Suicide Tennis Suggestion/Discussion Thread [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Suicide Tennis Suggestion/Discussion Thread

156mphserve
09-23-2012, 09:59 PM
Here is where you may post any suggestions or discuss things such as possible rule changes for next year, or current situations in Suicide tennis tournaments.

The current suicide tennis board consists of

156mphserve
bandtree
CoolyBri
Direnan
rvugt

Feel free to ask any or all of us if you have any concerns

156mphserve
09-23-2012, 10:03 PM
The starting of tournaments has been a key issue this season.

A poll will be opened later regarding this issue. What should the poll options be?

I think any tournament starting Sunday or before that has at least 5 matches being played should start on that day. I also think that any day with only 1 match except the final day should not count, this would result in tounament such as Bangkok this year starting on Tuesday instead of Monday which the board has voted on implementing on the fly in the current Bangkok tournament

purtov45
09-24-2012, 03:29 AM
Hi board,

You have transferred the beginning on Tuesday, it is proper.
But it was better to declare it at once when there was a schedule on Monday.

Thanks, purtov :hatoff:

156mphserve
09-24-2012, 03:49 AM
I'm not sure I get what you're saying? Are you saying we should have made it Tuesday as soon as the Monday schedule came out?

We cannot be around the forum 24/7. I wasn't here, as soon as I saw the 1 match I Pmed the others,m and we came to our decision. We are not robots, these things take time, I thought we came to the decision in a timely manner, well before play started on Monday, and only about a hour after I first noticed it.

Björki
09-24-2012, 08:14 AM
maybe there should be a rule that there should be at least 2 matches on Mondays OOP.

purtov45
09-24-2012, 10:57 AM
Hi board,

You have transferred the beginning on Tuesday, it is proper.
But it was better to declare it at once when there was a schedule on Monday.

Thanks, purtov :hatoff:

You have made in a timely manner, it I was mistaken, have incorrectly read readings of hours, I'm sorry.

sfar
09-25-2012, 09:15 PM
I agree with 156mphserve:

If Sunday has at least 4 o 5 games, it should start that day.
If Monday has only 1 game, it should start on Tuesday.
And, of course, point breakdown should be very clear for any possible situation (Sunday, Monday and Tuesday start - Saturday and Sunday end for ATP 250, ATP 500 and Masters).

SamR03A
10-06-2012, 06:26 PM
Are we picking on day 1 in Shanghai then? Only 3 MD matches...

RNW
10-06-2012, 08:07 PM
In Tokyo, we only had 3 matches on Monday as well.

I think it's fair if we start on sunday in Shanghai.

But then, someone has to start a thread!

RNW
10-06-2012, 08:09 PM
As for Tokyo:

In the point system there is no option for "no pick left" on day 7 which should bring more points than out on day 6. ...?

J99
10-07-2012, 02:26 AM
Where is the Shanghai Suicide thread, there are 3 matches to pick from today?

156mphserve
10-07-2012, 04:44 AM
doesn't start until Monday. The current rule states no sunday starts

J99
10-07-2012, 04:46 AM
doesn't start until Monday. The current rule states no sunday starts

But there are 3 matches, that's enough to start on a Sunday, besides the Masters tend to start on a Sunday, so maybe you should think about changing the rule, at least for them.

156mphserve
10-07-2012, 04:59 AM
I know, I agree, but we cannot just change this on the fly like we did with Bangkok. There, there was just 1 Monday match, which was just plain unfair to the players. Plus, moving the schedule forward would be unfair to people who expect it to start Monday like usual and not have enough time to get here today

I think there will be a poll in the offseason about when tournaments start, until then we will stick with the current rule

J99
10-07-2012, 05:50 AM
I know, I agree, but we cannot just change this on the fly like we did with Bangkok. There, there was just 1 Monday match, which was just plain unfair to the players. Plus, moving the schedule forward would be unfair to people who expect it to start Monday like usual and not have enough time to get here today

I think there will be a poll in the offseason about when tournaments start, until then we will stick with the current rule

I agree that you can't change the rule right away, it's obviously too short notice to do it now, perhaps for Paris though, oh, not until the offseason, I see. You said before you thought it should be 5 matches if it were to start on a Sunday, wouldn't 3 suffice?

156mphserve
10-07-2012, 11:49 PM
I just suggested 5 as an example, if the majority agreed that 3 would suffice then that would be fine.

J99
10-14-2012, 04:32 AM
No Sui for the coming week?

dinkulpus
10-14-2012, 08:47 AM
Nothing personal to you 156mphserve, but it's very stupid to make a new board members and to ignore the old one :eek:

rvugt
10-14-2012, 03:02 PM
No Sui for the coming week?

There should be!

156mphserve
10-17-2012, 03:28 AM
Nothing personal to you 156mphserve, but it's very stupid to make a new board members and to ignore the old one :eek:

I believe I PMed all the old board members, and those who replied wanting to retain their position did, or they were nominated anyway, and had that choice to retain their position.

If I forgot someone(I couldn't find a list anywhere of the old board) then I apologize and offer said old board member a position on the new board, that would create 6 members however, so we'd probably have to add another after that to keep it odd.

156mphserve
10-17-2012, 03:30 AM
That being said, the nominations thread was open for maybe 2 weeks at least, you could have nominated yourself and been up for a position on the board, so old board members could have done that if I forgot them

J99
02-07-2013, 11:02 AM
No poll for next week's Sui?

Litotes
02-07-2013, 11:14 AM
No poll for next week's Sui?

Do we need one? There's one ATP500 and two ATP250s. I'll always vote for a 500 over 250s regardless of other circumstances. Always assumed polls were just for tournaments of equal value, such as this week with three ATP250s.

