Who runs more? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Who runs more?

Just like heaven
02-26-2012, 08:18 AM
Between Rafa and Djokovic.
Many people seem to think that Djokovic is the offensive player and that Rafa is the one who does all the running, but the statistics (at least some of them) seem to suggest otherwise.

This is from the Wimbledon final, somewhere in the middle of the match. I don't have one for the entire match.

http://i43.tinypic.com/k05a88.png

And this one from the AO is more impressive, because Rafa actually spent more time on court during the entire tournament (not taking the final into account)

http://i39.tinypic.com/ofya9g.jpg

I've looked at the duration of their matches and it's

Nadal - 993 minutes - 13.83 miles
Djokovic - 898 minutes - 15.79 miles

Does anyone have statistics from other tournaments/matches?

LisaKoh
02-26-2012, 09:27 AM
Well maybe that's why Djokovic is winning more, he's better at defense than Nadal and he is outlasting him on the baseline. With these slow courts, the more defensive player wins.

To be fair, the AO stat is skewed. Nadal played Berdych and Federer who are offensive players whereas Djokovic played Murray, Ferrer and Hewitt.

Sharpshooter
02-26-2012, 10:07 AM
Well maybe that's why Djokovic is winning more, he's better at defense than Nadal and he is outlasting him on the baseline. With these slow courts, the more defensive player wins.

To be fair, the AO stat is skewed. Nadal played Berdych and Federer who are offensive players whereas Djokovic played Murray, Ferrer and Hewitt.

Just like Roger's slam count is skewed because he won them in a weak era where there was no one to challenge him except a very young Nadal on clay.

Just like heaven
02-26-2012, 10:54 AM
Well maybe that's why Djokovic is winning more, he's better at defense than Nadal and he is outlasting him on the baseline. With these slow courts, the more defensive player wins.


He does outlast him from the baseline.

My point is that those who like to portray Rafa as a physical freak, who runs more than everyone else and who never gets tired are wrong. There are players who run just as much or even more than him and he does get tired (quite often lately) even though his body language might not show it.

From Federer's pc after the French Open final:
I almost saved myself, but I'm very competitive, and I thought he was getting tired, you know, throughout the third set and also in the fourth. It was unfortunate I couldn't take my chances early on in the fourth.

http://www.ubitennis.com/sport/tennis/2011/06/05/518950-roger_federer_2011.shtml

Rafa's pc after the US Open final:
Q. At any time was fatigue a factor in the match today?
RAFAEL NADAL: At the fourth. But, it was a tough match. Physical, mental, everything was, yeah, I think it was a quality match. Congratulations for him. He did great.

http://2011.usopen.org/en_US/news/interviews/2011-09-12/201109131315878149368.html

In Miami
Q. Which was the harder match, last week or this?
RAFAEL NADAL: Physically this, for sure. I was very tired at the end.

http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=70437

Alex999
02-26-2012, 10:59 AM
It doesn't really matter who runs more. The reason that Djokovic is the best player in the world is that he has a very good balance when it comes to defense/offense. Nadal is more defensive. Nadal simply tries to tire his opponents to win a point. It just the way he is. It still works... but not against Djokovic.

Alex999
02-26-2012, 11:03 AM
Just like Roger's slam count is skewed because he won them in a weak era where there was no one to challenge him except a very young Nadal on clay.
agree with you 100%. now watch Fed fans jump all over your post, lol....

green25814
02-26-2012, 11:16 AM
It would be interesting to see these stats on a Rafole match before the special diet.

Shirogane
02-26-2012, 11:35 AM
Murray, Ferrer and Hewitt.Djokovic runs more than he used to, but this.

theKSHE
02-26-2012, 11:50 AM
Just like Roger's slam count is skewed because he won them in a weak era where there was no one to challenge him except a very young Nadal on clay.

I find this interesting. What does Federer slam count relate to "Who runs more?" I can smell jelly organisms all over the place.

BauerAlmeida
02-26-2012, 02:46 PM
agree with you 100%. now watch Fed fans jump all over your post, lol....

He had to face the best claycourter ever (or 2nd best) if not he would have won Roland Garros four times (or even five maybe) and would now have 20+ slams.

Snowwy
02-26-2012, 02:51 PM
He had to face the best claycourter ever (or 2nd best) if not he would have won Roland Garros four times (or even five maybe) and would now have 20+ slams.

So if he were lucky enough to have played in a weak era, he'd have gotten 20 slams?

Pirata.
02-26-2012, 03:00 PM
Just like Roger's slam count is skewed because he won them in a weak era where there was no one to challenge him except a very young Nadal on clay.

What does this have to do with the current topic?

Sham Kay
02-26-2012, 03:01 PM
Add an 'i' between the u and the n in "runs", and add 'the game' between "runs" and "more", and you have a more relevant thread title.

Pirata.
02-26-2012, 03:03 PM
^^ :lol:

ballbasher101
02-26-2012, 03:09 PM
You can't just look at one or 2 events, you have to look at a lot of matches to come to a meaningful conclusion. If you look at matches throughout their career I think you will find that Nadal runs more and hits less winners. Who in their right mind would say Nadal is an attacking player :confused:. The Djoker is not as attacking as he used to be but he is more attacking than Nadal. Even Murray is more attacking than Nadal.
Nadal does have a good offensive shot but he does not take the initiative most of the time.

Just like heaven
02-26-2012, 03:28 PM
You can't just look at one or 2 events, you have to look at a lot of matches to come to a meaningful conclusion. If you look at matches throughout their career I think you will find that Nadal runs more and hits less winners. Who in their right mind would say Nadal is an attacking player :confused:. The Djoker is not as attacking as he used to be but he is more attacking than Nadal. Even Murray is more attacking than Nadal.
Nadal does have a good offensive shot but he does not take the initiative most of the time.

I was talking about the last year or so, since Djokovic started to dominate.
I agree that many times Rafa is very defensive but that's usually when he lacks confidence. Many times he ends up losing because of this. Still, at the AO he spent almost 100 minutes more on court compared to Djokovic and he ran less.
Maybe he ran more than him at the US Open but in the fourth set of the final he was already too tired.
If you have other statistics, please post them.

ballbasher101
02-26-2012, 03:47 PM
I was talking about the last year or so, since Djokovic started to dominate.
I agree that many times Rafa is very defensive but that's usually when he lacks confidence. Many times he ends up losing because of this. Still, at the AO he spent almost 100 minutes more on court compared to Djokovic and he ran less.
Maybe he ran more than him at the US Open but in the fourth set of the final he was already too tired.
If you have other statistics, please post them.


As people have stated, the Djoker played a lot of retrievers prior to the final hence the points were longer thus he had to run more.

Just like heaven
02-26-2012, 04:27 PM
As people have stated, the Djoker played a lot of retrievers prior to the final hence the points were longer thus he had to run more.

The points were long because that's also the way he likes to play.

Naudio Spanlatine
02-26-2012, 04:35 PM
Very interesting topic, both player are fantastic runners, as a super fan of rafa and a fan of nole, i think offensively nole is better but defensively i think rafa is better. In the end, these two players are in the top 3 for a reason, they both can challenge Federer very well when defending on each point. So anyways again, great topic.:yeah:

ballbasher101
02-26-2012, 04:37 PM
The points were long because that's also the way he likes to play.


The court was slow thus hitting winners against good defenders is not all that easy. If he had faced players like Tonga and Berdych then the points would have been shorter thus he would have run less. Tsonga and Berdych do not defend as well as Ferrer, Hewitt and Murray.

Naudio Spanlatine
02-26-2012, 04:39 PM
The court was slow thus hitting winners against good defenders is not all that easy. If he had faced players like Tonga and Berdych then the points would have been shorter thus he he would have run less. Tsonga and Berdych do not defend as well as Ferrer, Hewitt and Murray.

the reason why they dont defend as well as those three players is because both Tsonga and Berdych and lets bring Delpo and Soderling in the mix, rely on their easy power on their groundies and serve, they dont have to defend so much because their power is just enough to blow players off the court while on the other hand ferrer, hewitt, murray and rafa have to rely on just getting the serve in and playing long points. So its great to have contrasting styles in tennis.

Naudio Spanlatine
02-26-2012, 04:44 PM
And lemme add that Safin and Nole are the two players that are complete in their game, both have power on serve and groundies.and great defense, you can add some other players that have the same abilities as those two, i want to add Fed but he doesnt have the complete package as well as those two players.

Just like heaven
02-26-2012, 04:53 PM
The court was slow thus hitting winners against good defenders is not all that easy. If he had faced players like Tonga and Berdych then the points would have been shorter thus he would have run less. Tsonga and Berdych do not defend as well as Ferrer, Hewitt and Murray.

But the fact that Berdych and Federer are attacking players makes it more difficult for Rafa to defend well.
A player like Hewitt gives him the chance to attack more. Players like Berdych and Tsonga don't.

