Was that point at 6-3, 5-4, 30-30 a turning point in the Fedal rivalry? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Was that point at 6-3, 5-4, 30-30 a turning point in the Fedal rivalry?

Johnny Groove
03-18-2012, 07:22 PM
Fed came out last night destroying Rafa. Should have won it 6-4, 6-2. But Nadal as we all know never gives in, and fought back. Roger was close to choking, very close, and that 30 all point was huge. It was a long rally, with both guys trading offense and defense, Roger scrambling like never before, and eventually, Rafa made the error. Then the rain delay and the ace to close it out.

But what if Rafa had won that point? Would Uncle Toni keep the rains away long enough for him to get that break point? Would he have let it rain at all? Would Federer be as clutch to smack an ace if it was 30-40 instead of 40-30? And then if Rafa breaks for 5 all, he has all the momentum. I think it was a big turning point. What says you?

SerialKillerToBe
03-18-2012, 07:24 PM
Nadal has won the last 5 slam matches he's played with Federer. I don't think so.

Filo V.
03-18-2012, 07:27 PM
No. For starters, Roger has a winning record on HC vs Nadal anyway. So this result just reinforced the fact Roger is the better player between the two off clay. That was an awesome fighting point from Roger, and his reaction when he won it showed just how badly he wanted to win. But this match holds little importance when it comes to other matches in different situations, on different surfaces. This rivalry is 100% about match-ups.

samanosuke
03-18-2012, 07:29 PM
Surely not situation or type of point Fed would have won in the past but for turning the things he was at least 5 years late

jcempire
03-18-2012, 07:37 PM
who cares on it

Clay Death
03-18-2012, 07:39 PM
no.


next.

Certinfy
03-18-2012, 07:39 PM
No. If this was a Grand Slam and Federer was 2 points away from taking it then it would be debatable.

HKz
03-18-2012, 07:42 PM
Yeah it would have to have been at a slam to actually have meaning in their rivalry or Federer's mental state against Nadal. I'm sure Federer is a much better state of mind for the next few weeks since he did beat Nadal, but I don't think it'll really matter the next time they play.

Roamed
03-18-2012, 07:45 PM
If Fed wins the next two or three times they play using the same sort of strategy as he did yesterday, then maybe we'll be able to look back and say maybe it was, but I don't expect that to happen really.

sexybeast
03-18-2012, 07:46 PM
I think you guys are overrating this match alittle, this was just a master series match. It was not the final of Wimbledon.

Clay Death
03-18-2012, 07:46 PM
bottom line: clay warrior has---on the average---been vulnerable in best of 3 sets foremats on hard courts for as long as he has been playing.

but this time he lost for some additional reasons as well.

Rafa = Fed Killa
03-18-2012, 07:46 PM
Nadal has won the last 5 slam matches he's played with Federer. I don't think so.

Logic ... Fedtards dont have it

Ibracadabra
03-18-2012, 07:49 PM
yes. Roger will end his career with a positive h2h against rafa now.

FedvsNole
03-18-2012, 07:50 PM
Am i the only one who noticed fed actually stuck to a gameplan that djokovic has employed so sucessfully againt nadal? Nadal even claimed he played well and there wasn't much wind in the first set. Fed used a similar strategy at WTF 2011 against nadal peppering his backhand and was also doing the same at the Aussie open and had won the first set and was up a break and then he started approacing on nadal's forehand throughout the rest of the match too frequently.

People argued fed just needed to be monotonous and keep going to rafa backhand which is exactly what he did ALL match long even returing nadals serve to the backhand. One new adjustment I saw is fed hitting many more TOPSPIN forehands curving into nadals backhand on deuce side as opposed to flat shots so nadal could not run around it and thus was able to pin nadal there much more frequently. He also ocassionaly would hit to rafa's forehand but never went to net and instead on the next shot fed would hit right back to rafa backhand which rafa would be on the run and would miss it. This is exactly the way he should play nadal. While he may lose in miami if he plays nadal, I think from now on if he employs this strategy he will have much much more sucess on grass, and any faster outdoor hard courts.

