Superior Shot-maker, Djokovic or Nadal??? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Superior Shot-maker, Djokovic or Nadal???

MatchFederer
12-14-2011, 08:36 AM
I will say nor do anything but ask this question: :devil:

Who is the superior shot-maker, Rafael Nadal or Novak Djokovic?


Actually, I will make one small point and that is that there is such a thing as defensive shot-making; this isn't something that registers with everybody.

ssj100
12-14-2011, 08:41 AM
Nadal. That's why he has 6 more Grand Slams.

tyruk14
12-14-2011, 10:18 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mLlIwmukh4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EGz8AeqAPY

Imperfect Angel
12-14-2011, 11:24 AM
I actually prefer winner shots which come from being defensive in a certain point. So Nadal.

leng jai
12-14-2011, 11:36 AM
Defensively Nadull easily. Offensively...probably Faker but neither are great at it.

Sophocles
12-14-2011, 11:43 AM
Djoker was more of a shot-maker in 2007/8 than he is now.

Saberq
12-14-2011, 11:50 AM
Novak has 2 great wings ..Nadal has 1.....

MatchFederer
12-14-2011, 11:57 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mLlIwmukh4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EGz8AeqAPY

Worth learning how to embed: [youtube} - youtube code excluding 'v=' - [/youtube]

samanosuke
12-14-2011, 12:25 PM
my english is broken . if shot maker = moonballer then nadal , in any other case djokovic

Shinoj
12-14-2011, 12:37 PM
Djokovic, No question about it.


Nadal is a naturally defensive player. He counters almost everything with his Top spinning Backhand or Forehand. And when in the rally he feels he should give it a go only then he goes for his shots. Otherwise his routine game is to wait for the opponents mistakes.


While Djokovic is a naturally aggressive player. It starts from his return of the serve which is often wandering on the baseline of the Server. he goes for his shots from the moment go. Only when the opponent has seized the initiative of shot making i have seen Djokovic defensive and that too on his back hand. More or less He is an aggressive player.

For shot making i have seen Nadal hit some screamers but they are quite far and few and that too when the opponent is in a bad position on the court, while Djokovic was hitting screamers left right and center at the start of the year. For me its quite obvious Djokovic without a question.

Nole Rules
12-14-2011, 01:11 PM
Nole easily.

mystic ice cube
12-14-2011, 02:08 PM
Djokovic by a landslide in terms of being aggressive, but shotmaking covers a multitude of areas of tennis. Nadal is capable of great shotmaking, but only feels comfortable going for winners when the rally is done or he is being countered effectively defensively, and feels the need to hit one. Nole on the other hand will always hunt for winners and has produced some of the best shotmaking I've ever seen on a tennis court. And many have been when on the defensive or in an uncomfortable motion. Added pressure obviously doesn't seem to faze him either. Nadal defensively (obviously), but in terms of attacking shot making, no contest.

emotion
12-14-2011, 02:19 PM
Djokovic, no matter how wild commentators go over RN's passing shots

paseo
12-14-2011, 02:21 PM
akFbES6O9oE

Naudio Spanlatine
12-14-2011, 04:17 PM
well actually this is a tough one for me:scratch: I like both players alot and i love how amazing their defense and offense they have but Nole actually tops Rafa by some margin just because he ends the points quicker and he doesnt need to rely on long rallies like Rafa does, do get me wrong Rafa is working on that part in his game and getting a lil better each time but for me like one person said about Noles 07-08 seasons, Nole really was a dangerous for Rafa ESPECIALLY on hardcourts and sometimes even clay, i still have haunted memories of how he was i thought peaking in the semis of Cincy in 08, the way he hit his backhand shot in the most phemominal way was just shit ridiculous:eek: I mean i thought and knew that Nole will be a very dangerous opponent for Rafa because not only is he good with his offensive skills hes also good with his defensive skills as well and his first and second serves were so vishious:worship:

EDIT: And lemme add that he was spectacular at redirecting his shots on both sides......jus like my DelPetra Kvitty(Petra Kvitova;) )

C0iDELQFl9I

Clashcityrocker
12-14-2011, 05:11 PM
poll with no options :angel:

Sham Kay
12-14-2011, 05:26 PM
Djokovic (what's his bleedin' middle name darnit?) Novak better the shot-maker is.

ossie
12-14-2011, 06:16 PM
djoker obviously as we have seen from their last 6 or 7 matches

Mountaindewslave
12-14-2011, 06:50 PM
Nadal and it's not even close. Nadal actually hits fantastic shots and shocks the viewer sometimes. I am hardly ever surprised or awed by shots from DJokovic.

the mistake here is that obviously Djokovic can play agressively better than Nadal which has skewed the poll but as far as shot making, Nadal has better variation and can hit greater shots from awkward positions. Djokovic just always returns the ball fast and deep. he is extremely consistant and fast but not a great shot maker. Nadal on the other hand hits great great shots.

