Murray soon to be #2? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Murray soon to be #2?

Sapeod
10-14-2011, 06:11 PM
After he wins Shanghai, he will have 7200 points from this year, with Paris and WTF left in this schedule.

Nadal has around 9200 points from this year, so he's only 2000 points ahead of Murray. Nadal has A LOT of points to defend next year, so can Murray perhaps overatek him sometime next year? He's not very far behind Nadal when it comes to the race, and he's likely to do better in Paris too. Andy has 3 1st round losses in a row after his Australian Open final, so he can get A LOT of points from there. If Nadal's form continues to drop, I see Murray taking the #2 spot next year sometime, most likely after Indian Wells/Miami.

Anyone agree?

MuzzahLovah
10-14-2011, 06:13 PM
Please stop jinxing Murray. :sad:

Swiss_Bagels17
10-14-2011, 06:13 PM
Federer will be Number 2.

End of thread. :)

GSMnadal
10-14-2011, 06:15 PM
Murray better stop losing to him in slams if he wants to be above him... heck, he needs to start winning slams :spit:

Horatio Caine
10-14-2011, 06:16 PM
You've been reading the Race thread. ;) :lol:

Totally agree. But, as I said in my thread, he could really do with winning that elusive first Slam, otherwise he will be a male version of Wozniacki, Safina etc.

He was also talking of playing Basel or Valencia, so that could considerably boost his chances of actually finishing the year as the world #2. :eek: He'd need Nadal to fall relatively early in Paris (possible if the surface plays as fast as last year), and probably to fall in the group stages of WTF. Also possible, but less likely.

Sapeod
10-14-2011, 06:16 PM
Please stop jinxing Murray. :sad:
No such thing :wavey:

I'm jst saying Andy has a chance at #2. In fact, he has a really good chance. NO points to defend in Rotterdam/Indian Wells/Miami. If you don't like that, then that's too bad :wavey:

Swiss_Bagels17
10-14-2011, 06:18 PM
Murray better stop losing to him in slams if he wants to be above him... heck, he needs to start winning slams :spit:

I dread the thought of Wozniacki and Murray both being Number 1 at the same time without winning a Grand Slam. :o

Sapeod
10-14-2011, 06:18 PM
You've been reading the Race thread. ;) :lol:

Totally agree. But, as I said in my thread, he could really do with winning that elusive first Slam, otherwise he will be a male version of Wozniacki, Safina etc.

He was also talking of playing Basel or Valencia, so that could considerably boost his chances of actually finishing the year as the world #2. :eek: He'd need Nadal to fall relatively early in Paris (possible if the surface plays as fast as last year), and probably to fall in the group stages of WTF. Also possible, but less likely.
There's a website that has a live race, updated every time a match has ended - http://live-tennis.eu/race It's handy :)

I heard he was palying Valencia, but I'm not sure.

Black Adam
10-14-2011, 06:20 PM
Murray is an almost player. That's all.

StoGas
10-14-2011, 06:20 PM
Federer will be Number 2.

End of thread. :)

That's not true^. Murray can reach number two, but he needs to defend his AO points :unsure:

Sapeod
10-14-2011, 06:21 PM
To be very honest, only a slam win is stopping Murray from being ahead of Nadal in the rankings.

merryploughbhoy
10-14-2011, 06:24 PM
I dread the thought of Wozniacki and Murray both being Number 1 at the same time without winning a Grand Slam. :o

Both will become number one's and go on to win slams, best players who play this sport...

GSMnadal
10-14-2011, 06:25 PM
To be very honest, only a slam win is stopping Murray from being ahead of Nadal in the rankings.

And the fact that Nadal has two finals (apart from his win) against Murray's one, and that Nadal has 4 masters finals against Andy's 0 (not including the one they won)

But yes, apart from that, only the slam win is keeping Murray under

MuzzahLovah
10-14-2011, 06:27 PM
No such thing :wavey:

I'm jst saying Andy has a chance at #2. In fact, he has a really good chance. NO points to defend in Rotterdam/Indian Wells/Miami. If you don't like that, then that's too bad :wavey:

I mean, just wait until after Shanghai to start counting the points- only two more days. And he has several thousand points to win before he can get close to Nadal in the YTD rankings, and honestly, I think overtaking Nadal before winning a slam would just put added pressure on Muzzah, to his detriment.

Filo V.
10-14-2011, 06:27 PM
The Murray hype machine is on full blast it seems.

