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Judio
07-18-2012, 10:34 AM
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orangehat
07-18-2012, 10:40 AM
:facepalm:

duong
07-18-2012, 10:40 AM
That's what they do for other sports :shrug:

Yes, tennis has to realize that the Olympics are made for all sports and you have to suffer some of the other sports' rules.

The same for the hard national rules to be qualified for the Olympics (which Kohlschreiber and Rochus escaped from in the last minute, and which are even much harsher in some other sports).

The same for the doping tests as well ;) ... except that they won't have to suffer the out-of-competition doping tests like in other sports because it's not during the Olympics and tennis has chosen to be much "softer".

manadrainer
07-18-2012, 10:40 AM
It's not fixing, it's giving some rules to the draw, like they do in the uefa champions' league draw in soccer.

rocketassist
07-18-2012, 10:41 AM
Good decision if true. Keeping countrymen apart is a good thing. Keeps the Spaniards, Wawrinka, Troicki etc from bowing down meekly to their masters.

dencod16
07-18-2012, 10:46 AM
Its a country sport more than anything so they should be separated as much as possible, this is a good decision by the Olympics.

Apemant
07-18-2012, 10:49 AM
If there are two players or doubles teams from the same country, they will be drawn in opposite halves of the draw.
If there are three or more players/teams from the same country, they will be drawn in different quarters of the draw.

:eek::eek:

I don't see anything problematic about it. :shrug:


All draws are already being 'fixed' by the 'seeding'. Meaning, you just place seeds #1 and #2 on the opposite sides, then you draw #3 and #4 in such a way they can't be in the same half, and then you draw #5, #6, #7, #8 each in one of the quarters etc. So, the draw is already 'fixed' - i.e. it is not *completely* random. This stuff above only adds further non-randomness; and since Olympics are based on the concept of 'nations', this looks like a good idea to me. It will still be pretty random as a whole, just not as random as usual tennis tournaments.

Why are you so shocked about it, actually? :scratch:

Kiedis
07-18-2012, 11:14 AM
I like it. In football there are a similar rule.

atennisfan
07-18-2012, 11:32 AM
The OP is such fail.

What's wrong with the rules? It's so normal

Looner
07-18-2012, 11:34 AM
It's one event, jeez. Let's hope the Spanish are not successful in laying down an easy, peasy QF, SF and F for their idol.

n8
07-18-2012, 11:36 AM
Maybe 'fixing' was the right word, but Judio is still one of the most valuable career posters on MTF.

Federer in 2
07-18-2012, 11:42 AM
Ok, then Nadal can't be with Ferrer and Djokovic can't be with Tipsy. This increases Fed's chance to be with one of them.
Good deal :)

duarte_a
07-18-2012, 11:43 AM
The OP is such fail.

What's wrong with the rules? It's so normal

It's not normal in tennis. I don't even know if they did this back in 2008?! Anyone?

But it isn't reason enough to get shocked.

abollo
07-18-2012, 11:45 AM
That happens in ITF tournaments all the time

Litotes
07-18-2012, 11:48 AM
It's not normal in tennis. I don't even know if they did this back in 2008?! Anyone?


They did the same in 2008. For example, Robredo and Canas was in section 1, Ferrer and Monaco in section 2, Almagro and Nalbandian in section 3 and Nadal and Calleri in section 4.
No section has two equal flags. Check for yourself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennis_at_the_2008_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Men%2 7s_singles#Draw

paseo
07-18-2012, 11:52 AM
It's broken?

orangehat
07-18-2012, 11:54 AM
It's still stupid. Just seed according to seeds and leave the else to chance.

If you wanna separate the seeds, that's still debatable, but not every single player :facepalm:

duarte_a
07-18-2012, 11:56 AM
They did the same in 2008. For example, Robredo and Canas was in section 1, Ferrer and Monaco in section 2, Almagro and Nalbandian in section 3 and Nadal and Calleri in section 4.
No section has two equal flags. Check for yourself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennis_at_the_2008_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Men%2 7s_singles#Draw

Thanks for the info.

buzz
07-18-2012, 11:57 AM
Good, they shouldn't make an exception for tennis.

Litotes
07-18-2012, 11:57 AM
Interestingly, they did not do this in 1992. Sampras and Chang were in the same quarter. As were Gustafsson and Edberg:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennis_at_the_1992_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Men%2 7s_Singles#Draw

In 1996 this was the established norm and has been ever since.

duong
07-18-2012, 11:58 AM
Ok, then Nadal can't be with Ferrer and Djokovic can't be with Tipsy. This increases Fed's chance to be with one of them.
Good deal :)

yes but it could be Djokovic-Ferrer and Nadal-Tipsy in the end :p

Looner
07-18-2012, 11:59 AM
Tipsy's not bad on grass at all. I reckon he won't an easy obstacle for RN.

Thunderfish8
07-18-2012, 12:02 PM
You guys are looking at this from the wrong perspective.

The way most of you see it, it is unfair to the individual players who are competing for the coveted medals. While this is true, it is also irrelevant.

The Olympics are meant to be a country vs. country event. Players are technically on a team with their countrymen. The way this should be looked at is an advantage for Spain, the United States and basically every other country except those who only have one representative such as Uzbekistan.

What they want to do is give every country the greatest possible chance of getting a medal.

Imagine how unfair it would be if Fish/Isner, Roddick, and Harrison were all drawn in the same immediate section of the draw (obviously isner and fish cannot be that close together cuz of seeding). The United States would be at a significant disadvantage because at least 2 of their players would have to lose before the third round.

Looner
07-18-2012, 12:03 PM
While that is somewhat true, having all your atheletes in one section also gives them a better chance to progress from it. So your thinking is only half-right.

MuzzahLovah
07-18-2012, 12:06 PM
This about representing countries, not individual players. :facepalm:

MuzzahLovah
07-18-2012, 12:07 PM
While that is somewhat true, having all your atheletes in one section also gives them a better chance to progress from it. So your thinking is only half-right.

:facepalm:

duong
07-18-2012, 12:10 PM
The Olympics are meant to be a country vs. country event.

I've read that very often in recent times and I wonder where this comes from : does it come from all the fuss about which country gets more medals in the event ?

The Olympics have fundamentals which are similar to those of the UN, which means that the Olympics are universal, nationalism was not supposed to be a fundamental of the Olympics.

That it has been partly organized by nations from the beginning, OK, especially because the Olympics were not supposed to be for professional sportsmen and then the inter-national organization was there from the beginning, but the Olympics, in essence, are not a "competition between nations".

The one who will be Olympic champion will be Olympic champion alone, it's not his country which will be the Olympic champion.

That, besides, people count the numbers of medals by nations is OK, and it seems that it's more and more the case, which may explain why some people say it's a competition between nations, but in itself, there's no official competition between which nations gets most medals, there's not one medal for that :p

The Olympics are just different from other tennis competitions, but they're not in themselves an "inter-national" competition, they are an universal competition between athletes/ human beings in the universal meaning of these words.

MuzzahLovah
07-18-2012, 12:19 PM
I've read that very often in recent times and I wonder where this comes from : does it come from all the fuss about which country gets more medals in the event ?

The Olympics have fundamentals which are similar to those of the UN, which means they are universal, nationalism was not supposed to be a fundamental of the Olympics.

That it's partly organized by nations, OK, especially because the Olympics were not supposed to be for professional sportsmen and then the inter-national organization was there from the beginning, but the Olympics, in essence, are not a "competition between nations".

The one who will be Olympic champion will be Olympic champion alone, it's not his country which will be the Olympic champion.

That, besides, people count the numbers of medals by nations is OK, but in itself, there's no official competition between which nations gets most medals, there's not one medal for that :p

The Olympics are just different from other tennis competitions, but they're not in themselves an "inter-national" competition, they are an universal competition between athletes/ human beings in the universal meaning of these words.

:facepalm:

Each nation has a flag bearer, the national anthem plays for the winner of an event and the flags descend behind them on the podium. They are representing their nations in sport obviously.

duong
07-18-2012, 12:25 PM
:facepalm:

Each nation has a flag bearer, the national anthem plays for the winner of an event and the flags descend behind them on the podium. They are representing their nations in sport obviously.

each player has a nation and represents it, but it's not a competition between nations, it's a competition between athletes. Individual athletes or national teams, depending on the sport.

duong
07-18-2012, 12:27 PM
The problem is that Wawrinka for example should have to play any of the Top 16 seeds

Now he is being protected from playing half of them as he will be in the bottom half

he's only protected from Federer, he can play against any other one as nobody knows who will be in Federer's half or not (except that Djokovic will not)

it would have been more like fixing if the seeds 5, 6 and 7 had all been Spanish : then Nadal would have had to be drawn with seed number 8 :p

But anyway tennismen are already lucky that there can be 4 players by nation and not 2 like in swimming.

And tennis does not have as many national-disparities as table tennis for instance :lol:

MuzzahLovah
07-18-2012, 12:32 PM
each player has a nation and represents it, but it's not a competition between nations, it's a competition between athletes. Individual athletes or national teams, depending on the sport.

It's a competition between athletes or teams representing nations, even and individual sport like tennis has olympic teams, as they are representing their nations. Of course the draw should take that into account.

Looner
07-18-2012, 12:34 PM
MuzzahLovah, I hope you've :facepalm:d enough to insert some sense into your head.

duong
07-18-2012, 12:41 PM
It's a competition between athletes or teams representing nations, even and individual sport like tennis has olympic teams, as they are representing their nations. Of course the draw should take that into account.

you're technically right,

but the first quote was :

The Olympics are meant to be a country vs. country event.

and presented it as if the main goal of the Olympics was to know which nation has most medals

Nationalism was not supposed to be in the essence of the Olympics, even though it was used very early this way, but it was clearly a deviation from the Olympic ideals (remember Hitler in 1936 for instance)

I mean I say that because I read more and more sentences like the one before.

For instance Sampras suggested to make it a competition between nations like the Davis cup, as if it was what the Olympics were supposed to be about.

I'm afraid it's an evidence that this is going too far in the nationalistic direction, which is one of the many deviations the Olympics have suffered for long

Well anyway Olympic ideals have probably been forgotten for long :sad:

The Olympics are supposed to be a competition where every athlete comes originally from his nation and in the end mixes friendly with all athletes from other nations, as they do symbolically in the closing ceremony.

Ps : actually I read that there's a lot of sex-mixing between athletes from different nations in the Olympic village :p There's still some "Peace and love" somewhere :lol:

nellis_lv
07-18-2012, 12:48 PM
So everyone is guaranteed to have a Spanish, American, French, and Argentinian man in their quarter?

Oh, and Russian too ..

cutesteve22
07-18-2012, 12:52 PM
not bad. Nadal against his compatriot bitches or Djokovic against other serbian mugs are boring

duong
07-18-2012, 12:52 PM
So everyone is guaranteed to have a Spanish, American, French, and Argentinian man in their quarter?

Oh, and Russian too ..

yes, and only one

TennisGrandSlam
07-18-2012, 12:55 PM
Seeding based on country not ranking

samanosuke
07-18-2012, 01:06 PM
Good. Shame Rataco isn't spaniard though

atennisfan
07-18-2012, 01:51 PM
It's not normal in tennis. I don't even know if they did this back in 2008?! Anyone?

But it isn't reason enough to get shocked.

It's normal in multi-sports events, especially the Olympics.

atennisfan
07-18-2012, 01:54 PM
This about representing countries, not individual players. :facepalm:

Exactly!

This is the Olympics, not Queens, Halle or even Wimbledon.

abraxas21
07-18-2012, 01:54 PM
that was expected and it's a good idea tbh

the draw is gonna get rigged one way or another though

Mahqz
07-18-2012, 01:58 PM
I also don't like it but even seeding is fixing. And country seeding is done in many sport as mentioned here, so it's also done in tennis here. Ok I can get used to it.

But what I really would prefer if we talk about nationalism or not: In the early days there were mixed country doubles...

atennisfan
07-18-2012, 02:09 PM
he's only protected from Federer, he can play against any other one as nobody knows who will be in Federer's half or not (except that Djokovic will not)

it would have been more like fixing if the seeds 5, 6 and 7 had all been Spanish : then Nadal would have had to be drawn with seed number 8 :p

But anyway tennismen are already lucky that there can be 4 players by nation and not 2 like in swimming.

And tennis does not have as many national-disparities as table tennis for instance :lol:

I am still shocked that IOC allowed ITF to institute 4 players per country rule. They clearly try to suck up to one of the most popular sports. It's a pity FIFA is so protective of World Cup and does not allow more than 3 open age players.
Swimming with 2 swimmers per individual event is very tough, but cycling is the worst, in most track events only have 1 cyclist per country in individual event.
Swimming used to have 3 swimmers per event, but USA men and GDR women cleaned up in 1976 Montreal, so they had to come up with the rules.
But these days it does no really matter as there is now much greater parity in swimming across countries.

mickymouse
07-18-2012, 02:22 PM
They do that for table tennis and badminton as well. Not sure what the rationale is since it actually makes it even more likely for top players from the same country to avoid meeting each other until the finals, which hence makes the finals even more boring.

atennisfan
07-18-2012, 02:29 PM
They do that for table tennis and badminton as well. Not sure what the rationale is since it actually makes it even more likely for top players from the same country to avoid meeting each other until the finals, which hence makes the finals even more boring.


That's because badminton (to a certain extent) and table tennis particularly are strongly dominated by China.
There's no one single country that is dominating tennis. Men's top four are from four different countries, while women's top twelve are from twelve different countries.
So this olympics set up is actually more interesting from the very early rounds because we won't get the spanish armada bending over for Nadal, etc.

Garson007
07-18-2012, 03:49 PM
So will Usain Bolt be kept apart from Yohan Blake then ???
Doing heats separately would actually be interesting. I'm sure there is already a device in place.

emotion
07-18-2012, 03:51 PM
huh. Will make draw a bit predetermined.
Russians being split is interesting as none are seeded

LinkMage
07-18-2012, 04:48 PM
Excellent idea.

This should be applied by the ATP and ITF so Nadull finally stops getting his cakewalk draws full of his Spanish worshippers. :o

Corey Feldman
07-18-2012, 04:57 PM
Nadal will still draw the club pro from Costa Rica

zeleni
07-18-2012, 05:06 PM
irrelevant subject. giocovich wins gold regardless of draw.

Thunderfish8
07-18-2012, 05:23 PM
While that is somewhat true, having all your atheletes in one section also gives them a better chance to progress from it. So your thinking is only half-right.

yea, thats true... good point

well which would you prefer?

1. Spain/U.S./etc. having a chance of getting all 4 players in semis but can also lose them all in 1st round
OR
2. Spain/U.S./etc. being guaranteed a 3rd round berth but also being guaranteed at least 1 or 2 player extinction by the semis

totally valid point though... didn't really think about it that way :wavey:

Thunderfish8
07-18-2012, 05:27 PM
I've read that very often in recent times and I wonder where this comes from : does it come from all the fuss about which country gets more medals in the event ?

The Olympics have fundamentals which are similar to those of the UN, which means that the Olympics are universal, nationalism was not supposed to be a fundamental of the Olympics.

That it has been partly organized by nations from the beginning, OK, especially because the Olympics were not supposed to be for professional sportsmen and then the inter-national organization was there from the beginning, but the Olympics, in essence, are not a "competition between nations".

The one who will be Olympic champion will be Olympic champion alone, it's not his country which will be the Olympic champion.

That, besides, people count the numbers of medals by nations is OK, and it seems that it's more and more the case, which may explain why some people say it's a competition between nations, but in itself, there's no official competition between which nations gets most medals, there's not one medal for that :p

The Olympics are just different from other tennis competitions, but they're not in themselves an "inter-national" competition, they are an universal competition between athletes/ human beings in the universal meaning of these words.

i get what ur saying...

but then you have to realize that all doubles teams are from the same country... yes i understand that the olympics were not entirely designed to be country vs. country, but that's what it has clearly become

if it were really about the individual competitors, daniel nestor would be allowed to play with max myrni (I'm almost positive i just butchered that spelling)
but he's not

dencod16
07-18-2012, 05:30 PM
I've read that very often in recent times and I wonder where this comes from : does it come from all the fuss about which country gets more medals in the event ?

The Olympics have fundamentals which are similar to those of the UN, which means that the Olympics are universal, nationalism was not supposed to be a fundamental of the Olympics.

That it has been partly organized by nations from the beginning, OK, especially because the Olympics were not supposed to be for professional sportsmen and then the inter-national organization was there from the beginning, but the Olympics, in essence, are not a "competition between nations".

The one who will be Olympic champion will be Olympic champion alone, it's not his country which will be the Olympic champion.

That, besides, people count the numbers of medals by nations is OK, and it seems that it's more and more the case, which may explain why some people say it's a competition between nations, but in itself, there's no official competition between which nations gets most medals, there's not one medal for that :p

The Olympics are just different from other tennis competitions, but they're not in themselves an "inter-national" competition, they are an universal competition between athletes/ human beings in the universal meaning of these words.

And also you could then have 4 Spaniards (for example) in the Semis !!!!

Is that what they really want to have

Lol its a country sport, so what if its all 4 Spaniards, if its not a nation sport we will have 9 Spaniards in the draw. They are not playing for themselves they are playing for their country thats is why there is no prize money. Actually it's better to have them separated as many players choke against countrymen/women, specially Kvitova. And how will it assure anything that 4 Spaniards will be in the semis, all you know they can have none in the semis. And it's more of the honor and prestige you get for getting the most medals.

uxyzapenje
07-18-2012, 06:57 PM
So what? Who cares? As long as it's not 'Player X 'must' play player Y' it's not a problem'. Who cares if play X doesn't play players Y,Z or N bcs they are from same country. What do I care if Almagro isn't going to play Verdasco or Monaco isn't going to play Berlocq. :shrug:

duong
07-18-2012, 07:22 PM
So will Usain Bolt be kept apart from Yohan Blake then ???

I think they have a rule like that because it seems to me that usually in heats/quarterfinals players from the same nation are in different heats.

duong
07-18-2012, 07:27 PM
They do that for table tennis and badminton as well. Not sure what the rationale is since it actually makes it even more likely for top players from the same country to avoid meeting each other until the finals, which hence makes the finals even more boring.

yes, in a sport dominated by one nation, it actually makes things a little bit boring : the semifinals are nearly all Chinese.

but then you have to realize that all doubles teams are from the same country... yes i understand that the olympics were not entirely designed to be country vs. country, but that's what it has clearly become

if it were really about the individual competitors, daniel nestor would be allowed to play with max myrni (I'm almost positive i just butchered that spelling)
but he's not

yes, you're right but I also think that the mixed nations doubles team would also refer too much to the professional world because top-doubles players play together to get more money.

it's a little bit like in football nations competitions comparing to football clubs, if you let people choose their "team", in the end you have teams which are mostly oriented by money and you also have huge level differences, then national team competitions get more interesting because you don't have such level differences.

sweetkit
07-18-2012, 07:31 PM
Whoever fixing whatever in tennis? But Tio Tony is still in Mallorca.:rolleyes:

Yolita
07-19-2012, 09:37 PM
If there are two players or doubles teams from the same country, they will be drawn in opposite halves of the draw.
If there are three or more players/teams from the same country, they will be drawn in different quarters of the draw.

:eek::eek:

Do you know how this will be carried out? In what order they'll do it? By ranking?

If a country has 4 players, will they place the 2 top players in opposite halves and then the other 2 players in the other 2 quarters? Or is there a chance of a country's 2 top players being drawn in the same half?

The first option seems more reasonable to me: like that a country could theoretically have a final between their 2 top players.

Am I correct?

duong
07-19-2012, 09:49 PM
Do you know how this will be carried out? In what order they'll do it? By ranking?

I also wondered about that : I think the only way to make it and give as many chances to everybody is also to draw the position which is drawn before drawing the player which gets in.

But actually I think it might noty be drawn by a person, but rather completely drawn by a computer, or maybe only the seeds will be drawn by a person, doing as I said : first drawing the position then the player going there.

If a country has 4 players, will they place the 2 top players in opposite halves and then the other 2 players in the other 2 quarters? Or is there a chance of a country's 2 top players being drawn in the same half?

I don't think they will make your first proposal : it's just making things more complicated and they did not say it.

There are international seeds anyway (for the Chinese case in table tennis)

lalaland
07-19-2012, 10:06 PM
I've read that very often in recent times and I wonder where this comes from : does it come from all the fuss about which country gets more medals in the event ?

The Olympics have fundamentals which are similar to those of the UN, which means that the Olympics are universal, nationalism was not supposed to be a fundamental of the Olympics.

That it has been partly organized by nations from the beginning, OK, especially because the Olympics were not supposed to be for professional sportsmen and then the inter-national organization was there from the beginning, but the Olympics, in essence, are not a "competition between nations".

The one who will be Olympic champion will be Olympic champion alone, it's not his country which will be the Olympic champion.

That, besides, people count the numbers of medals by nations is OK, and it seems that it's more and more the case, which may explain why some people say it's a competition between nations, but in itself, there's no official competition between which nations gets most medals, there's not one medal for that :p

The Olympics are just different from other tennis competitions, but they're not in themselves an "inter-national" competition, they are an universal competition between athletes/ human beings in the universal meaning of these words.

And you agree with this philosophy?
Cos I can clearly remembered that back at Jan/Feb of the year when Gasquet was the 5th ranked on Olympics roster and in danger of losing out his single spot, and the Olympics rule clearly said that the top 4 ranked player in the country should automatically be given the spots, and you disagreed because you said the individual country federation should have the right to overrule the Olympics rule in order to choose the 4 players who has the best chance to represent the country to go. And that's because it's a nation-oriented event, not individual event, so the nation's interest comes first. Since the Olympics is on grass, you think Richard should be chosen instead of Simon. Is that just out of your love to Gasquet/loath to Simon? or you now has a sudden change of heart?

Geo
07-19-2012, 10:10 PM
It's the Olympics, this is what happens :shrug: I don't see the problem...

latso
07-20-2012, 07:12 AM
Olympic commitee high as f.ck, fixing the draws and sh.t... :facepalm:

duong
07-20-2012, 09:00 AM
And you agree with this philosophy?
Cos I can clearly remembered that back at Jan/Feb of the year when Gasquet was the 5th ranked on Olympics roster and in danger of losing out his single spot, and the Olympics rule clearly said that the top 4 ranked player in the country should automatically be given the spots, and you disagreed because you said the individual country federation should have the right to overrule the Olympics rule in order to choose the 4 players who has the best chance to represent the country to go. And that's because it's a nation-oriented event, not individual event, so the nation's interest comes first. Since the Olympics is on grass, you think Richard should be chosen instead of Simon. Is that just out of your love to Gasquet/loath to Simon? or you now has a sudden change of heart?

no no no you don't understand me at all here, I didn't say that for my country, I didn't say that because I like Gasquet (I don't so much) and I dislike Simon (actually I don't remember exactly that thread but anyway, Gasquet's main competitor in the Race for the Olympics was rather Benneteau )

... but because you can't just accept the rankings as the only criterium without thinking a little bit : that's all I meant, I'm not such a fan of Gasquet but one thing is for sure : I've always thought that he could win something big on grass, that's his best surface.

Here the tournament will be played on grass, which is not the most common surface on tour, which is hardcourt or clay, on which the rankings are based.

I've heard a lot of selections for the Olympics in several sports and sometimes they fit to strict criteria like the rankings here without much intelligence on the real potential of the athletes. Sometimes they do it more intelligently : it may make quarrels but I'm more a partisan of intelligence generally speaking.

If France meets Switzerland in the Davis cup, I can assure you I would say everywhere that France should choose Simon to play against Federer ... as I said before the final match of the Davis cup 2010 that Forget should choose Simon for that final match ;)

You underestimated me a little bit here ;) (which is understandable considering MTF's general context but I thought you were more able to understand me :D )

Elaka Farmor
07-20-2012, 10:09 AM
Im a man of traditions, and to know that Fed and Nole NOT are going to be in the same semi half like always, makes me emotional :hysteric:

TennisGrandSlam
07-20-2012, 10:22 AM
Andy Murray has said, "Tennis is fixed!"

TennisGrandSlam
07-20-2012, 10:28 AM
Andy Murray has said, "Tennis is fixed!"

Corey Feldman
07-20-2012, 12:02 PM
does anyone know what the tv coverage of this Olympics tennis is gonna be like?

i noticed BBC added like 20 extra channels, im hoping they dedicate a channel to each sport, that would be fantastic - a tennis channel

Mateya
07-20-2012, 06:41 PM
Well, they at least admit it. :lol:

This means we can have a Seppi-Starace semifinal now.

lalaland
07-20-2012, 09:34 PM
no no no you don't understand me at all here, I didn't say that for my country, I didn't say that because I like Gasquet (I don't so much) and I dislike Simon (actually I don't remember exactly that thread but anyway, Gasquet's main competitor in the Race for the Olympics was rather Benneteau )

... but because you can't just accept the rankings as the only criterium without thinking a little bit : that's all I meant, I'm not such a fan of Gasquet but one thing is for sure : I've always thought that he could win something big on grass, that's his best surface.

Why not? As you said, this is a competition between athletes as individuals. And the criterion for being in the competition is your overall achievement (in a span of 1 year). Because there are 3 surfaces in tennis, plus indoor or outdoor, that makes a combination of 6 different conditions. It is already unfair that they have to pick a surface that could favor certain players, granted the surface choice is determined by the venue, so it's not intended to be unfair. Now the grass players already has an unintended advantage, should they further penalize others by granting them a spot based on not their ranking but their ability on this specific surface? If Olympics is for celebrating individual excellence, then it makes sense that individual merit in terms of overall achievement instead of surface specific achievement should be the criterion. Would not be fair to give a spot to a grass specialist over one who has achieve more in general, no?


I've heard a lot of selections for the Olympics in several sports and sometimes they fit to strict criteria like the rankings here without much intelligence on the real potential of the athletes. Sometimes they do it more intelligently : it may make quarrels but I'm more a partisan of intelligence generally speaking.

I donít think the issue is the intelligence of the rules. It is impossible that you can have a rule that is fair to everyone in every single aspect. World ranking don't discriminate anyone, because all players earn their points to make the ranking. Why is the real potential of an athlete on grass be valued more than their real potential in tennis? I would think the real potential of the athletes would be the ability to excel on more than 1 surface. Surely, the only accurate measurement would be to have equal number of tournaments in each surface. But an unrealistic scenario sadly. So if you just want the real potential of the athletes on grass, would that be unfair to players who play well in majority of the tournaments on the tour which is played on clay and hard?


You underestimated me a little bit here ;) (which is understandable considering MTF's general context but I thought you were more able to understand me :D )

I donít estimate your post based on the overall standard of MTF, you also should know better than that. I understand you quite well, my friend. And I always enjoy those healthy debates between us (heated or not), hope you do feel the same ;).