Will Nadal win another event off of clay? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Will Nadal win another event off of clay?

Honestly
07-20-2012, 09:27 PM
I create this thread on the back of the thread about whether NAdal can still win a slam other than RG. It made me think whether he can win another event off of clay, let alone a slam. He hasn't won a event off of clay since Tokyo 2010 folks. That's almost 2 years ago. Can he still do it, or is he limited to win on clay only these days?

MTwEeZi
07-20-2012, 09:29 PM
He hasn't won a event off of clay since Tokyo 2010 folks. That's almost 3 years ago.

:haha: :haha: :haha: :drink:

Roamed
07-20-2012, 09:29 PM
Tokyo 2010 is actually less than 2 years ago.

Of course he can. He wasn't far off winning 3 slams in a row off-clay at W11, USO 11, AO 12; if Djokovic hadn't been Djokovic 2.0, he probably would have done.

Federer in 2
07-20-2012, 09:31 PM
He will. Way too good not to. If he doesn't win even 1 until this time next year I'll be shocked. Maybe one event out of Tokyo, AO, IW, Miami, and might have a tiny chance at WTF if he can avoid Federer. One of those, or two optimistically.
Hope not though :)

And it's 3 years of course...

Oh, and when he does, get ready for MTF to blame you for anti-jinxing the most hated player :)

Looner
07-20-2012, 09:37 PM
USO is a lock as I've said, general.

Honestly
07-20-2012, 09:39 PM
USO is a lock as I've said, general.

Affirmative General Looner. Nadal will crank up his serve by 20mph out of nowhere and set a new record in ace count on his way to his 2nd USO title.

GSMnadal
07-20-2012, 10:05 PM
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/2010/writers/jon_wertheim/09/13/usopen.50things/p1.rafael-nadal.icon.jpg

Haters. Haters everywhere.

The Fearhand
07-20-2012, 10:48 PM
I wish I could answer YES. But I'm doubtful.

TennisMilan
07-20-2012, 11:00 PM
Yes, I'm sure he will.

TigerTim
07-20-2012, 11:40 PM
sweet jesus, what a stupid question. lets have some more

Will Murray win another title?

Win Federer win another Grand Slam Match?

Will Djokovic have sex with a monkey?

Will Piggy get roased at the YEC?

The answer in all cases is "probably yes", as is this.

buzz
07-20-2012, 11:41 PM
:facepalm:

Mystique
07-21-2012, 08:09 AM
:facepalm:

Chase Visa
07-21-2012, 08:33 AM
lol. Of course he will.

Roy Emerson
07-21-2012, 03:27 PM
Maybe something like a 500 or a 250.

Honestly
07-21-2012, 05:50 PM
Now with that out of the way, lets get back on topic. Lets not forget that Nadal have never defended a title off of clay. Now he hasn't won a title off of clay for almost 2 years. He is even starting to struggle on grass these days. I have no idea why Nadaltards are attacking me for making this thread. It's a perfectly legitimate question.

Does Nadal play any 250 events on hard? Even those titles are hard to come by for him these days. Take Doha for instance. You have the likes of Fed and Tsonga playing there. Even Rosol may show up in these events and challenge Nadal. These are tough guys for Nadal to beat on hard. Of course Nadal can win on hard again, but it's not a lock by any means.

GSMnadal
07-23-2012, 05:17 PM
I really can't see how he won't win another non clay slam, let alone some random mug event

abraxas21
07-23-2012, 05:35 PM
no chance tbh

JMan22
07-23-2012, 05:37 PM
Stupid thread. Of course he'll win another event in his career when you consider he'll still be playing for a few more years.

HKz
07-23-2012, 05:56 PM
Really silly to say non-clay events in general. However, it will be tough, because as I have mentioned before, the ONLY 3 non-clay events that Nadal has won more than once (of course never defended/consecutively) have been Indian Wells, Wimbledon and Canada.. Think about it. While Rafa is certainly much too good not to win another non-clay title especially on a slower surface, it will be difficult either way.

nick the greek
07-23-2012, 06:01 PM
Stupid thread. Of course he'll win another event in his career when you consider he'll still be playing for a few more years.
That's an understatement,putting it mildly.

The Fearhand
07-23-2012, 08:39 PM
Really silly to say non-clay events in general. However, it will be tough, because as I have mentioned before, the ONLY 3 non-clay events that Nadal has won more than once (of course never defended/consecutively) have been Indian Wells, Wimbledon and Canada.. Think about it. While Rafa is certainly much too good not to win another non-clay title especially on a slower surface, it will be difficult either way.

I agree with this.

Lugburz
07-23-2012, 08:51 PM
ofc he will, just being realistic.

Roger the Dodger
07-23-2012, 08:53 PM
Tokyo, Beijing, Doha (with a lucky draw) are the hard court minnows for the pickings. I don't think he'll ever win Dubai again. If he does schedule some slow hardcourt MM tournaments, then yes he has a chance.

tintennis
07-23-2012, 09:08 PM
we will have to wait and see how well he recovers from the injury and how much he commits himself on non-clay surfaces.

Roger the Dodger
07-23-2012, 09:11 PM
Toronto was an open invitation but now, I can't see him win anything on hard this year for sure.
Tokyo - 50-50 chance.

Ash86
07-23-2012, 09:23 PM
He's not playing Tokyo -- he's scheduled to play Beijing where he'll have no chance as Tsonga, Novak and Ferrer are also playing. Maybe even Berdych.

But overall - of course he will. Last year he got to the finals of IW, Miami, Wimbledon, US Open, Tokyo. This year Aus Open. Also got to SF of IW and Miami. He lost to Novak in all the finals bar one - which was to a Murray who probably played one of the best sets of his life in the final set in Tokyo. He's hardly that far off. And Novak's not at invincible level anymore either. He was a few games from the Aus Open title... This idea that he's terrible on HCs is silly - it's just that he's not as good as on clay and ranks behind Murray and Djokovic (Murray only in best of 3 - in best of 5 Nadal probably still has an advantage). He's not as good a HC player as Roger either but the match up means that outdoors you'd fancy him to win (IW anomaly notwithstanding).

He'll win off clay and I'm pretty sure he'll win a slam or two off clay before he's done too.

Freak3yman84
07-23-2012, 09:36 PM
Obviously he can. A better question would be, can Nadal win another indoor event? His last indoor title(and only indoor title) was in 2005 in Madrid...

GSMnadal
07-23-2012, 09:45 PM
Obviously he can. A better question would be, can Nadal win another indoor event? His last indoor title(and only indoor title) was in 2005 in Madrid...

He'll win the WTF before he calls it a day.

Ash86
07-23-2012, 09:48 PM
He'll win the WTF before he calls it a day.

In fact, just to troll MTF he'll win both the US Open and the WTF this year. Would love to see what this board made of that if it ever ended up happening... :devil:

Freak3yman84
07-23-2012, 10:00 PM
He'll win the WTF before he calls it a day.

Probably. I don't know of any other indoor tourney that Nadal can win though.

Fed Muzza Killer
07-23-2012, 10:03 PM
Yes, absolutely.

Stupid question,he's been in the final of last US Open and AO and you think he cant win another title on HC ?!

GSMnadal
07-23-2012, 10:12 PM
Yes, absolutely.

Stupid question,he's been in the final of last US Open and AO and you think he cant win another title on HC ?!

Exactly, he's the second best hardcourter in the world.

Looner
07-23-2012, 10:15 PM
Exactly, he's the second best hardcourter in the world.

Lol.

Johnbert
07-23-2012, 10:16 PM
Exactly, he's the second best hardcourter in the world.

yeah, thats why he won 2 hc-slams compared to fed's 9 and hasn't won a title since almost 2 years on that surface...

GSMnadal
07-23-2012, 10:20 PM
yeah, thats why he won 2 hc-slams compared to fed's 9 and hasn't won a title since almost 2 years on that surface...

I'm talking about now, genius. He has won a hardcourt slam more recently than your boy has :wavey:

What happened when the two met last time at a hardcourt slam? :wavey:

I don't care about the Rotterdams, Shanghais and Miami's of this world. These guys only show their true colours at the slams.

AO? Final, lost to the best hardcourter. Beat Federer on his way.
USO? Final, same as AO
AO 11? Injured, was a lock for at least the final otherwise
USO 10? Champion

Johnny Groove
07-23-2012, 10:24 PM
I think it is more likely that he will than he won't.

Crisstti
07-23-2012, 10:24 PM
What an incredibly stupid question. "Will" he win another non clay event would at least be a valid question, but "can he" just isn't. HE just was last year in the finals of IW, Miami, Wimbledon, US Open, Tokyo, and AO this year. It's beyond obvious that he can.

Looner
07-23-2012, 10:35 PM
What an incredibly stupid question. "Will" he win another non clay event would at least be a valid question, but "can he" just isn't. HE just was last year in the finals of IW, Miami, Wimbledon, US Open, Tokyo, and AO this year. It's beyond obvious that he can.

They're synonyms when used like this. Modular verbs can be used interchangeably in quite a few different contexts. Having said that, it's obvious he can but I hope he won't :angel:.

