Will Federer end his career with a losing H2H against Djokovic, Nadal AND Murray? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Will Federer end his career with a losing H2H against Djokovic, Nadal AND Murray?

Certinfy
03-25-2013, 03:07 PM
Well he seems like he wants to stick around for a few more years.

Nadal finishing their H2H positively is pretty much a given.

Murray is now 2 wins ahead at 11-9 and Federer has only ever led their H2H once which was after the first match they played.

But the most interesting one is against Djokovic. Federer leads 16-13 but you would surely have to think if Federer stays around a few more years that Djokovic will be able to turn this around.

In response to the question, I'm going to say yes.

HumbleTennisFan
03-25-2013, 03:09 PM
Probably Yes,depends if Federer will play long enough.

LoveFifteen
03-25-2013, 03:10 PM
I'd say it's quite likely.

romismak
03-25-2013, 03:12 PM
It depends on Nole, because H2H with Rafa is 1000% sure and with Murray i would say it is something like 90%+ also that Murray will have poistive H2H with Roger- he is up 2 matches and Roger will only decline in next 2 years.

Nole i think can turn it- it depends on Roger how long and how good he will be - how many opportunities for Nole to beat him, but basically it isnīt looking good for Roger, most of the tour isnīt grass under the roof or fast HC like Cinci, so i can see Nole easily win say next 5-6 from 7-8 that would mean advantage Nole

If we just look in 2013 possible matches, Nole will be favorit on slow HC, clay and Roger would be only slight favorit on grass and fast HC- even indoors at the end of the season i can see it tight and next year 2014 possibly 2015 the advantage for Nole will be even higher with declining older Roger

EnriqueIG8
03-25-2013, 04:36 PM
Probably, yeah. But I don't mind.

Those 3 can all have positive head to heads but if they all get stuck on much lesser slams than Fed I don't see the point in bringing out H2H's.

manadrainer
03-25-2013, 04:37 PM
Probably.

It's just natural: the more he declines, the more it'll be easier to beat him. He'll be 32 in August...

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ProdigyEng
03-25-2013, 04:37 PM
Well he keeps dodging Djoko King so I'm not sure.

GOATERER
03-25-2013, 04:38 PM
I think so..doubt Roger is afraid of what H2H when it's all said and done says unlike some other players...only cares about trophies :)

Federer in 2
03-25-2013, 04:38 PM
Oh please don't let it happen Roger just not this :lol:

ProdigyEng
03-25-2013, 04:40 PM
Oh please don't let it happen Roger just not this :lol:

Why not?

Nole Rules
03-25-2013, 04:41 PM
Even if this happens, this won't make Fed's achivements any less impressive. Pretty normal to see him lose quite often to these guys when he is very far from his prime.

Mechlan
03-25-2013, 04:42 PM
Probably will happen, unless he retires this year.

Hypnotize
03-25-2013, 04:43 PM
The only way he can prevent it happening is if he keeps losing early in tournaments before Nole has a chance to beat him.

Mark Lenders
03-25-2013, 04:44 PM
Probably, yes.

Gabe32
03-25-2013, 04:51 PM
Yeah but only because he is considerably older. If they were all the same age, I'd expect Fed to have a positive head to head against both Murray and Djokovic. Not Nadal though.

Sri
03-25-2013, 04:53 PM
Nadal, Djoko and Andy? Grrr... You missed Tomic!

GSMnadal
03-25-2013, 05:01 PM
Hope he gets to play Andy on clay. Should be fun.

As for Djokovic, I'm not sure. After 2011 I thought it was a done deal, but last year Fed outscored him 2-1, so who knows. Still think Novak should be able to get 4 more wins.

janko05
03-25-2013, 05:05 PM
It'd be a perfect addition to allow for infinite trolling to take place around here. :worship:
Fedtards would be screaming 'seventeen' or smth and the answer would be 'just see their H2H'.

TBkeeper
03-25-2013, 05:12 PM
Not against Fed ... against Olderer maybe ;)
Roger is the GOAT though

Sri
03-25-2013, 05:13 PM
It'd be a perfect addition to allow for infinite trolling to take place around here. :worship:
Fedtards would be screaming 'seventeen' or smth and the answer would be 'just see their H2H'.
Or the other way round.

It is these days Rafatards screaming H2H and all-top-10-is-pigeon and record slam count and record weeks at #1 being the usual responses.

Nole fans remind Rafatards of 6 straight losses in finals. Unprecedented.

Cereal Killer
03-25-2013, 05:16 PM
Hope he gets to play Andy on clay. Should be fun.

As for Djokovic, I'm not sure. After 2011 I thought it was a done deal, but last year Fed outscored him 2-1, so who knows. Still think Novak should be able to get 4 more wins.

Their H2H last year was 3-2 in Djokovic's favour.

As for the thread question, it's very likely, yes.

GSMnadal
03-25-2013, 05:16 PM
Or the other way round.

It is these days Rafatards screaming H2H and all-top-10-is-pigeon and record slam count and record weeks at #1 being the usual responses.

Nole fans remind Rafatards of 6 straight losses in finals. Unprecedented.

It were 7 :sobbing:

romismak
03-25-2013, 05:17 PM
Hope he gets to play Andy on clay. Should be fun.

As for Djokovic, I'm not sure. After 2011 I thought it was a done deal, but last year Fed outscored him 2-1, so who knows. Still think Novak should be able to get 4 more wins.

Yes he won 2x last year, but it was 3-2 for Nole in matches and 2 of them were played hugely favoring Roger - indoor grass-probably best possible surface for Roger and worst for Nole

Cinci-fast HC- Nole is good in such conditions, but Roger better

they havenīt met - AO,IW,Miami - there would be Nole big favorit.

Nole won 2x on clay- where he is favorit and even won indoor HC in London

GSMnadal
03-25-2013, 05:17 PM
Yes he won 2x last year, but it was 3-2 for Nole in matches and 2 of them were played hugely favoring Roger - indoor grass-probably best possible surface for Roger and worst for Nole

Cinci-fast HC- Nole is good in such conditions, but Roger better

they havenīt met - AO,IW,Miami - there would be Nole big favorit.

Nole won 2x on clay- where he is favorit and even won indoor HC in London

Their H2H last year was 3-2 in Djokovic's favour.

As for the thread question, it's very likely, yes.

I thought clay never counted :confused:

Saberq
03-25-2013, 05:22 PM
since Djokovic became top player he leads H2H

Topspindoctor
03-25-2013, 05:25 PM
No, as I see Nose retiring by the end of the year :shrug:


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Kyle_Johansen
03-25-2013, 05:28 PM
He could still have a positive H2H with Djokovic as he can trouble him on any given day still.

Not like it matters though. Djokovic, Rafa, and Andy aren't his age group. He dominated his age group years ago.

ossie
03-25-2013, 05:41 PM
Thats the price he pays for sticking around and hoping to fluke his way to another major.

Newcomer
03-25-2013, 05:45 PM
No.
Roger is very close to retire. Can't see him at tour after 2014.

Kyle_Johansen
03-25-2013, 05:46 PM
No.
Roger is very close to retire. Can't see him at tour after 2014.

He plans to play until 2016.

Newcomer
03-25-2013, 05:54 PM
He plans to play until 2016.

I know it. But what is the reason to play untill 2016 with the pain in back? And without any chances to win OG or Slam. Yes, he likes tennis, he is a tennis. Also he has family, and family is much more important for him now than tennis. I'm not sure that he wants to retire like Agassi with chronic back problems.

Kyle_Johansen
03-25-2013, 05:57 PM
I know it. But what is the reason to play untill 2016 with the pain in back? And without any chances to win OG or Slam. Yes, he likes tennis, he is a tennis. Also he has family, and family is much more important for him now than tennis. I'm not sure that he wants to retire like Agassi with chronic back problems.

The back is an on again-off again issue. He won't have it every week and when he's healthy he'll still be a contender for every Slam and tournament he plays. The decline really hasn't been that drastic the last 6 months as people suggest - he's still in the top 3 and still capable of beating anyone on any day. He's doing far better than Pete was at the same age and he cares a lot more than Pete did. Even Annacone said he still has enthusiasm of a 22 year-old. The way some talk it's like he's already out of the top 10.

bouncer7
03-25-2013, 06:09 PM
No, cause he is fraud and always avoiding these ones when they are hot, intentionaly losing to Berdych, Tsonga or even Gasquet.

