Djokovic's mental strength is incredible [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Djokovic's mental strength is incredible

Wing Man Frank
06-06-2012, 11:27 AM
This man deserves an incredible amount of praise. He's be so close to losing on so many occasions but his mental strength allows him to come through each time.

Off the top of my head since Wimbledon last year he's saved 2 MP's on Federer's serve at *5-3 down in the fifth set semi-final at the US Open, came back from 2-4* 30-0 on Nadal's serve in the Aussie Open final set and then saved 4 MP's against Tsonga in the QF at the French.

He's an absolute machine. He's the world number one with a huge target on his back. Whilst Federer has made a hash of a really easy draw and got lucky that Del Potro was injured and Rafa's had a draw that is full of players willing to just roll over and give up, Djokovic is currently facing players who are having the best matches of their careers (Seppi and Tsonga in the French Open for example) and still finds a way to beat them.

How many others continue to defy the odds like he does? What a true champion he is.

Time for the Rafa and Federer fans to stick getting their knickers in a twist and give this man some credit.

paseo
06-06-2012, 11:28 AM
naah...!

Allez
06-06-2012, 11:41 AM
He is the most clutch player of all time. It is known.

Forehander
06-06-2012, 11:46 AM
He does have great mental strength. His pride within him seems immovable even at the most pressured moments.

barahmasa
06-06-2012, 11:50 AM
Time for the Rafa and Federer fans to stick getting their knickers in a twist and give this man some credit.

Lame post. Who ever doubted (post 2010) Nole's mental strength. It is epic, although he choked badly the Rome final. Unfortunately I think his mental strength won't be enough against Rafa this year, his game is way off from the beginning of the year, and Rafa is getting better and better. Nole's no. 1 is in real danger after Wimbledon (which is a lock for the annoying Spaniard).

:cat:

ServeVolley
06-06-2012, 11:53 AM
Agreed. He's without doubt the GOAT at facing matchpoints. Fed's passing shot in the 4th set tiebreaker of Wimby 2008 is still my favourite play on a matchpoint, but Djokovic's mental strength really is unparalleled. If he gets through the MPs, you can bet your hat he'll win the match.

Federer in 2
06-06-2012, 11:56 AM
Yup. I really respect him way more since yesterday.

Wing Man Frank
06-06-2012, 11:58 AM
Lame post. Who ever doubted (post 2010) Nole's mental strength. It is epic, although he choked badly the Rome final. Unfortunately I think his mental strength won't be enough against Rafa this year, his game is way off from the beginning of the year, and Rafa is getting better and better. Nole's no. 1 is in real danger after Wimbledon (which is a lock for the annoying Spaniard).

:cat:

Not really.

All I've seen on these forums is people calling everyone Novak plays a choker. Bit bizarre really. Seems like every single tennis player on the planet is a choker when they play him.

Commander Data
06-06-2012, 12:01 PM
Best thing since sliced bread :worship:

barahmasa
06-06-2012, 12:05 PM
Not really.

All I've seen on these forums is people calling everyone Novak plays a choker. Bit bizarre really. Seems like every single tennis player on the planet is a choker when they play him.

To be honest, 99% of tour are chokers, even the GOAT is a frequent choker :o

Turquoise
06-06-2012, 12:11 PM
He has incredible willpower, and he's demonstrated that in huge moments especially over the past two years. Kudos to him.

rafa_maniac
06-06-2012, 12:25 PM
I think any sane Fedal fan would acknowledge his strength in this area. The only one who is stronger mentally when their back is against the wall was probably Serena Williams in years past.

Nr 1 Fan
06-06-2012, 12:28 PM
I actually already said Djoker was mentally strong 2 years ago and I remember everyone laughing with me, stating he wasn't in the same league as Fedal and even ranking Murray higher in terms of mental ability. I was right.

Ben.
06-06-2012, 12:29 PM
It is incredible. He forces the opponent to win it themselves and gives them nothing in these moments. It must be said though, that on each occassion you mentioned a player missed a key routine shot.

Nole fan
06-06-2012, 12:32 PM
Agreed. He's without doubt the GOAT at facing matchpoints. Fed's passing shot in the 4th set tiebreaker of Wimby 2008 is still my favourite play on a matchpoint, but Djokovic's mental strength really is unparalleled. If he gets through the MPs, you can bet your hat he'll win the match.

That is becoming more and more obvious. Once he saved those MPs versus Tsonga I knew the match was in the bag. Amazing.

leng jai
06-06-2012, 12:36 PM
That is becoming more and more obvious. Once he saved those MPs versus Tsonga I knew the match was in the bag. Amazing.

It was more like after he won the tiebreak it was obvious he would get through the match. He hasn't lost a match after recovering from MP down in ages from what I recall.

arm
06-06-2012, 12:51 PM
I am one of his biggest "tards" and I think he is being far too overrated when it comes to mental strength. He is clutch when MPs down or set points down, that's true, but most of the times the reason why he finds himself in those situation is due to lack of mental strength or minor breakdowns in the end of sets, like it happened yesterday. And luck. Luck is part of it too. :shrug: I do agree than when he is about to lose, he shows guts, goes for it, plays all or nothing tennis. But mental strength isn't only about saving match points, it's about winning TBs, taking BPs, and not losing sets 7-5!

Last year's semi final, that return of serve. Unbelievable, but let's be honest that was a lucky shot. :shrug: Took guts to answer like that, true. And the second MPs wasn't really saved, more like Roger wasted it.

Yesterday he did show huge mental strength against Tsonga by defending those MPs, winning the TB and then the 5th set. True. But he lost two sets 7-5 after being up a break, people! How is that for mental strength?

All I am saying is that as a fangirl, thinking about his mental strength doesn't make me a lot more confident. Sure he is strong, I am not saying he is a mental midget, but let's not go overboard here!

Time Violation
06-06-2012, 01:05 PM
Yesterday he did show huge mental strength against Tsonga by defending those MPs, winning the TB and then the 5th set. True. But he lost two sets 7-5 after being up a break, people! How is that for mental strength?

Well, Tsonga actually played well, didn't just stand there :lol: And the conditions weren't exactly perfect for Novak's game. It would be nice if he could straight set or tripple bagel anyone out there, but it's not always going to happen :)

arm
06-06-2012, 01:10 PM
Well, Tsonga actually played well, didn't just stand there :lol: And the conditions weren't exactly perfect for Novak's game. It would be nice if he could straight set or tripple bagel anyone out there, but it's not always going to happen :)

I am not saying otherwise. :shrug: I just think people are exasperating. A lot. But it's just my own very biased opinion.

Hian-GOAT
06-06-2012, 01:11 PM
http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb434/JoeDiamond7/haters-owl.gif

buzz
06-06-2012, 01:20 PM
I guess he is the first player to come back from matchpoints to win a match in a GS QF/SF/F in three consecutive years. Actually three times in ten GStournies and ad to that the AO matches. A really impressive spell in my opinion. He believed in himself played gutsy and it payed of, but you have to be a bit fortunate to get it done.

Higher Power
06-06-2012, 01:49 PM
Everyone's been talking about last year's forehand return on 15-40 but what about those MP's he saved against Fed in 2010... what a way to save 2 mps.

Wing Man Frank
06-06-2012, 02:43 PM
But it's just my own very biased opinion.

Indeed it is.

Alex999
06-06-2012, 03:38 PM
say what you want (some of you), but Novak is absolutely amazing on MP. Tsonga threw everything at Nole... playing probably the best match of his life but it was not good enough.

Chirag
06-06-2012, 03:49 PM
say what you want (some of you), but Novak is absolutely amazing on MP. Tsonga threw everything at Nole... playing probably the best match of his life but it was not good enough.

I think he played better against Rafa in AO08 ;) That is probably one of the highest level of tennis I have seen in the last 5 years

BroTree123
06-06-2012, 03:55 PM
Everytime he beats Tsonga in a grand slam, he wins it. After what happened yesterday, Djokovic is smelling blood. Nadal is fucked.

asmazif
06-06-2012, 03:55 PM
I think he played better against Rafa in AO08 ;) That is probably one of the highest level of tennis I have seen in the last 5 years

Well, obviously, that was just heroic. This was his best performance on clay though for sure.

Everytime he beats Tsonga in a grand slam, he wins it. After what happened yesterday, Djokovic is smelling blood. Nadal is fucked.

However, conversely, 100% of the time he plays Fed in the semi-finals of Roland Garros he loses.

Fireballer
06-06-2012, 03:56 PM
Remember basel 09 against Stepanek?He was down 0-40 on his serve triple match point down and won that set and the next

Fireballer
06-06-2012, 03:57 PM
and Serra I think in Halle 09 00-40 down and wins the set and the next

BroTree123
06-06-2012, 03:57 PM
Probably the best player ever to win matches from MP down.

asmazif
06-06-2012, 04:02 PM
Kohli Indian Wells '10 as well, 0-40 down 5-6 third set

Fireballer
06-06-2012, 04:06 PM
Kohli Indian Wells '10 as well, 0-40 down 5-6 third set

guy is crazy

BroTree123
06-06-2012, 04:15 PM
That was when he played like shit as well. Then all of a sudden he played like God on those MPs. Must be so friggin frustrating for his opponents, who most of the time, don't do much wrong.

mystic ice cube
06-06-2012, 04:15 PM
Nole has the best mental strength I've ever seen. People sometimes mention Nadal, but Nadal plays defensively and doesn't go for his shots half as much as Djokovic. It's incredible really.

reery
06-06-2012, 04:16 PM
Sampras did it for many years...

Djokovic just has a couple of seasons being a mental giant.

Let's see if he can be a mental giant for 8 years at least not just 2 years.

BroTree123
06-06-2012, 04:19 PM
His next goal should be to comeback from *40-0 on his opponents serve.

Marc23
06-06-2012, 04:21 PM
let's be honest that was a lucky shot. :shrug:

Let's be honest...you make your own luck!

Leo
06-06-2012, 04:26 PM
Djokovic was incredibly clutch late in that Isner IW SF this year but Isner's serve was just too good on that day. Can't beat a guy when he's blasting 140 mphs serves consistently in a third set tiebreak - although Novak sure came close.

Also we can't forget or underrate his effort vs. Murray this year in the AO. Murray played one of the best hard court matches I've ever seen from him, and frankly his best GS match vs. a big opponent since his incredible defeat of Nadal in the '08 USO. Murray was too good for him in sets 2 and 3, Djokovic found peak annihilation mode for sets 4 and most of 5, then Murray began playing peak forehand tennis again and had all the momentum going into those break points at 5-5. The way Djokovic escaped that massive hole with huge and precise hitting after long rallies, lot of running, under pressure, just tremendous.

That Murray/Nadal AO '12 one-two punch of epicness is near the top of the record books for best efforts by a tennis player.

emotion
06-06-2012, 04:57 PM
He´s a contender for mental GOAT. Sampras and Hewitt must be as well (shame Hewitt is a choker now)

rafa_maniac
06-06-2012, 05:06 PM
Djokovic was incredibly clutch late in that Isner IW SF this year but Isner's serve was just too good on that day. Can't beat a guy when he's blasting 140 mphs serves consistently in a third set tiebreak - although Novak sure came close.

Also we can't forget or underrate his effort vs. Murray this year in the AO. Murray played one of the best hard court matches I've ever seen from him, and frankly his best GS match vs. a big opponent since his incredible defeat of Nadal in the '08 USO. Murray was too good for him in sets 2 and 3, Djokovic found peak annihilation mode for sets 4 and most of 5, then Murray began playing peak forehand tennis again and had all the momentum going into those break points at 5-5. The way Djokovic escaped that massive hole with huge and precise hitting after long rallies, lot of running, under pressure, just tremendous.

That Murray/Nadal AO '12 one-two punch of epicness is near the top of the record books for best efforts by a tennis player.

Agree with most of it, but Murray's effort vs Djokovic at the Oz Open this year was easily his most impressive match against another one of the top guys in a Slam imo. He was great in that match against Rafa, but Rafa was gassed after the Olympics and pretty shit all tournament, the only reason that match was really close at all was thanks to Nadal's grit and the rain delay messing up Murray's momentum.

Leo
06-06-2012, 05:43 PM
Agree with most of it, but Murray's effort vs Djokovic at the Oz Open this year was easily his most impressive match against another one of the top guys in a Slam imo. He was great in that match against Rafa, but Rafa was gassed after the Olympics and pretty shit all tournament, the only reason that match was really close at all was thanks to Nadal's grit and the rain delay messing up Murray's momentum.

You may be right but in my head I remember that as Murray's peak match for serve and fh, super offensive. Would be fun to re-watch sometime but more fun to see Murray play like that again in a Slam.

MaratandMilos
06-06-2012, 05:51 PM
Djokovic's incredible mental strength gives him a chance against Nadal, even on this court. He has that mental advantage over everyone on tour at the moment in big matches.

FedvsNole
06-06-2012, 05:52 PM
He is the most clutch player of all time. It is known.



He has the highest retirement rate of any player. Clutch isn't just saving match points its about battling even when your down or injured.

No way in hell can you say that when he only starts displaying being good in the "clutch" over the last year or two. It has to be over your career and in that respect he retired or quit more often than any top ten or top player i've ever seen.


In tennis when it think of clutch sampras, nadal, federer over their careers are what comes to mind.

rocketassist
06-06-2012, 05:55 PM
Sampras, peak Hewitt, Djokovic, Muster, Wilander- these guys are in their own league mentally.


Agree with most of it, but Murray's effort vs Djokovic at the Oz Open this year was easily his most impressive match against another one of the top guys in a Slam imo. He was great in that match against Rafa, but Rafa was gassed after the Olympics and pretty shit all tournament, the only reason that match was really close at all was thanks to Nadal's grit and the rain delay messing up Murray's momentum.

Nadal played three great sets against Fish three days earlier while Murray came through a 3hr 57 scrapfest with Del Potro, they'd had a similar summer run except for Lu beating Murray earlier in the Olympics and not enough credit is given to the Scot for the way he played that match, pressure-free, best ballstriking he's ever displayed. Being on Armstrong which is a faster court than Ashe played a big part in it.

MaratandMilos
06-06-2012, 05:58 PM
Djokovic was incredibly clutch late in that Isner IW SF this year but Isner's serve was just too good on that day. Can't beat a guy when he's blasting 140 mphs serves consistently in a third set tiebreak - although Novak sure came close.

Also we can't forget or underrate his effort vs. Murray this year in the AO. Murray played one of the best hard court matches I've ever seen from him, and frankly his best GS match vs. a big opponent since his incredible defeat of Nadal in the '08 USO. Murray was too good for him in sets 2 and 3, Djokovic found peak annihilation mode for sets 4 and most of 5, then Murray began playing peak forehand tennis again and had all the momentum going into those break points at 5-5. The way Djokovic escaped that massive hole with huge and precise hitting after long rallies, lot of running, under pressure, just tremendous.

That Murray/Nadal AO '12 one-two punch of epicness is near the top of the record books for best efforts by a tennis player.
Yeah...that Murray match was just as impressive as anything Novak's done really. It looked like Murray had him multiple times, but he found a way through it all.

BroTree123
06-06-2012, 06:03 PM
If Djokovic plays every point from now on like he did on those 4 MP's, the Nole Slam is definitely possible.

BauerAlmeida
06-06-2012, 06:04 PM
He has the highest retirement rate of any player. Clutch isn't just saving match points its about battling even when your down or injured.

No way in hell can you say that when he only starts displaying being good in the "clutch" over the last year or two. It has to be over your career and in that respect he retired or quit more often than any top ten or top player i've ever seen.


In tennis when it think of clutch sampras, nadal, federer over their careers are what comes to mind.


Federer??? Really?

Wing Man Frank
06-06-2012, 06:07 PM
Yeah...that Murray match was just as impressive as anything Novak's done really. It looked like Murray had him multiple times, but he found a way through it all.

Surely being 2-4* 30-0 down in the fifth set of a final vs Nadal eclipses anything that happened in that semi-final?

Clay Death
06-06-2012, 06:08 PM
nole is on borrowed time.

tsonga gave him a damn gift yesterday. what a fucking choke artist. he had the match on his racquet on at least a couple of those match points.

i mean it was right there to be had. so what does he do? he hits one exactly where nole was standing and the other one into the net. all that open space and such an easy forehand and he sends it to the bottom of the net.

he should be ashamed of himself. just massive chokeration by tsonga.

BroTree123
06-06-2012, 06:09 PM
Surely being 2-4* 30-0 down in the fifth set of a final vs Nadal eclipses anything that happened in that semi-final?

Hate to say it but Murray was virtually closer to victory than Nadal (points wise). He had *5-5 *15-40 after coming back down from 5-2*. Plus, recovering after a potential choke of a lead is quite something.

MaratandMilos
06-06-2012, 06:12 PM
Surely being 2-4* 30-0 down in the fifth set of a final vs Nadal eclipses anything that happened in that semi-final?
Perhaps, but I think Murray was playing better than Nadal was and forcing the issue in a way that I've really never seen from him before. Some forget just how great a match that was from him. He was on the verge of fulfilling his massive potential and Novak just shut it down.

Mark Lenders
06-06-2012, 06:14 PM
Yes, he is. The quality of his game in pressure situations is unmatched, it is part of the reason why he is the best player in the world at the moment.

shanks
06-06-2012, 06:18 PM
nole is on borrowed time.

tsonga gave him a damn gift yesterday. what a fucking choke artist. he had the match on his racquet on at least a couple of those match points.

i mean it was right there to be had. so what does he do? he hits one exactly where nole was standing and the other one into the net. all that open space and such an easy forehand and he sends it to the bottom of the net.

he should be ashamed of himself. just massive chokeration by tsonga.

Agreed CD. Tsonga should have done better. 4 match points!! I mean its not like Djokovic served 4 aces. There was even a second serve in that! Atleast 2 of those points Tsonga should have won if he had more belief. Djokovic played really well on those points. No unforced errors and some brave shots.

Fireballer
06-06-2012, 06:23 PM
nole is on borrowed time.

tsonga gave him a damn gift yesterday. what a fucking choke artist. he had the match on his racquet on at least a couple of those match points.

i mean it was right there to be had. so what does he do? he hits one exactly where nole was standing and the other one into the net. all that open space and such an easy forehand and he sends it to the bottom of the net.

he should be ashamed of himself. just massive chokeration by tsonga.

cry some more dude please go ahead.....

I will settle this.You know nothing about tennis.

Spierbal
06-06-2012, 06:28 PM
and Serra I think in Halle 09 00-40 down and wins the set and the next

What jumps at me from that match is the drop shot of death at 30-40, it might not be a grandslam, but the outrageous and careless nature is very evident. He is the least scared of losing out of top 4, which explains his friendly embraces after he loses a match. This is where he differs with Nadal and Fed and us humans, typically one plays not to lose.

V5Y9oaHlNC8

Allez
06-06-2012, 06:30 PM
He has the highest retirement rate of any player. Clutch isn't just saving match points its about battling even when your down or injured.

No way in hell can you say that when he only starts displaying being good in the "clutch" over the last year or two. It has to be over your career and in that respect he retired or quit more often than any top ten or top player i've ever seen.


In tennis when it think of clutch sampras, nadal, federer over their careers are what comes to mind.

Please someone gift this guy with a definition of what clutch play actually means :facepalm:

shanks
06-06-2012, 06:32 PM
Currently, Djoker is certainly the most mentally strong of all the players. I remember him saving 2 match points against Federer at 2010 US Open. 2 amazing forehand winners to finish both the points! Those were incredibly high risk shots on the line. Not easy especially when at that time, his forehand was considered to be relatively weak. Federer did nothing wrong honestly in those points. He stuck to his successful strategy of not making any errors, which had always worked before.
In 2011 I felt Novak was lucky. Especially 2nd match point was an absolutely stupid error from Fed. It was more Fed's fault than anything.
Hats off to Djokovic again vs Tsonga!

Nole fan
06-06-2012, 06:39 PM
Currently, Djoker is certainly the most mentally strong of all the players. I remember him saving 2 match points against Federer at 2010 US Open. 2 amazing forehand winners to finish both the points! Those were incredibly high risk shots on the line. Not easy especially when at that time, his forehand was considered to be relatively weak. Federer did nothing wrong honestly in those points. He stuck to his successful strategy of not making any errors, which had always worked before.
In 2011 I felt Novak was lucky. Especially 2nd match point was an absolutely stupid error from Fed. It was more Fed's fault than anything.
Hats off to Djokovic again vs Tsonga!

I agree those were the most impressive. It was also his real breakthough, even though he lost the final against a too strong Nadal. But from then on he was Nole 2.0. After beating Federer in that semifinal he got the belief in himself. He hasn't stopped believing, that is the truth.

Nole fan
06-06-2012, 06:41 PM
Q. You actually played a little bit like Pele out there today. On those match points, how is it you’re able to raise your game and play such astonishing tennis when it’s such a big pressure occasion?
NOVAK DJOKOVIC: There is really not any rational explanation or a word that can describe what you’re supposed to do when you’re match points down or when you’re losing and you’re very close to lose the match.
It’s, I guess, trying to be mentally tough and believing in your shots. Obviously a little bit of experience that I had playing on this level for last five, six years. I did have some matches similar to this one when I was match points down and managing to come back.
So I don’t want to be wise now and say, Okay, I know you how to play when I’m match points down. Because as I said, there is no explanation. I’m just going for the shots. I’m glad I was aggressive in these moments and, you know, it paid back for me.

shanks
06-06-2012, 06:46 PM
I agree those were the most impressive. It was also his real breakthough, even though he lost the final against a too strong Nadal. But from then on he was Nole 2.0. After beating Federer in that semifinal he got the belief in himself. He hasn't stopped believing, that is the truth.

Very true Nina. Nobody realized that was the turning point. He himself mentioned that in an interview. Full credit to him.

Roger the Dodger
06-06-2012, 06:50 PM
TOP 20 MENTAL STRENGTH INDEX

Djokovic 2011 (Head & shoulders above - but never going to happen again)
-
-
Nadal 2012
Djokovic 2012
-
-
Ferrer Murray
-
Simon Isner
Federer
-
-
Del Potro
-
-
Tsonga Monaco Almagro
Nishikori
-
Dolgopolov
-------------
THE ABYSS
-------------
Fish Lopez Tipseravic
-
Monfils
-
-
Verdasco Berdych
-
-
-
PIT OF THE ABYSS
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
LionHeart

Nole fan
06-06-2012, 07:22 PM
Steve Tignor: (http://blogs.tennis.com/thewrap/2012/06/shutting-them-up.html)

The worst for Jo is still to come, in the tiebreaker. He wins four straight points, including one with a broken string, and another with a brilliant flick backhand crosscourt, to go up 4-2. But instead of continuing to attack, Tsonga backs up and hopes that Djokovic will miss. If there’s one thing we’ve learned about Djokovic over the last four majors, it’s that if he's up against a wall, he stops missing. It’s true again, as he comes back to win 8-6. Of particular note is the return of serve that he hits off a very good Tsonga delivery at 6-6; few other players in the world could have done it as well, and it draws a forehand error. This is, essentially, Djokovic's version of Federer’s “Shut up!” The crowd barely makes another peep, as a gutted Tsonga goes down 6-1 in the fifth.

What is it with Djokovic? His is not the traditional mental toughness, where every point is played with maximum persistence. His, like Serena Williams’ similar style of brinksmanship, is more of the daredevil variety; it’s an instinctive, rather than methodical, way of competing. Not surprisingly, Djokovic himself is at a loss to explain how he does it.

finishingmove
06-06-2012, 07:27 PM
Djokovic's version of Federer’s “Shut up!”

nuff said.

Voo de Mar
06-06-2012, 10:05 PM
Djokovic is mentally as good as Nicolas Lapentti but much more better in terms of power delivered from both wings: it's a type of player who very rarely loses a match being close to win and competes to the end no matter how inconvenient the things are.

I agree partially with a quote posted by NoleFan, in my opinion Djokovic's tremendous ability of winning complicated matches it's a mix of instinctive and methodical skills. I can't imagine Murray beating Federer in Djokovic's "US Open '11 style", so playing a return winner in reply on a good serve.

Physical preparation plays very important role as well, there was a guy who said in terms of sport "you're mentally very strong when you're physically very strong", and it's true - this year's Australian Open final against Rafa is the best exemplification of it.

nole_no1
06-06-2012, 10:09 PM
That is becoming more and more obvious. Once he saved those MPs versus Tsonga I knew the match was in the bag. Amazing.

This. And i bet we were not the only one thinking that way

Mountaindewslave
06-06-2012, 10:20 PM
see how great his mental strength is against Federer or Nadal this week not Clownga. and oh wait was his mental strength so vastly impressive against Seppi? really?

I agree he is very clutch at moments but in 2011 he was the strongest player mentally, this season I am somewhat skeptical

dazed1
06-06-2012, 10:23 PM
For me Nadal is the strongest player mentally.

Voo de Mar
06-06-2012, 10:26 PM
For me Nadal is the strongest player mentally.

IMO they are on very similar level of mental resistance, and it's the level which place them beside Borg in historical context.

Postpre
06-06-2012, 10:35 PM
Djokovic's mental strength, while considerable, is being blow out of proportion.

Yes, he's saved a bunch of match points at Slams. But, what's forgotten is how he got there in the first place.

For example, at the 2011 US Open against Fed, he played a dismal serving game at 4 all in the 5th to allow Federer to serve for the match.

When playing Nadal at the US Open and in Australia, he lost serve when serving for the match.

He's also struggled with the likes of Seppi and Tsonga when his mental strength should have elevated his game earlier.

He just swings freely on match points because he's consigned to the reality that he's probably going to lose. There's really no more pressure at this point.

Sure, Djokovic has shown himself mentally strong, but let's not get carried away here.

Matt01
06-06-2012, 10:37 PM
TOP 20 MENTAL STRENGTH INDEX

Djokovic 2011 (Head & shoulders above - but never going to happen again)
-
-
Nadal 2012
Djokovic 2012
-
-
Ferrer Murray
-
Simon Isner
Federer
-
-
Del Potro
-
-
Tsonga Monaco Almagro
Nishikori
-
Dolgopolov
-------------
THE ABYSS
-------------
Fish Lopez Tipseravic
-
Monfils
-
-
Verdasco Berdych
-
-
-
PIT OF THE ABYSS
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
LionHeart


Agree with some of them but not with Murray, unfortunately, as he's mentally very mediocre.
And who is Lionheart? I hope not Nadal who's missing :spit:

Allez
06-06-2012, 10:39 PM
Mental strength does not mean winning 6-0, 6-0, 6-0 every time :facepalm:

Nole fan
06-06-2012, 10:40 PM
Djokovic's mental strength, while considerable, is being blow out of proportion.

Yes, he's saved a bunch of match points at Slams. But, what's forgotten is how he got there in the first place.

For example, at the 2011 US Open against Fed, he played a dismal serving game at 4 all in the 5th to allow Federer to serve for the match.

When playing Nadal at the US Open and in Australia, he lost serve when serving for the match.

He's also struggled with the likes of Seppi and Tsonga when his mental strength should have elevated his game earlier.

He just swings freely on match points because he's consigned to the reality that he's probably going to lose. There's really no more pressure at this point.

Sure, Djokovic has shown himself mentally strong, but let's not get carried away here.

He specially becomes really tough and dangerous when he hasn't got anything to lose anymore: a fearless Djokovic is a victorious Djokovic. Being down MP is not the same that being down a break. Sure, he has mental lapses that put him in those situations in the first place, but when it comes to the definitve and decisive moments in a match he always delivers in a fearless and astonishing manner. That's what we are discussing here.

Postpre
06-06-2012, 10:47 PM
Sure, he has mental lapses that put him in those situations in the first place

I'd classify it more than mere mental lapses. In some moments, he didn't look very mentally strong at all.

when it comes to the definitve and decisive moments in a match he always delivers in a fearless and astonishing manner. That's what we are discussing here.

Mental strength encompasses more than just match points, though. To his credit, he has now proven that he can summon incredible mental strength in key moments (which he formerly could not). But, I'm afraid that it will be his inconsistency that will prevent him from acquiring an equal number of Slams as Rafa. The odds eventually catch up with you.

Voo de Mar
06-06-2012, 10:55 PM
^ As I said many times on this forum, the best guys play too many sets to avoid losing some of them from a comfortable position, there are around 90 matches for each of these players per year which means
~ 70 x 2-setters = 140 sets + 20 x 3-setters = 60 sets - they are supposed to play at least 200 sets in a year, so if someone expects that the best players will win all sets having a break ahead or all sets being either two or one point from taking a set is simply funny.

Djokovic played exactly 200 sets last year.

sexybeast
06-06-2012, 11:03 PM
TOP 20 MENTAL STRENGTH INDEX

Djokovic 2011 (Head & shoulders above - but never going to happen again)
-
-
Nadal 2012
Djokovic 2012
-
-
Ferrer Murray
-
Simon Isner
Federer
-
-
Del Potro
-
-
Tsonga Monaco Almagro
Nishikori
-
Dolgopolov
-------------
THE ABYSS
-------------
Fish Lopez Tipseravic
-
Monfils
-
-
Verdasco Berdych
-
-
-
PIT OF THE ABYSS
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-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
LionHeart

:lol: Ferrer and Murray mentally stronger than Federer? What a joke. Isner definetly deserves to be high up, Simon maybe but what is Murray and Ferrer doing so high up on that list?

Lee
06-06-2012, 11:54 PM
Agree with some of them but not with Murray, unfortunately, as he's mentally very mediocre.
And who is Lionheart? I hope not Nadal who's missing :spit:

Gasquet?

rocketassist
06-07-2012, 12:45 AM
Steve Tignor: (http://blogs.tennis.com/thewrap/2012/06/shutting-them-up.html)

That's why Tignor sucks.

Comparing him with a clown like Serena :eek:

Mr. Oracle
06-07-2012, 12:53 AM
He has the highest retirement rate of any player. Clutch isn't just saving match points its about battling even when your down or injured.


Spoken like a true stat tard. Have you been watching tennis over the last few years? If you take out last year's retirement in cincinatti for indisputable exhaustion and physical strain from having played twice as much tennis as his nearest competitor to date, you are left with a young kid nowhere near his peak. Sure some of the retirements have been questionable, but most haven't. He's fixed his breathing issues, and his gluten allergy, and folding is nowhere to be seen now. In fact its unimaginable. This is Nole 2.0 son, not ancient history!

It's like using Fed's temper in his early years as an example of his mental weakness today. That would be stupid though wouldn't it?

Mr. Oracle
06-07-2012, 01:00 AM
Djokovic's mental strength, while considerable, is being blow out of proportion.

Yes, he's saved a bunch of match points at Slams. But, what's forgotten is how he got there in the first place.

For example, at the 2011 US Open against Fed, he played a dismal serving game at 4 all in the 5th to allow Federer to serve for the match.

When playing Nadal at the US Open and in Australia, he lost serve when serving for the match.

He's also struggled with the likes of Seppi and Tsonga when his mental strength should have elevated his game earlier.

He just swings freely on match points because he's consigned to the reality that he's probably going to lose. There's really no more pressure at this point.

Sure, Djokovic has shown himself mentally strong, but let's not get carried away here.

There are so many flaws in your logic I don't know where to begin. From serving poorly as a supposed indicator of lack of mental strength, when its just about poor serving, or about patchy streaks of matches when we can see that even Nadal was beaten easily by soderling one year, and almost lost to isner recently at RG, and we don't use that as an indicator of his potential form.

This is trolling done relatively well though so I salute you.

"He just swings freely on match points because he's consigned to the reality that he's probably going to lose. There's really no more pressure at this point."

Um ok, but how did he do that 4 times against tsonga only recently? Winging it is low percentage play and you can only pull that off for so long before the UEs pile up. The odds are stacked against you. Maybe like Fed, you are more likely to crumble under the pressure instead of being fueled by it (Nole actually thrives on pressure), and so its hard for you to understand. I can't fault you for that.

Grace under pressure.

fivebargate
06-07-2012, 01:10 AM
This thread is doomed....mental strength is not a quantifiable quality.

For example, Nadal has always been great at saving break points. How much of this is mental strength? How much of it is that fact that playing lefthanded he has the advatage serving to righties on the ad court? Also....where does it sit on the mental strength scale that he doesn't avert the situation by playing the big point before it gets to break point. etc.

Regarding Fed....there is just no way you get to GOAT level without being mentally strong. It doesn't happen. All those times in his prime where he could always pull out the big serve to save himself....break at just the right point in the match....win tb's etc. Age brings diminishing returns in this department....but again, one must question how much of that is down to the external pressure of competition rather than that which goes on behind the ears. If you made a bucket list of all Fed's clutch moments and big game grits, it would be easy to argue that it was right up there.

Again Nole....notorious for retiring from big matches. Now famed for playing lights out tennis on the edge of the abyss. Clutch? Brave? Reckless? Who knows. Over a career, you certainly don't win all these moments...but there is no doubt right now that he has clarity of thought in those moments.

It's impossible to even define the includes and exclude of what constitutes mental strength, let alone to assess them on some ratifiable scale. It is purely one for the banter. In the end, you can only really look to results as the yardstick of a players holistic ability.

BroTree123
06-07-2012, 06:09 AM
Mental lapses aren't an indicator of overall weak mental strength. Grasping the match back into your control when you're really fucked, is true mental strength.

heya
06-07-2012, 06:54 AM
weak, unagile opponents did assist
djoko's attitude when he was sloppy.

if seppi or tsonga were consistent servers, novak would
lose his ranking to nadal & fed.

djoko was distracted by any injury he had last year so he was lethargic in the 2nd week of the us open.
he usually didn't take the basel tourney & year end championships seriously. he tried to be hero for the overzealous davis cup team; this proved to be humiliating. the davis cup match with del potro was predictable because there was no match. just the pathetic, gracious celebrity media circus.
teammates couldn't win...
novak stupidly showed up to sign autographs and collapsed from severe stress and pain on court.

he played poorly in indian wells, and looked embarrassed
with his handshake with isner.

he went to madrid with smiles even though he was in a mediocre mental & physical strength level.

in monte carlo, he obviously wanted to leave the stadium.

in madrid, he was steaming mad in the press conference about his fear of injury and surrendering to tipsarevic.

Allez
06-07-2012, 07:00 AM
:scratch:

heya
06-07-2012, 07:31 AM
f off

Allez
06-07-2012, 07:36 AM
:unsure:

Aloimeh
06-07-2012, 08:46 AM
weak, unagile opponents did assist
djoko's attitude when he was sloppy.

if seppi or tsonga were consistent servers, novak would
lose his ranking to nadal & fed.

djoko was distracted by any injury he had last year so he was lethargic in the 2nd week of the us open.
he usually didn't take the basel tourney & year end championships seriously. he tried to be hero for the overzealous davis cup team; this proved to be humiliating. the davis cup match with del potro was predictable because there was no match. just the pathetic, gracious celebrity media circus.
teammates couldn't win...
novak stupidly showed up to sign autographs and collapsed from severe stress and pain on court.

he played poorly in indian wells, and looked embarrassed
with his handshake with isner.

he went to madrid with smiles even though he was in a mediocre mental & physical strength level.

in monte carlo, he obviously wanted to leave the stadium.

in madrid, he was steaming mad in the press conference about his fear of injury and surrendering to tipsarevic.

And the conclusion is...?

I thought you like Djoko.

You are inscrutable, but very entertaining, Heya.

BroTree123
06-07-2012, 08:49 AM
:p

Mimi
06-07-2012, 09:12 AM
not before 2011. But since then, its true. In my eyes, equalled to or even surpassed rafa :yeah:

EddieNero
06-07-2012, 09:16 AM
Nadal's mental strength is immensely overrated. It's enough to watch how Nadal saves all of those MP which he's facing.
I have never seen him hitting a winner, he moonballs like in every other point and counts on a choke from the other side of the net.

Federer and Djoković both make winner attempts on match points, yet Roger tends to shank a lot more on those occassions.

Mimi
06-07-2012, 09:20 AM
Nadal's mental strength is immensely overrated. It's enough to watch how Nadal saves all of those MP which he's facing.
I have never seen him hitting a winner, he moonballs like in every other point and counts on a choke from the other side of the net.

Federer and Djoković both make winner attempts on match points, yet Roger tends to shank a lot more on those occassions.

for a person who doesn't have a powerful serve to save him out of trouble like Roger and Nole, if Rafa does not have strong mental toughness, and keep on fighting even when he was falling behind by a large margin, how could he won so many titles as a "moonballer"?

EddieNero
06-07-2012, 09:25 AM
for a person who doesn't have a powerful serve to save him out of trouble like Roger and Nole, if Rafa does not have strong mental toughness, and keep on fighting even when he was falling behind by a large margin, how could he won so many titles as a "moonballer"?

How many of those titles happened on fast surfaces? Exactly.

Mimi
06-07-2012, 09:46 AM
How many of those titles happened on fast surfaces? Exactly.

not many, Madrid 2005 was one of them and he was a finalist in Paris indoor and year end championship

and clay is arguably the surface of battle in hell. It requires patience and mental toughness, not even the greatest champion like pete had much success even though he has such a great serve (he has great mental toughness though)

Tutu
06-07-2012, 10:30 AM
that was a lucky shot. :shrug:
Complete bullshit.

Between all the examples both before and after of Djokovic saving match points, it's pretty obvious that regardless of how he played before that point, when he gets down MP he takes the initiative and makes sure that if he goes down, he goes down swinging, taking risks and leaves it all on the court. Djokovic is an incredible returner and if anyone could come up with that shot down MP, it's him.

rocketassist
06-07-2012, 10:33 AM
f off

:hearts:

Mimi
06-07-2012, 10:34 AM
He has the highest retirement rate of any player. Clutch isn't just saving match points its about battling even when your down or injured.
No way in hell can you say that when he only starts displaying being good in the "clutch" over the last year or two. It has to be over your career and in that respect he retired or quit more often than any top ten or top player i've ever seen.

In tennis when it think of clutch sampras, nadal, federer over their careers are what comes to mind.

agreed.

buzz
06-07-2012, 11:11 AM
and clay is arguably the surface of battle in hell. It requires patience and mental toughness, not even the greatest champion like pete had much success even though he has such a great serve (he has great mental toughness though)

:confused: what a bullshit example:)

Vida
06-07-2012, 11:39 AM
it swings both ways.

he is prone to loosing momentum often. gets rattled by unsettling circumstances quite easily. needs perfect conditions to play a perfect match. if not riding a wave of confidence he just doesnt play consistently well for entire match.

on the other hand djoko does poses immense inner strength, which probably comes from the position of being (or feeling) underprivileged.

Nole fan
06-07-2012, 11:46 AM
Heya sure is a puzzling poster. :spit:

Wing Man Frank
06-07-2012, 11:53 AM
see how great his mental strength is against Federer or Nadal this week not Clownga. and oh wait was his mental strength so vastly impressive against Seppi? really?

I agree he is very clutch at moments but in 2011 he was the strongest player mentally, this season I am somewhat skeptical

How can you beat him with a stick over the Seppi match? He was playing pretty badly and was up against someone playing the best match of his career, was 2 sets down and still found a way to come out of the match with a win.

Some of you really need to engage your brains before you post.

Nole fan
06-07-2012, 11:56 AM
How can you beat him with a stick over the Seppi match? He was playing pretty badly and was up against someone playing the best match of his career, was 2 sets down and still found a way to come out of the match with a win.

Some of you really need to engage your brains before you post.

Oh he's a Nole hater, don't mind him... he will just say anything to discredit him. Pathetic rafatard. :o

Shinoj
06-07-2012, 12:00 PM
I do understand with the OP very much and i do think that Djokovic has incredible Mental Strength.

But i do think he makes it more difficult for himself to get into those situations in the first place. For example in the second Set against Tsonga, He was leading 4-2 and right at that time Tsonga was beginning to play aggressive. Just at that Moment Novak could have matched tsonga and could have Nipped in the Bud, so as to speak. It wouldnt have gone much longer.

Just a fact that i observed when he was Match Point down against Tsonga.

At that point Djokovic had won 130 something points and tsonga in 120. there was a Clear Daylight between them when he was Match Point down. It shows that despite being the Superior player he was somehow Match Point down. So clealy there is a scope for Improvement.

Similarly in all of the Titanic matches that he had,Against Federer in US Open, Against Nadal in AO Open, He somehow got defensive when the Opponent was at his aggresive best. Federer started very aggrevively in Last Years US Open. He could have matched that. Afterall he was very aggresive from the 3rd Set Onwards. So why didnt he play that Aggressive tennis from the Start itself. It saves for a lot of energy in hindsight.

Nole fan
06-07-2012, 12:03 PM
Djokovic's aggression influencing the next generation (http://www.thetennisspace.com/opinion/djokovics-aggression-influencing-the-next-generation/)

Novak Djokovic’s ultra-aggressive approach when he is facing match points – he saved four of them in his quarter-final with Jo-Wilfried Tsonga by taking big swings of his racket – is influencing the next generation. Grigor Dimitrov, one of the most gifted young players on the tour, told The Tennis Space what he has learnt from watching Djokovic in Paris – you “mustn’t pull back at the big moments”.

Thanks to Djokovic, Dimitrov and his contemporaries could also be a generation of risk-takers – the Bulgarian has always been a player who likes to play some shots, and he sounded extremely encouraged by what he saw the other night at Roland Garros.

“To be a top player, you have to keep going for your shots on the big points, and that’s what Djokovic did. You can’t pull back at the big moments,” said Dimitrov, a former world junior number one, and one of the Longines Rising Tennis Stars, who was speaking at the launch of this week’s Longines Future Tennis Aces at Roland Garros. “Djokovic went for his shots, and that’s why he’s a top player. That’s what he always does at the big moments, and that’s what you need to do to be winning those sorts of matches. I think most people now recognise that Djokovic is not afraid to go for his shots.”

tennizen
06-07-2012, 12:41 PM
Mental strength doesn't come out of nowhere imo. It is accumulative. If you do it once, the next time it becomes easier and so on. But it can vanish as suddenly and there is no way to view it in isolation.

With Djokovic, it seems like he cannot keep up his focus for long periods of time unlike Nadal and it seems like he accepts/manages these downtimes especially in slams and makes sure to up his focus when it becomes really critical.

dazed1
06-07-2012, 01:36 PM
Nadal's mental strength is immensely overrated. It's enough to watch how Nadal saves all of those MP which he's facing.


Dude, that's his style of playing, many of us don't like it, but imho he is mentally very strong, and i'm Federer fan.

Voo de Mar
06-07-2012, 02:47 PM
Djokovic's aggression influencing the next generation (http://www.thetennisspace.com/opinion/djokovics-aggression-influencing-the-next-generation/)

Novak Djokovic’s ultra-aggressive approach when he is facing match points – he saved four of them in his quarter-final with Jo-Wilfried Tsonga by taking big swings of his racket – is influencing the next generation. Grigor Dimitrov, one of the most gifted young players on the tour, told The Tennis Space what he has learnt from watching Djokovic in Paris – you “mustn’t pull back at the big moments”.

Thanks to Djokovic, Dimitrov and his contemporaries could also be a generation of risk-takers – the Bulgarian has always been a player who likes to play some shots, and he sounded extremely encouraged by what he saw the other night at Roland Garros.

[...]

Dimitrov juxtaposed with Djokovic :facepalm:

The Bulgarian said nothing except well known truisms. The players are better athletes, the equipment is more modern but some things are the same in different tennis generations, one of them is attacking style when you're down characteristic for the tennis elite, the best players of the 80's did it as well as the best of the 90's and 00's. In the 70's it looked a bit different because wooden racquets were used and control of the ball was much more tougher.

Deathless Mortal
06-11-2012, 01:07 PM
Bump.

HelenShivers
06-11-2012, 01:09 PM
double faulting on MP, LMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAO.

Chase Visa
06-11-2012, 01:10 PM
:superlol:

GOAT = Fed
06-11-2012, 01:12 PM
Yep the GOAT clutch player, the one who double faults when going for a NCYGS

NadalesDios
06-11-2012, 01:14 PM
Ou yeah!!!! :lol:

Matt01
06-11-2012, 01:15 PM
:lol:

jaymon112
06-11-2012, 01:15 PM
Klutch Mothathucka!! :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Wing Man Frank
06-11-2012, 01:15 PM
He screws up once and the Rafa tards are out in force. :lol:

Fireballer
06-11-2012, 01:22 PM
Rafa did it twice in his cheating carrer too

AntiTennis
06-11-2012, 01:24 PM
you guys are very bad :awww:...but..DF in CP in a grand slam..wtf :haha:

TBkeeper
06-11-2012, 01:26 PM
Yep the GOAT clutch player, the one who double faults when going for a NCYGS

Djokobitchtards again Raging :D:D:D

Backhand_Maestro
06-11-2012, 01:27 PM
you guys are very bad :awww:...but..DF in CP in a grand slam..wtf :haha:

Jim 'noletard' Courier blames the fans . .

Strong Wilanders, Novak

BroTree123
06-11-2012, 01:27 PM
El Em Eff Ay Oh.

Johnny Groove
06-11-2012, 01:40 PM
Still guts to go for a big 2nd serve match point down. If he had missed in the net it would have been worse, but he served it just long, so no shame.

hiperborejac
06-11-2012, 02:08 PM
Still guts to go for a big 2nd serve match point down. If he had missed in the net it would have been worse, but he served it just long, so no shame.

This! He went for T-line, it would be service winner or short ball of Rafa's backhand, so unfortunate...

Deathless Mortal
06-11-2012, 02:17 PM
This! He went for T-line, it would be service winner or short ball of Rafa's backhand, so unfortunate...

What? It was not a strong serve, and Rafa got around his backhand and was ready to hit a well prepared forehand return.

Sophocles
06-11-2012, 02:19 PM
Live by the sword, die by the sword. His serve wasn't working all match, so it was a fitting end. In fact the only match I remember him serving well was the semi against Fed.

Absolute Anthropoid
06-11-2012, 02:20 PM
I think Djoko DFed on two BPs in the first set, then of course we have the wonderful DF on match point (he did in Rome as well).

It's really sick how much he does this.

Jamoz
06-11-2012, 02:20 PM
Live by the sword, die by the sword. His serve wasn't working all match, so it was a fitting end. In fact the only match I remember him serving well was the semi against Fed.

Yeah, they all play better when facing Federer :mad: (including Nadal)

Roger the Dodger
06-11-2012, 02:22 PM
Mental strength doesn't come out of nowhere imo. It is accumulative. If you do it once, the next time it becomes easier and so on. But it can vanish as suddenly and there is no way to view it in isolation.

With Djokovic, it seems like he cannot keep up his focus for long periods of time unlike Nadal and it seems like he accepts/manages these downtimes especially in slams and makes sure to up his focus when it becomes really critical.

Great post. And one of the reasons why Novak lost his break of serve advantage today. Whereas, from the other side of the net, Nadull was already playing from the start like it was matchpoint.

Deathless Mortal
06-11-2012, 02:22 PM
In fact the only match I remember him serving well was the semi against Fed.

Only in the third set IMO :shrug:

LiamMFC
06-11-2012, 02:22 PM
I was a poor double fault, but doesn't necessarily have to be down to mental fragility. Right enough, I had a gut feeling looking at him that he was a little resigned when it went to championship point for Nadal and knew that Rafa was going to win it. Which is strange, because of late he's been allergic to the idea of admitting defeat :S

Deathless Mortal
06-11-2012, 02:23 PM
I was a poor double fault

Cheer up mate, don't be so harsh on yourself.

Mark Lenders
06-11-2012, 02:24 PM
Well, Nole is strong mentally but he's not infallible of course.

It's still amazing how he even reached the final. A player of lesser mental strength would have been sent packing by Tsonga in the QF. It was sensational how he got out of that one.

Asadinator
06-11-2012, 03:36 PM
Djokovic loses his cool against lesser players heaps of times to be considered mentally the best. This is something Federer and Nadal to so so well, they keep it under control against lesser players.

But Federer is mentally weak against Nadal, and Nadal is mentally weak against Djokovic. You could see it in this final, even when Djokovic was playing like absolute shit, Nadal was still afraid of him, pushing and retrieving for most of the match, whereas against Federer he's so much more proactive.


The top 3 all are mentally strong, but in different ways:
Federer is arrogant and calm
Nadal is relentless in his concentration
Djokovic is the fighter who's not afraid to show emotion

No wonder they have 32 slams between them.

Houstonko
06-11-2012, 03:39 PM
Great post. And one of the reasons why Novak lost his break of serve advantage today. Whereas, from the other side of the net, Nadull was already playing from the start like it was matchpoint.

IMO the rain delay destroyed Djokovic. Nadal fitness is poorer at 3rd hour. If they continue i doubt Nadal is responding.

BroTree123
06-11-2012, 03:54 PM
Cheer up mate, don't be so harsh on yourself.

:haha:

Mercury
06-11-2012, 04:01 PM
Watching the game I was actually screaming for it not to end on a DF... No Slam should be won by a DF and there was a scent of a DF in the air. Don't really know why after Nole's incredible play on MPs down VS Tsonga.

A shame really.

ProdigyEng
04-24-2013, 01:41 AM
Djoko King is GOD

swisht4u
04-24-2013, 02:00 AM
Djoko King is GOD

:lol:


Djokovic is going to do all he can to take Nadal's scalp on clay.

It could be a new clay king is being born.

HKz
04-24-2013, 03:03 AM
Don't think I responded in this thread, however, Novak definitely is a very clutch player. It is hilarious considering when he is down, when you look at his face and his body language he almost appears as if he doesn't necessarily care. This is ironically perhaps what he is thinking which would allow him to play freely during mentally tough situations.

All time though? I would still go with Pete here for clutch. While Pete had his flaws, if given a single match on any surface he was unbeatable hence why his worst H2H record was merely 4-6 and he was still beating all the top players even on clay. I mean he beat Muster, Courier and Bruguera just to name a few at Roland Garros. Obviously he had a lot of really odd losses especially at the French Open where he lost to some relatively unknown players.

Mountaindewslave
04-24-2013, 03:39 AM
:lol:


Djokovic is going to do all he can to take Nadal's scalp on clay.

It could be a new clay king is being born.

too late for a new 'king' Djokovic is 26 now time is against him BUT could be a new clay prince for sure

Kyle_Johansen
04-24-2013, 05:08 AM
IMO the rain delay destroyed Djokovic. Nadal fitness is poorer at 3rd hour. If they continue i doubt Nadal is responding.

Didn't the rain delay help Djokovic in that match? Wasn't it after the rain that he won the third set?

Mr. Oracle
04-24-2013, 05:24 AM
These days you have to beat Djoker if you want a slam title. The chance of him going Shankerer out of the blue is remote. You must take it from him.

Probably the GOAT with regards to clutch play, although Rafa ranks right up there, tuff call.

Radalek
04-24-2013, 02:29 PM
From another thread:

MP 'saved/choked' match ratio:

Nadal .643 (9-5)
Djokovic .833 (10-2)
Federer .440 (11-13)

MP 'saved/choked' point ratio:

Nadal .590 (23-16)
Djokovic .833 (30-6)
Federer .508 (30-29)

Ziggy B
04-24-2013, 02:33 PM
Djockovic is as more clutch than a gearbox, worryingly good at big points. The last 4-5 games at US Open 2011 against Fed left me open mouthed, feeling sick and began my admiration for his "Spartan" mentality.

Sri
04-24-2013, 03:05 PM
From another thread:

MP 'saved/choked' match ratio:

Nadal .643 (9-5)
Djokovic .833 (10-2)
Federer .440 (11-13)

MP 'saved/choked' point ratio:

Nadal .590 (23-16)
Djokovic .833 (30-6)
Federer .508 (30-29)
Comparing these ratios with Federer will be interesting when Nadal and Djokovic have declined from their peak years but have continued to play on tour in their early 30's.

GSMnadal
04-24-2013, 03:06 PM
Comparing these ratios with Federer will be interesting when Nadal and Djokovic have declined from their peak years but have continued to play on tour in their early 30's.

Federer's ratio was never even close to those numbers.

zeleni
04-24-2013, 03:38 PM
giocovich is a believer.;)

Kite Flyer
04-24-2013, 05:37 PM
2006 to 2010 choker
2011 and 2013 mental giant
noserer and nadal decline has no effect
only at MTF

Radalek
04-25-2013, 03:07 PM
2006 to 2010 choker
2011 and 2013 mental giant
noserer and nadal decline has no effect
only at MTF

Implying Djokovic having stats above is only 2011-2013, or implying mental strength only counts against 2 players...only at MTF.

Chris Kuerten
04-25-2013, 03:24 PM
Frauderer is only clutch against giants like Falla, Ramirez Hidalgo and Ginepri.

Put him against a relevant player and he looks like a clown :rolleyes:

Fedalovic
04-25-2013, 03:47 PM
Frauderer is only clutch against giants like Falla, Ramirez Hidalgo and Ginepri.

Put him against a relevant player and he looks like a clown :rolleyes:
Yeah, quite similar to the current World #4

Chris Kuerten
04-25-2013, 03:49 PM
Yeah, quite similar to the current World #4Comparing Federer's game to Ferrer's? Desperate much? LOL

Fedalovic
04-25-2013, 03:53 PM
Comparing Federer's game to Ferrer's? Desperate much? LOL
Is that not what you were doing? A player who has won 17 grand slams must have beaten plenty of "relevant" players, on some clutch occasions. Certainly better than Ferrer, who tried to outchoke Murray in that Miami chokefest. Didn't win a single set against fed in WTF last year when he had 9 billion chances. You can almost rely on him choking on important occasions against any member of the real top 4.

Chris Kuerten
04-25-2013, 04:01 PM
Is that not what you were doing? A player who has won 17 grand slams must have beaten plenty of "relevant" players, on some clutch occasions. Certainly better than Ferrer, who tried to outchoke Murray in that Miami chokefest. Didn't win a single set against fed in WTF last year when he had 9 billion chances. You can almost rely on him choking on important occasions against any member of the real top 4.You know it's bad when you have to drag Ferrer into a discussion in order to justify Federer's mental weakness, LOL. Ferrer doesn't have the weapons to challenge the top 3, which you are mistaking for choking, but I appreciate you putting him on the same level als Rlolger. Let's just deal with the facts here: MP 'saved/choked' match ratio:

Nadal .643 (9-5)
Djokovic .833 (10-2)
Federer .440 (11-13)

MP 'saved/choked' point ratio:

Nadal .590 (23-16)
Djokovic .833 (30-6)
Federer .508 (30-29)And that is including the TITAN ERA in which he had to battle past champions like Roddick, Philippoussis, Hewitt, Gonzalez and Baghdatis to win his Grand Slams. And don't get me started on his BP conversion rates against Nadal, HAHA!

Fedalovic
04-25-2013, 04:16 PM
You know it's bad when you have to drag Ferrer into a discussion in order to justify Federer's mental weakness, LOL. Ferrer doesn't have the weapons to challenge the top 3, which you are mistaking for choking, but I appreciate you putting him on the same level als Rlolger. Let's just deal with the facts here: And that is including the TITAN ERA in which he had to battle past champions like Roddick, Philippoussis, Hewitt, Gonzalez and Baghdatis to win his Grand Slams. And don't get me started on his BP conversion rates against Nadal, HAHA!
Because 40 odd points in a career consisting of over 800 matches (and a whole lot more points) should determine how clutch you are.
Good to see you admit that Ferrer is a weaponless mug. But even a weaponless mug like him has had so many chances against the top 3. Considering that, his abysmal record against Roger is quite inexcusable. So now you're resorting to the "weak era" fallacy, which so many people have proven to be false. This era is certainly no titan era either, when a washed up Robredo wins a 250.

Fedalovic
04-25-2013, 04:19 PM
Nadal has quite a simple formula he can use to save BP's against Roger. Keep putting pressure on his BH and eventually Roger will miss - it's not quite a mental strength issue as much as a match-up issue.

Chris Kuerten
04-25-2013, 04:39 PM
Because 40 odd points in a career consisting of over 800 matches (and a whole lot more points) should determine how clutch you are.
Good to see you admit that Ferrer is a weaponless mug. But even a weaponless mug like him has had so many chances against the top 3. Considering that, his abysmal record against Roger is quite inexcusable. So now you're resorting to the "weak era" fallacy, which so many people have proven to be false. This era is certainly no titan era either, when a washed up Robredo wins a 250.The whole stat is to show Federer folds when it gets tough. It's easy to be a mental giant when you're playing against titan top 5 players like James Blake, but when he faces real competition it's a sad sight. Wow, a weaponless mug like Ferrer getting many chances against the top 3? MUST BE THE WEAKEST ERA OF ALL TIME! Robredo winning a 250 is so irrelevant in this discussion it makes me cry, HOW ARE 250'S A SIGN OF WEAK OR STRONG ERA'S?Nadal has quite a simple formula he can use to save BP's against Roger. Keep putting pressure on his BH and eventually Roger will miss - it's not quite a mental strength issue as much as a match-up issue.1/12, 1/13 and 1/17 BP conversion rates are MATCH-UP ISSUES? Now I've really heard it all. But I see you took the easy way out by just starting to support the entire top 3, LOL!

And it's not only against Nadal, let me put some more FACTS out there, he is consistently amongst the bottom three in the top 10 when it's about BP conversion.

Fedalovic
04-25-2013, 04:57 PM
The whole stat is to show Federer folds when it gets tough. It's easy to be a mental giant when you're playing against titan top 5 players like James Blake, but when he faces real competition it's a sad sight. Wow, a weaponless mug like Ferrer getting many chances against the top 3? MUST BE THE WEAKEST ERA OF ALL TIME! Robredo winning a 250 is so irrelevant in this discussion it makes me cry, HOW ARE 250'S A SIGN OF WEAK OR STRONG ERA'S?1/12, 1/13 and 1/17 BP conversion rates are MATCH-UP ISSUES? Now I've really heard it all. But I see you took the easy way out by just starting to support the entire top 3, LOL!

And it's not only against Nadal, let me put some more FACTS out there, he is consistently amongst the bottom three in the top 10 when it's about BP conversion.
You want more evidence? How about 35 year old Haas beating Djokovic on his favorite surface.
See, the point is that debating about "strong" or "weak" eras will only lead to logical paradoxes. Once you start adding asterisks to slams you wouldn't stop. A slam is a slam, period. When you have to play 7 matches against the rest of the field it evens out.
Sure, as if a 31 year old Roger is representative of his true, peak form. If you want to talk about clutchness why not talk about his tiebreak record. People on this forum like to simplify things. Clutchness is a multidimensional concept - if Djokovic is truly clutch he wouldn't lose 7-5 sets and DF on Nadal's MP. I concede that Federer has gotten mentally weaker - so what? He's 31, he's bound to have mental lapses, give him a break.
Unlike you, I'm a tennis fan, not some Ferrer fanatic who likes to launch ad-hominem attacks willy nilly.

Chris Kuerten
04-25-2013, 05:10 PM
Who cares if Haas beat Djokovic? Wake me up when players like Philippoussis, Schuettler, Puerta and Baghdatis start reaching slam finals. Oh wait, that doesn't happen in this STRONG era.

And supporting the entire top 3 is glory hunting, not being a tennis fan :superlol:

stewietennis
04-25-2013, 11:22 PM
A lot of discussion about clutch being about winning from a losing position - snatching a victory from certain defeat.
Clutch is also closing out a match when you're in a winning position - preventing a loss from certain victory.

Mr. Oracle
04-26-2013, 12:52 AM
A lot of discussion about clutch being about winning from a losing position - snatching a victory from certain defeat.
Clutch is also closing out a match when you're in a winning position - preventing a loss from certain victory.

We saw the saved match points percentages which was cool :hatoff:

Hopefully we can see the "closing out" stats now too? Any math nerds in da house? :lol:

Mr. Oracle
04-26-2013, 01:01 AM
And supporting the entire top 3 is glory hunting, not being a tennis fan :superlol:

In finance, it's called "hedging."

Smart way to cover all the bases if you're hooked on getting glory. We have a few of those guys here at MTF! :rolls:

and,

Those who pride themselves in being non-hatas. They're usually young teenage girls who exhange BFF friendship bracelets. Cute. :lol: They don't want to hear that Fed tried to humour himself in the weak era by convincing Roddick to let him win, over and over again :lol:

vpmrosulate
04-26-2013, 01:11 AM
A lot of discussion about clutch being about winning from a losing position - snatching a victory from certain defeat.
Clutch is also closing out a match when you're in a winning position - preventing a loss from certain victory.

True. This also reminds me of the Kobe-Lebron debate. The former makes clutch shots to win close games, but the latter usually made sure it never even got that close that one shot could determine it.

ProdigyEng
04-26-2013, 01:17 AM
In finance, it's called "hedging."

Smart way to cover all the bases if you're hooked on getting glory. We have a few of those guys here at MTF! :rolls:

and,

Those who pride themselves in being non-hatas. They're usually young teenage girls who exhange BFF friendship bracelets. Cute. :lol: They don't want to hear that Fed tried to humour himself in the weak era by convincing Roddick to let him win, over and over again :lol:

D0bar

Yolita
04-26-2013, 02:21 AM
2006 to 2010 choker
2011 and 2013 mental giant
noserer and nadal decline has no effect
only at MTF

Novak was never a choker: he wouldn't have kept the year-end #3 for 4 straight years, starting at 20.

In 2007, when he was barely 20, he faced Roger Federer, then #1 player at his peak, aged 26, in the final of the Canada Masters. Novak saved 5 or 6 SPs in the first set, to take it in a TB... He was practically a teenager... That doesn't sound like choking to me... And Roger was at his peak... Just saying. ;)

Yolita
04-26-2013, 02:27 AM
Is that not what you were doing? A player who has won 17 grand slams must have beaten plenty of "relevant" players, on some clutch occasions. Certainly better than Ferrer, who tried to outchoke Murray in that Miami chokefest. Didn't win a single set against fed in WTF last year when he had 9 billion chances. You can almost rely on him choking on important occasions against any member of the real top 4.

How many multiple-slam winners did Roger beat for his 17 grand slam titles?

Novak beat 6: Roger in AO 2008, Roger in AO 2011, Rafa in Wimbledon 2011, Roger in USO 2011, Rafa in USO 2011, Rafa in AO 2012...And he only has 6 grand slams.

Kyle_Johansen
04-26-2013, 03:41 AM
GK, stop being a total dick. Federer is among the clutchest players ever and to say otherwise makes you a fool. Australian Open 2006 was one of the most clutch performances ever at a GS. What about FO2009, Miami 2005, Wimbledon 2009, USO2008, Wimbledon 2007, USO 2007, USO 2004, AO2004, USO2005, US2006, and many other very clutch performances Federer has had over the course of his career? He never had no competitions at Slams, only fools like you think so. Baghdatis and Gonzalez played the tennis of their lives. Blake was one point away from being 2-1 up in sets at USO2006. He had bad records vs Nalbandian and Hewitt befotre AO2004 when he overcame those obstacles to become #1 and cement his place at the top.

stewietennis
04-26-2013, 04:21 AM
How many multiple-slam winners did Roger beat for his 17 grand slam titles?

Novak beat 6: Roger in AO 2008, Roger in AO 2011, Rafa in Wimbledon 2011, Roger in USO 2011, Rafa in USO 2011, Rafa in AO 2012...And he only has 6 grand slams.

2004 AO - beat Hewitt
2004 Wimbledon - beat Hewitt
2004 US Open - beat Agassi & Hewitt
2005 Wimbledon - beat Hewitt
2005 US Open - beat Hewitt & Agassi
2006 Wimbledon - beat Nadal
2007 Wimbledon - beat Nadal & Safin
2010 AO - beat Hewitt
2012 Wimbledon - beat Djokovic

So, if you count the same people multiple times, it looks like Federer beat 12 multiple slam winners for his 17 titles.

Federer defeated five different multiple slam winners - Agassi, Hewitt, Safin, Nadal & Djokovic.
Djokvoic beat two - Federer and Nadal.

bouncer7
04-26-2013, 04:59 AM
2004 AO - beat Hewitt
2004 Wimbledon - beat Hewitt
2004 US Open - beat Agassi & Hewitt
2005 Wimbledon - beat Hewitt
2005 US Open - beat Hewitt & Agassi
2006 Wimbledon - beat Nadal
2007 Wimbledon - beat Nadal & Safin
2010 AO - beat Hewitt
2012 Wimbledon - beat Djokovic

So, if you count the same people multiple times, it looks like Federer beat 12 multiple slam winners for his 17 titles.

Federer defeated five different multiple slam winners - Agassi, Hewitt, Safin, Nadal & Djokovic.
Djokvoic beat two - Federer and Nadal.

LOL clown. How many times djokovic won over Hewitt at AO?

Fedmug max is to beat 2slam wonders like safina, hewitt or baby Nadal, or 40y/o Agassi, cause that was very WEAK era, probably worst transitional era ever in tennis history.

While Djokovic in his first winning slam was spanking someone with 12 slams.

Do you see difference now clown :) djokovic can win over 11 Slams Nadal, while fedmug max is to beat baby Nadal with 2-3 slams.


Actually Fedmug max in to beat 5 Slams Djokovic and grandpa with 8 slams. What a weak player, disgrace for human race.

swisht4u
04-26-2013, 05:12 AM
Djokovic has great mental strength most can agree.

I would never compare him to younger Fed as far as level of play though.
Fed was once in a lifetime player.

Fed took the #1 back from Djokovic just last year when Djokovic was at his prime while Fed already had declined quite a bit.

Mr. Oracle
04-26-2013, 05:14 AM
Djokovic has great mental strength most can agree.

I would never compare him to younger Fed as far as level of play though.
Fed was once in a lifetime player.

Fed took the #1 back from Djokovic just last year when Djokovic was at his prime while Fed already had declined quite a bit.

yeah, djoker had to defend 6 trillion points from 2011, and after winning every tournament known to man :rolleyes:

swisht4u
04-26-2013, 05:19 AM
yeah, djoker had to defend 6 trillion points from 2011, and after winning every tournament known to man :rolleyes:

Fed took the #1 while Djokovic was at his prime and Nadal was very strong at that time.
Fed got the Wimbledon too and even a silver medal. All of this with diminished skills.

It's in the books.

Djokovic isn't even on the radar for slams or weeks #1.
Djokovic needs 11 slams, or what Nadal has made his whole career.

Just wanted to set the record straight. :wavey:

swisht4u
04-26-2013, 05:31 AM
Part of having great mental strength is keeping your level of play high the whole year.
In that area Djokovic has fallen down some even in his best year.

The year winning percentage show this kind of mental strength and also the distribution of losses, not all at the beginning and not all at the end.


Federer is the only player in many years to keep his level high all year long, check the records.

Djokovic still needs to work on this area.

heya
04-26-2013, 05:37 AM
Djoker was too busy promoting different events and not getting ready for the autumn tournaments in 2009-2011. That's why he had long matches and injury.
It's a little easier now that he realizes he requires
mental focus for every match. He'll deserve the victories more than Federer's so-called 2003-2008 strong matches. Hewitt and Roddick (Lol, unable to play clay matches), Safin was injured half the decade and Fernando Gonzalez showed up only for the Olympics & Davis Cup (at least more than Federina).

swisht4u
04-26-2013, 05:46 AM
Djoker was too busy promoting different events and not getting ready for the autumn tournaments in 2009-2011. That's why he had long matches and injury.
It's a little easier now that he realizes he requires
mental focus for every match. He'll deserve the victories more than Federer's so-called 2003-2008 strong matches. Hewitt and Roddick (Lol, unable to play clay matches), Safin was injured half the decade and Fernando Gonzalez showed up only for the Olympics & Davis Cup (at least more than Federina).

It's OK. I have nothing against Djokovic. I root for him at times.

He is stronger than Fed in clutch times I admit, like winning 5/6 last games against Nadal in the AO final 5th set. That was probably the greatest showing of clutch tennis I ever saw. :)

No one is the best at all areas, so even though I support Fed I have to admit Djokovic is stronger in certain areas.

I wish more posters would admit to some of their players weaknesses, no shame in that as no player is the best everywhere. :)

stewietennis
04-26-2013, 06:25 AM
LOL clown. How many times djokovic won over Hewitt at AO?

Fedmug max is to beat 2slam wonders like safina, hewitt or baby Nadal, or 40y/o Agassi, cause that was very WEAK era, probably worst transitional era ever in tennis history.

While Djokovic in his first winning slam was spanking someone with 12 slams.

Do you see difference now clown :) djokovic can win over 11 Slams Nadal, while fedmug max is to beat baby Nadal with 2-3 slams.


Actually Fedmug max in to beat 5 Slams Djokovic and grandpa with 8 slams. What a weak player, disgrace for human race.

I don't know what to make of the post above. :rolleyes: The question was:

How many multiple-slam winners did Roger beat for his 17 grand slam titles?

AFAIK, 2 slam winners are multiple slam winners, so what's the problem when it's mentioned that Federer beat Safin, Agassi, Hewitt…etc for his majors? :rolleyes:

While Djokovic in his first winning slam was spanking someone with 12 slams.

If the criteria for greatness is winning your first major against a legend with double digit slams, then that player would need to be fortunate enough to play said legend at the decline of their career ala Hewitt vs Sampras (13 majors) or Del Potro vs Federer (15 majors) or run into Federer 2008 (who was demolished in AO, FO, lost Wimbledon and didn't win any Masters that year). In this regard, neither Federer nor Nadal would qualify, but Hewitt and Del Potro would be greater than Djokovic, which doesn't make sense. But as I said, I don't know what to make of the post above. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

MIMIC
04-26-2013, 06:51 AM
2006 to 2010 choker
2011 and 2013 mental giant
noserer and nadal decline has no effect
only at MTF

I know! They dropped a whooping ONE SPOT EACH in the rankings! :eek:

heya
04-26-2013, 06:58 AM
stewietennis
You're ridiculing Djoker fans? Make of what? You don't question Fed fanboys who claim Sampras was too great for Djoker, despite the fact that Djoker had win streaks on different surfaces plus numerous Masters titles, including ones against the best clay player in 40 years.

Nadal may not have inflated Slam counts vs. Muller, Robredo, Falla, Benneteau, Haas, Del Potro, Davydenko, Roddick, Hewitt, etc. but he won many long matches. Sampras & Fed had trouble winning Masters events, long marathons and Davis Cup 5 setters.

ciprianned
04-26-2013, 08:50 AM
Djokovic's mental strength is incredible

Answer : AGREE :)

Mimi
04-26-2013, 09:03 AM
agreed. Rafa was the best though :ras:

Honestly
04-26-2013, 09:13 AM
LOL clown. How many times djokovic won over Hewitt at AO?

Fedmug max is to beat 2slam wonders like safina, hewitt or baby Nadal, or 40y/o Agassi, cause that was very WEAK era, probably worst transitional era ever in tennis history.

While Djokovic in his first winning slam was spanking someone with 12 slams.

Do you see difference now clown :) djokovic can win over 11 Slams Nadal, while fedmug max is to beat baby Nadal with 2-3 slams.


Actually Fedmug max in to beat 5 Slams Djokovic and grandpa with 8 slams. What a weak player, disgrace for human race.

LOL clown. Let me educate you. When a player is so dominant that he allows no one else to win slams it doesn't mean it's a weak era. It means the player is dominant. If anything that era was stronger than the current era. 30- year old Fed schooling peak Djoke at the 2011 FO semi is one example. 35-year old Haas schooling peak Djoke in straights in Miami is another.

Wing Man Frank
04-26-2013, 09:22 AM
LOL clown. Let me educate you. When a player is so dominant that he allows no one else to win slams it doesn't mean it's a weak era. It means the player is dominant.

Theoretically that is correct. In practice it isn't.

The 2003-07 era was super weak.

Honestly
04-26-2013, 09:31 AM
Theoretically that is correct. In practice it isn't.

The 2003-07 era was super weak.

Negative.

Next.

bokehlicious
04-26-2013, 09:39 AM
LOL clown. Let me educate you. When a player is so dominant that he allows no one else to win slams it doesn't mean it's a weak era. It means the player is dominant.

That is stating the obvious to anyone with two brain cells. Most mtfers aren't that gifted though.

Wing Man Frank
04-26-2013, 09:57 AM
That is stating the obvious to anyone with two brain cells. Most mtfers aren't that gifted though.

You are speaking from personal experience, that's for sure.

Honestly
04-26-2013, 10:14 AM
You are speaking from personal experience, that's for sure.

What are you saying? That he has 2 brain cells? Thanks for agreeing with us :yeah:

uxyzapenje
04-26-2013, 10:14 AM
2004 AO - beat Hewitt
2004 Wimbledon - beat Hewitt
2004 US Open - beat Agassi & Hewitt
2005 Wimbledon - beat Hewitt
2005 US Open - beat Hewitt & Agassi
2006 Wimbledon - beat Nadal
2007 Wimbledon - beat Nadal & Safin
2010 AO - beat Hewitt
2012 Wimbledon - beat Djokovic

So, if you count the same people multiple times, it looks like Federer beat 12 multiple slam winners for his 17 titles.

Federer defeated five different multiple slam winners - Agassi, Hewitt, Safin, Nadal & Djokovic.
Djokvoic beat two - Federer and Nadal.

Djokovic also beat Hewitt twice in his Slam runs - AO 2008 and AO 2011.

So 12 wins for 17 Slams vs 8 wins for 6 Slams. The 2nd one sounds harder to me :shrug:

GSMnadal
04-26-2013, 11:23 AM
Having to beat Hewitt is hardly a sign of a tough draw :rolleyes:

And neither is a 35 year old Agassi

Sophocles
04-26-2013, 11:30 AM
If the pre-Djoker era was horribly weak meaning that the 2 half-decent players then were able to inflate their slam count beyond their true abilities, their slam count when Djoker beat them, & consequently Djoker's achievement in beating them, are far less impressive, are they not?

TennisPhan1
04-26-2013, 01:27 PM
Lame post. Who ever doubted (post 2010) Nole's mental strength. It is epic, although he choked badly the Rome final. Unfortunately I think his mental strength won't be enough against Rafa this year, his game is way off from the beginning of the year, and Rafa is getting better and better. Nole's no. 1 is in real danger after Wimbledon (which is a lock for the annoying Spaniard).

:cat:

:facepalm:

TennisPhan1
04-26-2013, 01:28 PM
Having to beat Hewitt is hardly a sign of a tough draw :rolleyes:

And neither is a 35 year old Agassi

Hewitt in his prime > Nadal

3-0 in 2004

I've seen this before. You have no respect for Hewitt, Roddick, Safin etc.. They would all destroy your gay lover in their primes. They actually have... hahaha

GSMnadal
04-26-2013, 01:35 PM
Hewitt in his prime > Nadal

3-0 in 2004

I've seen this before. You have no respect for Hewitt, Roddick, Safin etc.. They would all destroy your gay lover in their primes. They actually have... hahaha

Congratulations on the worst post in MTF history

TennisPhan1
04-26-2013, 01:39 PM
Congratulations on the worst post in MTF history

Thanks, but I can't take credit for your accomplishment, which you seem to achieve on a daily basis with your ridiculous posts filled with jealousy and hatred towards 17 >>>>>> 11.

Timot
04-26-2013, 02:04 PM
yeah, djoker had to defend 6 trillion points from 2011, and after winning every tournament known to man :rolleyes:

As far as I like Djoko, that's a pointless excuse. The ranking just tells you how good you were for the last 52 weeks, so it doesn't matter if you have x or y points to "defend". If you still have better results in 52 week period than your rivals, you're no. 1, even if you win less than you did last year. At worst, your lead wouldn't be as big but you'd still be the best.

On a contrary, Novak lost no. 1 after W 2012 also because Fed won much more points at the end of 2011 getting 3000 points from just 3 last tournaments.

anticaria
04-26-2013, 02:16 PM
yeah, nole's mental strength is especially 'incredible' when he faces someone who's playing well below par..

Roy Emerson
04-26-2013, 03:03 PM
His mental strength has been amazing since 2011. But in 2011, Federer had been winning slams for 8 years in a row and Nadal had been winning slams for 6 years in a row. So both had considerable mileage for their respective ages. Not a surprise that the third best player of the past years became the best player after Federer and Nadal declined.

Actually, 2011 was Nadal's 7th year in a row winning slams and Federer was trying to win slams for a 9th year in a row. So that's a lot of mileage.

Djokovic has been winning slams for just 3 years in a row. His streak is still short. By the time he reaches a 6th or 7th year in a row winning slams, if he can win for that long, his decline will be obvious.

Branimir
04-26-2013, 03:17 PM
There was no weak era in tennis ever. 2004-2007 was weak because Federer was kicking ass. If he wasn't you would have Roddick with 2-3 slams, Marat with 2-3 slams, Hewitt with 2-3 slams,maybe Nalbandian would win 1 or 2... All of a sudden it would be a "great era".

Fedalovic
04-26-2013, 04:59 PM
Who cares if Haas beat Djokovic? Wake me up when players like Philippoussis, Schuettler, Puerta and Baghdatis start reaching slam finals. Oh wait, that doesn't happen in this STRONG era.

And supporting the entire top 3 is glory hunting, not being a tennis fan :superlol:
LOL seriously? If you can't come up with a logical rebuttal, then don't bother posting. There's always a way to critize a fan for his allegiance, and when typical MTF posters have no recourse to logical arguments (this is directly related to intelligence), that's what they resort to. You know you're desperate when you run out of arguments and have to base your offenses on someone's name :haha:
Players decline. If Federer keeps playing until he's 40, losing to even lower ranked players, I'm sure some people here will start calling him a "mug", "weak era titan", etc. Once Djokovic and Nadal decline and some future talent supplants them, people will once again think of this as a weak era - and there's no sense to it. Philippoussis, Baghdatis, Hewitt et al used to be great players, but just could not continue playing well as time goes on.
Peace out; I did not intend to offend Ferrer or any of his fans for that matter (I was just joking about Ferrer), I'm just frustrated that people on this board are so supercilious, insulting professional tennis players as though an average MTFer could do better. We should respect these players and their past achievements; if anything even a washed up Hewitt can probably bagel everyone who puruses this board.

TennisPhan1
04-26-2013, 06:10 PM
LOL seriously? If you can't come up with a logical rebuttal, then don't bother posting. There's always a way to critize a fan for his allegiance, and when typical MTF posters have no recourse to logical arguments (this is directly related to intelligence), that's what they resort to. You know you're desperate when you run out of arguments and have to base your offenses on someone's name :haha:
Players decline. If Federer keeps playing until he's 40, losing to even lower ranked players, I'm sure some people here will start calling him a "mug", "weak era titan", etc. Once Djokovic and Nadal decline and some future talent supplants them, people will once again think of this as a weak era - and there's no sense to it. Philippoussis, Baghdatis, Hewitt et al used to be great players, but just could not continue playing well as time goes on.
Peace out; I did not intend to offend Ferrer or any of his fans for that matter (I was just joking about Ferrer), I'm just frustrated that people on this board are so supercilious, insulting professional tennis players as though an average MTFer could do better. We should respect these players and their past achievements; if anything even a washed up Hewitt can probably bagel everyone who puruses this board.

there is no point repeating this over and over to these morons. they know it. it's all about degrading Fed's achievements in his prime so that dull and nole can shine brighter than him, but they never ever will :)

Honestly
04-26-2013, 06:18 PM
There is no doubt Djokovic has amazing mental strength and this thread is totally justified. That is probably what I like most about Djoker 2.0 and why dull's little mind games just does not work with him. When dull grunts, he grunts harder. When dull wastes time, he wastes more time. When dull celebrates, he celebrates harder :hearts:

Kowchi
04-26-2013, 06:36 PM
There was no weak era in tennis ever. 2004-2007 was weak because Federer was kicking ass. If he wasn't you would have Roddick with 2-3 slams, Marat with 2-3 slams, Hewitt with 2-3 slams,maybe Nalbandian would win 1 or 2... All of a sudden it would be a "great era".

Thank you. I don't get why people don't understand this :confused::confused:

If people could just ADMIT and ACCEPT, the world would be much better.

Dead Net Cord
05-17-2013, 03:36 PM
Still it could be better.

ZaZoo)
05-17-2013, 03:36 PM
Still it could be better.

Still it's incredible.

Kyle_Johansen
05-17-2013, 03:37 PM
This was a one-off kinda thing, like Nadal/Verdasco at Madrid.

Mountaindewslave
05-17-2013, 03:39 PM
This was a one-off kinda thing, like Nadal/Verdasco at Madrid.

although someone could argue that he was mentally weak in last weeks 2nd Rnd loss too, losing to a (cramping!?) Dimitrov

but for sure these sort of things are BOUND to happen. I think a combination of Djokovic being a bit weak mentally today and Berdych being strong

BlueLighthouse
05-17-2013, 03:41 PM
:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

:bigclap: :bigclap: :bigclap:

zdravkelja
05-17-2013, 03:47 PM
Djoko is too much affected by outside factors, like crowd for example. Other than that, he is prety strong mentaly.

Murray=God
05-17-2013, 03:56 PM
This was a one-off kinda thing, like Nadal/Verdasco at Madrid.

I still regard Djokovic as a mental giant but his collapse in the third set to Del Potro has now been repeated again only a short time later. Very surprising.

Kite Flyer
05-17-2013, 04:35 PM
Yeah such incredible mental strenght this djoke has
shitting his pants and tanking to avoid GOAT :lol:
joketards should stop writing posts about joke's overrated clay court game
Joke is a hardcourt specialist like Noseman,two boring players

SheepleBuster
05-17-2013, 04:44 PM
Djokovic tanks too much. Get your lazy ass to the gym Nole. Losing to Murray was a low. But Berdych? I don't know. It's bad

Sophocles
05-17-2013, 04:46 PM
Nobody has ever been a mental giant in every match - not Djoker, not Nadal, not Sampras, not Borg, not Connors, not Laver, not Gonzales, not Tilden.

Kite Flyer
05-17-2013, 04:47 PM
Djokovic tanks too much. Get your lazy ass to the gym Nole. Losing to Murray was a low. But Berdych? I don't know. It's badEveryone knows he wants to avoid GOAT in peak form
He vultured in monte carlo looking at how a clay mug like dimitrov challenged GOAT and almost beat him in 3 sets

NID
05-17-2013, 04:48 PM
He is past his peak. Just like with Fed, these things are bound to happen more often in the future...

SheepleBuster
05-17-2013, 04:53 PM
Everyone knows he wants to avoid GOAT in peak form
He vultured in monte carlo looking at how a clay mug like dimitrov challenged GOAT and almost beat him in 3 sets

Which Goat are you talking about? You mean the animal with horns? Or are you mistaking piggy for goat again. lol

Noleta
05-17-2013, 04:55 PM
The title should be changed to "was".