Johnbert
07-23-2012, 10:36 PM
I'm talking about now, genius. He has won a hardcourt slam more recently than your boy has :wavey:

What happened when the two met last time at a hardcourt slam? :wavey:

I don't care about the Rotterdams, Shanghais and Miami's of this world. These guys only show their true colours at the slams.

AO? Final, lost to the best hardcourter. Beat Federer on his way.
USO? Final, same as AO
AO 11? Injured, was a lock for at least the final otherwise
USO 10? Champion

and you try to tell me the 2nd best hardcourter right now cant win a title in 2 years? :spit:

it's not all about the slams dude. and if so, who cares about the final if you doesn't win the title? fed was also a lot closer to beat djokovic last year at the uso then the 2nd best hardcourt player was. but same thing here, no one cares at all. also these guys want to win if they are on the court. independently if they are playing at miami, indian wells or the us open. and you also think they activate a switch like a machine from "playing a masteres" to "playing a grand slam"? as exampel, haven't you seen the miami final last year? don't tell me, they haven't shown their true colours in that match...

Litotes
07-23-2012, 10:46 PM
Exactly, he's the second best hardcourter in the world.

Funny, that's not what the ranking says. Remove points from grass and clay to get HC points only and you have:

1 Djokovic 7700
2 Federer 6845
3 Murray 5540
4 Nadal 4350

Looner
07-23-2012, 10:58 PM
Funny, that's not what the ranking says. Remove points from grass and clay to get HC points only and you have:

1 Djokovic 7700
2 Federer 6845
3 Murray 5540
4 Nadal 4350

For GSMNadal, events outside slams are not important even though his fave overperforms massively at the majors due to their physical nature and slowed down surfaces.

GSMnadal
07-23-2012, 11:00 PM
and you try to tell me the 2nd best hardcourter right now cant win a title in 2 years? :spit:

it's not all about the slams dude. and if so, who cares about the final if you doesn't win the title? fed was also a lot closer to beat djokovic last year at the uso then the 2nd best hardcourt player was. but same thing here, no one cares at all. also these guys want to win if they are on the court. independently if they are playing at miami, indian wells or the us open. and you also think they activate a switch like a machine from "playing a masteres" to "playing a grand slam"? as exampel, haven't you seen the miami final last year? don't tell me, they haven't shown their true colours in that match...

Funny, that's not what the ranking says. Remove points from grass and clay to get HC points only and you have:

1 Djokovic 7700
2 Federer 6845
3 Murray 5540
4 Nadal 4350

I'm not talking about who's the best at scraping points together at hardcourt events, I'm talking about who's the best. Pick a date, let them prepare and play for your life, best of 5 at the AO/USO. Who would you pick after Djokovic?

zKJCA1UWmQc

Federer?

utm6-dCwM2E

Murray?

Don't think so. If he's not overall the 2nd best hardcourter because of his other results, he at the very least is the second best Bo5 harcourter.

Looner
07-23-2012, 11:05 PM
NID. GSMNadal delivers ubreakable Nadaltard logic. The SFs at the AO are played in possibly the slowest HC conditions and Federer still messed up that match and RN was at his best. Of course, now that RN is beatable and RF will probably play quite well at the USO, RN will lose :rolleyes:.

Fed Muzza Killer
07-23-2012, 11:17 PM
Exactly, he's the second best hardcourter in the world.

no he's not , he had better RESULTS at Slams but he's not better !
you know about slams and how Seed 1 and 2 don't face each other before final , dont you ?!
REAL Final at US OPEN was Fed-Nole match

Honestly
07-23-2012, 11:22 PM
What an incredibly stupid question. "Will" he win another non clay event would at least be a valid question, but "can he" just isn't. HE just was last year in the finals of IW, Miami, Wimbledon, US Open, Tokyo, and AO this year. It's beyond obvious that he can.

That was my bad. I realized after I should have asked 'will' he win another title off of clay. I would have edited it but I can't from my Ipad. It's obvious that he can win another one, but will he?

Honestly
07-23-2012, 11:25 PM
Exactly, he's the second best hardcourter in the world.

This is utter nonsense. Even Mugray is better on hard these days. No ways NAdal is as good as Fed and Djoke on hard. Nadal has never been anything special on hard. He tried his best to adapt to th surface but he will always remain a clay court specialist.

Przemek
07-23-2012, 11:27 PM
Oh man, HC slams are played on surfaces which are more like clay than hardcourt. They are perfect for Nadull's game- slow courts and balloon-like balls. No wonder he is doing great there. That's why I think he will be one of a heavy favourites even for them in upcoming years. But he is still the worst hc player in the top 4 (I would say even one of the worst in the top 10). Piggy will loose in one of the first three matches in the rest of the tournaments this year beside USO.

Gagsquet
07-23-2012, 11:38 PM
On grass yes. If he improves the consistency of his drive and fixes his damn putting.

GSMnadal
07-23-2012, 11:41 PM
Fed/Murray soldiers out in full force when they're being faced with the cold hard facts, Nadal owns their favourites in any big match, regardless of the surface (ok, bar indoor, but then again, we're talking big matches here).

So what if it's a slow court, does it make it any less of a hardcourt? No. Take that discussion to the whine about surfaces thread. The same surfaces where Federer won all his slams, but the surfaces that are all of a sudden different when Nadal wins on them.

Nole Rules
07-23-2012, 11:49 PM
GSMnadal is right. Nadal is the second best hardcourter at the moment. Fed is the best indoors. Murray has more potential than Nadal on hard but he is yet to PROVE that he is a better hardcourter than Nadal.

Looner
07-23-2012, 11:52 PM
GSMnadal is right. Nadal is the second best hardcourter at the moment. Fed is the best indoors. Murray has more potential than Nadal on hard but he is yet to PROVE that he is a better hardcourter than Nadal.

So Nadal's is the 2nd best HC player because he dominates the lower-ranked player on the physical, slow HC of Australia and managed to grind out 2 finals in a row at the USO. Sublime logic there.


Fed/Murray soldiers out in full force when they're being faced with the cold hard facts, Nadal owns their favourites in any big match, regardless of the surface (ok, bar indoor, but then again, we're talking big matches here).

So what if it's a slow court, does it make it any less of a hardcourt? No. Take that discussion to the whine about surfaces thread. The same surfaces where Federer won all his slams, but the surfaces that are all of a sudden different when Nadal wins on them.

Are you perhaps joking or trying to fill in for Matt, CD and a few other tards simultaneously? Fed won all but one of his HC slams on medium to fast HC of Australia (before it was mugged) and the USO. Stop the BS, GSMN.

Singularity
07-23-2012, 11:54 PM
I'm not talking about who's the best at scraping points together at hardcourt events, I'm talking about who's the best. Pick a date, let them prepare and play for your life, best of 5 at the AO/USO. Who would you pick after Djokovic?

They've never met at the USO, so really that matchup is speculation. Given the speed of the AO, Nadal is probably favored at this point. Does consistently outside of the slams count for nothing, or does being great on hardcourt have nothing to do with racking up titles?

paseo
07-23-2012, 11:57 PM
Of course!

http://gifsoup.com/view/334900/of-course-o.gif

Whiznot
07-24-2012, 12:02 AM
Please tell me that those who voted no are willing to gamble. If so, for once in my life I'd pull for the humble bullshit artist!

Matt01
07-24-2012, 12:05 AM
NID. GSMNadal delivers ubreakable Nadaltard logic. The SFs at the AO are played in possibly the slowest HC conditions


It's still a legitimate HC and that is what this thread is about, no? :shrug:

Matt01
07-24-2012, 12:09 AM
Are you perhaps joking or trying to fill in for Matt, CD and a few other tards simultaneously? Fed won all but one of his HC slams on medium to fast HC of Australia (before it was mugged) and the USO. Stop the BS, GSMN.


Rebound Ace has always been a medium (or medium to slow) HC and Plexicushion is not that much different - what are you smoking AGAIN?

ananthd
07-24-2012, 01:31 AM
Before Madrid 12 & Wimb 12, you could have asked the same question of Federer.....

"Can/Will Federer win another event off hard?" Since Roger hadn't won jack on either clay or grass since 2009 Wimbledon(almost 3 years)

We saw what happened then...

Same thing...

Rafa will win atleast one more USO/AO, let alone smaller HC events...

Winning an indoor masters/WTF will be tough unless he brings back the USO 2010 serve and shortens points(not happening)...

Crisstti
07-24-2012, 02:17 AM
This is utter nonsense. Even Mugray is better on hard these days. No ways NAdal is as good as Fed and Djoke on hard. Nadal has never been anything special on hard. He tried his best to adapt to th surface but he will always remain a clay court specialist.

No one is saying career wise he is at this point, but he is now, and has been for a while. That is why he's been in the last two hc slam finals, and Fed has not. Nor Andy. Oh, and the h2h against Fed on hc slams is what, 2-0?.