Sapeod
10-14-2011, 06:28 PM
Both will become number one's and go on to win slams, best players who play this sport...
Correct.
And the fact that Nadal has two finals (apart from his win) against Murray's one, and that Nadal has 4 masters finals against Andy's 0 (not including the one they won)

But yes, apart from that, only the slam win is keeping Murray under
Look at the race - http://live-tennis.eu/race

When Murray wins Shanghai, he'll only be around 2000 points behind Nadal in it. That equals 1 slams.

MuzzahLovah
10-14-2011, 06:30 PM
When he starts having proper draws in events then he can maybe justify his points haul

I mean Bye, Walkover Ebden and Nishikori all in the same Masters event :lol::lol:

Yes, but at the 500 last week he had Baghdatis first round, Nalbandian, Ferrer and Nadal- a pretty tough draw for a 500, so I think it balances out.

GSMnadal
10-14-2011, 06:32 PM
Correct.

Look at the race - http://live-tennis.eu/race

When Murray wins Shanghai, he'll only be around 2000 points behind Nadal in it. That equals 1 slams.

Okay, so in which slam does Andy have 0 points to defend so he can gain 2000 by winning one?

merryploughbhoy
10-14-2011, 06:32 PM
To be very honest, only a slam win is stopping Murray from being ahead of Nadal in the rankings.

Correct, Its a matter of time before Murray gets this break threw slam, then he will have the momentum. If he beats nadal at a GS then he gets the points off nadal and it will be a hammer blow to nadals confidence, he'll go back to competing with federer, but not for no.1, for no 3... Once murray ousts nadal from no.2 it will be good times ahead for him, this is on the brink of happening, should be a good 2012 for murray.

merryploughbhoy
10-14-2011, 06:34 PM
Okay, so in which slam does Andy have 0 points to defend so he can gain 2000 by winning one?

Well, what could happen is nadal draws mayer in round 1 or 2 at a slam, then, well, you know what...

Ibracadabra
10-14-2011, 06:34 PM
murray wont defend final points in austrailia so no.

Sapeod
10-14-2011, 06:34 PM
Okay, so in which slam does Andy have 0 points to defend so he can gain 2000 by winning one?
That's not what I meant. I'm just saying the amount of points equals a slam, no need to be a smartass :wavey:

Murray can gain over 1000 at any of the slams next year except for the Australian Open where he can gain just under than amount. If he wins the Australian Open, he'll finally get the pressure off him and then there's 0 points to defend until the clay season. Nadal better hope Murray doesn't win that slam, or else he's in trouble.

Ibracadabra
10-14-2011, 06:36 PM
Del potro will be back in the top 4 so he will displace andy as he done last year and andy dropped to 5 where he belongs.

scoobs
10-14-2011, 06:37 PM
After he wins Shanghai, he will have 7200 points from this year, with Paris and WTF left in this schedule.

Nadal has around 9200 points from this year, so he's only 2000 points ahead of Murray. Nadal has A LOT of points to defend next year, so can Murray perhaps overatek him sometime next year? He's not very far behind Nadal when it comes to the race, and he's likely to do better in Paris too. Andy has 3 1st round losses in a row after his Australian Open final, so he can get A LOT of points from there. If Nadal's form continues to drop, I see Murray taking the #2 spot next year sometime, most likely after Indian Wells/Miami.

Anyone agree?

Nadal will have 9200 at least to defend next year.

Murray will have at least 7200 to defend next year if he wins Shanghai.

You have to defend your points from last year - that's kinda how it works :lol:

Murray's only going to overtake Nadal if Nadal maintains his points next year but Andy

1) wins a slam

OR

2) does MUCH better at IW and Miami next year - W and F for example

More likely it requires Nadal to have a worse year than he has this year, which in many respects has been a mediocre year - 3 slam finals, yes, but only winning one of them, and losing a lot of finals elsewhere, and a very mediocre fall season.

But he might not. He might have a 2010 sort of year again in 2012. Who knows?

Time Violation
10-14-2011, 06:39 PM
After he wins Shanghai, he will have 7200 points from this year, with Paris and WTF left in this schedule.

Nadal has around 9200 points from this year, so he's only 2000 points ahead of Murray. Nadal has A LOT of points to defend next year, so can Murray perhaps overatek him sometime next year? He's not very far behind Nadal when it comes to the race, and he's likely to do better in Paris too. Andy has 3 1st round losses in a row after his Australian Open final, so he can get A LOT of points from there. If Nadal's form continues to drop, I see Murray taking the #2 spot next year sometime, most likely after Indian Wells/Miami.

Anyone agree?

He still hasn't even won SF of Shanghai, your really are obnoxious, poor Murray deserves better fan on this board :smash:

Back on topic - unless Andy wins MTF, it's not going to be easy. He has to defend final at AO, while Nadal could even gain some points. Andy has good chance at IW/Miami, but it could not be enough if Nadal gets decent results there, and then the clay season comes where Nadal is always in much better position than anyone else.

