Will attacking tennis die with Federer? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Will attacking tennis die with Federer?

jerrard
09-11-2012, 06:27 PM
He is the only true top player who always plays attacking tennis. As we saw in yesterday's US Open final, both Djokovic and Murray are pushers. Nadal is obviously the GOAT pusher. After Federer retires who could step up to take his place? Or we have to deal with pushers for next decade or so.

caisenma
09-11-2012, 06:33 PM
oh, this will go down well.

Slice Winner
09-11-2012, 06:36 PM
Looks like most juniors are trying to play Djokovic style.
At least Saville attacks a bit.

This year, 7/8 of the players in slam finals were (at least mostly) defensive players. The exception being Federer.
There are plenty of attacking players out there, but with the slow courts, they don't make slam finals (exceptions being Berdych, Soderling, Tsonga, del Po).

Sanya
09-11-2012, 06:37 PM
You could miss the word "attacking" and answer still would be the same. :p Actually I think that later or sooner we will see quick courts once again and next wave of tops will be more attack prone.

caisenma
09-11-2012, 06:42 PM
was a bit gutted to see at my local club, young kids who had a single-handed backhand being told to stop and learn how to use two hands.

meanwhile, i'd say a good 90 per cent of those 35 and up use a single backhand. it annoys me. if a kid finds it more natural to use one arm, then USE IT.

but alas, robotic tennis is being taught from the ground up, i'm afraid. at least here in canada, anyway.

Nr 1 Fan
09-11-2012, 06:44 PM
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha :lol:

That's all.

Shinoj
09-11-2012, 06:45 PM
Berdych,Del Potro,Tsonga all play attacking Tennis but they lack the mental consistency that Federer has. Also Djokovic has a real good Attacking Style but somehow he ends up pushing half the time these days. Its frustrating to see that because his attacking Play is as good as anyone and is quite fascinating to see.

Perhaps he feels its necessary to Push and play 4 5 Hours in order to win it? It looks like a Mental thing more than anything.

brithater
09-11-2012, 06:46 PM
I think the sports popularity in general will probably die off quite a bit when Federer leaves the game. Its already in bad shape right now in the US. Kids just dont want to get into sports like tennis anymore. Too much work and sacrifice involved. Its also become increasingly expensive for most people with the way the economy bboth in the US and abroad. Organizations like the USTA are not helping things either. If anything just the opposite.

I guess thats a little of topic though. To answer your question I would say gutsy offensive tennis in general is pretty much dead right now anyways. Even big servers dont play gutsy anymore. It more of a serve and retreat strategy. Honestly....Fed is not really that offensive either outside of fast indoor hardcourts. The only really offensive players I have seen in the last few years have been Berdych and Soderling.

I honeslty think next year the US Open will speed up the courts. Federer can probably compete at the top of the game for another 3 or four years if the courts speed up. Wimbledon is FUBAR right now. The grass mixture really screwed up the whole event. Lendle would have won wimbledon if he played on this new grass.

Jverweij
09-11-2012, 06:49 PM
sigh. Is Federer the official life-support of attacking tennis now? One just has to look at the French to know this is an exaggeration.
- Paire, Tsonga, Chardy, Mannarino, Mahut, Llodra

Don't get me wrong, I get your point.. defensive skills are valued more than offensive skills right now.

Johnny Groove
09-11-2012, 07:06 PM
No, there will be at least one slam winner in a few years to play an attacking game.

I guarantee you.

nazzac
09-11-2012, 07:14 PM
There are still offensive minded players. Tsonga, Berdych, Del Potro are primarily offensive. I agree though that defensive tennis seems the way to go for most players.

Serverer
09-11-2012, 07:34 PM
Berdych,Del Potro,Tsonga all play attacking Tennis but they lack the mental consistency that Federer has. Also Djokovic has a real good Attacking Style but somehow he ends up pushing half the time these days. Its frustrating to see that because his attacking Play is as good as anyone and is quite fascinating to see.

Perhaps he feels its necessary to Push and play 4 5 Hours in order to win it? It looks like a Mental thing more than anything.

It doesnt have anything to do with mental consistency. They dont have the stamina to beat the marathon runners and they dont have the talent to beat Federer

Lleyton_
09-11-2012, 07:42 PM
Tennis in general will die.

Nr 1 Fan
09-11-2012, 07:44 PM
Everyone who doesn't go for a DIRECT winner on each point or rushes the net on each possible occasion is a defensive player according to MTF, I am sick of it.

Djokovic and Ferrer for example are agressive baseliners, but they construct their points. That is also attacking tennis.

Certinfy
09-11-2012, 07:47 PM
It doesnt have anything to do with mental consistency. They dont have the stamina to beat the marathon runners and they dont have the talent to beat Federer
Berdych's H2H vs Federer is 4-3 since 2010 vs Federer. :facepalm:

Poirot123
09-11-2012, 07:56 PM
Federer was the reason I started watching tennis. He was so entertaining to watch. At his best, he's still the best player on the planet. When he does retire, tennis just won't be the same anymore. Unless some young players emerge, and there is no sign of that at the moment, then tennis will suffer immensely.

As for attacking players - put it this way, if conditions were faster, Berdych would be a slam winner by now, Del Potro would have multiple slams, and Tsonga would've been in more finals at the minimum. These guys would blow Djokovic, Murray and Nadal off the court in fast conditions. In slow conditions they have to go for the lines - very hard to do over 3 sets consistently. Hence their patchy results.

The US Open has to be sped back up to 2009 levels.

RinkaWaw
09-11-2012, 08:04 PM
So what if it does, deal with it. There will be some attacking player coming up ready to hit, that's how it works.

Ichiban1920
09-11-2012, 08:09 PM
As long as the ATP continue to slow courts and allow pushers and moonballers like Mugray, Nadull and Djokovic to continue to win slams, there will be no attacking tennis.

ATP caters to mug pushers/moonballers and has destroyed any semblance of offensive tennis.

Mercury
09-11-2012, 08:12 PM
The sport will die after Fed. No real interesting matches at the top level... Delpo will pretty much be the only player left worth watching till the new generation or the one after, or the one after that produces some quality attacking tennis players (and maybe quicker courts will happen when were all 60 years old) this sport will be a snoozing grind fest with 5 hour finals that feature 5% interesting points.

You may call me a Fed tard but being a fan the last 2 years I don't like where the top of the sport is at besides Fed.

redshift36188
09-11-2012, 08:21 PM
Lol at people calling DelPo an attacking player, he is a power pusher.


With the homogenisation of the courts, the most successfull style is Nole's which is controlled aggression. Most kids will learn around this style, and we might have a very homogeneised set of players in the future. Exceptions will probably be frenchies, which have a good school of creative tennis, and few others here and there.

TigerTim
09-11-2012, 08:22 PM
its funny that people regard Federer as super agressive :lol:

sad that 12 years ago he would just be a baseliner.

RinkaWaw
09-11-2012, 08:22 PM
The sport will die after Fed. No real interesting matches at the top level... Delpo will pretty much be the only player left worth watching till the new generation or the one after, or the one after that produces some quality attacking tennis players (and maybe quicker courts will happen when were all 60 years old) this sport will be a snoozing grind fest with 5 hour finals that feature 5% interesting points.

You may call me a Fed tard but being a fan the last 2 years I don't like where the top of the sport is at besides Fed.

The sport of tennis never dies. I would have thought someone of your age knows the history of Tennis.

Serverer
09-11-2012, 08:25 PM
Lol at people calling DelPo an attacking player, he is a power pusher.


With the homogenisation of the courts, the most successfull style is Nole's which is controlled aggression. Most kids will learn around this style, and we might have a very homogeneised set of players in the future. Exceptions will probably be frenchies, which have a good school of creative tennis, and few others here and there.

His style didnt work that great before he found out about the gluten and the eggpod. He only became the most successful after he got the physique to be able to outlast everyone.

luie
09-11-2012, 08:28 PM
its funny that people regard Federer as super agressive :lol:

sad that 12 years ago he would just be a baseliner.

This federer 12 years ago would be a baseliner.
However federer a decade ago won Wimby predominatantly 03. Prior to that he attacked the net a lot .

TigerTim
09-11-2012, 08:37 PM
This federer 12 years ago would be a baseliner.
However federer a decade ago won Wimby predominatantly 03. Prior to that he attacked the net a lot .

yes, true, back then he was an very aggressive baseliner. Not quite serve volley, but he sure utilized it.

drazyc
09-11-2012, 09:11 PM
Everyone who doesn't go for a DIRECT winner on each point or rushes the net on each possible occasion is a defensive player according to MTF, I am sick of it.

Djokovic and Ferrer for example are agressive baseliners, but they construct their points. That is also attacking tennis.

I would not say that Djokovic and Ferrer are that good point constructors. Djokovic is just able to neutralize all his opponents and pull them back and wait for a short ball or an opportunity to counterattack. He doesn't construct a point from start to finish, like Federer does. Murray and Tsonga are actually more typical point constructors IMO, but Murray has a too defensive mindset overall.

I am a little bit worried about the position of tennis after Federer retires. We have some amazing baseliners in Djokovic, Murray and Nadal, and they produce some amazing tennis matches. But I don't want to have every grand slam final like yesterday, containing 5 hours with running from the baseline. It will get too monotone and predictable. Looking at the youngsters I don't see many talented, attacking players. Dimitrov is the obvious candidate, but he doesn't seem to have the right mindset and is also injury prone. I like Goffin though. But I think his serve is too weak to be a top player.

We have Dolgopolov and Nishikori from almost the same generation, and neither of them are defensive players. But the consistency is simply not there from Dolgopolov, and Nishikori does maybe not have the weapons necessary.

After all I don't think all the young players try to play like Murray and Djokovic, which is a good thing. But I really hope that some of the young guys with a different kind of tennis can challenge Djokovic, Murray and Nadal soon. It will make the whole tour more exciting.

TBkeeper
09-12-2012, 05:49 AM
no i will come and save tennis in Davy/Nalbandian style

HKz
09-12-2012, 06:05 AM
The fact that people associate attacking tennis with Federer is a bit silly to begin with. Yes, Federer has fantastic offensive skills and he can hit the ball pretty much as hard as anyone out there, but his strategy from the very beginning has always been passive aggressive tennis. Keep his error count low, play lower percentage shots when he actually has the opportunity, keep rallies neutral until he picks the right ball, etc. Berdych and Soderling play a much more offensive game. They definitely try to pound the ball into oblivion more often.

Regardless, my "guess" to the general question, is no it won't die, there will be plenty others even if more defensive styled players are favored.. Just like great volleyers, some players will just practice offensive tennis more than others and be able to take such style into success.

finishingmove
09-12-2012, 06:57 AM
Federer is nothing special. Even his slam count is in the same league as Sampras' and not in another order of magnitude.

If you prefer to hug your Federer-bear and take interest in Federer's personal life instead of tennis after he retires, suit yourself.

What a ridiculous claim to make though.

Greatness
09-12-2012, 07:40 AM
Attacking tennis is alive and well, it's just that today, with the superior athletes like Novak and Nadal, you need to hit more than 1 winner in a rally in order to win the point. Novak beat Federer several times by playing attacking tennis from the baseline.

The courts of today prevent serve bots and ball-bashers from winning slams or even making slam finals unless they're extremely lucky.

Also, with the racket technology of today, you don't need to apply a lot of energy to generate pace on the ball. Therefore, the excuses of the courts being too slow doesn't hold up; players can hit with more pace and find better angles if they want to shorten the point.

Looner
09-12-2012, 07:42 AM
Federer is nothing special. Even his slam count is in the same league as Sampras' and not in another order of magnitude.

If you prefer to hug your Federer-bear and take interest in Federer's personal life instead of tennis after he retires, suit yourself.

What a ridiculous claim to make though.

Sigworthy comment. Then again, Djokovic is in the same slam league as Murray :shrug:.

Jimnik
09-12-2012, 07:46 AM
Will attacking Federer die with tennis?

tribalfusion
09-12-2012, 08:09 AM
Will Federer's attackers die with tetanus?

NID
09-12-2012, 08:12 AM
Everyone will die once Federer retires.

Chris Kuerten
09-12-2012, 08:26 AM
Dolgopolov will take his place.

EliSter
09-12-2012, 08:33 AM
Yes world will fail w.o our mighty Jesus and saviour Olderer retiring.

Mercury
09-12-2012, 08:34 AM
The sport of tennis never dies. I would have thought someone of your age knows the history of Tennis.
Obviously I meant attacking tennis as the thread is titled. You can't really believe I thought tennis would simply stop existing after Fed...

venky91
09-12-2012, 08:37 AM
Sigworthy comment. Then again, Djokovic is in the same slam league as Murray :shrug:.

BOOM

Sophitia36
09-12-2012, 08:49 AM
Don't get me wrong, I get your point.. defensive skills are valued more than offensive skills right now.

Sure, that's why on MTF the biggest insult ever is "pusher" (oh no, sorry, it's "WTA player" or "girl", but "pusher" comes right after) and whenever you want to say a player sucks you just call him a "pusher" and need no more arguments :rolleyes:
Clearly defensive tennis is more valued!
On the contrary, people tend to think that the only kind of valuable tennis is attacking tennis.

(Or did you mean it's more valued in tennis academies, as in, coaches only teach young players that kind of tennis?)

Everyone who doesn't go for a DIRECT winner on each point or rushes the net on each possible occasion is a defensive player according to MTF, I am sick of it.

Djokovic and Ferrer for example are agressive baseliners, but they construct their points. That is also attacking tennis.

Thank you.

Sunset of Age
09-12-2012, 09:36 AM
Dolgopolov will take his place.

I wouldn't complain about that if it were to come true. :)

Mark Lenders
09-12-2012, 09:54 AM
Federer isn't that attacking a player, but I guess he looks like the boldest player on the planet compared to the grinders at the top of the game.

The sport will die after Fed. No real interesting matches at the top level... Delpo will pretty much be the only player left worth watching till the new generation or the one after, or the one after that produces some quality attacking tennis players (and maybe quicker courts will happen when were all 60 years old) this sport will be a snoozing grind fest with 5 hour finals that feature 5% interesting points.

You may call me a Fed tard but being a fan the last 2 years I don't like where the top of the sport is at besides Fed.

Agree with this. Delpo is the only real hope for a top player who's not a grinder in the next few years, but I wouldn't put any money on his body holding up; not only is he extremely injury prone, the slow hardcourts only make it harder on his body.

I think Djokovic is great to watch too, unless he's playing Nadal or Murray that is. Unfortunately we're headed to more finals like yesterday's and AO's, don't think the courts will be sped up anytime soon. For some obscure reason, pushathons/grindathons seem to considered good viewing.

Looner
09-12-2012, 10:01 AM
I think attacking tennis won't die but the success of attacking tennis will comparably to the other style(s).

Mark Lenders
09-12-2012, 10:05 AM
I think attacking tennis won't die but the success of attacking tennis will comparably to the other style(s).

Maybe people will get bored of grindathons at the tail end of Slams and at least the hardcourts will be sped up? Gotta have hope.

Watch Nadal, Djokovic and Murray literally push each other to the limit for even longer and in even more physically brutal fashion than this year in Melbourne in January. Make it a 6 hour semi and 8 hour final this time :zzz:

Pratik
09-12-2012, 10:14 AM
No.

/thread

Evitman
09-12-2012, 10:15 AM
Will tennis die by keeping attacking Federer?

Tenn1sAdd1ct
09-12-2012, 10:29 AM
I think Djokovic is great to watch too, unless he's playing Nadal or Murray that is.

I agree with this. Itīs just that these three are such unbevelivably good defenders, it makes them all look like pushers when they play against each other.

I have nothing against longer matches/rallies if only they can cope with it physically. Alternative with more attacking players is I quess just more service winners and 3 sec. rallies. How is that better viewing? :scratch:

Mark Lenders
09-12-2012, 10:49 AM
I agree with this. Itīs just that these three are such unbevelivably good defenders, it makes them all look like pushers when they play against each other.

I have nothing against longer matches/rallies if only they can cope with it physically. Alternative with more attacking players is I quess just more service winners and 3 sec. rallies. How is that better viewing? :scratch:

Just speed up the courts and this won't be a problem anymore.

I don't think you got me, I also don't want every point to be a service winner or a three shot rally, that'd be just as boring. What I want is variety, with different surfaces favoring different styles instead of grinding and pushing being favored all year long, so the most complete/adaptable players can thrive and not the ones who excel at one specific aspect of the game (endurance, stamina, movement, etc...).

Grindathons should be reserved for claycourts; on HC, not only are they boring to watch but they will shorten the careers of these guys and probably make them suffer after retirement as the surface isn't kind on the knees and joints at all.

Tenn1sAdd1ct
09-12-2012, 11:03 AM
Just speed up the courts and this won't be a problem anymore.

I don't think you got me, I also don't want every point to be a service winner or a three shot rally, that'd be just as boring. What I want is variety, with different surfaces favoring different styles instead of grinding and pushing being favored all year long, so the most complete/adaptable players can thrive and not the ones who excel at one specific aspect of the game (endurance, stamina, movement, etc...).

Grindathons should be reserved for claycourts; on HC, not only are they boring to watch but they will shorten the careers of these guys and probably make them suffer after retirement as the surface isn't kind on the knees and joints at all.

Speeding up the courts would most likely only make the points too short for the majority of the field and most of tennis would become unwatchable. I have nothing against longer points and longer finals when 2 defensive specialists match up.

And as for Djoko-Murray, itīs not like they play with the same tactics against every player. How do you think they should play? Of course itīs going to be mostly about about trying to wear the other player out by moving him around the court and at the same time avoiding errors, risk is way too high to try to hit winners or come to the net. You will lose 100% with this tactic.

cmoss
09-12-2012, 11:11 AM
Not die yet,but terribly injured.:wavey:

Mark Lenders
09-12-2012, 11:15 AM
Speeding up the courts would most likely only make the points too short for the majority of the field and most of tennis would become unwatchable. I have nothing against longer points and longer finals when 2 defensive specialists match up.

And as for Djoko-Murray, itīs not like they play with the same tactics against every player. How do you think they should play? Of course itīs going to be mostly about about trying to wear the other player out by moving him around the court and at the same time avoiding errors, risk is way too high to try to hit winners or come to the net. You will lose 100% with this tactic.

Speeding up some of the courts. I'm not saying all courts should favor attacking shotmakers, there should be balance ie courts/conditions to favor all sorts of playing styles. Watching two defensive specialists play a long grinding match isn't bad or boring in itself, watching that all the time Slam after Slam is boring though.

Tag
09-12-2012, 01:18 PM
yes

the game is dominated by defensive pushing and high percentage tennis

disgusting stuff

attacking tennis killed by the slow courts

Snowwy
09-12-2012, 01:21 PM
:lol:

green25814
09-12-2012, 01:34 PM
People are taking the US OPEN final this year too seriously, 60% of the defensive tennis there was due to the wind. Without that both Djokovic and Andy would be much more offensive. They just aren't idiots and adjust their style to the opponent and conditions.

Burrow
09-12-2012, 02:01 PM
People are taking the US OPEN final this year too seriously, 60% of the defensive tennis there was due to the wind. Without that both Djokovic and Andy would be much more offensive. They just aren't idiots and adjust their style to the opponent and conditions.

A great tactic for the wind, especially with the wind behind you, is coming in to the net, how often did you see that?

Mr.Michael
09-12-2012, 02:15 PM
Tennis will suffer when Federer retires. Big time. We are at a crossroads here. They have to speed up some of the courts and soon. Otherwise we'll have in the year 2020 pretty much just robots and clones playing the same tennis over and over again. That Djokovic-Murray final was just a prelude of things to come. It doesn't matter if you are a Fedfan, Nadalfan, Djokerfan. We all agree that the game needs variety and players with different styles. Oh, and definitely the game needs superstars. That's why things look pretty dark after Fed and also Nadal.

AndyNonomous
09-12-2012, 04:14 PM
The game has become more defensive for 3 reasons (NOT slower courts).

1) Polyester strings - These are "dead" (they impart almost no energy to the ball - no "trampoline" effect). This enables players to hit the snot out of the ball, and the ball still drops in. Hence, the rallies last longer.

2) Softer balls - Tim Henman complained that Wimbledon started openning their ball cans earlier (causing them to lose some of the air, and making the softer and slower). I believe that other tournaments are using slower balls today as well.

3) Endurance enhancing supplements - SPANISH doping doctors Fuentes, and Del Moro have been caught boosting athletes (including Tennis players) stamina, by using Autologous blood doping, and EPO. People here are EXTREMELY naive if they think that their favorite player isn't using.

RinkaWaw
09-12-2012, 04:36 PM
The sport evolves and works in cycles. We might have to endure a few years of mostly defensive play, but you can be sure another attack minded player/s will show up. That's just how tennis works.

out_grinder
09-12-2012, 04:41 PM
This forum calls all who don't bash every ball that comes their way a pusher.

Yet, if they are the ultimate attacker (ie. someone who doesn't even let their opponent get into rallies in the first place) - they are called serve-bots.

Attacking tennis won't die with Federer - there's still... Isner...

Tag
09-12-2012, 06:46 PM
isner? attacking tennis?

lmao

clown can't move, volley, approach or dictate

at least a serve machine like ivanesevic in the 90s had the volleys to win wimbledon and reach later rounds at other slams

isner is serve, serve, and serve some more. so is ranoic for that matter.

Tag
09-12-2012, 06:51 PM
i think people are confused about what attacking tennis actually is

no surprise, given this slow, homogenized era

sampras, edberg, becker, mcenroe, these are attacking players

then you have someone like agassi who is aggressive from the baseline, goes for winners

federer is probably the closest around today to an attacking player. tsonga after him

even courier was more aggressive than most players today. yes, the same courier who out-grinded and out lasted his opponents at the austrlian and french.

Ben D.
09-12-2012, 06:52 PM
No, there is a new hope. Bernard Tomic. :lol:

DJ Soup
09-12-2012, 08:40 PM
With Federer will die a unique style of all-court attacking tennis, not attacking tennis per se.

Doesn't seem like the next generation has anything like that all-court style like Fed, Nalby or Haas.

Federer in 2
09-12-2012, 08:46 PM
No, but perfect tennis will.

DJ Soup
09-12-2012, 08:48 PM
With Federer will die a unique style of all-court attacking tennis, not attacking tennis per se.

Doesn't seem like the next generation has anything like that all-court style like Fed, Nalby or Haas.

Man, this made me remind myself of the legendary 'contra-tennis' coined by Federer, about Nalbandian's (and Federer's for that matter) style. Pretty much the most beautiful style in tennis.

thesouth
09-12-2012, 09:28 PM
No del pushtro with power pushing tennis will continue and everyone will revel in his power pushing by calling it attacking tennis. everyone will say del potro will win slams even when he loses to a 35 year old Ferrer on a grass court.