What tactics does/should Murray employ against Djokovic, esp. Djokovic v.2.0? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

What tactics does/should Murray employ against Djokovic, esp. Djokovic v.2.0?

Rodre Fegassi
10-18-2011, 12:07 PM
Murray always seems to have a game plan when facing Nadal. Most of the time that game-plan fails. He tries to hit big and flat to the forehand to set up a short reply, he tries to pummel the backhand to get a short reply, he tries to get to the net as often as possible. He tries to implement Djoker 2.0 tactics. It never works but at least he has a plan(s).

Against Djokovic I feel like he doesn't have a clue. And I'm not surprised because Djokovic doesn't have a single weakness like Rafa does (backhand, serve, shots that often don't penetrate the service box).

If you junk/slice against Djokovic he makes you pay with his big forehand, largest strike-zone in the men's game and superior movement. If you hit down the line he'll catch you out cross-court, if you hit cross court he can burn you down the line off both wings. If you hit heavy topspin we've seen what he can do to that and if you hit fast and flat he can re-direct your pace. If you serve and volley he'll pass you every time. If you serve an ace he'll hit a return winner. If you try and out-grind him you're insane, but you can't hit winners because of his consistent depth. If you get too passive he'll reel out the winners. If you draw him to the net, he will put away the volley. There is literally nothing Murray (or anyone) can do.

Djokovic is truly absolutely invincible.

Djokovic's tactics, on the other hand will be simple: hit, serve and volley everything to the Murray forehand and smack his second serve into oblivion.

Saberq
10-18-2011, 12:14 PM
yeah his gameplan against Nadal is how to lose every single time when it counts

Rodre Fegassi
10-18-2011, 12:18 PM
yeah his gameplan against Nadal is how to lose every single time when it counts

How would it have counted for him to have beaten Nadal at any of 2011's grand slam semi's when he would just have gotten whooped by invincible Djokovic or Federer at the finals anyway?

We know that Djokovic beats Rafa and Rafa beats Murray - that means if Djokovic plays Murray directly he would DESTROY Murray by much more than he destroys Rafa.

Saberq
10-18-2011, 01:03 PM
How would it have counted for him to have beaten Nadal at any of 2011's grand slam semi's when he would just have gotten whooped by invincible Djokovic or Federer at the finals anyway?

We know that Djokovic beats Rafa and Rafa beats Murray - that means if Djokovic plays Murray directly he would DESTROY Murray by much more than he destroys Rafa.

by that logic Novak shits on Rafa and Rafa on Fed so Novak should destroy Fed right?not true ...but Novak will beat Murray every team in Slam because Murray's level dips every team when it counts and he mentally checks out

Getta
10-18-2011, 01:14 PM
can't wait to see them all back on court in 2012 doing powerful stuff and such

abraxas21
10-18-2011, 01:15 PM
didnt murray have fako against the ropes in rome this year?

there too much fail in the OP. Fakovic doesnt have any particular weaknesses but he's not particularly good at attacking as he's defending. he also deeply lacks variety. i kind of laughed at the idea that djokovic goes to the net against nadal.

Saberq
10-18-2011, 01:15 PM
didnt murray have fako against the ropes in rome this year?

there too much fail in the OP. Fakovic doesnt have any particular weaknesesses but he's not particularly good at attacking as he's defending. he also deeply lacks variety. i kind of laughed at the idea that djokovic goes to the net against nadal.

Djokovic can attack with the best of them .......

Caesar1844
10-18-2011, 01:27 PM
Just junk it up. Djokovic plays Lendl tennis. He likes a rhythm and struggles against players who don't give him that. Muzza is good at serving up funky slices, he needs to stop retreating into his shell so much and take the initiative in matches.

Most of the guys who have tested Djokovic this year past the end of the first set have done so by constantly trying new things and not letting him settle into his metronome play.

MuzzahLovah
10-18-2011, 03:36 PM
Yep, Murray just has to do what he usually does, get him out of his rhythm with variety, like he did in Cinci before Djokovic remembered he doesn't have have heart like Nadal to lose a 6-0 set.

Djokovic's forehand has been great this year, but that is all confidence and focus. With enough annoyance he can probably be brought to spray it on important points, which he loved doing against fed all those years.

xdrewitdajx
10-18-2011, 03:42 PM
Djokovic's passing shots leave a lot to be desired at times, so going to the net every now and then isn't that bad of an idea.
Best thing Murray can do is just switch things up. Don't let Djokovic get into any rhythm. And he needs his 1st serve % to be respectable, it tends to suck when it counts. His 1st serve is a weapon that he doesn't use enough.

mooncreek
10-18-2011, 03:48 PM
Actually, Murray does know how to play Djokovic. He's a hell of a lot closer than Nadal.

Look at their three matches this year: you cannot count a GS final when it involves Murray, the Rome match was the best challenge Djokovic got on the clay courts before the Federer loss (considering Novak is superior to Andy on that surface, I'd say a really big deal), and the Cincinnati final is tough to judge due to Novak's health. Prior to this year, Murray had won their last few matches.

freeandlonely
10-18-2011, 04:49 PM
Keep his first serve nowadays and be more aggressive on the baseline and that's it.
I disagree that Djokovic have become a defender, by the way.

Off topic, what Nadal really has, is power. Very strong power and the following super topspin. So he doesn't need to go for shot everytime.
Murray, who doesn't have that much power, have to go for shots against Nadal.
It's risky, but he must do it, unless Nadal has a really bad day.
And Djokovic is super returner when against Nadal this year.
He doesn't pursue ridiculous angle, he is smart, he has strategy, return to Nadal's body or anywhere Nadal doesn't feel comfortable is more than enough.
Murray is a good returner, and he must be better if he wants BIG.

Naudio Spanlatine
10-18-2011, 05:06 PM
OH LORD LET THIS DEBATE BEGIN :spit: :yawn:

:secret:

The Magician
10-18-2011, 05:41 PM
_K96AbQZox0
Ki2JDWVQrRY

Hope this helps :wavey:

MTwEeZi
10-18-2011, 05:48 PM
not choking

Saberq
10-18-2011, 06:26 PM
being injured in the first video helped a lot ......4>0

The Magician
10-18-2011, 06:34 PM
being injured in the first video helped a lot ......4>0

the only thing it helped was Fakervic's bruised ego when he was getting outplayed :wavey:

Saberq
10-18-2011, 06:43 PM
the only thing it helped was Fakervic's bruised ego when he was getting outplayed :wavey:

only 1 player can outplay Novak and he wasnt there .....

Sapeod
10-18-2011, 06:46 PM
Djokovic can attack with the best of them .......
Hardly. He can only defend. Plus, he has NO variety whatsoever. Murray had him at his mercy in Rome but threw it away. Murray just needs to play with variety and nice attacking tennis coupled with his usual game and he'll beat Djokovic.

blank_frackis
10-18-2011, 06:48 PM
Rome is a good illustration of what Murray has to do to beat Djokovic (even though he lost the match). He came out in the first set and tried to be overly aggressive. He ended up getting hammered in that set. Then he reverted back to his natural game and tried to get Djokovic out of his rhythm, which worked in the second set and very nearly ended up with Murray winning the match.

It's easier for Murray to play Djokovic than Nadal in my opinion because his natural game works to an extent. I'm not saying he'll beat Djokovic in a slam any time soon, but he at least has a chance playing his natural game. Against Nadal his natural game has absolutely no chance and he knows he has to hit Nadal off the court, which doesn't suit him. There's also arguably a mental block there with Nadal that is more severe than it is with Djokovic (Djokovic being one of his peers and Nadal being a guy Murray looked up to in the earliest part of his career).

Sapeod
10-18-2011, 06:49 PM
being injured in the first video helped a lot ......4>0
Injured? Ha! If Nadal and Djokovic were as injured as their fans say they are, then they must be the mostn unfit players of all time :spit:

Djokovic was not injured, he was just outplayed :wavey:

LawrenceOfTennis
10-18-2011, 06:55 PM
Find a forehand.
Other parts of his game are at least as good as Djokovic's.

Saberq
10-18-2011, 07:43 PM
Hardly. He can only defend. Plus, he has NO variety whatsoever. Murray had him at his mercy in Rome but threw it away. Murray just needs to play with variety and nice attacking tennis coupled with his usual game and he'll beat Djokovic.

Dani your boy cant attack like Novak...unlike Andy Novak is great of both wings DTL and cross court ask Fed he said the same thing .....No defender can dominate like Novak has .......