This match really could have been 6-3, 6-1. Regardless, fed learned from australia and is essentially playing his forehand into rafa backhand. Rafa has a harder time hitting with too much pace off his backhand so even if he tries to redirect up the line to roger backhand which is the lower percentage shot the lack of pace will allow fed to run around and hit a forehand more often than not.

fed's got a big decision to make as far as monte carlo. It starts 2 weeks after miami and bc nole is not playing he could get to the finals and gain 400 points just getting to the finals and really pressure nadal into playing all of his clay tournaments and if he even slips a little fed will have number 2 by roland garros and at least a shot of nole and rafa being paired together as opposed to being number 3 he would have to play both to win it while being numer 2 would give him a 50% shot that he'd only play the winner of nole-rafa.

Orka_n
03-18-2012, 08:19 PM
It was the single most important point in yesterday's match, no doubt about that.

As for its importance in the future, I doubt it will make much difference. One thing that was obvious yesterday though, is that Federer now knows how he needs to play in order to beat Nadal. He needs to keep constant pressure on Nadal and if Fed has a good day like yesterday, he can do it for an entire match. If Roger's level drops however, he will lose. It is that simple. Fed also refused to pull out the slice yesterday even though he likes that shot - an excellent move as Nadal eats slices for breakfast. Peak Federer didn't play this smart against Nadal.

Looner
03-18-2012, 08:20 PM
Yes, if he wins the next 2-3 slam meetings. Otherwise, no.

EddieNero
03-18-2012, 08:29 PM
It was a turning point until the next time Nadal routines him and from then on MTF is going to commence the usual "utter ownage" crap.

Commander Data
03-18-2012, 08:30 PM
Is this thread retarded?

Time Violation
03-18-2012, 08:32 PM
Well, isn't this the first win over Nadal on an outside court in some years? So, while perhaps not a turning point, I don't think it's just "another win" :)

Ash86
03-18-2012, 08:39 PM
It was a turning point until the next time Nadal routines him and from then on MTF is going to commence the usual "utter ownage" crap.

Exactly. If they meet at the next slam i.e. RG will Federer beating him at the IW semis really have an affect? Don't think so. He demolished him far more at the WTF and Rafa still won at the Aus Open. In best of 5 it's very very very hard for Fed to beat Rafa. In best of 3 he's way more vulnerable and Fed could do it - but this match doesn't make much difference.

They've played now 28 times - would be ridiculous if it took that long for Fed to figure out Rafa. He knows the game plan - every player does - it's just hard for him to pull off. Rafa will still beat him more times than he'll beat Rafa.

tennizen
03-18-2012, 08:40 PM
I request CD to come and tell the mods what should be done to this thread.

Ash86
03-18-2012, 08:43 PM
Well, isn't this the first win over Nadal on an outside court in some years? So, while perhaps not a turning point, I don't think it's just "another win" :)

First outdoor win since Madrid 2009. But to put it in context since then they've only had one outdoor match off clay - Miami SF last year so it's not that bad as it seems. To lose to Nadal on clay is normal. Miami last year was an error filled performance from Fed and Rafa didn't have to do much. So this is the second time they've met outdoors on HC since that last outdoors win for Fed - not a turning point for Fed to win it - if anything he was due one.

HKz
03-18-2012, 08:46 PM
First outdoor win since Madrid 2009. But to put it in context since then they've only had one outdoor match off clay - Miami SF last year so it's not that bad as it seems. To lose to Nadal on clay is normal. Miami last year was an error filled performance from Fed and Rafa didn't have to do much. So this is the second time they've met outdoors on HC since that last outdoors win for Fed - not a turning point for Fed to win it - if anything he was due one.

You are forgetting Dubai bro. It isn't an indoor event.

out_grinder
03-18-2012, 08:54 PM
Yes, if he wins the next 2-3 slam meetings. Otherwise, no.

If he wins the next 9-10 slam meetings.

Even then, not really.

emotion
03-18-2012, 08:55 PM
It might matter just because twice in a row vs the top 5, Nadal has had an easy shot to make a comeback look very likely and twice missed it

Ash86
03-18-2012, 08:56 PM
You are forgetting Dubai bro. It isn't an indoor event.

Since after Madrid 2009 Rafa hasn't played Dubai. So when could he have been beaten by Fed at Dubai? Outdoor matches that Nadal/Fed have had since Madrid 09: Madrid 10; Miami 11; RG 11; Aus Open 12; IW 12. Nadal won the first 4, Fed the one yesterday.

And by the way I'm a girl, not a bro.