LinkMage
07-24-2012, 02:57 AM
Stupid question, of course he will. He will get one of his trademark cakewalk draws and his opponents choking left and right like usual. :zzz:

dazed1
07-24-2012, 05:17 AM
Exactly, he's the second best hardcourter in the world.


:facepalm::superlol:

If Federer is physically in good form at USO and play vs Nadal, you will see what destroying is, quote me on this one.

Litotes
07-24-2012, 05:50 AM
I'm not talking about who's the best at scraping points together at hardcourt events, I'm talking about who's the best.


I will remind you that winning YEC and a Masters yield more points than losing two slam finals, not by accident but because this is regarded as a greater achievement. You have your own concept of what matters, fine, I see why you need it - if zero HC titles for Nadal last 12 months need to be construed to be better than Federers six, thanks to personal preferences, one has to be very careful indeed about what can be considered of importance. However, when you discuss with the rest of us you should know that this is not a common view.

Nadal will of course be a dangerous outsider in US Open, if healthy. He will, however, not be favourite to reach the final once again, unless he shows something really good prior to this tournament. He defends quite a bit less HC points now than before last years USO, indicating his form is not as good as then, and he will almost certainly be subject to a more difficult draw than last time, having lost his #2 ranking.

Johnbert
07-24-2012, 06:31 AM
if nadal is 2nd best hardcourter, then murray is also a better grasscourt-player than nadal, no? cause sf and f is better than f and r2, no?

Johnbert
07-24-2012, 06:40 AM
(ok, bar indoor, but then again, we're talking big matches here)

yeah, a wtf-final isn't a big match, you're right...

let's play only 4 tournaments a year, if masters and other tournaments are anyway needless :cool:

HKz
07-24-2012, 06:41 AM
yeah, a wtf-final isn't a big match, you're right...

let's play only 4 tournaments a year, if masters and other tournaments are anyway needless :cool:

The WTF has never been a big tournament for Rafatards.. They claim even if Rafa wins the WTF, it still wouldn't make the WTF "legit" yet does one really think they will omit that Rafa fact won the WTF if he does pick up a title there?

Arkulari
07-24-2012, 06:46 AM
He can and he will but I wish he stopped playing so many HC tournaments, his knees are not made to do it for 2-3 straight months at the time.

Litotes
07-24-2012, 09:25 AM
The WTF has never been a big tournament for Rafatards.. They claim even if Rafa wins the WTF, it still wouldn't make the WTF "legit" yet does one really think they will omit that Rafa fact won the WTF if he does pick up a title there?

If they compare Rafa with Roger, making a case for GOAT, they would be very tempted to omit the WTF even if he should win it twice, as it will never be a "selling argument" in his favor. Rafafans like Johnny Groove, however, will not even be tempted to do so if he never wins it.

duarte_a
07-24-2012, 10:17 AM
Before Madrid 12 & Wimb 12, you could have asked the same question of Federer.....

"Can/Will Federer win another event off hard?" Since Roger hadn't won jack on either clay or grass since 2009 Wimbledon(almost 3 years)


The big difference is Roger plays 1 or 2 grass tournaments each year (depending on his RG performance) and he plays 3 clay tournaments (Madrid, Rome and RG), although he may play MC occasionally.

So Roger has 6 (max) or 4 (min) tournaments outside hard each year.
nadal has 9 (min) tournaments on hard (I'm just counting masters 1000, GS and WTF). nadal usually also plays doha and tokyo/beijing, and sometimes dubai.

So Roger has 6 (max) to nadal's 12 (max) and 4 (min) to nadal's 9 (min).

nadal basically has double the tournaments Roger has to win outside clay. The fact that nadal's resume is heavily clay based when 60% or more of the tournaments he plays are non-clay shows 2 things. Frist how good nadal is on clay and how so "not good" he is outside of it.

To answer the question, yes he can and he almost surely will.

Matt01
07-24-2012, 12:00 PM
I will remind you that winning YEC and a Masters yield more points than losing two slam finals, not by accident but because this is regarded as a greater achievement.


It isn't.

Matt01
07-24-2012, 12:25 PM
Congratulations! Kindergarten arguments, it is, it isn't, it is, it isn't... :worship:


Was only stating the obvious :shrug:

Sorry but anyone who knows a little about tennis knows that is greater and more difficult to reach a Slam final than to win a Masters. In fact the rules were different in the 90s so that you got more points for a Masters title but lots of people complained so that it finally changes.

Now about the WTF title we can talk. Arguably a WTF title could be seen as great (or maybe even tiny little more great whcih I'd disagree with)) than a Slam final. But overall since a Slam final is greater than a winning a Masters it means

2 Slam finals > Masters + WTF


as great an achievment as Monaco being better on clay than Fed?


Not quite, no.

Sophocles
07-24-2012, 12:39 PM
Exactly, he's the second best hardcourter in the world.

No he is not. Don't forget all indoor tournaments are now on hard courts as well.

Judging prowess on a surface solely on recent slam results is disingenuous. Nobody actually does this when they're talking in a natural way about upcoming slams. If for example you take R.G., probably the single most important thing everybody takes into account in estimating a player's chances is how he has done in the rest of the clay season.

Litotes
07-24-2012, 12:47 PM
It isn't.

Not by several Nadal supportes, no, obviously. The important things are those Nadal has most of, right? Wasn't much talk about slam final losses being so valuable back when he was 10 for 12, instead we had high praise of his winning percentage in finals, but some are at least adaptable to new surroundings.

I challenge you to come up with a ranking system you feel would be more representative. We have today:
Slam: 2000 - 1200 - 720 - 360 - 180 - 90 - 45 - 10
WFT: 500 for final win, 400 for SF win, 200 for each group win.
Masters: Half of a slam
ATP 500: Half of a Masters
ATP 250: Half of an ATP500

What would you supplant this structure with? And why do you think the ATP disagrees with you?

Matt01
07-24-2012, 01:02 PM
Not by several Nadal supportes, no, obviously. The important things are those Nadal has most of, right? Wasn't much talk about slam final losses being so valuable back when he was 10 for 12, instead we had high praise of his winning percentage in finals, but some are at least adaptable to new surroundings.

I challenge you to come up with a ranking system you feel would be more representative. We have today:
Slam: 2000 - 1200 - 720 - 360 - 180 - 90 - 45 - 10
WFT: 500 for final win, 400 for SF win, 200 for each group win.
Masters: Half of a slam
ATP 500: Half of a Masters
ATP 250: Half of an ATP500

What would you supplant this structure with? And why do you think the ATP disagrees with you?


Don't act so stupid. I was talking about which achievements are greater, not which get you the most ranking points. Two totally diferent things. Only adding the ranking points obviously doesn't work or do you seriously think that winning four ATP 500s is worth the same as winning a Slam?

:facepalm:

IOFH
07-24-2012, 01:09 PM
It isn't that silly of a question tbh. Nadal has gone what, 20 non-clay tournaments in a row without a title? 25? Anyway, I believe if he continues playing 250's and 500's like he has lately (ie. very rarely), he will win 5 non-clay tournaments still. Maybe 1 slam.

Edit: just saw is was can he win a tournament, which is of course silly. Nadal can realistically win every tournament he enters, except maybe indoors 1000s and WTF. It should be will he win?

Litotes
07-24-2012, 01:20 PM
Don't act so stupid. I was talking about which achievements are greater, not which get you the most ranking points. Two totally diferent things. Only adding the ranking points obviously doesn't work or do you seriously think that winning four ATP 500s is worth the same as winning a Slam?



You're telling me not to act stupid? Well, that's rich. If you don't want to discuss tennis nobody's forcing you. If you do, then we're discussing whether or not Nadal can win another tournament off clay (not if he can lose more finals) and during this discussion the point was raised that he is the second best hardcourter. This claim was then disproven, and your reaction to this was "It isn't". Let ut know if you find an argument somewhere.

Matt01
07-24-2012, 01:33 PM
You're telling me not to act stupid? Well, that's rich. If you don't want to discuss tennis nobody's forcing you. If you do, then we're discussing whether or not Nadal can win another tournament off clay (not if he can lose more finals) and during this discussion the point was raised that he is the second best hardcourter. This claim was then disproven, and your reaction to this was "It isn't". Let ut know if you find an argument somewhere.


Why are you lying?

My "It isn't" was a reponse to something different which I explained in my previous post but you didn't even address that.

And the "other argument" wasn't disproven...

And I don't even need to discuss the question if Nadal can win another title off clay because the answer for that is obvious, too...

Looner
07-24-2012, 01:41 PM
Why are you lying?

My "It isn't" was a reponse to something different which I explained in my previous post but you didn't even address that.

And the "other argument" wasn't disproven...

And I don't even need to discuss the question if Nadal can win another title off clay because the answer for that is obvious, too...

Then :wavey::bigwave:

Johnbert
07-24-2012, 02:06 PM
Don't act so stupid. I was talking about which achievements are greater, not which get you the most ranking points. Two totally diferent things. Only adding the ranking points obviously doesn't work or do you seriously think that winning four ATP 500s is worth the same as winning a Slam?

:facepalm:

so you would rather lose 2 gs-finals than win a masters and the wtf? :confused: don't get me wrong, 2 gs-finals is of course a great achivement, but at the end 2 lost gs-finals is 0 titles. and a masters- and wtf-triumph are 2 titles of the 2nd highest category. so if i would be a tennis pro, i would take the masters and wtf title over 2 lost gs-finals :shrug:

ps: for the big3 guys it's imo easier at the slams in the earlier stages compared to a masters, precisely because they play bo5 there and a upset is less likelier.

Han Solo
07-24-2012, 02:15 PM
It isn't.
For goodness sake. Look at it from the players' perspective for a moment: would a professional rather reach two grand slam finals and lose (hello, Andy...well done: you've doubled that), or pick up the WTF and a Masters title in a season? Really, it's a no-brainer. WINNING two less important tournaments beats LOSING in two finals of more important tournaments.

That being said I appreciate that at times reaching a slam final is MORE DIFFICULT (especially physically) than winning a Masters, for obvious reasons like amount of sets played.

victory1
07-24-2012, 02:27 PM
For goodness sake. Look at it from the players' perspective for a moment: would a professional rather reach two grand slam finals and lose (hello, Andy...well done: you've doubled that), or pick up the WTF and a Masters title in a season? Really, it's a no-brainer. WINNING two less important tournaments beats LOSING in two finals of more important tournaments.

That being said I appreciate that at times reaching a slam final is MORE DIFFICULT (especially physically) than winning a Masters, for obvious reasons like amount of sets played.

Yeah I know, like Federer made all the clay master finals in 2006, 2007, 2008, and 5 Roland Garros finals but Djovokic is considered to have a better clay season last year because he won 2 clay masters event but lost in the semi at the French, with his logic, he is saying Federer had the better clay season and was the better clay player in 2011 because he made the Roland Garros final and beat Djokovic in the semi!:devil: By the way, he better be happy that's how it happened because Djokovic would have handed Nadal a beatdown in 2011. See how draw sometimes works in a player favor?:wavey:

Roy Emerson
07-24-2012, 05:41 PM
For goodness sake. Look at it from the players' perspective for a moment: would a professional rather reach two grand slam finals and lose (hello, Andy...well done: you've doubled that), or pick up the WTF and a Masters title in a season? Really, it's a no-brainer. WINNING two less important tournaments beats LOSING in two finals of more important tournaments.

That being said I appreciate that at times reaching a slam final is MORE DIFFICULT (especially physically) than winning a Masters, for obvious reasons like amount of sets played.

Indeed. It's a no brainer. Give me a YEC and a masters series title over losing 2 slam finals. Anyday. Specially the YEC.

Matt01
07-24-2012, 10:26 PM
That being said I appreciate that at times reaching a slam final is MORE DIFFICULT (especially physically) than winning a Masters, for obvious reasons like amount of sets played.


It has nothing to do with things like amount of sets played. Slams are on a totally different compared to TMS or WTF as far as prestige or tradition are concerned.

And I also don't look at it from a player's perspective. I look at it as a neutral observer.

Singularity
07-24-2012, 10:45 PM
It has nothing to do with things like amount of sets played. Slams are on a totally different compared to TMS or WTF as far as prestige or tradition are concerned.

And I also don't look at it from a player's perspective. I look at it as a neutral observer.
Well, when you look at Federer's records, do you take his 17 slams, say "that's a great achievement", and then proceed to add his seven slam finals? I don't think so. Beyond a certain point, reaching slam finals doesn't matter any more.

Say Murray reaches two more finals and loses both in straight sets. Do we feel he's cemented his status as the best by reaching two more finals?

Reaching a slam final is a great achievement, in that it shows an elite level of play. But it's still not a victory.

Looner
07-24-2012, 10:56 PM
The ATP award 40% less points to a losing finalist for a reason. The reason, however, escapes Matt's field of rationality.

Matt01
07-24-2012, 11:01 PM
Well, when you look at Federer's records, do you take his 17 slams, say "that's a great achievement", and then proceed to add his seven slam finals? I don't think so. Beyond a certain point, reaching slam finals doesn't matter any more.

Say Murray reaches two more finals and loses both in straight sets. Do we feel he's cemented his status as the best by reaching two more finals?

Reaching a slam final is a great achievement, in that it shows an elite level of play. But it's still not a victory.


Reaching a Slam final is a great victory no matter if you win or lose it.
Murray is a great example actually. Are his greatest achievements his x Masters title he has? No, his biggest, most memorable matches were the Slam finals he reached. Those were his biggest moments and matches of his career (and so far he lost all of them, unfortunately). He needs to make more Slam finals to get more opportunities to win the biggest prize in tennis, a Grand Slam.

Matt01
07-24-2012, 11:03 PM
The ATP award 40% less points to a losing finalist for a reason. The reason, however, escapes Matt's field of rationality.


I already explained why the ranking points have very little to do with greatness or GOATness however somehow that escaped you.

jerrard
07-24-2012, 11:07 PM
Reaching a Slam final is a great victory no matter if you win or lose it.
Murray is a great example actually. Are his greatest achievements his x Masters title he has? No, his biggest, most memorable matches were the Slam finals he reached. Those were his biggest moments and matches of his career (and so far he lost all of them, unfortunately). He needs to make more Slam finals to get more opportunities to win the biggest prize in tennis, a Grand Slam.

Reaching a final is a great victory only if you haven't won a slam yet.

Looner
07-24-2012, 11:13 PM
Matt is so good at explaining things only he believes. Vamos :inlove:.

IOFH
07-24-2012, 11:14 PM
Reaching a Slam final is a great victory no matter if you win or lose it.
Murray is a great example actually. Are his greatest achievements his x Masters title he has? No, his biggest, most memorable matches were the Slam finals he reached. Those were his biggest moments and matches of his career (and so far he lost all of them, unfortunately). He needs to make more Slam finals to get more opportunities to win the biggest prize in tennis, a Grand Slam.

They are his greatest failures certainly, but after 4 finals getting there isn't that memorable. Certainly he would take a WTF or Miami before another Slam final loss?

Matt01
07-24-2012, 11:15 PM
Reaching a final is a great victory only if you haven't won a slam yet.


An if you have won a Slam already, winning a TMS is great, outstanding achievement? Not really, no.
Reaching a Slam final is always great because it gets you a(nother) chance to win a Slam title.

Han Solo
07-24-2012, 11:24 PM
It has nothing to do with things like amount of sets played. Slams are on a totally different compared to TMS or WTF as far as prestige or tradition are concerned.

And I also don't look at it from a player's perspective. I look at it as a neutral observer.
I agree that slams are more important, and that the prestige adds pressure and therefore makes the challenge that much more difficult. But it still doesn't alter the fact that WINNING tournaments in the second tier of events beats LOSING finals in the slams. I really don't understand how one can't see that, whether player or observer, supporter or fan.

Are you a NEUTRAL observer?

Singularity
07-24-2012, 11:26 PM
Reaching a final is a great victory only if you haven't won a slam yet.
I think that's my point, really. Each time Murray reaches a final it's a huge deal, because of the potential to win a slam. But if he never actually wins one, looking back on his career, I doubt it would make a big difference whether he contested 6 slam finals or 8 slam finals. On some level, failure is still failure.

And I think we respect Murray's abilities because of his outstanding record at masters events (on hardcourts). That's why there's a sense that he's missing something.

An if you have won a Slam already, winning a TMS is great, outstanding achievement? Not really, no.
Reaching a Slam final is always great because it gets you a(nother) chance to win a Slam title.
Not individually, but consistent domination of a surface is impressive. Would Djokovic's 2011 season be as highly regarded if he had won 0 instead of 5 masters? Was Nadal's 8th consecutive Monte Carlo meaningless compared to his slam victories?

Matt01
07-24-2012, 11:31 PM
I agree that slams are more important, and that the prestige adds pressure and therefore makes the challenge that much more difficult. But it still doesn't alter the fact that WINNING tournaments in the second tier of events beats LOSING finals in the slams. I really don't understand how one can't see that, whether player or observer, supporter or fan.

Are you a NEUTRAL observer?


Well, I'm trying to be as neutral as possible :shrug:

And I even admitted that a WTF win could arguably be seen as a greater achievement than reaching a Slam final.
But a TMS win greater? Just no! And since I already gave my arguments in this thread I guess we have to agree to disagree.

Matt01
07-24-2012, 11:33 PM
Not individually, but consistent domination of a surface is impressive. Would Djokovic's 2011 season be as highly regarded if he had won 0 instead of 5 masters? Was Nadal's 8th consecutive Monte Carlo meaningless compared to his slam victories?


Those are different things. I was speaking generally and generally a Slam final is a bigger thing in tennis than winning TMS final.

Honestly
07-24-2012, 11:44 PM
Guys I think NAdal can do it but there is a possibility he won't. It's been almost 2 years since his last title off of clay, and he is not getting younger and fitter. What do you think will be his best chances at a title off of clay in the near future?

I don't know his schedule but he isn't winning Cincy or the USO. In fact I don't see him winning a title until year end. What about 2013? When will his first good chance at a HC title be?