Bottom line, if Nadal keeps being consistent like he was this year, Murray will almost have to replicate what Nole did this year in order to pass him. There is also Fed who could get loads of points, since he doesn't have to defend much almost until FO.

Yolita
10-14-2011, 06:46 PM
Murray's doing really well at the moment. But let's not extrapolate his results here to next year. In this tournament he's faced players ranked 41, 19, 124, 47. He's bound to look good. To make the final of a Masters 1000 event facing players ranked an average of 58 is very lucky. Not his fault, of course. You can only play whoever is across the net.

Just don't get overexcited, it always happens to Murray. A few titles, a few good wins, people go crazy, unbelievable hype, he then disappoints and everybody hates him. Poor Andy. Let him be. He's doing just fine. :D

Egreen
10-14-2011, 06:46 PM
Will happen in 2012 for sure.

Nadal can't win titles outside of clay anymore.

Most of the season is played on hc which is Murray's best surface and where he is able to win titles, unlike Nadal.

Next year, I think Djokovic will win 2 slams, Nadal will win 1 slam and Murray will win 1 slam.

blank_frackis
10-14-2011, 06:48 PM
Back on topic - unless Andy wins MTF, it's not going to be easy. He has to defend final at AO, while Nadal could even gain some points. Andy has good chance at IW/Miami, but it could not be enough if Nadal gets decent results there, and then the clay season comes where Nadal is always in much better position than anyone else.

Bottom line, if Nadal keeps being consistent like he was this year, Murray will almost have to replicate what Nole did this year in order to pass him. There is also Fed who could get loads of points, since he doesn't have to defend much almost until FO.

Tend to agree, though I do think Murray will be number three for the foreseeable future.

scoobs
10-14-2011, 06:52 PM
Murray's doing really well at the moment. But let's not extrapolate his results here to next year. In this tournament he's faced players ranked 41, 19, 124, 47. He's bound to look good. To make the final of a Masters 1000 event facing players ranked an average of 58 is very lucky. Not his fault, of course. You can only play whoever is across the net.

Just don't get overexcited, it always happens to Murray. A few titles, a few good wins, people go crazy, unbelievable hype, he then disappoints and everybody hates him. Poor Andy. Let him be. He's doing just fine. :D

Quoted for truth.

Saberq
10-14-2011, 06:55 PM
Yes it can happen if he plays great after AO and Nadal doesnt ...also Nadal has only QF in AO to defend and Murray has a final so if Nadal wins AO he wont be 2 for a time being ...also Murray is playing mediocre even now but his opponents are a joke.....

Saberq
10-14-2011, 06:59 PM
Both will become number one's and go on to win slams, best players who play this sport...

She is not the best player in womens tennis and Murray LOL ...he is not the best player in mens tennis..........Murray lost to ever solid player this year......EVERY SINGLE ONE

EddieNero
10-14-2011, 07:02 PM
Nadal will have 9200 at least to defend next year.

Murray will have at least 7200 to defend next year if he wins Shanghai.

You have to defend your points from last year - that's kinda how it works :lol:

Murray's only going to overtake Nadal if Nadal maintains his points next year but Andy

1) wins a slam

OR

2) does MUCH better at IW and Miami next year - W and F for example

More likely it requires Nadal to have a worse year than he has this year, which in many respects has been a mediocre year - 3 slam finals, yes, but only winning one of th iem, and losing a lot of finals elsewhere, and a very mediocre fall season.

But he might not. He might have a 2010 sort of year again in 2012. Who knows?

Nadal is not Federer, reaching 3 consecutive grand slam finals is a massive results for him, whatever the result( in the final).
Rafa made more finals in 2011 than in his prime seasons(2008,2010), and lost 6/7 of them to one player, so talking about Nadal's mediocre year is pure bullshit.
And what's most important, Nadal is NEVER the first pick for GS title outside clay, apart from some ridicilous "experts" predictions.

merryploughbhoy
10-14-2011, 07:03 PM
She is not the best player in womens tennis and Murray LOL ...he is not the best player in mens tennis..........Murray lost to ever solid player this year......EVERY SINGLE ONE

She is the best looking player in womens tennis, thats the only time i watch it other than when betting. For me murray is'nt currently the best but can be, has novak always been the best player in mens tennis? that didnt stop him from being the current best.

LawrenceOfTennis
10-14-2011, 07:05 PM
Possible but would be a shame. The guy who is definetely not slam material (so far...) should not be top 3.

Sapeod
10-14-2011, 07:05 PM
Del potro will be back in the top 4 so he will displace andy as he done last year and andy dropped to 5 where he belongs.
Right, because he'll fall from #3 to #5 when Del Potro somehow overtakes him. Dropping 2 places when 1 player overtakes you. That's quite a skill :lol:

Del Potro is not overtaking Murray in a LONG TIME :wavey:

Saberq
10-14-2011, 07:09 PM
She is the best looking player in womens tennis, thats the only time i watch it other than when betting. For me murray is'nt currently the best but can be, has novak always been the best player in mens tennis? that didnt stop him from being the current best.

I agree on both counts but you forget 1 thing my friend....Did Murray have talent to be the best player?YES...Will he dominate?NO ..Not just because I think so it's because his game his mentality is not suited for domination....Look at Nadal,Federer and Novak at their peak all 3 of them are the best in something Murray doesnt have one single part of his game that is the best in mens tennis.....FH is a joke BH great but Novak's is a lot better...Return of serve great but Novak's is a lot better...Movement great,Rafa and Novak move better,Creativity great,Federer is better at it....Can Murray win a Slam?YES...Can he beat 2 out of TOP 3?NO

LawrenceOfTennis
10-14-2011, 07:10 PM
Right, because he'll fall from #3 to #5 when Del Potro somehow overtakes him. Dropping 2 places when 1 player overtakes you. That's quite a skill :lol:

Del Potro is not overtaking Murray in a LONG TIME :wavey:

Murray has been lucky enough being injury-free. Had Delpo played 2010 he would have been in Murray's place at least. Rather in top 3.
But okay it's woulda coulda category. I just hope Delpo will overtake Murray sooner or later.

Saberq
10-14-2011, 07:10 PM
Right, because he'll fall from #3 to #5 when Del Potro somehow overtakes him. Dropping 2 places when 1 player overtakes you. That's quite a skill :lol:

Del Potro is not overtaking Murray in a LONG TIME :wavey:

This I agree on ....Murray's game even though not as powerful as Del Potro's has more layers that will keep him on top

Ibracadabra
10-14-2011, 07:11 PM
Del potro overtook murray barely playing tennis for four months. Imagine what he can do when fit ;)

Saberq
10-14-2011, 07:12 PM
Murray has been lucky enough being injury-free. Had Delpo played 2010 he would have been in Murray's place at least. Rather in top 3.
But okay it's woulda coulda category. I just hope Delpo will overtake Murray sooner or later.

I wish Delpo all the best but I dont see that happening because of his injury I hope I am wrong ...he is a nice kid and a born champion

MuzzahLovah
10-14-2011, 07:15 PM
Murray has been lucky enough being injury-free. Had Delpo played 2010 he would have been in Murray's place at least. Rather in top 3.
But okay it's woulda coulda category. I just hope Delpo will overtake Murray sooner or later.

Del Po isn't injured now as far as I can tell and hasn't been for a while. That didn't stop him from losing to Simon and skipping the entire Asian swing for no reason. He had every opportunity to win Kuala Lumpur and Beijing, and make the finals of Shanghai, but he was a no show. He simply isn't consistent enough to overtake Murray, and I don't see that changing.

tribalfusion
10-14-2011, 07:16 PM
Del potro overtook murray barely playing tennis for four months. Imagine what he can do when fit ;)

So in this world of yours in which Del Potro can do anything, when is it that you will finally say he is healthy?

How many more years from now will that be?

Roadmap
10-14-2011, 07:17 PM
Fakers backhand better than Murray's backhand? :haha: No chance. Murray's is the better shot with the better disguise. It is just that Andy is sometimes hesitant to use it. Murray's backhand is second only to Federer's forehand from an aesthetic point of view.

Rodre Fegassi
10-14-2011, 07:18 PM
I agree on both counts but you forget 1 thing my friend....Did Murray have talent to be the best player?YES...Will he dominate?NO ..Not just because I think so it's because his game his mentality is not suited for domination....Look at Nadal,Federer and Novak at their peak all 3 of them are the best in something Murray doesnt have one single part of his game that is the best in mens tennis.....FH is a joke BH great but Novak's is a lot better...Return of serve great but Novak's is a lot better...Movement great,Rafa and Novak move better,Creativity great,Federer is better at it....Can Murray win a Slam?YES...Can he beat 2 out of TOP 3?NO

You are gonna look like a mug when Murray retires in 2 years or so without even a single more GS final to his name. He can't beat any top 3 player when it matters. It's down to physical and technical weakness, nothing to do with 'mentality.'

The kid (although he is old now) is totally over-rated, and there are at least a dozen more players who have an actual forehand who deserve to be ranked number 4 in the world over him.

Murray becoming number 3 in the world shows that the ranking system is severely flawed and should allow players who accomplished greatness and multiple slams in the past to rest on their laurels more.

EddceLLent
10-14-2011, 07:21 PM
For all those comparing Murray to Wozniacki - i'm pretty sure that Murray himself would feel that being #1 in the rankings would be meaningless if he hadn't won a slam. It's ironic that of the two, Murray has had the more successful career yet it's Wozniacki who's got to #1.

Roadmap
10-14-2011, 07:21 PM
Fuckwit alert. Fuckwit alert.

The Magician
10-14-2011, 07:30 PM
He's in a great position because Nadull has a million points to defend but no confidence to defend them since they are all from lost finals. Federer is way to inconsistent in non-slam events, and I doubt he cares very much about that. Fakervic won't defend a fraction of his points, so if Murray wins a slam he could challenge for #1. Judio is right that he's gotten very kind draws this year so it's difficult to tell if he's playing better or worse than last year, but if he beats Nadull in the SF of the AO and beats Fed in the final I'll be happy with Murray at the top :yeah:

merryploughbhoy
10-14-2011, 07:30 PM
For all those comparing Murray to Wozniacki - i'm pretty sure that Murray himself would feel that being #1 in the rankings would be meaningless if he hadn't won a slam. It's ironic that of the two, Murray has had the more successful career yet it's Wozniacki who's got to #1.

Its because in mens tennis there is the top 3 ahead of murray which is very tough, its the stongest era in pro tennis. In womens tennis, Wozniacki dominates more consistantly threw out the year (outside slams) The williams brothers have thankfully been away for a while, leaving a weak pool of players with even ability fighting for no.2 She will get her slam, she's still young...

SetSampras
10-14-2011, 07:31 PM
Oh god.. A ZERO time slam winner at #2 in the world. Muggage.. Pure fucking muggage

philosophicalarf
10-14-2011, 07:35 PM
Might happen after Miami. From now till then, Murray defends 1845, Nadal defends 2560 (Murray's points being 400 WTF, 180 Paris, 1200 Aus, and a grand total of 65pts from three other 500s and two masters).

Kinda depends how Murray finishes the season - if he carries current form into Paris, he could well win that also, then it'll be tight.

This is only one point in the season though. Longer term Nadal will always pick up more points because of clay, although the gap has closed since Djoko has begun hoovering the titles.

Time Violation
10-14-2011, 07:45 PM
He's in a great position because Nadull has a million points to defend but no confidence to defend them since they are all from lost finals. Federer is way to inconsistent in non-slam events, and I doubt he cares very much about that. Fakervic won't defend a fraction of his points, so if Murray wins a slam he could challenge for #1. Judio is right that he's gotten very kind draws this year so it's difficult to tell if he's playing better or worse than last year, but if he beats Nadull in the SF of the AO and beats Fed in the final I'll be happy with Murray at the top :yeah:

I don't think one slam is going to be enough; Nole, Fed and Nadal would really have to screw it up royally for Murray to pass them all with a slam. :)

Johnny Groove
10-14-2011, 07:47 PM
Muzzniaki.

hiperborejac
10-14-2011, 07:48 PM
Please stop jinxing Murray. :sad:

Sapeod is Simon Reed's grandson

MuzzahLovah
10-14-2011, 07:50 PM
I don't think one slam is going to be enough; Nole, Fed and Nadal would really have to screw it up royally for Murray to pass them all with a slam. :)

Honestly, with Nadal's current body language now, I can see him losing to Murray on clay- and I don't see how Nadal beats Djokovic, even on clay. Nadal seems to be spiraling.

Sapeod
10-14-2011, 07:56 PM
Muzzniaki.
How is Murray comparable to Wozniacki? Murray's game probably has the most variety of any player that's played in the decade, behind Federer's. In fact, it's on par with Federer's. Federer is just an overall better player at his best.

Wozniacki's game is good, but Murray's game far surpasses hers.

Johnny Groove
10-14-2011, 08:00 PM
How is Murray comparable to Wozniacki? Murray's game probably has the most variety of any player that's played in the decade, behind Federer's. In fact, it's on par with Federer's. Federer is just an overall better player at his best.

Wozniacki's game is good, but Murray's game far surpasses hers.

