Is Tomic just a worse version of Murray? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Is Tomic just a worse version of Murray?

Nole Rules
03-23-2013, 11:07 PM
It would be funny if he ends up with a better career than Andy. Murray looked 10 times better than him at his age.

Nathaliia
03-23-2013, 11:09 PM
yeah but there are no up and comers, so tomic might still have a better career when the big 4, blake, haas and russell are gone

also, murray was more aggressive when young, less pushing than he presents nowadays

Mark Lenders
03-23-2013, 11:14 PM
No, I don't think they are similar at all. I actually think that, tennis-wise, Tomic is the more talented of the two - definitely has more raw power and tennis IQ imo - but Murray is physically more gifted and crucially has a much better attitude towards the sport, which is why he's the better player by far and it should remain that way.

Sombrerero loco
03-23-2013, 11:15 PM
lol no way, they are really different kind of player

Gallace..
03-23-2013, 11:16 PM
If he pulls his attitude in where it needs to be then he will do more than Murray because he won't have prime fed nadal djokovic to worry about. All he'll have is raonic and dimitrov and maybe Harrison too if he pulls his head in and magically produces weapons.

Brit Tennis Fan
03-23-2013, 11:25 PM
No, I don't think they are similar at all. I actually think that, tennis-wise, Tomic is the more talented of the two - definitely has more raw power and tennis IQ imo - but Murray is physically more gifted and crucially has a much better attitude towards the sport, which is why he's the better player by far and it should remain that way.

Murray was scrawny as hell when he was a kid. His physical attributes are a result of an awful lot of hard work and not down to any "gifts".

Brick Top
03-23-2013, 11:26 PM
Not worse but terrible.

Time Violation
03-23-2013, 11:52 PM
Not sure what's exactly similar. Tomic has awful movement unlike Murray and neither their FH, BH look much similar.

ProdigyEng
03-23-2013, 11:54 PM
No, I don't think they are similar at all. I actually think that, tennis-wise, Tomic is the more talented of the two - definitely has more raw power and tennis IQ imo - but Murray is physically more gifted and crucially has a much better attitude towards the sport, which is why he's the better player by far and it should remain that way.

LOL Murray is way more talented than Tomic

Saberq
03-24-2013, 12:02 AM
LOL Murray is way more talented than Tomic

how can you tell?

Federer in 2
03-24-2013, 12:04 AM
No.

Blue Heart24
03-24-2013, 12:06 AM
No, I don't think they are similar at all. I actually think that, tennis-wise, Tomic is the more talented of the two - definitely has more raw power and tennis IQ imo - but Murray is physically more gifted and crucially has a much better attitude towards the sport, which is why he's the better player by far and it should remain that way.

This.Fail thread.

The Prince
03-24-2013, 12:06 AM
They are different kinds of players. Tomic won't get anywhere near Andy's achievements though.

bjurra
03-24-2013, 12:08 AM
No, I don't think they are similar at all. I actually think that, tennis-wise, Tomic is the more talented of the two - definitely has more raw power and tennis IQ imo - but Murray is physically more gifted and crucially has a much better attitude towards the sport, which is why he's the better player by far and it should remain that way.

Lol Lenders, you don't troll very well these days.

delboy
03-24-2013, 12:17 AM
No, I don't think they are similar at all. I actually think that, tennis-wise, Tomic is the more talented of the two - definitely has more raw power and tennis IQ imo - but Murray is physically more gifted and crucially has a much better attitude towards the sport, which is why he's the better player by far and it should remain that way.

Sorry but just no. ridiculous thing to say.

mdterp01
03-24-2013, 12:17 AM
:lol: @ "worse version of Murray". Andy gets so much shade thrown at him!!!

Andi-M
03-24-2013, 12:21 AM
I'm confused about what this 'talent' Tomic has, I don't see anything unique or special about him? enlighten me please....

leng jai
03-24-2013, 12:23 AM
Someone please outline this so called massive talent Tomic is supposed to possess. Seems like everyone who voluntarily takes pace off the ball and uses lots of slice is automatically labelled as having high tennis IQ.

james_von05
03-24-2013, 12:26 AM
No, I don't think they are similar at all. I actually think that, tennis-wise, Tomic is the more talented of the two - definitely has more raw power and tennis IQ imo - but Murray is physically more gifted and crucially has a much better attitude towards the sport, which is why he's the better player by far and it should remain that way.

