Washington R1: F Serra def. B Baker 4-6 6-3 6-4 [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Washington R1: F Serra def. B Baker 4-6 6-3 6-4

The Prince
07-31-2012, 01:48 AM
Serra really picked up his performance, by the look of the numbers.

misty1
07-31-2012, 01:52 AM
baker is 0-3 on the american hard courts this season.

Freak3yman84
07-31-2012, 01:59 AM
That is sooo embarrassing for Baker. Off the bandwagon sadly...

Sent from my SGH-T989 using VerticalSports.Com App

The Prince
07-31-2012, 02:03 AM
I was never on the bandwagon. He's an okay player, but nothing special. The novelty factor has worn off and now he'll be worked out more readily by opponents.

LastRocket
07-31-2012, 02:03 AM
Losing to Serra :facepalm:

uxyzapenje
07-31-2012, 02:16 AM
He is becoming typical 50-100 ranked player. Few decent results, few stupid loses...

Blue Heart24
07-31-2012, 02:21 AM
:sad: Really bad HC season for Brian so far,I hope he wins some matches in August.

I was never on the bandwagon. He's an okay player, but nothing special. The novelty factor has worn off and now he'll be worked out more readily by opponents.

:lol:
This guy has basically missed his whole career because of injuries up till now,and now he's in top 80 ,which is a miracle by itself.Only his physical limitations because of all those injuries are stopping him to go much further,and that is probably why he will reach top 50 or something like that at most.But he is an incredible tennis talent,his shotmaking and amazing feel for the ball,well,tennis ability tbh is something mugs like Ramos for example can only dream about,so I don't see why are you making such underestimating statements about him.

The Prince
07-31-2012, 04:02 AM
:sad: Really bad HC season for Brian so far,I hope he wins some matches in August.



:lol:
This guy has basically missed his whole career because of injuries up till now,and now he's in top 80 ,which is a miracle by itself.Only his physical limitations because of all those injuries are stopping him to go much further,and that is probably why he will reach top 50 or something like that at most.But he is an incredible tennis talent,his shotmaking and amazing feel for the ball,well,tennis ability tbh is something mugs like Ramos for example can only dream about,so I don't see why are you making such underestimating statements about him.

Eh?

Baker has lost to Korolev this year, as well as Kunitsyn, Rampras & now Florent Serra.

These are acceptable losses for a 70-100 ranked player, like he is, but a couple of good tournaments doesn't make him automatically brilliant. On the flip side, nothing to be too concerned about. If he's really good enough to progress, results will come shortly.

The Prince
07-31-2012, 04:02 AM
And Ramos is more talented than Baker.

Absolute Anthropoid
07-31-2012, 04:09 AM
Mugmos more talented than Baker? Maybe.

Anyway Baker why so muggy? Losing to Serra? :facepalm:

moon language
07-31-2012, 04:13 AM
Baker's losing momentum faster than he gained it. Bummer.

Freak3yman84
07-31-2012, 04:16 AM
Has Baker done well in any tournament where he didn't have to qualify? Maybe that's the solution. Screw the WC's and go through qualifying!

BroTree123
07-31-2012, 06:23 AM
Just retire already :facepalm:

I don't know why this clown bothered to come back :o

kiriri***
07-31-2012, 06:29 AM
Baker:crying2: He can't play on HC:sad:
Hopefully he'll be able to win a match at least once.

pusher for life
07-31-2012, 07:01 AM
Once his Wimbledon and Nice points come off next year, he'll be back where he belongs

CooCooCachoo
07-31-2012, 07:39 AM
OK. I still had faith that he might find his game on hard, but losing to Serra takes the biscuit.

JamieMU30
07-31-2012, 07:42 AM
OK. I still had faith that he might find his game on hard, but losing to Serra takes the biscuit.

The biscuit? :haha: Them is fightin words :wavey:

CooCooCachoo
07-31-2012, 07:45 AM
He looks so defeated in this post-match interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3vsZQLZzS8&feature=g-all-u

samanosuke
07-31-2012, 08:58 AM
:facepalm:

samanosuke
07-31-2012, 09:02 AM
doubt that many people here are aware how tragic, unwatchable and untalented player Serra was even at his peak. that's how tragic is this defeat for Baker

Mercury
07-31-2012, 10:02 AM
Brian :sadface:

Gotta get his groove back on before the big US tournaments begin.

tuek
07-31-2012, 11:19 AM
Surprised at this one. When I last checked the score last night Baker seemed to be well on his way to winning. Wonder what happened - seems he certainly had chances, but only converted 3 of 16 break points, not a good stat. Curse of entry by WC continues.

Did anyone actually see the match? Why the hell were there streams for the crappy wta matches, but none for centre court.

henke007
07-31-2012, 11:25 AM
Way to blow a chance for many points in a 500 with a 250 field and lose to this trash..

Orka_n
07-31-2012, 11:36 AM
Brian :sad:

He will still rise

Looner
07-31-2012, 11:41 AM
What's up with BB. Get your form together, man. I'm sure he will though.

Sham Kay
07-31-2012, 11:43 AM
Now is the perfect time to jump ON the bandwagon.

I'll be cheering for you GOAT of all Brians.

Blue Heart24
07-31-2012, 11:53 AM
Eh?

Baker has lost to Korolev this year, as well as Kunitsyn, Rampras & now Florent Serra.

These are acceptable losses for a 70-100 ranked player, like he is, but a couple of good tournaments doesn't make him automatically brilliant. On the flip side, nothing to be too concerned about. If he's really good enough to progress, results will come shortly.
:confused:
Seems like you didnt even read my post.Or perhaps you didn't understand it.

And Ramos is more talented than Baker.

Laughable statement.MTF at it's best.

samanosuke
07-31-2012, 12:03 PM
And Ramos is more talented than Baker.

this is bannable trolling imo

Henry Chinaski
07-31-2012, 12:09 PM
guy is playing the first real run of tour main draws in his entire career.

shit results are to be expected

Burrow
07-31-2012, 12:27 PM
And Ramos is more talented than Baker.

Can't believe I've just read that.

LastRocket
07-31-2012, 12:41 PM
And Ramos is more talented than Baker.

:facepalm:

The Prince
07-31-2012, 01:00 PM
It's MTF's perception that the more aggressive a player's gamestyle is, the more talented he is. It's laughable logic.

The Prince
07-31-2012, 01:03 PM
:confused:
Seems like you didnt even read my post.Or perhaps you didn't understand it.



Laughable statement.MTF at it's best.

Marko, I read your statement. I know you're a fan of his, and expect a lot, but from the outside, I am sorry to say, his runs are looking more and more like flukes with each of these horrible losses.

Explain to me why it's a laughable statement?

You and a number of others have provided no rationale as to why this is perhaps the case.

Looner
07-31-2012, 01:05 PM
It's MTF's perception that the more aggressive a player's gamestyle is, the more talented he is. It's laughable logic.

It's not a perception. He's proven he's got the talent. You don't own Djokovic and all your peers as a junior if you're just some aggressive player.

The Prince
07-31-2012, 01:09 PM
It's not a perception. He's proven he's got the talent. You don't own Djokovic and all your peers as a junior if you're just some aggressive player.

It is a perception, because every grinder is called a talentless mug, and then every semi-aggressive player with a one-hander or nice shots is called super talented. MTF makes silly assertions sometimes.

Just because he was a top junior, doesn't mean he's super talented.

Blue Heart24
07-31-2012, 01:45 PM
Marko, I read your statement. I know you're a fan of his, and expect a lot, but from the outside, I am sorry to say, his runs are looking more and more like flukes with each of these horrible losses.

I already said in that post why is that the case.His tennis ability is class,but his body unfortunately didn't cope well with the requirements of professional tennis.And all those years he couldnt play are getting back to him.


Explain to me why it's a laughable statement?

You and a number of others have provided no rationale as to why this is perhaps the case.

Because it's completely false.Man,the way Baker hits the ball,you need to be truly talented.That's something you can't learn,it's a natural ability.Anyone who understands tennis can see Baker is a way more talented player,it's a fact.

Snowwy
07-31-2012, 01:48 PM
Brian Baker is not good on hardcourts, he wasn't before his injuries and hasn't been since. We don't really need 3 pages wondering if his runs were flukes, they were on clay and grass. Now we are on hardcourts.

The Prince
07-31-2012, 01:51 PM
I already said in that post why is that the case.His tennis ability is class,but his body unfortunately didn't cope well with the requirements of professional tennis.And all those years he couldnt play are getting back to him.



Because it's completely false.Man,the way Baker hits the ball,you need to be truly talented.That's something you can't learn,it's a natural ability.Anyone who understands tennis can see Baker is a way more talented player,it's a fact.

Well that's his problem if he is injured. We can't give him special dispensation because he doesn't condition well and is injury-prone.

He hits the ball well…………… wow, truly amazing. He's so very talented in that case.

Every player on the ATP hits the ball well. Ramos has supreme talent in the defensive department though. He reads the game so well, has slick movement, great hands at the back of the court to absorb blows. He also has great counter-offensive shots, that can turn a rally around there and then.

Now I'm not saying Baker is NOT talented, but the sympathetic praise he is getting is unjust. He is being made out to be much more than he is.

Mark Lenders
07-31-2012, 01:52 PM
Some fine trolling going on in this thread. Ramos and talented should never be used in the same sentence. He's just a pushing mug with no weapons really.

Baker is infinitely more talented, but I assume most people are aware of that. Even having missed his entire career, he's still likely to achieve more than Mugmos.

Mark Lenders
07-31-2012, 01:53 PM
Well that's his problem if he is injured. We can't give him special dispensation because he doesn't condition well and is injury-prone.

He hits the ball well…………… wow, truly amazing. He's so very talented in that case.

Every player on the ATP hits the ball well. Ramos has supreme talent in the defensive department though. He reads the game so well, has slick movement, great hands at the back of the court to absorb blows. He also has great counter-offensive shots, that can turn a rally around there and then.

Now I'm not saying Baker is NOT talented, but the sympathetic praise he is getting is unjust. He is being made out to be much more than he is.

:worship: :worship: :worship:

BroTree123
07-31-2012, 01:54 PM
Ramos is .....more talented than Mark Lenders.

The Prince
07-31-2012, 01:56 PM
Some fine trolling going on in this thread. Ramos and talented should never be used in the same sentence. He's just a pushing mug with no weapons really.

Baker is infinitely more talented, but I assume most people are aware of that. Even having missed his entire career, he's still likely to achieve more than Mugmos.

The funny thing is, I just say Baker isn't so talented, which is a reasonable thing to say, regardless of whether I'm right or wrong, and that get's people annoyed.

Then you come along and start calling Albert, 'Mugmos' and being irrationally critical, and not a person (bar me) will show any kind of disagreement.

Sad, sad state of affairs on MTF.

Mark Lenders
07-31-2012, 02:03 PM
The funny thing is, I just say Baker isn't so talented, which is a reasonable thing to say, regardless of whether I'm right or wrong, and that get's people annoyed.

Then you come along and start calling Albert, 'Mugmos' and being irrationally critical, and not a person (bar me) will show any kind of disagreement.

Sad, sad state of affairs on MTF.

Saying Baker is overrated is a legit thing to say, whether right or wrong. But compared to Ramos, really? His backhand and return alone are worth more as far as talent is concerned than Ramos's entire game.

I bet that, despite missing his entire career, Baker will still do more in tennis than Ramos. The gulf in talent and ability is just monumental.

The Prince
07-31-2012, 02:09 PM
Saying Baker is overrated is a legit thing to say, whether right or wrong. But compared to Ramos, really? His backhand and return alone are worth more as far as talent is concerned than Ramos's entire game.

