Raonic: Gap between top 4 and youngsters not big [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Raonic: Gap between top 4 and youngsters not big

romismak
02-20-2012, 09:32 AM
http://tennis.com/articles/templates/news.aspx?articleid=16538&zoneid=25

I am not sure about this statement, basically he said he just can beat them in Tie-breaks, but really i think the gap is there much bigger in other aspects of game, like movement, return, baseline game, Nole or Rafa are too solid, but for example i can see him take down Rafa in San Jose- or other indoor fast courts

theKSHE
02-20-2012, 09:34 AM
He's absolutely right. He didn't say youngsters are as good as Big 4 overall.

BodyServe
02-20-2012, 09:44 AM
The big 4 would have struggled a lot against him at San Jose. On slower court he doesn't stand a chance except maybe against Federer.
Lets see what he does at IW and Miami where everyone is playing and we will see the gap.

Other youngsters arent in Raonic's league yet.

theKSHE
02-20-2012, 09:47 AM
On slower court he doesn't stand a chance except maybe against Federer.

I thought that Federer was the one eating big servers for breakfast.

romismak
02-20-2012, 09:47 AM
The big 4 would have struggled a lot against him at San Jose. On slower court he doesn't stand a chance except maybe against Federer.
Lets see what he does at IW and Miami where everyone is playing and we will see the gap.

Other youngsters arent in Raonic's league yet.

On slower surfaces the difference in movement, deffense, return and baseline consistency is too big for now, last year IW-Miami was very dissapointing from him, hope this year he can fullfill expectations

BodyServe
02-20-2012, 09:49 AM
On slower court he doesn't stand a chance except maybe against Federer.

I thought that Federer was the one eating big servers for breakfast.

Not anymore, Federer isn't that great on returns anymore and they can get a look on Federer's serve.

On slower surfaces the difference in movement, deffense, return and baseline consistency is too big for now, last year IW-Miami was very dissapointing from him, hope this year he can fullfill expectations

Yeah, i expect some upsets coming from him.

LisaKoh
02-20-2012, 09:52 AM
This guy thinks that the gap between the top 4 and the rest of the field isn't so big? The same guy who put up such an "impressive" display against Nadal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBk1Vx-NduM

Ok then. I guess beating up on Istomin makes you higher than Northern Lights.

theKSHE
02-20-2012, 09:53 AM
Not anymore, Federer isn't that great on returns anymore and they can get a look on Federer's serve.

Not really but that is irrelevant any way.

theKSHE
02-20-2012, 09:55 AM
This guy thinks that the gap between the top 4 and the rest of the field isn't so big? The same guy who put up such an "impressive" display against Nadal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBk1Vx-NduM

Ok then. I guess beating up on Istomin makes you higher than Northern Lights.

Raonic 2010 = Raonic 2012. You lady, are a genius.

ossie
02-20-2012, 09:55 AM
true or false, its the right attitude to have. you need to believe you can compete at the top level and set your goals accordingly. if you are lucky you may one day win a slam.

LisaKoh
02-20-2012, 09:57 AM
Will Raonic 2012 get a set off Nadal or Djokovic? I'd wager that he'll probably get breadsticked next time he comes up against Rafa.

romismak
02-20-2012, 09:59 AM
This guy thinks that the gap between the top 4 and the rest of the field isn't so big? The same guy who put up such an "impressive" display against Nadal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBk1Vx-NduM

Ok then. I guess beating up on Istomin makes you higher than Northern Lights.

Both his matches against Rafa are not telling much, it was on faster outdoor HC what should favour him, but first match in 2010 Rafa was playing great, confident after USO that he won and won also Tokyo, on other side Milos in 2010 was not the same guy like 2011 and not even close to right now 2012. Their 2nd clash in Tokyo - Rafa was playing again great, made F in USO and F in Tokyo too, on other side Milos was after major recovery-hip surgery, he even lost before Tokyo in DC against Weintraub... so he was out of form, was happy that is on the tour.

