Year-End Masters (WTF) underrated? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Year-End Masters (WTF) underrated?

DJ Soup
09-12-2012, 11:36 PM
Most people consider the WTF to be the next big thing after the slams.
Fair enough I say.

But I am under the impression that there is a big gap between slams and WTF when accounting accomplishments.
Most people might say: 17 > 11
But I'd also say hey Federer won 6 WTF. That's INSANE!

I consider WTF to be perhaps the most difficult tournament around. The concept of having to play 5 times against top 8 players in a week to win is way more intense than at Slams where the top 8 players play at most 3 times against each other (usually 2 matches) to win. WTF used to have a best of 5 sets final until 2008, then it lost a bit of its prestige I guess.
Shouldn't WTF be valued just almost as much as a slam?
I love that tournament, it oozes mastery of the game, and pure class. It always had classy winners.
Winning it makes you The MAESTRO.

So my statement is: WTF accomplishments should be made more relevant than it is now.
Someone with 4 slams and 2 WTFs should be considered more successful than someone with 5 slams and 0 WTFs.
Do you agree or disagree?
Discuss

BigJohn
09-12-2012, 11:38 PM
Do you mean the tournament that is widely called the World Toast Finals nowadays?

EliSter
09-12-2012, 11:38 PM
WTF is overrated if its somewhere in the middle of season it would be awesome. But most players are dead by then and we dont see best tennis possibile. Federer being balerina that never gets tired and indoor lover gets it always easy.

Freak3yman84
09-12-2012, 11:40 PM
It's overrated. The fact of the matter is that all of the players are tired as f*ck by the time the WTF come around, and for the most part it's bad tennis. I think people make too big of a deal about it...

Brick Top
09-12-2012, 11:40 PM
Top 8 players, no mugs, no WTA bull*hit and screaming biatches to interrupt TV schedule. Players are often tired, but it is like a fifth slam if you ask me.

BigJohn
09-12-2012, 11:41 PM
WTF is overrated if its somewhere in the middle of season it would be awesome. But most players are dead by then and we dont see best tennis possibile. Federer being balerina that never gets tired and indoor lover gets it always easy.

Yeah. The year end championships should be held in the middle of the season.
:yeah:

Jimnik
09-12-2012, 11:45 PM
WTF? WTF has WTF been underrented?

DJ Soup
09-12-2012, 11:45 PM
HA! hahahahah

Tired? Tired is not an excuse. You think that mini new-year vacations is enough to recharge batteries?
Players take breaks and vacations at different points of the season. EDIT: and most take long vacations after the USO.
Not only that. If a player is tired by the end of the season, it's their fault. Longevity, efficiency and endurance are factors relevant in tennis. They are factors that account for a player's greatness.

No petty tiredness excuse please

EliSter
09-12-2012, 11:46 PM
Yeah. The year end championships should be held in the middle of the season.
:yeah:

U got my point great as always, The middle year championship? :confused:

Sanya
09-12-2012, 11:49 PM
So many people repeat like parrots the same stupidness about "tired players" because it`s "end of the season" like after it they will have two years for rest and at AO they will appear fresh and new like rose. :facepalm: In reality after AO, after Miami (who skips MC), after Wimbledon and after US top players have the same time to rest. Or almost the same, sometimes even more. That`s why it`s stupid to say about some miracle tiredness at WTF and then freshness at AO. It`s closer to reality in WTA where in October season is over and 1/4 of year is free from play till new season.

Returning to topic - WTF is 5th the most important tournament. Nothing to add here.

r2473
09-12-2012, 11:50 PM
Its underrented

But not as underrented as the slice

BigJohn
09-12-2012, 11:52 PM
U got my point great as always, The middle year championship? :confused:

What's wonderful about this suggestion is that it does not sound retarded one bit. It's on par with the lucky loser suggestion from a short while ago.

r2473
09-12-2012, 11:53 PM
I watch the effort the guys put out for a slam.

I watch the effort the guys put out for WTF.

I know which one matters to all the players all the time.

I know which one matters to some of the players some of the time.

Bad Religion
09-12-2012, 11:54 PM
Glorified exho.
The ATP tries hard to make it happen but it fails.

Mark Lenders
09-12-2012, 11:54 PM
This tired players mantra is BS. If certain players don't want to be tired, just stop pushing and grinding in every tournament of the year. The tournament doesn't lose value because certain players play a kind of game that drains everything out of their body.

Federer hasn't won 6 WTFs because his rivals are tired. He won 6 WTFs because, unlike his rivals, he doesn't have to grind himself and his opponents down to win points and matches. His effortless movement on the tennis court is righty rewarded, that's all there is to it.

EliSter
09-12-2012, 11:59 PM
HA! hahahahah

Tired? Tired is not an excuse. You think that mini new-year vacations is enough to recharge batteries?
Players take breaks and vacations at different points of the season.
Not only that. If a player is tired by the end of the season, it's their fault. Longevity, efficiency and endurance are factors relevant in tennis. They are factors that account for a player's greatness.

No petty tiredness excuse please

Season is hard and grueling, lately we dont see great quality WTF. If by great quality you mean Olderer destroying everyone. longevity, efficiency and endurance are factors relevant in tennis but 6 of them are atleast always in the end of every single tournament and when slams are over the excitmen goes down and realy u can feel tension like on other big tournies. Oh well my opinion atleast.

DJ Soup
09-12-2012, 11:59 PM
I watch the effort the guys put out for a slam.

I watch the effort the guys put out for WTF.

I know which one matters to all the players all the time.

I know which one matters to some of the players some of the time.

you are confused and misguided by the difference between a 3 setter and a 5 setter. (Davis Cup tend to bring awesome matches because it's best of 5)

Players do look forward to the WTF

BigJohn
09-13-2012, 12:00 AM
Season is hard and grueling, lately we dont see great quality WTF. If by great quality you mean Olderer destroying everyone. longevity, efficiency and endurance are factors relevant in tennis but 6 of them are atleast always in the end of every single tournament and when slams are over the excitmen goes down and realy u can feel tension like on other big tournies. Oh well my opinion atleast.

An opinion shared by Start da Game. Very telling.

shumpy
09-13-2012, 12:07 AM
This tired players mantra is BS. If certain players don't want to be tired, just stop pushing and grinding in every tournament of the year. The tournament doesn't lose value because certain players play a kind of game that drains everything out of their body.

Federer hasn't won 6 WTFs because his rivals are tired. He won 6 WTFs because, unlike his rivals, he doesn't have to grind himself and his opponents down to win points and matches. His effortless movement on the tennis court is righty rewarded, that's all there is to it.

Well said.:yeah:

DJ Soup
09-13-2012, 12:10 AM
This tired players mantra is BS. If certain players don't want to be tired, just stop pushing and grinding in every tournament of the year. The tournament doesn't lose value because certain players play a kind of game that drains everything out of their body.

Federer hasn't won 6 WTFs because his rivals are tired. He won 6 WTFs because, unlike his rivals, he doesn't have to grind himself and his opponents down to win points and matches. His effortless movement on the tennis court is righty rewarded, that's all there is to it.

Thank you

Now can we get into the more interesting debate:

Someone with 4 slams and 2 WTFs should be considered more successful than someone with 5 slams and 0 WTFs.
Do you agree or disagree?

BigJohn
09-13-2012, 12:11 AM
Thank you

Now can we get into the more interesting debate:

Someone with 4 slams and 2 WTFs should be considered more successful than someone with 5 slams and 0 WTFs.
Do you agree or disagree?

There are other factors to consider.

EliSter
09-13-2012, 12:11 AM
An opinion shared by Start da Game. Very telling.

I have same stalker like him then. Im not honored to be honest.

EliSter
09-13-2012, 12:13 AM
Thank you

Now can we get into the more interesting debate:

Someone with 4 slams and 2 WTFs should be considered more successful than someone with 5 slams and 0 WTFs.
Do you agree or disagree?

No. Slams are slams, players peak and do they best at these events. WTF is big tournament but even 5 of them cant hold the same value as lifting GS trophy.

BigJohn
09-13-2012, 12:25 AM
I have same stalker like him then. Im not honored to be honest.

Really? The guy who has me out of context in his sig, who actually stalks my posts and calls non stop for my ban even when not part of the conversation now calls me a stalker? Wow. Simply wow. Talk about bad faith and twisting reality... Disturbing shit to be honest.

EliSter
09-13-2012, 12:29 AM
Really? The guy who has me out of context in his sig, who actually stalks my posts and calls non stop for my ban even when not part of the conversation now calls me a stalker? Wow. Simply wow. Talk about bad faith and twisting reality... Disturbing shit to be honest.

Sure :lol: Cool strory bro, tell it again please.

Bad Religion
09-13-2012, 12:39 AM
Someone with 4 slams and 2 WTFs should be considered more successful than someone with 5 slams and 0 WTFs.
Do you agree or disagree?

Letīs be honest, nobody remembers the YEC/WTF. Ex Clijsters, she won 3 YEC but everybody considers Hingis the greater player because of the 5 slams.

Pusha T
09-13-2012, 12:46 AM
WTF is overrated because Federer always wins.
Fixed.

MaxPower
09-13-2012, 12:47 AM
Yes WTF is the playoffs. Slams are regular season. Points collected during regular season are used to even qualify for WTF


Normally this would mean WTF is super-prestigious. It's mug-free. To even play WTF you got to be a world class player. You have to be top8 or a slam champion.

Only reason WTF isn't seen as way more important than the slams is tradition. To some extent also the fact that the format and some bad decisions turned WTF a bit more "exhibition-like" than being the serious "do or die tournament" it should be.

At least it's a ton of points at stake and that helps but technically there should be even more at stake.

In many sports the regular season means nothing unless you do good in the playoffs. In tennis players can fail 0-3 in WTF and people could still say their season was awesome

redshift36188
09-13-2012, 01:01 AM
Now can we get into the more interesting debate:

Someone with 4 slams and 2 WTFs should be considered more successful than someone with 5 slams and 0 WTFs.
Do you agree or disagree?
I'd even take 4 Slams and 1 WTF vs 5 Slams, assuming similar Slam diversity that is.

It would mean I'd be a more complete player for winning a big indoor event, as well.

BigJohn
09-13-2012, 01:03 AM
Sure :lol: Cool strory bro, tell it again please.

You deny that part (easy for anyone to see) and don't deny the rest.

:facepalm:

I overestimated you.

Tag
09-13-2012, 02:18 AM
Year End Championship decides who is the best player amongst the top 8, it's that simple

obviously in some years, you get the odd player or two who is just lucky to be there that year, but it's the most prestigious tournament after the slams. and until the AO really took off in the mid-80s, it was more prestigious than that

when comparing players, after slams and slam finals, the Year End Championship is right up there with weeks at no1 as the criteria for deciding the best of the best

rocketassist
09-13-2012, 02:20 AM
If the physical guys wanna win it, simple, schedule better.

Federer's effortless game plus wise scheduling around the indoor season have been important in his recent success there.

It's not worth as much as a few years back though for the simple reason the best of 5 final's gone. That adds extra prestige.

Aloevera
09-13-2012, 02:44 AM
No. WTF is WTF, it should be Year-End, not in the middle of the season. It's part of the challenge. And it's never underrated.

cmoss
09-13-2012, 03:27 AM
It's bigger than all masters,and the surface is quick,producing good tennis for aggressive players.:)

uxyzapenje
09-13-2012, 06:13 AM
If anything, it's overrated. Yes, it is the 6th most important tournament in tennis (after GSs and Olympics), but players are tired, and I'm not talking about physical aspect of it, mentaly they just want to go to offseason, especially the very top players (top 4 without Fed).

Edit: To the OP, 1 GS > 2 WTFs

DJ Soup
09-13-2012, 06:27 AM
If anything, it's overrated. Yes, it is the 6th most important tournament in tennis (after GSs and Olympics), but players are tired, and I'm not talking about physical aspect of it, mentaly they just want to go to offseason, especially the very top players (top 4 without Fed).

Edit: To the OP, 1 GS > 2 WTFs

no way the Olympics is more important than the WTF. The Olympics is like a Master Series that happens once every 4 years.

WTF is the cream of the crop playing each other for THE MAESTRO title.

manadrainer
09-13-2012, 06:37 AM
no way the Olympics is more important than the WTF. The Olympics is like a Master Series that happens once every 4 years.

WTF is the cream of the crop playing each other for THE MAESTRO title.

This. Also Olympics doesn't prove you own some kind of mastery, whereas winning WTF proves you are an indoor master.

tiredness is just an excuse IMO. Djokovic took six weeks off after the USO last year, how could he be tired? How come Fed at 30+ gets there always fresh, while his younger rivals bitch about length of the season?

Even when Fed played everything he came to the WTF ready to compete.

And playing fellow took players makes it very difficult from the first match.

Nixer
09-13-2012, 07:45 AM
I always think overrated, but whatever.

Michael Armando
09-13-2012, 08:04 AM
No. Slams are slams, players peak and do they best at these events. WTF is big tournament but even 5 of them cant hold the same value as lifting GS trophy.

Yes WTF is the playoffs. Slams are regular season. Points collected during regular season are used to even qualify for WTF


Normally this would mean WTF is super-prestigious. It's mug-free. To even play WTF you got to be a world class player. You have to be top8 or a slam champion.

Only reason WTF isn't seen as way more important than the slams is tradition. To some extent also the fact that the format and some bad decisions turned WTF a bit more "exhibition-like" than being the serious "do or die tournament" it should be.

At least it's a ton of points at stake and that helps but technically there should be even more at stake.

In many sports the regular season means nothing unless you do good in the playoffs. In tennis players can fail 0-3 in WTF and people could still say their season was awesome

Elister, ditto for the multislams players, they can't trade 10 slams for just 1 WTF. You needed multiple wins against best of the best.

Maxpower, yes... it's about tradition. WTF started 1970. Slams history about more than 100years. WTF, even it's name and venue always changes. 2000-2010 Tennis Masters Cup, 1990-1999 ATP Tour World Championships, 1970-1989 Masters Grand Prix.

Imo, It's difficult call which one was more easier to won, but to be called GREAT, a player had to won multiple slams + multiple WTFs

Roger won @ Houston outdoor hardcourt 2003-2004, @ Shanghai indoor hard 2006-2007, @ London indoor hard 2010-2011, So, not all the Year End Championship was indoor. He is really GREAT in any surface and could adapted it quickly.

tripwires
09-13-2012, 08:28 AM
Thank you

Now can we get into the more interesting debate:

Someone with 4 slams and 2 WTFs should be considered more successful than someone with 5 slams and 0 WTFs.
Do you agree or disagree?

The WTF is only underrated on MTF by butthurt Noletrolls and Nadaltards. :)

As to your question: all things remaining equal, yes, I agree.

This. Also Olympics doesn't prove you own some kind of mastery, whereas winning WTF proves you are an indoor master.

tiredness is just an excuse IMO. Djokovic took six weeks off after the USO last year, how could he be tired? How come Fed at 30+ gets there always fresh, while his younger rivals bitch about length of the season?

Even when Fed played everything he came to the WTF ready to compete.

And playing fellow took players makes it very difficult from the first match.

:worship:



Roger won @ Houston outdoor hardcourt 2003-2004, @ Shanghai indoor hard 2006-2007, @ London indoor hard 2010-2011, So, not all the Year End Championship was indoor. He is really GREAT in any surface and could adapted it quickly. (emphasis in bold added)

People should remember this fact before calling the WTF a mug indoor tournament that Roger wins only because it's indoors. :lol:

Aloevera
09-13-2012, 08:36 AM
If anything, it's overrated. Yes, it is the 6th most important tournament in tennis (after GSs and Olympics), but players are tired, and I'm not talking about physical aspect of it, mentaly they just want to go to offseason, especially the very top players (top 4 without Fed).

Edit: To the OP, 1 GS > 2 WTFs

How is it still overrated if you put it below Olympics?

Players are tired? It's just a lame excuse. It's there every year since a long time ago. If they think it's not that important, might as well skipped it and rest. In that case, you can say it's overrated because not many top players are willing to participate, yes.

Johnbert
09-13-2012, 08:38 AM
It's overrated 'cause fed dominates it :)

Sent from my GT-I9100 using VerticalSports.Com App

Michael Armando
09-13-2012, 09:05 AM
ATP should reschedule and put it on 31Dec up to 1st week of the year.
Every top players should be fresh enough.:) and no more complaint from Fedhater

Looner
09-13-2012, 09:08 AM
Anything to underrate Federer.

duarte_a
09-13-2012, 09:25 AM
It's overrated 'cause fed dominates it :)

Sent from my GT-I9100 using VerticalSports.Com App

Anything to underrate Federer.

This.

Didn't nadull take 5 weeks off in 2010 or 2011 (don't remember exactely) before the YEC? Was he tired then also? Why did he take 5 weeks off before the YEC? Wasn't he trying his best to win the tournament?

There are 2 simple things for someone not biased to understand:

- 4 slams > YEC > Olympics > Masters 1000, in terms of prestige (of course masters 1000 give more points than the olympics)

- the fact that Roger has won 6 the YEC 6 times makes the tournament shit for the haters. Had nadal, djokovic and Roger won it a couple of times and it would be the 5th most important torunament after the slams for the haters.
I say otherwise if Roger won it 6 times it's because it's one of the best tournaments. After all Roger's most titles in a single tournament come in important ones 7x Wimbledon, 6x YEC...

fsoica
09-13-2012, 09:40 AM
Tbh, even as a Fed fan, it's not unacceptable to think that maybe the 2010 final could have gone Rafa's way if not for the Muzza sf. In that case, all this stupid debate would be useless, because Nadal fans would have begun to appreciate WTF more once their idol would have won it.

Imho, WTF is a beautiful and prestigious tournament where pure tennis skills are having more success usually then the new very athletic style that the younger trio from the top 4 imposed on tour the latter years.

Tiredness is sometimes a factor, but I am sure that once Rafa will win one WTF this debate will close.

I will always remember with pleasure the 2006 SF in Shanghai between Rafa and Roger. High quality, athleticism and pure tennis skills from both.

uxyzapenje
09-13-2012, 09:47 AM
How is it still overrated if you put it below Olympics?

Players are tired? It's just a lame excuse. It's there every year since a long time ago. If they think it's not that important, might as well skipped it and rest. In that case, you can say it's overrated because not many top players are willing to participate, yes.

It's not overrated by me :lol: If somebody says it's more important than the OGs, just :facepalm: Once in 4 years, players make their schedule around it, it gives them unique feeling of playing for their country and for fame. You think ppl would celebrate Murray (not counting USO) after winning the WTF then after the Olympics gold?

Anything to underrate Federer.


Nobody underrates Fed. That's arguably his best part of the season and he owns indoors even now (or at least last year). You can't blame the guy that he rates the even higher than Rafa or Novak do. Why wouldn't he make 1500 points and some money of it? But saying it's bigger than the Olympics... Just think about if Murray or Nadal or Massu would trade their Olympic gold for a WTF win? Ofc they wouldn't. And Fed would trade about 3 of his WTFs for 1 gold. And saying 2 WTFs > Slam is just too :stupid: for me to talk about

Nr 1 Fan
09-13-2012, 09:55 AM
HA! hahahahah

Tired? Tired is not an excuse. You think that mini new-year vacations is enough to recharge batteries?
Players take breaks and vacations at different points of the season. EDIT: and most take long vacations after the USO.
Not only that. If a player is tired by the end of the season, it's their fault. Longevity, efficiency and endurance are factors relevant in tennis. They are factors that account for a player's greatness.

No petty tiredness excuse please

No, but most players are mentally tired at the end of the season. To take on top 8 you have to be mentally sharp still and so I think WTF is often won by the players who can mentally rise up one more time and give it all.

Nr 1 Fan
09-13-2012, 09:58 AM
I agree it is underrated, after all it is a unique formula. A top player should win it a least once, otherwise it leaves a gap on his record of achievements.

henke007
09-13-2012, 10:15 AM
Only a GOAT can be undefeated at WTF btb..

Sophocles
09-13-2012, 11:34 AM
It's the sport's premier indoor tournament and for that reason alone it has or should have a lot of prestige. Look at the roll-call of champions: Nastase, Connors, Borg, McEnroe, Lendl, Edberg, Becker, Agassi, Sampras, Federer, Djokovic. Tired or not, every truly great player of the Open Era has won it at least once except the 2 who were shittest indoors, Wilander & Nadal. In fact it arguably has the most impressive roll-call of champions of any tournament in the Open Era. That suggests it has prestige among the players.

BigJohn
09-13-2012, 11:41 AM
It's the toughest tournament to qualify for and features the highest quality of opponents. It is underrented only by fools.

Looner
09-13-2012, 11:43 AM
It's the sport's premier indoor tournament and for that reason alone it has or should have a lot of prestige. Look at the roll-call of champions: Nastase, Connors, Borg, McEnroe, Lendl, Edberg, Becker, Agassi, Sampras, Federer, Djokovic. Tired or not, every truly great player of the Open Era has won it at least once except the 2 who were shittest indoors, Wilander & Nadal. In fact it arguably has the most impressive roll-call of champions of any tournament in the Open Era. That suggests it has prestige among the players.

:worship: Tards have been silenced. Or should have if they don't want to embarrass themselves.

Sophocles
09-13-2012, 12:11 PM
:worship: Tards have been silenced. Or should have if they don't want to embarrass themselves.

Much obliged.

To reinforce the point, the A.O. is missing Borg, McEnroe, Nastase, the F.O. Sampras, Mac, Djoker, Edberg, Becker, Connors, Wimbledon Lendl, Wilander, Nastase, and the U.S.O. Borg. The Masters is missing only Wilander & Lendl & that is certainly comparable to the slams. By contrast, the Olympics is missing Federer, Sampras, Djoker, Becker, just counting those who were competitive during its revival.

Garson007
09-13-2012, 12:12 PM
They should give the tournament one and a half weeks and 5 sets for the knock-outs. Then it will be more prestigious.

Sri
09-13-2012, 12:20 PM
It's a great tournament. No muggy matches, top eight players battling it out like they should.

The way they conduct it at London's O2 arena is awesome!

Evitman
09-13-2012, 12:47 PM
People tend to forget that there are things that are incomparable. Olympics and WTF are such things, since they are very different in many aspects.
I think Nadal, Massu, Murray wouldn't trade their OG for a WTF triump. And Federer also wouldn't trade any of his WTF wins for an OG, even it is the one he really really wants.

Time Violation
09-13-2012, 01:06 PM
A lot of people care only about slams and think everything else is MM - masters, WTF, and so on. Interestingly enough, while most Fed fans complain that WTF is unappreciated, they will happily post "17" all over the place, don't remember seeing many, if anyone, with "6" in the signature :p

hiperborejac
09-13-2012, 01:10 PM
They should give the tournament one and a half weeks and 5 sets for the knock-outs. Then it will be more prestigious.

That was exactly my thought. It should be 10 days tournament and 5 sets format every match.
If that was a case it would be even stronger than any GS tournament.
This way it stays as it is - stronger then MS but weaker then GS.

August
09-13-2012, 01:15 PM
Players are already too tired during WTF. And that's why I don't really understand the point of having WTF, it would be much better if players were playing their best tennis. Now it's won by the one who's not tired. And I think they should change the surface to carpet, thus it'd be kind of carpet slam. And Paris Masters' winner should be give WC to WTF, if somebody has a great indoor season like Nalby in '07, he should play in WTF.

Looner
09-13-2012, 01:20 PM
Players are already too tired during WTF. And that's why I don't really understand the point of having WTF, it would be much better if players were playing their best tennis. Now it's won by the one who's not tired. And I think they should change the surface to carpet, thus it'd be kind of carpet slam. And Paris Masters' winner should be give WC to WTF, if somebody has a great indoor season like Nalby in '07, he should play in WTF.

WHAAAAAAAAT?!? Please tell me what is the difference between a break of 6 weeks and a break 6 weeks ?!? Because you're implying there is one considering top players did not get more than that before the WTF and the AO. A completely uniformed post.


A lot of people care only about slams and think everything else is MM - masters, WTF, and so on. Interestingly enough, while most Fed fans complain that WTF is unappreciated, they will happily post "17" all over the place, don't remember seeing many, if anyone, with "6" in the signature :p
Um, we use mostly because the Nadulletard clowns refuse to appreciate WTF, so we can't annoy those illiterate fans with anything but the biggest gloryhunting targets.

ogbg
09-13-2012, 01:31 PM
WHAAAAAAAAT?!? Please tell me what is the difference between a break of 6 weeks and a break 6 weeks ?!? Because you're implying there is one considering top players did not get more than that before the WTF and the AO. A completely uniformed post. I was under the impression that the benefit of the new year break was not just rest but that the players also schedule an intensive conditioning block like the pre-season in football.

dazed1
09-13-2012, 01:34 PM
Season is hard and grueling, lately we dont see great quality WTF. If by great quality you mean Olderer destroying everyone. longevity, efficiency and endurance are factors relevant in tennis but 6 of them are atleast always in the end of every single tournament and when slams are over the excitmen goes down and realy u can feel tension like on other big tournies. Oh well my opinion atleast.

If 31 years old man can play at his best, then is no excuse 25 years old can't, not A CHANCE.

Not Federer fault hes 2x more talented then anyone else.

Matt01
09-13-2012, 01:50 PM
No, it's not underrated. It's rated correctly by most people here as far as I can see.


I say otherwise if Roger won it 6 times it's because it's one of the best tournaments. After all Roger's most titles in a single tournament come in important ones 7x Wimbledon, 6x YEC...


Yeah, that's the logic of Fedfans like you and Looner.
If Nadal had won the WTF six times, you'd say the tournament is overrated.

Looner
09-13-2012, 02:00 PM
I was under the impression that the benefit of the new year break was not just rest but that the players also schedule an intensive conditioning block like the pre-season in football.

Federer had a training block after the USO in 2011. So, it's not that they don't do training blocks. Tards simply seek excuses for the fact Federer has 6 times more titles at the event than Djokovic, Murray and Dull combined.


Yeah, that's the logic of Fedfans like you and Looner.
If Nadal had won the WTF six times, you'd say the tournament is overrated.

I wish you wouldn't mention my nickname in your moronic posts, Mattie. You never make sense and WTF is the 5the biggest tournament in tennis. So deal with it and do not talk about me.

PS Monte Carlo is a MM event :wavey:.

henke007
09-13-2012, 02:03 PM
Tired Fed def Tired top guys btb Wtf.s :worship:

Matt01
09-13-2012, 02:08 PM
I wish you wouldn't mention my nickname in your moronic posts, Mattie.


And I wish you would stop posting on this forum altogether but you don't always gets what you want :shrug:



You never make sense and WTF is the 5the biggest tournament in tennis. So deal with it and do not talk about me.


I never said otherwise :shrug:
It's the 5th biggest tourney in the world but it's nowhere near the Slams in prestige and importance. Deal with it.



PS Monte Carlo is a MM event :wavey:.


A MM tourney for which you get 1000 points when you win it. And you are telling me that I write moronic posts? Seriously?

duarte_a
09-13-2012, 02:10 PM
No, it's not underrated. It's rated correctly by most people here as far as I can see.





Yeah, that's the logic of Fedfans like you and Looner.
If Nadal had won the WTF six times, you'd say the tournament is overrated.

Lol now you're turning the argument around.....
It is the fed haters that say the YEC is shit because Roger has won it 6 times. nadaull tards obviously can't recognize the value of a tournament their spartan idol hasn't won once and has a losing 9-10 match record on. In the WTF there are no easy draws you play against the top 8 players of a given year.

4 slams > YEC > Olympics > mandatory masters 1000 > non-mandatory masters 1000 aka MC > 500 > 250. This is how it works it termos of value and prestige.

The fact that people include the MC titles from 2009 on when it became non mandatory in nadull's overal masters 1000 titles is ridiculous.

nadull is the non-manadatory masters 1000 GOAT. I'll give you that.

August
09-13-2012, 02:11 PM
WHAAAAAAAAT?!? Please tell me what is the difference between a break of 6 weeks and a break 6 weeks ?!? Because you're implying there is one considering top players did not get more than that before the WTF and the AO. A completely uniformed post.

Between USO and WTF there are tournaments, between WTF and AO only two weeks pre-AO. I'm sure players wouldn't want longer winter break if they were still freash after WTF.

luie
09-13-2012, 02:19 PM
It's a tourney with no easy draws ,so that means players who strive on easy draws cannot win.

Time Violation
09-13-2012, 02:22 PM
Um, we use mostly because the Nadulletard clowns refuse to appreciate WTF, so we can't annoy those illiterate fans with anything but the biggest gloryhunting targets.

Nonetheless, when you drive the importance of the slams sky-high, don't be surprised that many won't care about anything else. Btw, most of Nole fans have no problem with WTF, Nole won one title, played back to back finals, the last year was the only where he underperformed, and since his whole autumn was crap no wonder.

Aloevera
09-13-2012, 02:24 PM
You think ppl would celebrate Murray (not counting USO) after winning the WTF then after the Olympics gold?


.....

Probably depends on what kind of gold medal he got in that event. OG is always confusing. But this year is the best Olympic year for tennis though.

Looner
09-13-2012, 02:33 PM
Between USO and WTF there are tournaments, between WTF and AO only two weeks pre-AO. I'm sure players wouldn't want longer winter break if they were still freash after WTF.

You mean the Nadulle duo? They don't represent all the players.


And I wish you would stop posting on this forum altogether but you don't always gets what you want :shrug:
:lol: Of course you wish that happened so all the BS you write goes unnoticed.

Corey Feldman
09-13-2012, 02:43 PM
how is it underrated? ive never felt that

this is one of the all time great events, the 5th slam in my eyes, love the tournament, love the format

the veneus in the past were good but its really found its home in London which imo is the best venue on the whole tour... packed crowds every match and the blue court shining in the dark arena is perfection

just seen a pic of it somewhere the other day and cannot wait for this years event again

paseo
09-13-2012, 02:44 PM
Most top players say that qualifying for the WTF is one of their top priority. Don't be fooled by NadalTards or FedHaters, they have an agenda. They'll say anything, even stuff they don't really believe. It IS the 5th most important tournament. Not underrated at all.

Corey Feldman
09-13-2012, 02:48 PM
cant you wait for more Fed v Muzza and Nole v Nadal's here in the winter

http://www.lovetennisblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/atp_finals_o2_arena_spielfeld_2.jpg
http://www.elitetraveler.com/UserFiles/Image/elite_images/LONDON_IMG/LONDON_page1_image75.jpg
http://www.britishhotelsguide.com/Articles/O2%20Arena%20At%20Night.jpg

just amazing how we Brits do everything the best.

Corey Feldman
09-13-2012, 02:50 PM
http://s3media.ents24.com/image/000/066/543/443f722d46347a3f240704fb15b1b8ae464eb3b7.jpg

Nadal has never tainted this title with his name, thats what makes it even more special

paseo
09-13-2012, 02:50 PM
Yeah. London has been one of the best venue.

nole_no1
09-13-2012, 02:53 PM
It's the most important tournament after a GS and the toughest to win IMO

And the arena is impressive that's for sure

Looner
09-13-2012, 02:54 PM
It's the most important tournament after a GS and the toughest to win IMO

:yeah:

Corey Feldman
09-13-2012, 02:58 PM
'member this http://smileyshack.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/shappy_laughing_hehe_100-100.gif?w=1000&h=

VoW6KDc4NU8

warm regards

It's overrated. The fact of the matter is that all of the players are tired as f*ck by the time the WTF come around, and for the most part it's bad tennis. I think people make too big of a deal about it...this is alot of bollocks, go to wiki and check the winners/finals list of this event for the last 30 years, the all time greats always won/made the finals

dont judge it by the last few years since Rafael Kneedal came on the scene

Freak3yman84
09-13-2012, 03:03 PM
this is alot of bollocks, go to wiki and check the winners/finals list of this event for the last 30 years, the all time greats always won/made the finals

dont judge it by the last few years since Rafael Kneedal came on the scene

The game has changed, it's a lot more physical. It was great Tennis up until recently, and now it's just tired top players getting their asses handed to them by Physicallyyoungerer. So why shouldn't I base it off of recently? :confused:

Corey Feldman
09-13-2012, 03:03 PM
Year End Championship decides who is the best player amongst the top 8, it's that simple

obviously in some years, you get the odd player or two who is just lucky to be there that year, but it's the most prestigious tournament after the slams. and until the AO really took off in the mid-80s, it was more prestigious than that

when comparing players, after slams and slam finals, the Year End Championship is right up there with weeks at no1 as the criteria for deciding the best of the bestI remember 1999 in Hannover, Agassi committed a brilliant foot in mouth moment

he was gonna finish #1 that year and had beaten Sampras 6-2 6-2 in a round robin match but both had made it back to the Final and Agassi must have been so sure of himself for the final coz he made some comments like i wont feel like the true #1 if i dont win this final tomorrow

so Sampy smashed him to pieces in the final :lol::worship:

dazed1
09-13-2012, 03:04 PM
'member this http://smileyshack.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/shappy_laughing_hehe_100-100.gif?w=1000&h=

VoW6KDc4NU8

warm regards



Top rated comment from the video,

"To my knowledge, Federer is the only man to bagel Nadal on 3 different surfaces -grass-Wimbledon 06, clay-Hamburg 07, hard-London 11"

:worship:

ogbg
09-13-2012, 03:55 PM
Federer had a training block after the USO in 2011. So, it's not that they don't do training blocks.
I stand mistaken

EDIT: I stand corrected, that's the one

Johnny Groove
09-13-2012, 04:13 PM
Underrated since they got rid of the 5 set final.

Bad Religion
09-13-2012, 04:47 PM
It was better in Germany.

TigerTim
09-13-2012, 07:38 PM
It is like a indoor slam

Pansy Dancer fed clown is very good indoors :shrug:

Maybe he's very good??

Thunderfish8
09-13-2012, 07:52 PM
Wouldn't it make slightly more sense for the WTF to be played at the end of November or in December (obviously avoiding the Davis Cup final)?

That way, nobody can use the tired excuse because they will have had several weeks off, but it still acts as a season finale.

Fed fordawin
09-13-2012, 08:00 PM
NID fed haters are going to say it's overrated.

Truth is their favorite just can't play for s... in indoor conditions because their moonballing is exposed.

WTF is a very good tournament and generally of very high quality.

Federer doesn't have 17 major tournaments, but 23. Sukit hatas:wavey:

Sanya
09-13-2012, 08:06 PM
I just wonder what Rafa`s fans will write about WTF if Nadal takes it this year or next. 5th Slam, no?

15 excellent matches with great players without boring 1-2 rounds. Dream.

Evitman
09-13-2012, 08:07 PM
Federer doesn't have 17 major tournaments, but 23. Sukit hatas:wavey:
This! Totally agree!
Look at my sig, haters!

redshift36188
09-13-2012, 09:05 PM
17 + 6 = all active players' titles - 3

G4.
09-13-2012, 09:08 PM
YED the real grand slam

DJ Soup
09-13-2012, 09:11 PM
I think Federer's 6 Year-End Masters is one of the highest relevant records that shows he's the best player of his era by a far margin. Beating the top 8 consistently for 6 times is just Ridiculous.

I think this might as well be one of Federer's hardest records to beat

r3d_d3v1l_
09-13-2012, 09:29 PM
I canīt stand to hear the usual BS from Nadal and Nole tards.

In 2010, 24 year old Nadal played 3 tournaments (Bangkok, Tokyo, Shanghai) and 12 matches. On the other hand 29 year old Federer played 4 tournaments (Shanghai, Stockholm, Basel, Paris) and 21 matches. Nadal had more than a month to recover from the Asian Swing. Federer however only had barely 2 weeks.

In the end, when Federer defeated Nadal (once again) in the WTF Final, i gladly remember that some said that Nadal was tired, when he faced an almost 30 year old that had played more matches than him and that had less time to recover to the last big tournament of the year.

So how come a younger player that plays less tournaments and less matches has so many troubles recovering from a semifinal?

selyoink
09-13-2012, 09:34 PM
I think WTF is most prestigious tournament there is. Only true legends can win this event like Davy.

Looner
09-13-2012, 09:37 PM
I canīt stand to hear the usual BS from Nadal and Nole tards.

In 2010, 24 year old Nadal played 3 tournaments (Bangkok, Tokyo, Shanghai) and 12 matches. On the other hand 29 year old Federer played 4 tournaments (Shanghai, Stockholm, Basel, Paris) and 21 matches. Nadal had more than a month to recover from the Asian Swing. Federer however only had barely 2 weeks.

In the end, when Federer defeated Nadal (once again) in the WTF Final, i gladly remember that some said that Nadal was tired, when he faced an almost 30 year old that had played more matches than him and that had less time to recover to the last big tournament of the year.

So how come a younger player that plays less tournaments and less matches has so many troubles recovering from a semifinal?

Let me pre-empt the usual stupid answers - Murray tired out Dull the day before.

r3d_d3v1l_
09-13-2012, 10:04 PM
Let me pre-empt the usual stupid answers - Murray tired out Dull the day before.

Tired out the same Nadal that recovered from the AO semi final with Verdasco?

hipolymer
09-13-2012, 10:08 PM
I think Federer's 6 Year-End Masters is one of the highest relevant records that shows he's the best player of his era by a far margin. Beating the top 8 consistently for 6 times is just Ridiculous.

I think this might as well be one of Federer's hardest records to beat

I think Lendl's nine straight YEC finals is more impressive, ESPECIALLY considering the finals were best of 5 back then.

duarte_a
09-13-2012, 11:32 PM
I canīt stand to hear the usual BS from Nadal and Nole tards.

In 2010, 24 year old Nadal played 3 tournaments (Bangkok, Tokyo, Shanghai) and 12 matches. On the other hand 29 year old Federer played 4 tournaments (Shanghai, Stockholm, Basel, Paris) and 21 matches. Nadal had more than a month to recover from the Asian Swing. Federer however only had barely 2 weeks.

