 instead of 2000-05.



This. Federer was a beast in 2004-05, so none of them would have a chance.

Only peak Soderlin/Del potro could have been #1 in 2000-2003. But most of the players on that list wouldn't be #1 in any era.

BackhandDTL
04-08-2013, 03:56 PM
None of them.

The only one with potential, based on what they've shown thus far, is Soderling. Repeat major finalists are so rare that you have to recognize how great he is on clay. Had he managed a winning performance in a year like 2002, where Costa managed to slip through at RG, he could have earned a temporary stay at number one. Moya managed the same thing early in '99 after RG, Monte Carlo, and strong showings in other Majors and Masters; just slightly better than Soderling's year in 2010.

There are other years, I'm sure, in the 90's, but 2002 stands out because Hewitt's numbers weren't terribly great as a number one.

Stronga23
04-08-2013, 03:57 PM
Tsonga have won 2011 Wimbledon if the courts weren't like clay the second week.

Ben D.
04-08-2013, 06:07 PM
I agree with many of you that 2004 was almost "too late" for any of these guy to reach n1 but consider it the last extremity.

I did not include Murray in the list because-open the Hellgate-I consider that, mathematically, he will probably reach the n1 ranking at one point in his career, even for a few weeks. A strong showing at RG with a little slump from the 2 big guys and he could manage a #1 rank. Roddick was n1 at the time Federer was already a major winner. And considering ATP ranking being basically the same as WTA, Wozniacki was n1 for a full year, and she is nowhere near Murray.

If you're still there, i did not include guys who are of the same era of Federer-Safin-Roddick, because it has been proven they couldn't do it. so no Ferrer, Davydenko, Nalbandian and of course Koellerer.

BackhandDTL
04-08-2013, 06:21 PM
^ I'd say 2003 would be too late.

Roddick pulled off one of the GOAT summers that year and still didn't immediately reach #1 that year despite semis in two other Majors. And that speaks to Ferrero's efforts, who was a huge double-threat on clay and hards that year, winning big titles on both. And then you had Fed with Wimbledon and TMC.

I'm not sure at what point any of the players listed would have made #1 in '03, let alone against these players, Agassi, and fit Dave around.

Mark Lenders
04-08-2013, 06:24 PM
None of them.

The only one with potential, based on what they've shown thus far, is Soderling. Repeat major finalists are so rare that you have to recognize how great he is on clay. Had he managed a winning performance in a year like 2002, where Costa managed to slip through at RG, he could have earned a temporary stay at number one. Moya managed the same thing early in '99 after RG, Monte Carlo, and strong showings in other Majors and Masters; just slightly better than Soderling's year in 2010.

There are other years, I'm sure, in the 90's, but 2002 stands out because Hewitt's numbers weren't terribly great as a number one.

You mean Del Potro, right? His 2009 year was soundly stronger Soderling's 2010 or any 12 month period of these players listed, not to mention it'd have been even better in a non-Fedal field as he was stopped by Federer at Australia, FO and Madrid and Nadal at Indian Wells.

Schumacher
04-08-2013, 06:36 PM
I'd pick Del Potro.
Imo he is quite similar to Safin in many things - he is very talented, but incostistent. He is capable of defeating even peak top players, but at the next tournament he loses in the first round. Both quite vulnerable to injuries. On court both are preforming like tired after long night party, etc...

If Safin managed to get to the top, I believe DelPo would have too....in that era...

I think, that also Ferrer would have been close to the no.1 or have reached it. I think he isn't worse player than Ferrero or Moya (or Muster in the earlier period), who had reached the top (although he is missing the major title)...

BackhandDTL
04-08-2013, 06:59 PM
You mean Del Potro, right? His 2009 year was soundly stronger Soderling's 2010 or any 12 month period of these players listed, not to mention it'd have been even better in a non-Fedal field as he was stopped by Federer at Australia, FO and Madrid and Nadal at Indian Wells.

No, I mean exactly who I said: Soderling, particularly because of his proven legitimacy on clay. I don't know that Del Potro at any time would have been consistent enough (especially given his injuries) to produce not just the heights, but volume necessary to grab #1 through primarily hard court efforts, especially if we're taking into account surface speed.

Of course, I forgot about some of Del Po's fantastic efforts in '09, particularly at the WTF and RG, but I also think you're going too far by implying that so many of his semi/QF results would be subject to change.

Fedalovic
04-08-2013, 07:15 PM
Mental strength is the least of the problems with the other names on the poll. Soderling, Berdych and Tsonga have always struggled with consistency even if on their best day they can produce #1-worthy tennis. The others are not even worth discussing.
Consistency and mental strength go hand in hand. Del Potro's final record is stellar, and unlike other sports in tennis it is all about playing the big points correctly, and Del Potro has shown that he could step it up during the latter stages of a tournament, despite mugging out occasionally (e.g. Miami, AO this year).
Vulture is consistent - but do you honestly think he can be n.1 back then?

Mark Lenders
04-08-2013, 07:43 PM
No, I mean exactly who I said: Soderling, particularly because of his proven legitimacy on clay. I don't know that Del Potro at any time would have been consistent enough (especially given his injuries) to produce not just the heights, but volume necessary to grab #1 through primarily hard court efforts, especially if we're taking into account surface speed.

Of course, I forgot about some of Del Po's fantastic efforts in '09, particularly at the WTF and RG, but I also think you're going too far by implying that so many of his semi/QF results would be subject to change.

He would have been in 2009 in a non-Fedal field. Djokovic and Murray got slightly more ranking points than him during the year because they were protected from Fedal (and Djokovic/Murray) in the QF stage, allowing them to accumulate a lot of 'easy' points in Masters events (in Slams Delpo got more points than both of them together). Without Fedal, and going merely by the form the players showed at each event, he would have been joint favorite with Roddick to take AO (and Roddick is a good matchup for him), clear favorite to take the FO (Soderling was in great form, but Delpo is a horrendous matchup for him, not to mention mentally tougher in a Slam final situation) and got some better Masters runs.

Even taking his results with Fedal there into consideration: AO - QF RG - SF W - R2 USO - W WTF - F Masters - QF-F in 6 of the 8 he entered. I'm sure you can find some former #1s with worse numbers over a 12 month period. These are #1-worthy numbers in most fields of the past two decades not dominated by Federer, Nadal or Djokovic (post 2011) and they were obtained when he was 20yo, with a subsequent major injury not letting us see if he could improve even more on that performance.

Soderling had a good 12 months, but they'd hardly put him in contention for #1 in any era - he made final in RG, two more Slam QFs, lost R1 in Australia. Lost round robin at WTF. Won Bercy, which he probably wouldn't have if #1 was on the line in that event, and was solid at the Masters overall. His record against Fedal was poor (as opposed to Delpo's 5-4 lead in 2009). It was the season of a strong top 5 player, not a contender to become the best player in the world.

Consistency and mental strength go hand in hand. Del Potro's final record is stellar, and unlike other sports in tennis it is all about playing the big points correctly, and Del Potro has shown that he could step it up during the latter stages of a tournament, despite mugging out occasionally (e.g. Miami, AO this year).
Vulture is consistent - but do you honestly think he can be n.1 back then?

I agree that mental strength is a factor as well, but it's not like lack of mental strength is the reason Isner, Cilic, Simon and co. can't be #1, is it? Delpo is very strong mentally but also has the game to back that up: he will probably never be #1 now especially since he keeps getting injured all the time, but at the time he definitely showed potential to do it and could actually have done it if he was not in a field dominated by two of the best ever players - just like Djokovic's rise to #1 was delayed by the same reason, and Murray's now.

Also, Vulture can't be #1 on any field.

Ziggy B
04-08-2013, 07:49 PM
Delpo and potentially Soderling during the 02-03 seasons. Both excellent players who could maybe have pinched it Moya-style with some consistently good results. Delpo's pre-injury form might have done it back in 2002.

Mountaindewslave
04-08-2013, 08:06 PM
maybe Del Potro
there was a lot of heat and raw talent still around even early 2000s
Agassi and Sampras still playing great tennis every tournament now and then
Hewitt, Ferrero and some young guns playing well
mid aged players like Kuerten and Moya threats
I honestly am not sure any of those players on your top list would be able to get to #1