That's why he will be remember as the weakest member of big4.

Federer in 2
03-25-2013, 06:15 PM
since Djokovic became top player he leads H2H

:haha:

How hilarious is this? People only count the years where Novak was at his peak as 'Tennis History. :spit:

Check Nole Fan's sig for more info. Pretty educational stuff.

3DGNumberOneFan
03-25-2013, 06:24 PM
No he won't.

Nadal will always have him. Murray probably, Djokovic I don't think can overcome it

Saberq
03-25-2013, 06:25 PM
:haha:

How hilarious is this? People only count the years where Novak was at his peak as 'Tennis History. :spit:

Check Nole Fan's sig for more info. Pretty educational stuff.

I meant since 2007........since Novak made top 3

Kyle_Johansen
03-25-2013, 06:29 PM
Not like Novak was #350 starting 2007. He was still a top 20 player and very good.

Federer in 2
03-25-2013, 06:30 PM
I meant since 2007........since Novak made top 3

Against a...Wait for it...Declining Federer.

And pretty comfortable to declare the cut-off right after Federer beat Djokovic in their first 4 meetings, don't you think. :rolleyes:

Pirata.
03-25-2013, 06:34 PM
Hope he gets to play Andy on clay. Should be fun.

Will be a repeat of this, but in three sets.

http://i.imgur.com/dZ8ajgG.png

bouncer7
03-25-2013, 06:35 PM
but Fedmug is already pigeon of gluten free Nole.

GSMnadal
03-25-2013, 06:39 PM
Will be a repeat of this, but in three sets.

http://i.imgur.com/dZ8ajgG.png

Delicious :drool:

rocketassist
03-25-2013, 06:41 PM
Murray would much rather face the old man on clay than Berdych or Del Potro, never mind Nadal and Djokovic.

Saberq
03-25-2013, 06:43 PM
Against a...Wait for it...Declining Federer.

And pretty comfortable to declare the cut-off right after Federer beat Djokovic in their first 4 meetings, don't you think. :rolleyes:

well Fed won what like 3 Slams that year?and Novak was outside of top 50 when he lost those 4 matches never mind 2 of those were in the deciding set

Allez
03-25-2013, 06:52 PM
Sure is looking that way, but that should not tarnish his awesome legacy in any way.

Kyle_Johansen
03-25-2013, 06:53 PM
well Fed won what like 3 Slams that year?and Novak was outside of top 50 when he lost those 4 matches never mind 2 of those were in the deciding set

In the first two he was outside the top 50, but still a very good player. And next two he was inside the top 20.

Everko
03-25-2013, 06:55 PM
This is what will define Federer once he is gone from the game, he cannot beat rivals.

janko05
03-25-2013, 06:56 PM
well Fed won what like 3 Slams that year?and Novak was outside of top 50 when he lost those 4 matches never mind 2 of those were in the deciding set

if winning those 3 slams isn't enough evidence for ever declining Fed then...
maybe you're asking too much?

born_on_clay
03-25-2013, 07:02 PM
yeah, it can happen

juan27
03-25-2013, 08:17 PM
but Fedmug is already pigeon of gluten free Nole.

pigeon of gluten freen novak???? you are a patetic tard.

the pigeon of that nole was your nadull , the only man of lost 3 consecutive slam finals against one player , spartan this dull!!!

federer older was a better rival for djoko than nadull.

MrPlateperson
03-25-2013, 10:10 PM
All people saying "yes, but it won't affect the goat arguement" are wrong. Federer will stop playing once he thinks he cant play at a high level anymore. Any negative hth should count against him.

janko05
03-25-2013, 10:13 PM
All people saying "yes, but it won't affect the goat arguement" are wrong. Federer will stop playing once he thinks he cant play at a high level anymore. Any negative hth should count against him.

right on the money Wing man...oops :tape:

latso
03-25-2013, 11:21 PM
Hopefully not, but possibly yes.

The thing is that if he's good enough on his week to get as high as playing Djokovic, he would have the game to beat him, it would be a 40-60 contest.

He did it at RG, so basically he could do it anywhere. And it takes 4 wins for Nole to get the upper hand in stats, which is ofc feasible, but won't be easy for sure.

There is also the injuries situation (for both of them), which might prolong their H2Hs long enough for this not to happen.

But yeah, if Roger holds injury free till OG in Brazil, then he'll probably end up trailing this one as well.

Kyle_Johansen
03-25-2013, 11:31 PM
All people saying "yes, but it won't affect the goat arguement" are wrong. Federer will stop playing once he thinks he cant play at a high level anymore. Any negative hth should count against him.

Why would it affect the GOAT argument? He's always trailed in the H2H against Rafa after their 3rd match, and he's always had trouble with Murray. Even today though, Fed is the hardest guy for Djokovic to beat and in the right conditions I think Fed could win this year or next year against him. Even on clay too I'd imagine.

Not to mention that Rafa is 5 years and Nole/Andy are 6 years younger. It's normal that the H2Hs would be in their favour just like it's natural that Nole and Rafa start declining some day and lose to guys they wouldn't lose to in their primes - the up and comers who are 23-24 when they are 28-30.

ProdigyEng
03-25-2013, 11:33 PM
The only time Fed was ahead in the H2H with Murray was after their first match wasn't it ?

Certinfy
03-26-2013, 12:15 AM
The only time Fed was ahead in the H2H with Murray was after their first match wasn't it ?
From my opening post:

Murray is now 2 wins ahead at 11-9 and Federer has only ever led their H2H once which was after the first match they played.
:facepalm:

Saberq
03-26-2013, 12:24 AM
Why would it affect the GOAT argument? He's always trailed in the H2H against Rafa after their 3rd match, and he's always had trouble with Murray. Even today though, Fed is the hardest guy for Djokovic to beat and in the right conditions I think Fed could win this year or next year against him. Even on clay too I'd imagine.

Not to mention that Rafa is 5 years and Nole/Andy are 6 years younger. It's normal that the H2Hs would be in their favour just like it's natural that Nole and Rafa start declining some day and lose to guys they wouldn't lose to in their primes - the up and comers who are 23-24 when they are 28-30.

the fact that you think Federer is Novak's toughest opponent man.............no......and not only clay

MrPlateperson
03-26-2013, 12:26 AM
Why would it affect the GOAT argument? He's always trailed in the H2H against Rafa after their 3rd match, and he's always had trouble with Murray. Even today though, Fed is the hardest guy for Djokovic to beat and in the right conditions I think Fed could win this year or next year against him. Even on clay too I'd imagine.

Not to mention that Rafa is 5 years and Nole/Andy are 6 years younger. It's normal that the H2Hs would be in their favour just like it's natural that Nole and Rafa start declining some day and lose to guys they wouldn't lose to in their primes - the up and comers who are 23-24 when they are 28-30.

The numbers would say you're inferior to your biggest rivals, that has to have some weight in the goat debate. Also the other stuff is just excuses, the old man wasn't playing all that much better in his prime. Federer's strengh has been his shotmaking and talent not his physique. So age isnt much of a factor as it would be with others (nadal, nole).

Kyle_Johansen
03-26-2013, 12:36 AM
the fact that you think Federer is Novak's toughest opponent man.............no......and not only clay

He's the guy he's had most trouble with since 2011.

Honestly
03-26-2013, 12:37 AM
I love how the OP said AND Murray, instead of AND Djokovic. Expected from a low IQ though.

paseo
03-26-2013, 12:39 AM
The numbers would say you're inferior to your biggest rivals, that has to have some weight in the goat debate. Also the other stuff is just excuses, the old man wasn't playing all that much better in his prime. Federer's strengh has been his shotmaking and talent not his physique. So age isnt much of a factor as it would be with others (nadal, nole).

:eek:

Where are the FedTards brigade? This new troll tadpole needs to be crushed before it grows into a full fledge drooling monster under the bridge. Come on, FedTards, hit hard! Hit where it hurts!

Certinfy
03-26-2013, 12:40 AM
I love how the OP said AND Murray, instead of AND Djokovic. Expected from a low IQ though.
"Djokovic, Nadal AND Murray?" is the same as "Djokovic and Nadal and Murray" or the names in any order and therefore doesn't change the context of anything. Expected stupid comment from you though, nothing new, stop embarrassing yourself.

Abel
03-26-2013, 12:43 AM
It's not particularly relevant as he generally beat Nole and Murray in the important matches when he was close to his prime. He started losing when Nole started peaking but still kept beating Murray in the slams until this year :shrug:

Only Nadal is a true match up issue. Federer beats Murray on every surface at his best and definitely beats Nole on grass. The clay/HC matches would be close (Nole vs. Fed) but probably 6:4 Federer on each surface if we're taking them both at their best.

Honestly
03-26-2013, 12:46 AM
"Djokovic, Nadal AND Murray?" is the same as "Djokovic and Nadal and Murray" or the names in any order and therefore doesn't change the context of anything. Expected stupid comment from you though, nothing new, stop embarrassing yourself.

:spit: Why did you write 'and' in upper case then?

Roy Emerson
03-26-2013, 12:47 AM
Yep. He turns 32 this year.

Certinfy
03-26-2013, 12:48 AM
:spit: Why did you write 'and' in upper case then?
To empathise the point that he could end up with a losing H2H with all.

GSMnadal
03-26-2013, 12:49 AM
Honestly, you do know Certinfy likes Murray, right? I doubt he'll try to ridicule him with a thread title

Kyle_Johansen
03-26-2013, 12:50 AM
Yep. He turns 32 this year.

That doesn't mean much in terms of H2H. He could beat Nole two times this year for all we know.

Johnny Groove
03-26-2013, 12:51 AM
Not sure why it matters.

Sampras ended his career with a losing H2H vs. Roddick, Hewitt, AND Safin :shrug:

Honestly
03-26-2013, 12:53 AM
To empathise the point that he could end up with a losing H2H with all.

Then you should have had Djokovic after the emphasized AND, since he is the only one Roger has a positive h2h against. Understand now?

Honestly, you do know Certinfy likes Murray, right? I doubt he'll try to ridicule him with a thread title

:facepalm:

Certinfy
03-26-2013, 12:55 AM
Then you should have had Djokovic after the emphasized AND, since he is the only one Roger has a positive h2h against. Understand now?

Well from the reading view, yes. But from an understanding view it doesn't change anything. But yes I see where you are coming from.

ProdigyEng
03-26-2013, 12:56 AM
Who gives a shit about where he emphasizes the AND? These Muger Tard trolls will try to pick out the smallest of details.

Kyle_Johansen
03-26-2013, 12:58 AM
Not sure why it matters.

Sampras ended his career with a losing H2H vs. Roddick, Hewitt, AND Safin :shrug:

What a mug.

hipolymer
03-26-2013, 01:01 AM
Not sure why it matters.

Sampras ended his career with a losing H2H vs. Roddick, Hewitt, AND Safin :shrug:

Sampras is considerably older than them.

Honestly
03-26-2013, 01:02 AM
Well from the reading view, yes. But from an understanding view it doesn't change anything. But yes I see where you are coming from.

Good. Now if we can only enlighten GSMnadal as well. Now that is a massive challenge that I have neither the time nor inclination to take on.

Kyle_Johansen
03-26-2013, 01:04 AM
Sampras is considerably older than them.

Yes, and Federer is older than Djokovic, Murray, and Nadal by about a tennis generation.

GSMnadal
03-26-2013, 01:05 AM
Not sure why it matters.

Sampras ended his career with a losing H2H vs. Roddick, Hewitt, AND Safin :shrug:

Entirely different situation, way smaller sample sizes, encounters were at the end of Sampras' career. While these are 20-30 match H2H's, midway Roger's career.

Although the Murray H2H is mostly irrelevant, because Andy only won the smaller matches until 2012. Same more or less goes for Djokovic, and Roger still leads that.

MrPlateperson
03-26-2013, 01:06 AM
Not sure why it matters.

Sampras ended his career with a losing H2H vs. Roddick, Hewitt, AND Safin :shrug:

The age difference is much bigger between Sampras and those guys compared to what federer is to nadal, andy, and nole. They are pretty much in th same generation.

Honestly
03-26-2013, 01:08 AM
Not sure why it matters.

Sampras ended his career with a losing H2H vs. Roddick, Hewitt, AND Safin :shrug:

You continue to be a level-headed and objective Nadal fan. No big thing if Roger worsens his h2h with his main rivals who are much younger than him as he ages. Only dumb clowns give h2h huge significance anyway. Sometimes I'm not sure why you are even a Nadal fan. You seem too smart for that bunch.

Honestly
03-26-2013, 01:13 AM
This is a troll thread anyway. My thread about whether Nadal will win another fast HC event was way more relevant.

hipolymer
03-26-2013, 01:14 AM
Yes, and Federer is older than Djokovic, Murray, and Nadal by about a tennis generation.

He was getting his ass beat by Babydal and even got his ass handed to him by young Nole a couple of times too.

pepita1964
03-26-2013, 04:07 AM
No one is unbeatable. I am sure all players who have seen Nadal know that nothing is wrong with Nadal knees only his ego was badly injured.No one with such a serious injury and 8 months out of the game will run like him. What a farce it was !

Kyle_Johansen
03-26-2013, 04:22 AM
He was getting his ass beat by Babydal and even got his ass handed to him by young Nole a couple of times too.

What, to 20 year-old Novak who was #3 in the world, losing in a 3rd set tiebreaker? And like it or not, Nadal was already better in 2004 than many in the top 50 are today.

Kyle_Johansen
03-26-2013, 04:24 AM
Roger is NOT in the same generation with Rafa, Novak, and Andy. His generation was Hewitt, Roddick, Ferrero, Safin, Haas, etc...

Alex999
03-26-2013, 04:36 AM
it is completely irrelevant. what many guys here don't realize is Fed wrote his own history. end of the story. you win some, you lose some, it's how it works. With all respect to Nadal and his fans, Nadal's legacy shouldn't be based on his H2H with Roger. Nadal's legacy should be based on all of slams and masters he won.

I'm pretty neutral when it comes to both Fed and Rafa, but it is silly to base Nadal's greatness on his H2H with Roger. What Federer has done is beyond this world (shall I say our tennis world). no matter how you look at it, it is what it is.

strong era, weak era, we can BS 24/7, he did it with what he had and that's it. I keep saying on this forum, c'mon guys let's be (or try to be objective). If you want to take away Fed's greatness, then take away Rafa off clay, and then you'll have it.

you just can't have it both ways.

Kyle_Johansen
03-26-2013, 05:03 AM
I like Alex. Must have something to do with that Kanata thing.

Dark Knight
03-26-2013, 05:09 AM
it is completely irrelevant. what many guys here don't realize is Fed wrote his own history. end of the story. you win some, you lose some, it's how it works. With all respect to Nadal and his fans, Nadal's legacy shouldn't be based on his H2H with Roger. Nadal's legacy should be based on all of slams and masters he won.

I'm pretty neutral when it comes to both Fed and Rafa, but it is silly to base Nadal's greatness on his H2H with Roger. What Federer has done is beyond this world (shall I say our tennis world). no matter how you look at it, it is what it is.

strong era, weak era, we can BS 24/7, he did it with what he had and that's it. I keep saying on this forum, c'mon guys let's be (or try to be objective). If you want to take away Fed's greatness, then take away Rafa off clay, and then you'll have it.

you just can't have it both ways.

And maybe his H2H with Novak if they end up with close number of slams since they both are of the same age.

Good post btw. :)

SheepleBuster
03-26-2013, 05:15 AM
it is completely irrelevant. what many guys here don't realize is Fed wrote his own history. end of the story. you win some, you lose some, it's how it works. With all respect to Nadal and his fans, Nadal's legacy shouldn't be based on his H2H with Roger. Nadal's legacy should be based on all of slams and masters he won.

I'm pretty neutral when it comes to both Fed and Rafa, but it is silly to base Nadal's greatness on his H2H with Roger. What Federer has done is beyond this world (shall I say our tennis world). no matter how you look at it, it is what it is.

strong era, weak era, we can BS 24/7, he did it with what he had and that's it. I keep saying on this forum, c'mon guys let's be (or try to be objective). If you want to take away Fed's greatness, then take away Rafa off clay, and then you'll have it.

you just can't have it both ways.

Ding ding ding ... we have a winner. Someone with a brain on MTF. Amazing. There is hope for humanity ... faith in universe restored.

Chase Visa
03-26-2013, 05:27 AM
Yes.

And it's annoying. Unfortunately too many tards are dumb enough to think that Federer is not the modern GOAT due to his poor H2H.

Kyle_Johansen
03-26-2013, 05:31 AM
The H2H with Andy and Nole depends on the surface I think. Fed has the edge over Andy at the WTF, Cincinnati, USO, and Wimbledon (and I think clay but we don't know). We know when RF is on his game he can beat both Andy and Nole and I wouldn't be surprised if he beat both this year.

Benny_Maths
03-26-2013, 05:41 AM
Individual H2H records don't mean much in the scheme of things because they don't guarantee titles, and titles are the only things that matter when judging a player's level of success.

What difference does it make if Federer ends with a negative H2H against 3 players because he plays on well past his peak? All you would be able to conclude is that Federer didn't conveniently lose motivation at the exact moment when a younger player dethroned him as the 5-time defending champ of a slam. In fact, all it does is show that Federer has the heart of the champion and isn't a quitter like some people.:D

Topspindoctor
03-26-2013, 05:45 AM
This is a troll thread anyway. My thread about whether Nadal will win another fast HC event was way more relevant.

shut up Magician.

Kyle_Johansen
03-26-2013, 05:48 AM
Benny is right. Take Borg for instance. His career record would not have been as great if he played until 30-33.

And I still don't understand Pete. From all I've heard he basically lost all motivation and quit when he couldn't hang with the younger guys any longer. After Wimbledon 2001 when he lost to RF he dropped from 6 to 12 and never got back into the top 10 again (well, once for a week). And it wasn't like he was doing that terribly, far from it. He still made the USO final in 2001 and could still play some great tennis.

Dougie
03-26-2013, 06:02 AM
Entirely different situation, way smaller sample sizes, encounters were at the end of Sampras' career. While these are 20-30 match H2H's, midway Roger's career.

Although the Murray H2H is mostly irrelevant, because Andy only won the smaller matches until 2012. Same more or less goes for Djokovic, and Roger still leads that.

Federer has done a remarkable job extending his career at the top way longer than most. That might give the impression that Murray, Djokovic, Federer are all the same generation, but they are not. The reason the sizes of the h2hīs are so big is because Federer is still hanging in there although past his prime, and because of the surface homogenization the top 4 play against each other much more than in Samprasīera.

The age difference is much bigger between Sampras and those guys compared to what federer is to nadal, andy, and nole. They are pretty much in th same generation.

No, they are not. Murray and Djokovic are only just peaked within the last couple of years, Federer peaked almost ten years ago. Thatīs a lifetime in tennis years.

Roger is NOT in the same generation with Rafa, Novak, and Andy. His generation was Hewitt, Roddick, Ferrero, Safin, Haas, etc...

This.

Kyle_Johansen
03-26-2013, 06:49 AM
Federer has done a remarkable job extending his career at the top way longer than most. That might give the impression that Murray, Djokovic, Federer are all the same generation, but they are not. The reason the sizes of the h2hīs are so big is because Federer is still hanging in there although past his prime, and because of the surface homogenization the top 4 play against each other much more than in Samprasīera.

This, oh so very much this. In general the surface homogenization has hurt the depth of the game overall I think because it's so much harder for newer guys to break through.

Dougie
03-26-2013, 07:12 AM
This, oh so very much this. In general the surface homogenization has hurt the depth of the game overall I think because it's so much harder for newer guys to break through.

Agassi and Sampras played against each other 34 times, Nadal and Djokovic have already played 33 times, thatīs quite telling.

Kyle_Johansen
03-26-2013, 07:15 AM
Agassi and Sampras played against each other 34 times, Nadal and Djokovic have already played 33 times, thatīs quite telling.

And Martina and Evert played too many times to count.

I hate surface homogenization. Differing styles have basically become non-existent these days. There's big server, aggressive baseliner, counter-puncher, grinder. Llodra is the only real serve and volley guy left.

Topspindoctor
03-26-2013, 07:20 AM
Good riddance to S&V. So boring. People want to see good rallies not brainless net rushing even on second serve

bokehlicious
03-26-2013, 07:21 AM
As long as he keeps a positive one against birdshit I'm all fine.

Orka_n
03-26-2013, 07:45 AM
The numbers would say you're inferior to your biggest rivalsWhat? No they don't, are you drunk? The numbers mean that you don't match up well against that particular player (or that you're a generation apart, which contributes to Fed's H2H with Murray and Nole). I wonder how many times I have to say this: In tennis you play against a FIELD of players to win TITLES, not against 1 or 2 specific players alone.
Also the other stuff is just excuses, the old man wasn't playing all that much better in his prime. Federer's strengh has been his shotmaking and talent not his physique. So age isnt much of a factor as it would be with others (nadal, nole).Hahaha dumbest stuff I've read for quite some time. First off, I assume you never watched Roger in his prime, over 4 years in a row at #1 and he had an aura of being indestructable that is long gone now. Secondly, yes, Fed's talent is his shotmaking but it's apparent to everyone that SINCE HE GOT OLDER, he cannot move into position as quickly to hit the shots he wants to hit. In other words, his footwork has visibly declined and with that his overall effectiveness on the court. His confidence and ability to keep a high level of play for a longer period of time is also gone.

As for the topic, he may or may not have a negative H2H vs all of them but who gives a shit, Noleray is not from his generation anyway. In a couple of years, some players may rise and get a positive H2H against Noleray but will that affect their legacy? The answer is no.

manadrainer
03-26-2013, 07:57 AM
it is completely irrelevant. what many guys here don't realize is Fed wrote his own history. end of the story. you win some, you lose some, it's how it works. With all respect to Nadal and his fans, Nadal's legacy shouldn't be based on his H2H with Roger. Nadal's legacy should be based on all of slams and masters he won.

I'm pretty neutral when it comes to both Fed and Rafa, but it is silly to base Nadal's greatness on his H2H with Roger. What Federer has done is beyond this world (shall I say our tennis world). no matter how you look at it, it is what it is.

strong era, weak era, we can BS 24/7, he did it with what he had and that's it. I keep saying on this forum, c'mon guys let's be (or try to be objective). If you want to take away Fed's greatness, then take away Rafa off clay, and then you'll have it.

you just can't have it both ways.

Great post, even more as it comes from a Nole fan. :worship:

I think Fed doesn't care if he ends up with a losing H2H against younger guys. He'll play as long as he feels he might be a contender in slams. In 20 years time noone will look at H2H, they'll look at titles and weeks at #1 to measure his greatness.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App (http://www.verticalsports.com/mobile)

heya
03-26-2013, 08:37 AM
:o Excuse makers tend to avoid hearing facts of Federer losses, as they can watch matches instead of imagining Fed fantasy magic tennis in their delusional minds.

Slow courts didn't do anything for the bad movers so how are fast courts good for them?
Llodra & Karlovic can volley but they do nothing at Wimbledon.

If the lightning fast court benefitted Fed & vastly inferior players, how come only a top 10 from 7 years ago, Ferrer adapted well to change, but all others didn't? Haas's not as consistent, was injured but he still beat the good players at age 34-5.

Federer lost to young players who are now among the top 50 players of all time. Nadal is better on clay than Fed will ever be on grass & hardcourt combined. Nadal, Djoker & Murray are better than any young opponent from the embarrassing 2002-2006 years. Watching a repeat of Hewitt, Safin, Roddick & Federina rivalry propaganda isn't my idea of great promotion, especially when these old players weren't anything special on clay. They stunk, not because they were too old to beat Nadal, Djoker & Murray many times...on every surface. Federer can squeeze the luck at Slams just like Roddick did; it means nothing without many wins.

Murray & Djoker improved their games every year, but Federer didn't change in 2007, therefore he needed Murray, Nadal & Djoker to give up. He required media fuelled slander vs. Djoker, injured opponents and luck to win Masters & Slams.

atennisfan
03-26-2013, 08:41 AM
In 20 years time noone will look at H2H, they'll look at titles and weeks at #1 to measure his greatness.


True.

Do we hear anyone mentioning Tilden's, Gonzales', Laver's Head to head?

Imperfect Angel
03-26-2013, 01:30 PM
yes

ogbg
03-26-2013, 01:40 PM
True.

Do we hear anyone mentioning Tilden's, Gonzales', Laver's Head to head?

We actually hear loads about Gonzales'. H2H tours were apparently a big thing for pros in his time.

ogbg
03-26-2013, 01:45 PM
Federer has done a remarkable job extending his career at the top way longer than most. That might give the impression that Murray, Djokovic, Federer are all the same generation, but they are not.

I would rather say that Federer has spanned 2 generations. It's true that he came through with the Hewitts and Roddicks but it's also likely in my opinion that he will be more remembered for his rivalries with Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray than he will for those with Hewitt and Roddick, and that Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray's careers will be remembered as rivals of Federer as much as rivals with each other.

atennisfan
03-26-2013, 01:58 PM
I would rather say that Federer has spanned 2 generations. It's true that he came through with the Hewitts and Roddicks but it's also likely in my opinion that he will be more remembered for his rivalries with Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray than he will for those with Hewitt and Roddick, and that Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray's careers will be remembered as rivals of Federer as much as rivals with each other.

LOL.

Djokovic and Murray were never rivals of Federer.

It's like saying Tomic and Dimitrov are rivals to Djokovic and Murray.

Remember, age difference between Federer to Nole/Murray is the same as Nole/Murray to Tomic.

ogbg
03-26-2013, 02:01 PM
LOL.

Djokovic and Murray were never rivals of Federer.

It's like saying Tomic and Dimitrov are rivals to Djokovic and Murray.

Tomic and Dimitrov aren't rivals to Djokovic and Murray because they never beat them. Murray first beat Federer in 2006 when Federer was younger than Murray is now.

Corey Feldman
03-26-2013, 02:02 PM
Will Federer end his career with more slams than all 3 of them? Yes

will Berdych ever win a GS title once in his life? No

Abel
03-26-2013, 02:15 PM
Age clearly doesn't define a rivalry. Nole and Fed are certainly rivals.

juan27
03-26-2013, 02:15 PM
Federer has done a remarkable job extending his career at the top way longer than most. That might give the impression that Murray, Djokovic, Federer are all the same generation, but they are not. The reason the sizes of the h2hīs are so big is because Federer is still hanging in there although past his prime, and because of the surface homogenization the top 4 play against each other much more than in Samprasīera.



No, they are not. Murray and Djokovic are only just peaked within the last couple of years, Federer peaked almost ten years ago. Thatīs a lifetime in tennis years.



This.


the homogenization it`s all for money.

the ATP changes the surfaces when they see the chance of win more money.

in the 90s generations were the very fast courts with sampras and agassi.

now , the atp wants to see the same 4 guys in semis all the time for win more money , if in the future the next generations are better in faster courts and people love them , it`s sure that the ATP will change the surfaces again for money.

now , with this shit of surfaces we have the same 4 or 3 all the time in semis or finals , because the people wants to see this players winning or playing one againt the other.

when federer was winning all , the people was happy with nadal challenge roger , but that was only possible on clay and the people wants to see that in all surfaces , so the ATP started to slow down more the surfaces like australia , us open and even wimbledon.

after that , this was more perfect byu the atp with the rising of nole and murray.

ALL IS MONEY

Vinceremo
03-26-2013, 02:31 PM
Age clearly doesn't define a rivalry. Nole and Fed are certainly rivals.

of course not, in the sense that it is clearly possible to have a rivalry with someone way older or younger than you. hell, Roger could be a 40 y.o. man right now and just by continuing to play and being quite competitive with Nole/Murray/Rafa, you could still label those matchups as 'rivalries'.

however, what age does define, for a big part, is both your physical and psychological state which will undoubtedly decline, specially if you are a successful athlete, as years go on and that's the part that is stupid to try and dismiss or look over it. primes do exist, in life and, precisely, even more noticeably when you are a pro athlete and people who think and say said players, who are now in their best years, are outclassing a Roger in equal 'conditions' are just delusional.

Certinfy
03-26-2013, 02:34 PM
will Berdych ever win a GS title once in his life? No
I did not know this, thanks for sharing this vital life saving information with all of us. What would we do without you?

rutinos harcos
03-26-2013, 02:46 PM
Cowarderer will try everything to avoid playing Djoko King.

Abel
03-26-2013, 02:49 PM
How did "Djoko King" become a vaguely accepted nickname for Novak? :confused: It is abysmal :sad:

ProdigyEng
03-26-2013, 02:58 PM
How did "Djoko King" become a vaguely accepted nickname for Novak? :confused: It is abysmal :sad:

Ask Harcos.

rutinos harcos
03-26-2013, 03:09 PM
How did "Djoko King" become a vaguely accepted nickname for Novak? :confused: It is abysmal :sad:

Djoko King & DOOOBAAAR rule.

paseo
03-26-2013, 03:12 PM
Just wait and watch 37 years old Fed becoming Tomic biggest rival.

rutinos harcos
03-26-2013, 03:16 PM
Just wait and watch 37 years old Fed becoming Tomic biggest rival.

Only if they are gonna close the roof at every event due to flying pigs.

ProdigyEng
03-26-2013, 03:20 PM
Just wait and watch 37 years old Fed becoming Tomic biggest rival.

Yeah and I'll become the King of England...

Matt01
03-26-2013, 03:24 PM
Will Federer end his career with more slams than all 3 of them? Yes

will Berdych ever win a GS title once in his life? No


Will Feldman get over his bitterness once in his life? No

Sri
03-26-2013, 03:27 PM
Will Feldman get over his bitterness once in his life? No
Stating obvious facts != Bitterness ;)

HumbleTennisFan
03-26-2013, 03:39 PM
People here are saying it as it would be a shame for novak or andy if they will loose to Roger Federer...man,he is the all time great,he could easily beat novak,andy and same goes for rafa.I really don't get it why ppl are so surprised about roger beating them...

Abel
03-26-2013, 04:23 PM
Some people defend their favourite player's accomplishments as if they're their own :lol:

nick the greek
03-26-2013, 05:49 PM
People here are saying it as it would be a shame for novak or andy if they will loose to Roger Federer...man,he is the all time great,he could easily beat novak,andy and same goes for rafa.I really don't get it why ppl are so surprised about roger beating them...
Easily?In yodeling .. maybe.

Corey Feldman
03-26-2013, 06:39 PM
Will Feldman get over his bitterness once in his life? Nowhat am i bitter about? my player is the GOAT unlike any the losers you support

AND murray won a GS!

Monaco doing well in 2013 aint he

GSMnadal
03-26-2013, 06:41 PM
I'm also wondering if Federer ends up with a losing 5th set record. Balls of steel this 'GOAT'

BackhandDTL
03-26-2013, 06:52 PM
I think he could end up just edging out the H2H with Djokovic because all of this is relative.

If Federer is in such a form that he's no longer able to play these guys competitive, he's also likely to meet them less and less in general. In the chance that he does, let's say, with another Wimbledon '12-esque run, he'll also be in a form and on a surface where he's more likely to beat them anyway.

The question I have is, if he has another IW-type run, where he's clearly in bad shape but manages to scrape his way to a meeting with one of the other best three, who would he and his fans prefer to take the whipping from?

ProdigyEng
03-26-2013, 06:54 PM
I think he could end up just edging out the H2H with Djokovic because all of this is relative.

If Federer is in such a form that he's no longer able to play these guys competitive, he's also likely to meet them less and less in general. In the chance that he does, let's say, with another Wimbledon '12-esque run, he'll also be in a form and on a surface where he's more likely to beat them anyway.

The question I have is, if he has another IW-type run, where he's clearly in bad shape but manages to scrape his way to a meeting with one of the other best three, who would he and his fans prefer to take the whipping from?

Probably Djoko King knowing Fed fans.

fivebargate
03-26-2013, 07:00 PM
Balls of steel this 'GOAT'

Agreed....no way to secure the insane records and numbers Fed has without balls of steel. And he will finish with not one retirement too I reckon....amazing.

Corey Feldman
03-26-2013, 07:02 PM
I'm also wondering if Federer ends up with a losing 5th set record. Balls of steel this 'GOAT'going by your logic, should we just count 2009 RG and 2012 Wimbledon titles as Nadal's since he ALMOST beat Soderking and Rosol??

stewietennis
03-26-2013, 09:41 PM
going by your logic, should we just count 2009 RG and 2012 Wimbledon titles as Nadal's since he ALMOST beat Soderking and Rosol??

I don't see how that's "going by his logic" but anyway Nadal did almost beat Rosol but, in your mind, how did Nadal "almost" beat Soderling? He was playing from behind the entire time.

NSMv1924
03-26-2013, 09:49 PM
I think he could end up just edging out the H2H with Djokovic because all of this is relative.

If Federer is in such a form that he's no longer able to play these guys competitive, he's also likely to meet them less and less in general. In the chance that he does, let's say, with another Wimbledon '12-esque run, he'll also be in a form and on a surface where he's more likely to beat them anyway.

The question I have is, if he has another IW-type run, where he's clearly in bad shape but manages to scrape his way to a meeting with one of the other best three, who would he and his fans prefer to take the whipping from?

Obviously Murray since losing to Nadal is unbearable and losing to Djoker slightly less bearable but still difficult as they would like to preserve the positive H2H...but I'm not Fed's fan so who knows what they're gonna say.

evilmindbulgaria
03-26-2013, 10:00 PM
what am i bitter about? my player is the GOAT unlike any the losers you support

AND murray won a GS!

Monaco doing well in 2013 aint he

Nope, never was and never will be :wavey: There is another thread for that discussion, this one is about Federina not only being Rafa's BITCH, but also being pimped out by Nole and Murray :devil:

Enjoy!

MTwEeZi
03-26-2013, 10:04 PM
Easily?In yodeling .. maybe.

I don't think so. I've heard his voice break in a few interviews.

The old mug might win due to experience but it wouldn't be easy.

Honestly
03-26-2013, 10:18 PM
Nope, never was and never will be :wavey: There is another thread for that discussion, this one is about Federina not only being Rafa's BITCH, but also being pimped out by Nole and Murray :devil:

Enjoy!

Still bitter I see :awww:

Honestly
03-26-2013, 10:24 PM
shut up Magician.

Magician :lol: Good luck convincing anyone of that son.

Will Federer end his career with more slams than all 3 of them? Yes

will Berdych ever win a GS title once in his life? No

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-HW0sDKSUXQ8/TmY2K0K_iqI/AAAAAAAABlo/ThWvTxZ52ag/s640/funny_owned.jpg

atennisfan
03-26-2013, 10:52 PM
Some people defend their favourite player's accomplishments as if they're their own :lol:

Goodrepped.

atennisfan
03-26-2013, 10:56 PM
I'm also wondering if Federer ends up with a losing 5th set record. Balls of steel this 'GOAT'

Fed rather battled and endured fifth set loss than retire during matches and/or blame loss to injuries/illnesses/butts-itchy etc.

evilmindbulgaria
03-27-2013, 12:35 AM
Still bitter I see :awww:

Bitter about what, Mugician? That Rafa owns Federina? Now, only Nole needs to improve his H2H against her and Federina will be pimped out by her 3 of her biggest rivals :devil:

Honestly
03-27-2013, 12:43 AM
Bitter about what, Mugician? That Rafa owns Federina? Now, only Nole needs to improve his H2H against her and Federina will be pimped out by her 3 of her biggest rivals :devil:

Bitter that none of them will ever get close to the GOAT's slam count or other records and that you will have to console yourself with a meaningless h2h :haha:

heya
03-27-2013, 12:53 AM
Federina thought he'd contend for the Aussie Open so
he withdrew from Abu Dhabi due to "pain" & "cold weather",
and then he bragged about enjoying 5 months of tennis domination
when Djoker & Nadal were injured.

Mountaindewslave
03-27-2013, 01:05 AM
all are 5-6 years younger than him, what does it matter, he leads all of his contemporaries in H2H

heya
03-27-2013, 02:47 AM
Fed beat his old contemporaries because they couldn't stop choking in any era.

evilmindbulgaria
03-27-2013, 03:16 AM
Bitter that none of them will ever get close to the GOAT's slam count or other records and that you will have to console yourself with a meaningless h2h :haha:

You do realize that every time a Fedturd opens their mouth about Federina being GOAT, they will be reminded how many time Rafa spanked his little Swiss Miss! So 11 Slams for Rafa and being Federina's MASTER is perfectly fine for me!

Enjoy being a fan of a little crying bitch :devil:

Kyle_Johansen
03-27-2013, 03:28 AM
Fed beat his old contemporaries because they couldn't stop choking in any era.

Just like Haas choked away the match against Djokovic just now?

Oh wait.

heya
03-27-2013, 03:40 AM
Yeah, he wasn't a clown at the Halle
Fed kiss ass event, Fed's fave surface... LOL. Too bad Haas is no Roddick, an overpaid smug choker.

juan27
03-27-2013, 03:46 AM
I'm also wondering if Federer ends up with a losing 5th set record. Balls of steel this 'GOAT'

well , your dull is the only man in tennis history in lost 3 consecutive slam finals against the same guys , a real spartan this dull!!!!

not even close to his defeated against the grass legend lukas rosol.

evilmindbulgaria
03-27-2013, 03:56 AM
well , your dull is the only man in tennis history in lost 3 consecutive slam finals against the same guys , a real spartan this dull!!!!

not even close to his defeated against the grass legend lukas rosol.

Not nearly as bad as being bitchslapped on 6 Grand Slam finals on 3 different surfaces and crying like a little bitch in front on millions of people just because you got OWNED by your Master :wavey:

Crawl back to your hole, Fedturd, and, every time the name of RAFAEl NADAL is mentioned, run crying like your fake idol :devil:

juan27
03-27-2013, 03:58 AM
Not nearly as bad as being bitchslapped on 6 Grand Slam finals on 3 different surfaces and crying like a little bitch in front on millions of people just because you got OWNED by your Master :wavey:

Crawl back to your hole, Fedturd, and, every time the name of RAFAEl NADAL is mentioned, run crying like your fake idol :devil:

yeah yeah , but , your dull is history for be a humilliated by djoko.

federer had all the records of titles and nš1 in tennis history.

keep triying , humilliated by djoko and rosol jaja

evilmindbulgaria
03-27-2013, 04:03 AM
yeah yeah , but , your dull is history for be a humilliated by djoko.

federer had all the records of titles and nš1 in tennis history.

keep triying , humilliated by djoko and rosol jaja

All I hear is "Whaaaa Whaaaa Whaaaaa", just like at the ceremony after the Australian Open Final in 2009.

By the way, why bringing Nole in the conversation when you keep offending and insulting him on the forum nonstop?
A typical coward Fedturd, just like you crying 19-time bitchslapped Swiss Miss :devil:

19 times and counting :wavey:

Kyle_Johansen
03-27-2013, 04:09 AM
My God, both of you shut up.

juan27
03-27-2013, 04:17 AM
All I hear is "Whaaaa Whaaaa Whaaaaa", just like at the ceremony after the Australian Open Final in 2009.

By the way, why bringing Nole in the conversation when you keep offending and insulting him on the forum nonstop?
A typical coward Fedturd, just like you crying 19-time bitchslapped Swiss Miss :devil:

19 times and counting :wavey:

ohh , interesting.

BroTree123
03-27-2013, 04:25 AM
Even if this happens, this won't make Fed's achivements any less impressive. Pretty normal to see him lose quite often to these guys when he is very far from his prime.

This. The most sensible post in this thread.

BackhandDTL
03-27-2013, 05:19 AM
Obviously Murray since losing to Nadal is unbearable and losing to Djoker slightly less bearable but still difficult as they would like to preserve the positive H2H...but I'm not Fed's fan so who knows what they're gonna say.

I don't know that it's that simple. I guess in the end it's subjective, and depends on who they tolerate/like more, but I think there are logical arguments to each:

Djokovic: No shame in losing to the current best. I imagine there's less "shame" in losing to the current number one in the midst of his prime while Fed's in the twillight of his career.

Murray: There's the fact that their important matches still rest in favor of Federer, despite Murray's lead in the H2H overall.

Nadal: Many Fed fans have resigned to the notion that Nadal is simply a crippling match-up to Fed, and perhaps they'd rather one awful H2H against someone who already owns his number, plus two tight ones (in either direction), than three increasingly worse ones.

Honestly
03-27-2013, 06:10 AM
You do realize that every time a Fedturd opens their mouth about Federina being GOAT, they will be reminded how many time Rafa spanked his little Swiss Miss! So 11 Slams for Rafa and being Federina's MASTER is perfectly fine for me!

Enjoy being a fan of a little crying bitch :devil:

Touched a nerve did I? :awww: :haha:

Sophocles
03-27-2013, 10:21 AM
Yes & it's not surprising as they're 5 years younger than him. Sampras had losing H2Hs against Hewitt & Roddick, after all.

GSMnadal
03-27-2013, 10:24 AM
Yes & it's not surprising as they're 5 years younger than him. Sampras had losing H2Hs against Hewitt & Roddick, after all.

Like what? 1-2 and 4-5?

A bit different than 19-10...

Sophocles
03-27-2013, 10:41 AM
Like what? 1-2 and 4-5?

A bit different than 19-10...

You would probably agree that Nadal's a bit different from Hewitt & Roddick....

Stefwhit
03-27-2013, 12:35 PM
Even if this happens, this won't make Fed's achivements any less impressive. Pretty normal to see him lose quite often to these guys when he is very far from his prime.

Not sure I 100% agree with that. At its worse, it will serve as a talking point when citing Fed as the game's greatest player of all time. It's definitely a talking point and will serve as such that the greatest player of all time had a losing record to his three biggest rivals.

I'm not making it bigger than it is, it's just one stat that doesn't fall Feds way so in the grand scheme of things it's not that big of a deal, but like I said it will serve as a "talking point" if that's how it stands when he retires. ...it's interesting to say the least, so I wouldn't totally be so dismissive about that stat, it's a stain for sure.

Sri
03-27-2013, 12:52 PM
All top players have losing H2H with top ranked players 5-6 years younger to them. Federer, Sampras you name it.

The sad thing is that while Nadal, Murray, Djokovic are worthy opponents, these guys might end up with losing H2H's with Tomic. :lol:

Of course Rafa (spartan that he is) might lose once, get scared, step off the court and not be seen for a few months.

Sri
03-27-2013, 12:53 PM
Like what? 1-2 and 4-5?

A bit different than 19-10...
Not really. It just shows how consistent Federer has been on clay to end up meeting Nadal so many times. :lol:

buzz
03-27-2013, 04:18 PM
had a losing record to his three biggest rivals.


Don't think Murray is in the top three of Federers biggest rivals(if you look at most important matches played). At least for now Roddick edges him.

And even if Murray plays more Semis and finals against Federer, does that hurt his legacy? it just means Federer had to play on until after his prime to finally find some players who could consistently beat him. And Murray will probably still be someone who was third best of his generation.

In an era where physical strength and movement is in general better and with less injuries and more consistency than the previous era. This is not only for the top guys. This is how tennis evolved, this generation has learnt from the Ferrero Hewitt, Haas, Kuerten etc.

And the fact that Murray is really consistent the last 5 years doesn't mean, peak Murray is better than peak Hewitt, 33yo Agassi, Roddick, peak Safin, peak Gonzalez, Nalbandian, Davydenko etc, They just didn't meet as often because of injuries, inconsistency and for Agassi age, but we can't say they were worse for sure than Murray when they met in GS (semi)finals.

Kyle_Johansen
03-27-2013, 06:35 PM
Federer's three biggest rivals are Nadal, Roddick, and Djokovic, with Hewitt and Murray being 2nd tier.

The rivalry with Fed/Nole hasn't exactly been helped since 2007 since they haven't met in a Slam final since then. Many matches in semis of course but I want another GS final this year between them.

BauerAlmeida
03-27-2013, 06:42 PM
Federer's three biggest rivals are Nadal, Roddick, and Djokovic, with Hewitt and Murray being 2nd tier.

The rivalry with Fed/Nole hasn't exactly been helped since 2007 since they haven't met in a Slam final since then. Many matches in semis of course but I want another GS final this year between them.

He had a great rivalry with Nalbandian too.

Kyle_Johansen
03-27-2013, 06:45 PM
He had a great rivalry with Nalbandian too.

Loved that one because they were so similar. It was like the rivalry with Hewitt.

GSMnadal
03-27-2013, 06:59 PM
Not really. It just shows how consistent Federer has been on clay to end up meeting Nadal so many times. :lol:

They only have two more matches on clay than hardcourt :secret:

Kyle_Johansen
03-27-2013, 07:06 PM
They only have two more matches on clay than hardcourt :secret:

And there would be more on hardcourt if Rafa reached more HC finals between 2005-2007. Yeah yeah yeah "he wasn't strong on HC then", but he actually was. His results prove that.

And the HC season takes up much more of the season than clay. Fed could only meet Rafa at Monte Carlo, Rome, FO, and Hamburg/Madrid. Rafa could meet Fed at the AO, Dubai, IW, Miami, Canada, Cincy, USO, Madrid/Shanghai, Paris, and WTF. There should be more HC meetings but there aren't.

GSMnadal
03-27-2013, 07:22 PM
And there would be more on hardcourt if Rafa reached more HC finals between 2005-2007. Yeah yeah yeah "he wasn't strong on HC then", but he actually was. His results prove that.

And the HC season takes up much more of the season than clay. Fed could only meet Rafa at Monte Carlo, Rome, FO, and Hamburg/Madrid. Rafa could meet Fed at the AO, Dubai, IW, Miami, Canada, Cincy, USO, Madrid/Shanghai, Paris, and WTF. There should be more HC meetings but there aren't.

Ok, what results proved he was great on HC then? His first HC slam final came in 2009 :lol: He had a stretch where he won 4 HC tournaments at the end of 05, but apart from that?



What about these HC/non clay matches, since you're only focussing on 05-07 (when Nadal was nowhere near his best on HC), during 2010-11 where Roger 'dodged' Nadal when Nadal was at his HC best. And in slams especially.

Indian Wells 2011
Miami 2011
Wimbledon 2010/11 (thought I'd mention it since it's off clay and yes, come at me with 2012 and Nadal's injury, still one for Rafa)
US Open 2010
US Open 2011

It works both ways :shrug:

It's useless to look at matches that could've been. Check out the matches they did play and hardcourt and clay are more or less evenly balanced. Oh, and they're 6-6 on hardcourt, so like it would've made a difference.

That Roger's fans are crying that he didn't face a 19-20 year old Rafa on his best and Rafa's worst surface when he was in his prime to beef up the H2H, that says it all really.

Kyle_Johansen
03-27-2013, 07:39 PM
Yeah, Fed dodged Rafa in 2010 and 2011 at the USO by being one point away from facing him. And he dodged Rafa at IW by running into a hot Djokovic who was playing his best tennis ever.

Rafa was a fine HC player in his early days. Pushed Hewitt at AO2004 and 2005, reached Miami final in 05, won Montreal and Madrid in 05, won Dubai in 06, won IW and Montreal in 07, won Toronto in 08, plus made semis of Masters Cup in 2006 and 2007. He was good enough off clay to stay at number two for three straight years. He went over two years without winning a HC title until IW, and he never had a drought that long from 05-10.

Like I have said numerous times, Rafa is a bad matchup for Fed no matter what the surface. Only indoor hard is where Fed actually has a strategic advantage.

GSMnadal
03-27-2013, 07:44 PM
Yeah, Fed dodged Rafa in 2010 and 2011 at the USO by being one point away from facing him. And he dodged Rafa at IW by running into a hot Djokovic who was playing his best tennis ever.

Rafa was a fine HC player in his early days. Pushed Hewitt at AO2004 and 2005, reached Miami final in 05, won Montreal and Madrid in 05, won Dubai in 06, won IW and Montreal in 07, won Toronto in 08, plus made semis of Masters Cup in 2006 and 2007. He was good enough off clay to stay at number two for three straight years. He went over two years without winning a HC title until IW, and he never had a drought that long from 05-10.

Like I have said numerous times, Rafa is a bad matchup for Fed no matter what the surface. Only indoor hard is where Fed actually has a strategic advantage.

Take out the 7 months of injury troubles in that 'two year' drought. And no, he was good enough on clay to stay number two for three straight years, his clay points alone were good enough for that spot. As soon as he learnt how to play on hard he became #1 ;)

Pushing Hewitt....yeah, that says it all. A decent Rafa would easily beat him, but he was a kid, what can you expect. Consistency is the biggest problem for great youngsters. So it's not shocking he had a few hardcourt titles, but it would be ridiculous to expect of him to reach just about every final on his worst surface as a teenager.

Kyle_Johansen
03-27-2013, 07:52 PM
Of all of the HC Masters Rafa has won, 4 of the 6 came before 2009. Hewitt was at his best as a youngster, and Rafa was no different. May have been inconsistent, but he was good enough to win 4 Masters on hard from 19-22.

Dunno why I thought Rafa won Montreal in 2007.

luie
03-27-2013, 07:52 PM
People bringing up Sampras to prove h2h with other rivals and generation.
Silly baseless arguements from nadull tards n nole trolls.
1. Sampras suck on clay.
2. Sampras retired at 31years . 2002 . USO. If fed had followed the same route he would be retired already . In that time frame he lost to Murray/ Novak/ nadull.

luie
03-27-2013, 08:01 PM
While being younger nadull RESTED a lot during his career , aided by modern technology and slow courts allowed him the advantage.
The scientific one.

juan27
03-27-2013, 08:07 PM
nadal`s tards say that nadal after 2007 started to won in grass and peaked in hardcourts.

but maybe nadal wasn`t that good on hardcourts , because after 2007 , many surfaces started to slow down , like the rebound ace of australia to this shit of plexicushion , masters cup more slow too , the same with us open and with the rolls of grass in wimby

luie
03-27-2013, 08:24 PM
As to the question , yes he will end his career on a losing h2h with these guys but it's irrelevant because he is mentally stronger than All of them.
Career wise.
Nadull once he is beaten by a relative unknown runs Like a coward and "fakes and injury" work on his game , come back stronger and well rested. Happen with Soderling n Rosol to name the prominent ones.
He is afraid to compete while not a 100% physically and mentally.
Murray is a choker n Novak while he cleaned up his act while going Gluten free. Originally had a reputation as a faker.
Fed is the only top player to play consistently through out his career under most conditions.
Unfortunately there is a price to PAY for unparalleled GREATNESS and longevity.
GOAT.

BauerAlmeida
03-27-2013, 08:42 PM
As to the question , yes he will end his career on a losing h2h with these guys but it's irrelevant because he is mentally stronger than All of them.


Not really.

Kyle_Johansen
03-27-2013, 08:52 PM
Fed has the mental strength to play hard while not at one hundred percent and always play and accept losses even when he is compromised from injury. That he never makes injury excuses even when it is clear it is bothering him shows that.

Singularity
03-27-2013, 09:01 PM
That Roger's fans are crying that he didn't face a 19-20 year old Rafa on his best and Rafa's worst surface when he was in his prime to beef up the H2H, that says it all really.
It's pretty much impossible to have a 'fair' H2H given the difference in peaks between the two players. Also, nearly all their HC meetings are at AO/IW/Miami and the WTF, with almost nothing in between.

Federer typically plays poorly at the beginning of the year, and Nadal plays poorly at the end. Who comes out top in the H2H depends on who gets more matches in his favorite period.

misty1
03-27-2013, 09:21 PM
he will against murray and nadal but he might be able to keep a positive one with djokovic

Brick Top
03-27-2013, 09:42 PM
No chance for Djoker here tbh.

Honestly
03-27-2013, 10:28 PM
As to the question , yes he will end his career on a losing h2h with these guys but it's irrelevant because he is mentally stronger than All of them.
Career wise.
Nadull once he is beaten by a relative unknown runs Like a coward and "fakes and injury" work on his game , come back stronger and well rested. Happen with Soderling n Rosol to name the prominent ones.
He is afraid to compete while not a 100% physically and mentally.
Murray is a choker n Novak while he cleaned up his act while going Gluten free. Originally had a reputation as a faker.
Fed is the only top player to play consistently through out his career under most conditions.
Unfortunately there is a price to PAY for unparalleled GREATNESS and longevity.
GOAT.

Always enjoy your posts and insights luie. Too smart for MTF that's for sure.

janko05
03-27-2013, 10:30 PM
As to the question , yes he will end his career on a losing h2h with these guys but it's irrelevant because he is mentally stronger than All of them.
Career wise.
Nadull once he is beaten by a relative unknown runs Like a coward and "fakes and injury" work on his game , come back stronger and well rested. Happen with Soderling n Rosol to name the prominent ones.
He is afraid to compete while not a 100% physically and mentally.
Murray is a choker n Novak while he cleaned up his act while going Gluten free. Originally had a reputation as a faker.
Fed is the only top player to play consistently through out his career under most conditions.
Unfortunately there is a price to PAY for unparalleled GREATNESS and longevity.
GOAT.

cool story bro :no:

Roy Emerson
03-27-2013, 10:31 PM
As to the question , yes he will end his career on a losing h2h with these guys but it's irrelevant because he is mentally stronger than All of them.
Career wise.
Nadull once he is beaten by a relative unknown runs Like a coward and "fakes and injury" work on his game , come back stronger and well rested. Happen with Soderling n Rosol to name the prominent ones.
He is afraid to compete while not a 100% physically and mentally.
Murray is a choker n Novak while he cleaned up his act while going Gluten free. Originally had a reputation as a faker.
Fed is the only top player to play consistently through out his career under most conditions.
Unfortunately there is a price to PAY for unparalleled GREATNESS and longevity.
GOAT.

QFT.

Corey Feldman
03-27-2013, 10:39 PM
one of the best posts of all time luie

StevieMardenboro
03-27-2013, 11:12 PM
He will and it will taint his legacy but only a little bit

Federer for a significant chunk of his career will have been among the best players but not the outright best when the field was at its strongest. However he was past his best for much of this and still winning slams or no 1 in the world during some of these years aswell 08, 09, 10 and 2012.

Being marginally behind Murray and Djok won't be that big a deal. Fed beat Murray in every important match up until the Olympic final ( I think for Fed this was an important match) and their career achievements won't ever compare.

He leads Djokovic at moment as a 31-year-old and beat him in slams in 2011 and 2012 to end his streak and take world no 1 slot off him respectively. It feels like any more defeats for Fed from now on will be seen as time catching up with him rather than great players toppling him.

The elephant in the room is of course Nadal in terms of Federer's legacy. 19-10 doesn't bother me too much. Fed fans can also cling to the lots of clay matches and its a match up issue. However 8-2 in slams bothers me a lot as regardless of the match up issues, slam finals is where it counts. Watching the 07 Wimbledon final the other day and it could easily have been 1-9.

Fed fans can always point to his records and the brilliance of his play to say he is the GOAT but I think Nadal's important victories over him mean he can never be the undisputed GOAT.

atennisfan
03-27-2013, 11:22 PM
Why does the title say Federer will end his career with a losing H-2-H against Djokovic?

As far as I know, it's still 16-13 in Federer's favor.

atennisfan
03-27-2013, 11:25 PM
As to the question , yes he will end his career on a losing h2h with these guys but it's irrelevant because he is mentally stronger than All of them.
Career wise.
Nadull once he is beaten by a relative unknown runs Like a coward and "fakes and injury" work on his game , come back stronger and well rested. Happen with Soderling n Rosol to name the prominent ones.
He is afraid to compete while not a 100% physically and mentally.
Murray is a choker n Novak while he cleaned up his act while going Gluten free. Originally had a reputation as a faker.
Fed is the only top player to play consistently through out his career under most conditions.
Unfortunately there is a price to PAY for unparalleled GREATNESS and longevity.
GOAT.


QFT!

atennisfan
03-27-2013, 11:30 PM
Federer for a significant chunk of his career will have been among the best players but not the outright best when the field was at its strongest.

Federer was arguably the best player during 2011 WTF - 2012 Cincy, where he overtook #1 ranking. And that's him being 31 yo, against a field that includes 3 very strong players at their primes.


he can never be the undisputed GOAT.

no one is ever undisputed GOAT. There's always someone who disagrees.

Honestly
03-27-2013, 11:31 PM
Why does the title say Federer will end his career with a losing H-2-H against Djokovic?

As far as I know, it's still 16-13 in Federer's favor.

Because the OP is a troll. Roger can easily end with a positive h2h against Djoker still.

heya
03-28-2013, 01:36 AM
Fed's known for losing 2 set leads and much younger guys beat him so often every year. He wishes he plays ball bashing fat clowns every year.

He is a legend in his own mind, because without the easy Year End Championships after Davis Cup (he doesn't play Davis Cup), Basel and Wimbledon matches, he'd be losing 4/5 times to the top 3 opponents any year.
If every top 4 player's 25 yrs. old, Fed wouldn't have a chance to play in 5 finals.... Unlike in the 2003-6 era.

GameSetMatch!
03-28-2013, 02:40 AM
I'm a naughty naughty girl.

janko05
03-28-2013, 02:54 AM
I'm a naughty naughty girl.

welcome back