Tennis IQ than Murray? is this a joke? hahahaha

BackhandDTL
03-24-2013, 12:30 AM
also, murray was more aggressive when young, less pushing than he presents nowadays

I actually think "young, aggressive Murray", much like "super aggressive young Novak" actually, is somewhat overstated. Murray was aggressive at times, particularly for shades circa 2008, but much of his game was inherently defensive.

He counter-punched a lot, utilized the drop shot a ton, and really worked to neutralize his opponents' strengths more than anything. He wasn't necessarily initiating the action too much though, especially '06-'07.


Per the Tomic and Murray discussion: They are similar insofar as their deft and touch (which Murray utilizes considerably less these days), but that's where the discussion stops I think.

Cereal Killer
03-24-2013, 12:32 AM
No, I don't think they are similar at all. I actually think that, tennis-wise, Tomic is the more talented of the two - definitely has more raw power and tennis IQ imo - but Murray is physically more gifted and crucially has a much better attitude towards the sport, which is why he's the better player by far and it should remain that way.

That is one of the most hilarious assessments I have ever read. I hope you were serious.

Nole Rules
03-24-2013, 12:33 AM
Someone please outline this so called massive talent Tomic is supposed to possess. Seems like everyone who voluntarily takes pace off the ball and uses lots of slice is automatically labelled as having high tennis IQ.

Couldn't agree more.

Nole Rules
03-24-2013, 12:37 AM
No, I don't think they are similar at all. I actually think that, tennis-wise, Tomic is the more talented of the two - definitely has more raw power and tennis IQ imo - but Murray is physically more gifted and crucially has a much better attitude towards the sport, which is why he's the better player by far and it should remain that way.

I already know you dislike Murray but I didn't know you dislike him that much. :lol: I certainly disagree with you here. No way Tomic is more talented than Murray imo. If you think he is more talented, then tell me what makes him more talented than Murray? What he does better than Murray?

Moozza
03-24-2013, 12:42 AM
Clownders at it again I see :facepalm:

Murray has infinite more talent than Tomic, he is better in every single area of tennis you could possibly think of.

Mark Lenders
03-24-2013, 12:43 AM
I already know you dislike Murray but I didn't know you dislike him that much. :lol: I certainly disagree with you here. No way Tomic is more talented than Murray imo. If you think he is more talented, then tell me what makes him more talented than Murray? What he does better than Murray?

I don't care for Tomic enough to have this discussion in a place where I'm outnumbered by like 10 to 1 :lol:

But regardless of who the more talented player is, unless worse version simply means worse player then it's not the case here. Murray's main strenghts are what Tomic most struggles with - movement, defense, return of serve - while Tomic's most impressive attribute imo - the effortless power he can generate with his forehand - is precisely what Murray most struggles with. I don't see many similarities between the two at all.

Time Violation
03-24-2013, 12:45 AM
What he does better than Murray?

He drives a Ferrari... I bet you can't show me Murray's Ferrari :p

deyaT87
03-24-2013, 12:47 AM
:facepalm:
Murray is way better player in all areas than Tomic. I don't see anything special in Tomic's game :shrug:

Gris
03-24-2013, 12:50 AM
They were different kinds of player.

I hope Lenders can return his focus to Ferrer, your post here just sounds absurd.lol


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redshift36188
03-24-2013, 12:52 AM
They are very close in terms of talent. The main difference as Lenders said is their attitude towards the sport.

rocketassist
03-24-2013, 01:03 AM
Tomic does have many things in common with Murray but where he has the edge is the power he generates off the forehand wing- it's effortless. Andy has the edge in stamina, as a competitor, the backhand and the 1st serve. Tomic doesn't lack his slice and feel though, he has that in abundance.

rocketassist
03-24-2013, 01:05 AM
Someone please outline this so called massive talent Tomic is supposed to possess. Seems like everyone who voluntarily takes pace off the ball and uses lots of slice is automatically labelled as having high tennis IQ.

Master tacticians.

Orka_n
03-24-2013, 01:09 AM
They have absolutely nothing in common, nonsense thread

Mark Lenders
03-24-2013, 01:12 AM
Tomic does have many things in common with Murray but where he has the edge is the power he generates off the forehand wing- it's effortless. Andy has the edge in stamina, as a competitor, the backhand and the 1st serve. Tomic doesn't lack his slice and feel though, he has that in abundance.

Fair assessment. The key difference between the two is as competitors really, Murray is far ahead in that regard, at least so far. Being talented is just one part of the equation to success.

