Are people now finally convinced Del Potro isn't a 'fluke'/flash in the pan? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Are people now finally convinced Del Potro isn't a 'fluke'/flash in the pan?

Mark Lenders
08-03-2012, 10:40 PM
Surely after watching his match today against Federer, even some of the doubters/haters who called him a fluke must have understood why/how Del Potro has got his hands on the US Open title, right?

He played an incredible match on his worst surface against the current #1, 7-time Wimbledon champions and his worst matchup on tour to boot. Not only was his hitting incredible, but his mentality too. His effort was nothing short of titanic. It is especially amazing that he is playing tennis of such great quality after everything he's been through, shows what a rare talent he is.

This is how he won a Slam back in 2009: huge yet consistent hitting off both wings, especially the forehand, and great play in clutch situations. It was his career threatening injury and surgery that made him cease to be a top player, not the so called flukish nature of his success.

But he's healthy now and rising again, as this week showed. At 23, he still has plenty of upside. I'm sure some doubters remain (either people who didn't watch the match or pure haters), but I believe this thread will be bumped in the near future as Juan Martin keeps climbing back to the world's top 4 and 'fluking' his way to some more great results.

Lleyton_
08-03-2012, 10:43 PM
Why, because he failed to beat Olderer? That's not good enough to convince anyone.

Mark Lenders
08-03-2012, 10:44 PM
It is if people actually watched the match and didn't just follow the scoreboard.

Watching Del Potro play today, it's pretty easy to understand why and now he won a Grand Slam by beating Fedal back to bakc when he was 20.

LastRocket
08-03-2012, 10:45 PM
There is no such thing as fluke when you defeat Nadal and Federer to win your first grand slam. Delpo is young and still has a shot to win another GS. He was on fire and no one could stop him at the 2009 USopen.

Sophitia36
08-03-2012, 10:46 PM
Well TBH I thought it was Roger who kept choking and making huge mistakes...

Mark Lenders
08-03-2012, 10:48 PM
There is no such thing as fluke when you defeat Nadal and Federer to win your first grand slam. Delpo is young and still has a shot to win another GS. Delpo was on fire and no one could stop him at the 2009 USopen.

I know that, just trying to see if the doubters/haters have changed their mind.

He did that at 20yo no less and against his worst matchup in the final, it was impressive :worship:

He can definitely win at least another one of course; he's just 23 (so he has upside) and there's no player below the age of 25 who's even remotely close to being as good as he is at the moment, so the future should be good for JMDP health allowing.

DJ Soup
08-03-2012, 10:49 PM
Well TBH I thought it was Roger who kept choking and making huge mistakes...

Hitting hard like Delpo does, doesn't make it any easy for Fed to employ his tactics

Sapeod
08-03-2012, 10:52 PM
Roger wasn't great today, just like he wasn't in the US Open final. At least he didn't give away the match this time. The slam title was a fluke, end of story.

Mark Lenders
08-03-2012, 10:57 PM
Roger wasn't great today, just like he wasn't in the US Open final. At least he didn't give away the match this time. The slam title was a fluke, end of story.

Of course. Del Potro surely deserves no credit. His devastating power off both wings had surely nothing to do with Federer's errors :rolleyes:

Burrow
08-03-2012, 11:02 PM
Del Potro was hitting the ball well today for his standards these days. Hitting the backhand better on the whole today and good depth, good balance and movement out to the backhand out wide. Still, Federer was far from his best today and it had nothing to do with Del Potro's play, Federer used to revel against powerful shots because his footwork was immense and he had great control and timing in being able to use the opponents pace, he wasn't quite Agassi on the half volley from the baseline but he was very good. He had the knack for anticipating the ball and this enabled his early preparation. You'll notice today when he's trying to handle these balls that he's trying more of a flick than anything else, when 5+ years ago the elbow was bent and the frame of the racket was horizontal. Add the wind to this and it's difficult. He's certainly far from what he was in this department as his footwork has become poorer and he doesn't have that same confidence.

Let's not attempt degrading Federer here to say he's not allowed to dictate the pace of a match. Even at his current level and age, he'll be the one dictating anyone on tour barring Nadal with a motivated performance.

This thread is really pointless.

Mark Lenders
08-03-2012, 11:10 PM
This thread is no attempt to degrade Federer, don't know where you got that from.

Litotes
08-03-2012, 11:11 PM
I never thought he was in the first place.

rocketassist
08-03-2012, 11:11 PM
We'll have to see if he can come through and win a title with all the top guys playing, if he can do that then he can certainly start removing the 'flash in the pan' tag.

Burrow
08-03-2012, 11:12 PM
This thread is no attempt to degrade Federer, don't know where you got that from.

I never said that.

And fluke and flash in the pan are two different things by the way.

Looner
08-03-2012, 11:13 PM
I never thought Delboy was a fluke but those that think so won't be convinced by today. They'd want to see him deny Roger another achievement for him to be worthwhile. Pathetic really.

I think time will show Delboy's no fluke but some people are not convinced of Roger's mastery (like Serbtards), so I find it hard people will shut up about Delboy just yet.

Mark Lenders
08-03-2012, 11:16 PM
I never said that.

And fluke and flash in the pan are two different things by the way.

Your post gave me that impression. I know Federer's footwork was better a few years ago and never claimed Federer was at his best. Regardless of that, it was still a great showing by Del Potro on a surface where he struggles a lot.

I used both expressions since I've seen both used to describe Del Potro's 2009 success.

We'll have to see if he can come through and win a title with all the top guys playing, if he can do that then he can certainly start removing the 'flash in the pan' tag.

So what you're saying is, if you only win a big title once, it is necessarily a fluke? That makes no sense at all. I mean, if Tsonga beats Federer, Nadal and Djokovic in a row to win the US Open, it will be a fluke just because it's his first? Winning only once doesn't make one a fluke.

I never thought Delboy was a fluke but those that think so won't be convinced by today. They'd want to see him deny Roger another achievement for him to be worthwhile. Pathetic really.

I think time will show Delboy's no fluke but some people are not convinced of Roger's mastery (like Serbtards), so I find it hard people will shut up about Delboy just yet.

He might very well have denied Federer, albeit indirectly :p It was a grueling match physically and mentally, remains to be seen how much Federer has left for the final.

But yeah, I guess some people will only be convinced if he wins a second Slam. Clearly, for some if you only win an event once it's a fluke.

rocketassist
08-03-2012, 11:22 PM
So what you're saying is, if you only win a big title once, it is necessarily a fluke? That makes no sense at all. I mean, if Tsonga beats Federer, Nadal and Djokovic in a row to win the US Open, it will be a fluke just because it's his first? Winning only once doesn't make one a fluke.


No he deserved to win it but it's his only title above 500 level or title with all of the field present and hasn't come close to winning one since so if he wants to be considered as the real top 4 or the real 4 as some of his fans insist he is, he has to win more big events. ;)

Burrow
08-03-2012, 11:23 PM
Your post gave me that impression. I know Federer's footwork was better a few years ago and never claimed Federer was at his best. Regardless of that, it was still a great showing by Del Potro on a surface where he struggles a lot.

I used both expressions since I've seen both used to describe Del Potro's 2009 success.

Which part gave you that impression? Whichever part, you've either misinterpreted it or I've come across in a way I didn't intend. I just think this thread is premature. Let's see him beat one of the top 4 to even start thinking about such a thread. :)

Alright, fair enough. Flash in the pan is more appropriate than a fluke, to me, though neither are relevant or even close to as much.

LastRocket
08-03-2012, 11:23 PM
So what you're saying is, if you only win a big title once, it is necessarily a fluke? That makes no sense at all. I mean, if Tsonga beats Federer, Nadal and Djokovic in a row to win the US Open, it will be a fluke just because it's his first? Winning only once doesn't make one a fluke.



He might very well have denied Federer, albeit indirectly :p It was a grueling match physically and mentally, remains to be seen how much Federer has left for the final.

But yeah, I guess some people will only be convinced if he wins a second Slam. Clearly, for some if you only win an event once it's a fluke.

2009 Roland Garros semi final:
Roger Federer def. Juan Martín del Potro 3-6 7-6 2-6 6-1 6-4

Del Potro got his revenge at the UsOpen. :)

Mark Lenders
08-03-2012, 11:30 PM
No he deserved to win it but it's his only title above 500 level or title with all of the field present and hasn't come close to winning one since so if he wants to be considered as the real top 4 or the real 4 as some of his fans insist he is, he has to win more big events. ;)

If he wants to be the real #4, he needs to collect enough points to reach that ranking really. Most of his fans just claim he is 'greater' than Murray because of his Slam, not that he should be in Murray's ranking position at the moment. Murray clearly deserves his ranking based on results of the past year.


Which part gave you that impression? Whichever part, you've either misinterpreted it or I've come across in a way I didn't intend. I just think this thread is premature. Let's see him beat one of the top 4 to even start thinking about such a thread. :)

Alright, fair enough. Flash in the pan is more appropriate than a fluke, to me, though neither are relevant or even close to as much.

Well, you started talking about Federer not being at his best and him having better footwork/dealing better with big hitters in his prime. It kinda came across (at least to me) as "Let's not overrate Del Potro, it's not like he was playing Federer at his best.".

True that he still lacks a big win since his comeback, but he's clearly making strides.


2009 Roland Garros semi final:
Roger Federer def. Juan Martín del Potro 3-6 7-6 2-6 6-1 6-4

Del Potro got his revenge at the UsOpen. :)

Indeed, lost 6-3, 6-0, 6-0 in AO too.

He kept coming closer and eventually beat Federer. He has a champion mentality, will not let bad losses affect him, but rather learn from them.

LaFuria
08-03-2012, 11:33 PM
I don't know why you are bothering, I'm sure the same people think Del Potro holding his own on grass was a fluke too.

On a serious note, I saw some promising thing in DelPo's grass game. Hopefully he can bring that to Wimbledon next year; he has potential to be a good grass player. I mean if Nadal and Djokovic can do it...

