Murray Nadal Rivalry- New Dimension in 2012? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Murray Nadal Rivalry- New Dimension in 2012?

Shinoj
12-23-2011, 05:50 AM
I think Murray will over turn the lopsided H2H against Nadal.

The Reasons

The Bagel in Bangkok... Yes Murray completely outplayed Nadal.. In fact he whipped him like a Cake on the Court.And there was no injuries Nadal had as he was playing at his Best in the first Set.


Nadal has finally been worked out by Djokovic,Murray,Florian Mayer,Dodig,Federer... You name it.


I think Murray will beat Nadal more times than not in 2012. Its gonna be a monumental Year

HKz
12-23-2011, 05:53 AM
This thread is not jumping the gun by any means.

bishi
12-23-2011, 05:54 AM
I think Murray will over turn the lopsided H2H against Nadal.

The Reasons

The Bagel in Bangkok... Yes Murray completely outplayed Nadal.. In fact he whipped him like a Cake on the Court.And there was no injuries Nadal had as he was playing at his Best in the first Set.


Nadal has finally been worked out by Djokovic,Murray,Florian Mayer,Dodig,Federer... You name it.


I think Murray will beat Nadal more times than not in 2012. Its gonna be a monumental Year

Define worked out? Other than Novak I dont think anyone has beaten his ass consistently this year.

RafaForever
12-23-2011, 06:04 AM
Asian swing - the purple patch of Murray's carrer :lol: :p
Cant see him repeating it, let alone the possibility of beating Nadal :worship:

Dougie
12-23-2011, 06:08 AM
A new dimension would be for there to actually be a rivalry between these two. I don´t think Nadal really cares about the asian swing that much...

Shinoj
12-23-2011, 06:19 AM
This thread is not jumping the gun by any means.

Just a Prediction.


Define worked out? Other than Novak I dont think anyone has beaten his ass consistently this year.


That matters because Nadal lost his confidence a lot after that.. Its no surprise that he was defeated by so many After Djokovic did him and its no surprise either he stated he has lost his passion.


Asian swing - the purple patch of Murray's carrer :lol: :p
Cant see him repeating it, let alone the possibility of beating Nadal :worship:


If he didnt care why was he there in the first place... Victory is different and defeating by a Bagel is different. He got a BAGEl

Mystique
12-23-2011, 06:36 AM
No. Murray hasnt proved himself as being able to consistently meet and beat the best at the Slams. The two times he beat Nadal in a slam, he collapsed against Federer. There is no indication the same wont happen. Nadal is the ultimate big match player. Rafa wont have an inch, you have to wrstle it from him.

And anyway, the best I see him doing is going 1-2 against Rafa in a slam in a calender year. Andy just doesnt seem to have the head, the Wimbledon collapse was unbelievable and indicates no improvement to me.

Shinoj
12-23-2011, 07:35 AM
No. Murray hasnt proved himself as being able to consistently meet and beat the best at the Slams. The two times he beat Nadal in a slam, he collapsed against Federer. There is no indication the same wont happen. Nadal is the ultimate big match player. Rafa wont have an inch, you have to wrstle it from him.

And anyway, the best I see him doing is going 1-2 against Rafa in a slam in a calender year. Andy just doesnt seem to have the head, the Wimbledon collapse was unbelievable and indicates no improvement to me.


Rafa is going Downhill...

SetSampras
12-23-2011, 08:22 AM
No such thing as a rivalry when one of the guys can't even manage to win a slam

Nathaliia
12-23-2011, 09:02 AM
Andy needs to win a Slam first. Against any opponent. Otherwise it's at the Tsonga-Berdych rivalry, nothing too thrilling I mean. Sorry.

I believe in Masters events Andy could dominate if he simply can get more consistent (which I expect from him to achieve after all). But the slams would matter more anyway.

Chirag
12-23-2011, 10:38 AM
Andy needs a slam first .This is secondary

Saberq
12-23-2011, 10:41 AM
Yeah and Fed has rivalry with Canas

Chirag
12-23-2011, 10:43 AM
No such thing as a rivalry when one of the guys can't even manage to win a slam
no sets won in a slam final :o

Shinoj
12-23-2011, 12:41 PM
That is restrictive and stagnant thinking if you guys feel that just because in the past Nadal dominated Murray it will happen the same in future. The Dynamics has changed and it is going to show soon.