Offland
03-24-2013, 01:17 AM
Right now, Tomic's nowhere near Murray in many aspects ...What's most evident is his lack of stamina, poor movement ,not so good agility and speed...as for other areas,I'd say he doesn't possess something which is really crucial to be considered a threat to other players - undying fighting spirit.In my opinion he 's not enough dedicated to make any improvements.Too bad, he's undoubtedly gifted.

Topspindoctor
03-24-2013, 01:19 AM
Tomic is much better and more talented player than the Scot pusher. He brings excitement and inventive play to matches, while Mandy just waits for UE = no skill required.


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Offland
03-24-2013, 01:24 AM
Tomic is much better and more talented player than the Scot pusher. He brings excitement and inventive play to matches, while Mandy just waits for UE = no skill required.


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Are you on some kind of crusade:confused:

rocketassist
03-24-2013, 01:26 AM
Tomic is much better and more talented player than the Scot pusher. He brings excitement and inventive play to matches, while Mandy just waits for UE = no skill required.


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:lol:

Although this era is overrated in my opinion in five years time we'll have a serious mug era. If B-Nard peaks in that time, he might find some easy slams to vulture.

Brit Tennis Fan
03-24-2013, 01:29 AM
Right now, Tomic's nowhere near Murray in many aspects ...What's most evident is his lack of stamina, poor movement ,not so good agility and speed...as for other areas,I'd say he doesn't possess something which is really crucial to be considered a threat to other players - undying fighting spirit.In my opinion he 's not enough dedicated to make any improvements.Too bad, he's undoubtedly gifted.


I don't think he lacks stamina. He has played and won quite a few five set matches such as against Verdasco and Dolgopolov at the 2012 Aussie Open. It's just a matter of whether or not he can summon the will for a tough fight and more often than not he seemingly can't.

Cereal Killer
03-24-2013, 01:34 AM
Tomic is much better and more talented player than the Scot pusher. He brings excitement and inventive play to matches, while Mandy just waits for UE = no skill required.

I can hardly contain myself.

Offland
03-24-2013, 01:35 AM
I don't think he lacks stamina. He has played and won quite a few five set matches such as against Verdasco and Dolgopolov at the 2012 Aussie Open. It's just a matter of whether or not he can summon the will for a tough fight and more often than not he seemingly can't.

I agree.Seems like he gives up easily , so I think it can be counted as a lack of dedication :)

Alex999
03-24-2013, 01:40 AM
No, I don't think they are similar at all. I actually think that, tennis-wise, Tomic is the more talented of the two - definitely has more raw power and tennis IQ imo - but Murray is physically more gifted and crucially has a much better attitude towards the sport, which is why he's the better player by far and it should remain that way.
Mark, Mark ... more talented of the two? higher tennis IQ? Could I have whatever you are having please ;)? yeah, I know Tomic is the GOAT, sorry :lol:

Rick Rude
03-24-2013, 01:43 AM
The problem with Tomic (as much as I think he will eventually pull his finger out and get to the top) is that currently he only wants to do enough work to get the endorsements, fast cars and gash by the hour. He won't put the extra 5% in to start winning tournaments. You know what they say about hard work and talent...................

And saying in terms of talent that Tomic>>>>>>>>>>>>>Murray is like someone saying in terms of talent Liverpool>>>>>>>>>>>Manchester United.

If I said that out in public I would be sectioned tout suite :lol:

Mr. Oracle
03-24-2013, 01:46 AM
No, I don't think they are similar at all. I actually think that, tennis-wise, Tomic is the more talented of the two - definitely has more raw power and tennis IQ imo - but Murray is physically more gifted and crucially has a much better attitude towards the sport, which is why he's the better player by far and it should remain that way.

+1

There are many gifted athletes who fail to live up to their potential simply because they refuse to commit to the training and lifestyle that being a consistently top ranked pro demands. Tomic has that fatally indifferent attitude at his core, where his very bone marrow manufactures laziness cells. Only a head or personality transplant can cure this (maybe a bone marrow transplant from DjokoKing :shrug:, not sure if they're that close). Noleray's record at his age puts him to shame (if results are the ultimate measure). That said, maybe he's happy being a tour groupie and living the good life. Perhaps it's the smartest formula. Just ask philosopher and surf board packing Tipsarevic. Maybe deep down, not everyone cares about being numero uno! The risk is: will the cheerleaders give him the time of day if he drops out of the top 100? One must find the optimum balance between sloth and hard work. If I was his coach, that's what I'd tell him.

Brit Tennis Fan
03-24-2013, 01:54 AM
The problem with Tomic (as much as I think he will eventually pull his finger out and get to the top) is that currently he only wants to do enough work to get the endorsements, fast cars and gash by the hour. He won't put the extra 5% in to start winning tournaments. You know what they say about hard work and talent...................

Perhaps the problem was that he got endorsements, money and lavish attention at a really young age before he had really earned it.

MuzzahLovah
03-24-2013, 02:53 AM
Murray was scrawny as hell when he was a kid. His physical attributes are a result of an awful lot of hard work and not down to any "gifts".

Yep exactly. Murray isn't like Nadal, he didn't put on muscle until well into his twenties. He beat Fed(when he was #1 and virtually unbeatable) as a scrawny 19 year-old, purely on talent and will.

SerialKillerToBe
03-24-2013, 02:55 AM
No. Tomic will be a multi slam champion. Murray will forever be a one slam wonder. You can quote me on that.

MuzzahLovah
03-24-2013, 02:58 AM
Tomic does have many things in common with Murray but where he has the edge is the power he generates off the forehand wing- it's effortless. Andy has the edge in stamina, as a competitor, the backhand and the 1st serve. Tomic doesn't lack his slice and feel though, he has that in abundance.

It's effortless and wild and not very useful. When he winds up his big frying pan forehand he misses more often than not. Murray uses more spin(too much at times) to help with control, which is why he is apparently the master of windy conditions lol.

MuzzahLovah
03-24-2013, 03:01 AM
Really other than having good slice and touch, they are very different players. Dimitrov has decent slice and touch as well but that doesn't make him very similar to either player.

Honestly
03-24-2013, 03:04 AM
Tomic is starting to look like a worse version of De Voest. Never mind Murray.

Kyle_Johansen
03-24-2013, 03:33 AM
They are kind of similar in a way and even Andy said so. I think Tomic is very talented but he seems to lose his concentration a lot and loses focus of his gameplan.

Nole Rules
03-24-2013, 03:37 AM
Tomic is starting to look like a worse version of De Voest. Never mind Murray.

:superlol:

Mark Lenders
03-24-2013, 03:44 AM
I already know you dislike Murray but I didn't know you dislike him that much. :lol: I certainly disagree with you here. No way Tomic is more talented than Murray imo. If you think he is more talented, then tell me what makes him more talented than Murray? What he does better than Murray?

I'll reply more in depth when we next chat since as I said I don't care about Tomic enough to go into an argument where I'm outnumbered by about 10 to 1, but there is one point that I'd like to make here either way. Look at the current top 8, apart from Federer and maybe to a lesser extent Tsonga, all the current top 8 are either energizer bunnies or huge hitters off both wings. We're in an era of tennis where pure tennis talent takes a backseat to the players' physical prowess.

Good technique, touch, even tennis IQ is no longer enough to succeed; unless you're Roger Federer, you need either the power to hit through the slow courts or the court coverage and all around defensive abilities to track down those shots for 3/5 sets and return them deep. We're in a physical era, where you need a physical edge to succeed at the highest level, hence why I distinguised between raw tennis talent and physical talent in that post. Djokovic post 2011 is the prototypical player of this era of tennis, combining the ability to hit through the courts with the awesome defensive abilities, he's the epitome of the modern baselining machine, which is why he has found so much success.

The current conditions make it harder than ever to finish up points, you need a physical edge to do it at the highest level or, of course, stopping your opponent from doing it consistently.

hvo
03-24-2013, 04:04 AM
Whoever think Andy is more physically gifted should go back and watch the highlight of the AU 07 quarter final between AM and RN. AM was at the same age like Tomic now. He gave a good fight but ran out of gas in the end. I watched this match live and very impressed with him then. After other losses to Nadal (e.g Wimbledon that year) he has put so much effort to become physically stronger. I doubt Tomic can do the same.

atennisfan
03-24-2013, 04:12 AM
They are different kinds of players. Tomic won't get anywhere near Andy's achievements though.

When Tomic hits his prime at 25-26, who will he have?

men's Tennis is starting its age of darkness this year.

Dark Knight
03-24-2013, 04:19 AM
No. They are quite different both in their playing style and attitude.

Dark Knight
03-24-2013, 04:23 AM
I'll reply more in depth when we next chat since as I said I don't care about Tomic enough to go into an argument where I'm outnumbered by about 10 to 1, but there is one point that I'd like to make here either way. Look at the current top 8, apart from Federer and maybe to a lesser extent Tsonga, all the current top 8 are either energizer bunnies or huge hitters off both wings. We're in an era of tennis where pure tennis talent takes a backseat to the players' physical prowess.

Good technique, touch, even tennis IQ is no longer enough to succeed; unless you're Roger Federer, you need either the power to hit through the slow courts or the court coverage and all around defensive abilities to track down those shots for 3/5 sets and return them deep. We're in a physical era, where you need a physical edge to succeed at the highest level, hence why I distinguised between raw tennis talent and physical talent in that post. Djokovic post 2011 is the prototypical player of this era of tennis, combining the ability to hit through the courts with the awesome defensive abilities, he's the epitome of the modern baselining machine, which is why he has found so much success.

The current conditions make it harder than ever to finish up points, you need a physical edge to do it at the highest level or, of course, stopping your opponent from doing it consistently.

Yup totally agree. Djokovic is the perfect player for the current condition.

i believe there will be more players coming up with a similar pattern of play like him.

Kyle_Johansen
03-24-2013, 04:25 AM
Whoever think Andy is more physically gifted should go back and watch the highlight of the AU 07 quarter final between AM and RN. AM was at the same age like Tomic now. He gave a good fight but ran out of gas in the end. I watched this match live and very impressed with him then. After other losses to Nadal (e.g Wimbledon that year) he has put so much effort to become physically stronger. I doubt Tomic can do the same.

I think Bernie can and will if he gets more serious as he says he has. He is a big guy.

redshift36188
03-24-2013, 04:57 AM
Really other than having good slice and touch, they are very different players. Dimitrov has decent slice and touch as well but that doesn't make him very similar to either player.
Dimitrov is baby Fed and Tomic is baby Murray. Weird that some posters here can't see the similarity.

leng jai
03-24-2013, 05:13 AM
Dimitrov is baby Fed and Tomic is baby Murray. Weird that some posters here can't see the similarity.

Weird that someone can claim both pairings have the same level of similarity. Dimitrov has blatantly copied Federer in many aspects of his core game while Tomic has barely resemblance besides the fact they both slice regualrly and suppress their power output at times.

redshift36188
03-24-2013, 05:18 AM
I didn't claim the level of similarity is the same but I think it's still enough similar to call him baby Murray. Just look at how they carry their bodies, their groundstroke swings, etc.

leng jai
03-24-2013, 05:25 AM
I didn't claim the level of similarity is the same but I think it's still enough similar to call him baby Murray. Just look at how they carry their bodies, their groundstroke swings, etc.

What? Murray's movement and agility is on a different stratosphere. Tomi moves like Roddick in comparison. Tomic's forehand is unique on the tour - no one hits it like him. When he hits a flat forehand it's like a slap and seems almost like he cuts under the ball slightly. Murray's on the other hand is far more topspin centric so really it couldn't be anymore different. His backhand is also far stiffer looking than Murray's and less versatile.

Hewitt =Legend
03-24-2013, 05:38 AM
They are different kinds of players. Tomic won't get anywhere near Andy's achievements though.

Big call considering B-Nard's peak is about 4 years away...

There were some striking similarities with a teenage and early 20's Murray but the Scot has improved the physical aspect of his game significantly and his variation of pace off the ground has decreased in abundance and been replaced with an extremely solid and constant baseline game.

What? Murray's movement and agility is on a different stratosphere. Tomic in moves like Roddick in comparison. Tomic's forehand is unique on the tour - no one hits it like him. When he hits a flat forehand it's like a slap and seems almost looks like he cuts under the ball slightly. Murray's on the other hand is far more topspin centric so really it couldn't be anymore different. His backhand is also far stiffer looking than Murray's and less versatile.

Dunno if I'd call the backhand less versatile. B-Nard's slice when he is serious is up there with the best in the game. John Newcombe also agrees...

fivebargate
03-24-2013, 06:22 AM
He drives a Ferrari... I bet you can't show me Murray's Ferrari :p

Murray actually had a Ferrari at one point....but said he felt like a right twat, so got rid of it! :lol:

Punky
03-24-2013, 06:42 AM
I'm confused about what this 'talent' Tomic has, I don't see anything unique or special about him? enlighten me please....

Someone please outline this so called massive talent Tomic is supposed to possess. Seems like everyone who voluntarily takes pace off the ball and uses lots of slice is automatically labelled as having high tennis IQ.

Spot on.


And Andy at tomics age won MS and world n1, at tomics age more or less he was in a slam F

bouncer7
03-24-2013, 06:43 AM
He is worse than the worst version of Murray

Gallace..
03-24-2013, 06:58 AM
Spot on.


And Andy at tomics age won MS and world n1, at tomics age more or less he was in a slam F

Bit stupid to compare him to that....different era's completely in terms of the game..... ppl state everyday how things have changed yet there's ppl like you that still say these type of comparisons. :zzz:

MIMIC
03-24-2013, 07:06 AM
edit: n/m

Marcoo
03-24-2013, 10:12 AM
I've never actually though of it, but Tomic may be a worse version of Andy. I mean i dont think he'll ever oass Murray, that's impossible

Alex999
03-24-2013, 10:52 AM
What? Murray's movement and agility is on a different stratosphere. Tomic in moves like Roddick in comparison. Tomic's forehand is unique on the tour - no one hits it like him. When he hits a flat forehand it's like a slap and seems almost looks like he cuts under the ball slightly. Murray's on the other hand is far more topspin centric so really it couldn't be anymore different. His backhand is also far stiffer looking than Murray's and less versatile.
you are being too logical. why bother ;)?

born_on_clay
03-24-2013, 11:29 AM
Of coure not. Bernard will have a better career than Mandy.

paseo
03-24-2013, 11:34 AM
Tomic is more talented than Federer.

Punky
03-24-2013, 12:27 PM
Bit stupid to compare him to that....different era's completely in terms of the game..... ppl state everyday how things have changed yet there's ppl like you that still say these type of comparisons. :zzz:

It wasn't 20 yrs ago it was 4 yrs ago..

Dougie
03-24-2013, 12:39 PM
Someone please outline this so called massive talent Tomic is supposed to possess. Seems like everyone who voluntarily takes pace off the ball and uses lots of slice is automatically labelled as having high tennis IQ.

Exactly. Tomic has a very unconventional style, which may work against some players, but Federer for example showed at AO what happens when Tomic has to play against someone who is not troubled by slice and weird shots and who can hit through the ball and create pace. He had no answer. He tried to keep up and hit winners of his own but was completely out of his comfort zone. High tennis IQ would suggest a player can spot his opponents weaknesses and exploit them, and have multiple game plans, but Tomic does not.

As for similarites with Murray, I just don´t see them. His forehand has a very strange technique, lots of wrist but very flat. not at all like Murray´s who hits the ball hard and with topspin. Tomic slices the ball a lot from his backhand, Murray´s slice has improved a lot, but he doesn´t rely on it like Tomic, Murray can also really hit the ball. Actually, there´s another common misconception; Whenever someone uses a lot of slice backhand, it is instantly labeled as a great slice backhand. Federer is rarely mentioned having a great slice, but in reality it has much more penetration and variety then TOmic´s. Tomic´s serve is remarkably slow for someone his height, not cat all comparable to Murray. Murray´s 1st serve % could be higher, but he still has a much better serve than Tomic. I really don´t see where the similarities are.

BackhandDTL
03-24-2013, 01:06 PM
Exactly. Tomic has a very unconventional style, which may work against some players, but Federer for example showed at AO what happens when Tomic has to play against someone who is not troubled by slice and weird shots and who can hit through the ball and create pace. He had no answer. He tried to keep up and hit winners of his own but was completely out of his comfort zone. High tennis IQ would suggest a player can spot his opponents weaknesses and exploit them, and have multiple game plans, but Tomic does not. 1

As for similarites with Murray, I just don´t see them. His forehand has a very strange technique, lots of wrist but very flat. not at all like Murray´s who hits the ball hard and with topspin. Tomic slices the ball a lot from his backhand, Murray´s slice has improved a lot, but he doesn´t rely on it like Tomic2, Murray can also really hit the ball. Actually, there´s another common misconception; Whenever someone uses a lot of slice backhand, it is instantly labeled as a great slice backhand. Federer is rarely mentioned having a great slice3, but in reality it has much more penetration and variety then TOmic´s. Tomic´s serve is remarkably slow for someone his height, not cat all comparable to Murray. Murray´s 1st serve % could be higher, but he still has a much better serve than Tomic. I really don´t see where the similarities are.

Not for much, but, a few things...

1. I'm not sure that I buy into the notion that a high tennis IQ would suggest possessing the ability to execute multiple gameplans.

As for the constant references toward Tomic's "high tennis IQ". I think it's an intrinsic judgement based on the fact that his game is mostly devoid of a run-you-over or out-grind you style. He looks for alternative ways to win points, most of which involve utilizing different areas of the court and alternating spins and depth. Two exemplary shots of his that come to mind is the slice up the line ad-to-deuce, and the soft topspin forehand substituting a standard put-away.

With his apparent lack of everything else (movement, serve, etc. have all been criticized in this thread), I fail to see where any of his existing success has come from if he weren't a fairly intelligent player.

2. Murray has had a great slice bh for years - since at least 2009. I would also argue that back then, and before then, he was much more reliant on deft and variety (see v. Roddick Wim '06, v. Nadal AO '07), which is maybe why some people draw comparisons to Tomic.

3. Federer gets praised for his slice backhand all the time. Most people consider that the saving grace to his left side... Back in '06, when he toned down his aggression more in favor of point construction, the shot was a staple of his. The short-angled backhand slice to cross-court passing shot is just one combination that comes to mind.

If the praise has declined, in all fairness, it's because he really doesn't use it as much these days, much to the ire of some of his fans.

Jverweij
03-24-2013, 01:12 PM
totally different styles, their footwork is worlds apart, their attitude is different, so no. Tomic's attitude is pathetic though, this cannot be stressed enough. Playing world nr 3 (or 2 in a few weeks) and still he can't see the challenge. I wonder what it takes for his ego to collapse

leng jai
03-24-2013, 01:13 PM
Federer has always been praise for having a great slice but in this era the label is very much relative. Murray and Tomic don't have "great" slices, they're merely okay and produced more often than your typical modern player.

Jverweij
03-24-2013, 01:14 PM
Tomic is more talented than Federer.

:haha:

Hewitt =Legend
03-24-2013, 01:17 PM
People who are saying Tomic has never had any similarities to Murray should watch the AO 2007 4th round match between Muzza and Nadal. Of course they're different players today but the resemblance in their game styles back then when they were around the same age was uncanny...

leng jai
03-24-2013, 01:19 PM
People who are saying Tomic has never had any similarities to Murray should watch the AO 2007 4th round match between Muzza and Nadal. Of course they're different players today but the resemblance in their game styles back then when they were around the same age was uncanny...

One match that happened 6 years ago is pretty compelling evidence mate. Might have to fire up the VHS player just for this.

Hewitt =Legend
03-24-2013, 01:23 PM
One match that happened 6 years ago is pretty compelling evidence mate. Might have to fire up the VHS player just for this.

Shouldn't your VHS be on 24/7 mate? Only way to watch Hass when he was still relevant...

leng jai
03-24-2013, 01:30 PM
Shouldn't your VHS be on 24/7 mate? Only way to watch Hass when he was still relevant...

Taking a set off Bnard at a slam this year is the personification of relevance.

Asadinator
03-24-2013, 01:39 PM
Taking a set off Bnard at a slam this year is the personification of relevance.

Hopman Cup slam?

70-68
03-24-2013, 02:42 PM
I can see a few similarities, but they have different strenghts and weaknesses.

FleetSeb
03-24-2013, 02:54 PM
Tomic's forehand is one of the ugliest shots in tennis, and it is this shot more than anything that makes it hard for me to watch him. (Although it's not like Andy's forehand is incredible either)

70-68
03-24-2013, 03:14 PM
We're in an era of tennis where pure tennis talent takes a backseat to the players' physical prowess.

Good technique, touch, even tennis IQ is no longer enough to succeed; unless you're Roger Federer, you need either the power to hit through the slow courts or the court coverage and all around defensive abilities to track down those shots for 3/5 sets and return them deep. We're in a physical era, where you need a physical edge to succeed at the highest level, hence why I distinguised between raw tennis talent and physical talent in that post.

Lot of people are saying this. But what physical edge does 35 yo Haas for example have over Tomic, and also over Dimitrov? Or is Haas just a superior tennis talent compared to them?

I know this is an off topic, but I just wonder why this young generation seems to be unable to break through, while 35 yo Haas after several injuries can still make the Top 20.

Time Violation
03-24-2013, 03:26 PM
Well, clearly it is very physical, however when Dimitrov makes 5 DFs in a row, then the physical argument becomes pretty much irrelevant.

Ben D.
03-24-2013, 04:38 PM
He has the game instinct, thus making the good reflex shots and playing with ease most of the time. He lacks the mental fortitude of champions, and he is lacking in the physical department too (stamina mostly). But Murray was way better at 20, he had played a slam final. There's no way the current Tomic can reach a slam final. QFs at best.

TigerTim
03-24-2013, 04:45 PM
wtf? Murray is a superior player to tomic in every area of the game

jcempire
03-24-2013, 04:49 PM
obviously, Murray is way better than TOMIC

TOMIC would never get to his level.

Deathless Mortal
03-24-2013, 04:53 PM
One match that happened 6 years ago is pretty compelling evidence mate. Might have to fire up the VHS player just for this.

Shouldn't your VHS be on 24/7 mate? Only way to watch Hass when he was still relevant...

:haha: :haha:
You two would make a great commentating duo :D

Time Violation
03-24-2013, 05:14 PM
:haha: :haha:
You two would make a great commentating duo :D

Not that it's too hard 90% of commies being clueless fangirls, but I'd subscribe to their channel :yeah:

Murray Mint
03-24-2013, 05:14 PM
Have to say I thought that was quite a funny exchange as well. Nice to see some genuine wit, when so many on here are only capable of "mug mug mug, blah blah, save tennis meehhrrg"

And Tomic wishes he was 'a worse version of Murray'.

Orka_n
03-24-2013, 05:47 PM
Leng & Andrey = New Goodall & Koenig

MuzzahLovah
03-24-2013, 06:15 PM
It wasn't 20 yrs ago it was 4 yrs ago..

I know really :haha:

And the same guys are still around. So if young Murray was able to beat fed in his prime a #1 in the world, and Tomic can't take a set off Fed well past his peak, that doesn't suggest anything? :lol:

Roy Emerson
03-24-2013, 07:30 PM
He is Murray lite.

BauerAlmeida
03-24-2013, 08:05 PM
There have some similarities in their game, I don't think it's a wrong comparison. Murray is just much better obviously.

latso
03-24-2013, 08:40 PM
neither. Tomic is different than Murray and he won't surpass him i think.

atennisfan
03-24-2013, 11:47 PM
neither. Tomic is different than Murray and he won't surpass him i think.

Why not?

When Tomic hits the prime age of 25-26, his closest competitors will be harrisonmug, older raomug, older dimugtrov, etc..

Saberq
03-24-2013, 11:52 PM
Why not?

When Tomic hits the prime age of 25-26, his closest competitors will be harrisonmug, older raomug, older dimugtrov, etc..

yes nobody born in 94 and 95 plays tennis

Time Violation
03-24-2013, 11:53 PM
Why not?

When Tomic hits the prime age of 25-26, his closest competitors will be harrisonmug, older raomug, older dimugtrov, etc..

When he's 26 some present 13 or 14 yr old could be doing great, you can't know that.

tektonac
03-24-2013, 11:56 PM
Shouldn't your VHS be on 24/7 mate? Only way to watch Hass when he was still relevant...

:lol:

latso
03-25-2013, 08:53 AM
Why not?

When Tomic hits the prime age of 25-26, his closest competitors will be harrisonmug, older raomug, older dimugtrov, etc..
there will be also Nadalmug, Djokomug, Murraymug, Cilicmug, Dolgopolovmug, Nishikorimug, etc.

And there will be 21yo prodigymugs coming up, while the richer this Tomicmug gets, the Gulbismuggier his career might become..

ossie
03-25-2013, 11:00 AM
Thugic always reminded me of berdych for some reason. They may not have the same style but they both have a lot of pace and depth in their shots and their movement is heavy and deliberate.

Sapeod
03-25-2013, 09:07 PM
Lenders saying Tomic has a higher tennis IQ than Murray? What a fucking surprise :stupid: One of the most idiotic things I've ever read. Stick to making fun of Ferrer, you're better at it :stupid:

As for the thread...Andy shits all over Tomic in every department.

Hewitt =Legend
03-25-2013, 10:02 PM
Lenders saying Tomic has a higher tennis IQ than Murray? What a fucking surprise :stupid: One of the most idiotic things I've ever read. Stick to making fun of Ferrer, you're better at it :stupid:

As for the thread...Andy shits all over Tomic in every department.

How many times has Murray danced with cheerleaders? Yeah... they're called facts mate... Case closed..

Alex999
03-25-2013, 10:48 PM
Why not?

When Tomic hits the prime age of 25-26, his closest competitors will be harrisonmug, older raomug, older dimugtrov, etc..
I can still see Fed def. these 'youngsters' when he is 40yo. I'm j/k a bit but the state of 'youngsters' is so pathetic ... I don't even want to talk about it :sad: