Who'll Finish The Year Ranked Higher - Berdych or Del Potro? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Who'll Finish The Year Ranked Higher - Berdych or Del Potro?

Certinfy
09-22-2012, 07:08 PM
Del Potro currently only 100 points ahead in the race but will miss out on the Asian swing while Berdych is arguably also the better player indoors.

Federer in 2
09-22-2012, 07:09 PM
Berdych.

TigerTim
09-22-2012, 07:09 PM
Berdych. Easily.

Looner
09-22-2012, 07:19 PM
If Birdshit continues his form, Potro.

Cereal Killer
09-22-2012, 07:28 PM
There are only 30 points between them in the race, but del Potro has been more consistent, so probably him.

Sanya
09-22-2012, 07:31 PM
Potro. It doesn`t matter that he won`t play - for Tommy time comes again to lose to some random players after great tournaments. :p

Seriously - it should be Berdych. Apart from Asia he will have a chance to gain some points in DC final (I mean opportunities for him where Delpo even doesn`t take part), it deserves to be mentioned. Not that much, but still.

Mark Lenders
09-22-2012, 07:38 PM
Del Potro is clearly the better player and should become a permanent top 5 player soon, even if he keeps getting injured every other week.

That said, I'm backing Tomas to go on an indoor tear, not only overcoming Del Potro but also gaining 1000 points on Ferrer and finally break into the top 5. Without a dominant #5 at the moment, he will never have a better chance to finally break the top 5.

Freak3yman84
09-22-2012, 07:42 PM
Can neither player go any higher?

TennisMilan
09-22-2012, 09:43 PM
Del Potro. He's more consistent.

Topspindoctor
09-23-2012, 02:04 AM
Berdych is a much better player than that overrated clown, he has better groundies, especially on BH, better RoS, better serve, better volleys, better movement - not so good mentally and couldn't fluke a slam like Aregentine ballbasher did, but not everyone is born lucky. It would be great if he ended the year higher than one of the most overrated players of all time and prove again that outside the USO Del-Craptro is a small tournament vulture who lacks the game to win a single masters.

Mark Lenders
09-23-2012, 02:10 AM
Berdych is a much better player than that overrated clown, he has better groundies, especially on BH, better RoS, better serve, better volleys, better movement - not so good mentally and couldn't fluke a slam like Aregentine ballbasher did, but not everyone is born lucky. It would be great if he ended the year higher than one of the most overrated players of all time and prove again that outside the USO Del-Craptro is a small tournament vulture who lacks the game to win a single masters.

At least you got two things right: Berdych has better ROS and movement. This post is a perfect advertisement for the old cliché that even a broken clock is right twice a day, since literally everything else is wrong.

uxyzapenje
09-23-2012, 02:11 AM
At least you got two things right: Berdych has better ROS and movement. This post is a perfect advertisement for the old cliché that even a broken clock is right twice a day, since literally everything else is wrong.

Berdych does have a better serve :shrug:

Topspindoctor
09-23-2012, 02:15 AM
At least you got two things right: Berdych has better ROS and movement. This post is a perfect advertisement for the old cliché that even a broken clock is right twice a day, since literally everything else is wrong.

So Del Potro has better volleys, serve and BH as well??? :superlol:x1000

And am I wrong that he can't win a masters?

Am I wrong that he fluked his slam? (no other notable results)

Am I wrong that he's basically a bitch to the big 3? (Mandy as well really)

Time to stop hiding behind the 3 year old injury and admit this guy lacks the game to win big titles - he's ballbashing Ferrer who lucked out a slam. Their other achievements are pretty much on the same level (except David is more consistent).

Mark Lenders
09-23-2012, 02:17 AM
Berdych does have a better serve :shrug:

He has a better first serve definitely. Del Potro gets a higher % of first serves in and his second serve is far better/less attackable. I'll definitely take JMDP's more reliable serve over Berdych, who has a world class 1st serve but poor % and a weak second serve.

Anyway, the only reason this is a contest is Del Potro's constant injuries , he's definitely clearly the better player of the two.

Mark Lenders
09-23-2012, 02:20 AM
So Del Potro has better volleys, serve and BH as well??? :superlol:x1000

And am I wrong that he can't win a masters?

Am I wrong that he fluked his slam? (no other notable results)

Am I wrong that he's basically a bitch to the big 3? (Mandy as well really)

Time to stop hiding behind the 3 year old injury and admit this guy lacks the game to win big titles - he's ballbashing Ferrer who lucked out a slam. Their other achievements are pretty much on the same level (except David is more consistent).

Their volleys and BH are on similar levels - Del Potro's are less prone to break down under pressure, but that's because he mentally stronger -, Del Potro's serve is more reliable.

Yes, you are wrong that he can't win a Masters. He hasn't so far, but he has the ability to do it in the future.

You're wrong that he fluked his Slam. He had reached a Slam SF in the same year and then went on to reach the final of the WTF. Conclusion: he was one of the best players at the time.

Yes, you are wrong that he's a basically a bitch to the Big 3. He has beaten each of them in big matches and has given big trouble to Nadal and Djokovic even in his return year.

But in neither of your previous assertions have you even come close to being as wrong as when you stated Ferrer is more consistent than Del Potro :facepalm:

uxyzapenje
09-23-2012, 02:26 AM
He has a better first serve definitely. Del Potro gets a higher % of first serves in and his second serve is far better/less attackable. I'll definitely take JMDP's more reliable serve over Berdych, who has a world class 1st serve but poor % and a weak second serve.

Anyway, the only reason this is a contest is Del Potro's constant injuries , he was definitely clearly the better player of the two.

He WAS. In 2009 and first half of 2011. Now they are the same - they belong in the 2nd tier of players and when on, they can beat anyone. But I'm dissapointed in Delpo. I expected him to be ranked no3 or 4. He current level is below Ferrers for most of the time (I know you don't agree) and he has nothing 'special' to offer (bar few matches a year). He still beats lower ranked/worse players, but rly is starting to fade as a contender... 2012 should have been his year of total comeback and getting the new career high ranking but he needed more than half of the year only to get to no8...

Topspindoctor
09-23-2012, 02:34 AM
Their volleys and BH are on similar levels - Del Potro's are less prone to break down under pressure, but that's because he mentally stronger -, Del Potro's serve is more reliable.

Berdych is much better at the net, he's actually not afraid to come in and put volleys away, that's one of the primary reasons why he's so tough for Noserer - Del Potro is a baseline camper who won't approach the net even after he gains advantage from the back.

Also you're confusing mental strength and technical ability. When Berdshit shows up, he's a clown for sure. At his best his BH >>>> Del Potro.

Yes, you are wrong that he can't win a Masters. He hasn't so far, but he has the ability to do it in the future.

Maybe something like Paris indoors or Shanghai :shrug:

You're wrong that he fluked his Slam. He had reached a Slam SF in the same year and then went on to reach the final of the WTF. Conclusion: he was one of the best players at the time.

Context is important as well. Nadal was injuried and Noserer choked. It was not as impressive of a run as it looks on paper.

Yes, you are wrong that he's a basically a bitch to the Big 3. He has beaten each of them in big matches and has given big trouble to Nadal and Djokovic even in his return year.

It doesn't matter, his H2H vs the big 3 is embarrassing: 7-26, doesn't matter if he can trouble them or not. It's still a joke, my bich comment stands.


But in neither of your previous assertions have you even come close to being as wrong as when you stated Ferrer is more consistent than Del Potro :facepalm:

David is more consistent, he's been a top 5 player for a long time and usually has less embarrassing losses.

Mark Lenders
09-23-2012, 02:39 AM
He WAS. In 2009 and first half of 2011. Now they are the same - they belong in the 2nd tier of players and when on, they can beat anyone. But I'm dissapointed in Delpo. I expected him to be ranked no3 or 4. He current level is below Ferrers for most of the time (I know you don't agree) and he has nothing 'special' to offer (bar few matches a year). He still beats lower ranked/worse players, but rly is starting to fade as a contender... 2012 should have been his year of total comeback and getting the new career high ranking but he needed more than half of the year only to get to no8...

He still is. The difference is smaller than it should be, but Del Potro is still the better player of the two. He is far more likely to live up to his seeding and a bigger threat overall to the top players too. He'll also win most matches between them, but that's a matchup issue. I love both players, but there's no doubt in my mind that Del Potro is clearly the better of the two and, most crucially, the one with most potential to achieve in the future.

I agree Del Potro has offered nothing special this year bar at the Olympics. That year you describe will happen as soon as he can get fully fit/healthy. If he keeps getting injured every other week, he'll get to #5 eventually but never more than that. He needs to be in good condtion to challenge for Slams/break the top 4. Even while injured/in poor form he is too much for the overwhelming majority of the tour, but once he reaches the top 4 it's over.

Mark Lenders
09-23-2012, 02:50 AM
Berdych is much better at the net, he's actually not afraid to come in and put volleys away, that's one of the primary reasons why he's so tough for Noserer - Del Potro is a baseline camper who won't approach the net even after he gains advantage from the back.

Also you're confusing mental strength and technical ability. When Berdshit shows up, he's a clown for sure. At his best his BH >>>> Del Potro.

Del Potro approaches the net less often, but when he does he usually has good numbers there. Berdych can volley excellently at times, but he's very prone to break down under pressure, see his volleying vs Nadal at the AO this year.

Berdych on his best days has a better BH than Del Potro - JMDP's backhand is mostly a safe/set up shot, he doesn't take too many risks with it but hardly any errors too. But as far as consistency is concerned, JMDP wins by a landslide. At his best, Berdych is as good or better than Del Potro for sure, but on average it's a clear edge for Delpo, which is why he's the far better player. Even while injured/playing horribly, JMDP would never lose in a big tournament to the likes of Darcis or Gulbis, it takes a top seed to take him out.

Maybe something like Paris indoors or Shanghai :shrug:

Definitely. He should also win one of the clay masters at some point, he plays his best tennis on clay. Point is it is extremely unlikely he will retire with 0 Masters.


Context is important as well. Nadal was injuried and Noserer choked. It was not as impressive of a run as it looks on paper.

The draw was full of players who could have taken advantage of that, yet it was Del Potro who did. Nadal wasn't at his best, but was still too much for the rest of the field. Beating Nadal and Federer is impressive no matter the circumstances.

It doesn't matter, his H2H vs the big 3 is embarrassing: 7-26, doesn't matter if he can trouble them or not. It's still a joke, my bich comment stands.

That only proves that the big 3 have been better players than him over the years, which is not very debatable, everyone knows it. If he was their bitch though, he'd not have taken out in important tournaments. He was the only man other than Nadal to beat Federer in a Slam final, gave Nadal one of his worst beating in GS and reduced Djokovic to tears after he failed to get an Olympic medal.

In tennis terms, a bitch would be someone who does not represent a threat in big matches, JMDP does not match that description at all.


David is more consistent, he's been a top 5 player for a long time and usually has less embarrassing losses.

Are we talking about the same guy who has losses to Bellucci and Istomin this year, and even in his best players has Slam losses to the likes of Verdasco, Melzer, Ramirez Hidalgo and co.? Del Potro is far less likely to lose to low ranked players.

uxyzapenje
09-23-2012, 02:54 AM
He still is. The difference is smaller than it should be, but Del Potro is still the better player of the two. He is far more likely to live up to his seeding and a bigger threat overall to the top players too. He'll also win most matches between them, but that's a matchup issue. I love both players, but there's no doubt in my mind that Del Potro is clearly the better of the two and, most crucially, the one with most potential to achieve in the future.

I agree Del Potro has offered nothing special this year bar at the Olympics. That year you describe will happen as soon as he can get fully fit/healthy. If he keeps getting injured every other week, he'll get to #5 eventually but never more than that. He needs to be in good condtion to challenge for Slams/break the top 4. Even while injured/in poor form he is too much for the overwhelming majority of the tour, but once he reaches the top 4 it's over.

The truth is that I don't care if he mannages to break the top 4 or not. He propably will. Federer and Ferrer are 30something y-olds and will go away from the very top in the next year(s) and he's no4... Even if he gets to no2 playing like this (when he's not injured), he'll be like Mandy - allways waiting for Djokovic/Nadal or some future dominant player to have a bad day to beat them. I want to see that beast in him, dominating with his FH, slaping players around, not this constistant 2 teir player. We don't want him to become the next generations Ferrer now, do we?

Mark Lenders
09-23-2012, 03:03 AM
The truth is that I don't care if he mannages to break the top 4 or not. He propably will. Federer and Ferrer are 30something y-olds and will go away from the very top in the next year(s) and he's no4... Even if he gets to no2 playing like this (when he's not injured), he'll be like Mandy - allways waiting for Djokovic/Nadal or some future dominant player to have a bad day to beat them. I want to see that beast in him, dominating with his FH, slaping players around, not this constistant 2 teir player. We don't want him to become the next generations Ferrer now, do we?

He will never be the next generation's Ferrer lol. I might be wrong, but I think it was you who said in some thread that Delpo's FH was the best shot in men's tennis. I agree with that, and as long as can swing that FH he'll always be more threatening than players like Ferrer. That's actually why he is so effective vs low ranked players, as soon as he gets to hit even a single FH in a rally the rally is pretty much over. At worse, he'd be this generation's version of Safin - a guy who for any given reasons can't be a consistent player but can beat anyone and win any tournament when at his best.

I agree with the rest, especially the bolded part. He has the game and the mentality/desire to become that beast. Let's just hope his body lets him, it basically comes down to that.

uxyzapenje
09-23-2012, 03:14 AM
He will never be the next generation's Ferrer lol. I might be wrong, but I think it was you who said in some thread that Delpo's FH was the best shot in men's tennis. I agree with that, and as long as can swing that FH he'll always be more threatening than players like Ferrer. That's actually why he is so effective vs low ranked players, as soon as he gets to hit even a single FH in a rally the rally is pretty much over. At worse, he'd be this generation's version of Safin - a guy who for any given reasons can't be a consistent player but can beat anyone and win any tournament when at his best.

I agree with the rest, especially the bolded part. He has the game and the mentality/desire to become that beast. Let's just hope his body lets him, it basically comes down to that.

Yes, I said it. But i ment his 2009 FH, not the current version of it. It's still one of the best and his money shot, but not that good that players can't get it back. That's why he soses against Novak, Murray, Ferrer... They just get his FH back to him (to his BH) and his massive stoke from the previous shot is neutralised. Against the guys like Berdych or Tsonga, he can just outpower them and beat them, no problem... And by the way, 'today' i would say Nadal's topspin FH is the best shot in the game (nout counting Isner's 1st serve)

Mark Lenders
09-23-2012, 03:25 AM
Yes, I said it. But i ment his 2009 FH, not the current version of it. It's still one of the best and his money shot, but not that good that players can't get it back. That's why he soses against Novak, Murray, Ferrer... They just get his FH back to him (to his BH) and his massive stoke from the previous shot is neutralised. Against the guys like Berdych or Tsonga, he can just outpower them and beat them, no problem... And by the way, 'today' i would say Nadal's topspin FH is the best shot in the game (nout counting Isner's 1st serve)

His forehand is back, imo. He has been hitting it great since the Olympics. In OG, his FH was deadly against Nishikori, Federer and Djokovic, it was the first time since his comeback he hit it like it was 2009 all over again and he kept that up I think. He won a match vs Troicki while slicing every BH simply because as soon as he got to hit one single FH during a rally the point was over. Against Novak in USO, he had no BH (wrist problem), he hit 0 BH winners, all the trouble he caused to Novak in that match came from his awesome forehand. He has finally gotten over that mental barrier and is hitting his FH in full flow again, I think.

Yes, the biggest weapon in men's tennis is definitely Isner's serve. In terms of groundstrokes, it'd have to be a forehand and it'd come down to Federer, Nadal or Del Potro's. Nadal's topspin FH is a great shout definitely, not only is it a deadly shot, it also makes him a bad matchup for the vast majority of the tour. Federer has the most versatile FH maybe ever. JMDP trumps everyone for sheer power/pace.

GOATsol
09-23-2012, 03:27 AM
I can't goodrep you Lenders, but I completely agree with you! You are a great tennis analyst.

Mark Lenders
09-23-2012, 03:35 AM
I can't goodrep you Lenders, but I completely agree with you! You are a great tennis analyst.

I can't goodrep you either, but I'll make sure to get back to this post and rep it when I can. It deserves it, you can definitely recognize a great tennis analyst when you see one ;) :p Seriously, thanks :)

Hope the predictions in your sig both come true, especially the first one :D

finishingmove
09-23-2012, 03:37 AM
Whoever ________ ...

(finish the sentence)

uxyzapenje
09-23-2012, 03:39 AM
I can't goodrep you either, but I'll make sure to get back to this post and rep it when I can. It deserves it, you can definitely recognize a great tennis analyst when you see one ;) :p Seriously, thanks :)

Hope the predictions in your sig both come true, especially the first one :D

I would take the 2nd one. :D
P.S. I can good rep you both, but I don't think I will. Maybe tomorrow :p

uxyzapenje
09-23-2012, 03:42 AM
Whoever ________ ...

(finish the sentence)

Whoever likes fish sticks and putting them in his mouth is a gay fish...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md6qOBJba6Y

GOATsol
09-23-2012, 03:54 AM
I can't goodrep you either, but I'll make sure to get back to this post and rep it when I can. It deserves it, you can definitely recognize a great tennis analyst when you see one ;) :p Seriously, thanks :)

Hope the predictions in your sig both come true, especially the first one :D
:)

swisht4u
09-23-2012, 04:01 AM
I went with DelPo.

DelPo is a strange player.
I try to see his matches whenever I can and see about half of them.

When DelPo plays I have a hard time figuring out how he wins.

He seems to move so slow and doesn't really hit the ball hard a lot of the time.
The serve is pretty good but not for someone as tall as he is, he should be using that height advantage more on the serve.

His endurance is lacking, at times he'll just get the ball back and many times he won't even run for balls that he can get to if he wants.
He just tries to conserve energy whenever he can.

My main gripe is his endurance, I've seen plenty of matches where he just isn't putting full effort in moving around the court.
When he does then he's drained for a few points.

There's no reason he can't be in top physical condition, if he can get this area in good shape like it was in 2009 he'll save himself a few sets before getting into the later stages of tournaments.
And when he gets to the final matches he'll not only have the extra endurance he worked for but less sets played on top of that.

I'm still waiting for prime Delpo.

Roy Emerson
09-23-2012, 04:06 AM
Berdych

Mark Lenders
09-23-2012, 04:09 AM
I went with DelPo.

DelPo is a strange player.
I try to see his matches whenever I can and see about half of them.

When DelPo plays I have a hard time figuring out how he wins.

He seems to move so slow and doesn't really hit the ball hard a lot of the time.
The serve is pretty good but not for someone as tall as he is, he should be using that height advantage more on the serve.

His endurance is lacking, at times he'll just get the ball back and many times he won't even run for balls that he can get to if he wants.
He just tries to conserve energy whenever he can.

My main gripe is his endurance, I've seen plenty of matches where he just isn't putting full effort in moving around the court.
When he does then he's drained for a few points.

There's no reason he can't be in top physical condition, if he can get this area in good shape like it was in 2009 he'll save himself a few sets before getting into the later stages of tournaments.
And when he gets to the final matches he'll not only have the extra endurance he worked for but less sets played on top of that.

I'm still waiting for prime Delpo.

One word: consistency.

Even on his worst days, JMDP is too consistent for the vast majority of the tour. He never beats himself, you have to beat him. It is not the same Del Potro who won a Slam and was about to break into the top 3 back in 2009/early 2010, but his consistent power is still too much to handle for all but a handful of players.

swisht4u
09-23-2012, 04:20 AM
One word: consistency.

Even on his worst days, JMDP is too consistent for the vast majority of the tour. He never beats himself, you have to beat him. It is not the same Del Potro who won a Slam and was about to break into the top 3 back in 2009/early 2010, but his consistent power is still too much to handle for all but a handful of players.

I think your right, even without putting a lot on the ball he can get it back pretty well. He doesn't give away a lot of free points.

atennisfan
09-23-2012, 06:21 AM
Berdych. no contest.

Chirag
09-23-2012, 06:48 AM
Berdych

Satasonic
09-23-2012, 09:18 AM
Sadly, it will be Berdych. Del Potro has injury issues at the moment and Berdych will most certainly capitalise in the indoor swing.

nevenez
09-23-2012, 09:22 AM
The better player.