WWW Roland Garros QF: Ferrer - Murray? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

WWW Roland Garros QF: Ferrer - Murray?

romismak
06-04-2012, 07:10 PM
I hope Ferru will send this ,,injured,, Murray home

Chris Kuerten
06-04-2012, 07:10 PM
I can't see any scenario in which Judy will win a set here :shrug:

Certinfy
06-04-2012, 07:15 PM
Murray in 4.

Mark Lenders
06-04-2012, 07:15 PM
Murray in 3.

Murray to reach the semis of a Slam again by having a draw full of players with no weapons to hurt him at all, it's been like that Slam after Slam.

But the true winner of this grindathon will be Nadal, who'd straight set Murray anyway but now even more so.

Sapeod
06-04-2012, 07:16 PM
Injured :haha: :haha:

Ferrer won't stand much chance if Andy plays like he did in the last two sets against Gasquet.

MuzzahLovah
06-04-2012, 07:17 PM
Muzzah in an epic hopefully. It will be an uphill battle.

Orka_n
06-04-2012, 07:17 PM
Ferrer in 4 and Sapeod will whine about Andy "giving" David the victory by playing poorly

muxiu
06-04-2012, 07:18 PM
ferrer in 3

rocketassist
06-04-2012, 07:19 PM
Pics in 5 in just under five hours.

Sapeod
06-04-2012, 07:21 PM
Ferrer in 4 and Sapeod will whine about Andy "giving" David the victory by playing poorly
You'll be whining about something, that much is definite.

TigerTim
06-04-2012, 07:22 PM
Pics in 5 in just under five hours.

This. It's Gunna be long.

Nr 1 Fan
06-04-2012, 07:22 PM
Murray in 3.

Murray to reach the semis of a Slam again by having a draw full of players with no weapons to hurt him at all, it's been like that Slam after Slam.

But the true winner of this grindathon will be Nadal, who'd straight set Murray anyway but now even more so.

You really need to stop whining about Murrays draw.

Commander Data
06-04-2012, 07:22 PM
Hopefully Murray in 3 so that we have at least a somehow interesting SF.

MIMIC
06-04-2012, 07:22 PM
Ferrer in 3.

Wing Man Frank
06-04-2012, 07:23 PM
Ferrer will beat him in straight sets and every single tennis fan around the world will enjoy seeing Murray and his fake injury walking off either the PC or SL court.

Scottish scum.

Nr 1 Fan
06-04-2012, 07:23 PM
Murray in 5 set epic I think

Nr 1 Fan
06-04-2012, 07:23 PM
Ferrer will beat him in straight sets and every single tennis fan around the world will enjoy seeing Murray and his fake injury walking off either the PC or SL court.

Scottish scum.

It'll be on PC.

Certinfy
06-04-2012, 07:25 PM
It'll be on PC.
Doubt it.

Nadal was on SL today and in R2, doubt they'll put him on it for the 3rd time in 5 matches.

iriraz
06-04-2012, 07:25 PM
If Murray starts the match like today against Gasquet,he would probably not only be 1 but 2 sets down.And then coming back from two down to beat Ferrer,is a huge ask for Murray not only mentally but also physically.
Murray is a slow starter and it will be tougher to turn it around against a guy who isn`t missing a lot.

NID
06-04-2012, 07:25 PM
muzza in 4, after a slow start. hopefully.

rocketassist
06-04-2012, 07:26 PM
This. It's Gunna be long.

Their four set AO encounter was 3hr30 and very punishing. This one I expect to be even longer and more so.

kinski76
06-04-2012, 07:28 PM
Murray has never beaten Ferrer on clay, but that statistic might change if Andy plays like he did in the last two sets vs Gasquet. However, judging from what I've seen from both, I'm giving David the (slight) advantage. Could be a long one, though.

TigerTim
06-04-2012, 07:28 PM
Their four set AO encounter was 3hr30 and very punishing. This one I expect to be even longer and more so.

Indeed, but if Murray wants to win RG he has to steamroller Ferrer in straights. He HAS to take major risks. It's pointless to grind out a 5 setter and then get destroyed by Nadal.

Nr 1 Fan
06-04-2012, 07:29 PM
Doubt it.

Nadal was on SL today and in R2, doubt they'll put him on it for the 3rd time in 5 matches.

There are only 4 singles matches wednesday, men and women combined, why not put them all on PC?

Mark Lenders
06-04-2012, 07:29 PM
You really need to stop whining about Murrays draw.

It's true. When was the last time he was drawn against one of the 5-8 ranked big hitters in the quarters - you know, guys who actually have the weapons to hit through him. Berdych seems to have his measure in tour events, so of course they never get drawn together in Slam events.

Dolgopolov, Chela, Lopez, Isner, Nishikori (after playing tons of five setters) and now Ferrer have been his last 6 QF opponents, no wonder he's in a semifinal streak.

I don't blame him, but it's kind of annoying how he keeps avoiding the players who actually have the weapons to beat him at quarterfinal stage, but I guess those are the perks of being a member of the so-called 'Big 4'.

Nr 1 Fan
06-04-2012, 07:30 PM
Indeed, but if Murray wants to win RG he has to steamroller Ferrer in straights. He HAS to take major risks. It's pointless to grind out a 5 setter and then get destroyed by Nadal.

I think he has no chance to win against Nadal regardless, he played very well against mediocre Nadal last year and he still coulmdn't take a set.

Looner
06-04-2012, 07:30 PM
Indeed, but if Murray wants to win RG he has to steamroller Ferrer in straights. He HAS to take major risks. It's pointless to grind out a 5 setter and then get destroyed by Nadal.

I doubt Murray thinks beyond gifting another final appearance to Nadal. I really don't think he has the mindset to believe and compete with RN at slams, let alone at RG. I have been waiting for him to prove me wrong and he was close in the 1st set last year at Wimbledon and then just faltered.

Sapeod
06-04-2012, 07:31 PM
It's true. When was the last time he was drawn against one of the 5-8 ranked big hitters in the quarters - you know, guys who actually have the weapons to hit through him. Berdych seems to have his measure in tour events, so of course they never get drawn together in Slam events.

Dolgopolov, Chela, Lopez, Isner, Nishikori (after playing tons of five setters) and now Ferrer have been his last 6 QF opponents, no wonder he's in a semifinal streak.

I don't blame him, but it's kind of annoying how he keeps avoiding the players who actually have the weapons to beat him at quarterfinal stage, but I guess those are the perks of being a member of the so-called 'Big 4'.
The draws of the other members of the top 4 haven't been any better. In fact, Murray has had the better player in the 4th round. Gasquet >>>> Monaco/Seppi/Goffin. So stop whining.

Sillyrabbit
06-04-2012, 07:31 PM
Murray's clearly injured, that back is probably almost to breaking point. Fingets crossed he can actually walk straight on Wednesday and isn't hunching :(

Nr 1 Fan
06-04-2012, 07:32 PM
It's true. When was the last time he was drawn against one of the 5-8 ranked big hitters in the quarters - you know, guys who actually have the weapons to hit through him. Berdych seems to have his measure in tour events, so of course they never get drawn together in Slam events.

Dolgopolov, Chela, Lopez, Isner, Nishikori (after playing tons of five setters) and now Ferrer have been his last 6 QF opponents, no wonder he's in a semifinal streak.

I don't blame him, but it's kind of annoying how he keeps avoiding the players who actually have the weapons to beat him at quarterfinal stage, but I guess those are the perks of being a member of the so-called 'Big 4'.

It is a bit easy to say everybody who loses against Murray 'doesn't have the weapons to beat him'. He actually had the toughest draw of top 4 and Ferrer is the hardest GQ-opponent you can get as top 4 here at RG.

green25814
06-04-2012, 07:32 PM
Whoever wins I hope to god its straight sets.

Nr 1 Fan
06-04-2012, 07:34 PM
I doubt Murray thinks beyond gifting another final appearance to Nadal. I really don't think he has the mindset to believe and compete with RN at slams, let alone at RG. I have been waiting for him to prove me wrong and he was close in the 1st set last year at Wimbledon and then just faltered.

Exactly. He has a huge mental block against Nadal especially at slams. At Wimbledon he just went away after that first set, although Nadal played out of his mind the last two sets there.

TigerTim
06-04-2012, 07:34 PM
I doubt Murray thinks beyond gifting another final appearance to Nadal. I really don't think he has the mindset to believe and compete with RN at slams, let alone at RG. I have been waiting for him to prove me wrong and he was close in the 1st set last year at Wimbledon and then just faltered.

Unfortunatly this is the truth and why he is slamless. If I was Murray I would think, who gives a shit if I lose QF instead of SF as long as I know I gave it a go to blast through quickly to give myself and chance to be rested for Nadal. SF are irelivant to him, or should be, focus on the titles must be paramount.

rocketassist
06-04-2012, 07:35 PM
Whoever wins I hope to god its straight sets.

Yarp.

Both of these guys have been competitive against Nadal on clay before. Murray took sets in Monte Carlo, and had 3/18 break points against him here last year, and Pics has had set points and choked them this year and in the past.

They'd be underdog, but they can both compete with him and make him fight hard for it. But they have to be at full pelt to do it.

Certinfy
06-04-2012, 07:36 PM
There are only 4 singles matches wednesday, men and women combined, why not put them all on PC?
RG always plays one men's and one's women on both courts.

out_grinder
06-04-2012, 07:36 PM
Murray in 3.

Murray to reach the semis of a Slam again by having a draw full of players with no weapons to hurt him at all, it's been like that Slam after Slam.

But the true winner of this grindathon will be Nadal, who'd straight set Murray anyway but now even more so.

Wot are you on, Murray has the hardest draw

Allez
06-04-2012, 07:38 PM
Ferrer has got to be the favourite here.

Certinfy
06-04-2012, 07:38 PM
Wot are you on, Murray has the hardest draw
I'm definitely with you on this, definitely a lot harder than Nadal's, Federer's, Djokovic's and Ferrer's no doubt.

Jozie
06-04-2012, 07:38 PM
Murray's clearly injured, that back is probably almost to breaking point. Fingets crossed he can actually walk straight on Wednesday and isn't hunching :(
Oh please.... if he was seriously injured he would pull out of the tournament, and save himself.

Mark Lenders
06-04-2012, 07:38 PM
It is a bit easy to say everybody who loses against Murray 'doesn't have the weapons to beat him'. He actually had the toughest draw of top 4 and Ferrer is the hardest GQ-opponent you can get as top 4 here at RG.

Ah from the current 5-8 range, there are two guys who are threats to take down top guys/have the weapons to do so: Tsonga on every surface bar clay and Berdych on clay (soon Del Potro will be added when he becomes top 8). It might be a coincidence, but Murray has been avoiding this kind of players at Slams for like two years now.

I'm not just talking about this tournament. And even here he will face a player where the match is fully on his hands. He is like a more advanced version of Ferrer, younger, better groundstrokes, much better touch, equal court coverage with more economic movement.

born_on_clay
06-04-2012, 07:39 PM
Ferrer in 4
Send this mug home David :cool:

Mark Lenders
06-04-2012, 07:41 PM
Wot are you on, Murray has the hardest draw

Not harder than Ferrer's. Lacko, Paire, Youznhy and Gruntollers is the toughest draw in Grand Slam history.

And my observation wasn't about this tournament in particular, but how long Murray has been avoiding dangerous big hitters in his Slam draws. Last time he had to face this kind of player (you know, guys with weapons to penetrate his defense) before semis was Tsonga in Wimbledon 2010 (he won) and Cilic in USO 2009 (he lost).

JurajCrane
06-04-2012, 07:42 PM
Murray will beat Ferrer in 5 and then withdraw from SF to make G.O.A.E.D. (Greatest of all easiest draws) for Nadal who will win final by retirement to have his record confirmed.

Nr 1 Fan
06-04-2012, 07:43 PM
Ah from the current 5-8 range, there are two guys who are threats to take down top guys/have the weapons to do so: Tsonga on every surface bar clay and Berdych on clay (soon Del Potro will be added when he becomes top 8). It might be a coincidence, but Murray has been avoiding this kind of players at Slams for like two years now.

I'm not just talking about this tournament. And even here he will face a player where the match is fully on his hands. He is like a more advanced version of Ferrer, younger, better groundstrokes, much better touch, equal court coverage with more economic movement.

Yes but Murray just has more weapons than anyone, except for top three.
Currently it's like this in mens tennis: top 3...(small gap, mostly mental issues)...Murray....(bigger gap) .... top 10-15.....(huge gap).... the rest

JurajCrane
06-04-2012, 07:43 PM
Not harder than Ferrer's. Lacko, Paire, Youznhy and Gruntollers is the toughest draw in Grand Slam history.

And my observation wasn't about this tournament in particular, but how long Murray has been avoiding dangerous big hitters in his Slam draws. Last time he had to face this kind of player (you know, guys with weapons to penetrate his defense) before semis was Tsonga in Wimbledon 2010 (he won) and Cilic in USO 2009 (he lost).

You have forgot Wawrinka in USO 2010.

out_grinder
06-04-2012, 07:43 PM
Ah from the current 5-8 range, there are two guys who are threats to take down top guys/have the weapons to do so: Tsonga on every surface bar clay and Berdych on clay (soon Del Potro will be added when he becomes top 8). It might be a coincidence, but Murray has been avoiding this kind of players at Slams for like two years now.

I'm not just talking about this tournament. And even here he will face a player where the match is fully on his hands. He is like a more advanced version of Ferrer, younger, better groundstrokes, much better touch, equal court coverage with more economic movement.

Ahhh, there is no point arguing with you is there.

Ask any of the players left in RG who they'd least like to play in the QF, and your answer will be universally: 'Ferrer'. The guy is an absolute beast on clay, but you think that no other type of player besides the stereotypical heavy, tall, mobility-challenged brainless ballbasher plays anything to be considered 'dangerous tennis'.

Ferrer is extremely dangerous on clay.

Nr 1 Fan
06-04-2012, 07:44 PM
Who has the toughest draw of top 4 is mostly match-up talk really.

Sunset of Age
06-04-2012, 07:44 PM
Hmmm. Ferrer - hopefully... and even more hopefully, he isn't going to fall into the same notorious Nieminen-Gasquet Trap, TM Murray. :o

Oh please.... if he was seriously injured he would pull out of the tournament, and save himself.

I think you forgot to turn on your Sarcasm Detector. ;)

Nr 1 Fan
06-04-2012, 07:46 PM
RG always plays one men's and one's women on both courts.

Also in Quarters? Okay, I didn't remember that from last year, but now you say it , it sounds logical. Smart move commercially as well.

GSMnadal
06-04-2012, 07:46 PM
I really don't know which to trust more, Ferrer's clearly superior clay court game, or his ability to lose to top ranked guys in slams, and especially Roland Garros.

Going with the latter :o

Muzza in 4

Roger the Dodger
06-04-2012, 07:47 PM
Hopefully Murray spares us another round of Rafa-Ferru spankfest!

Moozza
06-04-2012, 07:48 PM
Not harder than Ferrer's. Lacko, Paire, Youznhy and Gruntollers is the toughest draw in Grand Slam history.

And my observation wasn't about this tournament in particular, but how long Murray has been avoiding dangerous big hitters in his Slam draws. Last time he had to face this kind of player (you know, guys with weapons to penetrate his defense) before semis was Tsonga in Wimbledon 2010 (he won) and Cilic in USO 2009 (he lost).

Tsonga was in his quater at the AO this year. However, he wasn't good enough to get there which is not Murray's problem

Sapeod
06-04-2012, 07:48 PM
Who has the toughest draw of top 4 is mostly match-up talk really.
Andy had the best player in the fourth round. Gasquet >>> Seppi/Monaco >>>> Goffin.

In the quarter-finals Roger and Andy have the toughest opponents. Del Potro/Ferrer >> Almagro >> Tsonga.

Certinfy
06-04-2012, 07:48 PM
Also in Quarters? Okay, I didn't remember that from last year, but now you say it , it sounds logical. Smart move commercially as well.
Yes. Roland Garros and Wimbledon are the only 2 slams to play Quarter-Finals on 2 main courts. It's bad I think as it means 2 interesting matches can be going on at the same time.

Nr 1 Fan
06-04-2012, 07:49 PM
Tsonga was in his quater at the AO this year. However, he wasn't good enough to get there which is not Murray's problem

Yes, one can only beat the players put in front of him.

Mark Lenders
06-04-2012, 07:49 PM
Yes but Murray just has more weapons than anyone, except for top three.
Currently it's like this in mens tennis: top 3...(small gap, mostly mental issues)...Murray....(bigger gap) .... top 10-15.....(huge gap).... the rest

I will be waiting to see that proved at Wimbledon and the US Open, with him taking on actually dangerous players like Tsonga, Berdych or Del Potro in the quarters, or even someone like Raonic in earlier rounds (outside of clay, he can be quite dangerous).

I do congratulate him for his consistency in reaching 5 (probably soon to be 6) consecutive Slam finals, but that's it. Who was the best player/were the best players he beat in those six runs?

I'm not impressed to see him beat guys like Ferrer, Lopez and co. in quarters, I know Murray is far better than them.

rutinos harcos
06-04-2012, 07:50 PM
This could go in 5.Who ever wins will have little chance against Nadal.

rocketassist
06-04-2012, 07:52 PM
I will be waiting to see that proved at Wimbledon and the US Open, with him taking on actually dangerous players like Tsonga, Berdych or Del Potro in the quarters, or even someone like Raonic in earlier rounds (outside of clay, he can be quite dangerous).

I do congratulate him for his consistency in reaching 5 (probably soon to be 6) consecutive Slam finals, but that's it. Who was the best player/were the best players he beat in those six runs?

I'm not impressed to see him beat guys like Ferrer, Lopez and co. in quarters, I know Murray is far better than them.

That's just it though- the top 10 isn't as strong as it used to be. There are not enough legit threats to take out the top guys.

Nr 1 Fan
06-04-2012, 07:53 PM
I will be waiting to see that proved at Wimbledon and the US Open, with him taking on actually dangerous players like Tsonga, Berdych or Del Potro in the quarters, or even someone like Raonic in earlier rounds (outside of clay, he can be quite dangerous).

I do congratulate him for his consistency in reaching 5 (probably soon to be 6) consecutive Slam finals, but that's it. Who was the best player/were the best players he beat in those six runs?

I'm not impressed to see him beat guys like Ferrer, Lopez and co. in quarters, I know Murray is far better than them.

So you are actually saying he needs to beat top three in order to get your congrulations? Murray has a big winning record against all of those other players you named (except for Berdych) :shrug:

Fireballer
06-04-2012, 07:54 PM
Murray for the sake of tennis

Nr 1 Fan
06-04-2012, 07:54 PM
Andy had the best player in the fourth round. Gasquet >>> Seppi/Monaco >>>> Goffin.

In the quarter-finals Roger and Andy have the toughest opponents. Del Potro/Ferrer >> Almagro >> Tsonga.

I totally I agree Murray has had hardest draw here from top 4 as I stated earlier.

Mark Lenders
06-04-2012, 07:58 PM
So you are actually saying he needs to beat top three in order to get your congrulations? Murray has a big winning record against all of those other players you named (except for Berdych) :shrug:

No, I'm saying he needs to beat the dangerous players in the 5-8/10 range in the quarters. Big hitters can hurt him in Slam tournaments, but he hasn't had to face them for quite a long time.

And I do congratulate him, but just for his consistency. 5/6 Slam semis in a row is great regardless of what draws you get. But it has only shown his ability to beat far inferior opponents at Slam level consistently imo.

Chris Kuerten
06-04-2012, 07:58 PM
Monaco (obviously not against Nadal) > Seppi > Gasquet > Goffin

Gasquet is a clown of the highest order.

ballbasher101
06-04-2012, 07:59 PM
I expect the Scot to win against Ferrer on clay for the first time. It will be tough but he will do it.

