What bothers Rafa most indoors ? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

What bothers Rafa most indoors ?

romismak
11-28-2011, 10:25 PM
Iīve been thinking about this long time and what do you think it is why Rafa is not so succesfull indoor like on clay, grass and outdoor HC. I think it is because of conditions. Indoors just other players - or majority of other good players became better, Rafa canīt benefit from indoor conditions like other top players.

1. Indoor serve is better, because of no wind and sun, Rafa canīt benefit much from this, because his own serve is average. But other guys can benefit from this. Nice example is Soderling - with high toss in windy conditions it is hard for him to serve at 100%, indoors he can toss 2m the ball still no wind and can hit 220km/h.

2. Than generally indoor courts have lower bounce than outdoor courts, except of grass. So generally Rafaīs topspin is getting less effective

3. Indoor courts are generally quicker than outdoor, and Rafa like slow game. Guys like Davydenko can play fast and Rafa is in trouble, no time for his timing-positioning and right execution of groundstrokes

4. We can see that indoor HC is now getting slower just like outdoor HC, but still, because of conditions, it is not important if it is quick carpet or slow indoor HC, still you feel Rafa canīt play his game. I think those conditions are just what makes other players with weapons better, Rafa canīt benefit from indoor conditions

5. Rafa can handle outdoor conditions pretty good. I would say better than 90% of other players. He can play great in windy conditions and sun is also no problem or hot sunny day, he can play 5hours under heating sun, not anyone can do it physically.

6. Rafa is probably tired after long season during indoor season in October-November, but other top players should be tired too no?

What do you think what bothers Rafa mostly indoors? Maybe something else, but i think those reasons are all good and part of the reason Rafa is by far worst indoor- that doesnīt mean he is bad- he is good indoor player, but simply you can feel he has outdoor on any surface by far bigger chances.

GSMnadal
11-28-2011, 10:28 PM
Rafa is a lion who should proudly parade outside in the sun showing off his greatness. You don't cage a lion.

samanosuke
11-28-2011, 10:29 PM
he is probably the most adaptable player on the tour and playing indoors it's the same for everybody + lower bounce = nadal fucked

guga2120
11-28-2011, 10:30 PM
Mainly b/c of when the indoor events take place.

Federer_28
11-28-2011, 10:36 PM
The surface is not Clay

DrJules
11-28-2011, 10:39 PM
Low bounce reduces the damage his top spin forehand can do to right handers backhands.

SetSampras
11-28-2011, 10:42 PM
If we are talking Yea end indoors,, I think thats precisely why.. Because its the year end. Nadal historically hibernates after October because he expends so much energy from January to October he has nothing much left after that in the tank.. Last year was the year he actually DID have something in the tank.

TheWall
11-28-2011, 10:43 PM
His opponents make fewer unforced errors indoors because the bounce of his shots is lower and more predictable. So they can take bigger risks and put Nadal on the defense more often.

Saberq
11-28-2011, 10:48 PM
the roof

scarecrows
11-28-2011, 10:48 PM
Federer

if it wasnt for him he would have won a couple of TMCs which would have made his indoor achievements respectable

samanosuke
11-28-2011, 10:50 PM
Federer

if it wasnt for him he would have won a couple of TMCs which would have made his indoor achievements respectable

predict 10+ bashing quotes

scarecrows
11-28-2011, 10:52 PM
predict 10+ bashing quotes

it's destiny

Haelfix
11-28-2011, 11:04 PM
Its obviously the combination of many things. He isn't always fresh (but sometimes he is). Historically the court eats his bounce, which takes away his primary point construction method. The indoor conditions allow opposing ballbashers an easier time to find their rhythm, and his weaknesses are amplified (lack of a great return, lack of a dominant flat shot, not a huge serve etc)

BigJohn
11-28-2011, 11:05 PM
His underwear stuck in his ass. Same as outdoors.

romismak
11-28-2011, 11:11 PM
Its obviously the combination of many things. He isn't always fresh (but sometimes he is). Historically the court eats his bounce, which takes away his primary point construction method. The indoor conditions allow opposing ballbashers an easier time to find their rhythm, and his weaknesses are amplified (lack of a great return, lack of a dominant flat shot, not a huge serve etc)

I find it interresting that Rafa is from top players almost alone or one of very few players that indoor canīt benefit from those ,,even,, conditions. Big hitters like Tsonga, Berdych, Soderling can benefit from indoors. Delpo not- he is too tall and low bounce is not good from him either. But besides those players with big serve, agressive game also baseliners can benefit - guys like Davydenko, Nalbandian, in the past- they play their game with no liabialities, and can benefit from indoor conditions too, also Murray, Roger almost everyone except Rafa:D

sexybeast
11-28-2011, 11:11 PM
Irregularities from wind and irregular surface bounce means alot to Nadal. If your opponent cant predict how Nadal's spin will bounce they cant step in and take the ball on the rise and instead they have until the ball is above shoulder level.