Alex999
02-20-2012, 12:28 PM
nonsense. the gap between top 4 and the rest of the field is simply huge. I mean, it's good that Milos is positive but he is also being delusional. like it or not, Novak and Rafa would spank Ranonic or Tomic anywhere any day. I simply think that none of these youngsters are that good. too bad, too sad.

what have these youngsters really achieved? nothing really.

LisaKoh
02-20-2012, 12:31 PM
Raonic can't even beat an old infirm Lleyton Hewitt at this point in his career so I don't know why he's talking about the top 4 like they're within striking distance. (Well, they're within striking distance but not his)

Mystique
02-20-2012, 12:33 PM
true or false, its the right attitude to have. you need to believe you can compete at the top level and set your goals accordingly. if you are lucky you may one day win a slam.

May be the first and last time I agree with you

Certinfy
02-20-2012, 12:36 PM
Given in Grand Slams he'll have to win 3/4 (3/5 at the US Open) tiebreaks I still think it's a ask that's far too big. I mean the top 4 are mentally beasts compared to most of the rest and all 4 are no where near bad tie-break players. But then saying that it's not like Raonic isn't capable of swinging and getting a break every now and then but that would be his only hope, no way would he be able to win 3 tiebreaks in a Grand Slam. In 3 set matches though well then he definitely can for sure.

LawrenceOfTennis
02-20-2012, 12:39 PM
Among the youngsters, Tomic is the only one capable of beating a top 4 player this year.

Certinfy
02-20-2012, 12:42 PM
Among the youngsters, Tomic is the only one capable of beating a top 4 player this year.

You serious? I think Raonic has the biggest chance and that it's not even close.

BroTree123
02-20-2012, 12:44 PM
Losing to Hewitt is part of the learning curve. No one is born perfect.

A_Skywalker
02-20-2012, 01:11 PM
Among the youngsters, Tomic is the only one capable of beating a top 4 player this year.

Yeah... right

Time Violation
02-20-2012, 01:44 PM
Great to be positive. :) However, it's a matter of whether he can back that up on court or no. Delpo similarly said he can play better than Nole, and then he didn't win a set off Federer in their last two matches.

Alex999
02-20-2012, 01:52 PM
Among the youngsters, Tomic is the only one capable of beating a top 4 player this year.
lol, neither Tomic nor Raonic will beat Novak or Nadal any time soon. it simply ain't happening.

LawrenceOfTennis
02-20-2012, 01:53 PM
You serious? I think Raonic has the biggest chance and that it's not even close.

I am. Look, obviously Raonic has huge serve and he can control most of his matches with them but his groundstrokes are not good enough to match the best.
Tomic has top 10 groundstrokes in my opinion (although most of the people disagree with this statement) and he has a touch and tennis IQ what you cannot teach and what Raonic doesn't have. Tomic's serve is big enough, needs to be a bit more consistent though. Raonis is faster than him at this point but it is just matter of time when Tomic is going to be faster.
Tomic troubled top 4 except Murray, but I bet he would trouble Murray a lot in a best of 5 match. I'm not his fan, I just think he is better than Raonic.

Sophocles
02-20-2012, 01:54 PM
I am. Look, obviously Raonis has huge serve and he can control most of his matches with them but his groundstrokes are not good enough to match the best.
Tomic has top 10 groundstrokes in my opinion (although most of the people disagree with this statement) and he has a touch and tennis IQ what you cannot teach and what Raonis doesn't have. Tomic's serve is big enough, needs to be a bit more consistent though. Raonis is faster than him at this point but it is just matter of time when Tomic is going to be faster.
Tomis troubled top 4 except Murray, but I bet he would trouble Murray a lot in a best of 5 match. I'm not his fan, I just think he is better than Raonic.

I agree, actually. Tomic has already had competitive best-of-5 matches against Djoker & Fed & on grass especially I think he could take one of the big 4 down.

sexybeast
02-20-2012, 02:20 PM
lol, neither Tomic nor Raonic will beat Novak or Nadal any time soon. it simply ain't happening.

Tomic wasnt far from pushing Djokovic to that 5th set in Wimbledon. I can see Raonic or Tomic beat these players in some fast court, like the first week in Wimbledon/Queens.