Mark Lenders
06-04-2012, 08:01 PM
That's just it though- the top 10 isn't as strong as it used to be. There are not enough legit threats to take out the top guys.

True, but only the top 3 have been facing those threats in recent Slams. I'd classify Soderling (when he was healthy), Tsonga (bar on clay), Berdych and Del Potro as the biggest threats to take out one of the current top 4 at a Slam. Federer has faced them 4 times in the last 6 Slams, Djokovic 4, Nadal 3 and Murray 0!

Read this in whatever way you want, but it's at least quite a coincidence for sure.

shadows
06-04-2012, 08:02 PM
Ferrer should win, but I lost quite a bit of faith in his mental game lately.

Johnny Groove
06-04-2012, 08:03 PM
Ferrer, clearly the better clay courter.

Sapeod
06-04-2012, 08:04 PM
Monaco (obviously not against Nadal) > Seppi > Gasquet > Goffin

Gasquet is a clown of the highest order.
There are two things wrong with your list. Care to guess what they are?

Nr 1 Fan
06-04-2012, 08:06 PM
No, I'm saying he needs to beat the dangerous players in the 5-8/10 range in the quarters. Big hitters can hurt him in Slam tournaments, but he hasn't had to face them for quite a long time.

And I do congratulate him, but just for his consistency. 5/6 Slam semis in a row is great regardless of what draws you get. But it has only shown his ability to beat far inferior opponents at Slam level consistently imo.

He does that on a regular basis: 5-1 vs Tsonga , 5-1 vs Delpo, 3-2 vs Soderling, 5-3 vs Tipsy, 2-1 vs Almagro. Those are the guys you must be talking about, no? :confused:
Only negative is against Berdych (2-4)

Fireballer
06-04-2012, 08:06 PM
There are two things wrong with your list. Care to guess what they are?

Seppi and Monaco are both better than Gasquet

Roger the Dodger
06-04-2012, 08:07 PM
Ferrer, clearly the better clay courter.

Would be awesome though if statistics were proven wrong.

Nr 1 Fan
06-04-2012, 08:07 PM
There are two things wrong with your list. Care to guess what they are?

Goffin > the 3 other together ? :devil:

rocketassist
06-04-2012, 08:07 PM
True, but only the top 3 have been facing those threats in recent Slams. I'd classify Soderling (when he was healthy), Tsonga (bar on clay), Berdych and Del Potro as the biggest threats to take out one of the top 4 at a Slam. Federer has faced them 4 times in the last 6 Slams, Djokovic 3, Nadal 3 and Murray 0!

Read this in whatever way you want, but it's at least quite a coincidence for sure.

Interesting stat.

If Soderling had stayed healthy and was still in the mix it would certainly have decreased the predictability of the last four.

Chris Kuerten
06-04-2012, 08:08 PM
There are two things wrong with your list. Care to guess what they are?My bad, forgot to include this: Andy Murray is a future world number one and multiple grand slam winner.


:haha:

Mark Lenders
06-04-2012, 08:13 PM
Interesting stat.

If Soderling had stayed healthy and was still in the mix it would certainly have decreased the predictability of the last four.

Yes, and the same for Del Potro as well, who was not allowed to build on his maiden Slam (got injured right afterwards) and is only now getting back to his best (slowly).

But the main problem is that Murray is the most vulnerable of the top 4 to big hitters and he keeps avoiding them.

He does that on a regular basis: 5-1 vs Tsonga , 5-1 vs Delpo, 3-2 vs Soderling, 5-3 vs Tipsy, 2-1 vs Almagro. Those are the guys you must be talking about, no? :confused:
Only negative is against Berdych (2-4)

I don't consider Tipsy and Almagro big threats. And yes, I know he can beat those guys at tour events, I'm obviously referring to the fact that he has never faced any of those players in his run of 5/6 consecutive Slams. I'm sure you'll agree that Tsonga/Delpo (even comeback Juan)/Berdych/Soderling are far more dangerous than Chela, Lopez, Ferrer and co.

But somehow only the top 3 is drawn against these players time and time again.

Nr 1 Fan
06-04-2012, 08:15 PM
Yes, and the same for Del Potro as well, who was not allowed to build on his maiden Slam (got injured right afterwards) and is only now getting back to his best (slowly).

But the main problem is that Murray is the most vulnerable of the top 4 to big hitters and he keeps avoiding them.



I don't consider Tipsy and Almagro big threats. And yes, I know he can beat those guys at tour events, I'm obviously referring to the fact that he has never faced any of those players in his run of 5/6 consecutive Slams. I'm sure you'll agree that Tsonga/Delpo (even comeback Juan)/Berdych/Soderling are far more dangerous than Chela, Lopez, Ferrer and co.

But somehow only the top 3 is drawn against these players time and time again.

Okay, I see your point, but I would still rate Murray favorite against all of these guys. Though as a Delpo fan I would have rather seen Delpotro face Murray than of the other 3 :p

chenx15
06-04-2012, 08:16 PM
I usually don't vote on this but Ferrer on 3 sets. he is just too mentally strong and too consistent for murray. There is also a possibility of expecting a grind fest.

Mark Lenders
06-04-2012, 08:20 PM
Okay, I see your point, but I would still rate Murray favorite against all of these guys. Though as a Delpo fan I would have rather seen Delpotro face Murray than of the other 3 :p

Fair enough. I'd just like to see these guys getting drawn vs Murray instead of the top 3 for once.

This does seem like a 'ploy' to secure Murray #4 position (to milk the 'Big 4' cash cow for all it's worth). As long as the dangerous 5-10 guys are getting drawn vs the top 3, they can't overtake Murray even if they play better than Murray. They have to play at #1-3 level to become #4 because they will keep facing 1-3 one round earlier than Murray. Playing at #4 level isn't enough to become #4, basically. As long as these draws remain, only chance of Murray losing his #4 is either someone playing at top 3 level or Murray mugging it up big time.

Not saying Murray would or would not be overtaken, that's beside the point, just making a systematic analysis.

The_Djoker
06-04-2012, 08:39 PM
For the sake of taking out Nadull, Murray needs to win. Ferrer is the slight favourite but you can never Trust David in these sort of slam matches. He always bottles it. Still remember the horrible US open against Roddick.

GSMnadal
06-04-2012, 08:40 PM
For the sake of taking out Nadull, Murray needs to win. Ferrer is the slight favourite but you can never Trust David in these sort of slam matches. He always bottles it. Still remember the horrible US open against Roddick.

AO 11: Ferrer def. Nadal
FO 11: Nadal def. Murray
W 11: Nadal def. Murray
USO 11: Nadal def. Murray

Que?

samanosuke
06-04-2012, 08:41 PM
hope murray wins this one. at least he immediately bends over nadal, doesn't give you a hope and than fucks you like ferrer does

Allez
06-04-2012, 08:43 PM
Ferrer will exploit Murray's injury to win in 4 sets.

dav abu
06-04-2012, 08:45 PM
Ferrer will exploit Murray's injury to win in 4 sets.

Murray is not injured.

Filo V.
06-04-2012, 08:46 PM
Hopefully the professional, genuine clay courter wins this match. And he should do so. Ferrer in straights.

The_Djoker
06-04-2012, 08:47 PM
AO 11: Ferrer def. Nadal
FO 11: Nadal def. Murray
W 11: Nadal def. Murray
USO 11: Nadal def. Murray

Que?

Murray probably won't beat Nadull but he has an outside chance is he plays his best Tennis, Ferrer has no chance.

MaxPower
06-04-2012, 08:48 PM
hope murray wins this one. at least he immediately bends over nadal, doesn't give you a hope and than fucks you like ferrer does

lol. have to agree with this

Filo V.
06-04-2012, 08:48 PM
Murray has zero percent chances of beating Nadal.

Looner
06-04-2012, 08:49 PM
I haven't seen anything from Ferrer and almost zero from Murray. I hope... I really don't know what to hope for... I guess I'll go for the safe option and hope Ferrer prevails as he deserves a SF appearance at RG and Murray losing some points for #3 won't be bad.

Murray has zero percent chances of beating Nadal.

This post gives me hope.

rocketassist
06-04-2012, 08:50 PM
Murray has zero percent chances of beating Nadal.

True but he can take a set at least and extend him into a dogfight. He's shown in the past in Monte Carlo and last year when he choked BPs he can be pretty competitive against him on the dirt, even without coming close to winning.

TigerTim
06-04-2012, 08:51 PM
Ferrer beat Nadal at 07 USO also did he not?

LastRocket
06-04-2012, 08:52 PM
Murray has zero percent chances of beating Nadal.

This is what would happen to Murray if he plays Nadal

http://i47.tinypic.com/9ie7sy.jpg

TigerTim
06-04-2012, 08:53 PM
This is what would happen to Murray if he plays Nadal

http://i47.tinypic.com/9ie7sy.jpg

he'd still have more physicality than Gasquet :haha:

tektonac
06-04-2012, 08:54 PM
you've got to go with ferrer, although wouldn't be surprised if andy won. this will be a 4 - 5 set battle.

Allez
06-04-2012, 08:54 PM
Murray is not injured.

Back spasms.

The_Djoker
06-04-2012, 08:55 PM
And I guess it's irrelevant as Djoko will Crush Nadull.

misty1
06-04-2012, 08:58 PM
murray has never beaten ferrer on clay andf only taken 1 set off him in the 3 matches they played on the surface. I doubt ferrer will win in straights but i see no reason why murray would get his first clay win over ferrer here

ferrer in 4

misty1
06-04-2012, 08:59 PM
For the sake of taking out Nadull, Murray needs to win. Ferrer is the slight favourite but you can never Trust David in these sort of slam matches. He always bottles it. Still remember the horrible US open against Roddick.

if murray cant beat healthy nadal on hard court or grass in a grand slam situation what in the hell makes you think he'll take nadal out at the french

Certinfy
06-04-2012, 09:00 PM
if murray cant beat healthy nadal on hard court or grass in a grand slam situation what in the hell makes you think he'll take nadal out at the french
Regardless though he stands a much bigger chance than Ferrer!

out_grinder
06-04-2012, 09:02 PM
Fair enough. I'd just like to see these guys getting drawn vs Murray instead of the top 3 for once.

This does seem like a 'ploy' to secure Murray #4 position (to milk the 'Big 4' cash cow for all it's worth). As long as the dangerous 5-10 guys are getting drawn vs the top 3, they can't overtake Murray even if they play better than Murray. They have to play at #1-3 level to become #4 because they will keep facing 1-3 one round earlier than Murray. Playing at #4 level isn't enough to become #4, basically. As long as these draws remain, only chance of Murray losing his #4 is either someone playing at top 3 level or Murray mugging it up big time.

Not saying Murray would or would not be overtaken, that's beside the point, just making a systematic analysis.

YES!!

That's it, the tennis tournie organisers are obviously involved in some sort of ploy to keep Murray in the top 4.

FFS, at least with the whole 'are the draws rigged?' deal we can say objectively that 15 of the last 18 slams have been Fed/Djoko semi's and even then it is a stretch to call out any draw rigging. But here Murray has the hardest route to the SF's of any top 4 member, yet since for some unfathomable reason, you mistakenly believe that at RG, facing a brainless ballbasher must be harder than facing one of the most tenacious clay-court specialists on a clay court, you say that Murray must have had rigged draws.

This is not even to say that you only need to look back as far as the last slam to see that Murray was headed for a clash with big-hitting Tsonga, only Tsonga himself did not live up to his end of the bargain. That's just the nature of ballbashers - they are inconsistant and prone to upset. I'm sure you believe that the tournie organisers must be making them lose before they get to Murray as well.

You only need to go further back in history, oh - I dunno one more slam further back, to see that Murray played Isner and Hasse in USO 2011. Both some of the biggest hitters in the game, yet they were not smart or solid enough to beat him.

Everything you say romanticises brainless ballbashing and belittles other styles of play - and on this issue with Murray never facing a big hitter in a slam you're really talking out of your ass.

rocketassist
06-04-2012, 09:04 PM
if murray cant beat healthy nadal on hard court or grass in a grand slam situation what in the hell makes you think he'll take nadal out at the french

he defeated healthy Nadal in New York four years ago and took two sets off healthy Nadal in Melbourne, albeit not the third set.

Armstrong court in 08 is far far quicker than Chatrier 2012 of course....

misty1
06-04-2012, 09:04 PM
Regardless though he stands a much bigger chance than Ferrer!

well sure..he probably has a better chance to at least take a set. Its a pitty because if ferrer didnt have such a massive mental block against nadal he'd have a genuine shot at beating him in the potential semi final

duarte_a
06-04-2012, 09:04 PM
This is what would happen to Murray if he plays Nadal

http://i47.tinypic.com/9ie7sy.jpg

:haha:

But seriously I don't want andy meet nadull and bend over as usual.

Pirata.
06-04-2012, 09:07 PM
Hopefully the professional, genuine clay courter wins this match. And he should do so. Ferrer in straights.

:yeah:

Murray probably won't beat Nadull but he has an outside chance is he plays his best Tennis, Ferrer has no chance.

:spit:

lol at people thinking Murray will have any better shot at taking a set from Rafa, let alone beating him :superlol:

LaFuria
06-04-2012, 09:10 PM
Murray would be destroyed by Nadull on clay. Any other surface I'd agree, but I'd trust Ferrer to take out Rafa more right now.

Ferrer had a joke draw but I think he takes this.

latso
06-04-2012, 09:14 PM
Voted Ferru in 3, but my main expectation is not there to be used - ferru in 1.5 sets.

I can't see any possible briliant tactical aproach that would work against Ferru except the constant attack, in which Murray isn't good enough, especially on clay and especially against a super fast perpetuum mobile as Ferrer is.

So after wasting a lot of energy, trying to be agressive and probably losing set 1, at one point i believe he will save his back from further complication, considering he's done more than his personal expectations (especially the ones he had around set 1 against Nieminen) and considering the long and important double Wimby summer ahead.

So i expect a short intro to the mega explosive semi Ferrer - Nadal

LastRocket
06-04-2012, 09:28 PM
Ferrer in 3

http://i50.tinypic.com/fb93qq.jpg

henke007
06-04-2012, 09:30 PM
Ferrer to take out the trash and make more ground in the Race.

MuzzahLovah
06-04-2012, 09:34 PM
Murray would be destroyed by Nadull on clay. Any other surface I'd agree, but I'd trust Ferrer to take out Rafa more right now.

Ferrer had a joke draw but I think he takes this.

When has ferrer beaten Nadal on clay?

TigerTim
06-04-2012, 09:38 PM
"It's true that in the past four matches, I felt really comfortable. I felt really at ease," a relaxed David Ferrer, who has not dropped a set en route to the quarter-finals.

his mentality is why at the latter stages he sucks, this comment shows it all.

misty1
06-04-2012, 09:44 PM
When has ferrer beaten Nadal on clay?

their very first meeting in 2004 was on clay and ferrer won

now that was a very long time ago obviously but the poiint is he's done it. Murray on the other hand never has

Filo V.
06-04-2012, 09:55 PM
And I guess it's irrelevant as Djoko will Crush Nadull.

Seguir siendo desesperada :lol:

Jamoz
06-04-2012, 09:58 PM
Seguir siendo desesperada :lol:

Mukavaa puhua kielillä :D

Filo V.
06-04-2012, 10:01 PM
Mukavaa puhua kielillä :D

I know zero Finnish :lol:

Jamoz
06-04-2012, 10:03 PM
I know zero Finnish :lol:

claro ;)

Orange Wombat
06-04-2012, 10:07 PM
This must be the most difficult match to predict of the tournament.

My mind says Ferrer in 4 yet my heart, (I mean brain's limbic system) says Murray in 5.

Let the best man win :bounce::bounce:

Sunset of Age
06-04-2012, 10:09 PM
Ferrer in 3

http://i50.tinypic.com/fb93qq.jpg

Oh man. If only it would come true. :drool:

70-68
06-04-2012, 10:10 PM
True, but only the top 3 have been facing those threats in recent Slams. I'd classify Soderling (when he was healthy), Tsonga (bar on clay), Berdych and Del Potro as the biggest threats to take out one of the current top 4 at a Slam. Federer has faced them 4 times in the last 6 Slams, Djokovic 4, Nadal 3 and Murray 0!

Read this in whatever way you want, but it's at least quite a coincidence for sure.

Isner is as dangerous as any of the players you mention, and Murray beat him at the USO. But I guess it doesn't count for you... Definitely more dangerous than washed up Roddick, Tipsarevic (Ret.), or Tomic in a Wimbledon QF.
Also, Ferrer on clay >>> Almagro on clay > Del Potro on clay >>> Tsonga on clay.

Mark Lenders
06-04-2012, 10:18 PM
Isner is as dangerous as any of the players you mention, and Murray beat him at the USO. But I guess it doesn't count for you... Definitely more dangerous than washed up Roddick, Tipsarevic (Ret.), or Tomic in a Wimbledon QF.
Also, Ferrer on clay >>> Almagro on clay > Del Potro on clay >>> Tsonga on clay.

Because he isn't. He has the best serve on tour, but his return and ground game are seriously lacking. He is far less likely to beat top players than the guys I mentioned. I guess he was the toughest opponent Murray has faced at the QF stage in recent times though, as he's always a threat with that serve. Don't you think it's a bit weird that all the other top 4 players have faced the so-called big hitters many times over the past six Slams and Murray hasn't faced them even once?

And is that clay rank serious? How many times have Ferrer or Almagro got past the QF stage at Roland Garros? Almagro has an excuse as he faced Nadal twice in QF, but not Ferrer... Ferrer having a chance to do so this time is purely contingent on a very favorable draw. Had say Berdych drawn Granollers in R4 and Ferrer drawn Del Potro, right now Berdych would probably be gearing up for his quarterfinal match against Murray (with very good chance to make semis) and Ferrer would likely be on a plane back home.

JoWillyTso
06-04-2012, 10:30 PM
Because he isn't. He has the best serve on tour, but his return and ground game are seriously lacking. He is far less likely to beat top players than the guys I mentioned. I guess he was the toughest opponent Murray has faced at the QF stage in recent times though, as he's always a threat with that serve. Don't you think it's a bit weird that all the other top 4 players have faced the so-called big hitters many times over the past six Slams and Murray hasn't faced them even once?

And is that clay rank serious? How many times have Ferrer or Almagro got past the QF stage at Roland Garros? Almagro has an excuse as he faced Nadal twice in QF, but not Ferrer... Ferrer having a chance to do so this time is purely contingent on a very favorable draw. Had say Berdych drawn Granollers in R4 and Ferrer drawn Del Potro, right now Berdych would probably be gearing up for his quarterfinal match against Murray (with very good chance to make semis) and Ferrer would likely be on a plane back home.

Usually I agree with you Mark but Djokovic and Rafa have only played these big hitters 3 times between them in the slams between 2011 AO, so I think you are overestimating how often these big hitters even get to the QF stage: Djokovic vs Berdych in AO 2011, Rafa vs Soderling in 2011 French Open and Rafa vs Berdych in AO 2012.

70-68
06-04-2012, 10:41 PM
Because he isn't. He has the best serve on tour, but his return and ground game are seriously lacking. He is far less likely to beat top players than the guys I mentioned. I guess he was the toughest opponent Murray has faced at the QF stage in recent times though, as he's always a threat with that serve. Don't you think it's a bit weird that all the other top 4 players have faced the so-called big hitters many times over the past six Slams and Murray hasn't faced them even once?

And is that clay rank serious? How many times have Ferrer or Almagro got past the QF stage at Roland Garros? Almagro has an excuse as he faced Nadal twice in QF, but not Ferrer... Ferrer having a chance to do so this time is purely contingent on a very favorable draw. Had say Berdych drawn Granollers in R4 and Ferrer drawn Del Potro, right now Berdych would probably be gearing up for his quarterfinal match against Murray (with very good chance to make semis) and Ferrer would likely be on a plane back home.

Yes, it's so weird. It's a conspiracy.
I still don't know how you expect Tsonga or Soderling to beat Murray at AO when they couldn't even beat Dolgopolov and Nishikori.
And ask Nadal, Federer, or Djokovic how dangerous Isner is when he is playing his best.

Mark Lenders
06-04-2012, 10:45 PM
Usually I agree with you Mark but Djokovic and Rafa have only played these big hitters 3 times between them in the slams between 2011 AO, so I think you are overestimating how often these big hitters even get to the QF stage: Djokovic vs Berdych in AO 2011, Rafa vs Soderling in 2011 French Open and Rafa vs Berdych in AO 2012.

Rafa:

2011 Roland Garros QF - Soderling
2011 Wimbledon R4 - Del Potro
2012 Australian Open - Berdych

(If you want to consider him, Cilic in R4 of AO 2011)

3/4 in 6

Djokovic:

2011 AO - Berdych in QF
2011 FO - Del Potro in R3
2011 W - Tsonga in semis (guess this wasn't pre-SF though)
Tomorrow - Tsonga in RG quarters

3 or 4 in 6

Federer:

2011 W - Tsonga
2011 USO - Tsonga
2012 AO - Del Potro
Tomorrow - Del Potro

4 in 6


Murray has 0 in 6. Isner has the toughest opponent he's faced prior to semis in the last six Slams (or if you consider Ferrer dangerous then him tomorrow).

Mark Lenders
06-04-2012, 10:49 PM
Yes, it's so weird. It's a conspiracy.
I still don't know how you expect Tsonga or Soderling to beat Murray at AO when they couldn't even beat Dolgopolov and Nishikori.
And ask Nadal, Federer, or Djokovic how dangerous Isner is when he is playing his best.

Well, don't want to call conspiracy without proof, but it does seem a bit bizarre, that's all. You're not telling me that Chela, Dolgopolov, Lopez, exhausted Nishikori and co. are as dangerous as Del Potro, Berdych and co., are you?

And yes, I'll give you Isner. A guy with that serve is always an undesired opponent. Still don't think he's quite as dangerous as Tsonga or Berdych in a Slam though; he usually spends too much energy in early rounds and is too serve-reliant. Unless his serve is really clicking, he has no chance against the top guys.

allpro
06-04-2012, 10:53 PM
murray is toast.

LocoPorElTenis
06-04-2012, 11:04 PM
Ferrer will win, and it's not gonna be close

Jimnik
06-04-2012, 11:42 PM
Finally Ferrer can make SF here. Long long long overdue.

reery
06-04-2012, 11:44 PM
Ferrer.

asmazif
06-04-2012, 11:50 PM
You have forgot Wawrinka in USO 2010.

and Berdych RG 2010.

out_grinder
06-04-2012, 11:51 PM
Rafa:

2011 Roland Garros QF - Soderling
2011 Wimbledon R4 - Del Potro
2012 Australian Open - Berdych

(If you want to consider him, Cilic in R4 of AO 2011)

3/4 in 6

Djokovic:

2011 AO - Berdych in QF
2011 FO - Del Potro in R3
2011 W - Tsonga in semis (guess this wasn't pre-SF though)
Tomorrow - Tsonga in RG quarters

3 or 4 in 6

Federer:

2011 W - Tsonga
2011 USO - Tsonga
2012 AO - Del Potro
Tomorrow - Del Potro

4 in 6


Murray has 0 in 6. Isner has the toughest opponent he's faced prior to semis in the last six Slams (or if you consider Ferrer dangerous then him tomorrow).

You're picking and choosing who you, personally, consider 'dangerous' opponents and then using that criteria to suggest that Murray hasn't faced any 'dangerous' opponents. Gasquet can be an absolute winner-machine when he's on as well, and Murray just played him. But Mark Lenders doesn't consider him dangerous, therefore Murray still hasn't faced anyone dangerous. You're also forgetting that Murray had drawn Tsonga in the last GS QF, but Tsonga mugged it up. How is that Murray's fault? How is that even 'suspicious' in any way?

This is why you're the only one who finds the situation 'odd'.

Many commentators on TV have said that Murray has the toughest route out of all the top 4 to the SF in this tournament, but because Mark Lenders on MTF for some reason considers one-dimensional ballbashing hard-court specialists Berdych/Del Potro a more dangerous opponent than facing one of the most tenacious clay-court specialists in recent memory who happens to also be on fire at the moment (ie Ferrer) - on his favourite surface - we will have to accept that Mugray once again has a cakewalk draw,

Great logic.

Mark Lenders
06-05-2012, 12:04 AM
You're picking and choosing who you, personally, consider 'dangerous' opponents and then using that criteria to suggest that Murray hasn't faced any 'dangerous' opponents. Gasquet can be an absolute winner-machine when he's on as well, and Murray just played him. But Mark Lenders doesn't consider him dangerous, therefore Murray still hasn't faced anyone dangerous. You're also forgetting that Murray had drawn Tsonga in the last GS QF, but Tsonga mugged it up. How is that Murray's fault? How is that even 'suspicious' in any way?

This is why you're the only one who finds the situation 'odd'.

Many commentators on TV have said that Murray has the toughest route out of all the top 4 to the SF in this tournament, but because Mark Lenders on MTF for some reason considers one-dimensional ballbashing hard-court specialists Berdych/Del Potro a more dangerous opponent than facing one of the most tenacious clay-court specialists in recent memory who happens to also be on fire at the moment (ie Ferrer) - on his favourite surface - we will have to accept that Mugray once again has a cakewalk draw,

Great logic.

When has Gasquet ever beaten a top player at a Slam? Dangerous my backside, he just folds to the first good player he faces time and again.

And 'hardcourt specialists' Del Potro and Berdych have a better resumé at Roland Garros than 'tenacious claycourter' Ferrer, not to mention both are better players than Ferrer. Do you really believe Murray would prefer to have been drawn against Berdych or Del Potro? Especially Berdych who has straight setted him in Roland Garros just two years ago?

Clydey
06-05-2012, 02:17 AM
Ah from the current 5-8 range, there are two guys who are threats to take down top guys/have the weapons to do so: Tsonga on every surface bar clay and Berdych on clay (soon Del Potro will be added when he becomes top 8). It might be a coincidence, but Murray has been avoiding this kind of players at Slams for like two years now.

I'm not just talking about this tournament. And even here he will face a player where the match is fully on his hands. He is like a more advanced version of Ferrer, younger, better groundstrokes, much better touch, equal court coverage with more economic movement.

Murray gets drawn against those players, but they keep losing before he's scheduled to meet them. He has had plenty of tought draws, including this one. Is it his fault the players you mention keep losing before they meet him? Come to think of it, which giants of the game do the top 3 meet in the 4th round and the quarters?

Tennis-Life
06-05-2012, 02:18 AM
Ferrer in 4

Topspindoctor
06-05-2012, 02:19 AM
Hope for an epic 6 hour match, so that Nadal triple bagels any of them in SF :drool:

Clydey
06-05-2012, 02:38 AM
Fair enough. I'd just like to see these guys getting drawn vs Murray instead of the top 3 for once.


Ok, time to debunk this myth.

AO 2012: Tsonga was in his quarter, but Tsonga lost.
US 2011: Both Soderling and Del Potro were in his quarter of the draw. Both lost early.
Wimbledon 2011: Gasquet, Wawrinka, Roddick. Not hugely difficult, but not a cakewalk.
RG 2011: Cakewalk draw.
AO 2011: Soderling and Tsonga in his quarter.
USO 2010: Berdych was in his quarter.

So in 4 or 5 out of the last 6 majors, the players you mentioned have been drawn to face Murray. With that in mind, I have to ask what the fuck you are talking about? It sucks when you have someone who will actually fact check your bullshit.

hipolymer
06-05-2012, 02:51 AM
With Nadal's luck Ferrer will probably win in 5 grueling sets.

Mark Lenders
06-05-2012, 02:55 AM
Ok, time to debunk this myth.

AO 2012: Tsonga was in his quarter, but Tsonga lost.
US 2011: Both Soderling and Del Potro were in his quarter of the draw. Both lost early.
Wimbledon 2011: Gasquet, Wawrinka, Roddick. Not hugely difficult, but not a cakewalk.
RG 2011: Cakewalk draw.
AO 2011: Soderling and Tsonga in his quarter.
USO 2010: Berdych was in his quarter.

So in 4 or 5 out of the last 6 majors, the players you mentioned have been drawn to face Murray. With that in mind, I have to ask what the fuck you are talking about? It sucks when you have someone who will actually fact check your bullshit.

It does suck. Why did you have to burst my bubble ;)?

Anyway, I didn't count 2010 USO (last 6 including RG 12) and he never actually ended up facing those opponents, but ended up facing far less threatening opponents in his quarterfinal matches. Isner is probably the most dangerous player he beat in his 5 consecutive (soon to be 6) semifinal run. Of course Murray can't be blamed for his opponents not reaching the quarters, but still it's quite some luck.

shiaben
06-05-2012, 02:56 AM
I despise Ferrer but I think he'll take out Murray here in 4. I think this will be the first time I will pick him up against a tougher opponent.

Clay Death
06-05-2012, 02:57 AM
ferru will have his chances.

Clydey
06-05-2012, 02:58 AM
It does suck. Why did you have to burst my bubble ;)?

Anyway, I didn't count 2010 USO (last 6 including RG 12) and he never actually ended up facing those opponents, but ended up facing far less threatening opponents in his quarterfinal matches. Isner is probably the most dangerous player he beat in his 5 consecutive (soon to be 6) semifinal run. Of course Murray can't be blamed for his opponents not reaching the quarters, but still it's quite some luck.

The top 3 have had plenty of that kind of luck too. People don't tend to point it out in their case, though. No idea why, but people only focus on Murray's draw when they seek to criticise.

Topspindoctor
06-05-2012, 02:59 AM
I actually want Pushray to win so that Nadal can crush the hopes of 1-2 Mugraytards on this forum. Especially Sapeod's.