Alex999
10-18-2011, 08:04 PM
Hardly. He can only defend. Plus, he has NO variety whatsoever. Murray had him at his mercy in Rome but threw it away. Murray just needs to play with variety and nice attacking tennis coupled with his usual game and he'll beat Djokovic.
Bud, I love both players but you are just talking BS here. How can you say that Novak can only defend, lol. That's retarded. Djokovic goes from defense to offense and vice versa. He can redirect the ball like nobody else on the tour. Why do you think he is ranked #1? How come he won 3 majors this year? You don't get there by being only defensive. You are being silly.

Are you telling me that Murray, who I dearly like, plays more offensive tennis than Djokovic? No comment. Have a great day :wavey:.

Naudio Spanlatine
10-18-2011, 08:18 PM
Hardly. He can only defend. Plus, he has NO variety whatsoever. Murray had him at his mercy in Rome but threw it away. Murray just needs to play with variety and nice attacking tennis coupled with his usual game and he'll beat Djokovic.
:o :facepalm: Sapeod, seriously???????

Sham Kay
10-18-2011, 08:21 PM
They're both quite defensive in the basic sense. Djokovic has the greater ability to attack (shown especially against Nadal) and looks alot more comfortable doing so, especially due to his flexibility, allowing him to attack/counter-punch balls Murray would instead play defensively. This is evident off both wings.

Murray's best bet is to take away the rhythm Djokovic likes so much and vary the pace of the ball and mixing the preferred area of attack unpredictably whilst using mostly defensive tennis, which he is comfortable doing. He'll need to rush the net more often than he does usually to keep Djoker guessing even more, possibly forcing errors which will make him look like he's playing badly.

That is all Ladies and Gentlemen. I also do weddings and parties.

Rodre Fegassi
10-19-2011, 05:30 PM
Actually, Murray does know how to play Djokovic. He's a hell of a lot closer than Nadal.

Look at their three matches this year: you cannot count a GS final when it involves Murray, the Rome match was the best challenge Djokovic got on the clay courts before the Federer loss (considering Novak is superior to Andy on that surface, I'd say a really big deal), and the Cincinnati final is tough to judge due to Novak's health. Prior to this year, Murray had won their last few matches.

You could say that Nadal's natural game matches up well to Djokovic pre-2011 - but then, Djokovic 2.0 proved that everyone needs to either redesign their games from scratch - or become the ultimate athlete to out-grind him.

If Murray's natural game matched up well to Djokovic pre-2011 - he will still have to completely re-design his game to compete with Djokovic 2.0 - and he's got no chance of doing that. Djokovic 2.0 is completely invincible against whatever Murray will try to do.

Nadal I'm not so sure, because I have a feeling that Nadal will put on 30lbs of solid muscle of the off-season, and come back a rampaging bull with vertical jumps and 40yrd dash times comparable to an elite American Football player. He will become the ultimate athlete and get to all of Nole's shots with the speed of an Olympic sprinter - and will have the power of an Olympic weightlifter when it comes to accelerating the racket-head, thereby enabling him to put 150,000rpm topspin on the ball. I hope that is what Nadal meant by saying he would work harder in the off-season.

Naudio Spanlatine
10-19-2011, 05:32 PM
i think Sapeod and The Magician are either best friends, brothers or lovers :scratch:

:secret:

Rodre Fegassi
10-19-2011, 05:45 PM
i think Sapeod and The Magician are either best friends, brothers or lovers :scratch:

:secret:

Or the same poster, just like I'm the same person as the guy you know as 'Saberg.'

Not.

But seriously, I am.

Not.

GOAT = Fed
10-19-2011, 05:47 PM
So in the OP's opinion, Djokovic has no weaknesses at all :spit:

Saberq
10-19-2011, 07:03 PM
So in the OP's opinion, Djokovic has no weaknesses at all :spit:

he has a bad haircut sometimes ......

Sham Kay
10-19-2011, 07:12 PM
Could improve his volleying too, if we're being picky.

MatchFederer
10-19-2011, 07:34 PM
Winning tactics.

Sapeod
10-20-2011, 12:18 AM
i think Sapeod and The Magician are either best friends, brothers or lovers :scratch:

:secret:
We both share the same opinions on the farce top 2 of the current era :wavey:

Naudio Spanlatine
10-20-2011, 12:25 AM
learn how to win a slam:devil:

learn how to not be a gangsta:singer:

learn how to miss relatively easy shots that are hilarious to watch:superlol:

learn how to stay in the top 3 or 2(even tho he might go back to 4:haha:

Topspindoctor
10-20-2011, 12:48 AM
He should stop pushing.

Saberq
10-20-2011, 01:06 AM
pray

Rodre Fegassi
10-20-2011, 09:23 AM
I'm willing to bet that either Djokovic or Nadal won't lose a single match in 2012. If Nadal wins the first final with Djokovic he won't lose a match, and vice versa if Djokovic clinches the first final of 2012 over Nadal.

oomph
10-20-2011, 11:07 AM
yeah his gameplan against Nadal is how to lose every single time when it counts

Yeah it's not like he pwned him 08 and 10. :lol:

Caesar1844
10-20-2011, 11:14 AM
I'm willing to bet that either Djokovic or Nadal won't lose a single match in 2012. If Nadal wins the first final with Djokovic he won't lose a match, and vice versa if Djokovic clinches the first final of 2012 over Nadal.
What are you willing to bet?

Rodre Fegassi
10-20-2011, 01:04 PM
What are you willing to bet?

Ok, gonna change my prediction a bit - I predict that from now until the end of their careers Nadal and Djokovic will only lose to each other in a slam.

Certainly no shock losses against 2nd tiers like Murray - Nadjokovic is a lock for every GS final until 2016 at least.

Caesar1844
10-20-2011, 01:10 PM
If you're wrong, will you bugger off from MTF so we don't have to read these asinine predictions any more?

Rodre Fegassi
10-20-2011, 01:28 PM
If you're wrong, will you bugger off from MTF so we don't have to read these asinine predictions any more?

No. And the prediction is hardly asinine - it's not exactly going out on a limb to suggest that Nadal and Djokovic are so far superior to the rest of the tour that they are unbeatable in slams.

Caesar1844
10-20-2011, 01:31 PM
If it's not asinine, why are you so afraid to stand behind it?

Naudio Spanlatine
10-20-2011, 03:33 PM
Or the same poster, just like I'm the same person as the guy you know as 'Saberg.'

Not.

But seriously, I am.

Not.
Dude they referred me as the same person as you

for two straight days :lol:

xdrewitdajx
10-20-2011, 04:26 PM
No. And the prediction is hardly asinine - it's not exactly going out on a limb to suggest that Nadal and Djokovic are so far superior to the rest of the tour that they are unbeatable in slams.

there were only 2 "nadjokovic" finals this year, out of 4.


You're silly

MuzzahLovah
10-20-2011, 04:58 PM
there were only 2 "nadjokovic" finals this year, out of 4.


You're silly

:haha:Really- how were they unbeatable? Djok lost to fed, and Nadal lost to Ferrer. Sometimes, there is really nothing to say about Rodre except he's silly.

NikolaBGD
10-20-2011, 06:53 PM
Yep, Murray just has to do what he usually does, get him out of his rhythm with variety, like he did in Cinci before Djokovic remembered he doesn't have have heart like Nadal to lose a 6-0 set.

Djokovic's forehand has been great this year, but that is all confidence and focus. With enough annoyance he can probably be brought to spray it on important points, which he loved doing against fed all those years.

Doesnt have heart to lose 6-0?! :spit:

You are a perfect example of blindlover tard...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQpKJYhjEcA

This is how it looks like when it matters the most:wavey:

MuzzahLovah
10-20-2011, 06:57 PM
Doesnt have heart to lose 6-0?! :spit:

You are a perfect example of blindlover tard...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQpKJYhjEcA

This is how it looks like when it matters the most:wavey:

Come on now, I like Djokovic, but he routinely retires when he's down, rather than being classy and finishing the match. What he did to Del Potro was just awful.

Roadmap
10-20-2011, 07:02 PM
Doesnt have heart to lose 6-0?! :spit:

You are a perfect example of blindlover tard...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQpKJYhjEcA

This is how it looks like when it matters the most:wavey:

Murray's movement was clearly hindered in that match :wavey: The Scot was struggling to get power from his legs :p Murray has won four of the last six meetings between himself and Djokovic :D

xdrewitdajx
10-20-2011, 07:17 PM
Come on now, I like Djokovic, but he routinely retires when he's down, rather than being classy and finishing the match. What he did to Del Potro was just awful.

there was only a single break difference in the match, a best of 5 match if you forgot. "What he did" to Del Potro? Pretty sure Del Potro would gladly have accepted that outcome before the start of the match.

xdrewitdajx
10-20-2011, 07:18 PM
and as for retiring when down....who routinely retires when up? There's a logical correlation there.

NikolaBGD
10-20-2011, 07:21 PM
Come on now, I like Djokovic, but he routinely retires when he's down, rather than being classy and finishing the match. What he did to Del Potro was just awful.

In 3 years he retired one in 2009, one in 2010(Krajinovic in Belgrade), this year it was final of Cincy and DC.

He was clearly injured, look that match again, better use final in Cincy 2008, 7-6 7-6, that means something...this year, it was crap, everybody saw it, but in a lack of important victories, you show that as something special:eek:

Where Muzza was in US Open SF...lost in space and time...

Vida
10-20-2011, 07:25 PM
fix second serve, improve 1st serve percentage, make more use of that forehand, be more aggressive... i guess all those things would help.

Sapeod
10-20-2011, 08:03 PM
fix second serve, improve 1st serve percentage, make more use of that forehand, be more aggressive... i guess all those things would help.
Help? If he fixed all of that, Djokovic wouldn't stand a chance. He was at Murray's mercy at Rome without any of that.

Saberq
10-20-2011, 08:17 PM
Help? If he fixed all of that, Djokovic wouldn't stand a chance. He was at Murray's mercy at Rome without any of that.

Djokovic was playing at 50% in the last set and still won ....LOL......

MatchFederer
10-20-2011, 08:25 PM
I personally thought it was approx. 57%, no?

Vida
10-20-2011, 08:28 PM
Help? If he fixed all of that, Djokovic wouldn't stand a chance. He was at Murray's mercy at Rome without any of that.

if he had all of that he would, indeed, be a formidable player.

Haelfix
10-20-2011, 08:34 PM
The biggest issue Murray has is that he loses literally every forehand to forehand exchange. He basically breaks even on the bh side, but Djoker has figured out that he can break Murray down (mentally and gamewise) by going fh to fh and so he quickly switches it up there.

Whats hard for Murray is to go down the line deep with his forehand. He has a tendency to drop that dtl fh short, and then Djokovic can step into the court and hit an aggressive bh and then its hard for Murray to come back into the point over the long haul (even with great defending).

One solution would be to junk ball a little bit more on the fh side (throw some fh slices or dropshots or perhaps loop a few to the middle of the court). The other solution would be to be even more aggressive on the bh side. To take it earlier and hit more angles with it, so that he doesn't have to hit as many fhs.

He could try to be more aggressive on the fh side, but that hasn't worked for him much this year. For instance, he basically lost to Rafa in Wimbledon b/c he massively overhit that shot.. Ditto against Nole at Melbourne.

Naudio Spanlatine
10-20-2011, 08:42 PM
The biggest issue Murray has is that he loses literally every forehand to forehand exchange. He basically breaks even on the bh side, but Djoker has figured out that he can break Murray down (mentally and gamewise) by going fh to fh and so he quickly switches it up there.

Whats hard for Murray is to go down the line deep with his forehand. He has a tendency to drop that dtl fh short, and then Djokovic can step into the court and hit an aggressive bh and then its hard for Murray to come back into the point over the long haul (even with great defending).

One solution would be to junk ball a little bit more on the fh side (throw some fh slices or dropshots or perhaps loop a few to the middle of the court). The other solution would be to be even more aggressive on the bh side. To take it earlier and hit more angles with it, so that he doesn't have to hit as many fhs.

He could try to be more aggressive on the fh side, but that hasn't worked for him much this year. For instance, he basically lost to Rafa in Wimbledon b/c he massively overhit that shot.. Ditto against Nole at Melbourne.

well said:worship: :worship: :worship:

i wish i wouldve said it like you did but i couldnt get enough words to formulate a paragraph like you did:o

MatchFederer
10-20-2011, 08:49 PM
He should be more and less aggressive on the BH side. By that I mean, rip it more and slice and funk it up more. He should change the angle of his attacks in the FH CC exchanges more to something more centralised. Then he can immediately go to work with his backhand in slicing it sharply to Nole's forehand or junking more often to his BH with jack-in-the-box ripping strikes.

...Take more rhythm away and change the landscape into something more resembling the Scottish Highlands.

Roadmap
10-20-2011, 08:52 PM
Murray just needs to use his superior footspeed, positional sense, return of serve, volleys, slice and backhand to full effect. If Murray moves well and plays with calmness then victory is assured.

Saberq
10-20-2011, 08:57 PM
Murray just needs to use his superior footspeed, positional sense, return of serve, volleys, slice and backhand to full effect. If Murray moves well and plays with calmness then victory is assured.

you are lost beyond belief .....

MatchFederer
10-20-2011, 09:02 PM
Murray just needs to use his superior footspeed, positional sense, return of serve and backhand to full effect. If Murray moves well and plays with calmness then victory is assured.

His positional sense is clearly inferior, given how easily he concedes ground by retreating from the baseline. The backhands are close. His footspeed might be superior -- his footwork style is more fussy perhaps -- but it doesn't make him a better mover. He relies more heavily on anticipation than Djokovic, which is why he recovers his position less easily (but also makes more miraculous plays based on anticipation).

This is something Federer struggles with as he wishes to react a lot of the time rather than anticipate and only recently has he started to anticipate early much more frequently, probably due to diminishing physical capabilities over the last couple of years. Back in the day he had the consistent explosiveness and stamina to react to attacks, even while not giving up baseline territory. This is just a testament to his outstanding physical capacities at the height of his powers.

Federer's awesome anticipation in his career history takes on a different form to Murray's in that the way he offensively dictated play allowed him to anticipate the likely rebuttals of the opponents. Defensively, Murray anticipates far earlier than the rest of the top 4 -- it's just his style. In part, this comes from having less weight of shot than the other 3, and then feeling more immediately as if you must be on the defensive.

Djokovic doesn't tend to anticipate in the same way as Murray, perhaps because he believes more in his ability to purely react to the offense which is thrown at him. Very rarely is he out of position and very rarely is he wrong-footed. The same goes for Nadal. Djokovic also moves with a much higher level of relaxation than Murray, who half the time looks incredibly highly strung, which might explain why he feels tightness and cramps fairly regularly in longer matches.

Naudio Spanlatine
10-20-2011, 09:10 PM
His positional sense is clearly inferior, given how easily he concedes ground by retreating from the baseline. The backhands are close. His footspeed might be superior -- his footwork style is more fussy perhaps -- but it doesn't make him a better mover. He relies more heavily on anticipation than Djokovic, which is why he recovers his position less easily (but also makes more miraculous plays based on anticipation).

This is something Federer struggles with as he wishes to react a lot of the time rather than anticipate and only recently has he started to anticipate early much more frequently, probably due to diminishing physical capabilities over the last couple of years. Back in the day he had the consistent explosiveness and stamina to react to attacks, even while not giving up baseline territory. This is just a testament to his outstanding physical capacities at the height of his powers.

Federer's awesome anticipation in his career history takes on a different form to Murray's in that the way he offensively dictated play allowed him to anticipate the likely rebuttals of the opponents. Defensively, Murray anticipates far earlier than the rest of the top 4 -- it's just his style.

Djokovic doesn't tend to anticipate in the same way as Murray, perhaps because he believes more in his ability to purely react to the offense which is thrown at him. Very rarely is he out of position and very rarely is he wrong-footed. The same goes for Nadal. Djokovic also moves with a much higher level of relaxation than Murray, who half the time looks incredibly highly strung, which might explain why he feels tightness and cramps fairly regularly in longer matches.

I agree with this whole statement

Murray seems to be very passive at times especially in slams, everytime he goes against Fed, Nole and Rafa in slams, he would play passive and mentally self-destruct which is very worrying if you ask me, for a guy who has alot of potential to win a slam, even in wimby, he gets sooooooooo much pressure from the whole country of england, and it will take a toll on him......thats why i think hes the most weakest player outta the top 4, he simply jus doesnt have the mental strength to do it in slams, maybe in other tournaments but not the slams, yes you can say that hes been in the finals ans semifinals of a slam, but hes still the weakest outta the top 4

Djokovic and Federer are the most relaxed movers when they retrieve shots, while Murray and Nadal tend to be more forceful on their movement when they struggle in-between points, Nadal actually the most forceful outta the whole 4, but what makes Nole Fed and Rafa hard for Andy to beat is their mental toughnest(especially in the slams), its proven that he somehow takes the loss very deeply and tends to give up on every point

Roadmap
10-20-2011, 09:11 PM
Clearly inferior positional sense? :spit: There is far more intelligence in Murrays movement. Djokovic moves like a headless chicken.