Voo de Mar
02-20-2012, 02:49 PM
In my opinion Raonic with his current efficient game-syle is going to lose on regular basis 4-6 4-6 or 6-7 3-6 etc. to Nadal, Djokovic and Murray everywhere; 6-7 6-7 or 6-7 7-6 3-6 etc. to Federer. The question appears: is he able to raise his tennis on return games when he needs it? If yes, he will be able to win against them for example 4-6 7-6 6-3 being a break down in the 2nd set. Raonic is a machine of winning service games but retrieving skills of his opponents are far inferior in comparison to the guys I mentioned above.

bassoon
02-20-2012, 02:52 PM
Will Raonic 2012 get a set off Nadal or Djokovic? I'd wager that he'll probably get breadsticked next time he comes up against Rafa.

I doubt he'll get breadsticked. They played in 2010, months before his Australian Open run, and Nadal won 6-4, 6-4. Same tournament last year - 6-3, 7-5. With the improvements Milos has made to his return game, why would the scoreline regress like that?

Alex999
02-20-2012, 02:53 PM
Tomic wasnt far from pushing Djokovic to that 5th set in Wimbledon. I can see Raonic or Tomic beat these players in some fast court, like the first week in Wimbledon/Queens.
Novak has always had this tendency to lose his focus for a set etc. sure Tomic took a set from him at W but who really cares? I do believe that Tomic is the most talented of all youngsters but he has a long way to go.

MIMIC
02-20-2012, 04:54 PM
The gap is gargantuan.

nole_no1
02-20-2012, 04:56 PM
I think he already thinks he's gonna be the next GOAT... poor guy :lol:

Sham Kay
02-20-2012, 06:10 PM
I think he already thinks he's gonna be the next GOAT... poor guy :lol:

He'd better be thinking that way. Best if not ONLY mentality he should be having right now.

Good attitude, but first he'll have to prove he can consistently beat the rest of the top 10 before being anywhere near top 4. Same with the rest of the younger generation blokes.

Aenea
02-20-2012, 07:20 PM
nonsense. the gap between top 4 and the rest of the field is simply huge. I mean, it's good that Milos is positive but he is also being delusional. like it or not, Novak and Rafa would spank Ranonic or Tomic anywhere any day. I simply think that none of these youngsters are that good. too bad, too sad.

what have these youngsters really achieved? nothing really.

I agree.

I am stunned how players who have only won a couple of measly ATP titles have the confidence to say they are nor far behind the ones who have won a ton of Masters shields and GS. I like people being positive and self believers but in this case Raonic is just delusional. What has he ever achieved? Whom has he beaten? Istomin? Yeah, right it is almost like beating Rafa, Nole or Fed in a GS final. Almost... not.

And relying just on pushing a TB :rolleyes: never liked those kind of players.

Snowwy
02-20-2012, 07:50 PM
true or false, its the right attitude to have. you need to believe you can compete at the top level and set your goals accordingly. if you are lucky you may one day win a slam.

Exactly this.

Alex999
02-20-2012, 07:59 PM
I agree.

I am stunned how players who have only won a couple of measly ATP titles have the confidence to say they are nor far behind the ones who have won a ton of Masters shields and GS. I like people being positive and self believers but in this case Raonic is just delusional. What has he ever achieved? Whom has he beaten? Istomin? Yeah, right it is almost like beating Rafa, Nole or Fed in a GS final. Almost... not.

And relying just on pushing a TB :rolleyes: never liked those kind of players.
yup. I really believe that these youngsters should speak with their rackets first. I mean too many tennis players simply have a big mouth. you know, talk when you actually win some big tournaments.

as much as I like Raonic, he shouldn't be even mentioned in the same sentence with Nole, Rafa and Rog. He'd better work on his fitness and try to simply improve his game.

Miss Molly
02-20-2012, 08:32 PM
He's definitely got the right attitude but we haven't seen him play against anyone in the top 10 outside of Tipsy, correct? He did well against Roddick last year but he's hardly in his prime. We'll see how it goes but he does have a real, quiet confidence in his game that I love to see, hardly ever panics and that's going to help him.

There's nothing wrong with what he said. He said they're close, not that they'll beat the top 4. He's right, if he can hold serve and get them in a breaker, anything can happen but he also said he doesn't know if it can be done consistently.

stewietennis
02-20-2012, 08:46 PM
There is a noticeable gap between Top Four vs The Rest Of The Top 20.

Raonic and Tomic are still a couple of years away from seriously challenging Djokovic and Nadal. The Tomic slicefest against Dolgopolov isn't going to cut it; and Raonic being bounced by Hewitt isn't either.

Ash86
02-20-2012, 09:13 PM
He's definitely got the right attitude but we haven't seen him play against anyone in the top 10 outside of Tipsy, correct?

He's played Nadal twice and lost in straights both times not even managing to get one set to a breaker (Tokyo 2010 and 2011). I agree he's a better player now then he was even 6 months ago but it's not as easy to get to a tie breaker against Nole/Rafa/Andy etc. as it might be against someone like Istomin. Those guys will get some of his serves back and even if it's only one serve every game at a certain point it'll mess with his rhythm knowing that not every ball will be an ace or an unreturnable..

I'm sure he'll beat them at some point - Karlovic beat Roger, Dodig beat Nadal etc. and Raonic is a far better player than either of them - but that doesn't equate to saying the gap is not big. The gap is huge - in terms of experience, titles, skills (movement, FH, BH, ROS, volleys, defence, mental strength - pretty much everything but the serve). Good for him for being positive but the reality is that the top 4 are way above the field for a reason - it's not a fluke - they're just fundamentally more complete and consistent than the rest of the tour.

allpro
02-20-2012, 10:38 PM
relax, folks. milos was just being generous with his fellow upstarts :D

TheBaker
02-20-2012, 11:47 PM
Raonic must not have seen the aus open semis and final after getting bounced by old man rusty. Maybe Milos could beat a top 4 player on his day in favorable conditions but not at a grand slam in best of 5. There's a difference between pulling out the occasional upset and consistently making semis and finals in every tournament and being able to win tough matches when you aren't playing well. The gap is much bigger than he thinks.

Voo de Mar
02-21-2012, 12:11 AM
He will back on Earth after first encounters with Djokovic, Murray and Federer.

Thunderfish8
02-21-2012, 12:25 AM
RAONIC!!! WHAT A GENIUS! This must explain why the youngsters have won once out of 99999 matches in the past year (although Donald Young over Murray in Indian Wells shouldn't really count cuz Murray was still crying over his Aussie Open loss) against top 4 players.

I would respect Raonic and Tomic's statements about the top four not being that threatening if one of them could win a fucking match against the top 4.

LisaKoh
02-21-2012, 01:38 AM
Does the Kooyong result with Tomic beating Djokovic count? But then it wasn't Djoker 2.0 back then...

Voo de Mar
02-21-2012, 01:42 AM
Exhibition matches rather don't count.

LisaKoh
02-21-2012, 01:50 AM
Exhibition matches rather don't count.

Ok, got it. :)

MuzzahLovah
02-21-2012, 06:20 AM
Maybe he could upset Nadal on a fast indoor court, but Murray and Djokovic are the best returners in the game, and Federer's block/slice returns against big servers are pretty damn effective usually. Raonic losing to Hewitt, a great returner, but from a different era- yeah, I'm not sure the others have something to worry about.

romismak
02-21-2012, 11:25 AM
Maybe he could upset Nadal on a fast indoor court, but Murray and Djokovic are the best returners in the game, and Federer's block/slice returns against big servers are pretty damn effective usually. Raonic losing to Hewitt, a great returner, but from a different era- yeah, I'm not sure the others have something to worry about.

Right now agree with you, current Raonic can beat probably only Rafa from big 4 on fast indoor, or grass-1st week Wimby or Queens/Halle, olympics. But Nole-Andy are just too good returners, it is impossible even for Milos to hold service games during whole match against those guys, and in rallies of course they are superior to him, Federer how you mentioned is used to sliced-block back big serves like he is doing against A-Rod succesfully their whole careers, and besides that Roger has very good serve by himself, plus game to back-up it of course, but good serving Federer should without problems hold his service games against returners like Milos, Bernard and other youngesters.