FiBeR
08-03-2012, 11:36 PM
Haters gonna hate. Del Potro is part of the Top 5.
Del Potro gave much more of a Challenge in his weakest surface today than Murray during the Wimbledon final :lol:

In fact, only in the final set he took as many games as Murray during the whole Wimbledon final :worship:

17 (19-17) vs 18 (4-6, 7-5, 6-3, 6-4)

:shrug: Im just using Sapeod's logic so I dont mean it to anyone but the toad kid (sapo = toad in spanish) and im not even pushing it too hard.. this Del Potro showed balls and potential to be a Grand Slam winner again
Del Potro >>>> Murray

Mark Lenders
08-03-2012, 11:36 PM
I don't know why you are bothering, I'm sure the same people think Del Potro holding his own on grass was a fluke too.

On a serious note, I saw some promising thing in DelPo's grass game. Hopefully he can bring that to Wimbledon next year; he has potential to be a good grass player. I mean if Nadal and Djokovic can do it...

It definitely wasn't a fluke. I expected him to lose, but not get destroyed today. People who watched his other matches this week could see that Federer wasn't just going to roll over him. I didn't expect Delpo to win a set, honestly, but didn't expect a rout either.

He has shown more confidence in his shots, been more aggressive than usual and even charged the net with success on many occasions (his net game is clearly making strides), not to mention improved his serve. I had seen some signs of his new grass game at Wimbledon, but it really came full flow here. His movement is still an issue but he has adapted to the situation by being more aggressive.

branimir_iliev
08-03-2012, 11:37 PM
Surely after watching his match today against Federer, even some of the doubters/haters who called him a fluke must have understood why/how Del Potro has got his hands on the US Open title, right?

He played an incredible match on his worst surface against the current #1, 7-time Wimbledon champions and his worst matchup on tour to boot.

Two tidbits here: I personally never thought that Del Potro was ever a 'fluke'. I think there are people who insinuate that but they are either intentionally or unintentionally insulting Federer as well when they do this. There are people with an agenda who obviously will try to diminish anything 'Roger Federer'. By calling Delpo a fluke, they try to take a veiled shot at Federer. And there may be people who inadvertently say things like this (Delpo was a fluke) because it sounds fashionable and end up unwittingly insulting Federer (who they may even like).

Delpo quite simply played an incredible '09 USO. He deserved every bit of that trophy. Arguably, Roger 'could' have won that final but that's another point/discussion altogether. But Delpo is not a fluke. He was progressing really well before his injury and might have cracked the top 4, won more slams, eclipsed Murray, who knows. His injury, I think, derailed both his momentum and his evolution as a player.

Final point about surface: I disagree that grass should be, by definition, his 'worst surface'. Maybe his least successful surface in terms of his young resume but he's got all the right tools to do really well on grass - big serves, crushing groundies fh + bh, soft touch at the net for a big man, good movement for a big man. His footwork isn't exactly Federer's, Nadal's or Murray's or Joker's on grass but it's very decent and he can still improve. Just because he's had some bad outs on grass in his career doesn't mean that he is not well-equipped for grass tennis. I think he is. And he showed it today.
The rest of your post, I agree with.

LaFuria
08-03-2012, 11:40 PM
It definitely wasn't a fluke. I expected him to lose, but not get destroyed today. People who watched his other matches this week could see that Federer wasn't just going to roll over him. I didn't expect Delpo to win a set, honestly, but didn't expect a rout either.

He has shown more confidence in his shots, been more aggressive than usual and even charged the net with success on many occasions (his net game is clearly making strides), not to mention improved his serve. I had seen some signs of his new grass game at Wimbledon, but it really came full flow here. His movement is still an issue but he has adapted to the situation by being more aggressive.

If his net game continues to improve the way it has been, and he serves like he has been, there's no reason he can't be a good grass player even if his movement on the surface is lacking. Along with his groundstrokes on his day he potentially could be undefendable on grass.

Looner
08-03-2012, 11:41 PM
Del Potro has one attribute (and a lot of it) that many players (such as Tsonga) in the modern game lack - real desire, hunger and heart of a champion. He wants to improve and he'll do it. I have never lost faith in him.

Mark Lenders
08-03-2012, 11:44 PM
Two tidbits here: I personally never thought that Del Potro was ever a 'fluke'. I think there are people who insinuate that but they are either intentionally or unintentionally insulting Federer as well when they do this. There are people with an agenda who obviously will try to diminish anything 'Roger Federer'. By calling Delpo a fluke, they try to take a veiled shot at Federer. And there may be people who inadvertently say things like this (Delpo was a fluke) because it sounds fashionable and end up unwittingly insulting Federer (who they may even like).

Delpo quite simply played an incredible '09 USO. He deserved every bit of that trophy. Arguably, Roger 'could' have won that final but that's another point/discussion altogether. But Delpo is not a fluke. He was progressing really well before his injury and might have cracked the top 4, won more slams, eclipsed Murray, who knows. His injury, I think, derailed both his momentum and his evolution as a player.

Final point about surface: I disagree that grass should be, by definition, his 'worst surface'. Maybe his least successful surface in terms of his young resume but he's got all the right tools to do really well on grass - big serves, crushing groundies fh + bh, soft touch at the net for a big man, good movement for a big man. His footwork isn't exactly Federer's, Nadal's or Murray's or Joker's on grass but it's very decent and he can still improve. Just because he's had some bad outs on grass in his career doesn't mean that he is not well-equipped for grass tennis. I think he is. And he showed it today.
The rest of your post, I agree with.

Great post :yeah:

Yes, some people don't realize it, but calling Del Potro a fluke is actually more insulting to Federer (who 'allowed' such fluke to win a Slam) than to Del Potro himself. In fact, it's not insulting to Delpo at all, it's basically calling him an overachiever.

About about 2009. Delpo came within a whisker of beating Federer in Paris and then won in USO, both matches could have gone both ways. He had just become #4 and was still rising, the injury was of course most unfortunate but hopefully that's behind him now (as much as possible).

His problem on grass is the movement, he really can't move as well as on clay and hardcourts, although he's showing improvements. He has negated that, though, by adopting a far more aggressive game style in this tournament; serving better and being really aggressive off the ground and charging the net. A far cry from his usual 'blast the ball down the middle until getting a short ball to put away' tactics.

Del Potro has one attribute (and a lot of it) that many players (such as Tsonga) in the modern game lack - real desire, hunger and heart of a champion. He wants to improve and he'll do it. I have never lost faith in him.

I agree that Del Potro has incredible desire and hunger, he will not give up no matter how many setbacks he has.

I also agree Tsonga lacks that; it's not like he doesn't want to win, but he is basically a guy who's out there to enjoy tennis and have fun on court first and foremost (which is ok, really, winning isn't everything, you're supposed to be happy in your career). You'd never see Del Potro having a laugh with Murray (or anyone else) after losing a GS semifinal like Tsonga did.

That said, the thing Jo lacks the most is a quality backhand and ROS, both shots are the worst in the top 10 now that Isner in not in it.

If his net game continues to improve the way it has been, and he serves like he has been, there's no reason he can't be a good grass player even if his movement on the surface is lacking. Along with his groundstrokes on his day he potentially could be undefendable on grass.

Indeed, I'll be hoping to see further improvements on grass next year :) He should at least be competitive on the surface against the best players and today he showed he can do that.

green25814
08-03-2012, 11:47 PM
I never thought he was a 'fluke', I'm just one of those people who thinks Del Potro was on a hot streak which was destined to end. As far as I'm concerned he's as good now as he was pre-injury.

I'm also pretty jealous of him as a Murray fan, won't deny it. Federer played a poor final against Del Potro, while he's been incredible against Andy. Its annoying tbh

Mark Lenders
08-03-2012, 11:54 PM
I never thought he was a 'fluke', I'm just one of those people who thinks Del Potro was on a hot streak which was destined to end. As far as I'm concerned he's as good now as he was pre-injury.

I'm also pretty jealous of him as a Murray fan, won't deny it. Federer played a poor final against Del Potro, while he's been incredible against Andy. Its annoying tbh

:rolleyes: Yes, the fact that Del Potro has far more weapons than Murray has surely nothing to do with that. The power and consistency of Del Potro's shots surely had nothing to do with Federer making errors in the USO 2009 final. Murray was just unlucky to face a strong Federer in all his 3 finals, while Del Potro caught Federer on the only non-Nadal final where he played badly. All luck this Del Potro.

As for the first part, that was quite a long hot streak since he was playing great tennis for like a year. It 'ended' because he had to leave the tour, not because he wasn't 'hot' anymore.

Andi-M
08-03-2012, 11:56 PM
Think about Andy roddick Wimbledon final 2009 came sooo close to beating Federer, but didn't, everyone thought he would kick on from that. He didn't.

Its from here on in we will see. Surely todays match was a great effort from DP, he dispalyed his unbelivable talent as well as a heart for the fight....however almost winning dosen't really count.

I personally don't think his USO 2009 victory was a fluke at all, he was simply sensational.

But for people that did, he'll have to do alot more than push Federer close in a match to prove them otherwise.

Brick Top
08-03-2012, 11:56 PM
He will have his moments in the future, but I don't see him being constant on a regular basis.

Mark Lenders
08-03-2012, 11:58 PM
Think about Andy roddick Wimbledon final 2009 came sooo close to beating Federer, but didn't, everyone thought he would kick on from that. He didn't.

Its from here on in we will see. Surely todays match was a great effort from DP, he dispalyed his unbelivable talent as well as a heart for the fight....however almost winning dosen't really count.

I personally don't think his USO 2009 victory was a fluke at all, he was simply sensational.

But for people that did, he'll have to do alot more than push Federer close in a match to prove them otherwise.

I was not talking so much about the result (pushing Federer to 19-17) but about his tennis. I mean, the people who wondered how Delpo could win a Slam, they must have understood how he did it by watching the match today.

swisht4u
08-04-2012, 12:03 AM
DelPo's game is continuing to improve, once we get to hardcourts we'll get a better picture of where it's at.

I think he'll be playing in Toronto next.

Arkulari
08-04-2012, 12:05 AM
Juan has never been a fluke, he got a very difficult surgery and slowly but surely clawed his way back to the top. He's getting close to his USO 09 form and when he's there, he'll rightfully claim his place at the top of the game.

Burrow
08-04-2012, 12:15 AM
Think about Andy roddick Wimbledon final 2009 came sooo close to beating Federer, but didn't, everyone thought he would kick on from that. He didn't.

Its from here on in we will see. Surely todays match was a great effort from DP, he dispalyed his unbelivable talent as well as a heart for the fight....however almost winning dosen't really count.

I personally don't think his USO 2009 victory was a fluke at all, he was simply sensational.

But for people that did, he'll have to do alot more than push Federer close in a match to prove them otherwise.

http://oi39.tinypic.com/2hdp0u9.jpg










































http://i40.tinypic.com/s25z68.jpg

tealeaves
08-04-2012, 12:16 AM
I never thought he was in the first place.

this

redshift36188
08-04-2012, 12:17 AM
Tbh, I think DelPo is as one-dimensional as Ferrer, if not more, but his power and consistency works.

DJ Soup
08-04-2012, 12:21 AM
Tbh, I think DelPo is as one-dimensional as Ferrer, if not more, but his power and consistency works.

he's got fine touch, and is increasingly hitting more angles and going to the net.
But no, he's not Nalbandian.

Sanya
08-04-2012, 12:24 AM
You can`t win Slam final against Fed without some luck, but luck isn`t = "fluke". Hope it helps. :wavey:
But for people who think other way I`m pretty sure this sf has changed nothing in their mind. But who really cares? Let it be, I`ll laugh at all such comments about "fluke" when HMDP wins his 2 (3-4-5...) Slams. I`m sure it`ll happen in the next few years.

Mark Lenders
08-04-2012, 12:24 AM
Tbh, I think DelPo is as one-dimensional as Ferrer, if not more, but his power and consistency works.

Disagree completely. He's not the master of variety by any means, but he has far more than Ferrer.


Juan has never been a fluke, he got a very difficult surgery and slowly but surely clawed his way back to the top. He's getting close to his USO 09 form and when he's there, he'll rightfully claim his place at the top of the game.

I fully subscribe to this opinion :yeah:

nastoff
08-04-2012, 12:25 AM
He's not a fluke surely but I can't stand his ball-bashing, unimaginative tennis. You can put a machine shooting balls and it'll be as exciting.

Sham Kay
08-04-2012, 12:26 AM
Don't worry, most of the in-the-know fans know just how good DelPo is.

Terrible against Fed as a match up, had his best chance today, and now is unlikely to get any better against the man. Mental block + talent block

BigJohn
08-04-2012, 12:31 AM
Major titles: 1 USO 09

Masters titles: 0 (1 final)

Sure... It does not look like a fluke one bit. He has achieved so much.

nastoff
08-04-2012, 12:32 AM
Tbh, I think DelPo is as one-dimensional as Ferrer, if not more, but his power and consistency works.

+1

He looks great for 250-500 tournaments where he can blast away the field with his consistency and clutch play - like he did in his breakthrough year - but when he comes up against the top guys his game looks blunt.
Then again you don't need to play pretty tennis to win matches, just being a virtual machine will do.

blank_frackis
08-04-2012, 12:35 AM
It's hard to be that impressed by the match today when only a month or so ago we watched Del Potro get completely demolished by Ferrer. As good as he looked today, he looked absolutely clueless in his loss at Wimbledon, minor injury or not.

For what it's worth, I don't think his US Open was a fluke, but he did get a little bit of luck on the way. Murray (quarter-final) injured his wrist, Nadal was a shadow of himself between RG 2009 and early 2010 and Federer played poorly in the final. DelPo played brilliantly in that US Open, but then you could say that other players didn't get the bit of luck during their hot streak at a slam (Soderling at RG, Berdych at Wimbledon, Murray a bunch of times). All of them also played brilliantly in slams, but didn't actually win one because they ran into one of the top three in top form.

yesyesok
08-04-2012, 12:36 AM
Del Potro and Murray had almost parallel careers at one point.

Murray is one year older then Del Potro.

In 2008 Murray won his first MS in ((I think)) his first MS final at Cincinnatti, he then lost his first GS final to Roger Federer at US Open.

One year later Del Potro loses his first MS final (to Murray no less) but then actually wins the his first GS final v Roger Federer.

They both had a massive breakthrough year at the same age, albeit DP broke his slam duct, but then Del Potro got an almost career ending injury, and Murray went on to develop a massive monkey on his back with grand slams but has won so many masters titles he's pissing them up the wall.

Fact is, Del Potro has the better deal now, he has won a grand slam, regardless of who is 'better'. If Murray wins a grand slam soon then there's no debate who is more succesful, but until that day......

As for the 2009 US Open final, I have never seen more impressive tennis from anybody, than Del Potro in the 4th and 5th sets.

Sanya
08-04-2012, 12:39 AM
Major titles: 1 USO 09

Masters titles: 0 (1 final)

Sure... It does not look like a fluke one bit. He has achieved so much.
Of course, as he played the same quantaty of tournaments as other tops and never missed anything and wasn`t injured. :rolleyes:

alter ego
08-04-2012, 12:44 AM
:rolleyes: Yes, the fact that Del Potro has far more weapons than Murray has surely nothing to do with that. The power and consistency of Del Potro's shots surely had nothing to do with Federer making errors in the USO 2009 final. Murray was just unlucky to face a strong Federer in all his 3 finals, while Del Potro caught Federer on the only non-Nadal final where he played badly. All luck this Del Potro.

As for the first part, that was quite a long hot streak since he was playing great tennis for like a year. It 'ended' because he had to leave the tour, not because he wasn't 'hot' anymore.

Early campaigning for ACC?

Murray has a winning H2H against pony (5-1 all before JMDP injury). And if you want to comapre Murray's H2H against Fed with Del Potro's H2H against Fed that's even more of a laugh.

Mark Lenders
08-04-2012, 12:47 AM
Early campaigning for ACC?

Murray has a winning H2H against pony (5-1 all before JMDP injury). And if you want to comapre Murray's H2H against Fed with Del Potro's H2H against Fed that's even more of a laugh.

I didn't say anything about their H2H. Don't know what relevance that has, but feel free to elaborate. Murray has a 5-1 H2H vs Delpo and better vs Federer too so...

green25814
08-04-2012, 12:51 AM
:rolleyes: Yes, the fact that Del Potro has far more weapons than Murray has surely nothing to do with that. The power and consistency of Del Potro's shots surely had nothing to do with Federer making errors in the USO 2009 final. Murray was just unlucky to face a strong Federer in all his 3 finals, while Del Potro caught Federer on the only non-Nadal final where he played badly. All luck this Del Potro.

As for the first part, that was quite a long hot streak since he was playing great tennis for like a year. It 'ended' because he had to leave the tour, not because he wasn't 'hot' anymore.

Federer not playing well isn't a knock on Del Potro, but its the truth. If the Fed of Wimbledon 2012 had shown up, maybe Del Potro would've raised his own game and won anyway, who knows. All we know is that he fully deserved his grandslam victory, noone can say any different.

green25814
08-04-2012, 12:53 AM
That doesn't change the fact that in my eyes Murray would've also beaten that Federer. Like I say, its a tough pill to swallow as a Murray fan.

Sorry for double post, for some reason if my post is too big I time out on this forum

alter ego
08-04-2012, 12:54 AM
I didn't say anything about their H2H. Don't know what relevance that has, but feel free to elaborate. Murray has a 5-1 H2H vs Delpo and better vs Federer too so...

It seems your logic is as good as your predictions.

Yes, the fact that Del Potro has far more weapons than Murray has surely nothing to do with that

If that was true those H2Hs would look a whole lot different. But since they are what they are it results that your assessment that Del Potro has more weapons than Murray is false.

yesyesok
08-04-2012, 12:55 AM
I do think people underestimate how much harder it must be to do simple shots like backhand slices etc when Del Potro is putting his full speed forehands straight back at you and painting the lines.

Murray may well have beaten 2009 US Open Federer, but not one part of me believes he would have beaten 2009 US Open Del Potro.

Mechlan
08-04-2012, 01:01 AM
Del Potro is no fluke, but until he starts beating the top 4, he's still in that next tier below the very top.

Mark Lenders
08-04-2012, 01:03 AM
That doesn't change the fact that in my eyes Murray would've also beaten that Federer. Like I say, its a tough pill to swallow as a Murray fan.

Sorry for double post, for some reason if my post is too big I time out on this forum

A player's level is never independent of his rival, not in a matchup sport like tennis. Murray could have beaten that Federer, but could he have made Federer play like he did in USO 2009? No, he has shown that multiple times.

It is not a coincidence that Federer always seems to play great in his finals vs Murray and not against Del Potro. When he's at his best, Del Potro's consistent power and aggression can cause Federer the kind of problems that Murray's game can't; Federer can easily dictate play against Murray, he couldn't do it against Del Potro that day.

It seems your logic is as good as your predictions.



If that was true those H2Hs would look a whole lot different. But since they are what they are it results that your assessment that Del Potro has more weapons than Murray is false.

Ah so Nadal has more weapons than Federer? If he didn't, surely the H2H would look a lot more different. Not to mention Safin is weaponless compared to Santoro, right :rolleyes:?


Del Potro does have more weapons than Murray, including the biggest forehand (by a distance) in men's tennis. If Murray could do this, he'd have a Slam to his name too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RcxYFBOehU Or more since unlike Juan he has had a good run of health.

LastRocket
08-04-2012, 01:04 AM
I do think people underestimate how much harder it must be to do simple shots like backhand slices etc when Del Potro is putting his full speed forehands straight back at you and painting the lines.

Murray may well have beaten 2009 US Open Federer, but not one part of me believes he would have beaten 2009 US Open Del Potro.

:yeah:

The Prince
08-04-2012, 01:05 AM
He's back, but not to his best, yet.

green25814
08-04-2012, 01:13 AM
A player's level is never independent of his rival, not in a matchup sport like tennis. Murray could have beaten that Federer, but could he have made Federer play like he did in USO 2009? No, he has shown that multiple times.

It is not a coincidence that Federer always seems to play great in his finals vs Murray and not against Del Potro. When he's at his best, Del Potro's consistent power and aggression can cause Federer the kind of problems that Murray's game can't; Federer can easily dictate play against Murray, he couldn't do it against Del Potro that day.

I'm amazed at how certain you seem of this. Del Potro has only played ONE final against Fed. Tennis is a game of tiny variables, particularly at the top of the sport. Truth is that any of these guys could beat each other in a slam. Things are decided by small technical advantages and their mentality.

cardio
08-04-2012, 01:20 AM
Cant see why todays match was so special? He was close , but couldnt deliver. Fed wasnt that great either, choked away when served for it..
Reminded me Fed - Benny match in Wimbldon. Some outstanding performance from underdog,good start, good fighting spirit, 2 points from win... and still lost it.

It doesnt say anything about his future or predict USO title . He is still tier 2 guy after top 4 who are regulars in slam semifinals / finals .

About DelPo`s hardcourt season, we dont know how good he will be there. People said exactly same thing last year : US hardcourts are coming , now he shows what he can do . But he failed.

Would be great if he would beat some top guns in New York, tennis needs more competition in very top, especially now when Söderling is missing and Berdych is in slump again . This Djoko-Nadull- Fed Trinity was getting really annoying, hope is that Murray and Del Po can make it more interesting.

Mark Lenders
08-04-2012, 01:27 AM
I'm amazed at how certain you seem of this. Del Potro has only played ONE final against Fed. Tennis is a game of tiny variables, particularly at the top of the sport. Truth is that any of these guys could beat each other in a slam. Things are decided by small technical advantages and their mentality.

I'm pretty sure that Murray can't generate the sort of devastating and consistent power off both wings that Del Potro can, and thus can't dictate his own fate against the best players in the game in the biggest matches. He was dictated by Federer in all his Slam finals, Del Potro managed to put Federer on the back foot with huge winners off both wings, that was the main difference.

Rafa = Fed Killa
08-04-2012, 01:30 AM
Del Potro losing proves he is a future grand slam winner instead of staying a one time wonder.

If he won it would have shown true mental strength. Many guys have pushed Fed to the edge who suck and couldnt win. Happens once each tourny.

FiBeR
08-04-2012, 01:31 AM
I do think people underestimate how much harder it must be to do simple shots like backhand slices etc when Del Potro is putting his full speed forehands straight back at you and painting the lines.

Murray may well have beaten 2009 US Open Federer, but not one part of me believes he would have beaten 2009 US Open Del Potro.

but he lost to Cilic :p invalid argument.

Fact: Del Potro has a Grand Slam and has much more heart than Murray will ever have

alter ego
08-04-2012, 01:45 AM
I'm pretty sure that Murray can't generate the sort of devastating and consistent power off both wings that Del Potro can, and thus can't dictate his own fate against the best players in the game in the biggest matches. He was dictated by Federer in all his Slam finals, Del Potro managed to put Federer on the back foot with huge winners off both wings, that was the main difference.

Tardism at its finest.
Those huge winners you talk about can only happen if Del Potro has the upper hand in the point from the start of the rally. Otherwise Del Potro has no deffensive skills, he is a sitting duck when reciving against Fed. The only way he can break is if Fed has an awful serving day.
Surprise, surprise Fed had an awful serving day in that bloody USO final when he managed only 51% first serves in and he made 11 DFs (that's rock bottom when it comes to the Federer serve).

uxyzapenje
08-04-2012, 02:00 AM
Whoever thinks USO 2009 was a fluke is a moron. I would love to see everyone getting their shit together to see 2009 (USO) Delpo, 2011 Novak and 2010 Rafa in 1 tourney (maybe USO) and it would be fantastic if Fed could roll beck the time and get to 2006 lvl.. Just for 1 tourney guys, then you can go back to getting things done vs less players with 60% of your game.

Mark Lenders
08-04-2012, 02:04 AM
Tardism at its finest.
Those huge winners you talk about can only happen if Del Potro has the upper hand in the point from the start of the rally. Otherwise Del Potro has no deffensive skills, he is a sitting duck when reciving against Fed. The only way he can break is if Fed has an awful serving day.
Surprise, surprise Fed had an awful serving day in that bloody USO final when he managed only 51% first serves in and he made 11 DFs (that's rock bottom when it comes to the Federer serve).

Ah his defense is actually quite decent for a big guy (although obviously far from someone like Murray) and more important his forehand on the run is the best on tour. In that USO final, he won a lot of points from defensive positions with blistering forehands on the run that Federer couldn't get a racket on. Even today he had quite a few points like that.

DJ Soup
08-04-2012, 02:20 AM
Whoever thinks USO 2009 was a fluke is a moron. I would love to see everyone getting their shit together to see 2009 (USO) Delpo, 2011 Novak and 2010 Rafa in 1 tourney (maybe USO) and it would be fantastic if Fed could roll beck the time and get to 2006 lvl.. Just for 1 tourney guys, then you can go back to getting things done vs less players with 60% of your game.

in such event, Fed beats them all actually

LaFuria
08-04-2012, 02:31 AM
Ah his defense is actually quite decent for a big guy (although obviously far from someone like Murray) and more important his forehand on the run is the best on tour. In that USO final, he won a lot of points from defensive positions with blistering forehands on the run that Federer couldn't get a racket on. Even today he had quite a few points like that.

The American commentator (forget who) said Del Potro's running forehand is the best since Sampras. They might be right.

uxyzapenje
08-04-2012, 02:37 AM
in such event, Fed beats them all actually

I just knew some one will bring up that myth. I'm not saying that he wouldn't win, just saying JesusFed who can't lose a match, and to those guys in that form, is nonsence. In 2006 he lost 4 times to 2006 Nadal. Why wouldn't he lose to 2010 Nadal? Again, i would give them 25% chances each, and let them fight it out. But ofc, that wont happen :sad:

swebright
08-04-2012, 02:38 AM
Back in 2009, he was kinda future number #1. I believe he belongs in top 4, but he may never get back there with his injuries. He had some hip problems today?

Backhand_Maestro
08-04-2012, 02:39 AM
Whoever thinks USO 2009 was a fluke is a moron. I would love to see everyone getting their shit together to see 2009 (USO) Delpo, 2011 Novak and 2010 Rafa in 1 tourney (maybe USO) and it would be fantastic if Fed could roll beck the time and get to 2006 lvl.. Just for 1 tourney guys, then you can go back to getting things done vs less players with 60% of your game.

And 2012 Murray :p

Mark Lenders
08-04-2012, 02:53 AM
Whoever thinks USO 2009 was a fluke is a moron. I would love to see everyone getting their shit together to see 2009 (USO) Delpo, 2011 Novak and 2010 Rafa in 1 tourney (maybe USO) and it would be fantastic if Fed could roll beck the time and get to 2006 lvl.. Just for 1 tourney guys, then you can go back to getting things done vs less players with 60% of your game.

The only interesting matchup there imo would be Djokovic vs Delpo.

Nadal def. Federer

Federer def. Djokovic

Federer def. Del Potro

Djokovic def. Nadal*

Del Potro def. Nadal*


This could be different if Nadal served like USO 2010.


Djokovic vs Del Potro would be the most interesting one imo.

The American commentator (forget who) said Del Potro's running forehand is the best since Sampras. They might be right.

I think he is right. It is an amazing shot; only little problem is that he can't crush low balls with it. But when it's high or even medium height, he will kill them.

rocketassist
08-04-2012, 02:55 AM
The only interesting matchup there imo would be Djokovic vs Delpo.

Nadal def. Federer

Federer def. Djokovic

Federer def. Del Potro

Djokovic def. Nadal*

Del Potro def. Nadal*


This could be different if Nadal served like USO 2010.


Djokovic vs Del Potro would be the most interesting one imo.

I think 2006 Federer beats 2010 Nadal at the US Open to be honest, matchup issue or not

Mark Lenders
08-04-2012, 03:01 AM
I think 2006 Federer beats 2010 Nadal at the US Open to be honest, matchup issue or not

He might beat him on fast hardcourts for sure, but overall advantage Nadal due to their matchup.

That said, if Nadal serves like USO 2010 doubt Federer would beat him anywhere, even indoors to be honest.

Federer loses to Nadal when Rafa is serving like a WTA player; now add tons of free points off serve and do the math, things definitely don't look good for Federer. I have to wonder why Rafa stopped serving like that, he was downright scary in USO 2010.

uxyzapenje
08-04-2012, 03:02 AM
I think 2006 Federer beats 2010 Nadal at the US Open to be honest, matchup issue or not

It doesn't have to be USO, pick an even which you think makes them most evenly matched. Not RG so Rafa>the rest or SW19 Fed>the rest. Some neutral ground...

Litotes
08-04-2012, 05:55 AM
It doesn't have to be USO, pick an even which you think makes them most evenly matched. Not RG so Rafa>the rest or SW19 Fed>the rest. Some neutral ground...

I agree it would be a fun tournament, but I am unsure what place would be most neutral. And is it not only the place. Both US Open and Australian Open were much slower in 2011 - Djokovic' year - than in Federers' year 2006.

Whiznot
08-04-2012, 06:28 AM
Del Potro was never a fluke. Serve. Backhand. Running forehand. Movement. Just needs to stay healthy.

Topspindoctor
08-04-2012, 06:53 AM
Surely after watching his match today against Federer, even some of the doubters/haters who called him a fluke must have understood why/how Del Potro has got his hands on the US Open title, right?

He played an incredible match on his worst surface against the current #1, 7-time Wimbledon champions and his worst matchup on tour to boot. Not only was his hitting incredible, but his mentality too. His effort was nothing short of titanic. It is especially amazing that he is playing tennis of such great quality after everything he's been through, shows what a rare talent he is.

This is how he won a Slam back in 2009: huge yet consistent hitting off both wings, especially the forehand, and great play in clutch situations. It was his career threatening injury and surgery that made him cease to be a top player, not the so called flukish nature of his success.

But he's healthy now and rising again, as this week showed. At 23, he still has plenty of upside. I'm sure some doubters remain (either people who didn't watch the match or pure haters), but I believe this thread will be bumped in the near future as Juan Martin keeps climbing back to the world's top 4 and 'fluking' his way to some more great results.

More convinced than ever that he's a fluke. A 31 year old man spanking prime Del Potro 6 times this year alone like a naughty kid shows what a fluke this clown's USO 2009 was. Imagine 23 year Olderer against 31 year old Delpo :superlol:

Jverweij
08-04-2012, 07:09 AM
this again? Mark, no offense, but I sometimes get the impression you are trying to convince yourself that it wasn't a fluke.

Delpo's USopen was a deserved win, he's a good player, end of story.

cutesteve22
08-04-2012, 07:45 AM
to beat Federer and Nadal in same tournament is never easy.

Burrow
08-04-2012, 01:03 PM
Well, you started talking about Federer not being at his best and him having better footwork/dealing better with big hitters in his prime. It kinda came across (at least to me) as "Let's not overrate Del Potro, it's not like he was playing Federer at his best.".



Well, yes. He wasn't player Federer at his best and he didn't manage to win. That to me, doesn't merit a thread with such content.

superslam77
08-04-2012, 01:15 PM
He might beat him on fast hardcourts for sure, but overall advantage Nadal due to their matchup.

That said, if Nadal serves like USO 2010 doubt Federer would beat him anywhere, even indoors to be honest.

Federer loses to Nadal when Rafa is serving like a WTA player; now add tons of free points off serve and do the math, things definitely don't look good for Federer. I have to wonder why Rafa stopped serving like that, he was downright scary in USO 2010.

bleh nadal has never beated fed on a fast court.


and no delpo failing to get a top 2 medal. just no.

tennizen
08-04-2012, 01:28 PM
No.

Sanya
08-04-2012, 01:44 PM
bleh nadal has never beated fed on a fast court.

Dubai-2006 :wavey:

FairWeatherFan
08-04-2012, 05:16 PM
He's a talentless, ball-bashing clown with an unimaginative game, who fluked his way to a grand slam title and who will never win a grand slam title again. The end.

Roy Emerson
08-04-2012, 05:33 PM
He keeps losing and losing to Roger....

2009 USO final looks like an anomaly.

BigJohn
08-04-2012, 05:40 PM
He keeps losing and losing to Roger....

2009 USO final looks like an anomaly.

Looks like it was a fluke.

Mark Lenders
08-04-2012, 05:42 PM
More convinced than ever that he's a fluke. A 31 year old man spanking prime Del Potro 6 times this year alone like a naughty kid shows what a fluke this clown's USO 2009 was. Imagine 23 year Olderer against 31 year old Delpo :superlol:

So Federer being better than him makes him a fluke :rolleyes:


Well, yes. He wasn't player Federer at his best and he didn't manage to win. That to me, doesn't merit a thread with such content.

But it's not like Djokovic (5-time Slam winner) and Murray (hyped to win Slams) have done any better recently against Federer on grass, is it?


He keeps losing and losing to Roger....

2009 USO final looks like an anomaly.

He had a career threatening injury, which obviously derailed his progress. Had he not had suck bad luck, he'd probably have got a few more wins over Federer (although still lost more often as Federer is a terrible matchup for him and a better player overall too).

BigJohn
08-04-2012, 05:49 PM
So Federer being better than him makes him a fluke :rolleyes:




That is not it. It is the fact he won ONLY ONE big title in his career with not even a Masters win to back it up. That is what this fluke thing is all about.

70-68
08-04-2012, 05:50 PM
I'm convinced that Delpo is as good on grass as Benneteau and almost as good as Haas.

Mechlan
08-04-2012, 06:06 PM
He might beat him on fast hardcourts for sure, but overall advantage Nadal due to their matchup.

That said, if Nadal serves like USO 2010 doubt Federer would beat him anywhere, even indoors to be honest.

Federer loses to Nadal when Rafa is serving like a WTA player; now add tons of free points off serve and do the math, things definitely don't look good for Federer. I have to wonder why Rafa stopped serving like that, he was downright scary in USO 2010.

Isn't it obvious that Nadal was in a serve zone that tournament? If players could play at their best all the time, the tennis landscape would look a lot different.

FiBeR
08-04-2012, 06:07 PM
More convinced than ever that he's a fluke. A 31 year old man spanking prime Del Potro 6 times this year alone like a naughty kid shows what a fluke this clown's USO 2009 was. Imagine 23 year Olderer against 31 year old Delpo :superlol:

iBBz3jfJ5PE

chammer44
08-04-2012, 07:18 PM
The American commentator (forget who) said Del Potro's running forehand is the best since Sampras. They might be right.

Except when he can't get there in time.

Burrow
08-04-2012, 07:33 PM
But it's not like Djokovic (5-time Slam winner) and Murray (hyped to win Slams) have done any better recently against Federer on grass, is it?



What on earth does that have to do with this? I stand by my original point. Del Potro's performance yesterday was far from worthy of opening such a thread.

This thread is also pointless as you're only giving bait to those who say his US Open was a fluke. I have no idea why you're trying to convince unreasonable people. Just ignore what they have to say. Any reasonable person knows that you can't fluke a Grand Slam, you win because you're the best person over the fortnight, regardless of your or others' performance, so why bother?

IOFH
08-04-2012, 08:28 PM
I'm more intrigued about the term "23-year old Olderer". Does this mean a physically prime Federer with the experience and tactical knowledge of 2012-Federer? GOAT! :worship:

MuzzahLovah
08-04-2012, 09:58 PM
Let's talk again after the Bronze Medal match. If he beat Djokovic maybe he'll be a contender for USO. I have my doubts.

Mark Lenders
08-05-2012, 05:35 PM
Let's talk again after the Bronze Medal match. If he beat Djokovic maybe he'll be a contender for USO. I have my doubts.

And so he did it, with an excellent performance, especially in the big moments.

Del Potro doesn't get enough credit for being an amazing tennis player, but especially for being capable of producing such great tennis after enduring a career threatening injury and wrist surgery.

He's shown how good he is and can be on this tournament, hope his comeback keeps picking up steam and he breaks into the top 5/4 soon.

IOFH
08-05-2012, 05:38 PM
And so he did it, with an excellent performance, especially in the big moments.

Del Potro doesn't get enough credit for being an amazing tennis player, but especially for being capable of producing such great tennis after enduring a career threatening injury and wrist surgery.

He's shown how good he is and can be on this tournament, hope his comeback keeps picking up steam and he breaks into the top 5/4 soon.

Sure, and these 2 matched are the best I've seen him play on grass, but I wouldn't be surprised if he reversed form in the HCs and lost to someone like Simon in USO again.

Shinoj
08-05-2012, 05:39 PM
He never was a Fluke/Flash in the Pan in the First Place.

I didnt see the US Open 09 at that time. And Sometime back even i used to think that he is a Flash in the Pan. But i saw the Highlights of US 09 again and realized that You cannot hit the ball at that speed and at that consistency time and again.

He is a Top Player and the results will show once again.

Mark Lenders
08-05-2012, 05:44 PM
Sure, and these 2 matched are the best I've seen him play on grass, but I wouldn't be surprised if he reversed form in the HCs and lost to someone like Simon in USO again.

You wouldn't :eek:?

Consistency is Del Potro's middle name, as his late 2008 and early 2009 campaign shows. Even this year, he has a perfect 39-0 record against guys ranked lower than himself since AO. In top physical condition, it's very unlikely he will be losing to people like Simon at Slams.

Even in his comeback year, that was a rare loss, he lost to Nole and Nadal in the other Slams.

tennis_analyst
08-05-2012, 05:53 PM
Del Potro is amazing to watch. His consistency on ground strokes is what sets him apart from the likes of Berdych and Tsonga who also hit hard. FO match against Federer, he outhit Roger for two sets and then picked an injury. 2009 FO he did the same but then ran out of gas. First set against Nadal in the David Cup final last year was fantastic.

Strangely enough, I think Del Potro's serve for the player of his height is not good enough. I did this analysis awhile ago (http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=198683&highlight=) and it shows that he doesn't win as many cheap points off his serve as he should. This Olympics, though, his serve worked wonderfully.

It will be hard for Del Potro to stay injury-free and his endurance will always be a problem. He looked weary in the match against Roger in the end.

IOFH
08-05-2012, 05:59 PM
You wouldn't :eek:?

Consistency is Del Potro's middle name, as his late 2008 and early 2009 campaign shows. Even this year, he has a perfect 39-0 record against guys ranked lower than himself since AO. In top physical condition, it's very unlikely he will be losing to people like Simon at Slams.

Even in his comeback year, that was a rare loss, he lost to Nole and Nadal in the other Slams.

Hmm perhaps, maybe I still have in mind how he performed well at Wimby last year and everyone was thinking how he would destroy the HCs only to flame out completely. Perhaps he'll get it together this time.

Mark Lenders
08-05-2012, 05:59 PM
Del Potro is amazing to watch. His consistency on ground strokes is what sets him apart from the likes of Berdych and Tsonga who also hit hard. FO match against Federer, he outhit Roger for two sets and then picked an injury. 2009 FO he did the same but then ran out of gas. First set against Nadal in the David Cup final last year was fantastic.

Strangely enough, I think Del Potro's serve for the player of his height is not good enough. I did this analysis awhile ago (http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=198683&highlight=) and it shows that he doesn't win as many cheap points off his serve as he should. This Olympics, though, his serve worked wonderfully.

It will be hard for Del Potro to stay injury-free and his endurance will always be a problem. He looked weary in the match against Roger in the end.

Agree with all of this. Remaining healthy will be the biggest challenge for Juan Martin; if he does that, he's a top player for sure and a contender for Slam titles and the top rankings.


Hmm perhaps, maybe I still have in mind how he performed well at Wimby last year and everyone was thinking how he would destroy the HCs only to flame out completely. Perhaps he'll get it together this time.

It was his comeback year, it was understandable that he struggled at the end of the season. Don't forget this is a guy who has faced surgery and a career threatening surgery, it's remarkable he is back to playing at such a high level.

venky91
08-05-2012, 07:14 PM
While I think Roger gave that match away at the US Open, Del Potro is a good player and when fully healthy is a legit contender at pretty much every event.

Burrow
08-05-2012, 07:38 PM
Agree with all of this. Remaining healthy will be the biggest challenge for Juan Martin; if he does that, he's a top player for sure and a contender for Slam titles and the top rankings.




It was his comeback year, it was understandable that he struggled at the end of the season. Don't forget this is a guy who has faced surgery and a career threatening surgery, it's remarkable he is back to playing at such a high level.

I don't know why you keep saying that this was a career threatening injury. Many tops players have had wrist surgery like Safin, Agassi, Rafter, Connors and Canas had 4 wrist surgeries. Wrist surgeries are on the whole, far less severe than almost any other joint.

Mark Lenders
08-05-2012, 07:42 PM
I don't know why you keep saying that this was a career threatening injury. Many tops players have had wrist surgery like Safin, Agassi, Rafter, Connors and Canas had 4 wrist surgeries. Wrist surgeries are on the whole, far less severe than almost any other joint.

In tennis, a wrist surgery is pretty nasty, as you need it for pretty much every stroke. Still, it'd probably be more accurate to claim that it was an injury that put his career at the highest level at risk.

Even if his career wasn't as risk, his career at the top level surely was.

Commander Data
08-05-2012, 07:44 PM
I personally think that Potro might be the next big thing to hit. he is younger then Nole and Nadal, mentally more hungry and has the game and mind to dominate. would not be surprised he he takes over in the coming years.

MaxPower
08-05-2012, 07:45 PM
It had been more convincing if he actually won (and the final had been much better) but anyone with 2 working eyes could see that Del Potro ruled the baseline game. His power was too much even for Fed to handle.

The issue with Del Potro is his UEs and uneven serving. Just like Berdych and pre-mono Soderling, Del Potro has always had the game to win slams and defeat any player.

Del Potro also had the match vs Federer on his racket but he couldn't clutch it up and take the match. Some luck and some more confidence is all Del Potro needs to take another major. He got the weapons and he got the skills.

His injury shouldn't be blamed anymore. That's in the past now. He needs a Federer-like work ethic and commitment to practice and he will root out those UEs from his game and he could even be a future nr1.

Mark Lenders
08-05-2012, 07:53 PM
It had been more convincing if he actually won (and the final had been much better) but anyone with 2 working eyes could see that Del Potro ruled the baseline game. His power was too much even for Fed to handle.

The issue with Del Potro is his UEs and uneven serving. Just like Berdych and pre-mono Soderling, Del Potro has always had the game to win slams and defeat any player.

Del Potro also had the match vs Federer on his racket but he couldn't clutch it up and take the match. Some luck and some more confidence is all Del Potro needs to take another major. He got the weapons and he got the skills.

His injury shouldn't be blamed anymore. That's in the past now. He needs a Federer-like work ethic and commitment to practice and he will root out those UEs from his game and he could even be a future nr1.

I disagree completely here. Del Potro's problem has never been UEs. Unlike Berdych and Soderling, he plays high % big hitting, hitting hard down the middle until getting a short ball to put away. This is enough to dominate low ranked players easily (unlike Berdych and Soderling who are often victim to shock losses), but his problem against the top players has often been not taking enough risks, playing it too safe. He was far more aggressive this week, more than he had ever been since his comeback. UEs have never been a problem. His serve, yes, it's poor for a big man and needs to keep improving.

His injury isn't blamed for his current losses, but for stunting his development; I'm afraid he can never get back the years he lost, although he's still young and can have a great career regardless.

Burrow
08-05-2012, 08:48 PM
In tennis, a wrist surgery is pretty nasty, as you need it for pretty much every stroke. Still, it'd probably be more accurate to claim that it was an injury that put his career at the highest level at risk.

Even if his career wasn't as risk, his career at the top level surely was.

Even so, in tennis, wrist surgeries which fully heal (or heal as far as any surgery allows), are generally less severe because wrists aren't as dependant in flexibility and movement as a shoulder, knee and hip. Contrary to what you seemingly believe, wrists aren't under as much strain as any other joint. All lower body joints are weight bearing and are dependant on movement, whereas the wrist is to stay locked the vast majority of the time. The most injury prone and serious upper body joint is the shoulder. Once you injure a shoulder as a tennis player, it's only going to be a matter of time before you're back in the operating theater. That's because the most range of movement occurs in the shoulder thus making it more prone to injury, which is a general rule for any joint.

Yes, it was a serious injury, but to constantly hear of this "career threatening injury" is nothing but hyperbole. Tennis players rarely suffer career threatening injuries and many have suffered wrist injuries for them to come back and never reoccur and then there's those like Canas who've had 4 wrist surgeries and have been able to play in between without problems.

Burrow
08-05-2012, 08:50 PM
I disagree completely here. Del Potro's problem has never been UEs. Unlike Berdych and Soderling, he plays high % big hitting, hitting hard down the middle until getting a short ball to put away. This is enough to dominate low ranked players easily (unlike Berdych and Soderling who are often victim to shock losses), but his problem against the top players has often been not taking enough risks, playing it too safe. He was far more aggressive this week, more than he had ever been since his comeback. UEs have never been a problem. His serve, yes, it's poor for a big man and needs to keep improving.

His injury isn't blamed for his current losses, but for stunting his development; I'm afraid he can never get back the years he lost, although he's still young and can have a great career regardless.

It was interesting and surprising for me to see Del Potro return in surprisingly below average physical condition. There was no reason why he couldn't whip himself into incredible physical shape during his time off and come back physically stronger, like Marat Safin did for example.

DJ Soup
08-05-2012, 09:09 PM
More than his serve, I'd rather have him improve his ROS

Alex999
08-05-2012, 09:14 PM
I personally think that Potro might be the next big thing to hit. he is younger then Nole and Nadal, mentally more hungry and has the game and mind to dominate. would not be surprised he he takes over in the coming years.
We've heard this so many times. I dearly like DP but not sure it's gonna happen. I just said in the other thread, do not over hype Murray and I'm saying it again just with another name ... do not over hype DP :)

Eliande
08-05-2012, 10:04 PM
I personally think that Potro might be the next big thing to hit. he is younger then Nole and Nadal, mentally more hungry and has the game and mind to dominate. would not be surprised he he takes over in the coming years.

I do hope so. His tennis is truly spectacular!:)

Mark Lenders
08-05-2012, 10:11 PM
Even so, in tennis, wrist surgeries which fully heal (or heal as far as any surgery allows), are generally less severe because wrists aren't as dependant in flexibility and movement as a shoulder, knee and hip. Contrary to what you seemingly believe, wrists aren't under as much strain as any other joint. All lower body joints are weight bearing and are dependant on movement, whereas the wrist is to stay locked the vast majority of the time. The most injury prone and serious upper body joint is the shoulder. Once you injure a shoulder as a tennis player, it's only going to be a matter of time before you're back in the operating theater. That's because the most range of movement occurs in the shoulder thus making it more prone to injury, which is a general rule for any joint.

Yes, it was a serious injury, but to constantly hear of this "career threatening injury" is nothing but hyperbole. Tennis players rarely suffer career threatening injuries and many have suffered wrist injuries for them to come back and never reoccur and then there's those like Canas who've had 4 wrist surgeries and have been able to play in between without problems.

Yeah, maybe it's a bit hyperbolic, but whenever a player goes through surgery there's always a chance he might never fully recover, so there was a risk. More than the injury itself, the fact that he basically lost two years of his career (one off the tour, the tour trying to come back) has hurt him a lot, at his age those were important development years, not to mention his rivals at the top of the game kept working on their game while he was sidelined.

I agree that it was not the worst injury ever or anything, but it definitely derailed his progress and put his career at the highest level at least at risk. But he seems to be bouncing back, that's what's important.


More than his serve, I'd rather have him improve his ROS

His ROS is alright. The only player whose serve he always seems unable to return properly is Federer, he just can't get a rid of his serve. With none of his younger opponents being a great server, improving his ROS isn't that prioritary, he can return Nole and Nadal's serve just fine.

ersatto
08-06-2012, 12:10 AM
More than his serve, I'd rather have him improve his ROS

Height doesn't basically guarantee great returning. It does guarantee at least effective serving though, which he isn't doing nearly enough. His serve is worse than Federer's for God's sake.


This doesn't mean that Del Potro isn't overrated. The fact that prior to these olympics, some people considered him a 4th contender for the USO shows how overrated this guy is.

He isn't some sort of ubertalented guy. Both Berdych and Tsonga have more talent thhan him. What he does have is a game suited to modern tennis. That is more important than talent.

He is a fluke unless he at least makes another slam final.

The reason people called him a fluke is because if you take away his grandslam, he is nothing special. You couldn't do that with pre 2011 Djokovic. He had several Masters 1000 titles, another grandslam final and a TMC. Del Potro's best title other than his slam is a ATP 500 title.

He is also overrated because as I remember, in early 2011, people were picking him as the guy to break Djokovic's streak (:lol:)

He is hype personified.

stewietennis
08-06-2012, 12:28 AM
His serve is worse than Federer's for God's sake.

What's this really saying? Federer's serve is very good, easily the best of the Top 4 and better than 98% of the tour.

ersatto
08-06-2012, 12:32 AM
What's this really saying? Federer's serve is very good, easily the best of the Top 4 and better than 98% of the tour.

Federer is 6'1''. Del Potro is 6'6''. :lol:

stewietennis
08-06-2012, 01:02 AM
Federer is 6'1''. Del Potro is 6'6''. :lol:

Roddick and Querrey are both taller as well but Federer still has a better serve. Karlovic is taller and has more pace in his serve, but it's still arguable that Federer still has the better serve. So, what's your point?

Looner
08-06-2012, 01:04 AM
I expect JMDP to keep improving all aspects of his game. What is really good to see is how he volleyed against Fed. He is capable of really stepping up each aspect of his game due to TALENT and DESIRE. Not many can call upon both but JMDP certainly can. Hence why he's a challenger for slams or should be in 2013, if not at the USO.

Roddick and Querrey are both taller as well but Federer still has a better serve. Karlovic is taller and has more pace in his serve, but it's still arguable that Federer still has the better serve. So, what's your point?

His point is that (s)he doesn't have one.

ersatto
08-06-2012, 01:12 AM
Roddick and Querrey are both taller as well but Federer still has a better serve. Karlovic is taller and has more pace in his serve, but it's still arguable that Federer still has the better serve. So, what's your point?












http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120623032405/creepypasta/images/c/c9/Edward-Norton-Closing-Laptop.gif

swisht4u
08-06-2012, 02:16 AM
DelPo gave Fed everything he could handle.
He also took out Djokovic on grass today.

These are the owners of the last two slams at Wimbledon, grass is DelPo's worst surface or at least it used to be.

We'll find out more as DelPo is playing Toronto, Cincy and the USO.

The good news is we have a strong top 5 where I'm rating Del Potro to be as of now.

There is more to come, look for it. :wavey:

v-money
08-06-2012, 02:20 AM
I don't think Del Potro winning a slam was really that unlikely considering how he was progressing. I remember watching the Del Potro vs Nishikori USO match in 2008 and the commentators were really selling the two as the next big stars in tennis. They had good reason to think that since Del Potro was still very young and on a 20+ match winning streak at the time.

In 2009 he kept improving, despite early year struggles against the top 4. Then he really gave Fed a scare at RG and if he had won that match he may have captured the title against Soderling. By USO time he was only a slight underdog for his USO match against Nadal and absolutely crushed him. In the final he did benefit from some poor play from Federer but he still played well and finally overcame Federer.

Sure Del Potro's run was unlikely because he hadn't won a big tournament before that but other players have certainly done that. Some even won slams for their first title. I was surprised to see him win but considering how he was progressing, it was meant to happen eventually, even if a bit of luck meant the difference.

Unfortunately for him, he got hurt and now there are at least 4 players that are better than him. I don't think he can find that form again to get past two of them (most likely scenario in a slam draw), considering how dominant and consistent the top players have been. He'll need a lot of luck to capture a second slam, imo.

swisht4u
08-06-2012, 02:40 AM
Unfortunately for him, he got hurt and now there are at least 4 players that are better than him. I don't think he can find that form again to get past two of them (most likely scenario in a slam draw), considering how dominant and consistent the top players have been. He'll need a lot of luck to capture a second slam, imo.


When DelPo is playing well he seems to be unaffected by who he plays or what stage he's on, he has a kind of confidence rarely seen in the game today and all he needs is to be confident. Everything else will follow.

Right now I can't say if there are 4 players better than him, he just broke out of his funk and it's not enough time to say.

I've always believed he can be better than he's ever been, there were many areas he could have improved when winning the USO in 2009.

Mark Lenders
08-06-2012, 02:47 AM
I'd like the poster who said it to explain to me how Berdych is more talented than Del Potro. JMDP hits the ball harder, more consistently, is stronger mentally and even has a better serve. Only thing Tomas has going for him is his movement and the difference ain't that big. I'd love to know how Berdych is more talented than Del Potro, who's a unique talent as far as consistent power tennis is concerned.

I don't think Del Potro winning a slam was really that unlikely considering how he was progressing. I remember watching the Del Potro vs Nishikori USO match in 2008 and the commentators were really selling the two as the next big stars in tennis. They had good reason to think that since Del Potro was still very young and on a 20+ match winning streak at the time.

In 2009 he kept improving, despite early year struggles against the top 4. Then he really gave Fed a scare at RG and if he had won that match he may have captured the title against Soderling. By USO time he was only a slight underdog for his USO match against Nadal and absolutely crushed him. In the final he did benefit from some poor play from Federer but he still played well and finally overcame Federer.

Sure Del Potro's run was unlikely because he hadn't won a big tournament before that but other players have certainly done that. Some even won slams for their first title. I was surprised to see him win but considering how he was progressing, it was meant to happen eventually, even if a bit of luck meant the difference.

Unfortunately for him, he got hurt and now there are at least 4 players that are better than him. I don't think he can find that form again to get past two of them (most likely scenario in a slam draw), considering how dominant and consistent the top players have been. He'll need a lot of luck to capture a second slam, imo.

I mostly agree with those. Not sure about the last part though. Let's imagine you are right and those four players are really an unsurmountable barrier for him: he's considerably younger than those 4, in both age and mileage and in his own generation there's no one even close to him, so he'll end up getting his chances either way.

finishingmove
08-06-2012, 02:55 AM
When DelPo is playing well he seems to be unaffected by who he plays or what stage he's on, he has a kind of confidence rarely seen in the game today and all he needs is to be confident. Everything else will follow.

Right now I can't say if there are 4 players better than him, he just broke out of his funk and it's not enough time to say.

I've always believed he can be better than he's ever been, there were many areas he could have improved when winning the USO in 2009.

Completely agreed. Well said.

leng jai
08-06-2012, 03:06 AM
I'd like the poster who said it to explain to me how Berdych is more talented than Del Potro. JMDP hits the ball harder, more consistently, is stronger mentally and even has a better serve. Only thing Tomas has going for him is his movement and the difference ain't that big. I'd love to know how Berdych is more talented than Del Potro, who's a unique talent as far as consistent power tennis is concerned.



I mostly agree with those. Not sure about the last part though. Let's imagine you are right and those four players are really an unsurmountable barrier for him: he's considerably younger than those 4, in both age and mileage and in his own generation there's no one even close to him, so he'll end up getting his chances either way.

Del Potro has far better mental. Berdych is more "talented" because has better movement and stroke production. When Berydch hits his strokes the power is effortless which is usually a sign of pure technique. When Del Potro hits his forehand he looks like he is trying to hit the cover off the ball. That's the difference.

Mark Lenders
08-06-2012, 03:10 AM
Del Potro has far better mental. Berdych is more "talented" because has better movement and stroke production. When Berydch hits his strokes the power is effortless which is usually a sign of pure technique. When Del Potro hits his forehand he looks like he is trying to hit the cover off the ball. That's the difference.

Fair point. Berdych definitely gets more easy power as a result of perfect technique.

But still, despite Berdych's better technique, Del Potro's forehand is considerably deadlier than his, more powerful and consistent... should we really consider Berdych more talented off the forehand wing (same for backhand really) just because it's a more effortless stroke?

Sapeod
08-06-2012, 05:08 PM
Del Potro = fluke. End of discussion.

Roger gave him the title. Anyone who says or thinks otherwise is wrong. It was very clear that Roger completely screwed up and handed Potro the title. No other way he was winning that.

ogbg
08-06-2012, 05:12 PM
Del Potro = fluke. End of discussion.

Roger gave him the title. Anyone who says or thinks otherwise is wrong. It was very clear that Roger completely screwed up and handed Potro the title. No other way he was winning that.

It seems like you feel the need to bring other players down to feel better about Murray. Del Potro played a fantastic final 3 sets in the US Open final and thoroughly deserved it. I'm with you in hoping that Murray can do the same this year.

Sapeod
08-06-2012, 05:17 PM
It seems like you feel the need to bring other players down to feel better about Murray. Del Potro played a fantastic final 3 sets in the US Open final and thoroughly deserved it. I'm with you in hoping that Murray can do the same this year.
No, I bring them down because it's the truth. It was a fluke. If Potro was anywhere near as good as people say he is, then wouldn't he have already gotten back up to the top of the game? Instead, he can barely beat the top 4 anywhere and he's had plenty of time to do it.

Roger gave away the title, end of story.

BigJohn
08-06-2012, 05:17 PM
It seems like you feel the need to bring other players down to feel better about Murray. Del Potro played a fantastic final 3 sets in the US Open final and thoroughly deserved it. I'm with you in hoping that Murray can do the same this year.

Few people debate del Flukro has talent and won his USO. But since he has not won another slam or even any Master to back up that big win, there are no arguments, not a single one, to call his USO victory anything else than a fluke.

BroTree123
08-06-2012, 05:19 PM
Del Potro = fluke. End of discussion.

Roger gave him the title. Anyone who says or thinks otherwise is wrong. It was very clear that Roger completely screwed up and handed Potro the title. No other way he was winning that.

And you gotta wonder why he doesn't do it against Murray :scratch:

ogbg
08-06-2012, 05:20 PM
Few people debate del Flukro has talent and won his USO. But since he has not won another slam or even any Master to back up that big win, there are no arguments, not a single one, to call his USO victory anything else than a fluke.

Are we calling his victory a fluke or his level of performance a fluke? I agree that he doesn't consistently reach that level of performance, but I believe that the victory was deserved on the day.

LocoPorElTenis
08-06-2012, 05:21 PM
Unfortunately for him, he got hurt and now there are at least 4 players that are better than him. I don't think he can find that form again to get past two of them (most likely scenario in a slam draw), considering how dominant and consistent the top players have been. He'll need a lot of luck to capture a second slam, imo.

Right now that may be true. But Del Potro is younger than the other 4 (just by one year vs Murray and Nole but because of his injury he has much less match hours on his body). Federer will stop being a factor sooner or later and Nadal also seems past his best though it's hard to discount him. Meanwhile, no youngsters seem to be ready to challenge for slams. Del Potro (as well as Murray) should challenge for multiple slams over the next 2-3 years.

decrepitude
08-06-2012, 05:22 PM
I mostly agree with those. Not sure about the last part though. Let's imagine you are right and those four players are really an unsurmountable barrier for him: he's considerably younger than those 4, in both age and mileage and in his own generation there's no one even close to him, so he'll end up getting his chances either way.

You call 16 months "considerable"? As for mileage, he did turn pro 2 years later than Djokovic but the same year as Murray.

BigJohn
08-06-2012, 05:22 PM
Are we calling his victory a fluke or his level of performance a fluke? I agree that he doesn't consistently reach that level of performance, but I believe that the victory was deserved on the day.

I call his victory a fluke since it is a one time occurrence.

Sapeod
08-06-2012, 05:22 PM
And you gotta wonder why he doesn't do it against Murray :scratch:
He plays better on the day, that's why. Andy was winning in Wimbledon, but the momentum slowly turned around and then Roger went on to win. Roger had the momentum, played in JesusFed mode in their other two finals and was too good.

Roger very clearly gave Potro the title. Why anyone else can't see this is beyond me. He choked from a winning position, played badly at important times and handed over the title.

Mark Lenders
08-06-2012, 05:23 PM
No, I bring them down because it's the truth. It was a fluke. If Potro was anywhere near as good as people say he is, then wouldn't he have already gotten back up to the top of the game? Instead, he can barely beat the top 4 anywhere and he's had plenty of time to do it.

Roger gave away the title, end of story.

What are you on about man? He played two titanic matches with Nadal last year at Wimbledon and Davis Cup, with very close losses in both, and won his last two matches against Djokovic. The only top 4 member that has owned him since his comeback is Federer, who's always been a horrible matchup for him; even so, in the last two matches he took him to 5 at Roland Garros and to 19-17 in the decider at the Olympics.

You'd think Murray fans would pipe down a little on this after JMDP basically handed Murray the Olympic gold medal on a platter by completely exhausting Federer physically and mentally.

ogbg
08-06-2012, 05:23 PM
I call his victory a fluke since it is a one time occurrence.

Fluke implies lucky to me, not just rare. The performance was rare, but he deserved to win the match IMO.

misty1
08-06-2012, 05:25 PM
not really

BroTree123
08-06-2012, 05:25 PM
He plays better on the day, that's why. Andy was winning in Wimbledon, but the momentum slowly turned around and then Roger went on to win. Roger had the momentum, played in JesusFed mode in their other two finals and was too good.

Roger very clearly gave Potro the title. Why anyone else can't see this is beyond me. He choked from a winning position, played badly at important times and handed over the title.

I can. But it's funny that all the times that Fed has played Murray, Fed doesn't crumble like he did against DP :shrug:

Mark Lenders
08-06-2012, 05:26 PM
You call 16 months "considerable"? As for mileage, he did turn pro 2 years later than Djokovic but the same year as Murray.

Yes, because Djokovic and Murray have been around for longer and, more importantly, their game relies on movement far more than JMDP's and hence they're bound to decline sooner. When they inevibtaly lose a step in their movement, they'll be affected, JMDP not so much imo. Look at how most power-based players (Tsonga, Berdych, Soderling) are playing their best tennis at 27/28.

BigJohn
08-06-2012, 05:27 PM
Fluke implies lucky to me, not just rare. The performance was rare, but he deserved to win the match IMO.

The not even a Masters' win before or after that big win implies both rare and a bit of luck to me.:)

ogbg
08-06-2012, 05:28 PM
Yes, because Djokovic and Murray have been around for longer and, more importantly, their game relies on movement far more than JMDP's and hence they're bound to decline sooner. When they inevibtaly lose a step in their movement, they'll be affected, JMDP not so much imo.

A counter argument might say that being out for a year due to injury doesn't bode well for longevity.

LocoPorElTenis
08-06-2012, 05:28 PM
You call 16 months "considerable"? As for mileage, he did turn pro 2 years later than Djokovic but the same year as Murray.

16 months is not negligible... as for mileage, he didn't play at all for over a year.

Of course there is a real chance that by the time that Andy and Nole decline some youngster will be cleaning up the slams, but seeing as how Del Potro seems already at almost the same level as the top 4 one has to consider him a serious contender.

ogbg
08-06-2012, 05:29 PM
The not even a Masters' win before or after that big win implies both rare and a bit of luck to me.:)

Can you not make a judgement based on the match itself?

BroTree123
08-06-2012, 05:29 PM
He's a good player but yes it does seem strange that he won USO. And yes it probably does look pretty ugly on his profile. It's just a huge gap between having a slam and the rest of the achievements in his caeer. Oh well, be as it may, but it is what it is. It's not fair to hate him just because he's got a slam, however which way he got it.

BigJohn
08-06-2012, 05:30 PM
Can you not make a judgement based on the match itself?

It's pretty much like when Iva Majoli won the French...

Mark Lenders
08-06-2012, 05:31 PM
A counter argument might say that being out for a year due to injury doesn't bode well for longevity.

This is true, but I don't think a wrist injury affects his longevity as much as, say, a knee injury would. But the fact he's more injury prone than Djokovic could definitely be a factor too.


He's a good player but yes it does seem strange that he won USO. And yes it probably does look pretty ugly on his profile. It's just a huge gap between having a slam and the rest of the achievements in his caeer. Oh well, be as it may, but it is what it is. It's not fair to hate him just because he's got a slam, however which way he got it.

He has been stopped from achieving more by a wrist injury/surgery. His peers and reknowned pundits are unanimous in their assessment that post 2009 tennis would not have been the same with Del Potro in the mix ie we'd have had another legitimate contender for all big titles.

ogbg
08-06-2012, 05:35 PM
This is true, but I don't think a wrist injury affects his longevity as much as, say, a knee injury would. But the fact he's more injury prone than Djokovic could definitely be a factor too.

Hopefully not, but it is an intricate joint which gets a lot of mileage in tennis.

MaxPower
08-06-2012, 07:00 PM
I disagree completely here. Del Potro's problem has never been UEs. Unlike Berdych and Soderling, he plays high % big hitting, hitting hard down the middle until getting a short ball to put away. This is enough to dominate low ranked players easily (unlike Berdych and Soderling who are often victim to shock losses), but his problem against the top players has often been not taking enough risks, playing it too safe. He was far more aggressive this week, more than he had ever been since his comeback. UEs have never been a problem. His serve, yes, it's poor for a big man and needs to keep improving.

His injury isn't blamed for his current losses, but for stunting his development; I'm afraid he can never get back the years he lost, although he's still young and can have a great career regardless.

How can you say he doesn't have a problem when he serves first in a 17-19 lost third set without generating a single matchpoint?

It was pathetic to watch Federer block and slice to the middle of the court and while Del Potro punished him sometimes he missed just as much. That's not a sign of a player in control.

Many games Federers serve was clicking and Delpo UEed so badly Fed could hold easily with 2nd serves and rally shots to the middle. It was honestly kinda pathetic for long stretches.

Del Potro needs to understand that when a top player goes defensive vs him it's more important to not gift away points than to hit winners. Federer, Murray, Nadal, Djokovic are all way to secure to gift him right back if he keeps wasting chances.

The entire 3rd set by Del Potro was a big wasted chance and not because of Federers high level but because Del Potro himself couldn't play with the margins to put pressure on Federer. He served first for gods sake and yet failed to apply pressure because of his errors and wild chance shots. Only time it worked was when Federer served for the match and then for once he could string together a few good shots.

But I honestly lost count on how many 2nd serves and short balls Del Potro just whacked in the net or out. If you serve first in a 3rd set, lose it 17-19 and didn't generate a single matchpoint then you got a big problem stringing together points.

Mark Lenders
08-06-2012, 07:18 PM
How can you say he doesn't have a problem when he serves first in a 17-19 lost third set without generating a single matchpoint?

It was pathetic to watch Federer block and slice to the middle of the court and while Del Potro punished him sometimes he missed just as much. That's not a sign of a player in control.

Many games Federers serve was clicking and Delpo UEed so badly Fed could hold easily with 2nd serves and rally shots to the middle. It was honestly kinda pathetic for long stretches.

Del Potro needs to understand that when a top player goes defensive vs him it's more important to not gift away points than to hit winners. Federer, Murray, Nadal, Djokovic are all way to secure to gift him right back if he keeps wasting chances.

The entire 3rd set by Del Potro was a big wasted chance and not because of Federers high level but because Del Potro himself couldn't play with the margins to put pressure on Federer. He served first for gods sake and yet failed to apply pressure because of his errors and wild chance shots. Only time it worked was when Federer served for the match and then for once he could string together a few good shots.

But I honestly lost count on how many 2nd serves and short balls Del Potro just whacked in the net or out. If you serve first in a 3rd set, lose it 17-19 and didn't generate a single matchpoint then you got a big problem stringing together points.


He does have a problem, but it's not UE. Federer is a death matchup for him: he can never get a good read of the Federer serve and he can't deal with his variation either. In order to beat Federer, he needs to go for more than usual, which brings UE count up of course. Still, I rewatched the Olympic semis and most of the errors were forced, from both sides (Federer and Delpo).

Delpo's problem was that Federer was serving great, and as usual he couldn't get a read on the serve, otherwise he could very well have won. It's no secret he struggles against Federer. Did you watch the bronze medal against Djokovic, he played very well there, extremely clutch on big points too.

Matt01
08-06-2012, 10:29 PM
It's pretty much like when Iva Majoli won the French...


It's nothing like that...

Burrow
08-06-2012, 10:38 PM
Yeah, maybe it's a bit hyperbolic, but whenever a player goes through surgery there's always a chance he might never fully recover, so there was a risk. More than the injury itself, the fact that he basically lost two years of his career (one off the tour, the tour trying to come back) has hurt him a lot, at his age those were important development years, not to mention his rivals at the top of the game kept working on their game while he was sidelined.

I agree that it was not the worst injury ever or anything, but it definitely derailed his progress and put his career at the highest level at least at risk. But he seems to be bouncing back, that's what's important.




His ROS is alright. The only player whose serve he always seems unable to return properly is Federer, he just can't get a rid of his serve. With none of his younger opponents being a great server, improving his ROS isn't that prioritary, he can return Nole and Nadal's serve just fine.

Federer and Nadal certainly never got any better. Djokovic's fitness improved out of nowhere in 2011 and thus the results came. I think the other top dogs certainly benefited from Del Potro's and Davydenko's absence in the latter stages of tournaments. Then Soderling got problems.

Like they had too much competition to begin with...

BigJohn
08-06-2012, 10:38 PM
It's nothing like that...

True. Majoli has 2 Tier 1 tournaments to back her GS win, del Flukro has none.

My bad.

Jaz
08-06-2012, 10:58 PM
Superb player.

Del Potro, when in the groove is the best, and probably most unbelievable player in tennis today. I remember him in the FO 2009 against Federer, really was awesome.