MatchFederer
10-20-2011, 09:14 PM
Clearly inferior positional sense? :spit: There is far more intelligence in Murrays movement. Djokovic moves like a headless chicken.

You're losing some EPIC ((meal time) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9FRSghXhDM)) credibility. Djokovic's court sense has always been exceptional (and Murray's has always been excellent too), but right now this is a flawless victory to Djokovic, who almost never sees himself out of position and doesn't have to rely on premature anticipatory tactics.

Perhaps you are blinded my nationalism. You are British, right? Then again, so am I, yet I have no problems in telling things as they actually are.

I'll take you under my wing, son.

Sapeod
10-20-2011, 09:18 PM
Djokovic was playing at 50% in the last set and still won ....LOL......
Wrong. Murray was all over him in both the 2nd and final set. Djokovic was the same as the 1st set, Murray just played better and was owning him. But of course, then the choke came and Murray threw the match away and gave it to Djokovic. Djokovic was very lucky that day.

Naudio Spanlatine
10-20-2011, 09:20 PM
thats why hes the weakest of the top 4 when it comes to being up a break or a set against fed, rafa, nole

Roadmap
10-20-2011, 09:21 PM
Fakervic leaves angles aplenty open to his opponent. Eggovic does not have a comparable understanding of which angles he has to cover and which angles he can afford to leave open. A clear victory for Murray.

MatchFederer
10-20-2011, 09:24 PM
Fakervic leaves angles aplenty open to his opponent. Eggovic does not have a comparable understanding of which angles he has to cover and and which angles he can afford to leave open. A clear victory for Murray.

Djokovic covers his gaps, Murray doesn't as well because he wants to play 2 metres behind the baseline. Their levels of court 'sense' is approx. equal, but their mentalities mean that Djokovic overall has superior movement. He's also probably the superior athlete.

Vida
10-20-2011, 09:27 PM
Djokovic covers his gaps, Murray doesn't as well because he wants to play 2 metres behind the baseline. Their levels of court 'sense' is approx. equal, but their mentalities mean that Djokovic overall has superior movement. He's also probably the superior athlete.

measured in light years.

Roadmap
10-20-2011, 09:30 PM
No Vida. Murray is taking over the rivalry (4 wins in their last 6 clashes) with his superior movement.

Roadmap
10-20-2011, 09:31 PM
Murray does not play as far back as you seem to think.

Roadmap
10-20-2011, 09:33 PM
You talk about Faker as if he is some kind of attacking player. He is not.

Saberq
10-20-2011, 09:35 PM
Roadmap is a double account ....

Roadmap
10-20-2011, 09:37 PM
Saberq is a double account ....

Roadmap
10-20-2011, 09:39 PM
They are both great movers. Murray is just better though with the way he combines his quick feet with a quick brain.

Sapeod
10-20-2011, 10:00 PM
thats why hes the weakest of the top 4 when it comes to being up a break or a set against fed, rafa, nole
If he were to ever overcome his slight mental weakness, then the rest of the top 4 wouldn't stand a chance. If I were you, I'd hope he'd stay mentally weak for Nadal's sake.

Saberq
10-20-2011, 10:03 PM
If he were to ever overcome his slight mental weakness, then the rest of the top 4 wouldn't stand a chance. If I were you, I'd hope he'd stay mentally weak for Nadal's sake.

first of all it's not slight and that's not his only problem.....his FH is weaker than any of the Top 4,he doesnt move as well as Novak or Rafa his defense to offense is awful ect...

Naudio Spanlatine
10-21-2011, 02:04 AM
If he were to ever overcome his slight mental weakness, then the rest of the top 4 wouldn't stand a chance. If I were you, I'd hope he'd stay mentally weak for Nadal's sake.

but if you see how murray plays against those three he pressures himself alot which means his game falls apart and he become more likely passive and he jus explodes like crazy, im jus worried that he doesnt know how to play consistantly well in every tournament not jus slams

Rodre Fegassi
10-21-2011, 09:31 AM
His positional sense is clearly inferior, given how easily he concedes ground by retreating from the baseline. The backhands are close. His footspeed might be superior -- his footwork style is more fussy perhaps -- but it doesn't make him a better mover. He relies more heavily on anticipation than Djokovic, which is why he recovers his position less easily (but also makes more miraculous plays based on anticipation).

This is something Federer struggles with as he wishes to react a lot of the time rather than anticipate and only recently has he started to anticipate early much more frequently, probably due to diminishing physical capabilities over the last couple of years. Back in the day he had the consistent explosiveness and stamina to react to attacks, even while not giving up baseline territory. This is just a testament to his outstanding physical capacities at the height of his powers.

Federer's awesome anticipation in his career history takes on a different form to Murray's in that the way he offensively dictated play allowed him to anticipate the likely rebuttals of the opponents. Defensively, Murray anticipates far earlier than the rest of the top 4 -- it's just his style. In part, this comes from having less weight of shot than the other 3, and then feeling more immediately as if you must be on the defensive.

Djokovic doesn't tend to anticipate in the same way as Murray, perhaps because he believes more in his ability to purely react to the offense which is thrown at him. Very rarely is he out of position and very rarely is he wrong-footed. The same goes for Nadal. Djokovic also moves with a much higher level of relaxation than Murray, who half the time looks incredibly highly strung, which might explain why he feels tightness and cramps fairly regularly in longer matches.

Look, I hate Murray as much as you, but you're doing your credibility no favors here.

How can Murray have weaker 'court positioning sense' when you claim he has stronger anticipation than Djokovic?

Strong anticipation is the pinnacle of good court positioning. If you are astute enough to know where your opponent will hit to based on observing his preferences, tendencies, strengths and weaknesses and move yourself into that space - how is that not demonstrating good court positioning and all-round tennis intelligence?

We can just say that Djokovic is the better mover AND has better court positioning AND better anticipation (and a better backhand, forehand, volleys, 1st and 2nd serve, movement, touch, drop-shots, tactics, mentality, return of serve, slice...etc...)

Seriously, I'm looking forward to how badly Murray will get smashed by Djokovic if hey ever meet in a slam again. If Djokovic is smashing Nadal at the moment, and Nadal is smashing Murray, imagine how crippled Murray will be if Djokovic smashes Murray directly.

sexybeast
10-21-2011, 09:47 AM
1.Use variety, use the aggressive slice, use the dropshot, go to the net, serve and volley, take Djokovic to net, destroy the baseline rythm and so on (watch Federer play Djokovic)....
2.Aggressive forehands when he gets the oppurtunity, go for it even if it emans some mistakes. Djokovic wont miss and lose patience in long rallies that Murray likes to torture other players with some success, including Federer in small tournaments.
3.Attack Djokovic's serve, I have seen Murray do it against Federer's superior serve with more success than against Djokovic.
4.Be even more aggressive on important points, serve and volley if needed on own serve and just attack the serve and keep it short on break points. Djokovic will overall be better than Murray in the mental department just like against any player on tourbut if Murray just keeps it short the advantage will be lesser for Djokovic.

Nadal cant slice, cant dropshot, cant go to the net, cant be more aggressive than Djokovic like Murray can so Murray has alot more options against Djokovic and he shouls use them! Nadal has pretty much only the hope that Djokovic's level eventually goes down and he starts to make stupid mistakes again or get that miracle serve he had in Usopen 2010 (dont think even that would work against this Djokovic), but Murray has so much variety and potential he could work out some great strategies against Djokovic.

Roadmap
10-21-2011, 09:55 AM
Murray has the Indian sign over Djokovic. Murray knows it. Djokovic knows it. I know it. Rodre Fegassi knows it. Four wins out of six and it should have been five wins out of six :wavey:

Roadmap
10-21-2011, 10:00 AM
If they meet in Paris and the 02 arena it will be six wins out of eight and Djokovic will struggle to get Murray out of his head. That is why it was important for Murray to beat Nadal in Japan to bring back some confidence for himself in that rivalry. At this moment in time Djokovic does not know where his next victory against Murray is coming from :shrug:

Saberq
10-21-2011, 10:48 AM
If they meet in Paris and the 02 arena it will be six wins out of eight and Djokovic will struggle to get Murray out of his head. That is why it was important for Murray to beat Nadal in Japan to bring back some confidence for himself in that rivalry. At this moment in time Djokovic does not know where his next victory against Murray is coming from :shrug:

tell me something ....why do you drink when it clearly affects you?

Roadmap
10-21-2011, 10:49 AM
I am not drunk right now.