I bet that, despite missing his entire career, Baker will still do more in tennis than Ramos. The gulf in talent and ability is just monumental.

I would say that Baker needs to play top 20 tennis for the rest of his career to end up with more prize money and credentials than Ramos will. Albert has nearly three years until he reaches Baker's current age, and he already has twice what Baker has in career earnings.

The Prince
07-31-2012, 02:10 PM
Saying Baker is overrated is a legit thing to say, whether right or wrong. But compared to Ramos, really? His backhand and return alone are worth more as far as talent is concerned than Ramos's entire game.

I bet that, despite missing his entire career, Baker will still do more in tennis than Ramos. The gulf in talent and ability is just monumental.

If the gulf in talent is monumental, why does Ramos routine the likes of Kunitsyn and Korolev, when Baker loses to them?

Mark Lenders
07-31-2012, 02:12 PM
I would say that Baker needs to play top 20 tennis for the rest of his career to end up with more prize money and credentials than Ramos will. Albert has nearly three years until he reaches Baker's current age, and he already has twice what Baker has in career earnings.

Ah could that have something to do with Baker only playing 30 pro matches in his career so far?

Actually, all he needs to do is have a deep run in a Masters 1000 tournament and he will already have had a bigger impact in top level tennis than Ramos ever did. Or even win a 500, which Ramos probably never will either.

Blue Heart24
07-31-2012, 02:15 PM
Well that's his problem if he is injured. We can't give him special dispensation because he doesn't condition well and is injury-prone.

He hits the ball well…………… wow, truly amazing. He's so very talented in that case.

Every player on the ATP hits the ball well. Ramos has supreme talent in the defensive department though. He reads the game so well, has slick movement, great hands at the back of the court to absorb blows. He also has great counter-offensive shots, that can turn a rally around there and then.

Now I'm not saying Baker is NOT talented, but the sympathetic praise he is getting is unjust. He is being made out to be much more than he is.

Have you ever played tennis,amateur or semi serious?I'm not trying to make fun of you,it's a serious question.If you did,you should have a better understanding of talent definition than saying Ramos is more talented than a player like Baker,but I've been explaining same things several times anyway so I think the discussion should end here really.No offense :wavey:

The Prince
07-31-2012, 02:16 PM
Ah could that have something to do with Baker only playing 30 pro matches in his career so far?

Actually, all he needs to do is have a deep run in a Masters 1000 tournament and he will already have had a bigger impact in top level tennis than Ramos ever did. Or even win a 500, which Ramos probably never will either.

Maybes, ifs, buts etc. Injuries are part of the game, and you can't give someone special dispensation because of it. Either Brian didn't condition well, or he is just unlucky. I guess the latter, but even then, you can't make exceptions. You have to judge him like every other player.

At the moment, Baker looks more ineffective than Ramos does. So those runs in a 1000 and the 500 title you are looking for looks far away.

LastRocket
07-31-2012, 02:18 PM
3 bad weeks for Baker is not the end. Ramos is a nobody and will most likely never defeat a top player

The Prince
07-31-2012, 02:19 PM
Have you ever played tennis,amateur or semi serious?I'm not trying to make fun of you,it's a serious question.If you did,you should have a better understanding of talent definition than saying Ramos is more talented than a player like Baker,but I've been explaining same things several times anyway so I think the discussion should end here really.No offense :wavey:

The funny thing is, you've given me no reasons that Baker is talented except for 'he hits the ball well'. It's you that needs to do the explaining, I've laid down the gauntlet.

That's not exactly a debate winner to say that he 'hits the ball well', lol.

And yes I do play tennis, and I play quite a conservative style, and you can still demonstrate talent defensively, not that I do, of course.

Mark Lenders
07-31-2012, 02:20 PM
Maybes, ifs, buts etc. Injuries are part of the game, and you can't give someone special dispensation because of it. Either Brian didn't condition well, or he is just unlucky. I guess the latter, but even then, you can't make exceptions. You have to judge him like every other player.

At the moment, Baker looks more ineffective than Ramos does. So those runs in a 1000 and the 500 title you are looking for looks far away.

Of course not, he will not be handed results just because of his bad luck, and no one is saying he will.

But talent doesn't mean result necessarily. Nalbandian for instance is more talented than many Slam winners, yet he doesn't have a Slam. Baker also has talented that is beyond belief, his backhand, ROS, touch are all things of beauty.

And you don't break into the top 100 after basically losing your entire career if you're not a rare talent.

The Prince
07-31-2012, 02:20 PM
3 bad weeks for Baker is not the end. Ramos is a nobody and will most likely never defeat a top player

So defeating Cilic, Gasquet and Lopez on hard-courts and Verdasco on clay is not defeating top players?

:lol:

Blue Heart24
07-31-2012, 02:23 PM
The funny thing is, you've given me no reasons that Baker is talented except for 'he hits the ball well'. It's you that needs to do the explaining, I've laid down the gauntlet.

That's not exactly a debate winner to say that he 'hits the ball well', lol.

And yes I do play tennis, and I play quite a conservative style, and you can still demonstrate talent defensively, not that I do, of course.

First,read my posts,and learn the difference between hits the ball well and hits the ball THE way he does.
And what is your debate winner? Prize money and results?
As I said,you don't understand at all what talent is.

his backhand, ROS, touch are all things of beauty.

And you don't break into the top 100 after basically losing your entire career if you're not a rare talent.

Maybe that could help.

The Prince
07-31-2012, 02:24 PM
Of course not, he will not be handed results just because of his bad luck, and no one is saying he will.

But talent doesn't mean result necessarily. Nalbandian for instance is more talented than many Slam winners, yet he doesn't have a Slam. Baker also has talented that is beyond belief, his backhand, ROS, touch are all things of beauty.

And you don't break into the top 100 after basically losing your entire career if you're not a rare talent.

Of course, he is a talent. But so is everyone else who is up there.

Baker's good form was a combination of the novelty factor, good tactical play and lots of 'smash and grab'. That as well as some amazing tennis. His style suits it very well.

I apologise to Baker fans if you guys are offended, but understand that my guy Ramos gets it in the heck a hell of a lot more than Brian.

sidneythagovou
07-31-2012, 02:28 PM
Baker is a more talented player than Ramos. He is a very good player in my eyes, but he didnt play a lot of tennis because of injuries and his body does seem to limit him a bit too much. Still, very impressive what he did accomplish already and once he starts to win a match on hardcourt, maybe his confidence on it may rise. He was bad on the grass as well at first, but a couple of matches later made him a lot better.

The Prince
07-31-2012, 02:29 PM
First,read my posts,and learn the difference between hits the ball well and hits the ball THE way he does.
And what is your debate winner? Prize money and results?
As I said,you don't understand at all what talent is.

Marko, I read your posts, mate. Trust me, I really do. You ought to re-read mine though.

I appreciate your articulation in this language hinders you, but you should really make it clearer what you say.

'Hits the ball the way he does'? Is that really anything more?

Nobody hits the ball like Marco Chiudinelli, and peeps will say he's a 'talentless mug', incorrectly I might add (Marco :inlove:).

I understand what talent is, and it doesn't just have to be 'aggressive talent' there can be 'defensive talent' too, which Ramos has in abundance.

As I said, I laid down the gauntlet, and you are yet to come up with a cohesive counter-argument.

The Prince
07-31-2012, 02:33 PM
Well that's his problem if he is injured. We can't give him special dispensation because he doesn't condition well and is injury-prone.

He hits the ball well…………… wow, truly amazing. He's so very talented in that case.

Every player on the ATP hits the ball well. Ramos has supreme talent in the defensive department though. He reads the game so well, has slick movement, great hands at the back of the court to absorb blows. He also has great counter-offensive shots, that can turn a rally around there and then.

Now I'm not saying Baker is NOT talented, but the sympathetic praise he is getting is unjust. He is being made out to be much more than he is.

You obviously got put off by the whole block of text, and missed it!

sidneythagovou
07-31-2012, 02:35 PM
I understand what talent is, and it doesn't just have to be 'aggressive talent' there can be 'defensive talent' too, which Ramos has in abundance.

As I said, I laid down the gauntlet, and you are yet to come up with a cohesive counter-argument.

This I totally agree with. Seems most people only look at the agressive tennis style and quickly call every defensive hit a pusher. I really aprecciate those ''pushers'' those, cause tennis is not only attacking. Everyone has it's own style of play and thats why its so fun to watch

The Prince
07-31-2012, 02:39 PM
This I totally agree with. Seems most people only look at the agressive tennis style and quickly call every defensive hit a pusher. I really aprecciate those ''pushers'' those, cause tennis is not only attacking. Everyone has it's own style of play and thats why its so fun to watch

Cheers.

There is no right or wrong way to play tennis. It would be a boring sport if everyone played the same style. We need variety and continuity of the diverse styles.

Hian-GOAT
07-31-2012, 02:57 PM
Losing to Serra :spit: Officially out of my faves, no one should lose to the Shit.

Blue Heart24
07-31-2012, 03:15 PM
You obviously got put off by the whole block of text, and missed it!

The point is all that doesnt match Baker.Ramos has very little tennis talent and is basing his game on endless rallies and running.You can manufacture tons of players like that.And Baker type players? No.

The Prince
07-31-2012, 03:22 PM
The point is all that doesnt match Baker.Ramos has very little tennis talent and is basing his game on endless rallies and running.You can manufacture tons of players like that.And Baker type players? No.

Why? You make tonnes of statements, but I'm sorry to say you don't back it up.

Blue Heart24
07-31-2012, 03:35 PM
Why? You make tonnes of statements, but I'm sorry to say you don't back it up.

No,you don't,because you don't have a back up.Just ask yourself how many players out there can run and push and grind all day long,and how many can rip returns off the way Baker does and make difficult shots look like they're so bloody easy to do.That's what talents do.

The Prince
07-31-2012, 03:41 PM
No,you don't,because you don't have a back up.Just ask yourself how many players out there can run and push and grind all day long,and how many can rip returns off the way Baker does and make difficult shots look like they're so bloody easy to do.That's what talents do.

You're confusing uniqueness with talent.

And I have provide more rationale for my assertions than you have for yours.

Blue Heart24
07-31-2012, 06:11 PM
You're confusing uniqueness with talent.

And I have provide more rationale for my assertions than you have for yours.

I see there's no point in discussing with you,it's like "trying" to explain to someone that humans need oxygen to survive and he's denying that.None of your "rationale" are valid,saying Ramos is more talented than Baker is simply complete and utter bullshit.If you want to believe that,you can,I don't care.Bye.

The Prince
07-31-2012, 06:14 PM
I see there's no point in discussing with you,it's like "trying" to explain to someone that humans need oxygen to survive and he's denying that.None of your "rationale" are valid,saying Ramos is more talented than Baker is simply complete and utter bullshit.If you want to believe that,you can,I don't care.Bye.

:lol: You still haven't explained why Baker is more talented.

I'm prepared to be proved wrong, but you have not come within a light year of disproving my claims so far.

And arguing with you is frustrating.

Johnny Groove
07-31-2012, 06:21 PM
Ramos will rise. Has more talent than Baker and Federer combined x 10.

jcempire
07-31-2012, 07:16 PM
Baker:crying2: He can't play on HC:sad:
Hopefully he'll be able to win a match at least once.



0-3 after Wimbledon. Is he done for the year? Only one run but is in slam
Not too bad for him so far.

BroTree123
07-31-2012, 07:16 PM
Brian shit fuck Baker

Fucker

Fuck

Fuck.

Suck, fuck, at all.