Anyway, I think in the past year Djokovic has been better than Rafa (both defensively and offensively) and I also think he's been fitter.

ballbasher101
02-26-2012, 04:58 PM
But the fact that Berdych and Federer are attacking players makes it more difficult for Rafa to defend well.
A player like Hewitt gives him the chance to attack more. Players like Berdych and Tsonga don't.

Anyway, I think in the past year Djokovic has been better than Rafa (both defensively and offensively) and I also think he's been fitter.


With Federer and Berdych it is either a winner or an error thus the points are shorter hence less running. With the likes of Ferrer and Hewitt you have to grind them down in almost every rally hence the points last longer resulting in more running.

Naudio Spanlatine
02-26-2012, 05:01 PM
But the fact that Berdych and Federer are attacking players makes it more difficult for Rafa to defend well.
A player like Hewitt gives him the chance to attack more. Players like Berdych and Tsonga don't.

Anyway, I think in the past year Djokovic has been better than Rafa (both defensively and offensively) and I also think he's been fitter.

Yes i agree with all of this. Those two can challenge rafa alot especially years ago. And yes Hewitt was a great all around player, he would trouble fed at times because the guy was a workhorse and he puts too much pressure on you when you are trying to go for the winner, he makes you work even harder.

And yes i agree with Nole being better all around than Rafa, Nole was a completely different type of player, the guy was just a beast the whole year. He really was the most complete player out there, physically, mentally and emotionally. The success he had last year was just incredible. He really deserves his ranking at where he is at now. The guy is a monster.:worship:

Naudio Spanlatine
02-26-2012, 05:02 PM
With Federer and Berdych it is either a winner or an error thus the points are shorter hence less running. With the likes of Ferrer and Hewitt you have to grind them down in almost every rally hence the points last longer resulting in more running.

i agree with this as well. well said.:yeah:

Just like heaven
02-26-2012, 05:04 PM
With Federer and Berdych it is either a winner or an error thus the points are shorter hence less running. With the likes of Ferrer and Hewitt you have to grind them down in almost every rally hence the points last longer resulting in more running.

Do you think Federer beats them by grinding them down? You only do that if you're a grinder yourself.

ballbasher101
02-26-2012, 05:13 PM
Do you think Federer beats them by grinding them down? You only do that if you're a grinder yourself.


Federer is a better attacker than Djokovic. Djokovic is a better attacker than Nadal. When it comes to attacking mindset Federer=8, Djokovic= 6, Nadal= 4. In the past Djokovic's attacking mindset was a 7.5 but not anymore.

mark73
02-26-2012, 06:55 PM
Just like Roger's slam count is skewed because he won them in a weak era where there was no one to challenge him except a very young Nadal on clay.

Just like Nadal's slam count is skewed because he's had no one to challenge him (before last year) then Federer way past his prime.

Alex999
02-26-2012, 07:22 PM
Federer is a better attacker than Djokovic. Djokovic is a better attacker than Nadal. When it comes to attacking mindset Federer=8, Djokovic= 6, Nadal= 4. In the past Djokovic's attacking mindset was a 7.5 but not anymore.
maybe, Djokovic used to be much more aggressive back in 2007 but he has adjusted his game and look at him now. being VERY aggressive does not guarantee a win. you are simply more prone to make UE.

LisaKoh
02-26-2012, 07:51 PM
Do you think Federer beats them by grinding them down? You only do that if you're a grinder yourself.

Federer can grind with the best of them, his matches against Hewitt, Ferrer and Murray are usually won from the baseline.

Everko
04-24-2012, 06:50 PM
Federer is a better attacker than Djokovic. Djokovic is a better attacker than Nadal. When it comes to attacking mindset Federer=8, Djokovic= 6, Nadal= 4. In the past Djokovic's attacking mindset was a 7.5 but not anymore.

Disagree. Nadal is not that far behind Federer in attacking. He attacks almost as much

duong
04-25-2012, 10:42 AM
First I think the stat about running more is mostly related with the duration spent in rallies ... and the duration of the matches is a different stat, as you know players spend more time between the points than inside the points.

Secondly, I've seen several times a rally with a player completely controlling the rally and the other one very much on the defensive, but when they showed the "running stat" the difference between both was quite small

... or sometimes the offensive player had run more ;)

Because running more is different from offensive/defensive imo.

For instance a player who will always play with his forehand even on the backhand side will run a lot ... even if he leads the rally.

That's why I think Nadal's running stats should be higher than Djokovic's on claycourts, because on clay he tries much more to use his very powerful forehand on the backhand side because he has more time to do it, whereas Djokovic is better balanced between the backhand and the forehand.

