Most Likely to Threaten the Big 4 [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Most Likely to Threaten the Big 4

TENNISCRACK
11-29-2011, 07:33 AM
What Player has the best shot to shake thing up and really challenge the big 4, for one of their spots ?

SetSampras
11-29-2011, 07:44 AM
At this point with the state of the top 5-10 right now.. Probably Agassi or McEnroe or Sampras.. Hell maybe even Laver.


Nah.. Probably Del Potro if he ever gets 100 percent healthy. The top 4 won't be shook next year.. Its going to take time for these younger guns to mature. Maybe Dolgopolov one day?

tripwires
11-29-2011, 07:44 AM
Ceteris paribus, Tsonga.

FedvsNole
11-29-2011, 07:48 AM
injury

rickcastle
11-29-2011, 07:56 AM
injury

:bigclap:

merryploughbhoy
11-29-2011, 09:46 AM
Easy, it going to be Del Potro when he gets back to form after his wrist injury and Tsonga.

Sophocles
11-29-2011, 09:51 AM
Isn't Tsonga the only player to have beaten ALL of the Top 4 in slams?

Time Violation
11-29-2011, 10:04 AM
Isn't Tsonga the only player to have beaten ALL of the Top 4 in slams?

The way he beat Novak at AO and Fed at W, not too likely to repeat it :)

siffleanimaux
11-29-2011, 10:09 AM
Tomic. Came close to beating the big 3 a few times, or did very well against them and he's only just broken through.

Sophocles
11-29-2011, 10:28 AM
The way he beat Novak at AO and Fed at W, not too likely to repeat it :)

No, but "most likely" is relative, no?

dodo
11-29-2011, 10:42 AM
The way he beat Novak at AO and Fed at W, not too likely to repeat it :)
More likely than anyone else. Its not like the matches were donated to him, he had to take it. Few have the balls or the ability.

Gandalf
11-29-2011, 10:50 AM
Tsonga, then del Potro and then Ferrer.

Time Violation
11-29-2011, 10:50 AM
More likely than anyone else. Its not like the matches were donated to him, he had to take it. Few have the balls or the ability.

Novak's match was as good as donated, and I doubt that Fed can have such lackluster performance again. Of course, kudos to Tsonga if he takes his chances, but WTF finals showed that he'll have to do better than that. Plus he's going to turn 27 in few months, so time isn't really working for him.

Guga_fan
11-29-2011, 11:03 AM
Soderling for sure if he is injury and disease free.

henke007
11-29-2011, 11:45 AM
Soderling already cracked the top 4 with over 6K Points and him again when he is back in full gear hopefully..

romismak
11-29-2011, 12:11 PM
Healthy Del Potro, Tsonga and Soderling are those player that can take down big 4 at slams. Maybe Berdych in form too. Nobody else.

sexybeast
11-29-2011, 12:20 PM
I say the one who have beaten all of them in slams...

Puschkin
11-29-2011, 02:41 PM
once and for all, there is no big four!

Sophocles
11-29-2011, 02:59 PM
once and for all, there is no big four!

Well, only 4 players made the finals at grand slams in 2011, and only 4 players won the 15 premier events (slams, WTF, Masters), & they were the same 4, so....

SetSampras
11-29-2011, 03:28 PM
ROFL @ people saying Clownga. Del Potro got the slam and beat both Nadal and Fed doing it. What the hell has Clownga done again? Besides shit the bed at slams?

Filo V.
11-29-2011, 03:39 PM
Murray has zero majors.

tennisfan856
11-29-2011, 03:49 PM
themselves.

drive, passion, injuries.

xdrewitdajx
11-29-2011, 04:25 PM
Tsonga, without any doubt.

There are a few who can "threaten", but Tsonga is by far the most likely.

Sophocles
11-29-2011, 06:15 PM
ROFL @ people saying Clownga. Del Potro got the slam and beat both Nadal and Fed doing it. What the hell has Clownga done again? Besides shit the bed at slams?

I think you're missing the point of the question. It's about the future.

Johnny Groove
11-29-2011, 06:16 PM
Healthy Del Potro, Tsonga and Soderling are those player that can take down big 4 at slams. Maybe Berdych in form too. Nobody else.

Pretty much.

HKz
11-29-2011, 06:23 PM
Tsonga is the only one with multiple successes against each player.

In fact, Tsonga is so good that when he beat Nadal just last week in the RR stage, he notched 2 wins bringing him from a 2-6 record against Nadal to a 4-6 record. A legend this Tsonga. http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=T786&oId=N409

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/1474/tsonganad.png

Dougie
11-29-2011, 06:24 PM
Expect Lopez to crack the top 5 by Wimbledon.

MuzzahLovah
11-29-2011, 06:49 PM
Tsonga is the only one with multiple successes against each player.

In fact, Tsonga is so good that when he beat Nadal just last week in the RR stage, he notched 2 wins bringing him from a 2-6 record against Nadal to a 4-6 record. A legend this Tsonga. http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=T786&oId=N409

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/1474/tsonganad.png

Tsonga's only beaten Murray once, and that was years ago.

MuzzahLovah
11-29-2011, 06:51 PM
I'm going to guess healthy Soda.

HKz
11-29-2011, 07:07 PM
Tsonga's only beaten Murray once, and that was years ago.

I thought the big 4 was Federer, Nadal, Djokovic and Sampras? Who is this Murray?

Ibracadabra
11-29-2011, 08:10 PM
murray will challenge the big 4 this season.

Saberq
11-29-2011, 08:36 PM
murray will challenge the big 4 this season.

:haha:

shanks
11-29-2011, 10:17 PM
Tsonga!

Fuser59
11-29-2011, 10:20 PM
Cilic will threaten ...next year..to enter top 40

Sapeod
11-29-2011, 10:22 PM
murray will challenge the big 4 this season.
Federer, Nadal, Djokovic and....Del Potro, right? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Topspindoctor
11-29-2011, 11:26 PM
What Player has the best shot to shake thing up and really challenge the big 4, for one of their spots ?

I wasn't aware slamless losers now became part of a group that includes multiple slam winners...

stewietennis
11-29-2011, 11:48 PM
Why is there a lot of expectation from Juan Martin Del Potro? It's been over two years since his last significant win. The likes of Tsonga, Ferrer and Fish or even newcomers like Raonic and Tomic have posted better results than Juan the past two years. Not to state the obvious, but if Juan didn't get injured he'd likely be #3 or #4, but he did get injured and there haven't been signs of him getting back to '09 form so why all the expectation?

TENNISCRACK
11-30-2011, 12:06 AM
I wasn't aware slamless losers now became part of a group that includes multiple slam winners...

To not put Murray in the conversation with Federer, Djokovic, and Nadal is kind of unfair. He never won a slam, that is true, but he has been ranked in the top four,f or many years now. I am not the one who coined the phrase "the big 4", it has been around for a while.

Topspindoctor
11-30-2011, 12:13 AM
To not put Murray in the conversation with Federer, Djokovic, and Nadal is kind of unfair. He never won a slam, that is true, but he has been ranked in the top four,f or many years now. I am not the one who coined the phrase "the big 4", it has been around for a while.

The phrase "big 4" has been coined by Mugray fanboys :shrug: You can't add a player who has zero slams to a group who have multiple slams and in case of Olderer and Nadal slams in double digit territory....

Thunderfish8
11-30-2011, 02:02 AM
If Ferrer can match his Aussie Open result, and put in a good result at Indian Wells (where he was shot down first round last year) and then ride the momentum into the clay court season and play in all three Masters and Barcelona
AND
if Federer fails to carry his end of season momentum into 2012 and starts fking up again, then Ferrer might do it... but he's gotta do it next year because i think next year will be his last top 10 year

Tsonga and Soderling still have at least 3 years left each if they remain healthy so they might do it


What is the most confusing is why everybody is talking about who is going to replace Murray. I am not a Murray fan, but I'm smart enough to know that Roger can't keep up this form for much longer and when somebody drops out of the "big 4" its gonna be him. Murray can and will find a way to bullshit his way into a solid hold of #3 and the remains of the Federer regime will be left to Tsonga and Soderling

And I agree with those of you who also believe that Del Potro will not see the top 5 for a very long time if he ever sees it again. I don't remember who said it but it's pointless to speculate what could have been if he wasn't out in 2010 but he was so stop living in a fantasy and start thinking logically. He really hasn't shown an incredible amount of improvement even by the fall.

SetSampras
11-30-2011, 02:05 AM
:haha::haha::haha:

Anyone who thinks someone outside the top 4 will do anything significant on the big stage after all this time forget it.. There will be no chance for any kind of change of the guard until 2013. You have a better chance of getting a sodomy charge reduced to tailgaiting.


The ONLY hope is Del Potro and hes far from peak 09 form. Hes the only proven slam winner. The rest aren't even close to that level

eduggs
11-30-2011, 02:18 AM
Tsonga, Raonic, DelPotro, Berdych, Ferrer, Soderling, Simon, Dolgopolov, Monfils, Gasquet, Isner, Tomic, Wawrinka, Anderson, Hasse, Nishikori, Bellucci in that order.

I think somebody in the first 6 on this list has a good chance of cracking the top 4 at some point in 2012. I think the rest are long shots.

eduggs
11-30-2011, 02:24 AM
:haha::haha::haha:

Anyone who thinks someone outside the top 4 will do anything significant on the big stage after all this time forget it.. There will be no chance for any kind of change of the guard until 2013. You have a better chance of getting a sodomy charge reduced to tailgaiting.


The ONLY hope is Del Potro and hes far from peak 09 form. Hes the only proven slam winner. The rest aren't even close to that level

You are simply not good at predicting future events in tennis. Unexpected changes occur in the tennis hierarchy and rankings every year.

In 2009 Federer spanked Del Potro at the Australian, narrowly defeated him at the French, and then narrowly lost to him at the US Open. Few people predicted that evolution back in December 2008 or January 2009. And when Djokovic spent half a season serving more double faults than aces, many people predicted he would never win another slam. Nobody predicted, as early as last December, his rampage in 2011.

Players never seem slam worthy until they are suddenly holding the trophy. A dozen players have what it takes to win a slam. But to do so they have to have the tournament of the life.

selyoink
11-30-2011, 02:27 AM
Tsonga and Del Potro are the only ones with ability.

eduggs
11-30-2011, 02:29 AM
If Ferrer can match his Aussie Open result, and put in a good result at Indian Wells (where he was shot down first round last year) and then ride the momentum into the clay court season and play in all three Masters and Barcelona
AND
if Federer fails to carry his end of season momentum into 2012 and starts fking up again, then Ferrer might do it... but he's gotta do it next year because i think next year will be his last top 10 year

Tsonga and Soderling still have at least 3 years left each if they remain healthy so they might do it


What is the most confusing is why everybody is talking about who is going to replace Murray. I am not a Murray fan, but I'm smart enough to know that Roger can't keep up this form for much longer and when somebody drops out of the "big 4" its gonna be him. Murray can and will find a way to bullshit his way into a solid hold of #3 and the remains of the Federer regime will be left to Tsonga and Soderling

And I agree with those of you who also believe that Del Potro will not see the top 5 for a very long time if he ever sees it again. I don't remember who said it but it's pointless to speculate what could have been if he wasn't out in 2010 but he was so stop living in a fantasy and start thinking logically. He really hasn't shown an incredible amount of improvement even by the fall.
I agree with most of this. In the relative short term, I think Federer has as much upside as downside rankings potential. But in the medium to long term, I agree he's the most likely to fall out of the top 4. As good as he is, something's gotta give. I

SetSampras
11-30-2011, 02:30 AM
You are simply not good at predicting future events in tennis. Unexpected changes occur in the tennis hierarchy and rankings every year.

In 2009 Federer spanked Del Potro at the Australian, narrowly defeated him at the French, and then narrowly lost to him at the US Open. Few people predicted that evolution back in December 2008 or January 2009. And when Djokovic spent half a season serving more double faults than aces, many people predicted he would never win another slam. Nobody predicted, as early as last December, his rampage in 2011.

Players never seem slam worthy until they are suddenly holding the trophy. A dozen players have what it takes to win a slam. But to do so they have to have the tournament of the life.

Actually I successfully predicted "to the T" how the Fed and Tsonga finals would go. :) Didn't predict a Del Potro injury so early in the game , but I have NO DOUBT, JMDP would have won continued successfully to win, maybe not every tournament but would have gotten another good slam or two.

Nole was bound to catch and fire and win his fair share.. Who else outside of Fed and Nadal had the talent to win outside of Nole? You don't put all your eggs in the basket with guys who don't have any slams to their name after 3-4 years of unsuccessful tries.

Topspindoctor
11-30-2011, 02:37 AM
Actually I successfully predicted "to the T" how the Fed and Tsonga finals would go. :)

:superlol::superlol::superlol:

Even Sapeod could have predicted the result of that one correctly.

SetSampras
11-30-2011, 02:40 AM
:superlol::superlol::superlol:

Even Sapeod could have predicted the result of that one correctly.

Yea that true.. Clownga never ceases to disappoint.. Even if he is 5 years younger.

eduggs
11-30-2011, 02:42 AM
Actually I successfully predicted "to the T" how the Fed and Tsonga finals would go. :) Didn't predict a Del Potro injury so early in the game , but I have NO DOUBT, JMDP would have won continued successfully to win, maybe not every tournament but would have gotten another good slam or two.

Nole was bound to catch and fire and win his fair share.. Who else outside of Fed and Nadal had the talent to win outside of Nole? You don't put all your eggs in the basket with guys who don't have any slams to their name after 3-4 years of unsuccessful tries.

No I've read a lot of your crap posts. You tend to overvalue the dominant player of the moment and undervalue everybody else. You are also guilty of wishcasting with your predictions, because you obviously have an emotionally inspired vested interest in the outcomes.

The jury is still out on delPotro. He's obviously enormously talented, and still plenty young, but I think his US Open might have been a bit lucky.

Federer was around the tour for a solid 4 years before he started dominating. Sometimes in takes a while for talent, confidence, and experience to come together. Both Soderling and Berdych were veterans before they made slam finals. If you get to a final, you're good enough to win it.

SetSampras
11-30-2011, 02:46 AM
No I've read a lot of your crap posts. You tend to overvalue the dominant player of the moment and undervalue everybody else. You are also guilty of wishcasting with your predictions, because you obviously have an emotionally inspired vested interest in the outcomes.

The jury is still out on delPotro. He's obviously enormously talented, and still plenty young, but I think his US Open might have been a bit lucky.

Federer was around the tour for a solid 4 years before he started dominating. Sometimes in takes a while for talent, confidence, and experience to come together. Both Soderling and Berdych were veterans before they made slam finals. If you get to a final, you're good enough to win it.

How does beating Fed Nadal back to back equate to "luck" exactly? Who else has done that outside of Nole? :rolleyes:

Ibracadabra
11-30-2011, 03:11 AM
Federer, Nadal, Djokovic and....Del Potro, right? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

yes, would even put soderking above murray if fully fit. how many slams does andy have now mate?

eduggs
11-30-2011, 03:13 AM
How does beating Fed Nadal back to back equate to "luck" exactly? Who else has done that outside of Nole? :rolleyes:

Pretty sure Davydenko did it twice. Nalbandian too. And lots of guys have beaten both Federer and Nadal at different times, and are clearly capable of doing it in a tournament should the draw line up that way. If I employed your logic, I could say that Nadal was injured and Federer choked at the 2009 US Open. Delpotro certainly hasn't shown evidence that his lone grand slam title wasn't a fluke.

SetSampras
11-30-2011, 03:14 AM
Pretty sure Davydenko did it twice. Nalbandian too. And lots of guys have beaten both Federer and Nadal at different times, and are clearly capable of doing it in a tournament should the draw line up that way. If I employed your logic, I could say that Nadal was injured and Federer choked at the 2009 US Open. Delpotro certainly hasn't shown evidence that his lone grand slam title wasn't a fluke.

Did they do it at slams? Because last I knew.they have a big goose egg to their name. Beating Nadal and Fed AT A SLAM back to back is NOT luck. Nadal was injured ( not sure it would have mattered anyways with the way JMDP was playing there however) , and Fed arguably choked but the Del Potro peak big game, flustered Fed there.

eduggs
11-30-2011, 03:24 AM
Did they do it at slams? Because last I knew.they have a big goose egg to their name. Beating Nadal and Fed AT A SLAM back to back is NOT luck. Nadal was injured ( not sure it would have mattered anyways with the way JMDP was playing there however) , and Fed arguably choked but the Del Potro peak big game, flustered Fed there.

You are making arbitrary distinctions and defining the terms based on your own reality.

Davy and Nalby are more talented players than Delpo. Their victories over Fedal were also not luck. Their inability to win slams despite getting so close is the result of an opponent playing better on a given day (usually Federer). Delpo got to a similar position, and then he played better on that day. That alone doesn't make Delpo champion caliber and the others not.

Delpo went for broke against Nadal and Federer because he had nothing to lose. He was hitting 115mph second serves and going for the lines on return. He deserved his victory. But if you grant him that, you have to also grant that there are a dozen other guys capable of making a magical run like that at a slam. The top guys (Nadal, Federer, Djokovic) are not always at their best when the pressure is squarely on them.

SetSampras
11-30-2011, 03:30 AM
You are making arbitrary distinctions and defining the terms based on your own reality.

Davy and Nalby are more talented players than Delpo. Their victories over Fedal were also not luck. Their inability to win slams despite getting so close is the result of an opponent playing better on a given day (usually Federer). Delpo got to a similar position, and then he played better on that day. That alone doesn't make Delpo champion caliber and the others not.

Delpo went for broke against Nadal and Federer because he had nothing to lose. He was hitting 115mph second serves and going for the lines on return. He deserved his victory. But if you grant him that, you have to also grant that there are a dozen other guys capable of making a magical run like that at a slam. The top guys (Nadal, Federer, Djokovic) are not always at their best when the pressure is squarely on them.

I think you maybe Downplaying how talented Del Potro ( from an offensive perspective) really is. There is more to tennis then just talent however. At the end of the day.. Del Potro has the slam and beat the top 2 players in the world at the time back to back to get it. I will take that ANY DAY for goose egg slamless Nalbandian and Davydenko.

That ALONE makes Del Potro a CHAMPION and the others not. Nalbandian was a clown No show at the slams.. Davydenko's biggest chance came back in 2010 when he destroyed Fed in the set in Australia then falls apart. One of the great distinguishing characteristics of a champion is the mentality especially on the biggest stage.

Del Potro SHOWED he has that mentality now its just a question of health and returning to that level... What the hell has Davystinko and Doughnuts boy showed after how many years on tour? Obviously none of the top titles.

eduggs
11-30-2011, 03:39 AM
I think you maybe Downplaying how talented Del Potro ( from an offensive perspective) really is. There is more to tennis then just talent however. At the end of the day.. Del Potro has the slam and beat the top 2 players in the world at the time back to back to get it. I will take that ANY DAY for goose egg slamless Nalbandian and Davydenko.

That ALONE makes Del Potro a CHAMPION and the others not. Nalbandian was a clown No show at the slams.. Davydenko's biggest chance came back in 2010 when he destroyed Fed in the set in Australia then falls apart. One of the great distinguishing characteristics of a champion is the mentality especially on the biggest stage.

Del Potro SHOWED he has that mentality now its just a question of health and returning to that level... What the hell has Davystinko and Doughnuts boy showed after how many years on tour? Obviously none of the top titles?

For the time being, Delpo is a one slam wonder. Just like Chang, Roddick, and Gaudio.
If Federer never existed, Nalby, Davy, and Roddick might all have multiple slams. And Hewitt would be an all-time great. If Federer didn't have that bad back in the final against Delpo, would he have been victorious. If he could serve in those last 2 sets...? Would you then have relegated him to the mug pile with all the other losers?

SetSampras
11-30-2011, 03:43 AM
For the time being, Delpo is a one slam wonder. Just like Chang, Roddick, and Gaudio.
If Federer never existed, Nalby, Davy, and Roddick might all have multiple slams. And Hewitt would be an all-time great. If Federer didn't have that bad back in the final against Delpo, would he have been victorious. If he could serve in those last 2 sets...? Would you then have relegated him to the mug pile with all the other losers?

it's more impressive with a guy like Del Potro who has only been really healthy and relevant for a short time in the game to get a big slam win over the top 2 players in the world ( especially the caliber of Fed and Nadal ) then it is for guys who have been around the game for YEARS with zero slams to show for themselves.

And still that USO win in terms of "weight carried" is more impressive then Roddick's 03 USO title win and especially.. Freakin Gaudio's. :lol: I don't remember Roddick beating Fed on the big stage.. Despite 50000 tries.. But Del Potro sure did

eduggs
11-30-2011, 03:59 AM
it's more impressive with a guy like Del Potro who has only been really healthy and relevant for a short time in the game to get a big slam win over the top 2 players in the world ( especially the caliber of Fed and Nadal ) then it is for guys who have been around the game for YEARS with zero slams to show for themselves.

And still that USO win in terms of "weight carried" is more impressive then Roddick's 03 USO title win and especially.. Freakin Gaudio's. :lol: I don't remember Roddick beating Fed on the big stage.. Despite 50000 tries.. But Del Potro sure did

Delpo has to have everything working perfectly to beat the top guys. He has no plan B. When he's off, he gets double bageled by Fed and can lose to almost anyone. He is a very talented player, and dangerous for anyone... but there are other dangerous guys with more variety who are capable of making a deep run.

Roddick has been an elite player for a decade. He outplayed Federer at Wimbledon in 2009 and for parts of two other Wimby finals. In every match there is always a winner and a loser. How much of the outcome is due to luck, and how much due to composure and execution under pressure? Probably a combination of both. But I think it's clear that fans and pundits put too much stock into the results of individual matches when the results could go either way on any given day.

Shinoj
11-30-2011, 04:31 AM
It calls for Davidddddddddddddddddddddddd NALBANDIANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN...:tooth y::toothy::toothy::toothy:

TENNISCRACK
11-30-2011, 06:10 AM
I think DelPo, Nalbandian, and Daveydankop are all champions. Objectively speaking, the fact that Delpo won a slam, helps him when compared to others who not have won a slam. It is just the reality of tennis. I think Elena Dementieva had a longer and much more accomplished career than Schiavone, but the fact that Schiavone won a slam inevitablly helps her in an argument. Same thing goes for DelPo.

Sophocles
11-30-2011, 09:56 AM
And I agree with those of you who also believe that Del Potro will not see the top 5 for a very long time if he ever sees it again. I don't remember who said it but it's pointless to speculate what could have been if he wasn't out in 2010 but he was so stop living in a fantasy and start thinking logically. He really hasn't shown an incredible amount of improvement even by the fall.

Nowhere to Number 11 is a pretty big improvement.

Whether he can get back to Top 5 level is another question.

henke007
11-30-2011, 10:00 AM
Delpo can be top 10 after DC and will be at the wtf next year with Robin, hope this helps.

Sapeod
11-30-2011, 10:22 AM
yes, would even put soderking above murray if fully fit. how many slams does andy have now mate?
How many does Soderling have?? Murray >>> Soderling. Also, Murray >>>> Del Potro, slam or no slam. Sorry to tell you this but your little clown Del Potro has just that slam and absolutely nothing else. Murray's career/Murray in general >>>>>> Del Potro's career/Del Potro in general.

TennisOnWood
11-30-2011, 11:05 AM
We will have the same bloody 4 for 5th consecutive year at the end of 2012.

Ibracadabra
11-30-2011, 05:22 PM
How many does Soderling have?? Murray >>> Soderling. Also, Murray >>>> Del Potro, slam or no slam. Sorry to tell you this but your little clown Del Potro has just that slam and absolutely nothing else. Murray's career/Murray in general >>>>>> Del Potro's career/Del Potro in general.

Careers are ranks in slams not in how many micky mouse event you can accumulate.

Start da Game
11-30-2011, 06:02 PM
del potro it is and del potro it will be......