Han Solo
07-24-2012, 11:48 PM
Anyway, to go back to the original thread question - I would be VERY surprised if Nadal never won another title off clay, nor never reached another non-clay slam final (which it seems some see as more important than winning titles..!)

I'd go further and say I would be very surprised if he didn't win another slam outside RG. He's too good of a player not to, as was proven in 2008-9 and 2010. He's just recently turned 26, and still should be at his peak.

Of course his supporters will be worried with his latest injury setback, but I'm dubious as to how serious it will prove in his future performances (based on injury problems in the past, he's usually come back strongly).

Freak3yman84
07-24-2012, 11:49 PM
Guys I think NAdal can do it but there is a possibility he won't. It's been almost 2 years since his last title off of clay, and he is not getting younger and fitter. What do you think will be his best chances at a title off of clay in the near future?

I don't know his schedule but he isn't winning Cincy or the USO. In fact I don't see him winning a title until year end. What about 2013? When will his first good chance at a HC title be?

IW or Miami :shrug:

Matt01
07-24-2012, 11:53 PM
Guys I think NAdal can do it but there is a possibility he won't. It's been almost 2 years since his last title off of clay, and he is not getting younger and fitter. What do you think will be his best chances at a title off of clay in the near future?

I don't know his schedule but he isn't winning Cincy or the USO. In fact I don't see him winning a title until year end. What about 2013? When will his first good chance at a HC title be?


I don't really see him winning a HC tourney this year either but next year I see little reason why he wouldn't...HCs in Doha and AO (where he reached final this year) at the beginning of next year already should suit him well.

Han Solo
07-24-2012, 11:54 PM
Guys I think NAdal can do it but there is a possibility he won't. It's been almost 2 years since his last title off of clay, and he is not getting younger and fitter. What do you think will be his best chances at a title off of clay in the near future?

I don't know his schedule but he isn't winning Cincy or the USO. In fact I don't see him winning a title until year end. What about 2013? When will his first good chance at a HC title be?

He was pretty close to winning AO at the start of this season, taking Djokovic to the wire. If he sorts out his injury issues (whatever they actually are) I see no reason why he can't win it in 2013, especially if he avoids Djokovic.

Do we think that his recent victories against Djokovic, even though on clay, will mean he has a better chance against him at AO next time around?

Honestly
07-24-2012, 11:54 PM
IW or Miami :shrug:

This year he made the final of neither. I don't think he is winning either of those events in all honesty. Djoker, Fed, Murray, Delpo, Rosol, just too many guys that can take him down. I think he is more likely to win a 250 event.

Honestly
07-24-2012, 11:56 PM
I don't really see him winning a HC tourney this year either but next year I see little reason why he wouldn't...HCs in Doha and AO (where he reached final this year) at the beginning of next year already should suit him well.

I dunno Matt01, Doha draws a pretty tough field. As for winning the AO I just don't see it happening again.

Freak3yman84
07-24-2012, 11:57 PM
This year he made the final of neither. I don't think he is winning either of those events in all honesty. Djoker, Fed, Murray, Delpo, Rosol, just too many guys that can take him down. I think he is more likely to win a 250 event.

he could have made the finals in Miami, but he withdrew. And I can't think of any HC 250 that Nadal plays besides Doha, which has a really strong field with Fed and a 32 draw which makes it easy to play a very good opponent...

Honestly
07-25-2012, 12:01 AM
He was pretty close to winning AO at the start of this season, taking Djokovic to the wire. If he sorts out his injury issues (whatever they actually are) I see no reason why he can't win it in 2013, especially if he avoids Djokovic.

Do we think that his recent victories against Djokovic, even though on clay, will mean he has a better chance against him at AO next time around?

Very good question. I think it depends on what happens on hard courts now until the end of the year. IF NAdal can capatalize on those wins and get wins over Djoker on HC I think it will help his cause. But I don't see that happening. Especially since Nadal is injured and seems low on confidence. I think Djoker wins the next few matches on HC.

Roy Emerson
07-25-2012, 12:02 AM
An if you have won a Slam already, winning a TMS is great, outstanding achievement? Not really, no.
Reaching a Slam final is always great because it gets you a(nother) chance to win a Slam title.

Winning the YEC is better than losing a slam final.

Singularity
07-25-2012, 12:03 AM
Those are different things. I was speaking generally and generally a Slam final is a bigger thing in tennis than winning TMS final.
Well, there's more at stake in a grand slam final, slams get more coverage, arguably the level of play is higher overall, so reaching the final is seen as a massive accomplishment.

The question is still: how do you compare victories outside slams, to slam semis or finals? Because presumably, winning things in tennis matters. And IMO, when you look at a players resume, you add up their titles, not their finals. That doesn't mean that it wasn't a bigger deal reaching the slam final; it means that it can't be evaluated with the other achievements, because it's not a victory.

The context of this thread is GSMnadal saying "lets ignore everything that happens outside of the slams, including victories because slams are what actually count". And I think that's unreasonable. Slams do not replace all other events, and consistent performance on a surface matters. That's the sense in which the Djokovic example is relevant.

Honestly
07-25-2012, 12:07 AM
Winning the YEC is better than losing a slam final.

Correct.

mystic ice cube
07-25-2012, 12:26 PM
I'd rate his chances at about 80%, so that's a resounding yes.

TigerTim
07-25-2012, 12:39 PM
but Pico IS a better clay courter than Fed

Pico will win 2014 RG, Ferrer 2013; BOOK IT!

bounccer
07-25-2012, 01:42 PM
I wouldn't count Nadal out in any tournament until he retires, never understimate the heart of a champion, never.

Fed Muzza Killer
07-25-2012, 01:48 PM
Rebound Ace has always been a medium (or medium to slow) HC and Plexicushion is not that much different - what are you smoking AGAIN?


LOL !

Rebound Ace and Plexicushion are Day and Night !

why are you trying to embarras your self matt ?

Fed Muzza Killer
07-25-2012, 01:53 PM
No seriously , i don't give a damn shit about being a Tard , but to tell Plexicushion and Rebound Ace are not so much different is just Pure Non-Sense B.S !!!
i mean , come on !!!

Matt01
07-25-2012, 01:56 PM
LOL !

Rebound Ace and Plexicushion are Day and Night !

why are you trying to embarras your self matt ?


They're both hardcourt, no? :shrug:
What are the big differences, expert?

Fed Muzza Killer
07-25-2012, 02:03 PM
They're both hardcourt, no? :shrug:
What are the big differences, expert?

:facepalm:

Thread/

Matt01
07-25-2012, 02:10 PM
OK no answer as expected :silly:

Looner
07-25-2012, 02:11 PM
OK no answer as expected :silly:

I think FMK is in a state of temporary shock due to the stupidity of that claim.

Honestly
07-25-2012, 11:33 PM
I'd rate his chances at about 80%, so that's a resounding yes.

Most of you say the same thing but where does NAdal's next title off of clay come? Which event?

Han Solo
07-25-2012, 11:55 PM
Most of you say the same thing but where does NAdal's next title off of clay come? Which event?
I could see him winning AO 2013, especially if he avoids Djokovic. May win an event before that although it's unlikely, especially if his injury problems are as serious as he and Tio are making out to the press.

rocketassist
07-25-2012, 11:58 PM
OK no answer as expected :silly:

Plexicushion is a lot slower and higher bouncing. Rebound Ace was medium (not dead fast) but low bouncing.

Matt01
07-26-2012, 12:11 AM
Plexicushion is a lot slower and higher bouncing. Rebound Ace was medium (not dead fast) but low bouncing.


Thanks :yeah:

So they're both medium to slow HCs like I said.

rocketassist
07-26-2012, 12:16 AM
Thanks :yeah:

So they're both medium to slow HCs like I said.

Rebound Ace was medium, Plexicushion is slow. HCs they may be but they're nothing alike in speed.

The Prince
07-26-2012, 12:21 AM
The poll options are a bit lame. I voted 'yes, absolutely' but I wouldn't say my faith in him winning another non-clay event is that profound. He could get a couple more. Doubt they will be Grand Slams though.

Matt01
07-26-2012, 12:21 AM
Rebound Ace was medium, Plexicushion is slow. HCs they may be but they're nothing alike in speed.


I don't think Plexicushion is THAT slow while RA is medium to slow so they are not identical but quite similar in speed.

Looner
07-26-2012, 12:25 AM
I don't think Plexicushion is THAT slow while RA is medium to slow so they are not identical but quite similar in speed.

The rest of the tennis world unfortunately disagrees completely.

HKz
07-26-2012, 12:26 AM
Thanks :yeah:

So they're both medium to slow HCs like I said.

Lol? What kind of grouping is that. OK. Clay and indoors hardcourts are fast to slow courts. No differences of course.

Matt01
07-26-2012, 12:29 AM
Lol? What kind of grouping is that. OK. Clay and indoors hardcourts are fast to slow courts. No differences of course.


