WWW SF Rotterdam: Berdych (2) vs Del Potro (3) [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

WWW SF Rotterdam: Berdych (2) vs Del Potro (3)

Gift Collector
02-17-2012, 01:46 PM
Match to determine the current 5th best ATP player at this point of time in my opinion.

BroTree123
02-17-2012, 01:47 PM
Berdych in 2. del Potro was so bad in his QF match.

LawrenceOfTennis
02-17-2012, 01:48 PM
Berdych is the clear favorite with his good indoors game but I think Juan has a good chance if he serves well.

ossie
02-17-2012, 01:50 PM
delpo even in his current state is a much better mover and will destroy berdych, you heard it here first.

tealeaves
02-17-2012, 01:53 PM
3 sets either way. Hopefully Del Potro

Juan Ma Del Pony
02-17-2012, 02:04 PM
Agree that Berdych is the favorite ATM but Delpo has a great chance to reach an ATP 500 final here. Of the two, I give Berdych the better chance of defeating Feds in the final though.

delpiero7
02-17-2012, 02:10 PM
Heart says Delpo, but got a feeling that Berdych may well take this one.

Delpo didn't really convince me yesterday against lowly Beck, and although he was better today Troicki was a massive contributing factor to the scoreline being as one sided as it was.

Hope for an entertaining match either way.

BroTree123
02-17-2012, 02:11 PM
Don't think it will be as close as some ppl think.

Nole Rules
02-17-2012, 02:12 PM
Delpo in 2 hopefully.

Clay Death
02-17-2012, 02:42 PM
d-pot to run over him in straight sets. that is just my take.

DJ Soup
02-17-2012, 02:56 PM
Delpo likes to play against ballbashers I think

MuzzahLovah
02-17-2012, 03:00 PM
What's their head to head?

I'm just going to go with Berdy, as he's won a tourney recently and Juan hasn't won anything in a long time.

Juan Ma Del Pony
02-17-2012, 03:09 PM
Their H2H is 2-1 in favor of Juan, but their last matches were in 2009 (obviously Juan's best and certainly not Tomas's best). In all 3 of their matches, the winner has won in straight sets. So the winner of the first set tomorrow is certainly poised to win the match, based on their history.

Clay Death
02-17-2012, 03:11 PM
d-pot is too consistent for him off the ground and that is the bottom line.

it will be over quick if d-pot serves huge.

henke007
02-17-2012, 03:28 PM
Hope for a great match, Delpo wins in 3.

gulzhan
02-17-2012, 03:50 PM
I want an option-- no idea!

Nirjhor
02-17-2012, 04:05 PM
Delpo in 3. :)

Johnny Groove
02-17-2012, 04:17 PM
This is a big match for both guys. Not just for points, but for mental state. And then if the winner beats Federer, that's 500 points and a big time MTF hype machine.

HDW
02-17-2012, 04:20 PM
pony in 2

Smiling Buddha
02-17-2012, 04:24 PM
There are at least 6 players better than these guys.

Certinfy
02-17-2012, 04:25 PM
Can't believe these 2 have to play each other while Federer plays Gasquet or Davydenko :mad:

lucyfur
02-17-2012, 04:45 PM
Can't believe these 2 have to play each other while Federer plays Gasquet or Davydenko :mad:

He has to beat Jarko first.:p

MuzzahLovah
02-17-2012, 04:45 PM
Can't believe these 2 have to play each other while Federer plays Gasquet or Davydenko :mad:

Davy will beat Gasquet in 3 hours and then give Fed another walkover. :sad:

romismak
02-17-2012, 04:45 PM
Berdych will win, have no doubt about it, Delpo looked good today but Viktor was terrible, not even 50% FS in, horrible when facing BP, Delpo didn´t looked so impressive in earlier rounds here, Berdych on other side is looking impressive since Paris, played good WTF, good Hopman cup, AO, Montpellier and now here is pretty solid. I think they have similar game, both like to overpower opponents, dictate with big FH, but Berdych has edge in serve and also i think better volleys- is also more coming to net, Delpo is just dictating from baseline and Tomas can change rhytm with rushing net, i really don´t see this Delpo to beat this Berdych in indoor conditions.

samanosuke
02-17-2012, 04:46 PM
hope delpo will keep taking the trash out

Shinoj
02-17-2012, 04:56 PM
Battle Royale.

MaxPower
02-17-2012, 05:02 PM
Fed is a nice lad but this should've been the final. It's going to be interesting. Both players hard to break but also have enough offensive power to go on streaks. I'd say first set gets really close, 7-6 then in the second one runs away with it 6-2. Hopefully Berdych

rocketassist
02-17-2012, 05:23 PM
If it's a pacey court, Berdych, if it's a slow court, Del Pony.

stanch
02-17-2012, 05:55 PM
Berdych in third set tiebreak.

duong
02-17-2012, 09:48 PM
Match to determine the current 5th best ATP player at this point of time in my opinion.

I think this number 5 player (may even hope better) has been Berdych since after the US Open.

Del Potro will come back later though, I think.

For tomorrow : Berdych in 3.

As for their "natural" H2H yes usually it's rather Del Potro on slow courts, Berdych on quick courts.

adam10
02-17-2012, 11:37 PM
Thomas, you should beat the mug.

LisaKoh
02-18-2012, 12:27 AM
It's an interesting poll question. I think JMDP is the 5th best ATP player right now, in terms of pure ball-striking and his pedigree. But as for who's going to win the SF? Berdych has a 12-1 record on the year after losing a close match to Nadal in Australia and he's looking dangerous.

JMDP has a 3-7 record against Nadal, a 1-4 record against Djokovic and a 2-8 record against Federer.
Berdych as a 2-7 record against Nadal, a 1-8 record against Djokovic and a 4-10 record against Federer.

If Berdych can move Juan around and if he can dictate points, he will win the match. However, if he plays into Juan's strengths and gives him rhythm, he's completely screwed. Best chance he has is to get Juan off-balance.

I really really really want to see this match. It should be epic.

Just found video of an old match. It gets really interesting midway through the second set when Del Potro realizes that he needs to play more aggressively to stay with Berdych. Based on this video from the five minute mark onwards, JMDP has more touch and more creative shot selection than Berdych; he's lobbing, he's volleying, he's doing all kinds of stuff that won't giver Berdych rhythm from the baseline.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXt2wDMWyZk

abraxas21
02-18-2012, 02:37 AM
ponyboy in 2

spielmacher
02-18-2012, 09:18 AM
Tomáš Berdych

henke007
02-18-2012, 09:22 AM
The mental aspect will decide the outcome i think.

swisht4u
02-18-2012, 09:51 AM
DelPo.
Haven't seen him this tournament but he seems motivated, he needs this one.

masterclass
02-18-2012, 09:57 AM
Still a couple of good seats for what might be the best match of the tournament - 2 pm (GMT + 1) start time. Tomorrow's final is sold out.

This match is too close to call. Close to medium-fast conditions probably favor Mr. Berdych slightly, in that he should be able to play his successful attacking game. But if either player is slightly off for whatever reason, it will tip the match to the other. Should be a cracker - 2 pm (GMT + 1) start time.

Respectfully,
masterclass

Chase Visa
02-18-2012, 10:12 AM
Tomas wins, better indoor player than the Pony.

DemiCrayanhan
02-18-2012, 10:18 AM
personally i think tsonga is the deserving no.5 despite the horrendous oz showing. these two are fighting for no.6 here and i'll give the slight edge to berdych at the moment.

damn that right wrist. delpo would have been towering over them all by now.

Ash86
02-18-2012, 10:20 AM
Hope Berdych wins as he'll have a better chance against Roger in the final & I'd rather not see Roger win a 500 having played three 30 yr olds to get to the final. :o Dubai will give us a better idea as to how Tsonga, Berdych & Del Po line up against each other - think Berdych will come out top this year overall though it's hard to call as Del Po's peak on hardcourts is higher but Berdych & Tsonga have been more impressive & consistent in the last 6 months...

masterclass
02-18-2012, 11:23 AM
Hope Berdych wins as he'll have a better chance against Roger in the final & I'd rather not see Roger win a 500 having played three 30 yr olds to get to the final. :o Dubai will give us a better idea as to how Tsonga, Berdych & Del Po line up against each other - think Berdych will come out top this year overall though it's hard to call as Del Po's peak on hardcourts is higher but Berdych & Tsonga have been more impressive & consistent in the last 6 months...

:shrug: That's the state of mens tennis these days. Average age of the top 100 is now almost 28 years.
It's telling when the declining 30 somethings outplay the best of the 19-23 age group.
Facing someone 30 years or older does not automatically mean one has an easier match.

Respectfully,
masterclass

Gillouthe best
02-18-2012, 11:25 AM
Tomas in two tight sets.

BroTree123
02-18-2012, 11:35 AM
I still think Berdych in 2. So far, whenever delPo meets the first decent player in any draw of a tourney, he gets trashed.

DemiCrayanhan
02-18-2012, 11:36 AM
:shrug: That's the state of mens tennis these days. Average age of the top 100 is now almost 28 years.

Are the days of the prodigies over for good? My first tennis memory is a 17 yr old Becker winning Wimby. Goddess Stefi and '88! I was always glued to my tv every time Hingis played. It's been 7 years since we last had a teen win anything worth mentioning. I've got nothing against the, well, more experienced guys finally getting some success. But I sure miss the old days when you started investing in someone's career from the beginning, watching them grow up on the courts, hoping you were in for a treat for many years to come.

But I digress. Today's Berdych's day me thinks.

Ash86
02-18-2012, 11:57 AM
Are the days of the prodigies over for good? My first tennis memory is a 17 yr old Becker winning Wimby. Goddess Stefi and '88! I was always glued to my tv every time Hingis played. It's been 7 years since we last had a teen win anything worth mentioning. .

I do think those days might have gone. The 16/17 year olds look like kids next to the 24 yr old tour players. It's always funny seeing photos of Rafa next to the juniors he's practicing with - some of whom are ranked in the top 10 juniors and these 16, 17 year olds just look tiny physically next to him. Ok not everyone can be like Rafa beating RG champions at 16 and World no. 1s at 18 but why is it that all young players are just not fit enough at that age? Nadal wasn't the only one to have good results while young - Gasquet did, Djokovic did (19/20) etc.

Maybe these kids should work on fitness and conditioning more early on? Tomic looks much more built this year and it'll help him probably. He's the only "youngster" to have done well and even that translates to no titles as yet. Some of the other "young guns" like Dolgo etc. are 23, 24 - hardly young! Hope someone turns up soon as the tour with Raonic, Tomic and Dimitrov may bore me to tears....

Berdych, Gasquet, Nadal, Baghdatis, Murray etc. all played juniors/ITF events around the same time, some were at Petit AS in the same year - and all have achieved great things or become solid tour players. Somehow find it hard to see the current bunch we see having anywhere near that kind of consistency... GO TOMAS!

nalbyfan
02-18-2012, 11:57 AM
Delpony should win even if Birdie is harder than an injured Troicki

Hian-GOAT
02-18-2012, 12:23 PM
DelPo has bagelled Viko, and this cannot be forgiven :o

Go Thomas :armed: For the honour of Mr Troicki :drool:

LisaKoh
02-18-2012, 12:35 PM
Two best forehands on the tour going toe to toe right now.

theKSHE
02-18-2012, 12:37 PM
Two best forehands on the tour going toe to toe right now.

You just made my day :superlol::superlol::superlol:

LisaKoh
02-18-2012, 12:46 PM
You just made my day :superlol::superlol::superlol:

Really? You don't think so? I haven't seen a forehand ever hit as hard or as cleanly as these two. Especially Del Potro, that thing is like a rocket. On TV not so much but in person, it's monstrous. Berdych has that great windshield wiper action going on with his and he's used that shot to dispose of quite a few good players.

I'm curious, who do you think has a better forehand than these two?

masterclass
02-18-2012, 01:27 PM
Really? You don't think so? I haven't seen a forehand ever hit as hard or as cleanly as these two. Especially Del Potro, that thing is like a rocket. On TV not so much but in person, it's monstrous. Berdych has that great windshield wiper action going on with his and he's used that shot to dispose of quite a few good players.

I'm curious, who do you think has a better forehand than these two?

I don't know about better, who's to judge? Let's just say one of the best. Other than the ones you mention, one obvious candidate for one of the best forehands not only of this generation but of all time would be Mr. Federer. It's deadliest on faster courts, but it is a feared shot on any court. He may not have the most powerful forehand, but he can make every shot in the book and invent shots not in the book with his forehand and hit it with power and placement. His peers echo this:

"He's the most gifted player that I've ever seen in my life. I've seen a lot of people play. I've seen the (Rod) Lavers, I played against some of the great players—the Samprases, Beckers, Connors, Borgs, you name it. This guy could be the greatest of all time. That, to me, says it all."
—John McEnroe

"Roger’s forehand is the greatest shot in our sport."
—McEnroe

“His shot-making is second to none.”
—Lleyton Hewitt

A bit of hyperbole, certainly, but it's a fair assessment.

Fernando Gonzalez certainly had one of the best in this generation, a lot of power. Rafael Nadal's forehand is very strong, the best topspin, but he does not have the variety of Federer.
Soderling, Tsonga, Djokovic all have excellent forehands.

Respectfully,
masterclass

theKSHE
02-18-2012, 01:29 PM
Really? You don't think so? I haven't seen a forehand ever hit as hard or as cleanly as these two. Especially Del Potro, that thing is like a rocket. On TV not so much but in person, it's monstrous. Berdych has that great windshield wiper action going on with his and he's used that shot to dispose of quite a few good players.

I'm curious, who do you think has a better forehand than these two?

masterclass just said it all.

ossie
02-18-2012, 01:32 PM
Two best forehands on the tour going toe to toe right now.
you are only half right :wavey:

ossie
02-18-2012, 01:34 PM
If it's a pacey court, Berdych, if it's a slow court, Del Pony.looked pretty fast to me :stupid:

rocketassist
02-18-2012, 01:44 PM
looked pretty fast to me :stupid:

Slow/medium I thought.

LisaKoh
02-18-2012, 01:46 PM
Well Federer back then, yes. Federer circa 2012 dumps that shot into the net more often and starts making all kinds of UEs with it. (See the Isner match) But yeah, back in his prime he could do some great things with a forehand. Nowadays though, it's fleeting. And he did lose to these two on hard courts so you could argue that Berdych and Del Potro's forehands (when they're on) tend to overpower Roger's. He's hitting it with too much spin nowadays so it tends to sit up short. :(

Gonzalez is retired but that was a terrific shot when he was in his prime. Terrific, aesthetically pleasing and really fun to watch. As for Nadal, it's a shot that works on some and it doesn't work so well on others. For guys who can handle the spin like Djokovic, it's not such a devastating shot. On the other hand, the Djoker lost to Delpo last year and he was match point down against Berdych in the WTF which is a lot closer than Nadal got.

If I had to choose a forehand (from any active player, right now) I'd pick either Berdych or Del Potro's. theKSHE if you don't agree, you're perfectly entitled to collapse in a fit of conniptions as your smileys suggest.

theKSHE
02-18-2012, 01:51 PM
Nothing against you, seriously, you're making some valid points, but I simply cannot accept Berdych being one of the best forehands on tour. Simply does not compute. Even Tsonga can do better.

Clay Death
02-18-2012, 01:57 PM
vamos d-pot. he brutalizes berdych as i predicted yesterday. he is too consistent for berdych when he is playing well.

this one never was in question.

masterclass
02-18-2012, 05:30 PM
Well Federer back then, yes. Federer circa 2012 dumps that shot into the net more often and starts making all kinds of UEs with it. (See the Isner match) But yeah, back in his prime he could do some great things with a forehand. Nowadays though, it's fleeting. And he did lose to these two on hard courts so you could argue that Berdych and Del Potro's forehands (when they're on) tend to overpower Roger's. He's hitting it with too much spin nowadays so it tends to sit up short. :(

Gonzalez is retired but that was a terrific shot when he was in his prime. Terrific, aesthetically pleasing and really fun to watch. As for Nadal, it's a shot that works on some and it doesn't work so well on others. For guys who can handle the spin like Djokovic, it's not such a devastating shot. On the other hand, the Djoker lost to Delpo last year and he was match point down against Berdych in the WTF which is a lot closer than Nadal got.

If I had to choose a forehand (from any active player, right now) I'd pick either Berdych or Del Potro's. theKSHE if you don't agree, you're perfectly entitled to collapse in a fit of conniptions as your smileys suggest.

A lot of what you say has truth in it, but I think you perhaps overstate the problematic performances and don't account for why they may have occurred. Also, you don't mention the Berdych or Del Potro inconsistencies. Are there none?

Is Mr. Federer as consistent now as he approaches 31 as he was in his mid 20's? Probably not. Does he frame a few more? Yes. Does he hit more into the net as he attempts to hit winners on slow courts? Sure. But no matter. Just because he has descended from the stratosphere doesn't mean he has crashed to earth. I believe he still has more variety with excellence in the game on his forehand than anyone else at his level, and in conditions that favor him (granted, with so many slow conditions these days it's not as many), he can still beat the best, and make them look like they are in quicksand. His forehand volleys are as deft as ever, he just doesn't get the chance use it as much these days.

If you don't think he still has the great forehand with variety of shots, talk to any top players that he recently beat during his recent 2011-2012 24 match streak, Nadal, Tsonga, Berdych, Del Potro. Talk to Ivo Karlovic about the instinctive forehand lob that Federer conjured off Karlovic's dropshot about 1 meter from the net that he somehow managed to launch over the 6'10 (208cm) Karlovic's head at the 2012 Australian Open facing set point against him in the first set tiebreaker. Talk to #1 Novak Djokovic about how difficult it is, even in his prime, to survive the Federer forehand variety of shots and beat the elder Mr. Federer in important tournaments on any surface.

Does he have moments where his forehand appears to be off? Yes, especially when conditions don't suit him (slower and especially high bouncing surfaces). Isner and Fribourg? That court was laughable, with its high and irregular bounces and clearly didn't suit him. Of course that is going to produce more errors from Federer. Against Nadal in Australia, they played on the coolest, slowest conditions of the tournament. After 3 games with new balls, it was almost impossible to hit winners against Nadal. So he attempted quite risky flatter shots and hit a large number of forehands into the net in an attempt to produce winners. Was it the right strategy? That's a different question.

I'm sure one could point to other instances here and there where one could say Federer's forehand let him down, especially in the last 2-3 years as his collection of tournament has waned, but those moments are relatively far and few between. Many people tend to remember failures more than the successes, especially when a player has been great. His forehand is still an excellent weapon and one of the best in the game, even today.

Would one prefer Mr. Del Potro's or Mr. Berdych's forehand over Federer's? It's a matter of opinion. I happen to prefer excellence of a variety of shots over a one or two dimensional powerful shot, though again, any of these forehands are excellent and worthy of mention.

Respectfully,
masterclass

LisaKoh
02-19-2012, 04:31 AM
I do happen to like Roger's forehand (see my sig) and I agree with some of your points but overall, I'd still take the DelPo forehand or the Berdych forehand over his. Is it a matter of personal preference? Perhaps. Federer has a great rally shot and he can do some crazy angles with his forehand. But DelPo and Berdych can kill a point with their forehands much more effectively.

Put it this way; these guys can hit 145 km winners off their forehands all day long whereas few other players can do that. Sitting on top of the baseline, you see some of their shots and think "How did they do that?" With Federer it's more of how he constructs the point rather than the physical execution of the shot itself, if it makes any sense.