J99
02-07-2013, 11:21 AM
Do we need one? There's one ATP500 and two ATP250s. I'll always vote for a 500 over 250s regardless of other circumstances. Always assumed polls were just for tournaments of equal value, such as this week with three ATP250s.

Oh right, ok.

rvugt
02-07-2013, 05:03 PM
Do we need one? There's one ATP500 and two ATP250s. I'll always vote for a 500 over 250s regardless of other circumstances. Always assumed polls were just for tournaments of equal value, such as this week with three ATP250s.

That is indeed the case!

dinkulpus
02-07-2013, 05:15 PM
No poll for next week's Sui?

You can see the calendar which I post in managers thread, if theu are more than 1 tournament we have pool


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App (http://www.verticalsports.com/mobile)

J99
02-08-2013, 04:57 AM
You can see the calendar which I post in managers thread, if theu are more than 1 tournament we have pool


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App (http://www.verticalsports.com/mobile)

I see that for week 9 it says just Dubai, when another 500 Acapulco is that week too, I see other weeks with just 1 tourney when there are more of the same level as well.

bry17may
02-08-2013, 05:37 AM
I see that for week 9 it says just Dubai, when another 500 Acapulco is that week too, I see other weeks with just 1 tourney when there are more of the same level as well.

I guees that you are viewing the right thread, this is for 2013 http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=213734 ;)

Litotes
03-12-2013, 06:46 PM
In the current IW tournament Rafael Nadal was discounted as a legal pick because his opponent left a WO. This happened after the deadline. I am not complaining, I would just like a clarification by those in the know. What needs to be done for the match to count? They must play exactly one point and then it's OK? What if they warm up and one of them injures himself? Will that count?

Also, a tournament with a WO in the final will never produce a winner? Or is the final an exeption to this WO rule?

CoolyBri
03-12-2013, 10:31 PM
At least one point needs to be played for a match to be valid for Suicide Tennis, yes.
So if there is a walkover in the final there can't be anyone winning the title; that's correct, too.

Litotes
03-12-2013, 11:24 PM
At least one point needs to be played for a match to be valid for Suicide Tennis, yes.
So if there is a walkover in the final there can't be anyone winning the title; that's correct, too.

OK, thanks. Good to know, so if something like this happens again I'll immediately know if I'm in or out, and who I can still legally pick.

156mphserve
03-23-2013, 10:30 PM
Rule 4 should now read:

4. Each Player shall sumbit a back-up pick at the same time they submit your main pick. This pick will only be used in the case of a walkover or withdrawal of your main pick, a walkover from you main pick's opponent, or in the case a Lucky Loser replaces your main pick's opponent. Retirements do count as completed matches. If 1 point is played the match will be considered in play and your pick is valid.

Replacement picks must be identified like this:
Back-Up Pick - Andy Roddick
Make it clear and try to do it all in one post!

or this...

4. Only in the case of a walkover or a withdrawal of your main pick, or your main pick's opponent, each player is allowed to have a back-up pick, selected at the same time as their initial pick. That back-up pick will only be used in the occurrence of a walkover or withdrawal, as stated above. Retirements do count as completed matches.

Replacement picks must be identified like this:
Back-Up Pick - Andy Roddick
Make it clear and try to do it all in one post!

The first one is my own wording as when I edited in the extra part about opponent's withdrawal it didn't really look right to me.

we should someone edit this into the draft that natasha has as a sticky, but she's not around anymore. Maybe a mod can edit it in for us?

Or maybe we should have a rules thread, and post it there?

Zenjo
03-24-2013, 07:47 AM
The whole Model of Suicide post could benefit from an overhaul whilst you’re at it. I’m not a linguistics expert so I’ll just point out a few areas that I think could do with improvement. :)

1. Each day of play you must pick 1 winner playing an ATP main draw singles match. Of course, the player that you choose is playing one match scheduled to be played that day (as seen on the order of play).

This doesn’t read well at all.

2. Once you pick someone, you cannot choose them again for the rest of the tournament. So, you don't want to waste your pick on Federer or Nadal to win in early round matches.

The second sentence could be rewritten. Perhaps replace ‘don’t want to waste’ with ‘might not want to use’.

3. You must choose one player to win each day. If you forget, are sick, or are unable to reach a computer, it will be treated as a wrong pick, and you will be out of the tournament. You have to submit your own pick, no one else can submit your pick for you.

The ‘are sick’ part isn’t necessary. 'If you forget, or are unable…'
At the end replace ‘your pick for you’ with ‘a pick on your behalf‘.

5. No commitments are necessary! If you wish to participate, just post your Day 1 pick in the correct time. New players are ALWAYS welcome!

Replace ’in the correct time’ with ‘before the start of play on the 1st day‘.

6. Once the order of play is released, it will be added IN THIS THREAD, right below, to facilitate your choices. Each day, this post will be updated with its respective order of play.

NOTE: You can't pick a player from a match scheduled for the previous day and postponed for the next due to rain or darkness! Choose only from the matches posted in the OOP here for the concrete day!

Given that the OOP post often isn't updated perhaps a link could be given to the ATP or tournament site?
The concrete day?

7. Picks will be acceptable until before the start of the FIRST match each day.

BEFORE THE START OF THE FIRST MATCH EACH DAY. Late picks are not allowed.

Bold and in capitals as new players get caught out by this all the time.

If the board goes down as it has happened before, send your picks on my e-mail: .

Should the board go down, as has happened before, you can send your picks to my e-mail:

Litotes
03-24-2013, 09:41 AM
I agree with Zenjo here.