If you count in lower bounces and faster courts you get a full picture of what problems Nadal faces indoors.

SetSampras
11-28-2011, 11:14 PM
I think Nadal CAN play indoors obviously. Granted, hes no Boris Becker but Look at last year when he was healthy.. Got to the finals and was one set away from beating Rog. Again with the YEC, that more or less to do with the form, level, health, Rafa is in by the end of the year.

Outside of last year, I don't remember where Nadal was reasonably close to top level at the time. If we had a "Mid Season finals" then I think Nadal already has a few big ones to his resume. Again, Nadal pretty much calls it a season after the USO historically and if he does compete after, his level has generally been many levels below where he was during during Jan-Oct

Ibracadabra
11-28-2011, 11:15 PM
Low bounce.

Filo V.
11-28-2011, 11:23 PM
It's not necessarily the lower bounce (well, London, yes), but more than that, it's the fact he doesn't generate the same amount of spin on indoor courts. His balls don't have the same tork off the surface. So therefore, his shots end up being more flat, and bouncing less high, making it easier to attack him. He also definitely doesn't defend as well indoors, it's harder to play that defensive game on indoor courts such as London.

ossie
11-28-2011, 11:23 PM
not enough oxygen for his huge muscles

BigJohn
11-28-2011, 11:25 PM
not enough oxygen for his huge muscles

Perhaps he could borrow someone's egg...

Sophocles
11-28-2011, 11:27 PM
His opponents not making mistakes.

romismak
11-29-2011, 12:06 AM
I think Nadal CAN play indoors obviously. Granted, hes no Boris Becker but Look at last year when he was healthy.. Got to the finals and was one set away from beating Rog. Again with the YEC, that more or less to do with the form, level, health, Rafa is in by the end of the year.

Outside of last year, I don't remember where Nadal was reasonably close to top level at the time. If we had a "Mid Season finals" then I think Nadal already has a few big ones to his resume. Again, Nadal pretty much calls it a season after the USO historically and if he does compete after, his level has generally been many levels below where he was during during Jan-Oct

Yes mostly he is tired to end of the year, but even fresh Rafa is i think not such threat indoors than like on outdoor surfaces. Even his best indoor performance at WTF - when he had energy wasnīt nothing special - he easily could have lost to Roddick, Berdych took him to TB, who knows what could happened if Berdych won that TB, Nole was not even with his mind in London, Murray in SF was better player, won more points, easily could have won and in F he lost to somebody with match-up advantage. Even healthy- fresh Rafa i still think wonīt win WTF. Not only that bounce is problem but overall how i said, for him indoors means no advantages, for other guys indoors means advantages- like better serving, more free points, better timing for shots, faster game and so on. Simply there is not much Rafa can do to use indoor conditions to his advantage- only thing i can get on my mind is if he somehow start to serve like USO10 Rafa indoors- this could help him a lot.

Topspindoctor
11-29-2011, 12:13 AM
Low bounce.

Shirogane
11-29-2011, 01:46 AM
A bit of everything really, except courts aren't fast.

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
11-29-2011, 04:14 AM
all of the above

plus the tour isnt afraid of him indoors

MuzzahLovah
11-29-2011, 04:37 AM
With the exception of his defeatism that Djoko2.0 has cultivated in him, he usually handles tough conditions better than anyone. His spinny shots with lots of margin are easy to keep in the court, so any wind usually hurts his opponents more so. That advantage is lost indoors.

Mae
11-29-2011, 04:53 AM
Well a hard court isn't Rafa best surface anyway and by the time you combine that with being indoors where the conditions are equal for all players. He just doesn't have a good indoor record.

romismak
11-29-2011, 09:44 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/955621-roger-federer-and-rafael-nadal-why-indoors-is-an-altogether-different-ball-game

good article, many things i mentioned in my post, why Rafa is indoor struggling, really would be interresting if Rafa played Roger 14x indoor:D what their H2H would be:D

Shirogane
11-29-2011, 09:56 PM
Much more balanced.

tektonac
11-29-2011, 09:59 PM
end of season.

atennisfan
11-30-2011, 03:34 AM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/955621-roger-federer-and-rafael-nadal-why-indoors-is-an-altogether-different-ball-game

good article, many things i mentioned in my post, why Rafa is indoor struggling, really would be interresting if Rafa played Roger 14x indoor:D what their H2H would be:D

I'd love to see that.
:rolls: