A nice look at Haas's career and Federer's troubled generation [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

A nice look at Haas's career and Federer's troubled generation

Nole fan
03-25-2013, 09:50 PM
Tommy Haas vs. Novak Djokovic Is Inspiring Story from Roger Federer's Generation
BY JEREMY ECKSTEIN

Tommy Haas dismantled young, talented Alexandr Dolgopolov 6-3, 6-2, to advance to the fourth round of the Sony Ericsson Open, where he will take on world No. 1 Novak Djokovic. The match will be an intriguing look at two talented tennis players with very different careers.

Tennis fans who live on Planet Earth already know Djokovic's story, but Haas hearkens from the early days of Roger Federer's talented, but troubled, generation.

Haas's tennis career never turned out the way he had planned. The talented German, who once trained at Nick Bollettieri’s famed academy for young rising stars, will be 35 years old next week. He once battled champions like Pete Sampras and rose to No. 2 in the rankings, but can only look forward without a storybook career of Grand Slam titles.

There is still rugged beauty in the way Haas hits his big single backhand or picks his moments to come to the net and flash the skills that showed so much promise. His flashy youthfulness is gone, and he now sports shorter dark hair and scruffy elegance in place of the long locks and backward baseball cap that were so much a part of his former image.

But there is still so much aura about the way Haas has persevered, like a legendary Teutonic knight who has survived battles and wounds that would have killed an ordinary warrior. He has tasted star potential, big matches, tragedy, injuries and a journeyman’s comeback.

There were times he could have walked away from tennis, and no one would have faulted him, but he plays on with his own frame of perspective and peace. Last June, Haas told the AP, via ESPN, that "I hope the body holds up for many years to go. I love to play."


Rising Star

Haas was unique from the other young players of his lost generation. He didn’t have Andy Roddick’s serve or Lleyton Hewitt’s speed, but his all-court skills were magnificent, eventually producing titles on all three surfaces.

He could adapt and strategize his game to attack all varieties of opponents and their weaknesses. Marat Safin said his backhand was one of the best in the game. He played in a strong and graceful way, and it was believed that once he had developed greater consistency and experience, he might become one of the greats of his time.
Early on, Haas showed a bit of a temper, though hardly comparable to Safin and his mercurial success. Another one of his contemporaries, Roger Federer, also struggled to gain control of his emotions and talents. They were a competitive lot who wanted to grab the post-Pete Sampras era by the tail and create their own great destinies. Tennis fans admired their grit.

By 2002, Haas rose to No. 2 in the ATP Rankings. At Rome, he destroyed Andy Roddick, who said (via the New York Times) that he had not been dominated that easily since childhood. Haas was also a two-time Australian Open semifinalist and looked ready to win Grand Slam championships.


Fates and Furies

Life and tennis are inseparable, and nobody wins without a strong support system. There are primeval forces swirling through young careers with all manner of potential destruction: fame, wealth, temptation, success and failure. Oftentimes, a player’s flowering talent can be contingent on timing.

In June 2002, Haas’s parents were in a serious motorcycle accident. The experience shook him up, according to Selena Roberts of the New York Times, who wrote a stirring article shortly after the tragedy. It's a haunting time capsule that shows Haas’s life shift forever, and, as it would turn out, become a pattern of adversity that would plague his career.

He took time off from the tour to help his parents. He came back out-of-form and immediately hurt his right shoulder. He would never be quite the same. Operations and injuries, every player’s greatest fears, would ravage his consistency and all but undermine his opportunity to become a star.
By mid-decade, Federer had taken over the tour and all but obliterated the other injury-ravished or flawed members of his generation. Former No. 1 Juan Carlos Ferrero couldn't regain his form. Even the beleaguered David Nalbandian and once-promising Xavier Malisse would find their careers more wayward and unfulfilled. Harsh reality rarely lends a helping hand.

The past decade has seen Haas’ ranking rise and fall with seismographic peaks and valleys. He missed significant action in 2008 and 2011, dropping out of the rankings altogether. He also reminded the ATP of his talent with Grand Slam semifinals at Australia 2007 and Wimbledon 2009. Retirement was always imminent, and by 2012, he was forgotten to all but tennis dilettantes.

How would it be to be Tommy Haas?

His dreams of stardom would never pan out, and this may have been much more difficult than the typical journeyman who knew that he was never top-flight talent. Does he look around and wonder if he could have been handling the likes of Federer, Nadal and Djokovic? How close he was to his tennis dreams, only to see them vanish before they ever had a chance.


