Is th REAL big four back? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Is th REAL big four back?

Ibracadabra
02-19-2012, 04:50 AM
With del potro looking somewhat back to his old self is the REAL big four back?

Naudio Spanlatine
02-19-2012, 04:51 AM
um wasnt delpo's highest ranking was #5, same was soderling too.:scratch:

Nole Rules
02-19-2012, 04:53 AM
No this shit again.:facepalm:

n8
02-19-2012, 04:54 AM
um wasnt delpo's highest ranking was #5, same was soderling too.:scratch:

Del Potro and Soderling have both ranked number four. Del Potro was seeded 4th for the 2010 Australian Open (ahead of Murray) and Soderling was seeded 4th for the 2011 Australian Open (also ahead of Murray).

Mystique
02-19-2012, 04:54 AM
there is no Big 4. There isnt even a Big 3 these days. :o

Nole Rules
02-19-2012, 04:55 AM
um wasnt delpo's highest ranking was #5, same was soderling too.:scratch:

No. His highest ranking was #4. He was the number #4 for some weeks at the start of 2010 IIRC.

Naudio Spanlatine
02-19-2012, 04:56 AM
Del Potro and Soderling have both ranked number four. Del Potro was seeded 4th for the 2010 Australian Open (ahead of Murray) and Soderling was seeded 4th for the 2011 Australian Open (also ahead of Murray).

thanks for the info, im slow at these years lately:facepalm: :)

Ibracadabra
02-19-2012, 05:03 AM
As stated, del potro reached number four in the world before his wrist injury took a year from him. Without the injury it's safe to say murray would easily be knocked out of the top 4.

Naudio Spanlatine
02-19-2012, 05:05 AM
No. His highest ranking was #4. He was the number #4 for some weeks at the start of 2010 IIRC.

thanks, i totally forgot like i just told another person, my mind is gone:o

MuzzahLovah
02-19-2012, 05:17 AM
:haha:

Pirata.
02-19-2012, 07:41 AM
I love Juan Martin but he really has no business being included in this big four over Murray. One fluke (yes, it was :facepalm:) slam win over Federer does not negate the fact that Murray has had a lot better career results. Results are what makes a player, not what-ifs and what-mights. Delpo can claim a slam, but he still has no Masters title and has yet to follow up his slam final with another one. Murray may not have a slam, but he has a ton of other results that speak to his ranking.

Nole Rules
02-19-2012, 07:54 AM
I love Juan Martin but he really has no business being included in this big four over Murray. One fluke (yes, it was :facepalm:) slam win over Federer does not negate the fact that Murray has had a lot better career results. Results are what makes a player, not what-ifs and what-mights. Delpo can claim a slam, but he still has no Masters title and has yet to follow up his slam final with another one. Murray may not have a slam, but he has a ton of other results that speak to his ranking.

Only bitter Fedtards would say Delpo's slam win was a fluke. Fed outplayed by Delpo in that final. Get over it already.

DemiCrayanhan
02-19-2012, 08:03 AM
could someone kindly tell me who this big four is? all i've seen for over a year now is a big 1. who cares if you're 4 or 104? chances are you're not winning anything.

Pirata.
02-19-2012, 08:14 AM
Only bitter Fedtards would say Delpo's slam win was a fluke. Fed outplayed by Delpo in that final. Get over it already.

Been over it, but it's the truth. Don't get so uptight :baby:

niksonion
02-19-2012, 08:58 AM
Its amazing how the player ( DelPo ) who is considered as a member of "BIG 4" has a horribe head-to-head against other members or pretenders for "BIG 4":against Nole 1-4 (only win is retirement,but win is a win),against Roger 2-8 ( Yes, I know,there is a win in a grandslam final in it, but also some 3 or 4 big defeats in grandslams),against Andy 1-5 ( Oh, Andy doesnt have a slam , no?),against Rafa 3-7 ( yes, there is that bombing lesson of US open 2009,I know)... So his cumulative head-to-head against them is : 7-24 ... These are facts...Head-to-Heads are just one component of course,but DelPo didnt win any Mastersseries tournament,he was in only 1 other grandslam semi apart from uS open win..I like the man very much,especially as a person,but I dont think so.

GSMnadal
02-19-2012, 09:01 AM
Only bitter Fedtards would say Delpo's slam win was a fluke. Fed outplayed by Delpo in that final. Get over it already.

That he outplayed him, says nothing over whether it was a fluke or not. A fluke just means it was a one time thing, and never happened again after that.

And so far it looks to be like that (although with the whole wrist injury, I don't think it's very fair to say that), but I think Dpot will return and will prove it wasn't a fluke.

samanosuke
02-19-2012, 09:09 AM
:haha:

Slams count
Delpo 1
Murray 0

:haha:

MuzzahLovah
02-19-2012, 09:17 AM
Slams count
Delpo 1
Murray 0

:haha:

I'm glad you make yourself laugh. Roddick also has 1 slam- does that make him part of the real top 4 today?

Nole Rules
02-19-2012, 11:28 AM
That he outplayed him, says nothing over whether it was a fluke or not. A fluke just means it was a one time thing, and never happened again after that.

And so far it looks to be like that (although with the whole wrist injury, I don't think it's very fair to say that), but I think Dpot will return and will prove it wasn't a fluke.

Come on mate, How many players did beat TWO 10+ GS champs in SF/F to win their first slam title? Did you consider Nole's 1st slam win a fluke when he disappeared after that? Does every 1st slam title considered a fluke (for players who won just one GS in their careers)?

rocketassist
02-19-2012, 11:38 AM
Clown thread, clown thread starter. Dump this in a skip.

Orka_n
02-19-2012, 11:49 AM
I'm glad you make yourself laugh. Roddick also has 1 slam- does that make him part of the real top 4 today?No, but Roddick is a former #1 and also close to retirement unlike Delpo so the comparison is irrelevant.

This big 4 crap is nonsense to begin with. I do think that Murray has had a better career than Del Potro so far despite Delpo's slam. Who will achieve more from this point on, I can't say.

nole_no1
02-19-2012, 11:51 AM
There is only one big Nole

Sham Kay
02-19-2012, 12:35 PM
:haha:
Slams count
Delpo 1
Murray 0

:haha:

Slams count
Hewitt 2
Delpo 1
Murray 0

:haha:

Give him a few months. Hewitt will take his rightful place in the top 4.

Hewitt =Legend
02-19-2012, 12:49 PM
If Hewitt didn't have 2 metal hips right now and wasn't missing a toe, he'd be top 4 with a bullet.

Ajde.

Alex999
02-19-2012, 01:18 PM
If Hewitt didn't have 2 metal hips right now and wasn't missing a toe, he'd be top 4 with a bullet.

Ajde.
I love both DP and Murray...but there are only 3 big players and we all know who they are.

leng jai
02-19-2012, 01:25 PM
Memphis Titles

Hass 3
Roddick 3
Murray 0
Del Potro 0

:haha:

Ajde.

BauerAlmeida
02-19-2012, 01:26 PM
Its amazing how the player ( DelPo ) who is considered as a member of "BIG 4" has a horribe head-to-head against other members or pretenders for "BIG 4":against Nole 1-4 (only win is retirement,but win is a win),against Roger 2-8 ( Yes, I know,there is a win in a grandslam final in it, but also some 3 or 4 big defeats in grandslams),against Andy 1-5 ( Oh, Andy doesnt have a slam , no?),against Rafa 3-7 ( yes, there is that bombing lesson of US open 2009,I know)... So his cumulative head-to-head against them is : 7-24 ... These are facts...Head-to-Heads are just one component of course,but DelPo didnt win any Mastersseries tournament,he was in only 1 other grandslam semi apart from uS open win..I like the man very much,especially as a person,but I dont think so.

Did you consider the fact that he is younger than all the other players and the first matches they played they were already TOP 3 and Delpo wasn't even TOP 10??

I can't believe people consider the US 2009 a fluke. He reached the Masters Cup final two months later, something Murray never did, by the way (like winning a GS). And then he got injured. How is he suppose to reach another GS final being injured?? Does people really think he wouldn't have reach another final in 2010 or 2011 if he had stayed healthy??

And before that he was really close at Roland Garros too.

rinnegan
02-19-2012, 01:35 PM
Only bitter Fedtards would say Delpo's slam win was a fluke. Fed outplayed by Delpo in that final. Get over it already.

Agreed.

BigJohn
02-19-2012, 01:43 PM
I love Juan Martin but he really has no business being included in this big four over Murray. One fluke (yes, it was :facepalm:) slam win over Federer does not negate the fact that Murray has had a lot better career results. Results are what makes a player, not what-ifs and what-mights. Delpo can claim a slam, but he still has no Masters title and has yet to follow up his slam final with another one. Murray may not have a slam, but he has a ton of other results that speak to his ranking.

It's OK. For years, Nadal was widely considered (by some) to be the real #1 even if he was only getting results on clay. Some people even call him the true GOAT today. You have to read beyond these statements: are they caused by substance abuse? or lack of substance abuse? limited amount of working neurons? poor quality of the working neurons? was the poster was dropped many times as a baby? lead in the pipes? early stages of dementia?

There is only one big Nole

Fully agree. All hail the Faking and Cheating Attention Whore.

BigJohn
02-19-2012, 01:46 PM
Only bitter Fedtards would say Delpo's slam win was a fluke. Fed outplayed by Delpo in that final. Get over it already.

Hum... Also people who know what fluke means:

An odd occurrence that happens and is unlikely to be repeated.

So far it is a fluke. Get educated already.

MuzzahLovah
02-19-2012, 03:16 PM
Rotterdam final.
:spit: :haha:

heya
02-19-2012, 03:25 PM
LOL looky here, fed ballet tutu outsprinted the guy that fed declared as the soon-to-be top ranked player in 2009.

decrepitude
02-19-2012, 04:07 PM
Hopefully Rotterdam final has put this thread to bed - taking into account Delpo's record against Muzza too.

decrepitude
02-19-2012, 04:12 PM
Oh - and in reply to those pointing out that Delpo has been #4 - yes, for all of two weeks. Murray was #2 for three weeks - but that doesn't make him one of the top 2, does it?

EddieNero
02-19-2012, 04:16 PM
Only bitter Fedtards would say Delpo's slam win was a fluke. Fed outplayed by Delpo in that final. Get over it already.

You confused 2009 semi with the final, that was Federer who outplayed Djokovic not Del Potro who did this to Roger.

Singularity
02-19-2012, 04:22 PM
Del Potro has made 2 GS semis. Murray has made 9.

GSMnadal
02-19-2012, 04:29 PM
Del Potro has made 2 GS semis. Murray has made 9.

Conversion of SF's into a Final:

JMDP: 50%
AM: 33%

% of Sets won in a slam final:

JMDP: 60%
AM: 0%

Conversion of Finals into a Slam title:

JMDP: 100%
AM: 0%

:bounce: :cool:

Sham Kay
02-19-2012, 05:06 PM
^ Stats are overrated. What really matters is.. prize money.. and H2H's against the GOAT.. and Asian titles.

v-money
02-19-2012, 05:13 PM
there is no Big 4. There isnt even a Big 3 these days. :o

Obo.

Just a big 1. Ajde!

misst89
02-19-2012, 05:23 PM
Even if you have luck, you can't rally back 2 sets down to take a title in 5 sets. Just as Djokovic had the talent to beat Fed in 5, Del potro outplayed Fed and deserved that title. Anyway obviously Djokovic leads the field by far, and we'll see if the other players (Ferrer, Tsonga, berdych, delpo possibly) can up the challenge.

Singularity
02-19-2012, 05:52 PM
Conversion of SF's into a Final:

JMDP: 50%
AM: 33%

% of Sets won in a slam final:

JMDP: 60%
AM: 0%

Conversion of Finals into a Slam title:

JMDP: 100%
AM: 0%

:bounce: :cool:
Conversion of SF's into a Final:

JMDP: 50%
Gaudio: 100%

% of Sets won in a slam final:

JMDP: 60%
Gaudio: 60%

Conversion of Finals into a Slam title:

JMDP: 100%
Gaudio: 100%

We have a new winner.

Sham Kay
02-19-2012, 06:12 PM
Tomas Johansson went and ruined his chance to destroy DelPo and Gaudio in the race to the big 4 by making a Wimbledon semi. Bet he regrets that worthless achievement to this day.

Nole Rules
02-19-2012, 06:18 PM
Tomas Johansson went and ruined his chance to destroy DelPo and Gaudio in the race to the big 4 by making a Wimbledon semi. Bet he regrets that worthless achievement to this day.

:haha:

JediFed
02-19-2012, 06:18 PM
Memphis Titles

Hass 3
Roddick 3
Murray 0
Del Potro 0



Ajde.


Champion post. :worship:

FedvsNole
02-19-2012, 06:26 PM
delpo loss to federer says nothing about the other 3. Delpo doesn't like the way federer plays him. Delpo likes the games of nole and nadal much better and will push them and may even win if they meet at the us open or at indian well/miami... you'll see.

out_grinder
02-19-2012, 06:30 PM
What's the deal with DelPo now?

Is every loss he takes STILL with an asterisk over it because of a wrist injury?

FedvsNole
02-19-2012, 06:32 PM
As well as delpo played in 2009, he still should not have won the us open where he played out o his mind against federer who didn't go up 2 sets to 0 as he should have. Anyways, federer plays delpo differnt now than just trying to out hit him. He plays more variety, brings him to net, goes to net himself, and is always mixing it up. I believe delpo is back in fact his movment has improved from what it used to be. You'll see when he beats a top 4 player in the next events at dubai, indian wells, miami.

mooncreek
02-19-2012, 06:34 PM
The "real Big Four" isn't back. del Potro wasn't even much of a challenge for Federer. Once he finally beats one of these guys, then maybe the talk can start - and even then there's not much to say given his horrible head-to-head against Federer, Djokovic and Murray. Beating up on Berdych and Soderling (which delPo did last year) is not the same thing.

mooncreek
02-19-2012, 06:38 PM
We saw a player who'd previously been ranked in the Top 4 seriously challenge Federer this weekend. Sorry to say it wasn't del Potro.

Johnny Groove
02-19-2012, 06:59 PM
It is a big 1, 2 very large ones, and a couple of medium sized ones.

BauerAlmeida
02-19-2012, 08:00 PM
I think he'll have better chances against Murray or Nadal than against Federer or Djokovic (although he may have a chance against Nole on clay).

MuzzahLovah
02-19-2012, 08:14 PM
delpo loss to federer says nothing about the other 3. Delpo doesn't like the way federer plays him. Delpo likes the games of nole and nadal much better and will push them and may even win if they meet at the us open or at indian well/miami... you'll see.

Del Po doesn't like variety. Coincidentally his H2H worst record percentage-wise just happens to be against Murray.

Ibracadabra
02-19-2012, 09:04 PM
Still top 4. The next 4 tournaments will illustrate this point.

rocketassist
02-19-2012, 09:35 PM
Still top 4. The next 4 tournaments will illustrate this point.

Haha no he isn't top 4.

Certinfy
02-19-2012, 09:41 PM
When 2 guys have won the last 8 slams we might as well just go with the big two.

BigJohn
02-19-2012, 09:48 PM
As far as Del Potro being back (?) in the big four, he is in fact REALLY 4500 points back of the big 4.

ModestyB
02-19-2012, 10:45 PM
Murray is so underrated here, it's ridiculous.

delboy
02-19-2012, 11:32 PM
No. Obviously.

mooncreek
02-20-2012, 06:50 PM
As far as Del Potro being back (?) in the big four, he is in fact REALLY 4500 points back of the big 4.

That really does end the argument. As much as Murray is ragged around there, that is a really big gap between #10 to #4.

BigJohn
02-20-2012, 08:51 PM
That really does end the argument. As much as Murray is ragged around there, that is a really big gap between #10 to #4.

Thank you. I am a voice of reason.

Clydey
02-21-2012, 07:13 AM
As stated, del potro reached number four in the world before his wrist injury took a year from him. Without the injury it's safe to say murray would easily be knocked out of the top 4.

I expect this sort of nonsense from a Murray hater.

Del Potro will never be consistent enough to be in the top 4 for a sustained period.

Alex999
02-21-2012, 07:25 AM
I expect this sort of nonsense from a Murray hater.

Del Potro will never be consistent enough to be in the top 4 for a sustained period.
Clydey, I agree with you. sure DP won a slam but I really believe that Murray is so much more consistent than DP. I really like both players...I hope that Murray will win his first slam this year :). sure a Nole fan here but I like Andy so much.

leng jai
02-21-2012, 10:20 AM
I expect this sort of nonsense from a Murray hater.

Del Potro will never be consistent enough to be in the top 4 for a sustained period.

Your point has merit but at least give Pony a few more injury free years before you say that. He has the mental game to do it but big guys usually never stay at the top for sustained periods.

Ajde.

Sapeod
02-21-2012, 10:08 PM
The real Big 4? They've been the Big 4 for quite a while now. I don't really know what Del Potro has to do with this. He can't even reach slam semi-finals anymore, let alone reach the top 4.

Sapeod
02-21-2012, 10:10 PM
Still top 4. The next 4 tournaments will illustrate this point.
Same old crap.

Vida
02-21-2012, 10:22 PM
until murray wins a slam this "big 4" label just doesnt sound right.

Sapeod
02-21-2012, 10:44 PM
until murray wins a slam this "big 4" label just doesnt sound right.
Clearly it does. How many points is he ahead of the #5? A lot. How many points is he behind Federer? Not a lot. Federer hasn't won a slam since the Australian Open in 2010, so what's your point? I'm guessing Federer doesn't deserve to be in the Big 4 either, right? No, of course he does. We can use past achievements when it comes to Federer because he's won slams, right? Ha, what a load of nonsense. It's insulting to group Federer with those top 2 just because he's won slams in the past, when currently he is doing pretty much the same as Murray.

Vida
02-21-2012, 10:55 PM
Clearly it does. How many points is he ahead of the #5? A lot. How many points is he behind Federer? Not a lot. Federer hasn't won a slam since the Australian Open in 2010, so what's your point? I'm guessing Federer doesn't deserve to be in the Big 4 either, right? No, of course he does. We can use past achievements when it comes to Federer because he's won slams, right? Ha, what a load of nonsense. It's insulting to group Federer with those top 2 just because he's won slams in the past, when currently he is doing pretty much the same as Murray.

feds got 16 slams, some people even call him the GOAT, so of course hes in the "big whatever" class, regardless of the fact he hasnt won any recently. andy doesnt have one. no comparison really.

Sapeod
02-21-2012, 11:14 PM
feds got 16 slams, some people even call him the GOAT, so of course hes in the "big whatever" class, regardless of the fact he hasnt won any recently. andy doesnt have one. no comparison really.
Uh, no. If he hasn't won any slams recently, then he should't be given any special treatment because he has won slams. He's done pretty much the same as Murray in the past year. Murray has done better in slams actually. It's all about slams, right? :lol:

Vida
02-21-2012, 11:17 PM
Uh, no. If he hasn't won any slams recently, then he should't be given any special treatment because he has won slams. He's done pretty much the same as Murray in the past year. Murray has done better in slams actually. It's all about slams, right? :lol:

no its about "big" and you cant be that without slams.

HKz
02-21-2012, 11:25 PM
I love Juan Martin but he really has no business being included in this big four over Murray. One fluke (yes, it was :facepalm:) slam win over Federer does not negate the fact that Murray has had a lot better career results. Results are what makes a player, not what-ifs and what-mights. Delpo can claim a slam, but he still has no Masters title and has yet to follow up his slam final with another one. Murray may not have a slam, but he has a ton of other results that speak to his ranking.

Bit harsh to say, yes things fell in his favor, and yes Del Potro was extremely fortunate with his run and winning the second set. Remember, the incorrect call that was made against Del Potro who waited forever to challenge the call and rattle Federer. Yes, the correct call was eventually made thanks to technology, but one must admit he was quite fortunate.

Either way, his success was not a fluke. Big hitters like him are bound to strike gold here and there. I mean he had beaten Nadal three times in a row and followed up the US Open win with that final in London beating Federer again along the way. Maybe he wouldn't win a slam again, but to say he wouldn't have been just as good if not better of a top 5/4 player as Murray is pretty silly. I mean fluke or not, Murray still isn't able to win a slam despite having all those SF/F opportunities. Murray would have had the same path (Del Potro > Nadal > Federer) at that year's US Open had he beaten Cilic, but he failed. IMO it is extremely unfortunate for Juan Martin and I believe he would have been a consistent number 4. I mean despite the injury, he still nearly made the QFs in Australia.

rocketassist
02-21-2012, 11:57 PM
feds got 16 slams, some people even call him the GOAT, so of course hes in the "big whatever" class, regardless of the fact he hasnt won any recently. andy doesnt have one. no comparison really.

For once, you're on the money

Juan Ma Del Pony
02-22-2012, 12:38 AM
Come on guys, I'm a huge Delpo fan but I think it's a big insult to say that Murray is undeserving of the #4 spot right now. Yes it's unfortunate that Delpo got injured and lost a good 2 years of his career (I say 2011 was a "claw his way back to Top 10" year, which is pretty sad b/c he was already Top 5 at the time of the injury) but Murray was already more consistent than Delpo before the injury at Masters and such and then again after the injury as well. Now if Delpo wins another Slam before Murray wins his first and rises to #5 some time this year, then I think we might be able to say that Delpo is more "deserving" of the "Big 4" title than Murray is. But even that is uncertain, and right now Murray deserves his spot in the Top 4 for sure.