In the end, when Federer defeated Nadal (once again) in the WTF Final, i gladly remember that some said that Nadal was tired, when he faced an almost 30 year old that had played more matches than him and that had less time to recover to the last big tournament of the year.

So how come a younger player that plays less tournaments and less matches has so many troubles recovering from a semifinal?

Tired out the same Nadal that recovered from the AO semi final with Verdasco?

Logic doesn't compute with haters.

Roger's beautiful attacking game is more effective indoors where the bounce is more regular and lower even though the YEC surface isn't that fast anymore.

True tennis beats pushing indoors hence the reason Roger is 8-1 in sets against the king of pusherville.

Lopez
09-14-2012, 12:20 AM
The Masters (much prefer that name, WTF sucks :() is certainly underrated on these boards. It's one of the toughest tournaments to win, having to beat top players for the title. Naturally the RR format allows for some losses but that's also one of the special factors in the tournaments.

It's always maybe my favorite tournament to watch as a whole. I try to watch every match and they are very enjoyable and competitive usually.

atennisfan
09-14-2012, 12:21 AM
I love YEC.

True tennis fans would.

It's 8 top tennis players, playing each other on the get go?
orgasmic tennis!

out_grinder
09-14-2012, 12:36 AM
It's overrated. The fact of the matter is that all of the players are tired as f*ck by the time the WTF come around, and for the most part it's bad tennis. I think people make too big of a deal about it...

Yeah, Federer should be the most tired of all as he's historically usually been the finalist or winner of almost every tournament he enters, thus plays a lot more matches than the other top 8. Yet manages to school them anyway.

Mark Lenders
09-14-2012, 12:40 AM
Yeah, Federer should be the most tired of all as he's historically usually been the finalist or winner of almost every tournament he enters, thus plays a lot more matches than the other top 8. Yet manages to school them anyway.

This is a 'mystery' with a very easy solution. Federer's movement around a tennis court is completely natural and effortless, I guess that's called tennis talent, he can play at the top level without putting his own body on the line.

He doesn't need to grind himself and his opponent down to win points and matches unlike most of the current top players, which explains his longevity both in terms of each individual season and overall career.

That's why he's not tired come WTF time each year.

SheepleBuster
09-14-2012, 12:45 AM
I don't give a shit about any tournament other than slams. No sane person who has a job does. Deal with it

Whiznot
09-14-2012, 01:06 AM
The ATP point system reflects the appropriate valuation for the WTF. The WTF is the fifth biggest event of the year and has always been coveted highly by the top players. Just reaching the year-end finals is a great achievement. No mug has ever won the final event. Since the tournament's inception the history of the "Masters" has included all of the true greats.

Johnny Groove
09-14-2012, 01:10 AM
The Masters is the #5 event of each year and roughly equal with the Olympic Gold medal.

No, The Masters is not a slam, no, The Masters is not a MM event.

HKz
09-14-2012, 01:24 AM
WTF is overrated if its somewhere in the middle of season it would be awesome. But most players are dead by then and we dont see best tennis possibile. Federer being balerina that never gets tired and indoor lover gets it always easy.

I still don't fucking understand this fucking notion. Tennis season is virtually all year round, and there are plenty of long breaks during the season that players take (or at least can take) it isn't like some sports where it is actually a season of playing heavily for a few months and then playing for the big prize.. Also by your asinine thought, the championship matches for every other sport should be played in the middle of the season, that makes so much sense.

SheepleBuster
09-14-2012, 01:26 AM
Get rid of YEC and the Olympics and the Davis Cup and add a fifth slam. That's the only way to bring more excitement to tennis. Indoors slam. We need one

HKz
09-14-2012, 01:32 AM
Get rid of YEC and the Olympics and the Davis Cup and add a fifth slam. That's the only way to bring more excitement to tennis. Indoors slam. We need one

Honestly quite a stupid suggestion. It will be nearly impossible to get players to consider it a slam, similar to how Australia didn't get the same credit as the others especially pre-1990s and the debates will be unending for future players compared to previous ones when they win that 5th slam because it is obvious people will bring up that it really isn't a slam and their counts will be inflated since they would have 5 slams in a year to get a high count.

DJ Soup
09-14-2012, 05:39 AM
I don't give a shit about any tournament other than slams. No sane person who has a job does. Deal with it

ok man. ok. we get it. you're not a real tennis fan.

LeChuck
09-14-2012, 07:00 AM
It's a shame that the name of the tournament has changed so frequently over the years. First it was called the Masters, then the Tour World Championship, then the Masters Cup and now the World Tour Finals.

I have to agree that London has been a great venue for the tournament, with packed crowds throughout the week and all the RR matches. The players will certainly like the convenience of the tournament being held in Europe, following on from the European indoor tournaments at the end of regular season.

Many people still consider Madison Square Gardens in New York to be the spiritual home of this tournament. However from what I gather, unlike with the O2 arena in London, the early RR matches often didn't get great attendances there, with only the semis and the final attracting the fans in their droves.

The final of this tournament should never have been changed to best of 3 sets as that does devalue it slightly, and it's not like the players need rest ahead of another tournament the following week. However unfortunately best of 3 set finals require less time commitment from viewers, and are more suited to getting casual fans to tune in.

finishingmove
10-08-2012, 09:02 AM
Glorified exho.
The ATP tries hard to make it happen but it fails.

this is the truth

Punky
10-08-2012, 10:13 AM
for me the WTF is the next big thing after the slams b/c u dont have boring games, the top 8 fighting each other when every game can be a SF/F in a slam