:stupid: There's a difference between clay and hardcourts you know. RA and Plexi are both HC so they're more similar by definition.

rocketassist
07-26-2012, 01:27 AM
I don't think Plexicushion is THAT slow while RA is medium to slow so they are not identical but quite similar in speed.

They are nothing alike in speed/bounce. Plexi is high bouncing/slow, RA is medium paced but low bouncing (which benefits attacking players like Safin, Gonzalez, Haas who excelled in the final few years of the RA era)

HKz
07-26-2012, 01:28 AM
:stupid: There's a difference between clay and hardcourts you know. RA and Plexi are both HC so they're more similar by definition.

More similar, but they are clearly different. Just as an example, I have played at Indian Wells Tennis Garden a few years back (outside courts of course..) and the ball there jumps like a mother, yet the courts at the club I play at here in Arizona cause the balls to skid really aggressively. There is certainly a really big adjustment and disadvantage/advantage for different players. Movement may be the same, but I personally would certainly prefer to play at my club as my one-handed backhand works much better yet there are plenty of others who would prefer such courts at Indian Wells.

swisht4u
07-26-2012, 01:36 AM
Nadal will win off of clay, just a matter of time.
He'll have his chances at the USO too.

Sri
07-26-2012, 03:19 AM
Of course he will. He's been making most of the slam finals anyway. If you can do that, it's just a matter of one good match. And you saw how close he was on AO'12 although that is an extremely slow hard court.

Honestly
07-27-2012, 12:54 AM
Of course he will. He's been making most of the slam finals anyway. If you can do that, it's just a matter of one good match. And you saw how close he was on AO'12 although that is an extremely slow hard court.

He's not winning the AO again though, or the USO. He is done winning HC slams. He could have a Wimby title left in him but that's a big could. He can win 2 more FO and 1 Wimby. Then he's done.

Say Hey Kid
07-27-2012, 02:37 AM
I'm not a Nadaltard at all, very far from it. Yet, I have to seriously question why a moderator hasn't locked this thread.

Nadal is still a top 4 player in the world on all surfaces. He is the defending runnerup in the two hardcourt grandslams.

YES, he can still win a title off the clay!

Will he? In all likely hood he will unless he retires within the next year.

nastoff
07-27-2012, 02:38 AM
2013-if the world hasn't ended by then

Sri
07-27-2012, 03:20 AM
He's not gonna be the favorite for AO or USO, that I agree.

But it is also a fact that he made the finals of both these slams, and AO was a close fifth set match.

It would be stupid to completely write him off, unless he has a major career threatening injury and he's not the same guy after return.

However the kind of injury he's suffering, he has a proven record of making quick successful comebacks.

dazed1
07-27-2012, 06:35 AM
Nevermind.

JennyS
07-27-2012, 07:13 PM
It's interesting how Nadal's hardcourt titles have all come in bursts, followed by long droughts.

Won 2 Masters and 2 other HC tournaments over 7 months (August 05-Feb 06).
During the next 2 1/2 years, won only one HC title (Indian Wells 07)
Won the Aussie, two Masters, and the Olympics over a 9 month span (July 08 to March 09)
Goes a year and a half without a hardcourt title.
Wins the US Open in dominant fashion, then wins Tokyo, his first fall title in 5 years.
Goes up to 2 years without a hardcourt title.

Honestly
07-28-2012, 03:56 AM
It's interesting how Nadal's hardcourt titles have all come in bursts, followed by long droughts.

Won 2 Masters and 2 other HC tournaments over 7 months (August 05-Feb 06).
During the next 2 1/2 years, won only one HC title (Indian Wells 07)
Won the Aussie, two Masters, and the Olympics over a 9 month span (July 08 to March 09)
Goes a year and a half without a hardcourt title.
Wins the US Open in dominant fashion, then wins Tokyo, his first fall title in 5 years.
Goes up to 2 years without a hardcourt title.

Interesting facts Jenny. But is NAdal on the decline? This Wimby 2nd round loss could be telling. Not sure he has ever lost this early in a slam. I think he will win another HC title but you can't be sure. Maybe he will just win on his strength clay from here on and one on grass as well?

Honestly
07-28-2012, 03:58 AM
I'm not a Nadaltard at all, very far from it. Yet, I have to seriously question why a moderator hasn't locked this thread.

Nadal is still a top 4 player in the world on all surfaces. He is the defending runnerup in the two hardcourt grandslams.

YES, he can still win a title off the clay!

Will he? In all likely hood he will unless he retires within the next year.

It was supposed to read will he win another event off of clay. I can't edit the thread from my Ipad. It's obvious he can, but there is a chance he won't.

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
07-28-2012, 06:16 AM
It was supposed to read will he win another event off of clay. I can't edit the thread from my Ipad. It's obvious he can, but there is a chance he won't.

Well apple products suck ass
My $100 laptop that's 5 years old is a much cleaner browser than my iPad

In bed (like now) I use my 4s
It's terrible
On android there's a typing app called Swype that u can't get for apples- once you've had a Swype enabled phone it's real hard to use this fucking shit keyboard iPhones have


The galaxy s3 looks hideous so I wouldn't touch that with a barge pole

Apple phone are shit but they look sexy

Android phones all look cheap and plastic

analysist
07-28-2012, 06:31 AM
We are talking a player who 's still USO and AO finalist.If Djoker is not there, who is favorite against him in final? Federer, absolutely no, Murray no ? or Rosol? Wait he must pass third round first.

TBkeeper
07-28-2012, 06:37 AM
Hey guys can you please make a list of all the HCs and write next to them which are which Plexicusion or Rebound Ace ?

Litotes
07-28-2012, 07:01 AM
We are talking a player who 's still USO and AO finalist.If Djoker is not there, who is favorite against him in final? Federer, absolutely no, Murray no ? or Rosol? Wait he must pass third round first.

That is true. Six months ago he was also a W finalist, IW finalist and Miami finalist. But so far this year, all non-clay finals from 2011 have dropped off and no fresh ones have arrived since January. Not a positive tendency for him, and one he will have to change if he wants to win anything.

Litotes
07-28-2012, 07:54 AM
Wait for the US Open ejacusites. I will tell you why:


Death rides a horse.

Even if correct (which I am not ceding) why would that be a reason? I don't think any of the current top players are afraid of horses.

analysist
07-28-2012, 08:05 AM
That is true. Six months ago he was also a W finalist, IW finalist and Miami finalist. But so far this year, all non-clay finals from 2011 have dropped off and no fresh ones have arrived since January. Not a positive tendency for him, and one he will have to change if he wants to win anything.
In fact , he just lost one hard court match after AO ,hence I don't think it's a negative tendency for him.

Litotes
07-28-2012, 08:10 AM
In fact , he just lost one hard court match after AO ,hence I don't think it's a negative tendency for him.

Well, if you think his grass form is entirely separate from his HC form then I understand you. It will be interesting to see how he does when he comes back.

Fed fordawin
07-28-2012, 09:00 AM
Depends if he's willing to play Valencia (and if Monaco is injured).

Fed fordawin
07-28-2012, 09:01 AM
In fact , he just lost one hard court match after AO ,hence I don't think it's a negative tendency for him.

well he played 2 hard court tournaments after AO, none of which he won or reached the final. So you can't make it a positive tendancy either.

analysist
07-28-2012, 09:12 AM
well he played 2 hard court tournaments after AO, none of which he won or reached the final. So you can't make it a positive tendancy either.

The fact is that he just lost one match, eventually to the champion. He still made the semi-final in Miami and withdrew due to injury, hence that tendency is nothing to panic about.
It's not difficult to understand that he's a little bit tired playing Halle almost right away after FO final. And even if he doesn't win anything to the end of this year, I won't count him out. We all know that MTF have a short memory. He was no factor after FO 2009 to the end of that year. People counted him out, and we all know what happened in 2010. People said he will fade out soon since 2006 because of his style, but I don't buy that shit for a second. He 's still 26 years old and he still runs like a rabbit now. He just needs a rest and everything will be ok again, I'm sure he'll win many more hard court titles sooner or later.

Punky
07-28-2012, 09:20 AM
yes he will but i don't see him winning MS on HC at the moment, maybe if he will give up on one clay event or in AO.
i don't see him winning USO or non clay title in 2012

Matt01
07-28-2012, 12:50 PM
Hey guys can you please make a list of all the HCs and write next to them which are which Plexicusion or Rebound Ace ?


The list for Rebound Ace would be rather short...

Honestly
07-28-2012, 04:18 PM
Well apple products suck ass
My $100 laptop that's 5 years old is a much cleaner browser than my iPad

In bed (like now) I use my 4s
It's terrible
On android there's a typing app called Swype that u can't get for apples- once you've had a Swype enabled phone it's real hard to use this fucking shit keyboard iPhones have


The galaxy s3 looks hideous so I wouldn't touch that with a barge pole

Apple phone are shit but they look sexy

Android phones all look cheap and plastic

Thanks for the info. Some things about the Ipad is annoying. I bought a keyboard with the Ipad for $100 though so that makes it better. Didn't like the touch screen keyboard. Was thinking about buying an Iphone but not sure if I will. I was wondering about the keyboard and now you confirm that it's shit.