Might perhaps also add something about picking for more days than one. Every organizer I've seen will allow someone to pick for day x and day (x+1) simultaneously, if they fear being unable to log on in time for day (x+1), just so long as they deliver their picks before play begins day x. It could be made into a stated right rather than just common praxis, adding of course the usual caveats about the poster himself being responsible for picking a player that will actually be scheduled to play on day (x+1) and his later pick never coming into play if his earlier one loses.

purtov45
03-25-2013, 12:48 PM
Hi board,

I ask to cancel your erroneous decision on my choice
Day2 Bellucci

Tournament of Miami uses an old rule 4:
4. Only in the case of a walkover or a withdrawal of your main pick, each player is allowed to have a back-up pick, selected at the same time as their initial pick. That back-up pick will only be used in the occurrence of a walkover or withdrawal, as stated above. Retirements do count as completed matches.
Bellucci walkover? No.
Bellucci withdrawal? No.
Bellucci loss? No.
Then my pick has won.

Nixer
03-25-2013, 12:56 PM
OOP had a "Thomaz Bellucci (BRA) v [WC] Christian Harrison (USA)" match for this day. Any difference can be counted as withdrawal IMO.

purtov45
03-25-2013, 01:40 PM
OOP had a "Thomaz Bellucci (BRA) v [WC] Christian Harrison (USA)" match for this day. Any difference can be counted as withdrawal IMO.
Разве в пункте 4 упоминается OOP? Там пусть пишут что угодно, или вообще ничего. В реальном OOP есть Bellucci v Brands, и нет Bellucci v Harrison.

Unless in item 4 it is mentioned OOP? There let write everything, or in general anything. In actual OOP is Bellucci v Brands, and is not present Bellucci v Harrison.

purtov45
03-25-2013, 01:55 PM
It is pleasant to me Suicide Tennis. But the new rule 4 seems disgusting. In female ST have spoiled rules when have entered BYE. Now we start to spoil man's ST...
:(

Nixer
03-25-2013, 02:28 PM
Разве в пункте 4 упоминается OOP? Там пусть пишут что угодно, или вообще ничего. В реальном OOP есть Bellucci v Brands, и нет Bellucci v Harrison.

Unless in item 4 it is mentioned OOP? There let write everything, or in general anything. In actual OOP is Bellucci v Brands, and is not present Bellucci v Harrison.

Ну ведь мы на atptour тоже считали что "2. Bellucci" означает "Bellucci d. Harrison". Здесь этого не прописано конкретно, но я думаю логично что именно на тот матч - к примеру, Брандс явно сильнее Харрисона и вполне мог выиграть - у тебя был бы суицид (я думаю ты тоже ожидал что он будет именно с Харрисоном играть)... а так нейтрально - просто если матч не соответствует расписанию - отмена.

Litotes
03-25-2013, 02:37 PM
Hi board,

I ask to cancel your erroneous decision on my choice
Day2 Bellucci

Tournament of Miami uses an old rule 4:

Bellucci walkover? No.
Bellucci withdrawal? No.
Bellucci loss? No.
Then my pick has won.

purtov, if Brands had won against Bellucci and your BU Berlocq also, would you then feel it was right that you had been eliminated? I myself considered Bellucci as a pick against Harrison. I would not have considered him against Brands. So I think it is better to have it this way, if a LL comes in after the OOP has been released, the match will not count. If you are dead set on picking someone then perhaps this kind of pick will be allowed:

Day 2: Bellucci (vs Harrison)
BU: Bellucci (vs LL)

CoolyBri
03-25-2013, 05:40 PM
It is pleasant to me Suicide Tennis. But the new rule 4 seems disgusting.

It is not a "new" rule, this rule is used since the beginning of Suicide Tennis.
So nobody changed any rule, only the wording needs to be improved.

purtov45
03-25-2013, 06:19 PM
It is not a "new" rule, this rule is used since the beginning of Suicide Tennis.
So nobody changed any rule, only the wording needs to be improved.
You have convinced me!
If it not a new rule if there was a precedent all my reasonings lose force.
Sorry, that I such stupid also have taken away from you time. I shall get used to treatment, which new to me and old for other players.

purtov45
03-25-2013, 06:41 PM
purtov, if Brands had won against Bellucci and your BU Berlocq also, would you then feel it was right that you had been eliminated? I myself considered Bellucci as a pick against Harrison. I would not have considered him against Brands. So I think it is better to have it this way, if a LL comes in after the OOP has been released, the match will not count. If you are dead set on picking someone then perhaps this kind of pick will be allowed:

Day 2: Bellucci (vs Harrison)
BU: Bellucci (vs LL)

Even if was Bellucci v Djokovic, I considered my elimination fair. It is a suicide, my pick is unsuccessful, I was shot. But now it is unimportant, as Bellucci disappears from the schedule.

purtov45
03-25-2013, 06:48 PM
Ну ведь мы на atptour тоже считали что "2. Bellucci" означает "Bellucci d. Harrison". Здесь этого не прописано конкретно, но я думаю логично что именно на тот матч - к примеру, Брандс явно сильнее Харрисона и вполне мог выиграть - у тебя был бы суицид (я думаю ты тоже ожидал что он будет именно с Харрисоном играть)... а так нейтрально - просто если матч не соответствует расписанию - отмена.
В том-то и дело, что у нас при замене соперника ставка сохранялась, наверно это меня и сбило с толку. Но в чужой монастырь со своим уставом не ходят ...

Zenjo
03-25-2013, 06:54 PM
Purtov, I also was eliminated on day 2 because of the withdrawal. I understand it's annoying but that was the correct ruling as per the existing rules. The board had to make a tough decision and they made it. It has been recognised that the rules are poorly worded and are in need of updating, so that there isn't any controversy like this again.

The fact is that both you and I chose Bellucci to win because he was playing a wild card ranked 377. Had it been known he was going to play the world no. 68 instead then neither of us would have picked him and gone with our backup picks instead.

Nixer
03-25-2013, 06:57 PM
В том-то и дело, что у нас при замене соперника ставка сохранялась, наверно это меня и сбило с толку. Но в чужой монастырь со своим уставом не ходят ...

Разве? Значит хреново я наши правила читал :D

purtov45
03-25-2013, 08:23 PM
Purtov, I also was eliminated on day 2 because of the withdrawal. I understand it's annoying but that was the correct ruling as per the existing rules. The board had to make a tough decision and they made it. It has been recognised that the rules are poorly worded and are in need of updating, so that there isn't any controversy like this again.

The fact is that both you and I chose Bellucci to win because he was playing a wild card ranked 377. Had it been known he was going to play the world no. 68 instead then neither of us would have picked him and gone with our backup picks instead.
No, I don't feel disappointment as soon as I understand, that all is made by rules.
Imho, a rule very complex, well worded it will not be possible. Perhaps, to add an example?

Nixer
03-26-2013, 07:46 AM
Purtov, I also was eliminated on day 2 because of the withdrawal. I understand it's annoying but that was the correct ruling as per the existing rules. The board had to make a tough decision and they made it. It has been recognised that the rules are poorly worded and are in need of updating, so that there isn't any controversy like this again.

The fact is that both you and I chose Bellucci to win because he was playing a wild card ranked 377. Had it been known he was going to play the world no. 68 instead then neither of us would have picked him and gone with our backup picks instead.

After this issue, I'd say the rules are not only poorly worded, but also don't account for LLs properly.
For example, OOP in thread has a match Ferrer vs Fognini, and someone really wants a safe bet in Day 1: Ferrer. I imagine one would fancy his pick on Ferrer against any unseeded in the draw. Fognini withdraws, and is replaced with Brands. Now there can be 2 situations depending on the time of withdrawal:

1) Withdrawal and LL info is known after the play has started this day. Here, rules need proper wording - as Day 1: Ferrer means Ferrer over Fognini. Although again, what if one doesn't care who Ferrer plays and just wants a safe bet on a top-10 player?

2) Withdrawal and LL Brands are known before the play has started this day, but after the manager has posted the OOP - and one makes a pick on Ferrer based on LL info. The player makes a pick Day 1: Ferrer meaning Ferrer over Brands. Some ST managers update the thread once a day - so not online to sort this situation before the deadline (and objectively can't be each day). What is the decision here?

156mphserve
03-26-2013, 08:02 AM
After this issue, I'd say the rules are not only poorly worded, but also don't account for LLs properly.
For example, OOP in thread has a match Ferrer vs Fognini, and someone really wants a safe bet in Day 1: Ferrer. I imagine one would fancy his pick on Ferrer against any unseeded in the draw. Fognini withdraws, and is replaced with Brands. Now there can be 2 situations depending on the time of withdrawal:

1) Withdrawal and LL info is known after the play has started this day. Here, rules need proper wording - as Day 1: Ferrer means Ferrer over Fognini. Although again, what if one doesn't care who Ferrer plays and just wants a safe bet on a top-10 player?

2) Withdrawal and LL Brands are known before the play has started this day, but after the manager has posted the OOP - and one makes a pick on Ferrer based on LL info. The player makes a pick Day 1: Ferrer meaning Ferrer over Brands. Some ST managers update the thread once a day - so not online to sort this situation before the deadline (and objectively can't be each day). What is the decision here?

If it is known that an opponent has withdrawn before the deadline, and a player wishes to pick the new match. In your example he wishes to pick Ferrer over Brands. Then I would think it's fair to count this pick as long as the player notifies when picking that he is indeed picking the new match Ferrer over Brands, and not the original match involving Ferrer. For all intents and purposes since the player withdrew before the dealine this would be a valid suicide tennis match.

However if a player picks Ferrer and fails to notify that this is the new match that he is picking I tink we'd have to go with the backup. We cannot assume that he intended to pick this new Ferrer match. It's possible that they did, but it would be unfair to the ones who didn't realize and was just picking from the OOP posted.

purtov45
03-26-2013, 09:00 AM
The problem arises when not completed pick is made. The manager should finish the pick, and for this purpose we do a heap of rules. Now I always shall do only the completed picks, and me rules-4 cease to interest.

Thus, I shall not do pick Day2 Bellucci.
I shall choose from two possibilities.
1) Day2 Bellucci def Harrison
2) Day2 Bellucci def anyone

156mphserve
03-26-2013, 11:58 AM
The problem arises when not completed pick is made. The manager should finish the pick, and for this purpose we do a heap of rules. Now I always shall do only the completed picks, and me rules-4 cease to interest.

Thus, I shall not do pick Day2 Bellucci.
I shall choose from two possibilities.
1) Day2 Bellucci def Harrison
2) Day2 Bellucci def anyone

in my opinion if Bellucci's opponent gets replaced after play starts then this is an invalid match.

I would not agree with someone posting a pick like

Day 2: Bellucci(vs. C.Harrison)
BU: Bellucci(vs. LL)
BU2: Berlocq

I feel as if the deadline passes and the LL hasn't come in by then then it's not an official Suicide Tennis match as it's not on the OOP and the deadline has passed.

However it's not up to me to decide that. Maybe we should have a vote on it since there's no concrete rule for that scenario

RNW
06-02-2013, 09:50 PM
First: Thanks to all the managers for doing a great job.

I have the following suggestions:

1. Roland Garros should start on Sunday as the only Tournament of the year. I understand why the other tournaments starts on Monday and it makes sense because there are only a few matches on Sunday (e.g. in Madrid) and it does not make sense when half of the players is out after that.
But at RG you really have a nice and difficile competition with those 16 matches.
On the womens side it was actually not really easy to predict, but it makes the whole French Open even more exciting and tough which would be great.

