The most incredible year - McEnroe's 1984??? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

The most incredible year - McEnroe's 1984???

motasek
01-12-2005, 09:41 PM
I am wondering: was McEnroe's 1984 the most dominant performance in the history (only 2 Slams but competing Connors)? Or, maybe, considering today's competition, it was 2004 by Federer (3 Slams and no real in-form competition). What do you think?

Auscon
01-13-2005, 12:57 PM
in the Open era, Im pretty sure it is

they pulled up a stat yesterday during coverage of Kooyong I think, showing Macs winning % for that year as being the highest of any dominant year for a player in the open era

jtipson
01-13-2005, 01:14 PM
McEnroe's 1984 winning percentage was .9647 (82-3), as opposed to Federer's .925 (74-6). Lendl also did 74-6 one year in the 80s, can't remember which now.

alfajeffster
01-17-2005, 06:09 PM
I never agreed with the premise of considering a players' dominance in any given year by a winning percentage. All of the players consider the Majors the ones to win, and anyone who has won 3 Majors in a year has accomplished more than a player who only won 2, regardless of what their percentages were. Rod Laver won the Grand Slam in 1969, and I think John McEnroe himself would consider that a more incredible year than his own 1984. You could also look at Jimmy Connors' 1974 as a more dominating year than McEnroe's 84. Jimmy won all of the Majors he was allowed to play- the ITF sanctioned and prevented him from playing the French, otherwise he very well may have won a Grand Slam that year.

HanaFanGA
02-09-2005, 04:29 PM
I rarely rooted for Mac in those days so 1984 wasn't my favorite year for men's tennis! ;) But I'd give him the nod for most dominating - he deserves it whether I was cheering against him or not. In fact, looking back, I wonder if his career went on the decline after that year because he had sort of reached a summitt and had no where to go but down? The Wimbledon final against Conners was just an awesome display of domination of another great champion. :worship:

KCVH
03-06-2005, 12:41 PM
At first didn't like John Mcenroe, 84 was a great year. Considering cause of his behaviour he missed out an the AUS-Open. Could've had a more impressive record. Never seen such a dominating player. The Jimmy Connors of 74 came close, unhappily he missed out on the French Open. Think both Big Mac and Jimbo probably would've won more GS's if they didn't boycot the AUS-Open.

willie
03-07-2005, 04:13 PM
the most dominant year was 1977 of Guillermo Vilas, he won two grand slams(roland garros and us open) that year, we have to remember that those where the years of other great players as borg, connors and nastase. vilas made two history record that year, he won 16 single titles in an year and 50 consecutive matches won, losing the record to nastase in a final then in the same year he got the second best record of consecutive matches won that are 49. in that incredible 77 vilas won springfield(indoor, carpet), buenos aires(clay), roland garros(clay), kitzbuhel(clay), washington(hard), louisville(hard), south orange(hard), columbus(hard), us open(clay), paris(clay), tehran(clay), bogota(clay), chile(clay), buenos aires 2(clay), johannesburg(hard), virginia beach(hard). that same year he also reach but lost in 5 finals, the most important in australian open where he lost againts vitas girulaitis. he also won 4 doubles titles that same year.

1977 the year of Guillermo Vilas.

Dirk
03-08-2005, 02:29 PM
Yet Willie he still was not number one. :rolleyes:

willie
03-09-2005, 02:47 PM
yes becuase they counted the points of 2 years not like know that are the points of 1 year, if it was like now he would have been number 1.
being number 2 in the world in the ages of borg, nastase, connors, mcenroe, etc, isnt so bad.

Dirk
03-11-2005, 02:50 AM
When you win 16 titles a feat that will never be match including two slams and I think he won several masters titles. You deserve to be number one. Vilas still gets ticked off by the slight, but oh well he was way cooler than Connors ever was.

NYCtennisfan
10-29-2005, 08:06 AM
the most dominant year was 1977 of Guillermo Vilas, he won two grand slams(roland garros and us open) that year, we have to remember that those where the years of other great players as borg, connors and nastase. vilas made two history record that year, he won 16 single titles in an year and 50 consecutive matches won, losing the record to nastase in a final then in the same year he got the second best record of consecutive matches won that are 49. in that incredible 77 vilas won springfield(indoor, carpet), buenos aires(clay), roland garros(clay), kitzbuhel(clay), washington(hard), louisville(hard), south orange(hard), columbus(hard), us open(clay), paris(clay), tehran(clay), bogota(clay), chile(clay), buenos aires 2(clay), johannesburg(hard), virginia beach(hard). that same year he also reach but lost in 5 finals, the most important in australian open where he lost againts vitas girulaitis. he also won 4 doubles titles that same year.

1977 the year of Guillermo Vilas.

Yes, if we used the system we do now, he would have been #1. It was a great year by Vilas but how many times did he beat his great rival Bjorn Borg that year? Vilas was 0-3 against him that year. Borg didn't play RG that year and Vilas got his opening. I think that takes away from the year in a way.

McEnroe in 1984 was nearly unbreakable and hardly anyone could take a set from him. He lost ony 20 out of 224 sets played that year, winning an astonishing 91% of all sets played. He also beat his two closest rivals mercilessly that year. He was 7-1 against Lendl and 6-0 against Connors. He was also 4-0 against Wilander.

TennisGrandSlam
01-19-2006, 11:00 AM
Vilas in 1977, 16 singles titles and 6 runners-up

http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/playerprofiles/playeractivity/default.asp?year=1977&query=Singles&player=V028&x=17&y=1

Australian Open : Runner-up
Roland Garros : Winner
Wimbledon : R32
US Open : Winner

Singles Titles:
Springfield
Buenos Aires
Virginia Beach
Roland Garros
Kitzbuhel
Washington
Louisville
South Orange
Columbus
US Open
Paris
Tehran
Bogota
Santiago
Buenos Aires -2
Johannesburg WCT




Connors in 1977, 7 singles titles and 6 runners-up

http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/playerprofiles/playeractivity/default.asp?year=1977&query=Singles&player=C044&x=11&y=8

Australian Open : Do not play
Roland Garros : Do not play
Wimbledon : Runner-up
US Open : Runner-up

Singles Titles:
Birmingham WCT
St. Louis WCT
Las Vegas
Dallas WCT
Maui
Sydney Indoor
Masters

TennisGrandSlam
01-20-2006, 08:47 AM
I never agreed with the premise of considering a players' dominance in any given year by a winning percentage. All of the players consider the Majors the ones to win, and anyone who has won 3 Majors in a year has accomplished more than a player who only won 2, regardless of what their percentages were. Rod Laver won the Grand Slam in 1969, and I think John McEnroe himself would consider that a more incredible year than his own 1984. You could also look at Jimmy Connors' 1974 as a more dominating year than McEnroe's 84. Jimmy won all of the Majors he was allowed to play- the ITF sanctioned and prevented him from playing the French, otherwise he very well may have won a Grand Slam that year.


McEnroe's 1984 has some characteristics (82-3 including 13 ATP Events + Davis Cup + World Team Cup)

1. 13 ATP Events Champions, 1 ATP Events Final (Roland Garros)

2. Davis Cup Final (He plays more Singles matches) and World Team Cup (Team Singles) Champion.

3. Counting all ATP Events and World Team Cup, he won at least 2 titles for all 3 surface : Grass, Hardcourt and Clay.

Overall, he entered all Singles tournament finals except Cincinnati (Early loser in 1st Round) - 14 Winners and 2 Runners-up.


I can't find any other players has such high-ratio final rate (16 of 17 Final)

robrulz5
02-05-2006, 10:17 PM
Winning Grand Slams is what it's all about. Federer's '04 was just awesome.

casabe
02-06-2006, 03:36 PM
we are talking about year not ranking...vilas in 1977 was the most incredible year

TennisGrandSlam
07-31-2006, 02:49 PM
we are talking about year not ranking...vilas in 1977 was the most incredible year

But there was Rod Laver perfect 1969.

Dancing Hero
08-05-2006, 03:37 PM
In the Open era, Laver's 69 Grand Slam has to come top regardless of overall match record for the year. After that, I would place Connors' 74 just ahead of McEnroe's 84 as Jimmy won 3 out of the 4 Slams, was not allowed to play in the French and had a 99-4 record for the year himself according to the record books. Mac's 84 was a sensational year though and he produced tennis to match anyone who's ever played, including Federer. Mac had a better percentage than Federer's 04 and I would place Mac's year ahead of Federer 04 as Mac looked more dominating if anything.

TennisGrandSlam
08-06-2006, 09:53 AM
In the Open era, Laver's 69 Grand Slam has to come top regardless of overall match record for the year. After that, I would place Connors' 74 just ahead of McEnroe's 84 as Jimmy won 3 out of the 4 Slams, was not allowed to play in the French and had a 99-4 record for the year himself according to the record books. Mac's 84 was a sensational year though and he produced tennis to match anyone who's ever played, including Federer. Mac had a better percentage than Federer's 04 and I would place Mac's year ahead of Federer 04 as Mac looked more dominating if anything.


Single Year Grand Slam Finals by 1 player since Open Era


4 Finals, 4 win - Laver (1969)


3 Finals &
3 win - Connors (1974 : Australian Open, Wimbledon, US Open)
3 win - Wilander (1988 : Australian Open, Roland Garros, US Open)
3 win - Federer (2004 : Australian Open, Wimbledon, US Open)
2 win - Vilas (1977 : Roland Garros, US Open, runner-up of Australian Open - Jan.)
2 win - Borg (1978, 1980 : Roland Garros, Wimbledon, runner-up of US Open)
2 win - McEnroe (1984 : Wimbledon, US Open, runner-up of Roland Garros)
2 win - Lendl (1986, 1987 : Roland Garros, US Open, runner-up of Wimbledon)
2 win - Sampras (1995 : Wimbledon, US Open, runner-up of Australian Open,)
2 win - Agassi (1999 : Roland Garros, US Open, runner-up of Wimbledon)
2 win * - Federer (2006 : Australian Open, Wimbledon, runner-up of Roland Garros)
1 win - Borg (1981 : Roland Garros, runner-up of Wimbledon, runner-up of US Open)
1 win - Courier (1993 : Australian Open, runner-up of Roland Garros, runner-up of Wimbledon)
0 win - Connors (1975 : runner-up of Australian Open, runner-up of Wimbledon, runner-up of US Open)



* - on-going

1 win

Dancing Hero
08-06-2006, 12:51 PM
Single Year Grand Slam Finals by 1 player since Open Era


4 Finals, 4 win - Laver (1969)


3 Finals &
3 win - Connors (1974 : Australian Open, Wimbledon, US Open)
3 win - Wilander (1988 : Australian Open, Roland Garros, US Open)
3 win - Federer (2004 : Australian Open, Wimbledon, US Open)
2 win - Vilas (1977 : Roland Garros, US Open, runner-up of Australian Open - Jan.)
2 win - Borg (1978, 1980 : Roland Garros, Wimbledon, runner-up of US Open)
2 win - McEnroe (1984 : Wimbledon, US Open, runner-up of Roland Garros)
2 win - Lendl (1986, 1987 : Roland Garros, US Open, runner-up of Wimbledon)
2 win - Sampras (1995 : Wimbledon, US Open, runner-up of Australian Open,)
2 win - Agassi (1999 : Roland Garros, US Open, runner-up of Wimbledon)
2 win * - Federer (2006 : Australian Open, Wimbledon, runner-up of Roland Garros)
1 win - Borg (1981 : Roland Garros, runner-up of Wimbledon, runner-up of US Open)
1 win - Courier (1993 : Australian Open, runner-up of Roland Garros, runner-up of Wimbledon)
0 win - Connors (1975 : runner-up of Australian Open, runner-up of Wimbledon, runner-up of US Open)



* - on-going

1 win

Hello! :D

Richard_from_Cal
08-10-2006, 08:45 PM
McEnroe's 1984 winning percentage was .9647 (82-3), as opposed to Federer's .925 (74-6). Lendl also did 74-6 one year in the 80s, can't remember which now.Hard to argue with statistics, but I'm gonna try. :devil:

As a fellow Californio, the sad-he's-forgotten Henry Ellsworth Vines, Jr., is not remembered by most Tennis fans (current,) but all-time Great Jack Kramer puts "Elly" as one of the two best of all time, in his book. The other candidate for Best of All Time in Jack's book was Don Budge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Budge). Which includes having seen: "Bill Tilden, Fred Perry, Bobby Riggs, and Pancho Gonzales. After these six came the "second echelon" of Rod Laver, Lew Hoad, Ken Rosewall, Gottfried von Cramm, Ted Schroeder, Jack Crawford, Pancho Segura, Frank Sedgman, Tony Trabert, John Newcombe, Arthur Ashe, Stan Smith, Björn Borg, and Jimmy Connors." --Note no mention of John McEnroe.--]..see note, on wikipedia page.. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellsworth_Vines)

http://www.tennisfame.com/enshrinees/ellsworth_vines.html <--Ellsworth Vines's page at the International Tennis Hall of Fame

In 1932, he won Wimbledon, and the U.S....won four of eight tournaments he entered, went 9-1 in Davis Cup [heart-rending loss for the U.S.A. to France,] and compiled a 46-5 match record.


{His son, Ellsworth Vines III has written his life story--The Greatest Athlete of All Time.....link to Barnes & Noble page for book.. (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?z=y&ath=Ellsworth+Vines+III)}
===================
"He was twice in the top ten of golf money winnings," writes Kramer, "and he was surely the best athlete ever in the two sports." He compares Vines, however, to another great tennis player, Lew Hoad. "Both were very strong guys. Both succeeded at a very young age.... Also, both were very lazy guys. Vines lost interest in tennis (for golf) before he was thirty, and Hoad never appeared to be very interested. Despite their great natural ability, neither put up the outstanding records that they were capable of. Unfortunately, the latter was largely true because both had physical problems."

Lendl's Forehand
10-12-2006, 05:22 AM
My thoughts - until Federer started dominating men's tennis, Mac '84 was the best, most dominant male player I ever saw. He ran through the field at both Wimby and the US Open. And he ran through the French Open up to the point of being up 2 sets to love and 4-2 in the 3rd set agaimst Lendl - then he choked big time. My favorite player at the time was Lendl and Ivan could do nothing to stop Mac even on clay (see their Forest Hills match leading up to the French Open). Mac had to stop himself. Mac was scary in '84. His 2nd serve was better and more effective than the majority of players' 1st serves. In '84 Mac's timing was so good that he would stand a foot inside the baseline during rallies and essentialy half-volley everything back - moving the ball from side to side and changing spins and speeds the whole time. He even did this against Lendl and Connors - the big hitters of that era. His chip and charge was so good he was even coming in on Lendl's 1st serve from time to time! And as for that loss in Cincy to Vijay - Mac tanked that match. No doubt. Very obvious. He wanted to rest up for the US Open.

Then after the '84 US Open, he started partying with Alana Stewart, doing coke, and not practicing. He thought he would stay as great as he ever was but it didn't happen.

Mac's devastating performances in '84 - WCT Finals against Connors, Wimby finals against Connors, Forest Hills finals against Lendl, Masters Final against Lendl, US Open final against Lendl.

Dancing Hero
10-12-2006, 06:19 PM
Mac 84 was talked about the way they talk about Federer now. Should have won the 3 GS he contested definitely. He was absolutely dominant and threw away the French because he WAS Mac. Strange how he went from being so on top to falling away like he did at the age of 25/26. Must have lost his hunger or led the wrong lifestyle, too much money, whatever. Still, a great player.

ExcaliburII
10-27-2006, 10:16 AM
Vilas 77's is over Mac's 84 but no over laver's 69.

TennisGrandSlam
11-01-2006, 01:48 PM
Vilas 77's is over Mac's 84 but no over laver's 69.

Vilas 77's ~ Mac's 84

JMac has highest final rate (14 tournaments + World Team Cup + DC)

Dancing Hero
11-01-2006, 03:57 PM
Vilas 77's is over Mac's 84 but no over laver's 69.


Ha ha, yeah, sure Vilas 77 is over Mac 84. You made me laugh.:)

I've been looking at Vilas' record for 1977 and guess what? He lost 2 times to Brian Gottfried, 3 times to Borg including the Masters semi final, lost to Billy Martin in the third round at Wimbledon, a bad loss, and Vilas also lost to Roscoe Tanner in the final of the Australian Open at the start of the year.

Vilas won RG with an absent Borg.

Mac was by far and away the best player of 84. No one was missing. He thrashed Lendl something like 6-1 for the year and Connors 6-0. He reached the finals of RG, Wimbledon and the US Open, destroying Connors and Lendl in straight sets in the Wimbledon and US finals and threw away a 2 sets to love lead in the French. In addition, Mac also won the Masters, again destroying Lendl, and the WCT title in Dallas. He had an 82-3 record for the year I believe, including helping the USA to the Davis Cup final and winning the World Team Cup, an amazing year.

Dancing Hero
11-01-2006, 04:13 PM
I forgot. Connors 74 is over Vilas 77 as well! :)

TennisGrandSlam
11-02-2006, 11:03 AM
I forgot. Connors 74 is over Vilas 77 as well! :)

Connors had many 16/32-draw Mickey Mouse titles (need to play 4 round) in his home country :smoke:

(Roanoke, Little Rock, Birmingham, Salt Lake City)

Dancing Hero
11-02-2006, 12:57 PM
Connors had many 16/32-draw Mickey Mouse titles (need to play 4 round) in his home country :smoke:

(Roanoke, Little Rock, Birmingham, Salt Lake City)


Vilas had 16 man draw wins in Buenos Aires and Virginia Beach in 1977 as well (4 round).

I forgot to mention Ilie Nastase beat Vilas at Aix en Provence 77 when Vilas retired when 2 sets down. That's another loss for Vilas in 1977 then!:)



:smoke:

TennisGrandSlam
11-02-2006, 02:36 PM
Vilas had 16 man draw wins in Buenos Aires and Virginia Beach in 1977 as well (4 round).

I forgot to mention Ilie Nastase beat Vilas at Aix en Provence 77 when Vilas retired when 2 sets down. That's another loss for Vilas in 1977 then!:)



:smoke:

Nastase use the illegal racquet :mad:

ATP should declare the Romanian lost the game. Because the racquet was then permanently banned.

(Vilas should has official 73 winning streak! :cool: )

TennisGrandSlam
11-02-2006, 02:42 PM
Vilas had 16 man draw wins in Buenos Aires and Virginia Beach in 1977 as well (4 round).

I forgot to mention Ilie Nastase beat Vilas at Aix en Provence 77 when Vilas retired when 2 sets down. That's another loss for Vilas in 1977 then!:)



:smoke:


Connors won in Anglo-Saxon dominated countries only - 4 countries. (USA, UK, Australia, S. Africa) :devil:

Vilas won over 5 continents. :devil:

Dancing Hero
11-02-2006, 05:17 PM
Connors won in Anglo-Saxon dominated countries only - 4 countries. (USA, UK, Australia, S. Africa) :devil:

Vilas won over 5 continents. :devil:

Doesn't make a difference how many continents he won on. Connors won everywhere. Anglo-Saxon dominated? Never heard such nonsense before.:)

Both Connors 74 (Wimbledon, US Open and Australian Open) and Mac 84 ( Wimbledon, US Open and Masters) were better than Vilas 77. That's just the way it is.

And both number no.1.:)

:cool:

TennisGrandSlam
11-03-2006, 09:14 AM
Doesn't make a difference how many continents he won on. Connors won everywhere. Anglo-Saxon dominated? Never heard such nonsense before.:)

Both Connors 74 (Wimbledon, US Open and Australian Open) and Mac 84 ( Wimbledon, US Open and Masters) were better than Vilas 77. That's just the way it is.

And both number no.1.:)

:cool:


Connors' Masters is held in 1978 - I means that why Vilas in Dec 1977 was still NO.2

(Within 1977, actually Vilas has 2 Slam totally 16 titles and 6 runners-up, but Connors had 6 titles and 6 runners-up, no ranking points derived from Masters by Connors before Dec 1977) :rolleyes:



(In 1977, Vilas 2-0 Connors) :devil:

Dancing Hero
11-03-2006, 01:08 PM
Connors' Masters is held in 1978 - I means that why Vilas in Dec 1977 was still NO.2

(Within 1977, actually Vilas has 2 Slam totally 16 titles and 6 runners-up, but Connors had 6 titles and 6 runners-up, no ranking points derived from Masters by Connors before Dec 1977) :rolleyes:



(In 1977, Vilas 2-0 Connors) :devil:


Yep. I agree Vilas had a better year than Connors in 1977.

( In 1977, Borg 3-0 over Vilas) :devil:

1977 in my view.
1.Borg
2.Vilas
3.Connors

By the way, Connors 74 and Mac 84 were better than Vilas 77.:) :devil:

TennisGrandSlam
11-03-2006, 02:05 PM
Yep. I agree Vilas had a better year than Connors in 1977.

( In 1977, Borg 3-0 over Vilas) :devil:

1977 in my view.
1.Borg
2.Vilas
3.Connors

By the way, Connors 74 and Mac 84 were better than Vilas 77.:) :devil:

Connors had no real rivals in 1974. :rolleyes:

Dancing Hero
11-03-2006, 03:20 PM
Connors had no real rivals in 1974. :rolleyes:


'Connors had no real rivals in 1974.' Another new excuse, Tennis Grand Slam.:)


:) :devil: :cool:

zanza67
12-19-2006, 10:34 PM
The best years:
1. John McEnroe, 1984 82-3, US Open, Wimbledon, RU French
2. Roger Federer 2006 92-5, 3 GS, all finals but Murray
3. Jimmy Connors 1974 99-4, 3 GS and 15 Tour wins

Osama B Hitler
12-20-2006, 06:30 AM
Mac '84 and Connors '74 were both better years than Vilas '77. By any way you measure it.

stebs
12-20-2006, 03:25 PM
Laver '69
Federer '06
Mac '84

Burrow
12-22-2006, 10:46 AM
Winning Grand Slams is what it's all about. Federer's '04 was just awesome.

its not what its all about...

TennisGrandSlam
01-04-2007, 07:18 AM
Mac '84 and Connors '74 were both better years than Vilas '77. By any way you measure it.

But Vilas in 1977 >> Connors in 1977

Shame on American, American stole Vilas of his NO.1. :mad:


http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=87323



Vilas in 1977

http://www.atptennis.com/5/en/players/playerprofiles/playeractivity.asp?query=Singles&year=1977&player=V028&selTournament=0&prevtrnnum=0

Australian Open (Jan.) : F
Roland Garros : W
Wimbledon : R32
US Open : W
Australian Open (Dec.) : DNP
Masters : SF

Titles / Runners-up : 16 / 6
Win-Loss : 128-14 * (non-ATP source claims 145-14)
Year-End Ranking : 2




Connors in 1977

http://www.atptennis.com/5/en/players/playerprofiles/playeractivity.asp?query=Singles&year=1977&player=C044&selTournament=0&prevtrnnum=0

Australian Open (Jan.) : DNP
Roland Garros : DNP
Wimbledon : F
US Open : F
Australian Open (Dec.) : DNP
Masters : W

Titles / Runners-up : 7/ 6
Win-Loss : 64-13
Year-End Ranking : 1