Egreen
12-23-2011, 01:01 PM
Not on clay, though.

But at Wimbledon and the USO, Murray should have beaten Nadal this year.

Maybe next year Murray beats Nadal at slams other than RG.

Saberq
12-23-2011, 01:02 PM
That is restrictive and stagnant thinking if you guys feel that just because in the past Nadal dominated Murray it will happen the same in future. The Dynamics has changed and it is going to show soon.

it has not changed at all...are you fucking kidding me ......Murray winning some Mickey Mouse tournament that Rafa doesnt give a fuck.....Murray is a mental midget....like Lebron James or Messi at the World Cup ...some people are born to choke....they lack the killer instinct a champions drive......Murray will not beat Nadal ever in a Slam anymore...those two wins were fluke anyway......AO he was injured even a blind hater saw that

KaiserT
12-23-2011, 01:22 PM
I think Murray will over turn the lopsided H2H against Nadal.

The Reasons

The Bagel in Bangkok... Yes Murray completely outplayed Nadal.. In fact he whipped him like a Cake on the Court.And there was no injuries Nadal had as he was playing at his Best in the first Set.


Nadal has finally been worked out by Djokovic,Murray,Florian Mayer,Dodig,Federer... You name it.


I think Murray will beat Nadal more times than not in 2012. Its gonna be a monumental Year

*Was in Tokyo.

Shinoj
12-23-2011, 01:44 PM
it has not changed at all...are you fucking kidding me ......Murray winning some Mickey Mouse tournament that Rafa doesnt give a fuck.....Murray is a mental midget....like Lebron James or Messi at the World Cup ...some people are born to choke....they lack the killer instinct a champions drive......Murray will not beat Nadal ever in a Slam anymore...those two wins were fluke anyway......AO he was injured even a blind hater saw that

:lol: U R a mental midget... If Nadal didnt give **** why was he there at the tournament.....

Saberq
12-23-2011, 01:53 PM
:lol: U R a mental midget... If Nadal didnt give **** why was he there at the tournament.....

you are just a blind hater ........

Looner
12-23-2011, 02:30 PM
Murray is almost Nadal's turkey and you are talking about a change in the 'rivalry'. There's no rivalry, just a constant annihilation (I don't like it but it's true).

Shinoj
12-23-2011, 02:36 PM
you are just a blind hater ........


Nopes. I have just sensed a trend.

Chirag
12-23-2011, 03:15 PM
it has not changed at all...are you fucking kidding me ......Murray winning some Mickey Mouse tournament that Rafa doesnt give a fuck.....Murray is a mental midget....like Lebron James or Messi at the World Cup ...some people are born to choke....they lack the killer instinct a champions drive......Murray will not beat Nadal ever in a Slam anymore...those two wins were fluke anyway......AO he was injured even a blind hater saw that

in the AO nadal was outplayed in sets 1 and 2 where he played great .He actually fell down in set 3 start that caused him to get injured and retire .He was beaten fair and square by Murray even before that :p

US Open was a crushing and had it not been postponed would have lost in 3 .Any sane rafa fan would tell you that ;)

2003
12-24-2011, 04:40 AM
Not on clay, though.

But at Wimbledon and the USO, Murray should have beaten Nadal this year.

Maybe next year Murray beats Nadal at slams other than RG.

At French Open too.

He was suprisingly highly competitive in that match. How many break points did he have?

Mountaindewslave
12-24-2011, 05:06 AM
Shinoj possibly biggest troll ever? Nadal figured out by Dodig?? seriously... my god this guy is delusional holy shit

Mountaindewslave
12-24-2011, 05:08 AM
Yeah and Fed has rivalry with Canas



:lol::lol: this.... what an absurd thread. apparently Tokyo was appointed a Grand Slam without anybody realizing it accep for Shinoj

paseo
12-24-2011, 05:47 AM
All of you that are underestimating Murray will learn a lesson in 2012.

Shinoj
12-24-2011, 05:59 AM
Shinoj possibly biggest troll ever? Nadal figured out by Dodig?? seriously... my god this guy is delusional holy shit


Djokovic defeated him and it has knocked him off... Thats why there were those defeats and thats is exactly what is premise of my thread.