2. I don't understand the points on day five.
They should be 160 and not 140 in my opinion.
The point structure is very hard.
Was it actually in discussion already?
Because it really changes the whole game when you would change the point system.

With this system you really risk something because you think that 2000 is so much more than e.g. 500.
If the point structure is more flat, than you don't want to end/win tournaments anymore and you won't risk that much.

Litotes
06-02-2013, 09:53 PM
The problem with RG starting Sunday is that everyone is used to tournaments always starting Monday. It will be difficult to remember that one time a year it's Sunday.

rvugt
06-02-2013, 10:59 PM
First: Thanks to all the managers for doing a great job.

I have the following suggestions:

1. Roland Garros should start on Sunday as the only Tournament of the year. I understand why the other tournaments starts on Monday and it makes sense because there are only a few matches on Sunday (e.g. in Madrid) and it does not make sense when half of the players is out after that.
But at RG you really have a nice and difficile competition with those 16 matches.
On the womens side it was actually not really easy to predict, but it makes the whole French Open even more exciting and tough which would be great.

2. I don't understand the points on day five.
They should be 160 and not 140 in my opinion.
The point structure is very hard.
Was it actually in discussion already?
Because it really changes the whole game when you would change the point system.

With this system you really risk something because you think that 2000 is so much more than e.g. 500.
If the point structure is more flat, than you don't want to end/win tournaments anymore and you won't risk that much.

With Roland Garros, you might have a point. We discussed in the off-season whether it would be wise to let tournaments start when a certain amount of matches are on Sunday. But the clearest reason to start on Monday is the fact that people than don't have to remember when tournaments start, they always start on Monday. I am still in favor for this.

For the points system, I don't really see what you mean. You start with day 5 points and end up saying the whole system is wrong. The idea of the system is to copy the real life tennis tournaments, that is what we use. And for the fact that it should be more flat, I disagree. It is clearly more difficult to end up picking the right finalist, so that should be much more points than picking correct on day 1, which is really easy! So, that is why you can get so much more points on the final days! We want risk to be promoted here!

J99
06-15-2013, 07:04 AM
Is there even going to be a suicide game for next week, cause there is no poll yet?

Litotes
06-16-2013, 05:23 PM
Is there even going to be a suicide game for next week, cause there is no poll yet?

Good question. I just started one for Eastbourne as it was no time for a poll now.

J99
09-15-2013, 07:55 AM
No poll for Suicide this week, will there be a game?

bry17may
09-15-2013, 08:04 AM
No poll for Suicide this week, will there be a game?

I think that Sapeod forgot to do it :o, I will send him a PM but if he doesn't answer before I get up (in like 5 hours) I will manage this week and I will decide what tournament we will play by a coin flipping ;)

RNW
11-07-2013, 04:04 PM
I edited Post 90 in the Suicide WTF thread. POST: "It's quite interesting to see "Sunshine" managing our Suicide End Tournament haha "

It's not a post where I posted a pick in it but it is a bit irritating that it is not mentioned that it is edited...
So I guess probably someone could change a pick as well and it is not mentioned...?

I just wanted to mention that, probably there are other ways for MODs to see if a post is edited.

Litotes
11-07-2013, 04:31 PM
I edited Post 90 in the Suicide WTF thread. POST: "It's quite interesting to see "Sunshine" managing our Suicide End Tournament haha "

It's not a post where I posted a pick in it but it is a bit irritating that it is not mentioned that it is edited...
So I guess probably someone could change a pick as well and it is not mentioned...?

I just wanted to mention that, probably there are other ways for MODs to see if a post is edited.

You have two minutes to edit a post before it says it has been changed. So you can edit your suicide pick within those two minutes, if for instance you made a silly typo.

After 121 seconds it will be visible that the post has been edited, and that post will no longer be valid in the competition. But you can of course make a new one if you're in time.

RNW
11-08-2013, 10:48 PM
Ah, good. I didnt know that.

Thanks for your answer, Litotes.

Ace Pounder
12-27-2013, 08:07 AM
When will we decide which tournament will be played in first week?

Edit: poll just posted. Haha!

Ace Pounder
12-30-2013, 10:13 AM
Little question: can we pick a player that is playing for the Final qualifying round on Mondays, when MD players play too?

I'm asking since no-one has picked any of the qualifying matches' players.


Edit: Nevermind... It's the first line of the Rules (I simply didn't remember being written "(...) of the main draw ")

T.C
01-10-2014, 07:20 AM
Question on the deadline for turning in picks: it has to be before the start of the first match, but what is considered the "start"? When the match is actually scheduled to start? When players walk on the court? Or when the umpire calls "play"?

I assume it's the first option as the other two could make it difficult to monitor which picks are valid if there are a flurry of last minute picks.

What happens during bad weather when the first matches have a delayed start?

dinkulpus
01-10-2014, 07:26 AM
Question on the deadline for turning in picks: it has to be before the start of the first match, but what is considered the "start"? When the match is actually scheduled to start? When players walk on the court? Or when the umpire calls "play"?

I assume it's the first option as the other two could make it difficult to monitor which picks are valid if there are a flurry of last minute picks.

What happens during bad weather when the first matches have a delayed start?

When the first point is started :p

Litotes
01-10-2014, 07:29 AM
Question on the deadline for turning in picks: it has to be before the start of the first match, but what is considered the "start"? When the match is actually scheduled to start? When players walk on the court? Or when the umpire calls "play"?

I assume it's the first option as the other two could make it difficult to monitor which picks are valid if there are a flurry of last minute picks.

What happens during bad weather when the first matches have a delayed start?

"The start of the match" will be when the umpire calls "play"

I have played ST for 18 months and I have yet to see anyone come with last minute picks deliberately. Everyone gives themselves good time, unless they forgot and remembered in the very last minutes. So it has not been a problem at all.

A rain delay can mean you get a few more hours to pick.

T.C
01-10-2014, 01:23 PM
thanks for the clarification!

Bazza
01-17-2014, 04:54 AM
I'm still alive in the Australian Open but I don't know if I'll be able to reach a computer in the next 3 days. Can I just make my picks for 3 days in a row and lose if any of my picked players lose before or the picks have to be made after the order of play has the players names on it?

Litotes
01-17-2014, 05:04 AM
I'm still alive in the Australian Open but I don't know if I'll be able to reach a computer in the next 3 days. Can I just make my picks for 3 days in a row and lose if any of my picked players lose before or the picks have to be made after the order of play has the players names on it?

You can pick for three days ahead, no problem. Just explain in the thread and do like this:

Day 6: Winner
Backup

Day 7: Winner
Backup

Day 8: Winner
Backup

Bazza
01-17-2014, 07:29 AM
You can pick for three days ahead, no problem. Just explain in the thread and do like this:

Day 6: Winner
Backup

Day 7: Winner
Backup

Day 8: Winner
Backup

Thanks! I'll do that

J99
02-23-2014, 01:25 AM
No poll for Acapulco or Dubai?

Litotes
02-23-2014, 05:49 AM
No poll for Acapulco or Dubai?

You're right. I guess our new manager wasn't aware of standard procedure.

I think it is too late for a poll now, I PMed him and asked him to choose one. If he doesn't reply then in a few hours I will open a thread myself.

RNW
02-23-2014, 06:07 PM
I think there could be a difference between "Wrong Pick at Day x" and "No Pick Left"
f.e. for today in Rio.
Day 7: No Pick Left could give like 290 points and "Day 7: Wrong pick" like 330 points.
It is like that at TF.
It is a slight difference because you have to think about one more factor... Don't know if this would be better or not,
just wanted to say it. :)

VamosRafaNadal
02-24-2014, 11:27 PM
I think there could be a difference between "Wrong Pick at Day x" and "No Pick Left"
f.e. for today in Rio.
Day 7: No Pick Left could give like 290 points and "Day 7: Wrong pick" like 330 points.
It is like that at TF.
It is a slight difference because you have to think about one more factor... Don't know if this would be better or not,
just wanted to say it. :)

I agree, it can be considered as a new rule for the 2015 season. I think that now it is a little bit late to implement the rule :( But I hope that Suicide Tennis Board consider it, and if it can be implemented this 2014 it would be great.

156mphserve
02-25-2014, 05:29 AM
I think they should be the same. I mean the goal is to correctly pick a winner, in both cases you failed to correctly pick a winner so you lose.

I would compare it to losing 6-0 6-0 or 6-0 6-7 6-7 in tennis or even by walkover, they're both worth the same ranking points, you lost that round, doesn't matter if you played and lost terribly, the match was very close, or you didn't even show up, you still don't advance and get those points.

If you start to introduce different points for no pick remaining and wrong pick on the final day then I think you probably have to introduce the same for other days as well, different number of points for no pick on day 2 versus wrong pick on day 2, and so forth.

In my mind the goal of the game is to advance to the next day by correctly picking a winner. I think if you fail to do that because you had nobody left to pick, or if you just picked the wrong guy they both should be treated the same, you failed.

Also often someone surprising gets top the final. Say you see a Young v. Isner final in Washington. You have 2 people both survived until the final day. Both have already used Isner. The 1st guy picked Young on day 1. The other guy thought Young sucked and didn`t have much of a chance to win any match, they get to the final day, the 1st guy has no pick left, the other guy has Young left by sheer luck, no real planning whatsoever. Isner trashes Young. Why should the 2nd guy who had a no hope pick remaining by sheer luck get more points that the guy who picked Young on day 1?

Fargif
02-26-2014, 04:16 PM
I think they should be the same. I mean the goal is to correctly pick a winner, in both cases you failed to correctly pick a winner so you lose.

I would compare it to losing 6-0 6-0 or 6-0 6-7 6-7 in tennis or even by walkover, they're both worth the same ranking points, you lost that round, doesn't matter if you played and lost terribly, the match was very close, or you didn't even show up, you still don't advance and get those points.

If you start to introduce different points for no pick remaining and wrong pick on the final day then I think you probably have to introduce the same for other days as well, different number of points for no pick on day 2 versus wrong pick on day 2, and so forth.

In my mind the goal of the game is to advance to the next day by correctly picking a winner. I think if you fail to do that because you had nobody left to pick, or if you just picked the wrong guy they both should be treated the same, you failed.

Also often someone surprising gets top the final. Say you see a Young v. Isner final in Washington. You have 2 people both survived until the final day. Both have already used Isner. The 1st guy picked Young on day 1. The other guy thought Young sucked and didn`t have much of a chance to win any match, they get to the final day, the 1st guy has no pick left, the other guy has Young left by sheer luck, no real planning whatsoever. Isner trashes Young. Why should the 2nd guy who had a no hope pick remaining by sheer luck get more points that the guy who picked Young on day 1?


Here is where i disagree. Lets take Rio for example, whoever picked had Rafa for SF and others have Dolgo for last day at least the Dolgo´s pickers are still alive when SF are over. Now who picked Rafa as last pick already know their fate.

As for adding same scoring system for other rounds well it only happens in SF and maybe QF so i dont see the problem in adding 10-15 or 20.


Im posting this because of the another reason. Walkover picks but we get losses.

Ive read both sides and the frsutrating part is the player we picked gets to next round. Of coruse your going to say we have a Bup but it my player withdraws im pissed at him but its my fault. Now to have to control our opponent as well is very dificult.

Can we at least have a poll?

rvugt
02-26-2014, 05:00 PM
Im posting this because of the another reason. Walkover picks but we get losses.



Ive read both sides and the frsutrating part is the player we picked gets to next round. Of coruse your going to say we have a Bup but it my player withdraws im pissed at him but its my fault. Now to have to control our opponent as well is very dificult.



Can we at least have a poll?

I don't get what you mean here? I guess you mean retirements? What do you want to be changed?





Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App (http://www.verticalsports.com/mobile)

Litotes
02-26-2014, 05:03 PM
I don't get what you mean here? I guess you mean retirements? What do you want to be changed?



He wants wins by WO to count, like today when he picked Tsonga against Davydenko, Tsonga won on a WO and he was eliminated because his BU lost.


I am opposed to this rule change myself.

dinkulpus
02-26-2014, 05:21 PM
Every time when player is eliminated because of this he/she suggest that :)

Fargif
02-26-2014, 07:03 PM
It just doesnt seem right. Ive had same problems while betting on tennis. Player i pick gets a WO and the other looses but because no 1set ended i dont win. This case is diferent. My pick is still in play, not for me but for the rest of the field. They will take advantage ( or not ) of him beeing on the field while i and other have lost?

Tell me where is the logic in this? I just dont see.

Litotes
02-26-2014, 07:15 PM
It just doesnt seem right. Ive had same problems while betting on tennis. Player i pick gets a WO and the other looses but because no 1set ended i dont win. This case is diferent. My pick is still in play, not for me but for the rest of the field. They will take advantage ( or not ) of him beeing on the field while i and other have lost?

Tell me where is the logic in this? I just dont see.

One problem is that WOs are often announced before start of play. It can be extremely difficult for the manager to know exactly when the information broke. Imagine Tsonga getting a WO half an hour before the deadline. Then we get a rush of people changing picks to Tsonga since he is a 100% certainty in the next round. This is not what the game is about. The game is about picking people to win on the court. Just like in TT, where a WO likewise do not count even if the players have different winners.

Fargif
02-26-2014, 08:59 PM
Here is another i just got. Not sure its happened before.

Has there ever been Pick and Bup walkovers?

I like this game and most of the rules. This was one i never imagined. Im not the 1st nor will be last to be against. I can live with wrong pick, or my guy getting injured and defaulting. Now the other guy defaulting and i loose i dont like it.

Litotes
02-26-2014, 09:17 PM
How would you feel if for example Kohlschreiber announced now that he couldn't play tomorrow? Would you prefer that his opponent Jaziri then be a legal pick? If not, where to you draw the limit? Remember, information about withdawals do not follow a set timetable.

As for pick and BU WOs, yes, that has happened. Unfortunate, but it's all part of the game, or has been so far.

rvugt
02-26-2014, 09:56 PM
Here is another i just got. Not sure its happened before.

Has there ever been Pick and Bup walkovers?

I like this game and most of the rules. This was one i never imagined. Im not the 1st nor will be last to be against. I can live with wrong pick, or my guy getting injured and defaulting. Now the other guy defaulting and i loose i dont like it.

Never realized it the other way around? What if you pick Tsonga and he give a WO, would you than think you should lose. I think it is really no problem and you are actually one of the few who are against it. We have Bu pick for these situations, otherwise the BU would not be needed anymore. And if you pick badly on your BU, you are the only one to blame.

And btw, if your BU would win, Tsonga would still be available for you, so no advantage of other players there.

Fargif
02-26-2014, 10:04 PM
Yes. If i picked Kohl and he announced that sure. Like i said, i dont have a problem with WO or wthdrawls from my players. I do have aa problem with the other guy doing it thus negating my pick.

If Tsonga withdrew ann Davydenk got to next round i have no problem with that. I would have a problem with Tsonga, but not a rule itself.

And thats bad, but you just confirmed that it has happened in the past getting 2 WO? And nobody complained about it?

I think my english is half decent and you get what my problem is. Its not Tsonga in this case is Davydenko. Tsonga will get the atp points but wont be credited with a win and our winning pick.

Its parte of the game, true, but everygame gets a tweek every now and then. I dont have anyproblem with most stuff. The are 1 or 2 small things i could think of but this one is getting under my skin, i just cant accept it.

Litotes
02-26-2014, 10:11 PM
I ask you agan, Fargif, where would you draw the line? If Kohlschreiber announces NOW that he won't play tomorrow, would you still have his opponent Jaziri a legal pick? He would definitely get to the next round.

Fargif
02-26-2014, 10:18 PM
If we can edit and or change our pick until just before 1st serve i dont have a problem ahcanging my pick. Kohl is out and Jaziri goes to next round, once the oficial stament is out that jaziri get next round nobody can pick him.

I think there is a miscomunication between us, i seem to not get your point you are trying to make.

dinkulpus
02-27-2014, 01:03 PM
I asked something Fargif but he didn't answer to me. What did you not suggest that in off-season?
People always suggest something when they lose only.

Fargif
02-27-2014, 08:21 PM
I asked something Fargif but he didn't answer to me. What did you not suggest that in off-season?
People always suggest something when they lose only.

Ive been here for 3 months. Its not about the loss, ive lost before with picks and like i said i just cant accept part of this rule, thats all.

My player gets injured, it life. My player gets stomach virus before game and retires, thats life. Now if his opponent gets in these 2 situations then im not resposible for him.

I dont even have a problem lossing with my bup. Which brings me to another question.

Why do we have a bup? To protect the 1st pick from WO or retiments, right? So what happens when both are WO or retirements?

Lilotes said where do we draw the line. Sure, but it happen today to abollo.

If it aint broke dont fix it right? Well what if it is? This week was the 1st time ive heard about this because it happen to me. And another 4. Is it so bad to make a poll? If majority say no ill shut up.

Litotes
02-27-2014, 08:30 PM
Ive been here for 3 months. Its not about the loss, ive lost before with picks and like i said i just cant accept part of this rule, thats all.

My player gets injured, it life. My player gets stomach virus before game and retires, thats life. Now if his opponent gets in these 2 situations then im not resposible for him.

I dont even have a problem lossing with my bup. Which brings me to another question.

Why do we have a bup? To protect the 1st pick from WO or retiments, right? So what happens when both are WO or retirements?

Lilotes said where do we draw the line. Sure, but it happen today to abollo.

If it aint broke dont fix it right? Well what if it is? This week was the 1st time ive heard about this because it happen to me. And another 4. Is it so bad to make a poll? If majority say no ill shut up.


I don't think you're getting my question. Perhaps I can illustrate by an example or two:

Youzhny announces 1PM he will not play due to illness. Deadline for picks is 3PM. Is a pick of Youzhny's opponent made 2PM a legal pick? Is a pick of Youzhny's opponent made before 1PM a legal pick? What do you think?

Youzhny cannot play due to illness. There is speculation on the forum about this before the deadline but noone knows exactly when the news broke. Deadline for suicide picks are one hour behind the beginning of these speculations but ahead of the official confirmation that he will not play. Is Youzhny's opponent a legal pick now?

Fargif
02-27-2014, 09:26 PM
I don't think you're getting my question. Perhaps I can illustrate by an example or two:

Youzhny announces 1PM he will not play due to illness. Deadline for picks is 3PM. Is a pick of Youzhny's opponent made 2PM a legal pick? Is a pick of Youzhny's opponent made before 1PM a legal pick? What do you think?

Youzhny cannot play due to illness. There is speculation on the forum about this before the deadline but noone knows exactly when the news broke. Deadline for suicide picks are one hour behind the beginning of these speculations but ahead of the official confirmation that he will not play. Is Youzhny's opponent a legal pick now?

This is a completly diferent scenario and problem. Because both of them will eliminate anyone who picks both? So its legal in someway. But just like if i pick a player who isnt playing that day, you or anyone whos in that thread will ussually warn us that he isnt playing.

But to asnwer your question Picking Youzhyn before or after 1pm is a legal pick, and it lies on the picker to make sure he is playing. Thats not what happen and not why im making such a fuzz.

My problem is ( in this case scenario ) who ever pick his opponent( youzhny´s) doesnt get credit for him advancing. But managers playing next round can pick him because he is eligble ( if they havent used him before.


Lilotes i think i asnwered you this time do you at least undestrand my point or my problem?

If i picked the russian and didnt know or could change my pick before 3pm then its on me and no problem, but picking his opponent and he goes to next round that is my problem.

purtov45
04-07-2014, 12:37 PM
I would like to participate in discussion of rules-2015.
I can not understand, where the object of discussion is located.
Where (in what post) to read rules-2014?
Who in board now?
Who is the president of board?

Litotes
04-07-2014, 01:11 PM
I would like to participate in discussion of rules-2015.
I can not understand, where the object of discussion is located.
Where (in what post) to read rules-2014?
Who in board now?
Who is the president of board?

I don't know of any rule thread, game is pretty simple, rules are basically given in this model tread:
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=155402

Anything we change would probably be implemented in this model thread rather than creating a rules thread. Though, I guess we could make a rules thread also. I'll look into the possibility and discuss it with the rest of the board.


We haven't really had rule reviews like in TT. That does not mean we couldn't have one, sounds like a good suggestion to me. If you have suggestions for rule changes you can submit them whenever you want to.

The board:
156mphserve
rvugt
CoolyBri
dinkulpus
Litotes

We have no president.

purtov45
04-08-2014, 04:16 AM
Many thanks!
I don't know of any rule thread, game is pretty simple, rules are basically given in this model tread:
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=155402
It is a part of rules which is sent in thread of each tournament.
I suggest to add the following after paragraph 7:
PROPOSED RULE:
Never edit your pick. If you change your mind, you must first "quote" your original pick in a new post and enter your new pick there.

It is necessary to have full rules also.
We have no president.
:) Well without the president! Nobody is responsible. :)

Litotes
04-08-2014, 05:58 AM
The proposed rule makes a lot of sense and is uncontroversial, I will add it to the model thread. As for the rule thread I will discuss that with my fellow board members, just on a slightly more quiet day (for me) :)

J99
09-22-2014, 03:39 PM
No more polls?

Litotes
09-22-2014, 03:52 PM
No more polls?

I entirely forgot about this weeks suicide until Sunday afternoon, no time to make a poll then. I assume the manager also remembered too late to make a poll. Under such circumstances, with no reminder being sent out, manager just choosing one is entirely acceptable. But we will try to have polls in the future.

J99
09-22-2014, 04:01 PM
^ Well Beijing/Tokyo is next week, so you could have a poll for that.

J99
09-26-2014, 07:35 PM
I thought there was going to be a poll for Beijing/Tokyo, but now I see that there is Suicide Beijing, what happened?

Fargif
09-26-2014, 07:40 PM
Nole and Rafa are there. Its a no brainer. Stan and Ferrer are in Japan.

J99
09-26-2014, 08:34 PM
^ Murray and Ferrer were in Shenzhen this week, it obviously wasn't a no brainer, cause the Suicide is in Kuala Lumpur instead, I don't think that really has anything to do with it anyway, it's about voting for everyone, people vote for different reasons.

J99
10-11-2014, 12:29 AM
No poll for this week?

Prakharulz
10-11-2014, 05:48 AM
I made the poll on behalf of the manager incharge

J99
10-16-2014, 08:11 AM
Will there be a Valencia/Basel poll?

Litotes
10-16-2014, 10:27 AM
Will there be a Valencia/Basel poll?

Yes, it is added now.