"Andy played awful, if he played well, he'd totally dominate Nadal in 3 sets"

Mark Lenders
06-05-2012, 03:03 AM
The top 3 have had plenty of that kind of luck too. People don't tend to point it out in their case, though. No idea why, but people only focus on Murray's draw when they seek to criticise.

Because they've each faced these danger players 3/4 times in these past 6 Slams, while Murray has faced Chela, Dolgo and co.

shiaben
06-05-2012, 03:05 AM
I actually want Pushray to win so that Nadal can crush the hopes of 1-2 Mugraytards on this forum. Especially Sapeod's.

"Andy played awful, if he played well, he'd totally dominate Nadal in 3 sets"

Actually I want Ferrer. Why? Because I know for a fact there are tards that think Ferrer is Nadal's Achilles's heel just because each time Ferrer faced Nadal at a slam Nadal unluckily happened to be injured and subsequently lost those matches. A win here would close the mouth of each and every single hater.

Clydey
06-05-2012, 03:16 AM
Because they've each faced these danger players 3/4 times in these past 6 Slams, while Murray has faced Chela, Dolgo and co.

Federer has faced one of those players in 4 of the last 6 majors. So he hasn't been particularly lucky.

Djokovic has faced one of those players in the last 6 majors. Almost as lucky as Murray.

Nadal has faced one of those players in 3 of the last 6 majors. So he has been lucky a few times.

So Murray has had a fortunate run recently, but so has Djokovic. And even Nadal has been fortunate to a certain extent.

Mark Lenders
06-05-2012, 03:21 AM
Federer has faced one of those players in 4 of the last 6 majors. So he hasn't been particularly lucky.

Djokovic has faced one of those players in the last 6 majors. Almost as lucky as Murray.

Nadal has faced one of those players in 3 of the last 6 majors. So he has been lucky a few times.

So Murray has had a fortunate run recently, but so has Djokovic. And even Nadal has been fortunate to a certain extent.

Djokovic:

AO 2011 - Berdych QF

RG 2011 - Del Potro R3

W 2011 - Tsonga SF (guess this one doesn't count)

Tomorrow - Tsonga QF

3 or 4/6

Nadal:

RG 2011 - Soderling QF

W 2011 - Del Potro R4

AO 2012 - Berdych QF

(And Cilic R4 AO 2011 if you want to include him).

3 or 4/6

JediFed
06-05-2012, 03:24 AM
Ferrer faced Nadal at a slam Nadal unluckily happened to be injured and subsequently lost those matches

It's not possible to defeat healthy Nadal. It's a MTF law. Soderking defeated an injured Nadal here in '09.

Ackms421
06-05-2012, 03:29 AM
It's not possible to defeat healthy Nadal. It's a MTF law. Soderking defeated an injured Nadal here in '09.

He probably was actually injured though, unless he skipped Wimbledon (as defending champ) two weeks later for no particular reason. Also, he had beaten Soderling 6-1 6-0 or something like that a couple weeks before the French. He obviously was not 100% at Roland Garros.

Absolute Anthropoid
06-05-2012, 03:29 AM
I fear that Murray will come through in 4 sets.

abraxas21
06-05-2012, 03:29 AM
hopefully andy murray

Clydey
06-05-2012, 03:29 AM
Djokovic:

AO 2011 - Berdych QF

RG 2011 - Del Potro R3

W 2011 - Tsonga SF (guess this one doesn't count)

Tomorrow - Tsonga QF

4/6

Nadal:

RG 2011 - Soderling QF

W 2011 - Del Potro R4

AO 2012 - Berdych QF

(And Cilic R4 AO 2011 if you want to include him).

3 or 4/6

Nadal is 3 out of 6 and Djokovic is 2 out of 6. Cilic certainly does not count, nor does the semi. We were looking specifically at the early rounds. I missed Del Potro because that was in round 3, so that's 2 out of 6 including him. Tomorrow doesn't count, since I was counting prior to this RG. And if you're counting this RG, Ferrer most certainly should count. He's the best claycourter outside of the top 3 and Murray has lost on every occasion to him on this surface. It would be silly to say he's not a dangerous matchup for Andy.

Either way, your point that Murray gets cakewalk draws is demonstrably false. His draws are just as tough as any other player's, but recently the threats have lost early. As you said, not his fault. He can only beat who is put in front of him. And even if those players had been put in front of him, he has a winning record against all of them except Berdych.

Mark Lenders
06-05-2012, 03:43 AM
Nadal is 3 out of 6 and Djokovic is 2 out of 6. Cilic certainly does not count, nor does the semi. We were looking specifically at the early rounds. I missed Del Potro because that was in round 3, so that's 2 out of 6 including him. Tomorrow doesn't count, since I was counting prior to this RG. And if you're counting this RG, Ferrer most certainly should count. He's the best claycourter outside of the top 3 and Murray has lost on every occasion to him on this surface. It would be silly to say he's not a dangerous matchup for Andy.

Either way, your point that Murray gets cakewalk draws is demonstrably false. His draws are just as tough as any other player's, but recently the threats have lost early. As you said, not his fault. He can only beat who is put in front of him. And even if those players had been put in front of him, he has a winning record against all of them except Berdych.

Fair enough. Still more than Andy though.

And I disagree about Ferrer. He's overrated on clay, at least at Roland Garros (never reached the semis in his life, only third time in quarters), and more importantly Andy or any top player should ever to lose to him when playing well. He just doesn't have the weapons to hit through Murray's defense, the matchup is completely on Murray's hands. Murray is better than Ferrer at like everything; maybe on clay Ferrer moves a little better, but Murray's serve and groundstrokes are clearly superior. Murray should seriously not be losing to Ferrer in the quarters if he's healthy, the match-up is in his hands.

Guys like Tsonga, Berdych, Del Potro... can take matters into their own hands against the top guys and can blow them off the court even if they are playing well. (Del Potro is included in this group because of current ranking, he's obviously not a 'threat' but a legitimate top player steadily making his way back from career threatening injury and surgery).

And yes, it's not Andy's fault. I brought this up to put Murray's Slam semi streak into context. It's a great feat and shows very good consistency. But to me it only shows Murray's ability to consistently beat player who are far inferior to him and don't have the weapons to threaten him, which is a great of course but hardly any indication that he will be winning a Slam soon.

Mr. Oracle
06-05-2012, 03:43 AM
I think Ferrer will outpush Murray in this one in 5.

leng jai
06-05-2012, 03:45 AM
This could go either way, depends on which Murray shows up. Even the good one could be grinded into defeat by Pics on clay though.

yesh222
06-05-2012, 03:46 AM
Ferrer looks very, very good at the moment. If Murray starts out slow again he won't have time to catch up.

Mark Lenders
06-05-2012, 03:47 AM
This could go either way, depends on which Murray shows up. Even the good one could be grinded into defeat by Pics on clay though.

How though? Murray is a better grinder than Ferrer, and essentially covers as much court with far less effort (much better anticipation) so really shouldn't tire out. And he will get a lot more free points off serve/big grounstrokes as well.

Even Djokovic and Nadal can struggle to outgrind a good Murray, let alone Ferrer.

Clydey
06-05-2012, 03:54 AM
Fair enough. Still more than Andy though.

And I disagree about Ferrer. He's overrated on clay, at least at Roland Garros (never reached the semis in his life, only third time in quarters), and more importantly Andy or any top player should ever to lose to him when playing well. He just doesn't have the weapons to hit through Murray's defense, the matchup is completely on Murray's hands. Murray is better than Ferrer at like everything; maybe on clay Ferrer moves a little better, but Murray's serve and groundstrokes are clearly superior. Murray should seriously not be losing to Ferrer in the quarters if he's healthy, the match-up is in his hands.

He has beaten Murray on clay every time. You are trying to stack the deck in favour of your argument if you say that he's an example of an easy draw for Murray. Nothing could be further from the truth and any reasonable person on this site knows that Murray is the underdog in that match.

Guys like Tsonga, Berdych, Del Potro... can take matters into their own hands against the top guys and can blow them off the court even if they are playing well. (Del Potro is included in this group because of current ranking, he's obviously not a 'threat' but a legitimate top player steadily making his way back from career threatening injury and surgery).

And yes, it's not Andy's fault. I brought this up to put Murray's Slam semi streak into context. It's a great feat and shows very good consistency. But to me it only shows Murray's ability to consistently beat player who are far inferior to him and don't have the weapons to threaten him, which is a great of course but hardly any indication that he will be winning a Slam soon.

He consistently beats all but one of the 'danger' players you mentioned. What on earth makes you think it would be any different in a major, given that Murray plays his best tennis at those events? Whatever you think of Murray's record at the business end of majors, he doesn't often fuck up early on. If he can handle those guys outside of the majors, it stands to reason that he would handle them at the majors, given that he is much better and more consistent than those guys at the slams.

Their inconsistency in actually getting to face Murray proves that point. Moreover, if they are losing to inferior players early on, what on earth makes you think they would beat Andy if they had managed to somehow scrape through? It's a weak argument all round and is a pretty transparent attempt to discredit Murray, as is so often the case on this site. He rarely seems to get the recognition he deserves for what he has achieved in the game.

Clydey
06-05-2012, 03:55 AM
How though? Murray is a better grinder than Ferrer, and essentially covers as much court with far less effort (much better anticipation) so really shouldn't tire out. And he will get a lot more free points off serve/big grounstrokes as well.

Even Djokovic and Nadal can struggle to outgrind a good Murray, let alone Ferrer.

Because Ferrer is a better clay court player than Andy. The H2H suggests that and Ferrer's results on the surface suggest that. The only thing Murray has over him on the surface is a single RG semi-final, which was aided by a legit cakewalk draw.

leng jai
06-05-2012, 03:56 AM
How though? Murray is a better grinder than Ferrer, and essentially covers as much court with far less effort (much better anticipation) so really shouldn't tire out. And he will get a lot more free points off serve/big grounstrokes as well.

Even Djokovic and Nadal can struggle to outgrind a good Murray, let alone Ferrer.

