Roger has won 22 elite singles tournies; Rafa 11; Novak 5; Sampras 21... [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Roger has won 22 elite singles tournies; Rafa 11; Novak 5; Sampras 21...

MatchFederer
11-29-2011, 01:51 PM
Federer has won 22 elite singles tournaments now in his career, which is very impressive.

By comparison:


Federer - 22 (16 Slams, 6 Year-end Championship equivalents)
Sampras - 19 (14 , 5)
Lendl - 15 (8 , 7)
McEnroe - 15 (7 , 8)
Borg - 14 (11, 3)
Nadal - 11 (10, 1 Olympic Gold)
Connors - 11 (8 , 3)
Becker - 10 (6 , 4)
Agassi - 10 (8 , 1 , 1)
Newcombe - 8 (7 , 1)
Edberg - 7 (6 , 1)
Wilander - 7 (7)
Djokovic - 5 (4 , 1)
Courier - 4 (4)
Kuerten - 4 (3 , 1)
Murray - 0

***

More contentious:

Rosewall - 25 + (not including probably lots of YEC wins - but includes 2 WCT Finals wins which were both over Rod Laver)
Laver 19+ (not including probably lots of YEC wins)


Reason? Didn't always partake in the same Slam equivalent tournaments due to being on different tours for a few years and, even when both on the same tour for several years, still a divide existed between two alternative tours (implications are obvious. I am not the type to spell them out).

****

This is based on Slams and Year-end Championship tournaments containing only the cream of the crop (Oh, and Olympic Gold). Winning these tournaments generally takes an incredibly high level of play and requires victory over an elite field.

Please, those who have a greater insight into the status of tournaments at certain times, feel free to give alternative numbers for these players.

viruzzz
11-29-2011, 01:56 PM
Wow... Those numbers are so amazing.
I mean, we all know those numbers... And we all know Fed's titles, but... Come on! It's so f*n cool.

MatchFederer
11-29-2011, 02:03 PM
I don't know all this info about what tournaments should be considered as an equal in terms of quality and/or prestige to Slams or YEC's so if those who have a greater knowledge of past times can chime in and argue why some of these numbers should be (likely) raised or lowered then please do so. I'm sure Connor's count is probably low for reasons I am unsure of right now, though obviously I realise he boycotted the French for a few years and didn't take the AO seriously.

spencercarlos
11-29-2011, 02:04 PM
Federer has won 22 elite singles tournaments now in his career, which is very impressive.

By comparison:

Sampras - 21 (14 Slams, 7 Year-end Championship equivalents)
Lendl - 15 (8 , 7)
McEnroe - 15 (7 , 8)
Borg - 14 (11, 3)
Connors - 11 (8 , 3)
Nadal - 11 (10, 1 Olympic Gold)
Becker - 10 (6 , 4)
Agassi - 10 (8 , 1 , 1)
Newcombe - 8 (7 , 1)
Edberg - 7 (6 , 1)
Wilander - 7 (7)
Djokovic - 5 (4 , 1)
Courier - 4 (4)
Kuerten - 4 (3 , 1)
Murray - 0

***

More contentious:

Rosewall - 25 + (not including probably lots of YEC wins - but includes 2 WCT Finals wins which were both over Rod Laver)
Laver 19+ (not including probably lots of YEC wins)


Reason? Didn't always partake in the same Slam equivalent tournaments due to being on different tours for a few years and, even when both on the same tour for several years, still a divide existed between two alternative tours (implications are obvious. I am not the type to spell them out).

****

This is based on Slams and Year-end Championship tournaments containing only the cream of the crop (Oh, and Olympic Gold). Winning these tournaments generally takes an incredibly high level of play and requires victory over an elite field.

Please, those who have a greater insight into the status of tournaments at certain times, feel free to give alternative numbers for these players.
How Sampras has 7 year end Championships? when he has only won 5?..

MatchFederer
11-29-2011, 02:06 PM
How Sampras has 7 year end Championships? when he has only won 5?..

He also won 2 Grand Slam Cups, which was a tournament that invited those who performed the best in the Slams that year to compete against each other in an elite tournament. I don't really know so well if these are worthy of recognition or not, so I'm waiting for those who remember the times more clearly to chime in with their wisdom and ideas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Slam_Cup#Men_2

Some years are maybe questionable. 1992 is impressive, Stich won the tournament by beating Edberg, Krajicek (in best of 3's), Sampras and Chang (in best of 5's).

atennisfan
11-29-2011, 02:07 PM
How Sampras has 7 year end Championships? when he has only won 5?..

Probably stole 2 from fed.

Sophocles
11-29-2011, 02:13 PM
Good idea for a thread. We probably need Echoes to give us some input here - he's an expert on the status of tournaments on the pro and early Open-era tours. Not sure how many YECs were available to Laver, Rosewall et al in the pro years but if you're counting their pro slams, with small but elite draws, it seems right to count YECs for more recent players.

Figures need to be done for Richard Gonzales, & maybe Budge & Tilden too.

Saberq
11-29-2011, 02:43 PM
Murray 0 :haha:

your_valentine
11-29-2011, 02:44 PM
Wait, what? Nadull has won 10 Slams already? :help: that's depressing :o

alter ego
11-29-2011, 02:53 PM
If grand slam cup was an elite singles tournament you might as well count Abu Dhabi.

spencercarlos
11-29-2011, 03:49 PM
He also won 2 Grand Slam Cups, which was a tournament that invited those who performed the best in the Slams that year to compete against each other in an elite tournament. I don't really know so well if these are worthy of recognition or not, so I'm waiting for those who remember the times more clearly to chime in with their wisdom and ideas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Slam_Cup#Men_2

Some years are maybe questionable. 1992 is impressive, Stich won the tournament by beating Edberg, Krajicek (in best of 3's), Sampras and Chang (in best of 5's).
That was an exhibition event, awarded no points. Really funny if you try to count an event like that :lol:

I would give you the thumbs up by counting the Olympics, as it is as big event in tennis, but it really is worldwide. But counting the grand slam cup is really ridiculous.

Purple Rainbow
11-29-2011, 03:51 PM
He also won 2 Grand Slam Cups, which was a tournament that invited those who performed the best in the Slams that year to compete against each other in an elite tournament. I don't really know so well if these are worthy of recognition or not, so I'm waiting for those who remember the times more clearly to chime in with their wisdom and ideas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Slam_Cup#Men_2

Some years are maybe questionable. 1992 is impressive, Stich won the tournament by beating Edberg, Krajicek (in best of 3's), Sampras and Chang (in best of 5's).

Counting the Grand Slam cup gives players an unfair advantage. It means there were 6 elite titles to be won every year, compared to 5 now.

I seem to believe the GS cup wasn't very heavily contested either.

samanosuke
11-29-2011, 04:06 PM
we all waiting for SetSampras's words of wisdom . He'll count GS Cup as Golden Slam

MatchFederer
11-29-2011, 04:18 PM
I am listening and respecting the comments that have come in so far, and I will edit my opening post but I'd just like to wait for a few more opinions to come in.

SetSampras
11-29-2011, 04:22 PM
Laver has won 199 titles to Fed's measily 70. ROFL.. This is fun. Baiting me are you? :)

samanosuke
11-29-2011, 04:28 PM
Laver has won 199 titles to Fed's measily 70. ROFL.. This is fun. Baiting me are you? :)

Fed is also usually winning Bottmingen tennis Championship

MatchFederer
11-29-2011, 06:10 PM
Are Roger and Pete really so far ahead of the likes of Connors and Borg or am I missing several very important events?

BlueSwan
11-29-2011, 06:14 PM
GS cup was a joke exhibition event. You might as well count Battle Of The Surfaces.

eduggs
11-29-2011, 06:40 PM
Laver has won 199 titles to Fed's measily 70. ROFL.. This is fun. Baiting me are you? :)

This is just silly.
Of his 199 titles, 54 were won as an amateur and 69 before the open era. Back then they played a ton of tournaments, many of which had an invitational field of only a few players. The top seeds didn't always play all the rounds and defending champions were sometimes placed directly in the final.

Laver was a all-time great champion and competitor. I think he's hugely underappreciated today because of the limited video coverage of his prime playing days. But you cannot compare the achievements of players from his era to players in the open era. It's clearly an apples to oranges scenario.

By any measure, 70 ATP titles with the modern tournament structure and elite competition is impressive.