Who is the best ACTIVE player without a slam? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Who is the best ACTIVE player without a slam?

The Prince
09-11-2012, 08:26 PM
Now Murray has won a slam, who do you think it is?

TigerTim
09-11-2012, 08:27 PM
Davydenko.

RinkaWaw
09-11-2012, 08:27 PM
The number 5 ranked player obviously. /Thread

Sanya
09-11-2012, 08:33 PM
David >>>>>>>> hole.

The Prince
09-11-2012, 08:34 PM
Haas for me.

GSMnadal
09-11-2012, 08:34 PM
Soderling

Certinfy
09-11-2012, 08:36 PM
Berdych.

Guy is such a beast when he's playing well...



...and there's no wind.

Poirot123
09-11-2012, 08:36 PM
Berdych. I'm convinced he'd already have one if conditions were faster.

emotion
09-11-2012, 08:37 PM
How the fucking fuck is Berdych better than Nalbandian, Soderling or Davydenko were?

Andi-M
09-11-2012, 08:44 PM
Nalbandian i think

1 WTF title
1 GS Final
SFs of all 4 GS
2 Masters tites
6 masters finals

TigerTim
09-11-2012, 08:46 PM
Davydenko

4 GS Semis
fair few masters, Indian Wells, Paris etc
victories over Nadal
WTF victory and final
Sexy hairstyle

Garson007
09-11-2012, 08:47 PM
Is Soderling still active?

TigerTim
09-11-2012, 08:48 PM
Is Soderling still active?

this. He would be my no.1, but he isn't active.

August
09-11-2012, 09:02 PM
I'd say it's currently either Tsonga or Berdych. But maybe prime Nalby, Haas, and Davy have played even better than those players.

duong
09-11-2012, 09:05 PM
over the whole carreer as it's the question, I'd say Nalby.

Johnny Groove
09-11-2012, 09:10 PM
Of all the active players who have made at least 1 slam SF, the stats say:

1. Soderling
2. Nalbandian
3. Tsonga
4. Berdych
5. Baghdatis
6. Davydenko
7. Ferrer
8. Haas
9. Youzhny
10. Monfils
11. Verdasco
12. Cilic
13. Malisse
14. Gasquet

rocketassist
09-11-2012, 09:11 PM
Of all the active players who have made at least 1 slam SF, the stats say:

1. Soderling
2. Nalbandian
3. Tsonga
4. Berdych
5. Baghdatis
6. Davydenko
7. Ferrer
8. Haas
9. Youzhny
10. Monfils
11. Verdasco
12. Cilic
13. Malisse
14. Gasquet

I love Robin but wouldn't put him ahead of Nalbandian. Nalby semis in all 4 GS, 3 ranking, two TMS to Robin's one (and beat Fedalovic in them) plus a YEC victory over Fed in 5. Davydenko is definitely higher as well.

duong
09-11-2012, 09:15 PM
Of all the active players who have made at least 1 slam SF, the stats say

I don't know which stats say that, maybe your choice is good (although I seriously doubt it as Davydenko and Ferrer are after Baghdatis :lol: it seems they are very basic about 2 slam finals first then one slam final then 4 semifinals ... :rolleyes: ), but anyway there are many stats in tennis and many ones would probably say something different :lol:

Söderling had the highest number of ranking points in 52 weeks which suits your point, but it's only one year, and Davydenko and Nalbandian have been very good for many years in a row (even though it was long ago, esp. for Nalbandian)

Sanya
09-11-2012, 09:20 PM
I'd say it's currently either Tsonga or Berdych. But maybe prime Nalby, Haas, and Davy have played even better than those players.

Maybe, just maybe? The only reason why Nalby declined in result is his fitness. He has/had everything - gamewise, could create any angle you can imagine, all-court play. Only his serve was relatively weak, but David is/was ten times a player "future GOAT" Tomic will become, for example.

It`s a pity fitness and stamina mean so much more than skills nowadays. Nastase would never be TOP-10 player in this century with his attitude, for example, and Nalby could be a king during early 70th.

duong
09-11-2012, 09:36 PM
Maybe, just maybe? The only reason why Nalby declined in result is his fitness. He has/had everything - gamewise, could create any angle you can imagine, all-court play. Only his serve was relatively weak, but David is/was ten times a player "future GOAT" Tomic will become, for example.

It`s a pity fitness and stamina mean so much more than skills nowadays. Nastase would never be TOP-10 player in this century with his attitude, for example, and Nalby could be a king during early 70th.

and people forget that Nalby stayed in the top-10 for many years in a row, Tsonga and Berdych need many more ones to reach that consistency in the top-10.

And to say that prime-Nalby is just "maybe" better than them :lol:

Looner
09-11-2012, 09:40 PM
Hard to say. Soderling has 2 finals and wins over Fedal. Nalbandian has mugged up in the past but still won a WTF in 5 sets against a crippled GOATerer. Davydenko never got that close except a few SF and I am still not sure he's a slam player. Haas has been really good but I just never considered him a threat for a number of reasons.

From these then I just have to say Soderling. He seems to be the closest to winning a slam considering his past achievements. Very close is Nalby.

Fed fordawin
09-11-2012, 09:44 PM
Andy Mug...
Wait no, Del Mugt...

wait no, they both have slams? Preposterous! :eek:;)

More seriously, Tsonga and Ferrer

selyoink
09-11-2012, 09:48 PM
Davy narrowly over Nalbandian, then I'd say Berdych, Tsonga and Haas.

Soderling has two finals but has never won anything of consequence. You could put him over Haas I suppose but none of the others in my opinion.

brithater
09-11-2012, 11:21 PM
Its Nalbandian for sure. Only guy I know of who could beat prime and in form Fedal fairly consistently. Just a great talent with major issues concerning injury. He was very close to getting into that US Open final (his best shot IMO) After that I have no idea. Maybe Berdych. Davydenko is a great player but I dont think many people ever thought he could pull out a slam.

No John Isner option?

selyoink
09-12-2012, 12:21 AM
Of all the active players who have made at least 1 slam SF, the stats say:

1. Soderling
2. Nalbandian
3. Tsonga
4. Berdych
5. Baghdatis
6. Davydenko
7. Ferrer
8. Haas
9. Youzhny
10. Monfils
11. Verdasco
12. Cilic
13. Malisse
14. Gasquet

In no world do the stats have Baghdatis ahead of Davy, Ferrer, Haas or probably even Youzhny. One fluke AO final with almost nothing else on his resume does not put him ahead of those guys. Baghdatis has zero year end top 10 finishes and a paltry 12 total weeks in the top 10. And he has a mere 4 titles, no Masters Shields and never been a finalist in one of those events either. Davy meanwhile has 5 year end top 10 finishes and 4 consecutive top 5 finishes, the 5th year he was 6th. He has 21 titles, 3 masters and 1 YEC. The comparison against Haas and Ferrer would also be lopsided though Youzhny might be interesting,

I like you Groove but to put Baghdatis ahead of those guys on the basis one single event in a career discounting everything else is asinine.

No John Isner option?

Why would there be an Isner option? He has never won anything or been beyond QF of a slam and hes only made it that far once.

guga2120
09-12-2012, 12:58 AM
I think Fat Dave and Ferrer. It's hard to seperate Jo/Berdych both talented but have issues.

Topspindoctor
09-12-2012, 01:01 AM
People voting Nalbandian :superlol:

He's overrated to the max.

Mark Lenders
09-12-2012, 01:03 AM
Nalbandian > Tsonga, Berdych, Soderling, Davydenko> Haas > Blake > Others >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ferrer (clearly the worst player never to win a Slam)

Freak3yman84
09-12-2012, 01:10 AM
Soderking. Why people would choose Mugbych is beyond me...

Matt01
09-12-2012, 01:13 AM
Söderling and/or Berdych.

Nalbandian? :no:

Edda
09-12-2012, 01:21 AM
David Ferrer

selyoink
09-12-2012, 01:29 AM
Ferrer with more votes than Davy is hilarious.

At least no one has been dumb enough to vote for Blake yet.

Topspindoctor
09-12-2012, 01:33 AM
Ferrer with more votes than Davy is hilarious.


It's not hilarious at all. David is a much better player than Baldenko ever was. Baldenko is another relic of Olderer's era, one of the worst top 5 players in existence, only topped by Blake on the mug scale.

Jimnik
09-12-2012, 01:36 AM
Close one between Wonga and Birdy. One of them will surely make a 2nd slam final.

Technically the Toad reached more slam finals than any of them but far fewer slam SFs and Masters titles.

Johnny Groove
09-12-2012, 01:38 AM
In no world do the stats have Baghdatis ahead of Davy, Ferrer, Haas or probably even Youzhny. One fluke AO final with almost nothing else on his resume does not put him ahead of those guys. Baghdatis has zero year end top 10 finishes and a paltry 12 total weeks in the top 10. And he has a mere 4 titles, no Masters Shields and never been a finalist in one of those events either. Davy meanwhile has 5 year end top 10 finishes and 4 consecutive top 5 finishes, the 5th year he was 6th. He has 21 titles, 3 masters and 1 YEC. The comparison against Haas and Ferrer would also be lopsided though Youzhny might be interesting,

I like you Groove but to put Baghdatis ahead of those guys on the basis one single event in a career discounting everything else is asinine.

My list is based strictly on slam results.

selyoink
09-12-2012, 01:46 AM
My list is based strictly on slam results.

Strictly based off best slam result really then. Baghdatis has that final and Wimbledon SF but nothing else beyond that. Only one other QF. If you want to base solely on slam results you should give a score to each round achieved at a slam and total that up. Otherwise you have a mug like Baghdatis absurdly high on the basis of a single fluke tournament. In 30 years when people are looking back at slam results they will see the name of Baghdatis and say :confused:

selyoink
09-12-2012, 01:50 AM
It's not hilarious at all. David is a much better player than Baldenko ever was. Baldenko is another relic of Olderer's era, one of the worst top 5 players in existence, only topped by Blake on the mug scale.

What title of any significance has Ferrer ever won on tour? Oh right nothing. And I actually like Pics but he is not even close to Davy. Of course your Davy enmity likely stems from that 6-5 positive H2H against Nadal.

The only thing I agree with you about is Blake. What a disgrace.

emotion
09-12-2012, 01:51 AM
Anyone picking Berdych...seriously?? He has 3 Slam semis, no WTF, no Olympic medal, one masters. What possible justification is there for putting him over Davydenko or Nalbandian or Soderling (clear top three to me with Haas probably four) Tsonga has 0 reason to be ahead of those either, behind in every respect except for leading Davy in slam finals

selyoink
09-12-2012, 02:01 AM
Anyone picking Berdych...seriously?? He has 3 Slam semis, no WTF, no Olympic medal, one masters. What possible justification is there for putting him over Davydenko or Nalbandian or Soderling (clear top three to me with Haas probably four) Tsonga has 0 reason to be ahead of those either, behind in every respect except for leading Davy in slam finals

Berdych has a slam final and one more masters than Soderling who I don't think has ever even made a Masters final. Berdych for me is third after Davy and Nalby.

Topspindoctor
09-12-2012, 02:02 AM
Berdych has a slam final and one more masters than Soderling who I don't think has ever even made a Masters final. Berdych for me is third after Davy and Nalby.

Soderling won masters title (Paris indoors). Plus Soderling has 2 slam finals over Berdych's 1.

BroTree123
09-12-2012, 02:05 AM
Soderling for sure, because he has two slam finals.

selyoink
09-12-2012, 02:05 AM
Soderling won masters title (Paris indoors). Plus Soderling has 2 slam finals over Berdych's 1.

Had no idea he had a Masters title. Dream draw with Llodra and Monfils in SF and F but that is not his fault. Soderling has two great seasons and was a mug prior to that. Who knows how different he would be viewed if not for injuries and illness last two years.

emotion
09-12-2012, 02:11 AM
Berdych has a slam final and one more masters than Soderling who I don't think has ever even made a Masters final. Berdych for me is third after Davy and Nalby.

Soderling won a masters. And made two slam finals. I'd put Tsonga and maybe Ferrer above Berdych too,but I'm just saying it's completely ridiculous to put Berdych (or Tsonga either, to a lesser degree) as 1

LastRocket
09-12-2012, 02:14 AM
1) Soderling on top with 2 slam finals, he only got beaten by better players.
2) Ferrer is one of the most consistent tennis player
3) Berdych

Pipsy
09-12-2012, 02:17 AM
Oscar Hernandez

motorhead
09-12-2012, 03:22 AM
this sort of thread pops-up every 2-3 months

cmoss
09-12-2012, 03:38 AM
Ferrer is a mug.

starluk
09-12-2012, 03:45 AM
Soderling for sure

grahampros
09-12-2012, 05:07 AM
Soderling for sure

None of them. They all had their shots and didn't deliver the goods. So it really doesn't matter.

rocketassist
09-12-2012, 05:07 AM
Ferrer is nowhere near. For all his consistency he has no slam final and no TMS.

TBkeeper
09-12-2012, 05:42 AM
in terms of career achievements
1. FitDave/Peakdenko
2. Sodaking/Godmmy Haas
.
.
.
.
.
.
(infinite) . Vulturemug (slightly biased :D )

astafjevs
09-12-2012, 06:33 AM
Berdych is the only one the list who is even halfway likely to break the upcoming Djokovic/Murray domination and win a GS in the future, so he gets my vote.

duong
09-12-2012, 08:25 AM
Can people stop just answer the question and stop just popping like sheep to say "Ferrer is a mug" ? Is there a pleasure being a sheep ?

Besides, if there was no Nadal on clay (more dominant on one surface than any other player), Ferrer would have several Masters 1000 wins.

My list is based strictly on slam results.

and only from the best result these players had in a slam, not from all of their results.

But then you could have answered another way : Tsonga and Baghdatis first as at least they won a set in a slam final :shrug:

hisham70
09-12-2012, 05:43 PM
Ferrer - 0 finalist
Tsonga - 1 finalist, def. by Nadal
Berdych - 1 time finalist, def. by Nadal
Blake - 0 finalist
Davydenko - 0 finalist
Nalbandian - 1 time finalist, def. by world no. 1 Hewitt
Tommy Haas - 0 finalist
Soderling - 2 times finalist, def. by Federer and Nadal

IMO those who reached finals are the best active players but were unfortunate to meet with the GOAT's. If I have to pick one, I'd say Berdych because he def. Federer in slams, something many players can't be able to do so.

Brick Top
09-12-2012, 05:45 PM
Soda and Haas

Burrow
09-12-2012, 05:56 PM
Had no idea he had a Masters title. Dream draw with Llodra and Monfils in SF and F but that is not his fault. Soderling has two great seasons and was a mug prior to that. Who knows how different he would be viewed if not for injuries and illness last two years.

How is playing an inspired Llodra on what was a fast, home court a dream draw? Llodra was playing out of his mind and had one match point in which he netted an easy forehand. The match was easily one of the best of the entire season and a total breath of fresh air. And beating Simon, Wawrinka and Roddick beforehand hardly strengthens your point.

rocketassist
09-12-2012, 06:00 PM
Llodra on a super fast indoors is not an easy draw.

Sanya
09-12-2012, 06:01 PM
Can people stop just answer the question and stop just popping like sheep to say "Ferrer is a mug" ? Is there a pleasure being a sheep ?

Besides, if there was no Nadal on clay (more dominant on one surface than any other player), Ferrer would have several Masters 1000 wins.



and only from the best result these players had in a slam, not from all of their results.

But then you could have answered another way : Tsonga and Baghdatis first as at least they won a set in a slam final :shrug:

Actually he would only have better chance, not more. He would have many-many losses to Fed apparently. Maybe he would have won 1-3, but I wouldn`t take it for granted, even about one title.

Andresito
09-12-2012, 06:07 PM
Nalbandian.

And it's sad that neither Haas or Davydenko ever reached a Slam final.

Ben D.
09-12-2012, 06:20 PM
Other a.k.a Gasquet.
None of the guys in the poll will ever win a slam, including Tsonga.

redshift36188
09-12-2012, 06:29 PM
Other a.k.a Gasquet.
Both Gasquet's FH and BH swings take too long, he has no chance to beat the big boys back to back.

out_grinder
09-12-2012, 06:36 PM
So weird not to see Murray in a poll like this!!

It's great.

Ben D.
09-12-2012, 06:49 PM
Both Gasquet's FH and BH swings take too long, he has no chance to beat the big boys back to back.

:unsure:

Tag
09-12-2012, 06:56 PM
nalbandian, followed by soderling

Zelyony
09-12-2012, 07:01 PM
Ferrer and Soderling

Federer in 2
09-12-2012, 08:35 PM
Career wise probably Nalbandian, no? Or Soderling...

Right now Ferrer, no question.

selyoink
09-12-2012, 09:38 PM
Llodra on a super fast indoors is not an easy draw.

Llodra in the SFs of a Masters event on any surface is a dream draw. Not saying Llodra is a bad player but he is not someone routinely getting Masters SFs.

Burrow
09-14-2012, 01:21 PM
Llodra in the SFs of a Masters event on any surface is a dream draw. Not saying Llodra is a bad player but he is not someone routinely getting Masters SFs.

What difference does that make? Things are not just black and white. Fernando Gonzalez was not someone who could routinely make Slam finals, but the tennis he played during that fortnight was special, but by your logic, he was easily beatable in the semi-finals.

abraxas21
09-14-2012, 01:33 PM
mighty kolya of course.

Slade
09-14-2012, 01:50 PM
Fatbaldian.

Roy Emerson
09-14-2012, 02:00 PM
Soderling. Look at the streaks he stopped at RG. He has two slam finals.

Ferrer has zero slam finals like Davydenko. Nalbandian has one slam final a long time ago.

Sophocles
09-14-2012, 02:03 PM
In terms of career achievements, it is clearly Nalbandian first and then probably Davydenko followed by Soderling. In terms of who is most likely to win a slam, it's either Tsonga or Berdych.

Roamed
09-14-2012, 02:07 PM
Nalbandian then Soderling then Davydenko.

Ballbasher
09-14-2012, 02:10 PM
Nalbandian. Then Soderling, Ferrer, Haas and Davydenko in that order.

Burrow
09-14-2012, 02:50 PM
Nalbandian. Then Soderling, Ferrer, Haas and Davydenko in that order.

What are your reasons for Ferrer being better than Haas and Davydenko?

TigerTim
09-14-2012, 02:55 PM
davydenko won WTF

shits on all these other guys victories aside from Fat-Dave

But Davy crushes Nadal, so its Davy

Ballbasher
09-14-2012, 03:02 PM
What are your reasons for Ferrer being better than Haas and Davydenko?

Not Davydenko. Actually Davydenko is only behind Nalbandian. I completely forgot about his WTF win when I wrote this.

Ferrer is better than Haas imo because he has been much more consistent through the years.

duong
09-14-2012, 03:08 PM
My order (based on different factors) : Nalbandian then Söderling/Davydenko/Ferrer then Haas/Berdych/Tsonga

By the way, I know people think that Ferrer is a king against lowest ranked player and nothing against best ranked players but actually I was surprised when I realised that my H2H file with 36 of the best players of the last decade said the opposite : Ferrer lacks wins in MS1000 tournaments comparing to the others (he couldn't win MS1000 tournaments in a downgraded Bercy like Söderling, Tsonga or Berdych ;), had to go with Nadal on clay) but actually has won a higher percentage of matches against highest ranked players than all of them :lol:

Only the top-4 and Roddick have better stats than him, Del Po is pretty equal with him.

(wins, losses, %wins among all of those players)

Federer 316 93 77%
Nadal 246 79 76%
Djokovic 181 89 67%
Murray 145 79 65%
Roddick 141 112 56%
Del Potro 83 67 55%
Ferrer 136 111 55%
Söderling 95 88 52%
Gonzalez 87 85 51%
Hewitt 83 84 50%
Nalbandian 93 100 48%
Ljubicic 88 95 48%
Davydenko 99 111 47%
Tsonga 65 74 47%
Haas 68 78 47%
Safin 63 75 46%
Berdych 99 122 45%
Ferrero 68 87 44%
Raonic 16 21 43%
Isner 38 50 43%
Monfils 53 70 43%
Wawrinka 67 92 42%
Youzhny 73 105 41%
Blake 62 93 40%
Dolgopolov 26 41 39%
Gasquet 59 96 38%
Baghdatis 50 80 38%
Verdasco 71 116 38%
Cilic 44 76 37%
Simon 49 88 36%
Robredo 57 104 35%
Almagro 46 90 34%
Nishikori 18 35 34%
Querrey 27 71 28%
Tomic 8 23 26%
Gulbis 18 58 24%

romismak
09-14-2012, 03:09 PM
What does it means BEST? best in current form?, best at their peak or who achieved most? i would say criteria who achieved most-best career - so far it is clearly Nalbandian, he won WTF - TMC before but it is the same tournament with another name - 5th most important tennis tournament, he came down from 0-2sets vs Federer in F match, also his career high ranking is much better than other guys on this list. So Nalbandian is it, howewer Davydenko is pretty close with his WTF 2009 too, but Davydenko is missing slam F

Nalbandian - 1st than Davydenko 2nd, other guys won´t give ranking

O.k i just don´t get this voting thing, DAvydenko is clearly underrated at this forum why he has less votes than all guys besides Blake? Davydenko has WTF title, where he defeated Roger,Rafa, and Delpo in 2009, has higher career highest ranking than most guys on this list - he was No.3

Besides Nalbandian there is no way anybody on this list can be higher than Davydenko. - if we are speaking career wise-career achievements.

Burrow
09-14-2012, 03:13 PM
Not Davydenko. Actually Davydenko is only behind Nalbandian. I completely forgot about his WTF win when I wrote this.

Ferrer is better than Haas imo because he has been much more consistent through the years.

Even without his World Tour Finals win, he's leaps and bounds above Ferrer.

And about Haas, well, that's fair enough, but that's only because of the injuries Haas sustained. At least Haas was able to sneak in a Masters Series.

duong
09-14-2012, 03:20 PM
At least Haas was able to sneak in a Masters Series.

Stuttgart indoors 2001 defeated Hewitt and Henman, OK it was good but nothing like facing Nadal on clay.

I have to say that Haas has been too much of a fashion in this forum for a few months for this to be realistic imo.

Davydenko is not on fashion anymore hence the result of the poll, would have been completely different after WTF 2009.

rocketassist
09-14-2012, 03:23 PM
Stuttgart indoors 2001 defeated Hewitt and Henman, OK it was good but nothing like facing Nadal on clay.

Ferrer's had his chances to win TMSs- Hamburg 06 that Boredo won (disaster for tennis), Shanghai last year had a piss weak field, Paris has had a few top player pullouts and he's got the perfect game for IW and Miami. No excuses, Haasi got it done and Ferrer hasn't. Plus back then you had to win 6 matches and not 5.

Ferrer's done OK but he hasn't won anything big. Nothing Masters level or above whereas the other guys have.

duong
09-14-2012, 03:32 PM
Ferrer's had his chances to win TMSs- Hamburg 06 that Boredo won (disaster for tennis), Shanghai last year had a piss weak field, Paris has had a few top player pullouts and he's got the perfect game for IW and Miami. No excuses, Haasi got it done and Ferrer hasn't. Plus back then you had to win 6 matches and not 5.

Ferrer's done OK but he hasn't won anything big. Nothing Masters level or above whereas the other guys have.

they all have their chances, some have a chance to do it when they have a good opportunity, some don't, but judging players on one win one day looks stupid to me.

I mean come on we can do better, we don't need to be so short-sighted and judge on such simple stats !

Carretero also has a MS1000 win.

Besides, Ferrer is at his best now with the current top-4, he was not at his best when he met Robredo in Hamburg.

Haas was at his best in Hewitt's time.

I mean it's different :shrug:

romismak
09-14-2012, 03:33 PM
Career highest ranking - No.2- Haas
No.3 - Davydenko, Nalbandian
No.4 - Soderling,Ferrer,Blake
No.5-Tsonga
No.6 Berdych

Biggest title besides slam WTF - Davydenko and Nalbandian
WTF final - Tsonga, Ferrer,Blake and Davydenko all 1x

Masters 1000- Davydenko-3x,Nalbandian2x, Soderling,Berdych,Tsonga,Haas 1x

Slam F- Soderling 2x, Nalbandian-1x,Tsonga 1x, Berdych 1x,

Slam SF-Davydenko-4x,Nalbandian4x,,Haas 4x,Ferrer 4x, Tsonga3x, Berdych2x

This are most important criterias Slam F, slam SF, WTF title-F and highest career ranking, clearly Nalbandian and Davydenko are better than rest- besides Haas highest ranking - No.3, both have WTF title. Nalbandian has slam F + most SF another 4, together 5x SF at least-more than others.Davydenko with 3 Masters 1000 titles is best on the list.

So how i wrote in my 1st post here - Nalbandian No.1, Davydenko No.2, others are not even close for discussion here.

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
09-14-2012, 03:35 PM
on talent alone- nalbandian

rocketassist
09-14-2012, 03:35 PM
they all have their chances, some have a chance to do it when they have a good opportunity, some don't, but judging players on one win one day looks stupid to me.

Carretero also has a MS1000 win.

Haas's highest ranking is no 2 also whereas Ferrer's is 4. Injury curtailed Haasi at times in his career but don't dismiss Hewitt and Henman, they were great indoor players.

And Carretero and Portas were flash in the pan TMS champions I agree, with no consistency of ranking. But Haas beats Ferrer on achievements and ranking.

duong
09-14-2012, 03:42 PM
Another stat for those who are interested : the highest number of ATP points (got in the last 52 weeks, that means) reached by best players since 2000, keeping the previous ranking system (2000-2008).

Between brackets, the date and their ranking at that moment.

All those who got at least 2000 points are presumably here.

I like this stat because it depends less on the competitors than the highest ranking (still depends on it though).

For instance, Roddick got more ATP ranking points in mid-2004 than in the end of 2003 despite Fed's competition.

Davydenko had his highest number of points in the beginning of 2010 when he was ranked at number 6 (after his win in Shanghai and the WTF), not at his best of number 3, same for Ferrer his best is now, not at his best of number 4.

And you can see how many points Haas had when he was number 2 or 3, less than when Ferrer is number 5 or Berdych number 6 (and please understand that I re-calculate Ferrer or Berdych's points under the previous ranking system, it's not their number of points with the new ranking system).

Only speaks about what players did in 52 weeks though, doesn't say anything about their longevity ...

Federer 8370 (20.11.06) Nadal 7845 (11.05.09) Djokovic 7785 (12.09.11) Murray 5505 (24.08.09) Agassi 5208 (03.04.00) Hewitt 5205 (12.08.02) Roddick 5185 (02.08.04, n2)
Kuerten 4750 (10.09.01) Ferrero 4570 (20.10.03) Safin 4300 (03.05.01) Del Potro 3845 (11.01.10, n4) Coria 3770 (5.07.04, n3) Söderling 3760 (21.02.11, n4)
Sampras 3739 (23.10.00, n1) Norman 3610 (17.07.00, n2) Ferrer 3580 (10.09.12, n5) Davydenko 3525 (22.03.10, n6) Tsonga 3500 (06.08.12, n6)
Nalbandian 3360 (12.06.06, n3) Ljubicic 3315 (21.08.06, n3) Schuettler 3205 (17.11.03, n6) Berdych 3165 (10.09.12, n6) Moya 3160 (09.06.03, n4) Kafelnikov 3145 (19.11.01; n4)
Rafter 3065 (10.09.01, n4) Haas 3030 (19.08.02, n3) Grosjean 2865 (19.11.01, n6) Henman 2825 (13.09.04, n4) Gonzalez 2810 (21.05.07, n5) Enqvist 2693 (11.09.00, n6)
Robredo 2645 (02.04.07, n6) Blake 2605 (29.01.07, n6) Verdasco 2560 (03.05.10, n9) Corretja 2475 (04.12.00, n8) Gaudio 2440 (16.05.05, n6) Youzhny 2440 (04.10.10, n8)
Kiefer 2435 (21.02.00, n4) Costa 2385 (22.07.02, n6) Simon 2375 (06.07.09, n7) T Johansson 2365 (22.04.02, n8) Novak 2355 (21.10.02, n5) Tipsarevic 2315 (13.08.12, n8)
Pioline 2307 (12.06.00, n6) Gasquet 2220 (09.07.07, n7) Monfils 2150 (22.08.11, n7) Melzer 2135 (25.04.11, n8) Cilic 2135 (19.04.10, n11) Baghdatis 2111 (25.09.06, n8)
Fish 2110 (28.11.11, n8) Canas 2075 (13.06.05, n8) Ancic 2075 (05.02.07, n9) Clement 2025 (06.08.01, n11)

Burrow
09-14-2012, 03:54 PM
Stuttgart indoors 2001 defeated Hewitt and Henman, OK it was good but nothing like facing Nadal on clay.

I have to say that Haas has been too much of a fashion in this forum for a few months for this to be realistic imo.

Davydenko is not on fashion anymore hence the result of the poll, would have been completely different after WTF 2009.

You don't need to defeat Nadal on clay to win a Masters Series. And his win in Stuttgart was hardly ok. He had difficult matches right from the beginning and hammered an absolutely on fire Mirnyi in the final.

duong
09-14-2012, 03:59 PM
You don't need to defeat Nadal on clay to win a Masters Series.

can ayone ignore that clay is Ferrer's best surface contrary to the other players talked about in this thread ?

even though on hardcourts he made the WTF final, the final in Shanghai and 3 grand slam semifinals.

Except Robredo's one chance in a devaluated Hamburg, no other one than Nadal, Fed and Djokovic has won a MS1000 on clay since 2004 !!

I mean I'm not a clayfan but it's still a valuable surface of tennis :shrug:

Without clay, Kuerten would be a mug in tennis history, much much worse than Ferrer.

rocketassist
09-14-2012, 04:03 PM
can ayone ignore that clay is Ferrer's best surface contrary to the other players talked about in this thread ?

even though on hardcourts he made the WTF final, the final in Shanghai and 3 grand slam semifinals.

Except Robredo's one chance in a devaluated Hamburg, no other one than Nadal, Fed and Djokovic has won a MS1000 on clay since 2004 !!

I mean I'm not a clayfan but it's still a valuable surface of tennis :shrug:

It is but he's had chances on all of the Masters tournaments to get one, including some weakened fields (Shanghai last year) and still couldn't get it done.

romismak
09-14-2012, 04:11 PM
It is but he's had chances on all of the Masters tournaments to get one, including some weakened fields (Shanghai last year) and still couldn't get it done.

So what Ferrer has 0 Masters titles, it is tough to win them i think. And Shanghai 2011 ? why he should get it there? Murray was by far biggest favorite there even before 1st match was played and in F Murray - Ferrer it was clear who is going to win. Ferrer is favorit on clay vs Andy but defnitely not on grass and any kind of HC - slow, fast outdoor HC or indoors.

rocketassist
09-14-2012, 04:13 PM
So what Ferrer has 0 Masters titles, it is tough to win them i think. And Shanghai 2011 ? why he should get it there? Murray was by far biggest favorite there even before 1st match was played and in F Murray - Ferrer it was clear who is going to win. Ferrer is favorit on clay vs Andy but defnitely not on grass and any kind of HC - slow, fast outdoor HC or indoors.

The point I'm making is Haas has won one and has a better high ranking and therefore his career is better than Ferrer's.

Out of the guys on the list only Blake's career is below Ferrer's I'd say.

duong
09-14-2012, 04:14 PM
The point I'm making is Haas has won one and has a better high ranking and therefore his career is better than Ferrer's.

I perfectly understand your point if you think it's hard to understand, but my opinion is that judging players because one has one 1 MS1000 tournament and the other one has lost his final means judging one player's carreer on one match, and sorry this is completely retarded for me :shrug:

Same as it was stupid imo to say that Murray was not as good as Del Potro because he hadn't won a slam :p

Do we need to be so short-sighted rather than use our intelligence and look at the broader picture ?

Yes, Ferrer lost that Shanghai final to a mug called Murray, so weak field :rolleyes:

Burrow
09-14-2012, 04:30 PM
can ayone ignore that clay is Ferrer's best surface contrary to the other players talked about in this thread ?

even though on hardcourts he made the WTF final, the final in Shanghai and 3 grand slam semifinals.

Except Robredo's one chance in a devaluated Hamburg, no other one than Nadal, Fed and Djokovic has won a MS1000 on clay since 2004 !!

I mean I'm not a clayfan but it's still a valuable surface of tennis :shrug:

Without clay, Kuerten would be a mug in tennis history, much much worse than Ferrer.

:lol: Who's trying to say that clay is not of value?

How much of Ferrer's clay court success is brought on by having a weak clay court field?

TigerTim
09-14-2012, 04:35 PM
clay court field sucks

Nadal-Djokovic-Ferrer-Federer

that is it.

Burrow
09-14-2012, 04:37 PM
I perfectly understand your point if you think it's hard to understand, but my opinion is that judging players because one has one 1 MS1000 tournament and the other one has lost his final means judging one player's carreer on one match, and sorry this is completely retarded for me :shrug:

Same as it was stupid imo to say that Murray was not as good as Del Potro because he hadn't won a slam :p

Do we need to be so short-sighted rather than use our intelligence and look at the broader picture ?

Yes, Ferrer lost that Shanghai final to a mug called Murray, so weak field :rolleyes:

So to say Ferrer is better than Haas just because he has been consistent the last couple of years on his favourite surface doesn't mean he's the better player.

Has Ferrer had to deal with 4 shoulder surgeries, a hip surgery, an ankle surgery and an elbow surgery?

Pretty sure if Haas didn't have to contend with all of this, he would have been in the serious running for a Grand Slam, easily.

duong
09-14-2012, 05:00 PM
So to say Ferrer is better than Haas just because he has been consistent the last couple of years on his favourite surface doesn't mean he's the better player.

Has Ferrer had to deal with 4 shoulder surgeries, a hip surgery, an ankle surgery and an elbow surgery?

Pretty sure if Haas didn't have to contend with all of this, he would have been in the serious running for a
Grand Slam, easily.

There are many reasons, not just that :shrug:

It's tough to guess what Haas would have done without injuries.

anyway, I don't think you have a problem in rating Haas behind Davydenko or Söderling then it's just clear that the problem is not our respective judgment of Haas but the one of Ferrer.

It's unbelievable for me how so many people in this forum are so tensed to downgrade Ferrer (who by the way doesn't care : he's so modest he would nearly agree with those :lol: )

I like Ferrer but I'm not a fan, and I'm not a fan of clay as I said.

And I just say what I saw : I was really genuinely surprised when I realised that Ferrer had good results against high-ranked players actually, and that the legend that he's consistent against lower-ranked players is ... a legend.

He's had plenty of wins against lower-ranked players, esp. because when he's not physically well, and it happens indeed, he lost.

I also can say that I was genuinely impressed by his level against Nadal in Barcelona this year : in my eyes it was Djokovic-esque and full of great shots :shrug:
In my eyes, yes Davydenko is better than Ferrer but in results, sorry, it's not that obvious.

And about Haas, Haas can only be great if you create a brand new player who would never have been injured.

Haas has never been qualified to the WTF for instance.

I gave him a bonus considering the circumstances but I think many people in this forum just give him too much bonus because he's fashionable and likable in this forum contrary to Ferrer, because disliking and despising Ferrer just has become "cool" in this forum :shrug:

You despise that "he has just been consistent" for one year when he reached 2 slam semifinals ?

Do you know how many players outside the top-4 have played a slam semifinal in last 2 years ?

3 : Ferrer (3 ones !), Tsonga (2 ones) and Berdych (1).

What is called consistency for Ferrer is called dramatic gigantic performances for Tsonga.

why ? because it's like that : Ferrer can be nothing else than consistent in the eyes of some here. Nothing else whatever he does.

Sanya
09-14-2012, 05:08 PM
In my eyes, yes Davydenko is better than Ferrer but in results, sorry, it's not that obvious.


What makes it hard for you to admit it (Kolya > David) in their results too? Really can`t understand, Davy has so much more than Ferrer that no discussion here, IMO. :shrug:

Jimnik
09-14-2012, 05:11 PM
Bandian is the only one who made every slam SF. Him and Denko are the only ones with a TMC (or WTF) title.

But Tsonga and Berdych still have time. I expect both to make another slam final and Berdy to reach all four slam SFs (only needs AO).

Burrow
09-14-2012, 06:14 PM
There are many reasons, not just that :shrug:

It's tough to guess what Haas would have done without injuries.

anyway, I don't think you have a problem in rating Haas behind Davydenko or Söderling then it's just clear that the problem is not our respective judgment of Haas but the one of Ferrer.

It's unbelievable for me how so many people in this forum are so tensed to downgrade Ferrer (who by the way doesn't care : he's so modest he would nearly agree with those :lol: )

I like Ferrer but I'm not a fan, and I'm not a fan of clay as I said.

And I just say what I saw : I was really genuinely surprised when I realised that Ferrer had good results against high-ranked players actually, and that the legend that he's consistent against lower-ranked players is ... a legend.

He's had plenty of wins against lower-ranked players, esp. because when he's not physically well, and it happens indeed, he lost.

I also can say that I was genuinely impressed by his level against Nadal in Barcelona this year : in my eyes it was Djokovic-esque and full of great shots :shrug:
In my eyes, yes Davydenko is better than Ferrer but in results, sorry, it's not that obvious.

And about Haas, Haas can only be great if you create a brand new player who would never have been injured.

Haas has never been qualified to the WTF for instance.

I gave him a bonus considering the circumstances but I think many people in this forum just give him too much bonus because he's fashionable and likable in this forum contrary to Ferrer, because disliking and despising Ferrer just has become "cool" in this forum :shrug:

You despise that "he has just been consistent" for one year when he reached 2 slam semifinals ?

Do you know how many players outside the top-4 have played a slam semifinal in last 2 years ?

3 : Ferrer (3 ones !), Tsonga (2 ones) and Berdych (1).

What is called consistency for Ferrer is called dramatic gigantic performances for Tsonga.

why ? because it's like that : Ferrer can be nothing else than consistent in the eyes of some here. Nothing else whatever he does.

I don't know why you're addressing me as someone who falls into this category of disliking Ferrer. I don't like him nor dislike him.

And of the bolded: I don't believe you can rate players who have had very different circumstances in their career. You can compare players who have not had injury problems, in relation to the era in which they play in. It's difficult to compare Haas to any of the players on the list because he has had far, far more injury problems than any of them. That's why I wouldn't rate him higher nor lower than those who have achieved more than him. However, despite all of these injury problems, to me, Haas has still managed to have a comparable career to Ferrer and for me, that already says enough.