Honestly
07-28-2012, 04:19 PM
We are talking a player who 's still USO and AO finalist.If Djoker is not there, who is favorite against him in final? Federer, absolutely no, Murray no ? or Rosol? Wait he must pass third round first.

I'd say Fed is the favorite at the USO. He could even beat him at the AO.

Honestly
07-28-2012, 04:22 PM
Even if correct (which I am not ceding) why would that be a reason? I don't think any of the current top players are afraid of horses.

:haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::drink:

henke007
03-17-2013, 12:42 PM
Congrats on the first HC title in a while Dull it took even more then Murray had going for him at the US OPEN:worship:

GSMnadal
03-17-2013, 12:43 PM
Congrats on the first HC title in a while Dull it took even more then Murray had going for him at the US OPEN:worship:

Could you be more bitter?

superslam77
03-17-2013, 12:44 PM
Congrats on the first HC title in a while Dull it took even more then Murray had going for him at the US OPEN:worship:

rafull is dull :o

no doubt about it old sport.

70-68
03-17-2013, 12:52 PM
I will blame Murray Nole Birdshit and Gulbis if this happens today.

Mountaindewslave
03-17-2013, 05:01 PM
Congrats on the first HC title in a while Dull it took even more then Murray had going for him at the US OPEN:worship:

really? because Murray got extremely fortunate weather for his game

Nadal has only gotten help as far as Federer having a back problem which probably wouldn't have changed the outcome either way

I'm actually happy that it pains you this much haha

Mountaindewslave
03-17-2013, 05:04 PM
I will blame Murray Nole Birdshit and Gulbis if this happens today.

nothing to blame, Murray and Novak weren't playing that well anyway, definitely not NID that they would have won against him, in sport players out of form or who don't play well enough lose, that's life

Dark Knight
03-17-2013, 05:09 PM
He should unless Del Potro pulls off another great performance.

acionescu
03-17-2013, 07:13 PM
Could you be more bitter?


I suspect he could :lol:

TheShowMustGoOn
03-17-2013, 07:17 PM
Congrats on the first HC title in a while Dull it took even more then Murray had going for him at the US OPEN:worship:del Potro is going to win it.

SheepleBuster
03-17-2013, 07:55 PM
There is no god damn way on satan's green earth that Nadal wins any more slams. Once he loses to his master in RG, it is all downhill from there.

janko05
03-17-2013, 08:01 PM
Nadal will win IW. There's no doubt about it now..if there was ever any

GSMnadal
03-17-2013, 08:02 PM
Jinxers everywhere, sad little bunch

janko05
03-17-2013, 08:12 PM
Jinxers everywhere, sad little bunch

what's the matter? cold feet? maybe we should start a thread about Nadal's third IW title as we did about Novak yesterday?

Allez
03-17-2013, 08:14 PM
There is no god damn way on satan's green earth that Nadal wins any more slams. Once he loses to his master in RG, it is all downhill from there.

Surely you're not as bitter as all that :lol:

When he wins RG, you'll be like...no way he is winning on grass ever again...and so on and so forth. Drop it and accept the reality of the situation :haha:

born_on_clay
03-17-2013, 08:59 PM
I hope he will tonight :angel:

Looner
03-17-2013, 10:01 PM
Even if he wins here, it should not count. It was another gift from the ATP for the cheater.

Roy Emerson
03-17-2013, 11:34 PM
Nope. Never again. :lol:

abraxas21
03-17-2013, 11:36 PM
Definitely yes, and a lot more than one.

I hate Nadal but there's one thing to admire about him: his motivation and perseverance.

August
03-17-2013, 11:45 PM
No. If he gets a mug draw, he may win a grass event but by the time of the final, any grass court is a clay court.

NadalesDios
03-18-2013, 12:50 AM
Nope. Never again. :lol:

What?

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

TheShowMustGoOn
03-18-2013, 12:51 AM
Congrats on the first HC title in a while Dull it took even more then Murray had going for him at the US OPEN:worship:

del Potro is going to win it.Your jinxing is not on my level.

born_on_clay
03-18-2013, 12:58 AM
:lol: at all the haters

evilmindbulgaria
03-18-2013, 12:59 AM
Even if he wins here, it should not count. It was another gift from the ATP for the cheater.

:rolls::rolls::rolls: Poor butthurt Federinatard, MTF did not miss you and your worthless opinions at all during your exile! Please, crawl back to your hole and remain there for the good of humanity!

Only a delusional tennis "fan" would think Rafa will never win again outside of clay.

Enjoy, haters :devil:

End da Game
03-18-2013, 01:00 AM
the only thing that stopped him from winning anything else off clay after 2010 was djokovic, after today, that still remains the case

The Fearhand
03-18-2013, 01:03 AM
Oh the tears, those crying sweet sweet tears.

GSMnadal
03-18-2013, 01:16 AM
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmqnb5zUT61qaw9slo1_500.gif

Topspindoctor
03-18-2013, 01:39 AM
6HC masters, 2 slams, countless finals. What a mug HC career :(

Honestly
03-18-2013, 01:46 AM
I forgot about this thread. Thought there was a real possibility Nadal won't win another HC event. So congrats to him. His comeback has been nothing short of spectacular. Defies belief almost.

Mountaindewslave
03-18-2013, 01:47 AM
the only thing that stopped him from winning anything else off clay after 2010 was djokovic, after today, that still remains the case

I agree that Djokovic is his biggest wall on hard court but that said the sport is about more than 2 players so not really his fault that the tour is full of hard courters with no balls
it should be noted though, that somehow
Del Potro > Djokovic < Nadal
so possibly Djokovic is not the only one who can stop him, or better yet that Djokovic is not as unstoppable on hard as some people like to pretend

Honestly
03-18-2013, 01:52 AM
If Delpo hadn't beaten the two best players in the world I think he would have won here. He was clearly tiring towards the end there. I think he actually started tiring in the 2nd set after he was a break up. Just one too many matches for him.

GSMnadal
03-18-2013, 02:02 AM
No, Nadal just raised his game. Couldn't be more clear. Instead of hitting it before the service line he was hitting it close to the baseline. Yeah, good luck returning those consistently.

Kiedis
03-18-2013, 02:08 AM
Honestly, what a fail poster.

ProdigyEng
03-18-2013, 02:10 AM
Fedtards writing off Nadal as usual :spit:. I didn't think Nadal was gonna win IW, but I knew he'd win a title off Clay for sure..

Honestly
03-18-2013, 02:13 AM
No, Nadal just raised his game. Couldn't be more clear. Instead of hitting it before the service line he was hitting it close to the baseline. Yeah, good luck returning those consistently.

Yes Nadal raised his game I agree. But do you think Delpo was not tired at all after beating Murray and Djokovic both in tough three set matches?

Mountaindewslave
03-18-2013, 02:17 AM
No, Nadal just raised his game. Couldn't be more clear. Instead of hitting it before the service line he was hitting it close to the baseline. Yeah, good luck returning those consistently.

you're delusional if you didn't see that Del Potro was playing much better than Nadal and hitting through him.
Nadal was lucky that Juan got tired.
but definitely physical well being and fitness is part of the game
Rafael deserves the win but Del Potro would have won if he had the energy.
it wasn't Nadal playing amazing that turned the tide in his favor, it was Del Potro slowing down and running out of power.
Nadal is and always has been a grinder even on hard court, and while he's more aggressive than the past, like usual the match depends on the ability of the opponent to keep their level up... or down
in this case Del Potro tired and went down

Honestly
03-18-2013, 02:23 AM
you're delusional if you didn't see that Del Potro was playing much better than Nadal and hitting through him.
Nadal was lucky that Juan got tired.
but definitely physical well being and fitness is part of the game
Rafael deserves the win but Del Potro would have won if he had the energy.
it wasn't Nadal playing amazing that turned the tide in his favor, it was Del Potro slowing down and running out of power.
Nadal is and always has been a grinder even on hard court, and while he's more aggressive than the past, like usual the match depends on the ability of the opponent to keep their level up... or down
in this case Del Potro tired and went down

An unbiased Nadal fan :worship:

GSMnadal
03-18-2013, 02:27 AM
you're delusional if you didn't see that Del Potro was playing much better than Nadal and hitting through him.
Nadal was lucky that Juan got tired.
but definitely physical well being and fitness is part of the game
Rafael deserves the win but Del Potro would have won if he had the energy.
it wasn't Nadal playing amazing that turned the tide in his favor, it was Del Potro slowing down and running out of power.
Nadal is and always has been a grinder even on hard court, and while he's more aggressive than the past, like usual the match depends on the ability of the opponent to keep their level up... or down
in this case Del Potro tired and went down

And you're not giving Nadal enough credit as usual. Weren't you saying I was overhyping him in Vina, then in Sao Paulo, then in Acapulco and now again in Indian Wells? The man is playing great tennis right now and he beat Del Potro by hitting deep and playing aggressively, not simply by outgrinding him waiting for Dpot to tire.

Rafa couldn't hit a first serve from 3-0 up, couldn't hit past the service line. Yeah, it;s easy to blast winners off that. Del potro's level went down because Nadal didn't give him anything to attack. He tired, but only because Nadal made him run from left to right dominating play.

He would've tired no matter what matches he played before that.

ProdigyEng
03-18-2013, 02:29 AM
Nadal was lucky? :spit:

stewietennis
03-18-2013, 03:09 AM
This thread can be closed now

Kyle_Johansen
03-18-2013, 03:12 AM
Nadal played better in the 2nd half but there's no denying Delpo started slowing down.

And seriously, if you think Rafa isn't 100% now, you're delusional. He was defending great today.

Honestly
03-18-2013, 03:21 AM
Nadal played better in the 2nd half but there's no denying Delpo started slowing down.

And seriously, if you think Rafa isn't 100% now, you're delusional. He was defending great today.

:lol: Understatement of the century. He was defending like fucking Superman.

BroTree123
03-18-2013, 03:25 AM
2 years. Good try anyway.

Roy Emerson
03-18-2013, 03:39 AM
I see pigs flying...

tektonac
03-18-2013, 03:45 AM
not sure who can deal with his moonballing on slow HCs? so he'll win some more.

leng jai
03-18-2013, 03:47 AM
After today's result I can say without hesitation that the answer is no.

Honestly
03-18-2013, 03:53 AM
After today's result I can say without hesitation that the answer is no.

:lol:

born_on_clay
03-18-2013, 07:21 AM
here you are haters :lol:

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7716/rafalr.jpg

Dark Knight
03-18-2013, 07:35 AM
here you are haters :lol:

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7716/rafalr.jpg

Rafa is back.:rocker:

Jagermeister
03-18-2013, 06:25 PM
Looking at the poll results, there's at least 24 people that need to eat a big giant s**t taco after yesterday's result. Don't forget to brush.

Nathaliia
03-18-2013, 06:38 PM
i think only peak serena williams can defeat him
no man can't.

Honestly
03-18-2013, 08:08 PM
here you are haters :lol:

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7716/rafalr.jpg

Who's hating? :scratch:

And where is my other thread?

evilmindbulgaria
03-18-2013, 09:50 PM
Looking at the poll results, there's at least 24 people that need to eat a big giant s**t taco after yesterday's result. Don't forget to brush.

:lol: Those are the same bitter haters who have been writing Rafa off since 2009. Boy, oh, boy how great does it feel to watch them wriggle in pain and helpless anger! There is nothing they can do, Rafa is back winning titles and bitchslapping their beloved Rogie :devil:

Topspindoctor
03-18-2013, 09:52 PM
:lol: Those are the same bitter haters who have been writing Rafa off since 2009. Boy, oh, boy how great does it feel to watch them wriggle in pain and helpless anger! There is nothing they can do, Rafa is back winning titles and bitchslapping their beloved Rogie :devil:

:yeah: Nose getting spanked by Nadal was the biggest highlight of the tournament followed by Fedtards backtracking crying that it was "prime Nadal" in IW playing against Olderer while being cocky in WWW thread before the match :spit::haha:

born_on_clay
03-18-2013, 11:06 PM
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/617/masters.png

zeleni
03-18-2013, 11:09 PM
of course he will.

born_on_clay
03-18-2013, 11:12 PM
too popular these days as well :

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/8040/18699854.png

Kyle_Johansen
03-18-2013, 11:38 PM
:lol: Those are the same bitter haters who have been writing Rafa off since 2009. Boy, oh, boy how great does it feel to watch them wriggle in pain and helpless anger! There is nothing they can do, Rafa is back winning titles and bitchslapping their beloved Rogie :devil:

And how many haters and fools are there on here who say that Federer will never win another Slam or Masters? Or how many said he'd never get back to #1 and then he did?

VamosRafaNadal
03-19-2013, 01:09 AM
After today's result I can say without hesitation that the answer is no.

:lol: Yes, I agree: no more titles for Rafa outside clay...





















... but if he meets Tommy Haas in the final :lol:

Honestly
03-19-2013, 02:30 AM
too popular these days as well :

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/8040/18699854.png

:yeah:

Johnny Groove
03-19-2013, 02:35 AM
After IW 2013, yes, and more than one.

SerialKillerToBe
03-19-2013, 02:40 AM
Okay, so Nadal just won a tournament on high bouncing blue clay. When do you guys think he'll be able to snatch a hard court tournament, if ever?

Honestly
03-19-2013, 02:55 AM
Okay, so Nadal just won a tournament on high bouncing blue clay. When do you guys think he'll be able to snatch a hard court tournament, if ever?

Well IW is not as slow as Miami but yeah dull can't win a HC event on fast hard to save his life.

Matt01
03-19-2013, 03:45 AM
Well IW is not as slow as Miami but yeah dull can't win a HC event on fast hard to save his life.


Acccording to haters like you there is no fast HC tournament left so how exactly is he supposed to win one? :scratch:

rocketassist
03-19-2013, 03:49 AM
Acccording to haters like you there is no fast HC tournament left so how exactly is he supposed to win one? :scratch:

He has won one in 2006- Dubai. Cincinnati is the only other fast outdoor hard left.

evilmindbulgaria
03-19-2013, 04:53 AM
He has won one in 2006- Dubai. Cincinnati is the only other fast outdoor hard left.

You don't consider Shanghai fast?

Chase Visa
03-19-2013, 05:51 AM
You don't consider Shanghai fast?

Nadal never won Shanghai IIRC.

evilmindbulgaria
03-19-2013, 06:20 AM
Nadal never won Shanghai IIRC.

I never said he did. I was referring to rocketassist's comment about no fast outdoor hardcourt tournaments except Dubai and Cincy.

GSMnadal
03-19-2013, 08:07 AM
He has won one in 2006- Dubai. Cincinnati is the only other fast outdoor hard left.

Nadal's olympic gold medal disagrees

skittleball
03-19-2013, 09:06 AM
Acccording to haters like you there is no fast HC tournament left so how exactly is he supposed to win one? :scratch:

That boy is never satisfied. Clearly states in the thread title asking if Nadal will win an event off clay.

Nadal wins IW and suddenly the courts are not fast enough even though it's not clay.

That boy is never satisfied. You got your answer boy.

Kiedis
03-19-2013, 09:17 AM
Acccording to haters like you there is no fast HC tournament left so how exactly is he supposed to win one? :scratch:

There are fast HC tournaments until Nadal wins it. Being as he has a victory in pretty all tournaments then barely are any. If Rafa wins a HC event is only because cement magically become blue clay. You should know this, mate.

Sombrerero loco
03-19-2013, 10:28 AM
this thread got a huge FAIL after nadal´s title on IW, gotta love some comments from the first few pages from delusional haters :tape:

Avi14
03-19-2013, 10:35 AM
Okay, so Nadal just won a tournament on high bouncing blue clay. When do you guys think he'll be able to snatch a hard court tournament, if ever?

LOL Miami is slower than IW.So,as per your logic Rafa must love to play there.

Stop being butt hurt that the Djoker lost.If Rafa had lost here then you would have posted that he can't play on hard courts.Just because Rafa won you are referring to IW as high bouncing blue clay???

bouncer7
03-19-2013, 10:44 AM
this thread got a huge FAIL after nadal´s title on IW, gotta love some comments from the first few pages from delusional haters :tape:

HUGE FAIL is life motto of every fedtard here :)

Ackms421
03-19-2013, 12:29 PM
Nadal's olympic gold medal disagrees

2008 Olympics is the best Nadal has played on fast hard courts. Those matches were amazing.

Chair Umpire
03-19-2013, 12:39 PM
He will never win Wimbledon, he will never win a HC slam, he will never win Federer out of clay tournaments, blah, blah, blah,...

Fedtards and other haters never get tired of being exposed by Ra7a.

born_on_clay
03-19-2013, 07:03 PM
Okay, so Nadal just won a tournament on high bouncing blue clay. When do you guys think he'll be able to snatch a hard court tournament, if ever?

:lol: at how delusional you are :lol:

Honestly
03-20-2013, 11:39 PM
:lol: at how delusional you are :lol:

Not THAT delusional born off clay. There are very few fast hard courts left these days if any. The next challenge for Nadal must be to win a HC event on fast hard. Then we know he is the real deal.

born_on_clay
03-22-2013, 02:37 PM
Not THAT delusional born off clay. There are very few fast hard courts left these days if any. The next challenge for Nadal must be to win a HC event on fast hard. Then we know he is the real deal.

every tournament Rafa wins becomes a slow one in MTF haters' eyes :shrug:

Once Rafa wins Cici, WTF etc. it will become slow hardcourt. Mark my words.

Marcoo
03-22-2013, 02:58 PM
NOt one, but many. I'm sure he can win something in other courts as well :)

Chair Umpire
03-22-2013, 03:00 PM
Not THAT delusional born off clay. There are very few fast hard courts left these days if any. The next challenge for Nadal must be to win a HC event on fast hard. Then we know he is the real deal.


Rafa has achieved way more things on HC than Federina on clay. :shrug: