Servebots or Pushers? which type of player is more tolerable [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Servebots or Pushers? which type of player is more tolerable

MrPlateperson
04-01-2013, 12:35 AM
If you were forced to pick 1 of these 2 matches to watch would it be:


Karlovic vs Isner in Halle
or
Monfils vs Simon in Monte Carlo




Would any of you watch them willingly?

Ziggy B
04-01-2013, 12:48 AM
Pushers probably, at least guaranteed a few good rallies and some interesting tactics during some points. Servebots without any groundgame are tedious to watch

MrPlateperson
04-01-2013, 12:56 AM
Pushers probably, at least guaranteed a few good rallies and some interesting tactics during some points. Servebots without any groundgame are tedious to watch

But you would also have to deal with plenty of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8iunyDh4ms

Abel
04-01-2013, 12:57 AM
I'd take pushers every day. But as with all these discussions (playing styles, court surfaces, court speeds) what we should be getting as fans is variety and not one style/court surface/speed being utterly dominant.

ADaddy69
04-01-2013, 01:14 AM
But you would also have to deal with plenty of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8iunyDh4ms

Servebots are far worse
For example: http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ivf3TOUY78

ADaddy69
04-01-2013, 01:15 AM
I'd take pushers every day. But as with all these discussions (playing styles, court surfaces, court speeds) what we should be getting as fans is variety and not one style/court surface/speed being utterly dominant.

Well you are quite biased considering you're a Djokovic fan.

Tag
04-01-2013, 01:18 AM
karlovic-isner

the hell would be over far sooner

VamosRafaNadal
04-01-2013, 01:23 AM
I never thought that I was going to say this but I prefer pushers.

But you would also have to deal with plenty of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8iunyDh4ms

Buff this is tough :lol:

ADaddy69
04-01-2013, 01:24 AM
I never thought that I was going to say this but I prefer pushers.

Not a surprise coming from a Nadal fan.

Abel
04-01-2013, 01:24 AM
Well you are quite biased considering you're a Djokovic fan.

What has being a Djokovic fan got to do with what I said?

ADaddy69
04-01-2013, 01:31 AM
What has being a Djokovic fan got to do with what I said?

If I remember correctly you said you prefer pushers. You must have built tolerance to pushing assuming you watch a lot of Djokovic matches.
tl;dr Djokovic is the biggest push on tour.

MrPlateperson
04-01-2013, 01:50 AM
If I remember correctly you said you prefer pushers. You must have built tolerance to pushing assuming you watch a lot of Djokovic matches.
tl;dr Djokovic is the biggest push on tour.


Hes less of a push than your boy Murray. Couldnt put away shit against Ferrer today.

misty1
04-01-2013, 01:54 AM
karlovic-isner

the hell would be over far sooner

Unless your somewhere like wimbledon. Then you wind up with an isner/mahut like situation..might last longer too

I prefer to watch the so called pushers. I absolutely despise serve bots

ADaddy69
04-01-2013, 01:55 AM
Hes less of a push than your boy Murray. Couldnt put away shit against Ferrer today.

Murray couldn't put anything away because of a combination of the wind, the slow courts, and the impeccable defense of David Ferrer.

Tag
04-01-2013, 01:59 AM
Unless your somewhere like wimbledon. Then you wind up with an isner/mahut like situation..might last longer too

I prefer to watch the so called pushers. I absolutely despise serve bots

not really, because with proper grass courts, players have to follow the serve to the net...

ADaddy69
04-01-2013, 02:15 AM
not really, because with proper grass courts, players have to follow the serve to the net...

The most prestigious grass court tournament doesn't have proper grass courts. :rolleyes:

Julián Santiago
04-01-2013, 02:17 AM
If I remember correctly you said you prefer pushers. You must have built tolerance to pushing assuming you watch a lot of Djokovic matches.
tl;dr Djokovic is the biggest push on tour.

Have you ever seen the 2006-2010 Djokovic?

:wavey:

I prefer servebots all day. Servebots are tennis like Satasonic used to say

Tag
04-01-2013, 02:20 AM
Have you ever seen the 2006-2010 Djokovic?

:wavey:

I prefer servebots all day. Servebots are tennis like Satasonic used to say

of course you would prefer servebots...that's all the old swiss can do these days :shrug:

MrPlateperson
04-01-2013, 02:35 AM
of course you would prefer servebots...that's all the old swiss can do these days :shrug:

:confused: The old mans serve is terrible right now. Fedtards will say its his back ignoring the truth.... that hes just become a terrible server.

Tag
04-01-2013, 02:36 AM
:confused: The old mans serve is terrible right now. Fedtards will say its his back ignoring the truth.... that hes just become a terrible server.

which is why he is falling fast...

look at the race, lol

ADaddy69
04-01-2013, 02:49 AM
1. Novak Djokovic: Obviously a push. There's really know arguing with that.
3. Roger Federer: He's become a servebot late in his career.
4. David Ferrer: Another first class pusher.
5. Rafael Nadal: Obviously a push. Just ask Verdasco.
6. Tomas Berdych: Servebot.
7. Juan Martin Del Potro: Servebot ANDa push. Just look at his backhand.
8. Jo-Wilfried Tsonga: Servebot.
9. Janko Tipsarevic: Servebot. I don't need to explain myself.
10. Richard Gasquet: Push.

Proof that Murray is the only player who's not a push or servebot.

Tag
04-01-2013, 02:52 AM
1. Novak Djokovic: Obviously a push. There's really know arguing with that.
3. Roger Federer: He's become a servebot late in his career.
4. David Ferrer: Another first class pusher.
5. Rafael Nadal: Obviously a push. Just ask Verdasco.
6. Tomas Berdych: Servebot.
7. Juan Martin Del Potro: Servebot ANDa push. Just look at his backhand.
8. Jo-Wilfried Tsonga: Servebot.
9. Janko Tipsarevic: Servebot. I don't need to explain myself.
10. Richard Gasquet: Push.

Proof that Murray is the only player who's not a push or servebot.

tipsarevic is technically a shitbot, but otherwise excellent analysis

ADaddy69
04-01-2013, 02:57 AM
of course you would prefer servebots...that's all the old swiss can do these days :shrug:

:confused: The old mans serve is terrible right now. Fedtards will say its his back ignoring the truth.... that hes just become a terrible server.

Federer's serve hasn't gotten worse, the returners have just gotten better in this golden era of tennis.

MrPlateperson
04-01-2013, 03:14 AM
Unfortunatley the trend in tennis seems as if taller guys will take over over the next 10-15 years.

ADaddy69
04-01-2013, 03:20 AM
Unfortunatley the trend in tennis seems as if taller guys will take over over the next 10-15 years.

What makes you think that? Approximately 90% of the top 100 is 6'3 or under. The player with the most promising future, Dimitrov, is 6'2. Do some research before making a comment like that. Big men will never take over tennis.

ADaddy69
04-01-2013, 03:21 AM
What makes you think that? Approximately 90% of the top 100 is 6'3 or under. The player with the most promising future, Dimitrov, is 6'2. Do some research before making a comment like that. Big men will never take over tennis.

Not to mention the two most dominant players in the game, Murray and Djokovic, are 6'3 and 6'2 respectively.

Johnny Groove
04-01-2013, 03:26 AM
Neither, really.

Why must it be so dramatic? Why Isner-Karlovic or Simon-Monfils?

Why not Gasquet-Haas?

If the courts are more diversified, there will be less pushing and more net play.

ADaddy69
04-01-2013, 03:28 AM
Neither, really.

Why must it be so dramatic? Why Isner-Karlovic or Simon-Monfils?

Why not Gasquet-Haas?

If the courts are more diversified, there will be less pushing and more net play.

Because that was the question.

Julián Santiago
04-01-2013, 03:32 AM
of course you would prefer servebots...that's all the old swiss can do these days :shrug:

:lol:

Well, sometimes this is the truth. But ROger is and old australian school player and you know it Tag. Of course, he delivers alla servebot a lot of matches. But unfortunately his serve is declining this yeear.

I prefer two servebots because is the lesser of two evils. I will chose something like Isner-Gilles Muller not Isner-KArlovic or Isner-Querrey.

The old swiss will give you a surprise in some part of the year, you`ll see :wavey:

tennisfan856
04-01-2013, 03:35 AM
it bothers me to see players with recreational ground strokes make a ton of money because they can just serve bombs from a tree. And then they can go far because other players crumble in tb's.

Julián Santiago
04-01-2013, 03:37 AM
1. Novak Djokovic: Obviously a push. There's really know arguing with that.
3. Roger Federer: He's become a servebot late in his career.
4. David Ferrer: Another first class pusher.
5. Rafael Nadal: Obviously a push. Just ask Verdasco.
6. Tomas Berdych: Servebot.
7. Juan Martin Del Potro: Servebot ANDa push. Just look at his backhand.
8. Jo-Wilfried Tsonga: Servebot.
9. Janko Tipsarevic: Servebot. I don't need to explain myself.
10. Richard Gasquet: Push.

Proof that Murray is the only player who's not a push or servebot.

Djokovic a pusher? More a grinder btw. But I repeat, Have you ever seen the 2006-2010 Djokovic? No way you can call him a counterpuncher. Today he grinds a lot more, but he is not a counterpouncher and he`s not a pusher.

NAdal is not a pusher. Are you sick? Ferrer? Well, he is a marathonist, but he dictate the points with his forehand

Berdych servebots? He is a ballbasher, and really less agressive since 2009/2010. His serve is really erratic to become a servebot

Tsonga? A complete offensive player. When he is playing bad he could be described as servebot, like Roger, but he is not one.

Del Potro servebot? :haha: His serve is not enough good. And the fact that he can grind and push dind´t make him a pusher. He is suffering an evolution similar to Berdych from brainless ballbasher to controled ballbashing.

Tipsarevic servebot? :haha: :wavey:

Gasquet? Well, he really push a lot since 2012, but I`m not sure.

Btw, a troll list if you don`t put Murray in that list. If Nadal and Ferrer are pusher for you, I don´t see why Murray is not describe also as a pusher :rolleyes:

Maybe because of your fanboyism? :rolleyes:

ADaddy69
04-01-2013, 03:39 AM
it bothers me to see players with recreational ground strokes make a ton of money because they can just serve bombs from a tree. And then they can go far because other players crumble in tb's.

I hope you aren't talking about the next great American John Isner. His two hander is up there with Murray and Djokovic.

Julián Santiago
04-01-2013, 03:42 AM
The most prestigious grass court tournament doesn't have proper grass courts. :rolleyes:

What?

Newport still has faster grass courts

:p

ADaddy69
04-01-2013, 03:52 AM
Djokovic a pusher? More a grinder btw. But I repeat, Have you ever seen the 2006-2010 Djokovic? No way you can call him a counterpuncher. Today he grinds a lot more, but he is not a counterpouncher and he`s not a pusher.

NAdal is not a pusher. Are you sick? Ferrer? Well, he is a marathonist, but he dictate the points with his forehand

Berdych servebots? He is a ballbasher, and really less agressive since 2009/2010. His serve is really erratic to become a servebot

Tsonga? A complete offensive player. When he is playing bad he could be described as servebot, like Roger, but he is not one.

Del Potro servebot? :haha: His serve is not enough good. And the fact that he can grind and push dind´t make him a pusher. He is suffering an evolution similar to Berdych from brainless ballbasher to controled ballbashing.

Tipsarevic servebot? :haha: :wavey:

Gasquet? Well, he really push a lot since 2012, but I`m not sure.

Btw, a troll list if you don`t put Murray in that list. If Nadal and Ferrer are pusher for you, I don´t see why Murray is not describe also as a pusher :rolleyes:

Maybe because of your fanboyism? :rolleyes:

I never really saw Djokovic from 06-10 because he always retired, but that's beside the point.

Verdasco is quoted as calling Nadal a pusher, Verdasco knows all.

And if you look at the top 10 ace leaders from last year, Tipsarevic, Berdych, Tsonga, and Del Po are all on it.

BackhandDTL
04-01-2013, 06:06 AM
Karlovic-Isner any day. At least their match wouldn't likely last long.

Dark Knight
04-01-2013, 06:15 AM
Karlovic-Isner any day. At least their match wouldn't likely last long.

Exactly. Though both Servebots and Pushers are terrible to watch..serve bots at least finish points quickly.

leng jai
04-01-2013, 06:21 AM
Servebots easily. "Pushers" are the epitome of time wasting, inefficiency and general nausea.

Jverweij
04-01-2013, 07:22 AM
servebots actually. I get the "atleast you would have alot of rallies argument", but both kinds of matches are boring, and the pushers' match lasts longer, which means more mental pain :lol: Also, I like how with servebots a break of serve at least means something

thegreendestiny
04-01-2013, 08:06 AM
Pushers. They have more grit. Servebots are mindless.

Ben D.
04-01-2013, 08:09 AM
Monfils vs Simon in Monte Carlo all the way, and its happening in 2 weeks man :banana: let's push forward :banana:
they are frenchmen after all :lol:

TBkeeper
04-01-2013, 08:35 AM
Between Servebots ... cause i don't know who is gonna win between Isner and Anderson.
But i know who's gonna win between Simon and Monfils.

Nixer
04-01-2013, 08:38 AM
Any match where both players represent those "extreme" styles is usually boring. But 2 pushers can become interesting if one is clearly worse in pushing than the other, and will play much more aggressively then normally. For example, Ferrer and Nadal (arguably good examples of pushers) are decent to watch when Ferrer pretty much always attacks, with Nadal defending and counter-punching.

Topspindoctor
04-01-2013, 09:43 AM
Serve bots are not even real players


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App (http://www.verticalsports.com/mobile)

blackwell
04-01-2013, 09:49 AM
Servebots like Karlovic are lesser evil than pushers like Nadull etc, because they at least play faster

Fat Camel
04-01-2013, 09:51 AM
Pushers can play tennis, Servbots can't.
That explains everything.

AncicCilic
04-01-2013, 10:09 AM
I personally have a rule that i don't mind any player style as long as the player is good at their style.

BackhandDTL
04-01-2013, 10:23 AM
Pushers can play tennis, Servbots can't.
That explains everything.

Except that it doesn't.

By most accounts, the serve is the most important shot in tennis. It starts every point in tennis. Practically speaking, groundstrokes are substitutional.

Quite the controversial assertion to say the least.

Pushers...Servebots are mindless.

Exactly how much thought do you think goes into the grand strategy of simply "getting the ball back"?

leng jai
04-01-2013, 10:26 AM
Servebots are just pushers with appalling movement most of the time.

BroTree123
04-01-2013, 10:37 AM
Servebots, because at least the match can end faster.

Nixer
04-01-2013, 10:41 AM
Servebots, because at least the match can end faster.

http://beyondthebets.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/isner-mahut-wimbledon10a.jpg

green25814
04-01-2013, 11:03 AM
Both are equally bad to watch.

However, watching a servebot play a pusher is very entertaining

Abel
04-01-2013, 11:08 AM
Proof that Murray is the only player who's not a push or servebot.

http://i.imgur.com/qwSHhHU.gif

BackhandDTL
04-01-2013, 11:09 AM
http://beyondthebets.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/isner-mahut-wimbledon10a.jpg


MTF: Where exceptions make rules.

Jverweij
04-01-2013, 11:29 AM
MTF: Where exceptions make rules.

exactly this. Just use whatever flawed argument suits your claim and ignore all other arguments.

BroTree123
04-01-2013, 11:46 AM
A big BIG exception.

Jverweij
04-01-2013, 01:12 PM
A big BIG exception.

irrelevant, it is only one exception. You know this

Nixer
04-01-2013, 01:19 PM
MTF: Where overreaction to jokes is normal even on April Fools'.

Fed fordawin
04-01-2013, 01:21 PM
Highly depends who they're playing against.
Servebots are insufferable against other servebots (raonic vs karlovic)
Pushers are insufferable against other pushers (nadal against djokovic)
But against an interesting player, servebots or pushers can offer entertaining matches.

Allez
04-01-2013, 01:23 PM
With Pete Sampras on the one end of the spectrum and Ferrer & Simon on the other...I'd have to go with servebots. Pushing is so mind numbingly dull it's almost criminal.

paseo
04-01-2013, 02:25 PM
This ADaddy69 shows some promise.

dencod16
04-01-2013, 02:57 PM
MTF: Where overreaction to jokes is normal even on April Fools'.

Isn't it like April fools here everyday.

Jverweij
04-01-2013, 05:46 PM
MTF: Where overreaction to jokes is normal even on April Fools'.

guilty :lol:

FleetSeb
04-01-2013, 06:57 PM
Pushing requires numerous skills and is actually tennis. Winning just from a serve is a benefit of being tall. Obviously it requires skill, but it is far less entertaining to watch. I like rallies.

3DGNumberOneFan
04-01-2013, 07:25 PM
Servebots

Mateya
04-01-2013, 08:01 PM
Pushers, or better said steady baseliners. ;)

Like FleetSeb said, pushing is at least displaying more tennis.

arm
04-01-2013, 08:03 PM
Pushers any day :hearts:

Blue Heart24
04-01-2013, 08:09 PM
Anyone who says servebots have "recreational" groundstrokes probably never held a tennis racket and their level of understanding the game is the same as Topspinmug's.

Smoke944
04-01-2013, 08:11 PM
Anyone who says servebots have "recreational" groundstrokes probably never held a tennis racket and their level of understanding the game is the same as Topspinmug's.

Yep. Totally clueless post.

The Prince
04-01-2013, 08:20 PM
I think pushers are better to watch, but I don't mind servebots when they net-rush, usually due to their ground game being awful (relative to the rest of the tour).

Ziggy B
04-02-2013, 12:13 AM
But you would also have to deal with plenty of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8iunyDh4ms

True, quite like Monfils but those sort of points are paint drying material. The point afterwards with the drop shot is hilarious for comparison purposes though :sport:

TigerTim
04-02-2013, 12:49 AM
pushers

sampras ruined tennis for a time

Henry Chinaski
04-02-2013, 12:55 AM
depends on the player and the match up.

take Karlovic for example. When you watch him you'll obviously get a lot of boring points but you'll also get a handful of stunning shoelace volleys and plenty of old-school chip that you basically don't see in tennis any more. On the other hand guys like Isner and Raonic give you absolutely nothing.

MrPlateperson
04-02-2013, 01:44 AM
Anyone who picked the third option is just a pure sadistic.

Kyle_Johansen
04-02-2013, 01:57 AM
Pushing requires numerous skills and is actually tennis. Winning just from a serve is a benefit of being tall. Obviously it requires skill, but it is far less entertaining to watch. I like rallies.

Being tall? Sampras has the best serve ever and he wasn't 6'10. Federer also has one of the best serves ever and has won thousands of big points from his first serve and he is 6'1.

There are no servebots and pushers on tour. Isner and Raonic have ground games. Ivo doesn't have a ground game but he was a force at the net and a good volleyer. I don't think anyone here knows what a pusher is. What those like Simon, Murray, and Monfils are, are counterpunchers.

MrPlateperson
04-02-2013, 02:06 AM
Being tall? Sampras has the best serve ever and he wasn't 6'10. Federer also has one of the best serves ever and has won thousands of big points from his first serve and he is 6'1.

There are no servebots and pushers on tour. Isner and Raonic have ground games. Ivo doesn't have a ground game but he was a force at the net and a good volleyer. I don't think anyone here knows what a pusher is. What those like Simon, Murray, and Monfils are, are counterpunchers.

:haha:

And counterpunching is just the nice word for pushing

Sombrerero loco
04-02-2013, 02:08 AM
i prefer pushers

BackhandDTL
04-02-2013, 03:42 AM
MTF: Where overreaction to jokes is normal even on April Fools'.

Please, some members here would use that same thing as a real argument.


MTF: Where Nothing is Off the Table


Also, where an overreaction is so much as challenging something.

atennisfan
04-02-2013, 04:22 AM
I prefer attacking player with complete shots.

It's the most enjoyable and entertaining tennis.

MrPlateperson
04-02-2013, 04:29 AM
I prefer attacking player with complete shots.

It's the most enjoyable and entertaining tennis.


So your favorite player is Novak? :p

ADaddy69
04-02-2013, 04:31 AM
So your faviroute player is Novak? :p

He said attacking players not that pushing mug.

MrPlateperson
04-02-2013, 04:39 AM
He said attacking players not that pushing mug.

:haha: A Mugray fan using derogatory words to describe a pusher. How ironic.

Nixer
04-02-2013, 05:04 AM
I prefer attacking player with complete shots.

It's the most enjoyable and entertaining tennis.

No shit? Well that's a new one. You opened everyone's eyes here in the thread. :rolleyes:

fede37
04-02-2013, 05:08 AM
Pushers !

August
04-02-2013, 07:56 AM
Servebots of course. Pushers are just waiting for the opponents' UEs, servebots aren't.

acionescu
04-02-2013, 07:58 AM
Definitely Simon-Monfils.

they are cuter :D

atennisfan
04-02-2013, 09:43 AM
So your favorite player is Novak? :p

I said attacking, not the Novak Pong Djokovic.

Topspindoctor
04-02-2013, 09:59 AM
He said attacking players not that pushing mug.

LOL Welcome back Corey Feldman :haha:

fedalrock
04-02-2013, 10:00 AM
Servebot matches end quicker:devil:

MrPlateperson
04-02-2013, 12:22 PM
I said attacking, not the Novak Pong Djokovic.

I know, hence why I added the ":p"

Kyle_Johansen
04-02-2013, 07:41 PM
:haha:

And counterpunching is just the nice word for pushing

So you call Djokovic, Murray, and Nadal pushers? Because I don't. They are counterpunchers.

arm
04-02-2013, 11:23 PM
Servebots of course. Pushers are just waiting for the opponents' UEs, servebots aren't.

Yes, you are right, much more interesting when servebots wait and pray for the opponent not to be able to get the ball back.

leng jai
04-02-2013, 11:28 PM
Yes, you are right, much more interesting when servebots wait and pray for the opponent not to be able to get the ball back.

Disinterested in both so the logical conclusion would be to prefer the one that finishes quickly.

arm
04-02-2013, 11:34 PM
Disinterested in both so the logical conclusion would be to prefer the one that finishes quickly.

When you're disinterested you don't watch, it doesn't matter if it last an hour or 3. ;)

leng jai
04-03-2013, 12:45 AM
When you're disinterested you don't watch, it doesn't matter if it last an hour or 3. ;)

That's not the OP's question mate/bro.

arm
04-03-2013, 01:00 AM
That's not the OP's question mate/bro.

And what's your answer to the OP, sister?

atennisfan
04-03-2013, 06:05 AM
Both serving-fest and pushing-fest are torture, so I choose the shorter torture: servebots that is.

Water torture is more enjoyable than another one of Murray-Nole matches.

vpmrosulate
04-03-2013, 06:13 AM
I do like a good ace once in a while, and I do curse a lot more when my favorite pushes than when he turns into a servebot (often for clutch moments). Still, I think both in long stretches would be equally bad. At least some good servers do have some ground game...

Nixer
04-03-2013, 06:20 AM
I do like a good ace once in a while, and I do curse a lot more when my favorite pushes than when he turns into a servebot (often for clutch moments). Still, I think both in long stretches would be equally bad. At least some good servers do have some ground game...

Lol, what? I'd say out of Isner/Karlovic/Anderson/Raonic/Lopez/Querrey/Muller only Anderson on a good day can outhit Simon/Monfils/Seppi on an average day.

vpmrosulate
04-03-2013, 06:56 AM
Lol, what? I'd say out of Isner/Karlovic/Anderson/Raonic/Lopez/Querrey/Muller only Anderson on a good day can outhit Simon/Monfils/Seppi on an average day.

I'm going to assume you mean outhit as in having more winners, not simply outlasting one's opponent in a rally. And I think that's debatable. However, that wasn't really what I was thinking of.

To clarify, I didn't quite mean good servers as in the best servers, just that the same factors (height, strength, whatever) that make for a decent serve can also be conducive to, say, ball-bashing, as with Delpo or maybe Soderling/Berdych. In addition to the physical aspects, the attacking mindset of a big server means he might be more aggressive with the rest of his game too. In general, I feel like players who have "variety" (from Federer to, say, Gulbis) are more likely to have a good serve than they are to push.

Okay, I just looked at the fastest serves via Wikipedia. Raonic, Roddick, Gulbis, Janowicz, Tsonga, Monfils :lol:, Murray, Soderling, Berdych, Baghdatis, Federer, Wawrinka, and del Potro (and lots of others obviously) have all served over 140mph. I know speed isn't the only thing to the serve, but I still think this shows "good server" is not always the same thing as "all-serve."

In other words, I was straying from the OP when I said some good servers have ground game. I guess I was thinking about the times my favorite resorts to serve-bot mode when he needs to... but I couldn't really classify him as a serve bot.

Vinceremo
04-03-2013, 08:12 PM
I can't believe the name 'Seppi' is being brought up in a discussion about servebots and pushers :facepalm: whatever, I guess, but go check those eyes for God's sake.

As to the question, I tend to find it much more tolerable to watch a 'pusher' play, yet again there are some players who I would never consider pushers and are often labeled like that in here. plus there's always exceptions, take Ivo as an example, he would be often considered a servebot but I really enjoy his matches and his 'always go forward' style. rarely get bored in his matches tbh... while, on the other hand, Isner bores me to death despite having better groundstrokes and resources to survive in longer exchanges. varies a lot between player to player.

MrPlateperson
04-04-2013, 03:02 AM
Technically speaking no proffesional tennis player can be called a pusher.

Mr. Oracle
04-04-2013, 03:59 AM
It's hard to watch any player with a grossly incomplete game. I can't remember who Viktor Trotsky was playing a year or two ago when they were both raising the bar for pushing to new heights by hitting the ball center/mid court, over and over again. I remembered feeling so much anxiety and pain and reached for my stress ball and started squeezing it like a skilled dairy farmer with kung-fu like grip on the teat of a Holstein cow. True story. So I guess servebots do not make feel as bad.

johnny tsunami
04-04-2013, 06:29 AM
So you call Djokovic, Murray, and Nadal pushers? Because I don't. They are counterpunchers.

counterpunching what? the opponents weaker groundstrokes? djokovic at least is an aggressive baseliner. Each of them, because of their amazing defense, end up grinding when they face each other (and federer) or overly aggressive players.

MuzzahLovah
04-04-2013, 08:58 AM
anything>servebots

MuzzahLovah
04-04-2013, 09:08 AM
Servebot matches end quicker:devil:

Not necessarily. See Isner Mahut at Wimbledon and Raonic Tsonga at the Olympics.

In fact, since servebot suck so much a breaking, servebot vs servebot can very easily go the maximum number of games even where one is clearly better than the other, where as if one pusher is superior than the other, there will be more lopsided sets and a chance for the match ending more quickly.

heya
04-04-2013, 11:14 AM
Servebots don't make Slam winners jealous.
Fedfans either want a choker who rushes the net or a ballbashing clown with poor fitness & quick losses to Fed.

Pusher is a name to diminish what many superior players did to Federer.
Just like a music note, a diminished chord is a good thing to the ears. A flat note alone is dead to music.

Mr. Oracle
04-04-2013, 11:15 PM
Servebots don't make Slam winners jealous.
Fedfans either want a choker who rushes the net or a ballbashing clown with poor fitness & quick losses to Fed.

Pusher is a name to diminish what many superior players did to Federer.
Just like a music note, a diminished chord is a good thing to the ears. A flat note alone is dead to music.

I've often wondered who coined these terms, now I know. Powerful analogies as usual General Heya. You always help me understand things better. You're research going back 15 years is both thorough and unbiased.

Murray=God
07-28-2013, 11:59 PM
Thought I'd bump this after that dreadful Atlanta final. They are both so :smash: but that match swung it towards pushathons as producing the more "entertaining" matches for me.

ProdigyEng
07-29-2013, 12:20 AM
So called 'pushers' Murray and Djokovic have a 3hourish epic match in Shanghai, and then so called 'servebots' Isner and Anderson have a pathetic 3hourish match in Atlanta, both bo3... yep.

'Pushers' > 'Servebots'

Htom Sirveaux
07-29-2013, 12:55 AM
If it's true pushers vs servebots, I don't think I could choose one. Both put me to sleep. I suppose I'm more likely to give pushers a chance, especially if it's a late round match; it's possible that a pusher will elevate his game and actually play attractive tennis while most servebots are basically physically incapable of playing attractive tennis. The exception to this is when one of the big four are involved. They ALWAYS destroy pushers, but watching them try to figure out a servebot can be pretty entertaining (ie, Djokovic-Isner at IW 2012).

But if you're including grinders/dirtballers like Ferrer and Robredo in there, then I'd absolutely take the 'pushers'. I love the tactical battles you get with patient rallying so long as the patience is in service of actually trying to gain an advantage rather than simply hoping for an error from the opponent or causing fatigue.

rocketassist
07-29-2013, 12:58 AM
If it's true pushers vs servebots, I don't think I could choose one. Both put me to sleep. I suppose I'm more likely to give pushers a chance, especially if it's a late round match; it's possible that a pusher will elevate his game and actually play attractive tennis while most servebots are basically physically incapable of playing attractive tennis. The exception to this is when one of the big four are involved. They ALWAYS destroy pushers, but watching them try to figure out a servebot can be pretty entertaining (ie, Djokovic-Isner at IW 2012).

But if you're including grinders/dirtballers like Ferrer and Robredo in there, then I'd absolutely take the 'pushers'. I love the tactical battles you get with patient rallying so long as the patience is in service of actually trying to gain an advantage rather than simply hoping for an error from the opponent or causing fatigue.

One match-up where a pusher type player has caused a top 4 guy problems in the past is Simon vs Federer.

I wouldn't say either of the two grinders you mentioned were great tacticians, but Simon another with limited weaponry definitely has some smart tactical acumen.

Serverer
07-29-2013, 01:00 AM
So called 'pushers' Murray and Djokovic have a 3hourish epic match in Shanghai, and then so called 'servebots' Isner and Anderson have a pathetic 3hourish match in Atlanta, both bo3... yep.

'Pushers' > 'Servebots'

Boo-hoo, two serve bots made it to an ATP final. how often does that happen?
Pushers are everywhere and impossible to ignore

Slade
07-29-2013, 01:02 AM
Probably pushers

hvo
07-29-2013, 01:29 AM
Yeah, what a dreadful Atlanta final, I bored me to tear. I sat there infront of the TV whishing someone just hit a rally with some varieties.

Htom Sirveaux
07-29-2013, 04:07 AM
One match-up where a pusher type player has caused a top 4 guy problems in the past is Simon vs Federer.

I wouldn't say either of the two grinders you mentioned were great tacticians, but Simon another with limited weaponry definitely has some smart tactical acumen.

Simon's something of a split personality pusher/counterpuncher though. He's godawful to watch (and usually a pushover) when he pushes against a top player, such as when he played Federer in Rome, but he can be dangerous when he has the right conditions and mentality. I always give his matches against a top player a shot, and I wouldn't do that if he was capable of nothing but pushing.

And I'll acknowledge that grinders aren't capable of the tactical displays that you get from all-courters and some especially talented baseliners. Grinders do however engage in lots of movement and shot placement battles that I find satisfying to watch, especially when they're going up against a contrasting style. A grinder is certainly using more tactics than what you see from a typical servebot or ballbasher, not to mention the pushers who they're sometimes confused with.

vpmrosulate
07-29-2013, 04:14 AM
A servebot playing a great returner could be fun. One-sided, but still of some interest.

hvo
07-29-2013, 05:18 AM
A servebot playing a great returner could be fun. One-sided, but still of some interest.

Raonic-Murray US 12, an example. Ball low, low and down low.

zjtennis
07-29-2013, 05:24 AM
Well, I would rather have "pushers" than "servebots" (if "pushers" that waits 10+ shots to execute a winner and the "servebots" have no groundgame), because at least it elicits a little drama whether a "pusher's" move would work or not and could he counter and such.

jammeblunt
07-29-2013, 06:23 AM
"pushers". I feel hopeless watching servebots playing each other. almost monotone.

VamosRafaNadal
07-29-2013, 03:11 PM
Pushers, at least their game is more interesting.

Rychu
07-29-2013, 03:18 PM
Servebots with variety like Janowicz, yes. Isner? Dear God...

Ilovetheblues_86
07-29-2013, 03:31 PM
Guccione-De Schepper in Bogota or Soeda-Devvarman in Atlanta?

I think I prefer Soeda-Devvarman, but I dont like pushers inside top 10. :o

JoWilly
07-29-2013, 03:32 PM
This thread proves that some people here no nothing about tennis. Djokovic is a pusher? Yep, that's why he is in the top 3 players that hit the most winners, along with Tsonga and Federer. Is there no end to people's stupidity, or is it just trolling?

rocketassist
07-29-2013, 03:35 PM
This thread proves that some people here no nothing about tennis. Djokovic is a pusher? Yep, that's why he is in the top 3 players that hit the most winners, along with Tsonga and Federer. Is there no end to people's stupidity, or is it just trolling?

I highly doubt any of those three are in the top 3 'winner count' for the year, simply because they don't play every week. It's likely to be 3 low ranked guys.

GSMnadal
07-29-2013, 03:42 PM
Guccione-De Schepper in Bogota or Soeda-Devvarman in Atlanta?

I think I prefer Soeda-Devvarman, but I dont like pushers inside top 10. :o

I think I prefer having my eyes removed instead of having to watch one of those matches

TropicalSunset
07-29-2013, 03:45 PM
When playing with servebots the matches are usually unpredictable. That's it

ProdigyEng
07-29-2013, 03:57 PM
This thread proves that some people here no nothing about tennis. Djokovic is a pusher? Yep, that's why he is in the top 3 players that hit the most winners, along with Tsonga and Federer. Is there no end to people's stupidity, or is it just trolling?

If you were referring to my post, re read it, I said 'SO CALLED PUSHERS', not claiming he is or is not a pusher.

madmax
07-29-2013, 04:21 PM
Servebots with variety like Janowicz, yes. Isner? Dear God...

:haha:

Unforced Terror
07-29-2013, 04:24 PM
I prefer pushers, because it's great seeing them getting dismantled by ballbashers or talentedshotmakers. Pusher-pusher match up is intolerable though.

Servebots on the other hand always lower the quality of the match :o It's not real tennis when the rally doesn't exceed 3.

Guccione-De Schepper in Bogota or Soeda-Devvarman in Atlanta?

I think I prefer Soeda-Devvarman, but I dont like pushers inside top 10. :o

:spit: Soeda's not a pusher, he hits 20+ UEs per match

tenniz
07-29-2013, 04:27 PM
pusher over a servebot, but marginally.

Ivelina_P
07-29-2013, 04:41 PM
Servebot playing a Pusher

JoWilly
07-29-2013, 05:05 PM
If you were referring to my post, re read it, I said 'SO CALLED PUSHERS', not claiming he is or is not a pusher.

I wasn't referring to your post :) Just some of the earlier posts. I find people calling Djoker and Murray pushers annoying. I do think Murray has been guilty of this in the past, but he steps in to hit winners quite a lot these days.

Hans Anders
07-29-2013, 06:39 PM
Servebots with variety like Janowicz, yes. Isner? Dear God...

If there's variety, then it's not a servebot. The essence of a bot is that they can just do one thing.

Kyle_Johansen
07-29-2013, 06:45 PM
What about servebots who push?

rob_z
07-29-2013, 07:25 PM
Pushing is an underestimated ability. It requires not just speed, but also excuisite timing, pace and control with backhand and forehand. And also athletisism, confiddnce and self believe. It is incredibly difficult to get some balls back into the court from defensive positions, let alone to score a direct winner. It is a quaulity thatmany dont understand here on MTF .
It is a more difficult part of the game than serving.

Beesley
07-29-2013, 07:26 PM
Simon v Murray any day.