And actually on clay, Nadal may run more when he can use his forehand on the backhand side and is in control of the rally than when he's on the defense ... because in modern times, offensive shots may give little time to react and then to run but may not be very much crosscourt but rather fast and deep shots.

I would be interested in more extensive stats but here you show two examples, and are they representative ? not sure at all.

munZe konZa
04-25-2012, 11:48 AM
Between Rafa and Djokovic.
Many people seem to think that Djokovic is the offensive player and that Rafa is the one who does all the running, but the statistics (at least some of them) seem to suggest otherwise.

This is from the Wimbledon final, somewhere in the middle of the match. I don't have one for the entire match.

http://i43.tinypic.com/k05a88.png

And this one from the AO is more impressive, because Rafa actually spent more time on court during the entire tournament (not taking the final into account)

http://i39.tinypic.com/ofya9g.jpg

I've looked at the duration of their matches and it's

Nadal - 993 minutes - 13.83 miles
Djokovic - 898 minutes - 15.79 miles

Does anyone have statistics from other tournaments/matches?

The only reason why Nole may run more is because he doesn't have the weaker wing whereas Rafa can be pinned down on the backhand playing defensive but he is not running. On the other hand , Nole can and does play both wings equally so he may run more. With all of that said, Rafa is doing all the defensive running he can handle.

munZe konZa
04-25-2012, 11:53 AM
Federer is a better attacker than Djokovic. Djokovic is a better attacker than Nadal. When it comes to attacking mindset Federer=8, Djokovic= 6, Nadal= 4. In the past Djokovic's attacking mindset was a 7.5 but not anymore.

That's garbage theory, just look at the last 2 us open and especially match points. Federer is the ultimate low risk player and is using the slice the most of any high rank player.

southpawdragon
04-25-2012, 01:07 PM
if Thomas Muster was still around I would say he wins in the running alot dept. :)

Slice Winner
04-25-2012, 01:36 PM
Federer is the ultimate low risk player

AHAHAHAHAHA
:notworthy:

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
04-25-2012, 02:07 PM
noles body looks designed for long distance running

nadal's looks designed for sprints

v-money
04-25-2012, 05:00 PM
Nadal - 993 minutes - 13.83 miles
Djokovic - 898 minutes - 15.79 miles

So despite having longer rallies (running more), Nadal still manages to have longer matches (time on court)? Hmmm....I wonder where the rest of that match time is coming from. ;)

Alex999
04-25-2012, 05:17 PM
But the fact that Berdych and Federer are attacking players makes it more difficult for Rafa to defend well.
A player like Hewitt gives him the chance to attack more. Players like Berdych and Tsonga don't.

Anyway, I think in the past year Djokovic has been better than Rafa (both defensively and offensively) and I also think he's been fitter.
fair post. However I really think that top 3 guys are still so close. they can beat each other on any given day. there is a really small margin separating them. yes, both Djokovic and Nadal are, how do I say this .... 'geniuses when it comes to defense' and that's why they are #1 and #2 in the world ... they simply move like they are crazy ... amazing stuff. On the other hand, Fed is Fed ... still love his game (kinda don't like his mouth sometimes, but he is getting humble lately so I'm happy).

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
04-25-2012, 05:21 PM
So despite having longer rallies (running more), Nadal still manages to have longer matches (time on court)? Hmmm....I wonder where the rest of that match time is coming from. ;)

thats because nadals a time wasting cheating douchbag who fakes injuries to prolong matches and put opponents off

nole is no saint- but he is nowhere near as bad as rafa- also- as nole became world number 1 he has taken the crown well- and has become more federer-esque

with nadal you can only polish a turd so much- its still came out of your ass

Mountaindewslave
04-25-2012, 06:55 PM
Add an 'i' between the u and the n in "runs", and add 'the game' between "runs" and "more", and you have a more relevant thread title.

hahha that is great and a much more appropriate question.

they both actually do a lot of running as any tennis player who wins a lot of matches has to despite dominating opposition. I mean just to keep up the correct footwork, both Nadal and Djokovic have to practically always be moving

Just like heaven
05-21-2012, 01:06 PM
Okay, the diference is extremely small, but still... :p

Total distance run - Djokovic: 2.36 km (1.46 miles) / Nadal: 2.3 km (1.43 miles)

http://twitter.com/TrudelSteph/status/204554904788930560

dodo
05-21-2012, 01:13 PM
There was a 2012 season distance ran graphic in the match today.
I think it was Djokovic 70km, Nadal 68km.