HKz
03-18-2012, 09:04 PM
Since after Madrid 2009 Rafa hasn't played Dubai. So when could he have been beaten by Fed at Dubai? Outdoor matches that Nadal/Fed have had since Madrid 09: Madrid 10; Miami 11; RG 11; Aus Open 12; IW 12. Nadal won the first 4, Fed the one yesterday.

And by the way I'm a girl, not a bro.

OK, bra, take a look at what you wrote

First outdoor win since Madrid 2009. But to put it in context since then they've only had one outdoor match off clay - Miami SF last year so it's not that bad as it seems. To lose to Nadal on clay is normal. Miami last year was an error filled performance from Fed and Rafa didn't have to do much. So this is the second time they've met outdoors on HC since that last outdoors win for Fed - not a turning point for Fed to win it - if anything he was due one.

Last HC outdoors win = Miami 2005, so this is their 3rd outdoor HC meeting - Dubai 2006, Miami 2011, IW 2012. Hard?

Time Violation
03-18-2012, 09:04 PM
First outdoor win since Madrid 2009. But to put it in context since then they've only had one outdoor match off clay - Miami SF last year so it's not that bad as it seems. To lose to Nadal on clay is normal. Miami last year was an error filled performance from Fed and Rafa didn't have to do much. So this is the second time they've met outdoors on HC since that last outdoors win for Fed - not a turning point for Fed to win it - if anything he was due one.

Well, one could argue that Nadal wasn't probably at his best in Madrid after that 4 hours semifinal match; and even with that match it is only the second outdoor win since 2007, so it should count for something.

Hellraiser
03-18-2012, 09:05 PM
Federer can win everything without Slams in this years, so simple.

Start da Game
03-18-2012, 09:07 PM
Is this thread retarded?

hahaha.....

Vamos_Me_Rafa
03-18-2012, 09:20 PM
The turning point was all those ass whoopings Rafa laid down on Roger.

MaxPower
03-18-2012, 09:23 PM
maybe not. But if he had lost the match it would have been devastating for him so from that perspective it was a huge point for the rivalry

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
03-18-2012, 09:26 PM
The turning point was all those ass whoopings Rafa laid down on Roger.

1 beat down

and alot of close matches that could have gone either way

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
03-18-2012, 09:28 PM
Since after Madrid 2009 Rafa hasn't played Dubai. So when could he have been beaten by Fed at Dubai? Outdoor matches that Nadal/Fed have had since Madrid 09: Madrid 10; Miami 11; RG 11; Aus Open 12; IW 12. Nadal won the first 4, Fed the one yesterday.

And by the way I'm a girl, not a bro.

it means nothing

slow and high bouncing courts always favor rafa

the h2h is meaningless when it comes to rafa and rog

on a low bouncing court rafa has no chance
on a high bouncing court fed should have no chance and yet he can still pull it out

Ad Wim
03-18-2012, 09:28 PM
I would say that the mp was more important. He missed every first serve of that game.
Sat down for a few minutes, was more or less forced to think about the little choke of the past games, and then hit an ace.
That's what makes him the true GOAT.

Evitman
03-18-2012, 09:34 PM
It was a bib BIG point. We call it the Turkey point. And Roger avoided losing it. :worship:

Ash86
03-18-2012, 09:36 PM
OK, bra, take a look at what you wrote

Last HC outdoors win = Miami 2005, so this is their 3rd outdoor HC meeting - Dubai 2006, Miami 2011, IW 2012. Hard?

I didn't say this was their 2nd outdoor HC meeting since Federer's last win on outdoor HC. I said it was their 3rd meeting on outdoor HC since Fed last won against Nadal outdoors i.e. on any surface. This was because it was being suggested Fed not winning outdoors was a big deal - I was just saying that they've not actually met that much on outdoor HC i.e. since 2009 they've had 3 matches on a surface outdoors that Fed would have some chance against Rafa on (clay is incredibly tough for Fed).

But you're right that it's the first outdoor HC win since Miami 2005 which is ridiculous - 7 years!! They've met in 2006, 2009, 2011 and now 2012 on outdoor HC since then.

Commander Data
03-18-2012, 11:03 PM
I request CD to come and tell the mods what should be done to this thread.

I - as his spokes man - can tell you:

"Mods drag this thread outside and let a spotted hyena shit on it 3 days str8ght."

fast_clay
03-18-2012, 11:13 PM
No.

The turning point was the night before the match when the dark Gwen Stafani, Gavin Rossdale and Roger Federer held hands in a circle chanting old latin for 3 hours straight in an attempt to summon the weather... it worked and thoroughly destroyed the match up issue, thereby fully re-inflating federer's testicles pre match...

dombrfc
03-18-2012, 11:15 PM
Good got what an overreaction, overanalysing so much, have not missed you MTF

Fuser59
03-18-2012, 11:36 PM
[QUOTE=Orka_n;11832876]It was the single most important point in yesterday's match, no doubt about that.

As for its importance in the future, I doubt it will make much difference. One thing that was obvious yesterday though, is that Federer now knows how he needs to play in order to beat Nadal. He needs to keep constant pressure on Nadal and if Fed has a good day like yesterday, he can do it for an entire match. If Roger's level drops however, he will lose. It is that simple. Fed also refused to pull out the slice yesterday even though he likes that shot - an excellent move as Nadal eats slices for breakfast. Peak Federer didn't play this smart against Nadal.[/QUOTE

YES and YES...so important the fact that he cannot use slice vs Nadal...he is on it right then and there - point lost..

Infinity
03-19-2012, 02:53 AM
Why do you ask "Was ..."? It should be "Will ...."

Arkulari
03-19-2012, 02:57 AM
No. For starters, Roger has a winning record on HC vs Nadal anyway. So this result just reinforced the fact Roger is the better player between the two off clay. That was an awesome fighting point from Roger, and his reaction when he won it showed just how badly he wanted to win. But this match holds little importance when it comes to other matches in different situations, on different surfaces. This rivalry is 100% about match-ups.

This :yeah:

Silvester
03-19-2012, 03:00 AM
yes. Roger will end his career with a positive h2h against rafa now.


If Federer sticks around long enough to face Rafa a few more times when he's older as well and more declined I think he Could potentially close the gap a bit. who knows though.

TennisGrandSlam
03-19-2012, 04:49 AM
Just a match.

We don't under-estimate Fed's ability to lose to Nadal.

tripwires
03-19-2012, 06:58 AM
Overreaction much?

Luinir
03-19-2012, 07:03 AM
the first, one and last turning point at fedal rivalry is miami 2004. next.

Imperfect Angel
03-19-2012, 02:27 PM
Nadal will toy Fed in slams, he only let him win against him outside slams due to his respect for Fed as the GOAT.:p

fsoica
03-19-2012, 02:37 PM
the first, one and last turning point at fedal rivalry is miami 2004. next.

those 2 rome 06 final missed forehands on mps. that was the moment fed fans knew he will always have a problem, mentally and matchup wise, with the mallorquin.

Mystique
03-19-2012, 02:41 PM
Let us not get ahead of ourselves.
Next time Fedal play, even if its next week in Miami, Nadal starts favourite
Nadal will always be favourite against Federer in outdoor matches. Indoors its a whole different story.

BroTree123
03-20-2012, 03:55 AM
Fed did celebrate really hard though like in his early 2005 days, after he won that grueling point. Might be a turning point on hardcourts (outside of slams), but on the entire rivalry...? Doubt it.

fast_clay
03-20-2012, 03:58 AM
one thing i have noticed is that nadal looks older than federer

BroTree123
03-20-2012, 04:03 AM
Nole grabbed his nuts one* too many times in front of Nadal's mum, putting more pressure and embarrassment toward Nadal :shrug:

Sharpshooter
03-20-2012, 08:38 AM
No. For starters, Roger has a winning record on HC vs Nadal anyway. So this result just reinforced the fact Roger is the better player between the two off clay. That was an awesome fighting point from Roger, and his reaction when he won it showed just how badly he wanted to win. But this match holds little importance when it comes to other matches in different situations, on different surfaces. This rivalry is 100% about match-ups.

Oh really? Can you please tell me what the slam record on HC is, you know the tournaments that really matter not the warm ups?

Also would you be so kind to explain how Roger is the better player off clay when he hasn't made a slam final off clay since the 2010 AO yet Rafa has been in all of the slam finals off clay since WIM 2010 apart from the 2011 AO?

Evitman
03-20-2012, 09:10 AM
Oh really? Can you please tell me what the slam record on HC is, you know the tournaments that really matter not the warm ups?

Also would you be so kind to explain how Roger is the better player off clay when he hasn't made a slam final off clay since the 2010 AO yet Rafa has been in all of the slam finals off clay since WIM 2010 apart from the 2011 AO?

Did you start watching tennis since 2010? :facepalm:

BroTree123
03-20-2012, 09:11 AM
Nothing more than a biased tard, but who cares, it's MTF -- we dig that kinda shit.

Foxy
03-20-2012, 09:14 AM
Relax, guys, it was just a normal match played under tougher conditions. The unwritten rule is under bad conditions the chances get more equal. It could have gone either way with a few points here and there. It is not that Nadal didn't break Feds serve twice like his previous losses to him. So the chances were there. Anyway Nadal took some potty break and another 2 in the doubles final so obviously there is more to it than we know. On to Miami...

bokehlicious
03-20-2012, 09:21 AM
Anyway Nadal took some potty break and another 2 in the doubles final so obviously there is more to it than we know. On to Miami...

That's it, Rafa was somehow injured! The "undefeated-when-healthy" streak goes on! Vamos! :rocker2:

LisaKoh
03-20-2012, 09:39 AM
Did Nadal become one of the Infected during IW? That would explain some things.

Damn this virus. Davydenko, Monfils, Nadal, Federer... It got some impressive scalps.

Evitman
03-20-2012, 09:41 AM
If Fed had lost that point, he would have been a turkey right now. This was the second time Fed escaped the infamous turkey status by a convincing victory.

out_grinder
03-20-2012, 11:01 AM
Yeah, true lol at those people thinking Fed has finally figured out how to beat Rafa by being shown what to do by Nole. He would have known what to do by the 3rd time they played, now it's about the 30th time.

The problem is he can't do what is required, not that he doesn't know what is required. It's not like Nadal is known for changing his tactics, is it? This match changes nothing.

Orka_n
03-20-2012, 11:21 AM
Yeah, true lol at those people thinking Fed has finally figured out how to beat Rafa by being shown what to do by Nole. He would have known what to do by the 3rd time they played, now it's about the 30th time.

The problem is he can't do what is required, not that he doesn't know what is required. It's not like Nadal is known for changing his tactics, is it? This match changes nothing.He obviously CAN do what is required, that's why he won this match. He just needs to be at the top of his game, which he can't be all the time.

Anyway no, he didn't learn this from Nole. It just seems to me he's finally started to apply a more steady strategy against Nadal. "Rafa is immune against slices and dropshots, so I'll outpower him or die trying."

out_grinder
03-20-2012, 11:32 AM
It's taken him about 30 matches to realize the way to beat Nadal is to have a great day and hope Nadal has a shit day!? Real smart, this Swiss genius.

Orka_n
03-20-2012, 11:59 AM
It's taken him about 30 matches to realize the way to beat Nadal is to have a great day and hope Nadal has a shit day!? Real smart, this Swiss genius.That's not what I said at all. You fit nicely into the Nadalfan stereotype I see.

dwarf shortage
03-20-2012, 12:18 PM
Sorry, absolutely no significance to that point at 30 all. Once a choker always a choker.

out_grinder
03-20-2012, 12:32 PM
I ain't a Nadal fan at all. I actually hate him, but grudgingly respect the fact that he will always win against far greater talents than himself, using the same unimaginative, brutal approach.

And it actually makes you wonder how talented these players that are more talented than him actually are if they just cannot adapt to it.

Evitman
03-20-2012, 01:07 PM
I doubt Nadal would regret about this point than the point at 4-2, 30-15, final set AO final this year. :D

Sharpshooter
03-20-2012, 02:25 PM
Did you start watching tennis since 2010? :facepalm:

How about you learn the English language before trying to post? He said Federer IS the better HC player and I simply asked how that is possible when for the last 2 years he's only made 1 HC slam final and that was the 2010 AO final. Also, if Federer is the better HC player why did he get beat by Rafa in this year's AO semi?

If you want to say Federer WAS the better HC player than yeah, his record speaks for itself but then again I question whether Fed would've won as many HC slams had he had the level of competition that's around these days and yes I mean a prime Rafa and Djokovic, not the likes of facing guys like Baghdatis and Gonzalez in slam finals or his pidgeons Roddick and Hewitt.

BroTree123
03-20-2012, 03:49 PM
^^
I've heard it all before. Next.