FormerRafaFan
12-24-2011, 11:41 AM
I predict Murray to win every single match against Rafa next season. Not because Murray is all of a sudden a better player, but because Rafa is just THAT much worse. Rafa is a pathetic and disgusting joke of a tennis player. I laugh when I see that disgusting human being. He deserves to lose every fucking match. He's pathetic.

!VamosRafa!
12-24-2011, 08:11 PM
He also bagelled Rafa in Rotterdam in 2009 and a few weeks later Rafa trashed him 6-1 6-2 in Indian Wells final.

Sham Kay
12-24-2011, 11:16 PM
Well troll'd. Might turn out true but in terms of provoking the insecure Nadal fans, well troll'd.

Mountaindewslave
12-25-2011, 04:21 AM
Djokovic defeated him and it has knocked him off... Thats why there were those defeats and thats is exactly what is premise of my thread.

in Grand Slam action Nadal only lost to Djokovic and in Masters he lost to Djokovic, Murray, and other players randomly here and there.... it has nothing to do with figuring out.

call me or bring this thread up again when Murray beats Nadal again in a big match that actually matters............ until then seriouslyyy get a reality check

Nadal's problem in 2011 was Djokovic not Murray or the rest of the tour :o :o :o

Shinoj
12-25-2011, 08:53 AM
in Grand Slam action Nadal only lost to Djokovic and in Masters he lost to Djokovic, Murray, and other players randomly here and there.... it has nothing to do with figuring out.

call me or bring this thread up again when Murray beats Nadal again in a big match that actually matters............ until then seriouslyyy get a reality check

Nadal's problem in 2011 was Djokovic not Murray or the rest of the tour :o :o :o


In Tennis all it takes is a few matches.

Remember Borg-McEnroe W 81.. Courier-Bruguera FO 93..

Once again i am saying can it turn their rivalry. Its a speculative question to all and not a definitive thread by me.

Shinoj
12-25-2011, 08:56 AM
Well troll'd. Might turn out true but in terms of provoking the insecure Nadal fans, well troll'd.

:scratch::scratch:....:rolleyes:

Topspindoctor
12-25-2011, 10:27 AM
Mugray is a talentless pusher, thus he has zero slams and Nadal has 10. How many times clueless Mugray fangirls started these dumb topics after Nadal lost some meaningless match and then went on to thrash the pusher in slams? Mugray should consider his USO 2008 win and AO 2010 wins over Nadal the best and most important matches of his career, because this mug will never beat Nadal in slam again.

Shinoj
12-25-2011, 01:51 PM
Murray has beaten Nadal quite emphatically so its clear that he has the talent to do it again.

Vida
12-25-2011, 02:37 PM
murray could use extra wining mentality, but his losses to nadal have not been exclusively down to the lack of it. in big matches, when going for the tile, it is clear nadal has a lot to hurt andy. mainly exposing his forehand.

Shinoj
12-26-2011, 05:59 AM
He obviously has the talent to beat Nadal or even Federer. But Tennis these days is not about Talent alone. You have to be a Bastard to win it. You have to be bloody minded enough to win it. You have to want the match more than your opponent. You have to be ruthless to win it. You have to do all it takes on a tennis court to win it. That is exactly what people like Nadal and Djokovic do and Murray doesnt do.

Somehow he wants to look classy in the matches all the time. Sorry but that wont win you Grand Slams. That might have won you titles in 60's like Rosewall did. To think about it more its a British Mentality. They are rarely successfull in any sports these days. They are finally getting their act togethet in Cricket. But that is about it. Their well Famed EPL has become a Marketing Machine; and has almost 60 % foreginers. Its a parody of sorts. And even then its crumbling now. In Champions League EPL is falling part.

Murray has the same Loser British Mentality. the one which wants to keep a fake "Playing spirit" above winning. Its a baggage they are carrying from the past where they were successful. But sorry the World has moved on and Playing spirit counts for not much.

Shed that losers mentality Murray might win a thing or two. Carry it along and the World will poke even more fun at you. FFS Federer was poking fun at Murray. Of all people Federer. It was hilarious indeed.

Anyways back on the topic. If he can show that Tigerish spirit required to win a Grand Slam he can. He cant play like a WTA Player when he is facing a challenge of Djokovic or Nadal. They will molest you on the court.

rutinos harcos
12-26-2011, 06:13 AM
No such thing as a rivalry when one of the guys can't even manage to win a slam

Exactly.Rafa is a 10 time GS winner while Mugray is pathetic loser and slamless mug.

rutinos harcos
12-26-2011, 06:28 AM
He obviously has the talent to beat Nadal or even Federer. But Tennis these days is not about Talent alone. You have to be a Bastard to win it. You have to be bloody minded enough to win it. You have to want the match more than your opponent. You have to be ruthless to win it. You have to do all it takes on a tennis court to win it. That is exactly what people like Nadal and Djokovic do and Murray doesnt do.

Somehow he wants to look classy in the matches all the time. Sorry but that wont win you Grand Slams. That might have won you titles in 60's like Rosewall did. To think about it more its a British Mentality. They are rarely successfull in any sports these days. They are finally getting their act togethet in Cricket. But that is about it. Their well Famed EPL has become a Marketing Machine; and has almost 60 % foreginers. Its a parody of sorts. And even then its crumbling now. In Champions League EPL is falling part.

Murray has the same Loser British Mentality. the one which wants to keep a fake "Playing spirit" above winning. Its a baggage they are carrying from the past where they were successful. But sorry the World has moved on and Playing spirit counts for not much.

Shed that losers mentality Murray might win a thing or two. Carry it along and the World will poke even more fun at you. FFS Federer was poking fun at Murray. Of all people Federer. It was hilarious indeed.

Anyways back on the topic. If he can show that Tigerish spirit required to win a Grand Slam he can. He cant play like a WTA Player when he is facing a challenge of Djokovic or Nadal. They will molest you on the court.
So,British are losers and pussies?But French,they're all fearless dragon slayers.And current French top tennis players are all multiple GS winners and RG
crowd is the nicest and most objective.Yep,the French,gotta love 'em.

GSMnadal
12-26-2011, 07:54 AM
2011 Monte Carlo Nadal 6-4 2-6 6-1
2011 Roland Garros Nadal 6-4 7-5 6-4
2011 Wimbledon Nadal 5-7 6-2 6-2 6-4
2011 US Open Nadal 6-4 6-2 3-6 6-2
2011 Some shit tournament no one cares about Murray 3-6 6-2 6-0

lol, yeah, Murray has definitely figured out Nadal :rolls:

The only reason Murray beat him there, was because Rafa's season was over the moment he lost at the US Open. When Nadal really cares about a tournament, he'll up his game to a level that is unreachable for Murray and Federer these days.

Saberq
12-26-2011, 12:00 PM
2011 Monte Carlo Nadal 6-4 2-6 6-1
2011 Roland Garros Nadal 6-4 7-5 6-4
2011 Wimbledon Nadal 5-7 6-2 6-2 6-4
2011 US Open Nadal 6-4 6-2 3-6 6-2
2011 Some shit tournament no one cares about Murray 3-6 6-2 6-0

lol, yeah, Murray has definitely figured out Nadal :rolls:

The only reason Murray beat him there, was because Rafa's season was over the moment he lost at the US Open. When Nadal really cares about a tournament, he'll up his game to a level that is unreachable for Murray and Federer these days.

nicely said man :worship:

Shinoj
12-26-2011, 01:35 PM
So,British are losers and pussies?But French,they're all fearless dragon slayers.And current French top tennis players are all multiple GS winners and RG
crowd is the nicest and most objective.Yep,the French,gotta love 'em.


French know that their players are not good enough so they don't hype them beyond Perspective. And thats what British do to their players. They hype them beyond perspective.

And by the way the French are known for their flair. Their players play an elegant brand of tennis. You could see all of their players have an entertaining brand of Tennis. So in a way they are true to their style.Whereas the British do not have any style of their own.

syc23
12-26-2011, 02:58 PM
Murray will win a slam before any frogs even get a sniff of one - that includes Tsonga.

I was hoping that Tsonga would give Federer a good match at USO after Wimbledon but he folded like a cheap tent (as had Murray in GS finals), but I would expect Murray to get to more GS finals simply because he is more consistent than the talented but erratic Frenchman.

Shinoj
12-26-2011, 03:10 PM
Murray will win a slam before any frogs even get a sniff of one - that includes Tsonga.

I was hoping that Tsonga would give Federer a good match at USO after Wimbledon but he folded like a cheap tent (as had Murray in GS finals), but I would expect Murray to get to more GS finals simply because he is more consistent than the talented but erratic Frenchman.

Tsonga had atleast defeated Federer and Nadal at important junctures ;)..

Allez Notre propre Tsonga.

HKz
12-26-2011, 03:24 PM
Mugray is a talentless pusher, thus he has zero slams and Nadal has 10. How many times clueless Mugray fangirls started these dumb topics after Nadal lost some meaningless match and then went on to thrash the pusher in slams? Mugray should consider his USO 2008 win and AO 2010 wins over Nadal the best and most important matches of his career, because this mug will never beat Nadal in slam again.

Damn, a talentless pusher with zero slams beat your queen Nadal at a slam event twice while he has never defeated your rival "Olderer" at a slam ever... ouch

You do realize the more you make all the players around your god Nadal look bad, it makes Nadal look even worse, don't you?

Shinoj
12-26-2011, 04:12 PM
Many players at their best ever form can easily defeat Nadal

Djokovic,Federer,Murray,Tsonga,Nalbandian,Del Potro. The List is quite long in fact.

Saberq
12-26-2011, 04:17 PM
Many players at their best ever form can easily defeat Nadal

Djokovic,Federer,Murray,Tsonga,Nalbandian,Del Potro. The List is quite long in fact.

Yeah but that also means that Nadal is not in his best form ......

Shinoj
12-26-2011, 04:20 PM
Yeah but that also means that Nadal is not in his best form ......



There is no Best form for Nadal. He is that steady almost all the time. There is nothing called as a Peak in his play. He preys on his opponents weaknesses most of the time.

Saberq
12-26-2011, 04:36 PM
There is no Best form for Nadal. He is that steady almost all the time. There is nothing called as a Peak in his play. He preys on his opponents weaknesses most of the time.

there is of course his peak form ...when he is fast,precise,never misses,get's to any ball,o mental lapses and so on

Shinoj
12-26-2011, 04:53 PM
there is of course his peak form ...when he is fast,precise,never misses,get's to any ball,o mental lapses and so on

That depends. If he is playing a shit scared Federer he obviously will be pumped up but against Djokovic he wont have that. It almost depends on his opponents form than his.

tribalfusion
12-26-2011, 05:30 PM
That depends. If he is playing a shit scared Federer he obviously will be pumped up but against Djokovic he wont have that. It almost depends on his opponents form than his.

You are a funny poster. Nadal has clearly played better or worse like any tennis player for that matter.

All the guys you mention as being able to beat Nadal when at their best can potentially also beat anyone else when at their best.

However every player you mentioned has a losing record against Nadal which is an important point and no doubt one you will ignore.

Chirag
12-27-2011, 02:32 AM
Shinoj watch Nadal from Hamburg 2008 to the Olympics that year and tell me that many players can beat that Rafa

Mountaindewslave
12-27-2011, 03:33 AM
Shinoj watch Nadal from Hamburg 2008 to the Olympics that year and tell me that many players can beat that Rafa

very well said, that sort of level rarely emerges, definitely a good point. It's quite clear at this point that Shinjoh?**** is just trying to stir up trouble though hahah

Shinoj
12-27-2011, 05:03 AM
You are a funny poster. Nadal has clearly played better or worse like any tennis player for that matter.

All the guys you mention as being able to beat Nadal when at their best can potentially also beat anyone else when at their best.

However every player you mentioned has a losing record against Nadal which is an important point and no doubt one you will ignore.


I am just saying that more often than not its the opponents who win the game for Nadal than vice versa.

Mystique
12-27-2011, 05:19 AM
Shinoj watch Nadal from Hamburg 2008 to the Olympics that year and tell me that many players can beat that Rafa

:rolleyes:

Watch Federer from Wimbledon 2006 to Australian Open 2007 and tell me how many player can beat that Federer.:p

We can go round and round with this. No one stays in their peak forever. This crap that fans and pundits talk about beating a guy "at his best" is bull. It is not really that simple.

Nadal did have a "peak" and Shinoj doesnt know what he talking about. He peaked from clay season 2008 and there he was near unbeatable. But most great players at their best are near unbeatable because usually playing their best involves in a big way not letting the opponent play his best. Which is why you hardly see matches in which both great players play to their maximum best.

Chirag
12-27-2011, 05:54 AM
:rolleyes:

Watch Federer from Wimbledon 2006 to Australian Open 2007 and tell me how many player can beat that Federer.:p

We can go round and round with this. No one stays in their peak forever. This crap that fans and pundits talk about beating a guy "at his best" is bull. It is not really that simple.

Nadal did have a "peak" and Shinoj doesnt know what he talking about. He peaked from clay season 2008 and there he was near unbeatable. But most great players at their best are near unbeatable because usually playing their best involves in a big way not letting the opponent play his best. Which is why you hardly see matches in which both great players play to their maximum best.

I know but he believes Tsonga Murray Nalbandian and I dont know who can beat that Rafa at his best which is just nonsense ;)And 2 players can never play at their best for the full match at the same time

Shinoj
12-27-2011, 06:04 AM
:rolleyes:


Nadal did have a "peak" and Shinoj doesnt know what he talking about. He peaked from clay season 2008 and there he was near unbeatable. But most great players at their best are near unbeatable because usually playing their best involves in a big way not letting the opponent play his best. Which is why you hardly see matches in which both great players play to their maximum best.

I cant talk about 2008 and so because that was the time i stopped watching Tennis.

But what i can gather about his game was that his only Rival,Federer had a big big mental Block about Nadal. It was almost funny. Federer would play his natural game in the first set till he leads 5-4 or 5-2 or so. Nadal would slowly turn the game on his own tempo by hitting, yes, Yours truly High moonballs on Federer's Backhand. And that was it. Federer would always play a catch up game from there, hitting the odd winners and eliciting symphathetic respnse from the crowd, but he cannot overcome the Ghost of Nadal, which is nowehere but in his own head, he wilts and folds up in 4 sets. And that happens in exactly all of their matches.


And there were no real rivals really for Nadal during those times. Murray was madly inconsistent. And there were odd Del Potros who came on sporadically enough to raise hopes but dissappeared as fast as they came.

This was my feeling about Nadal and his lack of competition during those times. however i might be wrong as i had mentioned earlier i didnt watch as closely as i did during earlier Eras. The lack of competition was appalling during what you say "Peak Nadal" times.


I say Peak Nadal never existed. He bought a playing style which nobody had seen before. A highly physical game with never say dies attitude which was imbibed by tony since he opened his eyes. Once that attitude was imbibed tony had to teach him basics of Tennis and cleverly he taught him playing Left Handed and playing with Topspin which was a remarbably ingenial move in hindsight. Some might think it as a Genius but i think he completely based Nadal's game on one of the greatest player the World has ever seen. Yes Bjorn Borg. The similarities are eerie. Borg played with a Never say die spirit. He played with a TopSpin and he played a waiting game. You can put your house, your car, you whole neighborhood on this that in future Nadal will come out and say that toni based his game almost on Bjorn Borg.

I can congratulate Toni/Nadal on their supreme planning and dedication but there will be only one Bjorn Borg, A player was a genius, who never had anyone guiding him fulltime, he came out like a lone force; dicdated the whole Tour to play on his terms. In short he was like a Napolean. He cam he saw he conquered. And in hindsight i can see so many players who have based their game on Bjorn Borg. Its remarkably uncanny.

For me these are the only true genuises who also reached sublime heights of the game.

Rod Laver, Bjorn Borg and Roger Federer.

guga2120
12-27-2011, 06:17 AM
Yes, he could certainly beat him more, especially if they play alot on hard. Don't put too much stock in the Bangkok win, though. A little different beating him at Roland Garros/Wimbledon.

FedvsNole
12-27-2011, 06:26 AM
Their matches in slams have always been so lopsided in nadal's favor. Even when nadal had been destroyed so many times by nole up to the us open semi, murray still could only get 1 set off of nadal.

The only hope for murray is nadal has really lost passion or is now really injured with a shoulder or some shit knee. Murray's best chance to beat nadal will be at the AO 2012. If they meet and murray goes down again on arguably one of his best surfaces murray won't beat nadal in a slam this year just like last so nothing has changed

/thread.