I don't understand how this poll is so lopsided, Nadal actually is recognized of being able to hit some sick angles and shots, Djokovic is just a counter puncher who acts like a PONG wall reflecting

Nole Rules
12-14-2011, 07:21 PM
Nadal and it's not even close. Nadal actually hits fantastic shots and shocks the viewer sometimes. I am hardly ever surprised or awed by shots from DJokovic.

the mistake here is that obviously Djokovic can play agressively better than Nadal which has skewed the poll but as far as shot making, Nadal has better variation and can hit greater shots from awkward positions. Djokovic just always returns the ball fast and deep. he is extremely consistant and fast but not a great shot maker. Nadal on the other hand hits great great shots.

I don't understand how this poll is so lopsided, Nadal actually is recognized of being able to hit some sick angles and shots, Djokovic is just a counter puncher who acts like a PONG wall reflecting

:superlol:

So bitter. Nice to see that those 6 big losses still hurt some Rafatards. :lol:
Nole is a better ballstriker and shot-maker than Nadal. Period. This poll say it all.

helvet empire
12-14-2011, 07:43 PM
LOL djokovic easily. Nadull always makes the same shot, sometimes he makes a winner of it, more often he doesn't. God I hate him.

Mountaindewslave
12-14-2011, 08:30 PM
:superlol:

So bitter. Nice to see that those 6 big losses still hurt some Rafatards. :lol:
Nole is a better ballstriker and shot-maker than Nadal. Period. This poll say it all.

blocking like a PONG wall does not make you a better shotmaker. Nadal makes incredible shots and Djokovic just reflects. I'm not saying Nadal doesn't moonball a good amount of the time, but comparing the two and what sort of shotmaking abilities they have when playing their defensive games, Nadal creates some miraculous angles and variation. Djokovic just hits with pace deep to the baseline over and over and over and over with the occasional drop shot back to deep baseline over and over.

of course Nadal is the better shotmaker, regardless of bitterness, tennis commentators do not go on and on about Djokovic's incredible shots but his remarakble physicality and consistancy.

Saberq
12-14-2011, 08:41 PM
blocking like a PONG wall does not make you a better shotmaker. Nadal makes incredible shots and Djokovic just reflects. I'm not saying Nadal doesn't moonball a good amount of the time, but comparing the two and what sort of shotmaking abilities they have when playing their defensive games, Nadal creates some miraculous angles and variation. Djokovic just hits with pace deep to the baseline over and over and over and over with the occasional drop shot back to deep baseline over and over.

of course Nadal is the better shotmaker, regardless of bitterness, tennis commentators do not go on and on about Djokovic's incredible shots but his remarakble physicality and consistancy.

Djokovic can hit perfect angles from both wings Nadal cant ....end of story

luie
12-14-2011, 08:55 PM
Nadull at the core is a moon baller . So a couple of passings shots here and there would change anything.

peRfect-Tennis
12-14-2011, 09:19 PM
Neither are shotmakers. What is defensive shotmaking?

samanosuke
12-14-2011, 09:42 PM
ok. enough of useless shits . here is the real stuff


GzqetD22lQs

helvet empire
12-14-2011, 09:43 PM
Neither are shotmakers. What is defensive shotmaking?

there is such a thing as defensive shotmaking (half volleys, blocks....).

Federer is also the GOAT of that kind of shotmaking. Djokovic and Murray are also pretty good at that. And like I said nadull always plays the same shot so he's the worst shotmaker in history:D

Clashcityrocker
12-14-2011, 09:46 PM
ok. enough of useless shits . here is the real stuff


GzqetD22lQs

this is shotmaking !! :D

helvet empire
12-14-2011, 09:49 PM
ok. enough of useless shits . here is the real stuff


GzqetD22lQs

more shotmaking in there than in all nadull's carreer:worship:

peRfect-Tennis
12-14-2011, 09:50 PM
there is such a thing as defensive shotmaking (half volleys, blocks....).

Federer is also the GOAT of that kind of shotmaking. Djokovic and Murray are also pretty good at that. And like I said nadull always plays the same shot so he's the worst shotmaker in history:D

Hmm I guess! I tend to think more of those shots as racket head ability though. But either way, Fed tops them on both counts.

HKz
12-14-2011, 09:54 PM
Hmm, I guess they are both similar in terms of shot-making. Now when I talk about shot-making, I'm not necessarily talking about clutch shots which seems to be what many of the posters here are referring to. In my opinion shot-makers are players like Blake, Tsonga, Federer, Murray, Monfils, etc any of these players that pull off some random miracle shot from time to time no matter how much of a mug they are normally. Shots like a backhand smash, tweeners, crushing groundstroke well pulled totally off the court (Murray does these well), and so forth are those that I consider as great shot-making plays. So by going by this definition, both Novak and Rafael are a bit plain as they are certainly out there to hit all day if they have to. Of course, they have hit plenty of great shots like Rafael's overhead tweener against Novak in Madrid this year, but I think they are few and far between.

Clashcityrocker
12-14-2011, 10:07 PM
more real shotmaking

mI6u8kF00wI

Egreen
12-14-2011, 10:48 PM
Neither are shotmakers. What is defensive shotmaking?

Ditto.

Saberq
12-15-2011, 01:03 AM
Neither are shotmakers. What is defensive shotmaking?

stop posting shit and go hide .....

leng jai
12-15-2011, 01:05 AM
Defensive shotmaking is self explanatory - hitting a surprisingly aggressive/attacking shot from a defensive position. Nadull is probably on of the GOATs at it on his forehand.

emotion
12-15-2011, 01:23 AM
ok. enough of useless shits . here is the real stuff


GzqetD22lQs

Not a fan, but he really is beautiful to watch when he's god. Sad those days are fewer now, it was funny at times how outclassed everyone else was

stewietennis
12-15-2011, 01:28 AM
I'm not sure who is better. Novak will hit more good shots from the defensive position. But Nadal will hit spectacular shots with less frequency. So, a lot of good shots vs some great shots.

MatchFederer
12-15-2011, 02:03 AM
ok. enough of useless shits . here is the real stuff


GzqetD22lQs

:lol:

/end thread.

Mountaindewslave
12-15-2011, 02:11 AM
I'm not sure who is better. Novak will hit more good shots from the defensive position. But Nadal will hit spectacular shots with less frequency. So, a lot of good shots vs some great shots.

this; Djokovic just does not hit incredible shots! there are not many moments in his matches were you are awed by the angle he has just hit or the variation! what we're awed by with him is the great saves he has and his speed and his consistancy.

Nadal is not necessarily even close to as agressive or 'going for it' as often as NOvak, but he hits 'play of the week' type shots far more often, which would translate into being more of a shotmaker.

as someone else stated though, it's like arguing whether George Foreman or Mike Tyson were better at grinding out wins when they boxed? they were knock out fighters! Nadal and DJokovic are not shotmakers so this thread is strange.

but of course Nadal hits the more noteworthy shots in big points than Djokovic. Djokovic is just a consistant wall and will surprise you with saves and returning something very fast but Nadal can actually shock you with the huge forehand winner out of nowhere

Sophocles
12-15-2011, 10:51 AM
Put it this way, Nadal's passing shots are arguably the most spectacular of all time, whereas Djoker's style of shot-making with hard shots from both wings sometimes with angles has been done considerably better by Safin, Agassi, & various others.

JayR
12-15-2011, 08:06 PM
poll with no options :angel:

No options = Nul Points.

ok. enough of useless shits . here is the real stuff


GzqetD22lQs

End Of Discussion. :yeah: More there than you'd see in a month of Sundays.



more real shotmaking

mI6u8kF00wI

Real shotmakers don't need two hands. :p

Seriously, wouldn't necessarily classify either of them as pure shotmakers per se.

Clashcityrocker
12-15-2011, 09:47 PM
No options = Nul Points.



End Of Discussion. :yeah: More there than you'd see in a month of Sundays.





Real shotmakers don't need two hands. :p

Seriously, wouldn't necessarily classify either of them as pure shotmakers per se.


quote of the month

stewietennis
12-15-2011, 09:54 PM
Real shotmakers don't need two hands. :p

Borg, Connors, Agassi, Safin? No shotmakers amongst these guys?

Haelfix
12-15-2011, 09:57 PM
Rafa I think. He has a ton of what you could call defensive shotmaking. Running passing shots/banana shots, but also randoms like the point at the FO this year where Roger had a point blank sitter that he clubbed at Rafa who somehow managed to get a racquet on it and lob it to the back of the court (and keep it in).

Not an outright winner, but the degree of difficulty was insane. He has a lot of those, and probably more frequent than Novak .

Clashcityrocker
12-15-2011, 10:00 PM
Borg, Connors, Agassi, Safin? No shotmakers amongst these guys?

overrated :D

MatchFederer
12-15-2011, 10:56 PM
Rafa I think. He has a ton of what you could call defensive shotmaking. Running passing shots/banana shots, but also randoms like the point at the FO this year where Roger had a point blank sitter that he clubbed at Rafa who somehow managed to get a racquet on it and lob it to the back of the court (and keep it in).

Not an outright winner, but the degree of difficulty was insane. He has a lot of those, and probably more frequent than Novak .

I was hoping somebody would finally bring this up, this unique shot-making capacity of Nadal is really amazing, but is it enough to overhaul the potency of Djokovic who is more capable of hitting winners from neutral positions in rallies off both wings (?).


Others have pointed to the uniqueness of Nadal's shot-making (in their opinions) compared to Novak's and others have quite curiously dismissed Djokovic's brilliant deflective defensive shots as unworthy of being a part of his shot-making arsenal -- quite curious to say the least.

***

Effectiveness please, not uniqueness... on the whole.

***


Just some thoughts and by the end of it we can compile further reasoning and also the question needs to be asked due to semantic issues: what is shot-making? Given the answers in this thread, many folks are on a different page. Cheers.

Haelfix
12-15-2011, 11:11 PM
Yea, so simply hitting winners isn't exactly what I would call shotmaking. For instance Philipoussis hit tons of winners in his career, but I wouldn't call him a shotmaker. I'd say he was a ballbasher. Shotmaking is more about some unusual combination of angles, painting lines, high degree of difficulty and/or unlikely shots/combinations.

So while its true that Novak does hit far more winners than Rafa, many of those winners were constructed and routine flat baseline shots.
So while you do see him hit some beautiful dtl backhands that clip a line (which is shotmaking), the immense majority are far more safe and ordinary, but perfectly executed.

However, when you see him do a running cc bh passing shot with half an inch net clearance, while he is doing a split, then yes thats what I would call shotmaking.

Make sense?

MatchFederer
12-15-2011, 11:22 PM
Make's sense but I disagree. To dismiss Philipoussis' flat hard hitting accurate and powerful winners as not shot-making is a bit like people dismissing Djokovic's flat impressive reflective defensive counter-punch winners or Nadal's uncanny and accurate defensive lobs which extend the point beyond where any other player can manage. After all, only a few people can produce these higher risk and flatter winners out of nowhere with a reasonable amount of consistency and so I don't think it can really be dismissed. But you bring up a good issue in answering the question, that being, when do we draw the line.

Djokovic has this supreme ability to redirect the ball with these so called 'routine flat baseline shots', a quality which actually only a few players can really pull off consistently because the level of skill required to play in that manner is extremely high.

Extreme top-spin allows for a different kind of shot-making where insane angles are produced and such but is Nadal incapable of consistently producing attacking, flat, rally-ending shots? His pressure is much more controlled, and the extremity of his top-spin will often force an error out of the opponent; a shot-making quality in itself, some would argue.

TheBoiledEgg
12-16-2011, 12:40 AM
Calling either a shotmaker is an insult to shotmakers

fast_clay
12-16-2011, 02:12 AM
Haas > Federer > Tomic > Baghdatis > Mayer > Soderling > Hildago > some noob > Djokovic > Nadal > Robredo > Bogolomov Jr > Fish

MatchFederer
12-16-2011, 02:15 AM
Haas > Federer > Tomic > Baghdatis > Mayer > Soderling > Hildago > some noob > Djokovic > Nadal > Robredo > Bogolomov Jr > Fish

Devvarman > Tomic > Haas > Baghdatis > Mayer > Soderling > Hildago > Federer > John Lloyd > some noob > Djokovic > Nadal > Robredo > Laver > Roddick > Fish > Murray