Now can we say big 4? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Now can we say big 4?

asianboy
09-11-2012, 09:52 AM
His Royal Highness Andy Murray won his first major. Novak said welcome to the club. Now can we say Andy joined the big three or one more slam to prove it?

sportstennis
09-11-2012, 10:01 AM
who care

Johnbert
09-11-2012, 10:09 AM
big4 now :smoke:

there where still doubts after that gold medal match, but now we can say big4 :angel:

Forehander
09-11-2012, 10:10 AM
Yes I believe so, this year truly marks it with each one of the top 4 claiming one slam each.

Australian Open: Novak Djokovic Runner up: Rafael Nadal Semi-finalists: Murray and Federer
French Open: Rafael Nadal Runner up: Novak Djokovic Semi-finalist: Roger Federer
Wimbledon: Roger Federer Runner up: Andy Murray Semi finalist: Novak Djokovic
US Open: Andy Murray Runner up: Novak Djokovic

They've played each other a few times and a fair share of wins and losses so it shows they are so equal and a cut above the rest.

shadows
09-11-2012, 10:21 AM
Yep, big 4 established.

Cousin Oliver
09-11-2012, 10:42 AM
Tentatively yes. If he hadn't won the Olympics I'd probably say no. I think the 2 taken together and a decent performance in the Wimbledon final pushes it to a yes.

Though an argument could be made that most of us didn't consider it a big 3 until Nole had won his 2nd Aussie open and for some it didn't happen until he won Wimbledon later that same year.

That said I will cautiously consider it a big 4 for the time being.

aselto
09-11-2012, 10:49 AM
He won a mediocre match yesterday where neither player was on top of their game. Looking at his career achievements and head to head against big 4, he should have won a slam earlier, and he finally did, but I would say he was a part of big 4 even before yesterday's victory.

Sophocles
09-11-2012, 10:51 AM
Clearly, yes. They've split the slams between them this year.

zhangxi8242
09-11-2012, 11:04 AM
yeb~~~

Tenn1sAdd1ct
09-11-2012, 11:22 AM
Murray is in for sure at the moment so right now itīs quite safe to say big 4. Though if we are talking about only slams, IMO itīs still big 3 but with Murray in and Fed no chance to win another GS.

Looner
09-11-2012, 11:24 AM
Murray is in for sure at the moment so right now itīs quite safe to say big 4. Though if we are talking about only slams, IMO itīs still big 3 but with Murray in and Fed no chance to win another GS.

Some people never learn and just love to look stupid, don't they :rolleyes:.

Cousin Oliver
09-11-2012, 11:29 AM
Some people never learn and just love to look stupid, don't they :rolleyes:.


It really is embarrassing how many times Federer has made them look stupid.

Certinfy
09-11-2012, 11:31 AM
Yes.

GOAT = Fed
09-11-2012, 11:38 AM
No. Not yet anyway.

Muray has only one slam whereas the other 3 have multiple slams.

Mark Lenders
09-11-2012, 11:41 AM
No. Not yet anyway.

Muray has only one slam whereas the other 3 have multiple slams.

Agree with this.

MaxPower
09-11-2012, 11:41 AM
Just like Del Potro he has to repeat it. Only one time and anyone that wants can call it fluke can do so with legitimate cause. But two times and Murray sends a message

Johnbert
09-11-2012, 11:43 AM
Just like Del Potro he has to repeat it. Only one time and anyone that wants can call it fluke can do so with legitimate cause. But two times and Murray sends a message

delpo doesn't have 5 gs-finals and a olympic gold medal. that's quite a difference.

BigJohn
09-11-2012, 11:44 AM
Just like Del Potro he has to repeat it. Only one time and anyone that wants can call it fluke can do so with legitimate cause. But two times and Murray sends a message

He has done more than del Flukro already, he has other slam finals and masters titles, something the Argentine is not able to do.

So big 4 it is.

:)

Fujee
09-11-2012, 11:46 AM
I am SO glad this annoying monkey is off Murrays back. I hope he plays with freedom and focus at the other slams. Tennis competition is better off with this result.

Looner
09-11-2012, 11:47 AM
Big 4 in terms of this year definitely but Muzz needs another slam or two to be considered close to those other 3 monsters.

cmoss
09-11-2012, 11:47 AM
Murray is more consistent and competes against the top guys much better than Del potro.Clearly the better player.

GOAT = Fed
09-11-2012, 11:55 AM
delpo doesn't have 5 gs-finals and a olympic gold medal. that's quite a difference.

Well have having a 20% conversion rate itself tells you that Murray shouldn't be in the top 4. If he can't take control of big matches then why should he be considered in league with the other 3 who have far better conversion rates and have played far better than Murray in GS finals.

With Del Potro, he beat 2 out of the current top 3 (keep in mind that Nadal/Federer were perhaps better than today) to win his slam.

Murray only one and only had to face only two top 10 opposition.

Looner
09-11-2012, 11:57 AM
Well have having a 20% conversion rate itself tells you that Murray shouldn't be in the top 4. If he can't take control of big matches then why should he be considered in league with the other 3 who have far better conversion rates and have played far better than Murray in GS finals.

With Del Potro, he beat 2 out of the current top 3 (keep in mind that Nadal/Federer were perhaps better than today) to win his slam.

Murray only one and only had to face only two top 10 opposition.

Ridiculous. Are you trying to preach the same idiotic logic of RNtards when they say it's better for RF to have "missed" those RG finals? Losing in a final does not make you a worse player - it makes you the 2nd best of that particular tournament.

Johnbert
09-11-2012, 12:18 PM
Well have having a 20% conversion rate itself tells you that Murray shouldn't be in the top 4. If he can't take control of big matches then why should he be considered in league with the other 3 who have far better conversion rates and have played far better than Murray in GS finals.

With Del Potro, he beat 2 out of the current top 3 (keep in mind that Nadal/Federer were perhaps better than today) to win his slam.

Murray only one and only had to face only two top 10 opposition.

you have to reach a final first to lose it. would murray be a better player, if he wouldn't have played those finals and lost in the semis? then he would also have a 100% conversion rate... :shrug:

SheepleBuster
09-11-2012, 12:25 PM
I think it's big 3. With Nole out of the picture now ... think about it. If Rafa does not miss that shot on 30-0 in the fifth set, Nole would be slamless this year. He is very very lucky to have one slam

Regenbogen
09-11-2012, 12:27 PM
If it's the "big 4" in terms of slam contenders (which seems to be how it usually gets used), then yes. In terms of career achievements, not really, but then they're really all in different categories anyways.

aselto
09-11-2012, 12:27 PM
For a player ranked #5 or lower, drawing Murray in his quarter is not much different than drawing the other 3 in terms of chances of getting to the semis - Murray reached SF or better in 7 of the last 8 slams, only Djoker was more consistent. So he's definitely a part of big 4 for anyone outside big 4 as what happens in the last two rounds of a grand slam tournament is none of their business.

Tripster
09-11-2012, 12:39 PM
Big 4? Depends on the perspective.

If you want to clarfiy who the big contenders for the slams 2013 are, then yes. I guess all of the slams will be won by these 4 people.

If you want to build a group with the most successful players of the past years, then clearly now.
Murrays accomplishments right now are too far behind the other 3. -Possibly this will change in 2013/2014 though.

Right On
09-11-2012, 12:44 PM
Nadal still in big 4 :confused:.

GOAT = Fed
09-11-2012, 12:58 PM
Ridiculous. Are you trying to preach the same idiotic logic of RNtards when they say it's better for RF to have "missed" those RG finals? Losing in a final does not make you a worse player - it makes you the 2nd best of that particular tournament.

How is it the same idiotic logic of the RN 'tards? Roger consistently reached the GS final of one particular tournament on a particular surface. Add to the fact that Roger didn't play bad at all in any of the matches bar 2008. In fact he probably could have beaten Nadal once or twice. That does not compare to Murray reaching 5 GS finals in which three of them he was mentally out before the first point even started and blasted off the court, in one he played decent but was far outplayed and in the one he won was very lucky that the conditions favoured him and Novak was nowhere near his normal level.

Also add to the fact that Murray has never played his best in 5 slam finals.

you have to reach a final first to lose it. would murray be a better player, if he wouldn't have played those finals and lost in the semis? then he would also have a 100% conversion rate... :shrug:
Well of course it's better to reach a final than a Semi final, but I'm pointing out the fact that having such a poor conversion record at slams is not good enough. It shows that Murray is not yet ready for the big stage. If he reaches another GS final and wins then I think he will good enough for the top 4.

TigerTim
09-11-2012, 01:19 PM
Murray is in for sure at the moment so right now itīs quite safe to say big 4. Though if we are talking about only slams, IMO itīs still big 3 but with Murray in and Fed no chance to win another GS.

mmm, these two guys haven't won the past two slams and competed the Olympic final or anything silly like that have they?

GOAT = Fed
09-11-2012, 01:22 PM
mmm, these two guys haven't won the past two slams and competed the Olympic final or anything silly like that have they?
hmmm, these two guys haven't won 16 slams and a gold medal put together or anything silly like that have they?

nole_no1
09-11-2012, 01:24 PM
Delpo has 1 slam too so we can say big 5 :shrug:

AZ-12
09-11-2012, 01:33 PM
"Delpo has 1 slam too so we can say big 5" Nah, I think we can only count multiple slam winners who are active players to be in the big league. Thus the big four clearly must be Federer, Nadal, Djokovic and Hewitt.

hisham70
09-11-2012, 02:42 PM
Yes, these are the gentlemen that have been dominating majors and masters for years. You cannot discount Murray for having less slams because tennis is not about slams, it's a larger enterprise.

Looner
09-11-2012, 02:45 PM
Last person to win a big tournament (GS + ATP 1000 + WTF) outside these 4 is Soderking in Bercy in 2010 :help:.

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
09-11-2012, 02:59 PM
yeah and del fakro fans who used to add del potro to the big 4 can f off now
murrah in the big 4

but... big 4 wont last long

blank_frackis
09-11-2012, 03:17 PM
The big 4 only has any meaning if you're talking about who the best four players are in the world right now. It's basically a term for who you can legitimately expect to win a slam in the near future. It's not a measure of overall career achievements, so the fact that Murray only has one slam doesn't make much difference.

That's why Del Potro isn't in there - because you can't realistically expect him to win a slam in the near future. He might shock everyone and do it, but the fact that he won one three years ago doesn't really mean anything in terms of his chances to do it now.

Johnny Groove
09-11-2012, 03:25 PM
Either call it a Big 5 w/ Delpo.

Or a Big 3 and a very large 2 w/ Delpo.

rocketassist
09-11-2012, 03:27 PM
Del Potro needs to get back in there and beat some of the top guys first. His displays at the Olympics were a positive sign for him though, he was playing some good first-strike stuff and using the net to good effect.

Looner
09-11-2012, 04:30 PM
Murray def Federer is now the only result we're yet to see in a slam between these four guys :cool:.

The Prince
09-11-2012, 04:50 PM
No. Not yet anyway.

Muray has only one slam whereas the other 3 have multiple slams.

Man up and get that chip off your shoulder.

Sapeod
09-11-2012, 05:17 PM
Each of them has a slam. The only difference is that Andy also has the Olympic gold. He's done far better in the big tournaments. That said, his masters tournaments this year haven't been that great.

It's always been the Big 4. Andy has consistently been way ahead of the rest and consistently up there in semis/finals.

Sapeod
09-11-2012, 05:24 PM
Just like Del Potro he has to repeat it. Only one time and anyone that wants can call it fluke can do so with legitimate cause. But two times and Murray sends a message
Do NOT compare Murray and Del Potro. Andy is so much better. Does Potro have an Olympic gold medal? Does he have 4 more slam finals? Does he have 6 more semi-finals? Does he have 24 titles? Does he have 8 masters titles? Hell, does he even have a winning record against any of the top 4?
Either call it a Big 5 w/ Delpo.

Or a Big 3 and a very large 2 w/ Delpo.
Nonsense. Del Potro doesn't have any masters titles and he can't challenge the top 4. How many times has he lost to Roger this year? He is not in the Big 5, slam or not.

Argenbrit
09-11-2012, 05:30 PM
Each of them has a slam.
17 > 11 > 5 > 1

Sapeod
09-11-2012, 05:32 PM
17 > 11 > 5 > 1
AO: Djokovic
RG: Nadal
WIM: Federer
USO: Murray

Overall results are meaningless unless you're talking about the best player of all time, best player of a generation, which of them is the best overall etc.

We're talking about current events. The Big 4 are current and currently, they all have 1 slam each. Understand? You might as well add Hewitt to the Big 4 using your logic, since he's got 2. Hell, why not bring Sampras back. He'd automatically be in the Big 4 with your logic even if he never won a match on the challenger tour :lol:

dazed1
09-11-2012, 05:34 PM
No, after he win lets say 3 slams we can.

Sapeod
09-11-2012, 05:37 PM
No, after he win lets say 3 slams we can.
You seem to confuse current Big 4 with overall Big 4. Currently, they all have a slam each. Murray has the Olympic gold too, so he's ahead when it comes to big titles.

Your logic is just like that other poster's. How about Hewitt? He's above Murray in slam titles won. Should we add him to the Big 4 even though he's nowhere near the top 4? Your logic is terrible and so is your post.

GOAT = Fed
09-11-2012, 05:57 PM
Do NOT compare Murray and Del Potro. Andy is so much better. Does Potro have an Olympic gold medal? Does he have 4 more slam finals? Does he have 6 more semi-finals? Does he have 24 titles? Does he have 8 masters titles? Hell, does he even have a winning record against any of the top 4?

Nonsense. Del Potro doesn't have any masters titles and he can't challenge the top 4. How many times has he lost to Roger this year? He is not in the Big 5, slam or not.

Del Potro beat a better version of Federer and Nadal than nowadays.

All who Murray had to defeat was a worn out, ragged and infuriated Nole.

Del Potro's achievement was far better than Murray's.

Also much more aesthetically pleasing tennis by Del Potro during USO 09 as opposed to the push fest on show yesterday.

The Prince
09-11-2012, 06:00 PM
Del Potro beat a better version of Federer and Nadal than nowadays.

All who Murray had to defeat was a worn out, ragged and infuriated Nole.

Del Potro's achievement was far better than Murray's.

Also much more aesthetically pleasing tennis by Del Potro during USO 09 as opposed to the push fest on show yesterday.

You are blinded by hatred, my friend.

Ben D.
09-11-2012, 06:01 PM
Big 4 it is.

Sapeod
09-11-2012, 06:01 PM
Del Potro beat a better version of Federer and Nadal than nowadays.
Andy had to win a tiebreak which he took 12-10. He had to shut off a comeback from Djokovic, which he did with style.
All who Murray had to defeat was a worn out, ragged and infuriated Nole.
Andy spent 5 more hours on court up to the final. He also had to comeback against Cilic and Lopez. Djokovic was fine throughout most of the tournament.
Del Potro's achievement was far better than Murray's.
Roger choked. Djokovic didn't, he made a comeback and Andy shut it off.
Also much more aesthetically pleasing tennis by Del Potro during USO 09 as opposed to the push fest on show yesterday.
This is one of your reasons why Del Potro is better? Because he hits the ball as hard as he can and doesn't think? Don't make me laugh.

You're talking nonsense as usual. Even if Del Potro's US Open win was "better", he doesn't have a masters title, whereas Andy has 8 of them. He doesn't have an Olympic gold and his slam record is piss poor compared to Andy's.

GOAT = Fed
09-11-2012, 06:03 PM
You seem to confuse current Big 4 with overall Big 4. Currently, they all have a slam each. Murray has the Olympic gold too, so he's ahead when it comes to big titles.

Your logic is just like that other poster's. How about Hewitt? He's above Murray in slam titles won. Should we add him to the Big 4 even though he's nowhere near the top 4? Your logic is terrible and so is your post.

But that is the problem. The top 3 were formed last season after Novak joined the party winning slams consistently. While he was dominating Nadal and Federer were not winning any slams. Yet it was still a top 3 because of their past achievements.

Murray is a disgrace to the top 4 if he is allowed to join the grpup. He adds nothing to the top 3 which they don't already have.

Corey Feldman
09-11-2012, 06:05 PM
No, its still a big 3

but i'm sure Nadal will be back well in Monte Carlo

Corey Feldman
09-11-2012, 06:06 PM
17 > 11 > 5 > 1its Fed/Muzza 18 >>>> 16 NoleDal, actually

Mark Lenders
09-11-2012, 06:07 PM
But that is the problem. The top 3 were formed last season after Novak joined the party winning slams consistently. While he was dominating Nadal and Federer were not winning any slams. Yet it was still a top 3 because of their past achievements.

Murray is a disgrace to the top 4 if he is allowed to join the grpup. He adds nothing to the top 3 which they don't already have.

I actually agree with most of what you say, but still I have to ask: why do you hate Murray so much, especially being British (I'm assuming)?

rocketassist
09-11-2012, 06:09 PM
I actually agree with most of what you say, but still I have to ask: why do you hate Murray so much, especially being British (I'm assuming)?

Doesn't like the fact he gets the adulation in Britain he thinks his beloved Federer should get instead (even though he does get plenty)

The Prince
09-11-2012, 06:15 PM
He should move to Switzerland, then.

Sapeod
09-11-2012, 06:17 PM
its Fed/Muzza 18 >>>> 16 NoleDal, actually
Good to see my quote is being out to good use :yeah:

18 >> 16 :wavey:

GOAT = Fed
09-11-2012, 06:21 PM
Good to see my quote is being out to good use :yeah:

18 >> 16 :wavey:

Don't think 18 should be there since 94% of that contribution is by one player.

Instead it should be 17>>16 :wavey:

Tripster
09-11-2012, 06:22 PM
It's always been the Big 4. Andy has consistently been way ahead of the rest and consistently up there in semis/finals.



The Big 4 are current and currently, they all have 1 slam each.


Which one counts Sapeod?

According to your logic, Murray was not part of the Big 4 before because he never had won a slam before.

Either way: There certainly was no Big 4 because Murray never won anything big. The others were just miles ahead.
Right now it's discussable.

EliSter
09-11-2012, 06:24 PM
Who the fuck cares about 18 >> 16 beside Gabbage and Feldman? :confused: Mandy and Olderer hate eachother. Idk how can some1 who is cheering for Federer can support Mugray ugly game unless its patriotic support :confused:

GOAT = Fed
09-11-2012, 06:27 PM
WHo the fuck cares about 18 >> 16 beside Gabbage and Feldman? :confused: Mandy and Olderer hate eachother.

It's just a farce by Sapeod to make it seem like Murray is significant in tennis world. If he weren't British not one single fuk would be given about him by the tennis world.


It's a disgrace and travesty that Murray is compared to the likes of Djokovic, Nadal and Federer.

The Prince
09-11-2012, 06:27 PM
Things that happened more than 18 months ago have no real bearing on current ability. You can say "17>11" or "17>16" all you like, but ancient history doesn't have a big say on what goes on presently. Murray is as good as anyone, and you can't say anything other than it is a big four.

Corey Feldman
09-11-2012, 06:28 PM
Who the fuck cares about 18 >> 16 beside Gabbage and Feldman? :confused: Mandy and Olderer hate eachother. Idk how can some1 who is cheering for Federer can support Mugray ugly game unless its patriotic support :confused:finally back after last night eh

the pain goes away sooner or later :hug:

Sapeod
09-11-2012, 06:30 PM
Don't think 18 should be there since 94% of that contribution is by one player.

Instead it should be 17>>16 :wavey:
Here's out it works.

Roger + Andy >>> Djokovic + Nadal in many ways.

Talent? Yes.
Games? Yes.
Sportsmanhip? Yes, they never cheat and never retire/fake injuries.
Slam count? Yes, even if Roger has most of them.

Do you get it? The Roger/Andy duo is just far better than Djokovic/Nadal, in every way. They'd probably be better in a doubles match too.

Fedray >>>>> Djokdal :wavey:
Which one counts Sapeod?

According to your logic, Murray was not part of the Big 4 before because he never had won a slam before.

Either way: There certainly was no Big 4 because Murray never won anything big. The others were just miles ahead.
Right now it's discussable.
Let me explain then.

Murray was always part of the Big 4 since 2009 since he's constantly one step behind them and a couple of steps ahead of the rest. You can call it the Big 3.5 if you want, that seems more appropriate. Now, he's definitely in the Big 4 because he has a slam. He's always been part of that group and way ahead of the rest. It's just that right now he's DEFINITELY part of the group.
WHo the fuck cares about 18 >> 16 beside Gabbage and Feldman? :confused: Mandy and Olderer hate eachother.
They may not be best friends, but they are the two most talented players on the tour atm. That's why me and Mikey team them up. It helps that we're fans of both of them and hate the other two cheaters :wavey:

The Prince
09-11-2012, 06:30 PM
It's just a farce by Sapeod to make it seem like Murray is significant in tennis world. If he weren't British not one single fuk would be given about him by the tennis world.


It's a disgrace and travesty that Murray is compared to the likes of Djokovic, Nadal and Federer.

You are unreal.

About twenty minutes ago, you were bleating on about how del Potro is just as relevant as Murray is in the tennis hierarchy. Seems like you cared enough about him.

Now you are saying nobody would care about him if he wasn't British. Ahem, Delpo isn't British, he hasn't achieved half of what Murray has, yet people care about him very much.

Even if you hate Murray, refrain from chatting nonsense in the future, please.

AntiTennis
09-11-2012, 06:30 PM
yea big4

Corey Feldman
09-11-2012, 06:31 PM
Sapeod is just heating up now, gonna drive the hataz insane :lol:

The Prince
09-11-2012, 06:31 PM
Tennis is an individual sport, I wouldn't start pairing players up in some fantasy slam count competition.

GOAT = Fed
09-11-2012, 06:32 PM
Things that happened more than 18 months ago have no real bearing on current ability. You can say "17>11" or "17>16" all you like, but ancient history doesn't have a big say on what goes on presently. Murray is as good as anyone, and you can't say anything other than it is a big four.

Well well using this logic it might as well be a big 2 since it will be a year by the time the next slam comes by when Djokovic last won a slam. Nadal hasn't won anything off clay in 2 years either and is injured right now. It will be nearly 7 months since he last won a slam when the AO starts.

Lettuce be real tea here now; the top 3 are called as such because of their career achievements and how thy continue to compete for the slams.

EliSter
09-11-2012, 06:37 PM
finally back after last night eh

the pain goes away sooner or later :hug:

Hurted indeed, but well crap happens sometimes. ;)

Here's out it works.

Roger + Andy >>> Djokovic + Nadal in many ways.

Talent? Yes.
Games? Yes.
Sportsmanhip? Yes, they never cheat and never retire/fake injuries.
Slam count? Yes, even if Roger has most of them.

Do you get it? The Roger/Andy duo is just far better than Djokovic/Nadal, in every way. They'd probably be better in a doubles match too.

Fedray >>>>> Djokdal :wavey:

Let me explain then.

Murray was always part of the Big 4 since 2009 since he's constantly one step behind them and a couple of steps ahead of the rest. You can call it the Big 3.5 if you want, that seems more appropriate. Now, he's definitely in the Big 4 because he has a slam. He's always been part of that group and way ahead of the rest. It's just that right now he's DEFINITELY part of the group.

They may not be best friends, but they are the two most talented players on the tour atm. That's why me and Mikey team them up. It helps that we're fans of both of them and hate the other two cheaters :wavey:

Who the hell cares if u and Feldman ganged up lol. You arent really so important as your opinions to, so forum has to listen to your twisted ideas that have no sense at all :lol: . If anything Mandy is talented is pushing and slice. :lol: Last 2 years you are talking that there is big 4 and now ur saying there is at this moment and before it never existed, you are eating your own words now. I never took u serious and never will.

GOAT = Fed
09-11-2012, 06:37 PM
You are unreal.

About twenty minutes ago, you were bleating on about how del Potro is just as relevant as Murray is in the tennis hierarchy. Seems like you cared enough about him.

Now you are saying nobody would care about him if he wasn't British. Ahem, Delpo isn't British, he hasn't achieved half of what Murray has, yet people care about him very much.

Even if you hate Murray, refrain from chatting nonsense in the future, please.

No I was saying that if Murray is to be put in the same breath as Fed djoko ect because he won a slam theb so does Del Potro because he had a far tougher road to his slam


It was an example.

The Prince
09-11-2012, 06:39 PM
Well well using this logic it might as well be a big 2 since it will be a year by the time the next slam comes by when Djokovic last won a slam. Nadal hasn't won anything off clay in 2 years either and is injured right now. It will be nearly 7 months since he last won a slam when the AO starts.

Lettuce be real tea here now; the top 3 are called as such because of their career achievements and how thy continue to compete for the slams.

I was more highlighting that Federer's achievements from way back shouldn't give him an automatic berth into a so called 'big #'. I think in the last 12-18 months, Djokovic has been the best player, followed by Nadal, followed by Federer, followed by Murray. However, the key point is this, the gaps between them are minimal. Statistics don't tell the whole story in this regard, in terms of level and ability, these four guys have been the pacesetters, and only these guys. You can't penalise Murray in any way now, as he's won his slam. The gap between Murray and the next player is huge, whoever it is? (Ferrer, Berdych, Tsonga or del Potro?)

EliSter
09-11-2012, 06:41 PM
Anyways ATP got what they wanted with " BIG 4 " farca, hope that bites them back.

Sanya
09-11-2012, 06:42 PM
We always had Big 4 since US-09. :p

ballbasher101
09-11-2012, 06:44 PM
It is the big 3 not 4. Nadal is done. Federer, Djokovic and Murray are the top dogs in the house :aparty:.

The Prince
09-11-2012, 06:47 PM
No I was saying that if Murray is to be put in the same breath as Fed djoko ect because he won a slam theb so does Del Potro because he had a far tougher road to his slam


It was an example.

Stop trying to back out of what you said. You claimed, 'not one single fuck would be given by the tennis world about Murray if he weren't British. That's laughable. Absolute British. Any world #2 is very muched loved by a number of people. Even guys like Corretja.

Secondly, we're getting into very complicated matters.

Yes I agree Del Potro had a harder path to his slam, but don't you agree, even if they've won the same amount of slams, Murray has far out-done him in just about every tennis regard?

Have you also not considered that Federer, Nadal and Djokovic all played unseeded players to win their first slam. For all the stick you give Murray, he's coped pretty well, playing quality players in the finals of grand slams.

GOAT = Fed
09-11-2012, 06:47 PM
Just cannot wait to see Nadal back and whooping Murray's ass in the slams :drool:

The Prince
09-11-2012, 06:49 PM
Nadal :spit:

Such a quitter. He couldn't be bothered to hang around in 2010 for the entire duration of the spanking that Murray gave him at the AO.

NJ88
09-11-2012, 06:50 PM
Absolutely we can say big four. I was saying before four since the start of the year but now it's pretty much confirmed.

People kept saying that the gap between Murray and the top three was huge, but it was never huge, this year or at least the past half a year the gap was none existant. In fact I think the last three or four months Murray has proved that he's pretty much the best player in the world right now. Seriously. This is the big four, and Murray is here to stay.

Mark Lenders
09-11-2012, 06:51 PM
Just cannot wait to see Nadal back and whooping Murray's ass in the slams :drool:

:lol: You know the Murray hate is strong when a Federer fan wants Nadal to whoop his ass. Seriously, why do you dislike Murray so intensely?

Cloudygirl
09-11-2012, 06:57 PM
Here's out it works.

Roger + Andy >>> Djokovic + Nadal in many ways.

Talent? Yes.
Games? Yes.
Sportsmanhip? Yes, they never cheat and never retire/fake injuries.
Slam count? Yes, even if Roger has most of them.

Do you get it? The Roger/Andy duo is just far better than Djokovic/Nadal, in every way. They'd probably be better in a doubles match too.

Fedray >>>>> Djokdal :wavey:



omg I only logged in to see if Andy's win had tipped you over the edge. You don't disappoint :haha: :haha:

GOAT = Fed
09-11-2012, 07:00 PM
Nadal :spit:

Such a quitter. He couldn't be bothered to hang around in 2010 for the entire duration of the spanking that Murray gave him at the AO.
brb Wimbledon 2010
brb French Open 2011
brb Wimbledon 2011
brb US Open 2011
brb 13-5
brb turkey status
:drool:
Stop trying to back out of what you said. You claimed, 'not one single fuck would be given by the tennis world about Murray if he weren't British. That's laughable. Absolute British. Any world #2 is very muched loved by a number of people. Even guys like Corretja.

Secondly, we're getting into very complicated matters.

Yes I agree Del Potro had a harder path to his slam, but don't you agree, even if they've won the same amount of slams, Murray has far out-done him in just about every tennis regard?

Have you also not considered that Federer, Nadal and Djokovic all played unseeded players to win their first slam. For all the stick you give Murray, he's coped pretty well, playing quality players in the finals of grand slams.
Well Federer, Nadal and Djokovic have more than backed up their first slams. This is not the case with Murray who has won his first slam at which age Federer had 9, Nadal had 10 and Djokovic has 5. :)

:lol: You know the Murray hate is strong when a Federer fan wants Nadal to whoop his ass. Seriously, why do you dislike Murray so intensely?
:lol:

Ever since I saw I have hated him because of his style of play. The guy clearly has talent yet always plays the 'safe' game. Add to this the fact that the British media hypes him to death as if he is the next Federer when he clearly isn't. Also hate his pathetic attitude on
court. He reakly is the only tennis player who I hate.

Allez
09-11-2012, 09:55 PM
Murray has destroyed the Triumvirate. Good.

Xenosys
09-11-2012, 10:18 PM
Yes. Finally!

timafi
09-12-2012, 12:20 AM
hell NO!

Murray gets lucky and wins the USO

Corey Feldman
09-12-2012, 12:22 AM
Nadal :spit:

Such a quitter. He couldn't be bothered to hang around in 2010 for the entire duration of the spanking that Murray gave him at the AO.
so true, that was defo one of Nadal's most suspicious retirements coz i remember him smiling like a weirdo when retiring

Topspindoctor
09-12-2012, 02:18 AM
I am laughing my ass off here. Mandy flukes a slam and now he's part of the big 4? :superlol: To be part of the big 4, you need to be a multi slam winner and #1 spot is also mandatory. And I don't want to hear excuses how #1 is hard to achieve. Nadal won 5 slams and olympic gold before he became #1. Let's see Mandy achieve the same, then let's talk. Right now it's still big 3. 3 and 1/4 at most.

Jimnik
09-12-2012, 02:27 AM
You could say big 4 whenever you liked. Freedom of speech.

Although the current gap in points between Djoker and Muzzboy is greater than Nadal and Ferrer. And Fed-Djoker gap is substantial too. Maybe "big 2" or "big 1"?

Jimnik
09-12-2012, 02:27 AM
I like to say "big 21".

Mae
09-12-2012, 02:30 AM
I like to say "big 21".

:haha: :rolls: :lol:

xargon
09-12-2012, 02:35 AM
No. Not yet anyway.

Muray has only one slam whereas the other 3 have multiple slams.

Yes,agree. Novak needed more than one slam to qualify. Murray needs number one also

xargon
09-12-2012, 02:40 AM
: Mandy and Olderer hate eachother.

They sure do. I think it started when they asked Murray what it takes to defeat Fed and he said-Nothing special.
I think Delp and Murray also don't get along.

Pipsy
09-12-2012, 03:02 AM
I don't think "The Big Four" is a past tense moniker. It is very much referring to the near future. Assuming Nadal is fit by the time the Australian Open comes around, how do you think the bookmakers and sports punters will see it. We can now truly say that there are four guys who are very real and close contenders for major tournaments.

Sure, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that a Tsonga, Berdych, del Potro, or fit Soderling could win one of these things but, the way things stand, it would be a surprise. Indeed, if any of The Big Four lose before the semi-final it will be counted as a "shock". I think it's quite justified.

Clydey
09-12-2012, 03:27 AM
Either call it a Big 5 w/ Delpo.

Or a Big 3 and a very large 2 w/ Delpo.

Del Potro isn't even close to Murray in terms of career achievements. He is not in the same bracket as Murray, however you decide to group the players.

You're talking about a player who hasn't even won a Masters title, nor has he shown the kind of consistency Murray has shown in the majors.

Clydey
09-12-2012, 03:31 AM
Del Potro beat a better version of Federer and Nadal than nowadays.

All who Murray had to defeat was a worn out, ragged and infuriated Nole.

Del Potro's achievement was far better than Murray's.

Also much more aesthetically pleasing tennis by Del Potro during USO 09 as opposed to the push fest on show yesterday.

Have you lost your memory? Nadal went through one of the worst periods of his career in 2009. He was also carrying a stomach injury in his match against Del Potro, which plagued him for the remainder of the season.

Vladoz
09-12-2012, 04:31 AM
LoL
Fed 17gs
nad 11gs
djok 5gs
mur 1gs? <-joke


Well for murray to win another gs it takes, Fed to fail in Quarters, Nadal not playing, djokovic getting screwed by the wind

BackhandDTL
09-12-2012, 04:33 AM
That mean ol' wind...picking on Djokovic like that...

Andy1402
09-12-2012, 05:00 AM
The BIG 4 refer to the top 4 players who are miles ahead of the pack. Murray is very much behind the top 3, but still ahead of everyone else.
These players make the semis of almost every slam, and it's always two of them competing in the finals. Murray is part of almost all semis and some finals. Hence, the big 4.

Andy1402
09-12-2012, 05:00 AM
The BIG 4 refer to the top 4 players who are miles ahead of the pack. Murray is very much behind the top 3, but still ahead of everyone else.
These players make the semis of almost every slam, and it's always two of them competing in the finals. Murray is part of almost all semis and some finals. Hence, the big 4.

Vladoz
09-12-2012, 05:06 AM
The BIG 4 refer to the top 4 players who are miles ahead of the pack. Murray is very much behind the top 3, but still ahead of everyone else.
These players make the semis of almost every slam, and it's always two of them competing in the finals. Murray is part of almost all semis and some finals. Hence, the big 4.

Uhm? Then we should call it The Big 3 And The Scottish guy whos got 1 grandslam

Nasi
09-12-2012, 05:14 AM
Uhm? Then we should call it The Big 3 And The Scottish guy whos got 1 grandslam


Nah, we'll just go ahead and call it the Big 4. Those are the 4 guys who are contending for each slam title. If someone else starts getting in the finals on a regular basis, maybe we'll start calling it the Big 5.

BackhandDTL
09-12-2012, 10:29 AM
If someone else starts getting in the finals on a regular basis, maybe we'll start calling it the Big 5.

Or Ferrer could grow a few inches.

TigerTim
09-12-2012, 10:32 AM
That mean ol' wind...picking on Djokovic like that...

:haha: so true.

Bitter tards angry Novak lacks the talent to play in the wind.

Looner
09-12-2012, 10:33 AM
Bitter tards angry Novak lacks the talent

Could have stopped there.

TigerTim
09-12-2012, 10:35 AM
Could have stopped there.

:haha:

GOAT = Fed
09-12-2012, 11:55 AM
Literally makes me sick seeing Mugray with the trophy. A sad day for tennis when a player relied on chokes from Lopez, Cilic and Berdych to win a GS.

Mark Lenders
09-12-2012, 11:56 AM
Literally makes me sick seeing Mugray with the trophy. A sad day for tennis when a player relied on chokes from Lopez, Cilic and Berdych to win a GS.

Berdych didn't choke. In the semis, Murray relied on the wind nullifying Berdych's serve and making his high ris groundstrokes miss the court.

Lopez and especially Cilic choked big time though.

GOAT = Fed
09-12-2012, 12:06 PM
Berdych didn't choke. In the semis, Murray relied on the wind nullifying Berdych's serve and making his high ris groundstrokes miss the court.

Lopez and especially Cilic choked big time though.

He was handling the wind pretty well first set then all of sudden as soon as he won it he couldn't play tennis in the wind anymore wtf?!?

Can't really remember the TB very well but wasn't he leading at one point in the TB with 1/2 mini breaks?

Sophocles
09-12-2012, 12:08 PM
They sure do. I think it started when they asked Murray what it takes to defeat Fed and he said-Nothing special.
I think Delp and Murray also don't get along.

It is glaringly obvious from what they've both said about each other since then that that is water under the bridge. The rapprochement started at the 2010 A.O.

Mark Lenders
09-12-2012, 12:11 PM
He was handling the wind pretty well first set then all of sudden as soon as he won it he couldn't play tennis in the wind anymore wtf?!?

Can't really remember the TB very well but wasn't he leading at one point in the TB with 1/2 mini breaks?

He can't play tennis in the wind, taking the 1st set was a small miracle in itself. His serve is useless in the wind due to his huge ball toss and his high risk attacking game leads to many errors in heavy windy conditions. Murray has a much more low risk game, he was always winning in those conditions where keeping the ball on court is the #1 requirement.

Tomas was a minibreak up in the tiebreak indeed, he was very close to winning that and thus the match; he started dominating as soon as the wind died down.

Backhand_Maestro
09-12-2012, 12:14 PM
Djokovic had so mcuh luck during his slam runs last year it's unreal but everyone's forgotten.

GOAT = Fed
09-12-2012, 12:16 PM
He can't play tennis in the wind, taking the 1st set was a small miracle in itself. His serve is useless in the wind due to his huge ball toss and his high risk attacking game leads to many errors in heavy windy conditions. Murray has a much more low risk game, he was always winning in those conditions where keeping the ball on court is the #1 requirement.

Tomas was a minibreak up in the tiebreak indeed, he was very close to winning that and thus the match; he started dominating as soon as the wind died down.

Yeah looking at their gamestyles ect it is pretty obvious to see that Murray would have prevailed in those atrocious conditions in the semi (And the first part of the final). But like I said, he kept it pretty competitive for the first set and then his tennis died out. Perhaps the winds got stronger after the first set?

Yeah as soon as the wind died down he started dictating the play against Murray in the fourth. It was a shame he couldn't take the fourth set, he deserved to win it.

GOAT = Fed
09-12-2012, 12:17 PM
Djokovic had so mcuh luck during his slam runs last year it's unreal but everyone's forgotten.

I can confirm, I was Djokovic's raquet. (srs)






















(not srs)

EliSter
09-12-2012, 12:19 PM
Djokovic had so mcuh luck during his slam runs last year it's unreal but everyone's forgotten.

:confused: Destroyed every1 at AO and Wimby? And slapng Olderer in SF at USO with that FH :drool:

Looner
09-12-2012, 12:20 PM
:confused: Destroyed every1 at AO and Wimby? And slapng Olderer in SF at USO with that fluky FH :drool:

Exactly. Fluked at least the USO if not more.

Mark Lenders
09-12-2012, 12:21 PM
Yeah looking at their gamestyles ect it is pretty obvious to see that Murray would have prevailed in those atrocious conditions in the semi (And the first part of the final). But like I said, he kept it pretty competitive for the first set and then his tennis died out. Perhaps the winds got stronger after the first set?

Yeah as soon as the wind died down he started dictating the play against Murray in the fourth. It was a shame he couldn't take the fourth set, he deserved to win it.

It took a huge effort to take the first set. Stronger winds or not, Murray was always likely to grind him out in those conditions.

And yes, Berdych deserved to be in the final, but nothing was stopping Murray here, it was just meant to be. I can't remember a Slam where the winner had so many unforeseen circumstances go his way as Murray here. Hopefully it will the only time this happens though :p

GOAT = Fed
09-12-2012, 12:22 PM
Also I'd much rather Djokovic >>>>>>> Mugaray.

GOAT = Fed
09-12-2012, 12:24 PM
And yes, Berdych deserved to be in the final, but nothing was stopping Murray here, it was just meant to be. I can't remember a Slam where the winner had so many unforeseen circumstances go his way as Murray here. Hopefully it will the only time this happens though :p

Yes very true. Cannot remember the last time a player had to rely on 2 players to choke and then have such favorable conditions in the semis and finals :lol:

And amen to your last statement,

EliSter
09-12-2012, 12:27 PM
Exactly. Fluked at least the USO if not more.

Only Nole can fluke 3 GS in a season :lol: Atleast he played one of the GOATs in every single GS he won ;) Btw i know the pain of that semi bro. ;)

GOAT = Fed
09-12-2012, 01:10 PM
Only Nole can fluke 3 GS in a season :lol: Atleast he played one of the GOATs in every single GS he won ;) Btw i know the pain of that semi bro. ;)

You can never feel the pain of losing a semi with 2 MPs up :sobbing:

It doesn't compare with losing a semi final because you couldn't hit an easy overhead smash :p

Roy Emerson
09-12-2012, 01:20 PM
Exactly. Fluked at least the USO if not more.

He also fluked Wimbledon by avoiding Federer who is 7 times the player Djokovic will ever be on grass. Tsonga did the dirty work for him. The only slam Novak won convincingly in 2011 was the AO.

It's not a coincidence that the only slam Novak defended this year is the AO.

EliSter
09-12-2012, 01:27 PM
You can never feel the pain of losing a semi with 2 MPs up :sobbing:

It doesn't compare with losing a semi final because you couldn't hit an easy overhead smash :p

That RG semi stinged cause Federer couldnt make a mistake and if Nole went into final im sure he would win it. This Mugray final stings too cause its Mandy after all and 3 hours for comback and hope and yet to fail...but u have point 2 MP saved in 2 years and loosing like that cant be compered. :mad:

Roy Emerson
09-12-2012, 01:30 PM
That RG semi stinged cause Federer couldnt make a mistake and if Nole went into final im sure he would win it. This Mugray final stings too cause its Mandy after all and 3 hours for comback and hope and yet to fail...but u have point 2 MP saved in 2 years and loosing like that cant be compered. :mad:

You bet. Novak blew it last year. He could have won the CYGS.

EliSter
09-12-2012, 01:31 PM
He also fluked Wimbledon by avoiding Federer who is 7 times the player Djokovic will ever be on grass. Tsonga did the dirty work for him. The only slam Novak won convincingly in 2011 was the AO.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Society/Pix/pictures/2010/4/21/1271861774568/Crying-Baby-001.jpg


And how about RG 2009, did he beat 7 RG champion to win it? :sad:?

Nole fan
09-12-2012, 01:32 PM
you have to reach a final first to lose it. would murray be a better player, if he wouldn't have played those finals and lost in the semis? then he would also have a 100% conversion rate... :shrug:

I think reaching a final is a great achievement in itself. A final match is only one match, you can win it or lose it. But most importantly is getting there after two weeks of intense play. These guys not only win all slams, they are also in every final and semifinal! So Big 4 it is, of course. Federer is still clearly ahead of all, Nadal close behind and Nole close behind Rafa. Murray is still a bit further away of them. In the following years we will see what happens. Djoker could get closer to Nadal's 11 or Nadal could get closer to Fed's 17, who knows. I think however a difference of 4 slams is a lot for Murray. Specially since the other three will keep winning most of them as well.

Nole fan
09-12-2012, 01:39 PM
He also fluked Wimbledon by avoiding Federer who is 7 times the player Djokovic will ever be on grass. Tsonga did the dirty work for him. The only slam Novak won convincingly in 2011 was the AO.

It's not a coincidence that the only slam Novak defended this year is the AO.

:rolleyes:

So in your opinion USO was not convincing? You just lost all credibility now. :facepalm:

And he won Wimbledon by his own merits, it's not his fault Federer didn't even make it to the semis. :shrug:

Roy Emerson
09-12-2012, 01:40 PM
I doubt Novak will win Wimbledon again. :shrug:

The USO SF last year was bizzare.

How come he couldn't defend the USO and Wimbledon this year?

His chances of winning RG will be greater than winning Wimbledon again in the future.

He is better on clay than on grass.

EliSter
09-12-2012, 01:42 PM
I doubt Novak will win Wimbledon again. :shrug:

He doesnt need to, he already got it, i just want him to get RG title and couple more HC ones and im happy. Even if im happy with his career as it is.

GOAT = Fed
09-12-2012, 01:48 PM
That RG semi stinged cause Federer couldnt make a mistake and if Nole went into final im sure he would win it. This Mugray final stings too cause its Mandy after all and 3 hours for comback and hope and yet to fail...but u have point 2 MP saved in 2 years and loosing like that cant be compered. :mad:

Oh, I thought you were refering to Wimnbledon this year in your last post :o

That RG felt good, man.

Probably one of my best moments ever as a Fed fan (srs).

The thing is Novak still has a lot of chances to win RG in the coming years. No need to worry about his Career slam just yet ;)

Roy Emerson
09-12-2012, 01:53 PM
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Society/Pix/pictures/2010/4/21/1271861774568/Crying-Baby-001.jpg


And how about RG 2009, did he beat 7 RG champion to win it? :sad:?

You think Novak will reach 5 RG finals like Federer?

If Novak reaches 5 Wimbledon finals then his Wimbledon title won't seem as flukey. Even if he never wins Wimbledon again.

Right now Novak's Wimbledon seems flukier than Roger's RG because of Roger's 5 RG finals.

Brick Top
09-12-2012, 03:50 PM
Hopefully more consistent DelPo will join them.

sexybeast
09-12-2012, 04:03 PM
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Society/Pix/pictures/2010/4/21/1271861774568/Crying-Baby-001.jpg


And how about RG 2009, did he beat 7 RG champion to win it? :sad:?

The 2009 RG was paid off because of all years not losing to anyone named Nadal in RG. That is to say waiting and waiting for the oppurtunity to come between 2005-2009, 5 years beating everyone not named Nadal. That is 5 finals and 1 RG, really well deserved.

Djokovic got to his only final without playing Murray and Federer but Rafa who was a great matchup for him. He did well to beat Tsonga in semifinal, it still is the best match I have seen Djokovic play on grass.

xargon
09-12-2012, 06:00 PM
Literally makes me sick seeing Mugray with the trophy. A sad day for tennis when a player relied on chokes from Lopez, Cilic and Berdych to win a GS.

I agree. Big-time chokes.

GOAT = Fed
09-12-2012, 06:03 PM
I agree. Big-time chokes.

I raged big time the way Murray and Petchey (I think) were dismissing Lopez before the match.

Would have loved him to beat Murray :drool:

Simply cannot stand Mugaray,

xargon
09-12-2012, 06:03 PM
He doesnt need to, he already got it, i just want him to get RG title and couple more HC ones and im happy. Even if im happy with his career as it is.

I would like him to win RG, Monte Carlo,Shanghai and Cincy.

Sapeod
09-12-2012, 09:46 PM
I raged big time the way Murray and Petchey (I think) were dismissing Lopez before the match.

Would have loved him to beat Murray :drool:

Simply cannot stand Mugaray,
You're as bitter as they come. Carry on whining though, it's amusing.