Swan Song

Though all comparisons to compatriots Boris Becker and Steffi Graf were long vanished, Haas continued to yo-yo between injuries and testing his broken body with professional tennis. He opened January 2012 ranked No. 205. He was approaching his mid-30s, was recently married and had a one-year-old daughter. Haas kept playing.

Then in June, with tennis’s fabled stage on grass, Haas reached back into the past and found more magic. He defeated Federer to win the Halle title. "It's my 13th title...It's probably up there (as the best), if not the sweetest one, especially considering the injuries," Haas reflected through the AP via ESPN.

Even Federer (same article) graciously recognized the achievement from his contemporary and friend: I'm just really happy for him ... happy that he's been able to fight off so many injuries and come back and still believe in himself, still want to travel, still want to sacrifice his family (life) too.

Haas was named comeback player of 2012. He is currently ranked No. 18 in the world, and perhaps, singing his swan song. Age and injuries are uncompromising foes, and at some point, he will wake up and know that his body can no longer compete in professional tennis against younger, stronger generations.

He never became the star many thought he would become, but he was never really a journeyman either, even if he had to suffer through so many of the vicissitudes of fate and career. He was not always able to participate, but his mind and heart were with tennis, and he patiently capitalized on the opportunities he had rather than belabor the moments that could have been.
There is inspiration in Haas’ tennis. He may or may not defeat Djokovic, the world's best player. It's uncertain how many more magical moments he has, but he is a credit to the difficulties and sacrifices in a tennis pro’s dedicated career.

Long after tennis, Haas will be remembered.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1578484-tommy-haas-vs-novak-djokovic-is-inspiring-story-from-roger-federers-generation?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=tennis

ProdigyEng
03-25-2013, 09:56 PM
Bleacherreport :spit:

Nole Rules
03-25-2013, 10:04 PM
Haas's story is really sad. The guy had so much potential.

Pirata.
03-25-2013, 10:07 PM
Bleacherreport :spit:

It's actually quite a nice article, in comparison to some of the other garbage that gets written thre.

ProdigyEng
03-25-2013, 10:14 PM
It's actually quite a nice article, in comparison to some of the other garbage that gets written thre.

Yes it was a good article.

janko05
03-25-2013, 10:20 PM
Good article Nole fan :yeah:
Please refrain ourselves from labeling that ear weak. Thanks.

Nole fan
03-25-2013, 10:25 PM
I hope Leng Jai is proud of me. :awww:

Lugburz
03-25-2013, 10:29 PM
Good read, shame they are giving him credit this late. Same as Mtf posters.

Allez
03-25-2013, 10:37 PM
Great article. Poor Haas. Terrible.

Orka_n
03-25-2013, 10:39 PM
Good read, shame they are giving him credit this late. Same as Mtf posters.Perhaps but better late than never imo.

Haas is a great talent but was plagued by bad luck.
It's tragic, but there are so many cases like that... Baker, Ancic, Grosjean, Enqvist... :sad:

leng jai
03-25-2013, 10:43 PM
I hope Leng Jai is proud of me. :awww:

Nole forum.

Allez
03-25-2013, 10:44 PM
Grosjean ? Baker? Were either one GS material? Ancic might have won Wimbledon some day. Love his game.

Lugburz
03-25-2013, 10:45 PM
Perhaps but better late than never imo.

Haas is a great talent but was plagued by bad luck.
It's tragic, but there are so many cases like that... Baker, Ancic, Grosjean, Enqvist... :sad:

exactly, but they were under radar as well, because of this so called 'top guns' :rolleyes:

Burrow
03-25-2013, 10:48 PM
Grosjean ? Baker? Were either one GS material? Ancic might have won Wimbledon some day. Love his game.

Ancic had absolutely no chance of winning Wimbledon the way he was heading with his over-exaggerated strokes, movement and even service motion.

atennisfan
03-25-2013, 10:48 PM
Good article Nole fan :yeah:
Please refrain ourselves from labeling that ear weak. Thanks.

I don't understand the weak-strong era debate. I've only been playing with the argument to show how ridiculous it is.

Only insecure people think that Fed's era (strong or weak) affect Nole's achievements in any way.

Kyle_Johansen
03-25-2013, 10:51 PM
I love watching Tommy play and it really is unreal what he's done in the past year.

janko05
03-25-2013, 10:53 PM
I don't understand the weak-strong era debate. I've only been playing with the argument to show how ridiculous it is.

Only insecure people think that Fed's era (strong or weak) affect Nole's achievements in any way.

fair enough

BauerAlmeida
03-25-2013, 11:19 PM
Haas would have probably won AO 2002 if he had beaten Safin. That was by far his biggest shot at a Grand Slam.

Perhaps but better late than never imo.

Haas is a great talent but was plagued by bad luck.
It's tragic, but there are so many cases like that... Baker, Ancic, Grosjean, Enqvist... :sad:

And your countryman Joachim Johansson

Lugburz
03-25-2013, 11:32 PM
Haas would have probably won AO 2002 if he had beaten Safin. That was by far his biggest shot at a Grand Slam.



most likely, also USO 2006.

Also, people often forget he has a silver medal at Olympics.

leng jai
03-25-2013, 11:35 PM
most likely, also USO 2006.

Also, people often forget he has a silver medal at Olympics.

What, no. He would have had to beat prime Federer to win that USO.

Wimbledon 2009 was a better chance since Federer was nowhere near as good and he would have had a great chance of beating Roddick in the final. AO 2006 as well had he somehow pulled out the fifth set against Federer. USO 2002 was the other big chance he had before his injury hit going in as the second seed and losing a tight match to Sampras.

MathMul
03-25-2013, 11:39 PM
Haas :worship:

STUHL
03-25-2013, 11:47 PM
It would be so sweet if Tommy could somehow win the Match tomorrow. Tommy deserves a few more great wins in his Career. :worship:

Newcomer
03-25-2013, 11:52 PM
Three words for his career: Australia, rain, Safin.

Lugburz
03-26-2013, 12:15 AM
What, no. He would have had to beat prime Federer to win that USO.

Wimbledon 2009 was a better chance since Federer was nowhere near as good and he would have had a great chance of beating Roddick in the final. AO 2006 as well had he somehow pulled out the fifth set against Federer. USO 2002 was the other big chance he had before his injury hit going in as the second seed and losing a tight match to Sampras.

true about Fed, but he was struggling with Blake. I guess I was way too excited after great match in 4th Round vs Safin, so I thought anything is possible :p

You're right about W2009 though, I really thought he could pull off Ivanišević...

Kyle_Johansen
03-26-2013, 12:43 AM
Haas was never going to beat Roger on that day at Wimbledon - Fed was too sublime.

And Fed wasn't really struggling with Blake at that USO. It was close but he did bagel Blake in the 2nd set.

Honestly
03-26-2013, 12:50 AM
No surprise. Legend from a legend era still owning the young guns from this weak ass era.

Alex999
03-26-2013, 02:50 AM
Good read, shame they are giving him credit this late. Same as Mtf posters.
When I think about Tommy ... his technique is just still out of this world. yes, he hasn't won a major, but that's more because of his mentality more than anything else. This article is pretty good. It does reflect who Haas is.

I'd say, if you wanted to learn how to play tennis watch Tommy, you can learn a lot. Again, his technique is absolutely amazing.

Alex999
03-26-2013, 02:56 AM
It would be so sweet if Tommy could somehow win the Match tomorrow. Tommy deserves a few more great wins in his Career. :worship:
to be honest with you, I wouldn't mind it at all (as a Nole fan). I doubt it will happen because Djokovis is too fast, but really looking forward to this match.

leng jai
03-26-2013, 03:20 AM
My dream in life is for Hass to take a set off Rafito.

Saberq
03-26-2013, 03:24 AM
to be honest with you, I wouldn't mind it at all (as a Nole fan). I doubt it will happen because Djokovis is too fast, but really looking forward to this match.

I would mind it.......Haas was and always will be overrated because he was one of the decent guys in Fed's prime.......

Kyle_Johansen
03-26-2013, 04:25 AM
I would mind it.......Haas was and always will be overrated because he was one of the decent guys in Fed's prime.......

Think it's the opposite way around for you folks. All of Fed's opponents were mugs that didn't do anything.

bouncer7
03-26-2013, 06:02 AM
Think it's the opposite way around for you folks. All of Fed's opponents were mugs that didn't do anything.
Not for him, he is fedtard too.

As you see most of fedtards like to connect Haas with fedmug era. But Haas never was top10 during 5 years of fedmug era 03-07. He only one year finished as top20.

I mean, just see clueless tard bellow, living in reality is not option for him. Do you want to be like him in 5-10 year, young man. You are choosing your own ways Kyle. Think about it.

No surprise. Legend from a legend era still owning the young guns from this weak ass era.

Dougie
03-26-2013, 06:12 AM
It´s great that Haas is still playing and getting good results.One of the most stylish players ever, and he´s had teriblle luck with the injuries. But it has to be said that his unfulfilled potential is not all about the injuries, he did choke his way out of some great chances, and with a bit more stable mentality probably would have given himself a few more chances to play for the GS titles. But still, a great player, great that he is still around.

Kyle_Johansen
03-26-2013, 06:45 AM
Haas is a Fed 2001-2007 era guy regardless of what his ranking was in 2003-2007, in which he was injured and depleted often.

bouncer7
03-26-2013, 06:51 AM
FedEra 2001-2003 :)
and this is era of Nishikori and Tipsarevic

leng jai
03-26-2013, 07:39 AM
Hass transcends the notion of era having demolished the likes of Courier, Agassi, Sampras, Safin, Hewitt, Roddick, Federer, Murray, Djokovic and Tomic.

Topspindoctor
03-26-2013, 07:42 AM
Hass transcends the notion of era having demolished the likes of Courier, Agassi, Sampras, Safin, Hewitt, Roddick, Federer, Murray, Djokovic and Tomic.

:superlol:

atennisfan
03-26-2013, 08:28 AM
FedEra 2001-2003 :)
and this is era of Nishikori and Tipsarevic

Not 2001-2002, but in 2003 Fed won Wimbledon and YEC among other titles.

So you seem certain that Nishikori and Tipsarevic will win either one of RG, Wimby, or USO AND WTF?

:rolls:

Navratil
03-26-2013, 08:30 AM
Haas's story is really sad. The guy had so much potential.

'cause he has only been # 2??

:sad:

ossie
03-26-2013, 08:35 AM
Weak era mug doesn't have what it takes to stay competitive in this day and age, it's only a matter of time before he is forgotten.

atennisfan
03-26-2013, 08:43 AM
Weak era mug doesn't have what it takes to stay competitive in this day and age, it's only a matter of time before he is forgotten.

Only a moron does not know Haas is 35 yo.

Shinoj
03-26-2013, 09:20 AM
In Hindsight, there are so many players who got run over by Roger federer or perhaps didnt have the spark or the Fire in themselves?

Orka_n
03-26-2013, 10:00 AM
Weak era mug doesn't have what it takes to stay competitive in this day and age, it's only a matter of time before he is forgotten.About time ossie posted something really retarded. I was agreeing with a few of his posts lately, that had me a little worried. Thanks mate

MariaV
03-26-2013, 10:41 AM
It's actually quite a nice article, in comparison to some of the other garbage that gets written thre.

Indeed.
LOL I don't want to become a notalgia-tard. :tape: :help:

Orka_n
03-26-2013, 10:52 AM
In Hindsight, there are so many players who got run over by Roger federer or perhaps didnt have the spark or the Fire in themselves?This cannot be stressed enough actually. People are calling Nadal, Djoker and Murray "Fed's biggest rivals" but in actuality, Fed played Roddick, Haas, Safin, Hewitt, Gonzalez (players of his own generation) countless times as well. Yet, those players aren't called his rivals by the MTF tards for the sole reason that Federer completely owned these guys. Roddick for example would surely have won more slams and perhaps become an acknowledged great of the game if not for Federer.

Now, some of the Nadal/Nole/Murray-tards interpret Federer's dominance as a lack of tough competition. Which of course is about as true as a Lance Armstrong statement. Many times during 04-07, a player who was red hot could cruise through a tournament playing great tennis - only to run into Federer and get a beatdown (example: Gonzo AO07). Roger's versatility, power and aura of invincibility was no joke.
Agassi [comparing Fed to Sampras]: "With Roger, there was no place on the court you could go to to feel safe."

Nowadays however, if a player is red hot, Fed often cannot produce the tennis or the intensity needed to fight that player down. And I'm talking about guys like Benneteau here who Fed used to beat easily, not the top 4. So to say that Roger has barely declined is laughable.

In Federer's prime, only Nadal could hang with him and that was due to having a playing style that happened to play right into Roger's one slight weakness: high balls on the backhand side. But Nadal still only ever dominated him on clay. All other playing styles, Roger could handle. Compared to now, Peak Fed had a more powerful forehand but he still hangs around the top because he retains his natural talent and even after 30 he can show flashes of brilliance and improvise shots not seen before.

Crap, I feel like Lenders writing posts this long ranting on and on.

RIboy
03-26-2013, 11:09 AM
Agassi [comparing Fed to Sampras]: "With Roger, there was no place on the court you could go to to feel safe."


Nadal [comparing Djokovic to Fed]: "With Djokovic, there was no place on the court you could go to to feel safe, no?"

Abel
03-26-2013, 11:20 AM
What slam do people think Haas possibly could/should have won?

USO 2001 maybe? If he'd managed to have got past Hewitt.

RIboy
03-26-2013, 11:22 AM
What slam do people think Haas possibly could/should have won?

USO 2001 maybe? If he'd managed to have got past Hewitt.

RG 2009

Abel
03-26-2013, 11:31 AM
RG 2009

Del GOATro would have stopped him if he'd beaten Federer :devil:

ogbg
03-26-2013, 12:51 PM
I don't understand the weak-strong era debate. I've only been playing with the argument to show how ridiculous it is.

Only insecure people think that Fed's era (strong or weak) affect Nole's achievements in any way.

What don't you understand about it? It seems like an incredibly simple concept to me.

Saberq
03-26-2013, 01:02 PM
Not for him, he is fedtard too.

As you see most of fedtards like to connect Haas with fedmug era. But Haas never was top10 during 5 years of fedmug era 03-07. He only one year finished as top20.

I mean, just see clueless tard bellow, living in reality is not option for him. Do you want to be like him in 5-10 year, young man. You are choosing your own ways Kyle. Think about it.

this is the second time you called me a Fedtard you mug........

paseo
03-26-2013, 03:17 PM
this is the second time you called me a Fedtard you mug........

haha...

Saberq is a FedTard.... Saberq is a FedTard.... Na, na, na...:banana:

Topspindoctor
03-26-2013, 03:22 PM
What slam do people think Haas possibly could/should have won?


Mixed doubles Wimbledon if Steffi Graf came out of retirement and carried him to the title.




Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App (http://www.verticalsports.com/mobile)

leng jai
03-26-2013, 08:39 PM
Tdoc giving Hass threads a lot of love lately :hearts:

stewietennis
03-26-2013, 10:55 PM
Do you think some of Haas' futility in closing matches against Federer comes from being his hitting partner (in the past I mean, during his close matches at the AO and FO)?

BackhandDTL
03-26-2013, 11:23 PM
Do you think some of Haas' futility in closing matches against Federer comes from being his hitting partner (in the past I mean, during his close matches at the AO and FO)?

Does he demonstrate futility in closing matches against Fed? Of their three in majors, the '02 AO match went Haas' way after a fiery performance. On the other hand, that famous inside-out forehand down BP from Fed seemed to make the difference in RG '09, and Haas is certainly not an exclusive victim to that type of clutch shot-making from Roger.

It might however explain those few walk-overs he gave Fed in '07-'08, most notably for his stuffy nose.

Maybe he wasn't ready for SudaFed?

Pipsy
03-26-2013, 11:37 PM
I think a lot of people here are too embroiled by the whole weak era/strong era debate that they're missing what makes Haas such a great player. He has missed an entire year on the tour twice in his career. I'm pretty sure that's unparallelled in the men's game. This guy lost his world ranking twice and has been quoted as saying he regards his current comeback as his "third career".

"1st" career singles high: #2 [2002]
"2nd" career singles high: #9 [2007]
"3rd" career singles high: #18 [2013]

And he is likely to move back into the top 16 when the rankings come out on Monday. I'm sure I'm not alone in regarding this as phenomenal, especially given his age and how other former top 10 players have struggled having been out of the game for a long time and losing their rankings. I suppose it is credit to the combination of finesse and brute force required for his style of play now regarded unfashionable by coaches of the new generation, his doggedness at not giving up even when he was languishing outside the top 100 and people were saying he was done, and his love of playing and winning at the highest level.

I remember how I looked forward to his early matches after returning in 2011 with trepidation, as I feared he would not be able to mix it up with the younger guys having spent so long away. Credit to Tommy for continuing to try and better himself at the highest levels of the game.

Howard
03-27-2013, 12:38 AM
This cannot be stressed enough actually. People are calling Nadal, Djoker and Murray "Fed's biggest rivals" but in actuality, Fed played Roddick, Haas, Safin, Hewitt, Gonzalez (players of his own generation) countless times as well. Yet, those players aren't called his rivals by the MTF tards for the sole reason that Federer completely owned these guys. Roddick for example would surely have won more slams and perhaps become an acknowledged great of the game if not for Federer...
What the hell is this? An intelligent, well-expressed post at MTF? Clearly, I'm in the wrong message board.

Kyle_Johansen
03-27-2013, 01:00 AM
What the hell is this? An intelligent, well-expressed post at MTF? Clearly, I'm in the wrong message board.

Indeed you are.

leng jai
03-27-2013, 01:07 AM
I think a lot of people here are too embroiled by the whole weak era/strong era debate that they're missing what makes Haas such a great player. He has missed an entire year on the tour twice in his career. I'm pretty sure that's unparallelled in the men's game. This guy lost his world ranking twice and has been quoted as saying he regards his current comeback as his "third career".

"1st" career singles high: #2 [2002]
"2nd" career singles high: #9 [2007]
"3rd" career singles high: #18 [2013]

And he is likely to move back into the top 16 when the rankings come out on Monday. I'm sure I'm not alone in regarding this as phenomenal, especially given his age and how other former top 10 players have struggled having been out of the game for a long time and losing their rankings. I suppose it is credit to the combination of finesse and brute force required for his style of play now regarded unfashionable by coaches of the new generation, his doggedness at not giving up even when he was languishing outside the top 100 and people were saying he was done, and his love of playing and winning at the highest level.

I remember how I looked forward to his early matches after returning in 2011 with trepidation, as I feared he would not be able to mix it up with the younger guys having spent so long away. Credit to Tommy for continuing to try and better himself at the highest levels of the game.

To put it in perspective Haas' career and the fact he is the first person ever to win Comeback Player of the year twice is a more impressive feat than had he had been a healthy player who simply won a slam and not much else (ala Gaudio and Tojo).

BackhandDTL
03-27-2013, 01:09 AM
What the hell is this? An intelligent, well-expressed post at MTF? Clearly, I'm in the wrong message board.

Nope, no, wait...

Roddick whined like a spoiled baby after playing poorly and reaching finals in the weak Fed era.
He choked badly the last 7 years just like the other slow & stiff "top 10 players". It didn't help that he was too embarrassed to admit he got the unfortunate genetics of a fat & irritating overprivileged mama's boy. He badmouthed Djoker because he knew Djoker had legendary talent & superior comedic talent off court while at the same time Djoker had the ability to recover from illness & injury (when there was a decline in tennis level between 2003-2009, Fed & Roddick cried and lost each time they had an ache).
At least Djoker & Nadal don't apologize for Federer's losses, unlike Roddick. LOLOLOL

I think you're in the right place.

Mountaindewslave
03-27-2013, 01:11 AM
Good read, shame they are giving him credit this late. Same as Mtf posters.

how much credit do you think Haas deserves?
I love him as a player and personality, and his daughter is adorable
but there is a huge physical aspect to the sport
some bad luck yeah
but Haas was never in incredible shape earlier in his career, he didn't train enough
mega talented and unlucky
but injuries are the sport
I could count so many names/fingers off my hand of how many players had bad 'luck' and got injuries
I do love Tommy's game and hope to see him around much longer but no one knows what he would have achieved had he been healthy his career, and while it would have been more than he has, it's all speculation
Tommy has had a nice career and some ill fortune but there are many promising players with similar ill fortune / injuries that stopped them from having a career at all
I pity someone like Mario Ancic much more than Haas, at least Haas can still compete later on

Kyle_Johansen
03-27-2013, 01:12 AM
It's like it's a Djokovic and Nadal fan's duty to call every great player from 2001-2007 a mug.

Seriously, when you're on here that's the impression you can get.

Mountaindewslave
03-27-2013, 01:14 AM
It's like it's a Djokovic and Nadal fan's duty to call every great player from 2001-2007 a mug.

Seriously, when you're on here that's the impression you can get.

it does seem like that. it wasn't the BEST era ever but there were some very talented players. next to Federer any generation would look worse after all

leng jai
03-27-2013, 01:15 AM
how much credit do you think Haas deserves?
I love him as a player and personality, and his daughter is adorable
but there is a huge physical aspect to the sport
some bad luck yeah
but Haas was never in incredible shape earlier in his career, he didn't train enough
mega talented and unlucky
but injuries are the sport
I could count so many names/fingers off my hand of how many players had bad 'luck' and got injuries
I do love Tommy's game and hope to see him around much longer but no one knows what he would have achieved had he been healthy his career, and while it would have been more than he has, it's all speculation
Tommy has had a nice career and some ill fortune but there are many promising players with similar ill fortune / injuries that stopped them from having a career at all
I pity someone like Mario Ancic much more than Haas, at least Haas can still compete later on

The point is Haas came back from career threatening injuries twice in his career and returned to a very high level. Most players would never have come back to any decent level at all after the first shoulder surgery, let alone twice. Many players in similar situations have given up because they weren't willing to go through the pain and rehab required which is completely understandable.

Mr. Oracle
03-27-2013, 01:19 AM
The point is Haas came back from career threatening injuries twice in his career and returned to a very high level. Most players would never have come back to any decent level at all after the first shoulder surgery, let alone twice. Many players in similar situations have given up because they weren't willing to go through the pain and rehab required which is completely understandable.

Nadal > Haas

Mr. Oracle
03-27-2013, 01:21 AM
It's like it's a Djokovic and Nadal fan's duty to call every great player from 2001-2007 a mug.

Seriously, when you're on here that's the impression you can get.

I feel that sense of duty and moral obligation acutely.

Kyle_Johansen
03-27-2013, 01:21 AM
Really, Tommy had a career that millions of players would have love/would love to have, even with all the injuries. How many people can say they have been in the top 20 of the most physical era ever at 35?

stewietennis
03-27-2013, 01:27 AM
This cannot be stressed enough actually. People are calling Nadal, Djoker and Murray "Fed's biggest rivals" but in actuality, Fed played Roddick, Haas, Safin, Hewitt, Gonzalez (players of his own generation) countless times as well. Yet, those players aren't called his rivals by the MTF tards for the sole reason that Federer completely owned these guys. Roddick for example would surely have won more slams and perhaps become an acknowledged great of the game if not for Federer.


Rivals means there's a rivalry. A rivalry means all participants win and lose to each other at some point. It's not really a rivalry when one party loses all the time. The fact that there's an argument as to who's better Federer vs Nadal vs Djokovic vs Murray based on their respective head to head not being lopsided (like 20-3 or something), means they're rivals. There's not really a discussion between Federer vs Roddick. Roddick was Federer's contemporary but was never a rival.

Mountaindewslave
03-27-2013, 01:40 AM
The point is Haas came back from career threatening injuries twice in his career and returned to a very high level. Most players would never have come back to any decent level at all after the first shoulder surgery, let alone twice. Many players in similar situations have given up because they weren't willing to go through the pain and rehab required which is completely understandable.

for sure credit is due to Tommy it's awesome that he's fought back and got himself back to pro level after so many big surgeries but I'm just saying he had a pretty good career all and all, not as tragic as some make it out to sound

Kyle_Johansen
03-27-2013, 01:42 AM
Rivals means there's a rivalry. A rivalry means all participants win and lose to each other at some point. It's not really a rivalry when one party loses all the time. The fact that there's an argument as to who's better Federer vs Nadal vs Djokovic vs Murray based on their respective head to head not being lopsided (like 20-3 or something), means they're rivals. There's not really a discussion between Federer vs Roddick. Roddick was Federer's contemporary but was never a rival.

Fed and Roddick played in 4 GS finals and another 3 semis. Nadal and Murray are considered to have a rivalry even though Nadal has a 8-match advantage.

heya
03-27-2013, 01:57 AM
According to Fedfanboys, Roddick was a great Slam contender despite not participating in clay tourneys and faking injuries between 2003-2011 (coincidentally, he made enough money from sponsors & humiliating tv commercials with the trophy falling on his head. Then, he couldn't wait to quit tennis in 2007 because he was washed-up).

At least 34 year old Haas, Tsonga & Berdych can beat Fed a few times and don't pretend they can win Slams. Unluckily for Roddick, he believed he deserved $15 million from sponsors & tennis exhibitions. He truly said he could win anything he wanted just because his family and 4 fans said so. He should be happy that an injured Nalbandian made him a richer man after the US Open.

emotion
03-27-2013, 01:58 AM
When Lleyton Hewitt is not your generation's most injured player, it was an unfortunate generation

Kyle_Johansen
03-27-2013, 02:01 AM
The way it's going Delpo is going to be this generation's most injured player for a top guy.

Mark Lenders
03-27-2013, 02:04 AM
The way it's going Delpo is going to be this generation's most injured player for a top guy.

It's already a guarantee. Highly unlikely that Nadal, Djokovic or Murray can surpass or even come close to his injury record while in their prime years and Del Potro will likely remain a top guy for many years because he is good enough to remain highly ranked even playing a lot of tournaments through injuries or rather the field is too weak to take advantage of him playing through injury, whatever way you want to look at it.

stewietennis
03-27-2013, 02:36 AM
Fed and Roddick played in 4 GS finals and another 3 semis. Nadal and Murray are considered to have a rivalry even though Nadal has a 8-match advantage.

But Federer has an 18 match advantage :confused:

Nadal vs Murray is 13 - 5 which means Murray has won 27.7% of their matches. Six matches in majors account for 33.3% of their matches played – and Murray has two wins in majors (one win and one ret).

Federer vs Roddick is 21-3 which means Roddick has won 12.5% of their matches. Eight matches in majors account for 33.3% of their matches played – and Roddick has won 0 matches in majors.

Which one do you think constitutes as a true rivalry? Federer and Roddick have played each other a lot, no doubt, but because the result is virtually guaranteed to be a Federer win, or actually guaranteed in majors, doesn't constitute as a true rivalry. Hell, might as well say Davydenko is Federer's rival because they've played 19 times including six times in majors. It's a "rivalry" in the sense that they've played a lot. But not a true rivalry in the competitive sense as even Nadal vs Murray. When one player isn't a threat, he's not really a rival.

Kyle_Johansen
03-27-2013, 02:42 AM
Roddick was always a threat to Federer and RF knew it. The matchup favoured Roger but he knew the trouble Andy could give him if he wasn't sharp. Same goes for Davydenko, and yes, Federer/Davydenko was a rivalry.

heya
03-27-2013, 02:54 AM
No big deal if injured chokers lost to Fed & Delpo though.

heya
03-27-2013, 02:58 AM
But Federer has an 18 match advantage :confused:

Nadal vs Murray is 13 - 5 which means Murray has won 27.7% of their matches. Six matches in majors account for 33.3% of their matches played – and Murray has two wins in majors (one win and one ret).

Federer vs Roddick is 21-3 which means Roddick has won 12.5% of their matches. Eight matches in majors account for 33.3% of their matches played – and Roddick has won 0 matches in majors.

Which one do you think constitutes as a true rivalry? Federer and Roddick have played each other a lot, no doubt, but because the result is virtually guaranteed to be a Federer win, or actually guaranteed in majors, doesn't constitute as a true rivalry. Hell, might as well say Davydenko is Federer's rival because they've played 19 times including six times in majors. It's a "rivalry" in the sense that they've played a lot. But not a true rivalry in the competitive sense as even Nadal vs Murray. When one player isn't a threat, he's not really a rival.
Fed said he didn't really think he would lose the 2009 Wimbledon final. Roddick didn't really have the fearless attitude, weapons and talent.

Lugburz
03-27-2013, 03:29 AM
Wondering how many more times will Haas prove everybody wrong? :scratch:

Kyle_Johansen
03-27-2013, 03:35 AM
Fed said he didn't really think he would lose the 2009 Wimbledon final. Roddick didn't really have the fearless attitude, weapons and talent.

I'm sure Roger was so sure about winning when down 6-2 in the 2nd set TB and down 15-40 at 8-8 in the 5th.

atennisfan
03-27-2013, 03:43 AM
Big LULZ at the dulltards and noletrolls scraping the bottom trying to justify todays so called strong era after a 35 yo oft-injured mug from the so called weak era straight setted the current no. 1


:rolls:

stewietennis
03-27-2013, 03:54 AM
I'm sure Roger was so sure about winning when down 6-2 in the 2nd set TB and down 15-40 at 8-8 in the 5th.

I think you may be underestimating Federer. It was a great match overall because it was the only time Roddick redlined his game in the big stage against Roger but Federer's level was 'only' very good. No way would losing have crept into his head especially in his tournament, on his favourite surface against a person he'd beaten 18 times and lost only twice (at the time).

Kyle_Johansen
03-27-2013, 03:57 AM
I think you may be underestimating Federer. It was a great match overall because it was the only time Roddick redlined his game in the big stage against Roger but Federer's level was 'only' very good. No way would losing have crept into his head especially in his tournament, on his favourite surface against a person he'd beaten 18 times and lost only twice (at the time).

Losing would have crept into his head if he lose the second set and realized that he hadn't broken Andy yet.

stewietennis
03-27-2013, 04:00 AM
Losing would have crept into his head if he lose the second set and realized that he hadn't broken Andy yet.

Maybe. Who knows how a champion's mentality works. But he dug himself out of that hole, weathered everything Roddick could throw at him and still won.

BackhandDTL
03-27-2013, 04:09 AM
I think you may be underestimating Federer. It was a great match overall because it was the only time Roddick redlined his game in the big stage against Roger but Federer's level was 'only' very good. No way would losing have crept into his head especially in his tournament, on his favourite surface against a person he'd beaten 18 times and lost only twice (at the time).

Maybe your meaning is different from my interpretation, but I think you're way off here.

Other than his serve, nothing about Roddick's game that day was redlined at all. His '09 game, while impressive, was built more on solid baselining, strong passing shots, and some generally well-executed net-play. I cringe when I see people call it the greatest match he's ever played.

By contrast, his game in their 2004 final was much more high-risk, high-reward, and he genuinely outplayed Federer for the better part of two and a half sets prior to the rain delay that effectively cooled him off.

Kyle_Johansen
03-27-2013, 04:10 AM
People forget in general how good 2003-2004 Roddick really was.

Allez
03-27-2013, 08:12 AM
Article takes on greater poignancy after this epic victory...:bigcry:

leng jai
03-27-2013, 11:26 AM
Nole Fan :bowdown:

Nole fan
03-27-2013, 02:57 PM
I sincerely regret posting this thread now. :facepalm:

Nole Rules
03-27-2013, 03:56 PM
I sincerely regret posting this thread now. :facepalm:

:rolls: :hug:

sportstennis
03-28-2013, 03:14 PM
This era is best ever. no?