I said could, not would. We'll see what happens. It's not a clear cut win for Murray if it turns into a claycourt grindfest thats for sure. I wouldn't favor him in that match up. Pics can go into modes he just never misses for extended periods of time.

Mark Lenders
06-05-2012, 04:04 AM
He has beaten Murray on clay every time. You are trying to stack the deck in favour of your argument if you say that he's an example of an easy draw for Murray. Nothing could be further from the truth and any reasonable person on this site knows that Murray is the underdog in that match.

I'm actually being complimentary of Murray here. I don't consider Ferrer a tough draw for him because I consider Ferrer a player that he should beat under normal conditions. Would definitely not be a good sign if Murray got outgrinded over 5 sets by a player who is in some ways an inferior version of Murray himself and six years older.

You should really trust your man a bit more. It's just Ferrer he's facing, not Nadal.

He consistently beats all but one of the 'danger' players you mentioned. What on earth makes you think it would be any different in a major, given that Murray plays his best tennis at those events? Whatever you think of Murray's record at the business end of majors, he doesn't often fuck up early on. If he can handle those guys outside of the majors, it stands to reason that he would handle them at the majors, given that he is much better and more consistent than those guys at the slams.

Their inconsistency in actually getting to face Murray proves that point. Moreover, if they are losing to inferior players early on, what on earth makes you think they would beat Andy if they had managed to somehow scrape through? It's a weak argument all round and is a pretty transparent attempt to discredit Murray, as is so often the case on this site. He rarely seems to get the recognition he deserves for what he has achieved in the game.

Not true. He has a negative record against Berdych overall, and his sole defeat to Tsonga has come at Grand Slam level. Yes, Murray is more consistent than them, but what makes these guys tough opponents is that they can be unplayable when at their best. Federer is better than Tsonga, yet Jo completely blew him off the court at Wimbledon last year despite Federer not playing badly at all, well on the contrary. There's always danger when you face a top big hitter. In short: if Tsonga/Berdych redline their game for a few sets, their opponent is probably going home (it doesn't happen that often, otherwise they'd top the rankings and win Slams). Or are you telling me Chela, Dolgopolov and co. are equally or more dangerous opponents?

And that argument about them losing early makes no sense; everyone knows they can be inconsistent, but are always dangerous. Are you telling me Nishikori was a more dangerous opponent for Murray at AO than Jo would have been had he scrapped through?

And Murray gets plenty of credit in this site, don't know what you're on about. He does have haters and people who don't like him, but every relevant player does.

Mark Lenders
06-05-2012, 04:12 AM
Because Ferrer is a better clay court player than Andy. The H2H suggests that and Ferrer's results on the surface suggest that. The only thing Murray has over him on the surface is a single RG semi-final, which was aided by a legit cakewalk draw.

True, that was one of the easiest draws I've seen in a GS tournament. Over five sets, I still favor Murray though. As you said, he plays his best tennis at Slams and he's considerably younger than Ferrer.

If, as expected, the match turns into a grindathon, Murray should outlast Ferrer, especially as the Spaniard will be making most of the running - I fully expect Murray to dictate with his groundstrokes.

rocketassist
06-05-2012, 04:15 AM
Who was Murray's projected QF opponent here last year? Of course it turned out to be a past it Chela, but who was the seed?

Troicki who is an absolute waste of a draw spot in the 4R was a dream draw though.

Clydey
06-05-2012, 04:16 AM
I'm actually being complimentary of Murray here. I don't consider Ferrer a tough draw for him because I consider Ferrer a player that he should beat under normal conditions. Would definitely not be a good sign if Murray got outgrinded over 5 sets by a player who is in some ways an inferior version of Murray himself and six years older.

You should really trust your man a bit more. It's just Ferrer he's facing, not Nadal.

I'm realistic, whereas you are being wholly unrealistic. Look at Murray's clay record against Ferrer. Look at their respective career records on the surface. Neither support what you are saying. Can Murray win? Of course he can. Is he the favourite? No reasonable person would say that he is and any Murray fan who says that he is would likely be accused of being a biased fanboy.

Not true. He has a negative record against Berdych overall, and his sole defeat to Tsonga has come at Grand Slam level.

That's why I said:

He consistently beats all but one of the 'danger' players you mentioned.

And that defeat to Tsonga? That was in January of 2008. Murray hadn't even been past the 4th round of a major at that point.


Yes, Murray is more consistent than them, but what makes these guys tough opponents is that they can be unplayable when at their best. Federer is better than Tsonga, yet Jo completely blew him off the court at Wimbledon last year despite Federer not playing badly at all, well on the contrary. There's always danger when you face a top big hitter. Or are you telling me Chela, Dolgopolov and co. are equally or more dangerous opponents?

No, I'm not. But they were good enough to prevent the 'danger' players from even getting to Murray. Your whole argument is inconsistent. Murray has a good record against almost all of your 'danger' players and you think they pose a bigger threat than Ferrer, who has a dominant record over Murray on the surface they are about to play on.

And that argument about them losing early makes no sense; everyone knows they can be inconsistent, but are always dangerous. Are you telling me Nishikori was a more dangerous opponent for Murray at AO than Jo would have been had he scrapped through?

I'm saying that they clearly were not in good form and were unlikely to beat Murray if they couldn't beat lesser players, even allowing for their inconsistency.

And Murray gets plenty of credit in this site, don't know what you're on about. He does have haters and people who don't like him, but every relevant player does.

He gets nothing like the credit he deserves. Not sure how long you've been around, but the dude gets a ridiculous amount of criticism on here.

Mark Lenders
06-05-2012, 04:18 AM
Who was Murray's projected QF opponent here last year? Of course it turned out to be a past it Chela, but who was the seed?

Troicki who is an absolute waste of a draw spot in the 4R was a dream draw though.

Melzer :o

The 2011 RG draw was a joke all around. Djokovic vs Del Potro in round 3 and Montanes vs Fognini in round 4. In what world is this even remotely fair?

rocketassist
06-05-2012, 04:20 AM
Melzer :o

The 2011 RG draw was a joke all around. Djokovic vs Del Potro in round 3 and Montanes vs Fognini in round 4. In what world is this even remotely fair?

Berdych fucked up big time losing in 5 sets to Stephane Robert in the first round. A ridiculous loss. Had he got through I think he would have been where Montanes was.

Yes QF by seed number was Melzer, but logically it should have been 11th seeded Almugro who is the much more accomplished clay courter. He mugged out to Kubot though :rolls:

Clydey
06-05-2012, 04:20 AM
Who was Murray's projected QF opponent here last year? Of course it turned out to be a past it Chela, but who was the seed?

Troicki who is an absolute waste of a draw spot in the 4R was a dream draw though.

Can't recall. It was a legit joke draw, though. Not like some of the draws that people claim were a cakewalk, but really weren't.

leng jai
06-05-2012, 04:21 AM
Worse than Ljuba Truba's SF draw?

Mark Lenders
06-05-2012, 04:23 AM
I'm realistic, whereas you are being wholly unrealistic. Look at Murray's clay record against Ferrer. Look at their respective career records on the surface. Neither support what you are saying. Can Murray win? Of course he can. Is he the favourite? No reasonable person would say that he is and any Murray fan who says that he is would likely be accused of being a biased fanboy.



That's why I said:



And that defeat to Tsonga? That was in January of 2008. Murray hadn't even been past the 4th round of a major at that point.




No, I'm not. But they were good enough to prevent the 'danger' players from even getting to Murray. Your whole argument is inconsistent. Murray has a good record against almost all of your 'danger' players and you think they pose a bigger threat than Ferrer, who has a dominant record over Murray on the surface they are about to play on.



I'm saying that they clearly were not in good form and were unlikely to beat Murray if they couldn't beat lesser players, even allowing for their inconsistency.



He gets nothing like the credit he deserves. Not sure how long you've been around, but the dude gets a ridiculous amount of criticism on here.

Fair enough on most points, I guess. And yes, Murray gets some criticism here, but no more than, say, Nadal. He's an easy target because of being so hyped and not having a Slam title. Some people judge him not by normal standards but by the expectations the media create. All will chance if/when he can get a Slam - I mean, some will call it a fluke for sure, but the overall criticism will tone down.

Mark Lenders
06-05-2012, 04:27 AM
Berdych fucked up big time losing in 5 sets to Stephane Robert in the first round. A ridiculous loss. Had he got through I think he would have been where Montanes was.

Yes QF by seed number was Melzer, but logically it should have been 11th seeded Almugro who is the much more accomplished clay courter. He mugged out to Kubot though :rolls:

Yup, still remember both Tomas and Almagro bowing out in the first round :facepalm:.

Murray turned out to have an even easier path in AO 2012 though. Nishikori running on fumes was the toughest opponent he faced before semis, although the draw was kind of hard on paper.

out_grinder
06-05-2012, 10:48 AM
I'm actually being complimentary of Murray here. I don't consider Ferrer a tough draw for him because I consider Ferrer a player that he should beat under normal conditions. Would definitely not be a good sign if Murray got outgrinded over 5 sets by a player who is in some ways an inferior version of Murray himself and six years older.

You should really trust your man a bit more. It's just Ferrer he's facing, not Nadal.



Not true. He has a negative record against Berdych overall, and his sole defeat to Tsonga has come at Grand Slam level. Yes, Murray is more consistent than them, but what makes these guys tough opponents is that they can be unplayable when at their best. Federer is better than Tsonga, yet Jo completely blew him off the court at Wimbledon last year despite Federer not playing badly at all, well on the contrary. There's always danger when you face a top big hitter. In short: if Tsonga/Berdych redline their game for a few sets, their opponent is probably going home (it doesn't happen that often, otherwise they'd top the rankings and win Slams). Or are you telling me Chela, Dolgopolov and co. are equally or more dangerous opponents?

And that argument about them losing early makes no sense; everyone knows they can be inconsistent, but are always dangerous. Are you telling me Nishikori was a more dangerous opponent for Murray at AO than Jo would have been had he scrapped through?

And Murray gets plenty of credit in this site, don't know what you're on about. He does have haters and people who don't like him, but every relevant player does.

You are ridiculous - the only players you think are dangerous are apparently brainless ballbashers when they are 'redlining their game' (meaning they are hitting even harder and more brainlessly than ever).

Are you a fan of the WTA? - I think Sharapova's game would be right up your street.

You also think that ballbashers SHOULD be redlining their game all the time throughout the entirety of every match they play. If that is the case - why do we call it redlining? Because we know it's physically impossible to sustain painting the lines for an entire match - otherwise redlining would be their normal level of play. The top 4 guys know that if they're also having a good day, all they need to do is stay the course, and they will break down - breaking down is inherent in the ballbasher's game.

Did it ever occur to you that brainless ballbashing plays right into the hands of certain players?

Murray not as much as Djokovic, but look at Djokovic's track-record against ALL the big hitters you mention. He absolutely dominates every single one of them, because he merely knows their patterns of play, redirects their pace and forces them to move which they don't like doing. Only Tsonga has a decent record against him, probably because of his proficiency at the net and much better touch than all the others, but then again Tsonga is by far the least 'ballbashy' out of all the 'big hitters' you idolize.

Murray is an inferior version of Djokovic - but if he had the talent to implement his game plan well - ballbashers actually play right into his hand. He would be beating all of them including Berdych (he has already decent records against Delpotro and Tsonga).

Your skewed tennis world view is that ballbashers >>>>>>> every other style. This is BS, because ballbashing plays right into the hands of skilled counterpunchers like Djokovic and even Murray.

Allez
06-05-2012, 12:00 PM
I'm realistic, whereas you are being wholly unrealistic. Look at Murray's clay record against Ferrer. Look at their respective career records on the surface. Neither support what you are saying. Can Murray win? Of course he can. Is he the favourite? No reasonable person would say that he is and any Murray fan who says that he is would likely be accused of being a biased fanboy.


That's right. Murray cannot be considered the favourite here, especially given how well Ferrer's been playing. No ways.


Your whole argument is inconsistent. Murray has a good record against almost all of your 'danger' players and you think they pose a bigger threat than Ferrer, who has a dominant record over Murray on the surface they are about to play on.


:haha: That is MTF logic for you. Crazy stuff :lol:

duong
06-05-2012, 01:34 PM
Frankly speaking I don't know how to rate Murray at the moment (he played amazing last two sets yesterday), and Ferrer has often disappointed in Roland-Garros, esp in quarterfinal, then I really don't know.

I take a risk in the end : Ferrer in 5.

Vida
06-05-2012, 03:09 PM
ferrer in 3 or 4.

Sapeod
06-05-2012, 07:53 PM
I actually want Pushray to win so that Nadal can crush the hopes of 1-2 Mugraytards on this forum. Especially Sapeod's.

"Andy played awful, if he played well, he'd totally dominate Nadal in 3 sets"
If Andy plays well, he can give Nadal a challenge. Beat him? Maybe, if Nadal is off.

Nothing will crush me, Nadaltards. You can throw whatever you have at me, but nothing will work :wavey:

bornnl
06-05-2012, 09:32 PM
Murray is a bit underrated by bookies and it smells strange...,maybe they know something that we dont.
Murray at 1.18 in London and he lost, murray 1.2 in Shangaj.
Ok it wasnt on clay but still huge diffrence here.
I think ferrer will win this one because this year RG favors natural claycourt players like nadal, ferrer, almagro, errani, cibulkova.
I remember match in AO where Murray won in TB of 4. set but it was main to luck and Ferrer was all over him...and Ferrer almost took out Nadal in Barcelona.
Murray back seems fine but it is still question mark all over it just like Delpotro knee and it might become factor in grooling match, like this one should be.
When you consider all factors Ferrer should prevail but he is a bit overrated.

Andi-M
06-05-2012, 09:34 PM
Ferrer is favourite, an excellent seasoned claycourt player with a great game in decent form.

However, I would really like to see Andy be a man here take it to Ferrer and win. i know on clay Ferrer is a better all-round player than andy.

But Andy's talent trascends onto clay pretty well i mean the demolition job on Gasquet in sets 3 and 4= 36 winners vs 6 unforced errors is pretty unstoppable form. The back seems OK atm, if he can bring this 'A' game that we know he has on clay from time to time, than he can and should win.

bornnl
06-05-2012, 09:35 PM
Frankly speaking I don't know how to rate Murray at the moment (he played amazing last two sets yesterday), and Ferrer has often disappointed in Roland-Garros, esp in quarterfinal, then I really don't know.

I take a risk in the end : Ferrer in 5.

It is easy to play against player who doesnt posses fitness like you do.
Gasquet did same to Haas...., but ferrer will get everything back and is on same fitness level as Murray if not better.

Super Djoker
06-05-2012, 11:22 PM
Murray in 4 ! Ferrer can,t handle Murray,s variety ! Too much pushing from Ferrer and his serve is pathetic !

NadalSharapova
06-05-2012, 11:41 PM
there have been lots of upsets this week but no upset here, ferrer will win.

guga2120
06-05-2012, 11:47 PM
I thought Gasquet would beat him, and then he went into freak mode in the last two sets. He will play like that throughout to beat Ferrer, and attack his serves often. I think Pics in 4, but would not be suprised if Andy pulls it out in 5.

cocrcici
06-05-2012, 11:49 PM
Murray

rocketassist
06-06-2012, 12:33 AM
Murray is 11/8 at most bookies. Superb odds.

NadalSharapova
06-06-2012, 01:03 AM
Murray is 11/8 at most bookies. Superb odds.

crap odds, he is 7/4 on betfair

SheepleBuster
06-06-2012, 01:04 AM
Injured :haha: :haha:

Ferrer won't stand much chance if Andy plays like he did in the last two sets against Gasquet.

You are aware of that Gasquest is a mental midget and Ferrer owns Murray on clay?

cutesteve22
06-06-2012, 07:10 AM
injured Murray in easy 3

Absolute Anthropoid
06-06-2012, 07:57 AM
Murray def Ferrer 4-6 4-6 6-1 7-5 6-3

Sofonda Cox
06-06-2012, 08:38 AM
Ferrer will beat him in straight sets and every single tennis fan around the world will enjoy seeing Murray and his fake injury walking off either the PC or SL court.

Scottish scum.

:rolls:

MaxPower
06-06-2012, 08:53 AM
yes it was strange that many bookies offered great odds on Murray. What's up with that? It's a 5-seter and conditions could be heavy. In a 5-seter Murray can afford to start like crap and even drop 1-2 sets.

His serve is better, his potential is higher. Ferrer's gonna have a hard time penetrating Murrays defense and Murray will be up hunting for breaks with his good returns and Ferrer's not so strong serve.

To me it's 50-50 at worst. If healthy I even hold Murray as a slight favorite

TigerTim
06-06-2012, 09:25 AM
yes it was strange that many bookies offered great odds on Murray. What's up with that? It's a 5-seter and conditions could be heavy. In a 5-seter Murray can afford to start like crap and even drop 1-2 sets.

His serve is better, his potential is higher. Ferrer's gonna have a hard time penetrating Murrays defense and Murray will be up hunting for breaks with his good returns and Ferrer's not so strong serve.

To me it's 50-50 at worst. If healthy I even hold Murray as a slight favorite

UK bookies I presume? Perhaps they have grown good a luring the UK crowd to bet on yet another Murray GS loss. Give me 10-1 and I still wouldn't back Murray in a GS final :lol:

EddieNero
06-06-2012, 10:10 AM
On paper Ferrer appears as the clear favourite since he won all of their claycourt meetings, that said he has never beaten Murray in a major before so this one can go either way.

merryploughbhoy
06-06-2012, 11:19 AM
Murray is going to win this, Murray like all the best players raise their game at the slams, Ferrer won't know whats hit him if he is going to base this meeting on previous ones on clay at masters events etc. Great odds on a Murray win aswell, easy money I feel. Ferrer is vastly over rated on clay, I'v seen guys like Almagro and Monfils make him look silly on it recently so I think Murray will do that and more, I can see a blowout towards the end. Something like 6-4, 5-7, 6-2, 6-1 Murray !

gulzhan
06-06-2012, 11:27 AM
First, Murray is not injured and second, he will win this. Surprised MTF see Ferrer as the favorite.

Murray in 4.

delboy
06-06-2012, 02:34 PM
Murray, in 3 or 4. Hopefully anyway, I mean who the hell wants to see Ferrer get annihilated by Nadal..

Pirata.
06-06-2012, 03:16 PM
Murray, in 3 or 4. Hopefully anyway, I mean who the hell wants to see Ferrer get annihilated by Nadal..

Everyone still remaining in the draw will likely be annihilated by Nadal :shrug:

mickymouse
06-06-2012, 03:23 PM
Is anything wrong with Murray? Why are his odds so high?

Orka_n
06-06-2012, 03:30 PM
yes it was strange that many bookies offered great odds on Murray. What's up with that? It's a 5-seter and conditions could be heavy. In a 5-seter Murray can afford to start like crap and even drop 1-2 sets.

His serve is better, his potential is higher. Ferrer's gonna have a hard time penetrating Murrays defense and Murray will be up hunting for breaks with his good returns and Ferrer's not so strong serve.

To me it's 50-50 at worst. If healthy I even hold Murray as a slight favoriteNah. Ferrer has his inside-out FH as a weapon. But even without it, he doesn't NEED to penetrate Murray's defense to win this - Pics just doesn't miss much on this surface can grind Murray down.

If this comes down to a dogfight then Murray might win due to Ferrer's lack of self-belief on big points, but I don't think that will happen.

Marc23
06-06-2012, 11:28 PM
You'll be whining about something, that much is definite.

About?

Marc23
06-06-2012, 11:31 PM
Ferrer in 4 and Sapeod will whine about Andy "giving" David the victory by playing poorly

Sapeod,where are you?

We miss you :worship:

leng jai
06-07-2012, 12:49 AM
Ferrer in 4 and Sapeod will whine about Andy "giving" David the victory by playing poorly

I'd give you a pat on the back for this but lets be honest - it was a pretty obvious call :)