Slamless.

rocketassist
10-14-2011, 08:02 PM
The sooner he gets there the better. Djokovic-Nadal tournament and GS finals need to end.

finishingmove
10-14-2011, 08:03 PM
There is no sign yet that Rafa is declining this much

Super Djoker
10-14-2011, 08:09 PM
The Year is winding down , Murray as WN 2? Maybe , u can,t honestly expect Nadal not to come back next year and the little matter of Federer, Murray is taking advantage of Players like Fed and Djokovic going missing! If Djokovic or Fed where there I wouldent see Murray winning Shanghai or The China Open! Nadal and Djokovic have played a lot and Murray has had a cluster of early exits so he is fresher than Nadal and Novak! Fed Novak Nadal have injury,s but Murray having had his bad patches is Fresher as he has had longer breakes! I.E. not playing match after match week after week! Murray played and lost 3 matches after the AO! Djokovic played and won 17! You can,t say there isent a difference in terms of freshness when 1 guy plays 3 matches and 1 plays 17!

Sapeod
10-14-2011, 08:10 PM
Slamless.
Just becuase they both don't have slams? Should I call Berdych Berdniacki now? :stupid:

Matt01
10-14-2011, 08:18 PM
To be very honest, only a slam win is stopping Murray from being ahead of Nadal in the rankings.


"Only"? :superlol: If that is all, he should get to #2 easily and quickly.

Stop trolling please. Murray is a great player but you are his worst fan.

Sonja1989
10-14-2011, 08:26 PM
I think Rafa will be great enough for no 2 but Murray can be third of course... Anyway I really hope Andy wins something slam finally, it's the time for it. Then we will see but I don't give too lot of chance for it.

mooncreek
10-14-2011, 08:33 PM
Yes, he does have a chance. The time it'd take place is likely in March, with those hard court 1000. Those two tournaments could make Murray #2 - Rafa made both finals, Andy lost both matches played this year so a lot of points on the table. The thing is I don't think Murray will have the same run on the clay he did this year (there were some really fortunate draws).

Now if Murray wins WTF or Australian Open, totally different story. He'd actually be worthy of being #2!

NikolaBGD
10-14-2011, 08:40 PM
Whole year he cant beat any significant match, won 1 Masters when Nole was injured, beat spent Rafa in Tokyo, have a kind draw in tournament where Nole and Fed dont participate...and suddenly hype like Muzza is young player, like he didn't makes same thing every year - won insignificant tournaments, and fold when it matters the most.

Some folks never learn, he is a not slam material, he played better in the end of 2008, and need to have a lot of luck to win only one major.

I understand deluded Sapeod, no cure for him, but many others to jump in his bandwagon after winning MM tournaments...:eek:

Saberq
10-14-2011, 09:15 PM
Fakers backhand better than Murray's backhand? :haha: No chance. Murray's is the better shot with the better disguise. It is just that Andy is sometimes hesitant to use it. Murray's backhand is second only to Federer's forehand from an aesthetic point of view.

Quiet you British mug

The sooner he gets there the better. Djokovic-Nadal tournament and GS finals need to end.

Murray in GS finals is a joke

Just becuase they both don't have slams? Should I call Berdych Berdniacki now? :stupid:

Name me one player without a Slam in tennis history with so much hype ?

merryploughbhoy
10-14-2011, 09:31 PM
Whole year he cant beat any significant match, won 1 Masters when Nole was injured, beat spent Rafa in Tokyo, have a kind draw in tournament where Nole and Fed dont participate...and suddenly hype like Muzza is young player, like he didn't makes same thing every year - won insignificant tournaments, and fold when it matters the most.

Some folks never learn, he is a not slam material, he played better in the end of 2008, and need to have a lot of luck to win only one major.

I understand deluded Sapeod, no cure for him, but many others to jump in his bandwagon after winning MM tournaments...:eek:

The difference is Murray is improving while Federer and Nadal are diminishing. When Murray was folding it was against these two when in their prime when he was'nt at his, now he is reaching his prime. In years gone by when it was RF and nadal, you didnt see them look as vunerable to lesser opposition as they do now. And stop this myth about Murray only winning mickey mouse tournaments, the way some folk on here go on its as if tennis is only played four times a year.

Rodre Fegassi
10-14-2011, 09:43 PM
The difference is Murray is improving while Federer and Nadal are diminishing. When Murray was folding it was against these two when in their prime when he was'nt at his, now he is reaching his prime. In years gone by when it was RF and nadal, you didnt see them look as vunerable to lesser opposition as they do now. And stop this myth about Murray only winning mickey mouse tournaments, the way some folk on here go on its as if tennis is only played four times a year.

Yeh, that's the truth. Meaningful, tennis, anyway.

And a lot of British fans actually don't know there are 3 other grand slams, and they think that tennis is an annual event.

LawrenceOfTennis
10-14-2011, 09:56 PM
Del Po isn't injured now as far as I can tell and hasn't been for a while. That didn't stop him from losing to Simon and skipping the entire Asian swing for no reason. He had every opportunity to win Kuala Lumpur and Beijing, and make the finals of Shanghai, but he was a no show. He simply isn't consistent enough to overtake Murray, and I don't see that changing.

I agree. Skipping the asian swing was a stupid move. No words.
He skipped it to rest for the DC, while the furious Nalbandian back to bad form again and will fuck up the DC final for sure.

Ben.
10-14-2011, 10:03 PM
I can't see Nadal or Federer being consistant enough next year if Murray can amass a similar points total as it looks like he is going to this year. Then again, each of the last three years have seen big swings at the top of the game that no one would have predicted. It would be nice to see a few guys in really good form for an extended period of time.

delboy
10-14-2011, 10:10 PM
Yeh, that's the truth. Meaningful, tennis, anyway.

And a lot of British fans actually don't know there are 3 other grand slams, and they think that tennis is an annual event.

I don't know about that :lol: But alot of casual fans do think Wimbledon is the only event that means anything

MuzzahLovah
10-14-2011, 10:13 PM
I agree. Skipping the asian swing was a stupid move. No words.
He skipped it to rest for the DC, while the furious Nalbandian back to bad form again and will fuck up the DC final for sure.

And I understand resting for DC, but he's playing like all the European hardcourts right before DC finals, I don't get how that will prepare him for Spanish clay or get him rested.

dae
10-14-2011, 10:20 PM
Do you not realise that he has already been world No 2 before or have you just started watching tennis ?

dae
10-14-2011, 10:25 PM
Oh god.. A ZERO time slam winner at #2 in the world. Muggage.. Pure fucking muggage

Already has been No 2.. Yawn

DrJules
10-14-2011, 10:49 PM
After he wins Shanghai, he will have 7200 points from this year, with Paris and WTF left in this schedule.

Nadal has around 9200 points from this year, so he's only 2000 points ahead of Murray. Nadal has A LOT of points to defend next year, so can Murray perhaps overatek him sometime next year? He's not very far behind Nadal when it comes to the race, and he's likely to do better in Paris too. Andy has 3 1st round losses in a row after his Australian Open final, so he can get A LOT of points from there. If Nadal's form continues to drop, I see Murray taking the #2 spot next year sometime, most likely after Indian Wells/Miami.

Anyone agree?

Have you time travelled into the future.:devil:

Sapeod
10-14-2011, 10:56 PM
Name me one player without a Slam in tennis history with so much hype ?
Nalbandian. Most overrated player of all time.
Have you time travelled into the future.:devil:
Nishikori and then Lopez/Ferrer. It's pretty much 100% gauranteed.

arm
10-14-2011, 11:00 PM
:lol: OP is a bit overexcited, no? it's not like he has never been #2. :lol:

Anyway, should it happen soon, tennis world might collapse! No Nadal or Roger in top2? :bolt: Strange enough not to have them both in top2 let along none...

Edit: wait, the OP is the kid! I can't keep up with all the username changes. :o

Saberq
10-14-2011, 11:07 PM
[QUOTE=Sapeod;11428128]Nalbandian. Most overrated player of all time.

Shit .....but Murray is getting too much hype too even you must agree....how can anyone put a non slam winner as a favorite for a Slam ?

EddceLLent
10-15-2011, 12:37 AM
And a lot of British fans actually don't know there are 3 other grand slams, and they think that tennis is an annual event.

What a ridiculous comment. Sure there's plenty of Brits who only care about tennis when Wimbledon is on but I wouldn't describe them as 'fans'. They're as much tennis fans as someone who has an annual bet on the Grand National is a horse racing fan, or as much as someone who watches the last night of the proms is a fan of opera music.

When I hear someone say that slams are the only important tennis tournaments it immediately makes me think 'this person probably doesn't know much about tennis', because it's such an outsider's way of looking at it. On here it seems to be used almost as a kind pejorative device whereby doubters/trolls use it to demean those who they don't support.

but Murray is getting too much hype too even you must agree....how can anyone put a non slam winner as a favorite for a Slam ?

Again, ridiculous logic: On that basis you'd never predict that anyone new would ever win a slam. What do you mean by "hype" anyway? As far as non-slam winners go, Murray is already the most accomplished and has beaten all of the top players numerous times. He's faced much more difficult opposition in slam finals than Nadal, Federer or Djokovic did for their first slam win and on that basis you'd be more naive to rule him out than you would to put him as a favourite.

The British press is particularly demanding of our sports personalities - the press espouses this sort of naive notion that being British means you're better than "foreigners", and on that basis they build them all up massively and then if they lose they get slaughtered for it.

Back to my original point though: You pick a favourite to win a tournament based on their perceived ability to do so at the time, not on their ability to do so in the past.

paseo
10-15-2011, 12:58 AM
Sapeod is Simon Reed's grandson

:lol:


Nishikori and then Lopez/Ferrer. It's pretty much 100% gauranteed.

An on fire Lopez is a very dangerous opponent, he can beat Murray if he's in full flight. But that's a big IF, of course.

Saberq
10-15-2011, 01:00 AM
he faced more difficult opposition in slam finals than Nadal,Federer,Djokovic?How so?I would say Nadal,Fed and Tsonga are difficult.......

Jafooli
10-15-2011, 01:27 AM
he faced more difficult opposition in slam finals than Nadal,Federer,Djokovic?How so?I would say Nadal,Fed and Tsonga are difficult.......

Nadal played Puerta in his first slam final, Federer played Philippoussis, and Djokovic played Tsonga, all non slam winners and clearly easier opponents than who Murray has had to face (Fed in god mode twice, and then Djokovic 2.0 this year).

Whichever way you look at it there's no doubt Murray's had it a lot tougher in trying to break his slam duck.

Roddickominator
10-15-2011, 01:31 AM
I've always thought that Murray was #2. Meaning that he is a 6 foot 3 smelly heap of feces.

Topspindoctor
10-15-2011, 01:35 AM
Mugray doesn't deserve #2 or even #3. Male Wozniacki and a clown in slams. He should retire already and not give his country more false hopes.

EddceLLent
10-15-2011, 01:40 AM
he faced more difficult opposition in slam finals than Nadal,Federer,Djokovic?How so?I would say Nadal,Fed and Tsonga are difficult.......

Ok, so look at Federer, Nadal and Djokovic's first slam wins:

Djokovic d. Tsonga @ 2008 AO (Tsonga who had never won a slam before, and in fact at the time had never gone beyond the 4th round of a slam)

Nadal d. Puerta @ RG 2005 (Puerta who also hadn't won a slam before, and whose best result in a slam prior to this one was to reach the 3rd round)

Federer d. Philippoussis @ Wimbledon 2003 (Philippousis who had never won a slam, and whose best result in a slam prior to this one was to reach the final of USO)

Then you look at who Murray was facing in the slam finals he's played:

Federer d. Murray @ 2008 USO (Federer, who at the time had already won 12 slams, had won the USO for the last four years in a row)

Federer d. Murray @ 2010 AO (Federer had won 15 slams by this time, including the AO 3 times)

Djokovic d. Murray @ 2011 AO (Djokovic had already won a slam before this time, and was about to embark upon a year where, as of now, he's won an unprecedented 96% of his matches)

You can't possibly tell me that Murray hasn't had much tougher finals in his opportunities to win his first slam than Fed/Nad/Djok did...

P.s. Put it another way - career win/loss of Fed/Nad/Djok's opponents in first slam final wins:

Philippoussis - 313/201 (61%)
Puerta - 128/118 (52%)
Tsonga - 162/77 (68%)

Average win % = 60%

...and Murray's opponents:

Federer - 792/186 (81%)
Djokovic - 388/108 (78%)

Average win % = 80%

Murray's opponents have been of an entirely different class!

Roadmap
10-15-2011, 01:52 AM
I've always thought that Murray was #2. Meaning that he is a 6 foot 3 smelly heap of feces.

How many different ways can you spell FAIL. Better luck next time.

Sapeod
10-15-2011, 01:59 AM
I've always thought that Murray was #2. Meaning that he is a 6 foot 3 smelly heap of feces.
Coming from a Roddick fan? :tape:
Mugray doesn't deserve #2 or even #3. Male Wozniacki and a clown in slams. He should retire already and not give his country more false hopes.
1 final and 3 semi-finals this year. Yeah, total clown in slams :clap2:

Topspindoctor
10-15-2011, 02:10 AM
1 final and 3 semi-finals this year. Yeah, total clown in slams :clap2:

Mugray should win a slam before he becomes a legit #2 player.

BroTree123
10-15-2011, 03:18 AM
Mugray should win a slam before he becomes a legit #2 player.

Too true.

MuzzahLovah
10-15-2011, 03:31 AM
Nadal played Puerta in his first slam final, Federer played Philippoussis, and Djokovic played Tsonga, all non slam winners and clearly easier opponents than who Murray has had to face (Fed in god mode twice, and then Djokovic 2.0 this year).

Whichever way you look at it there's no doubt Murray's had it a lot tougher in trying to break his slam duck.

You know, I never thought of it that way- that is really tough, facing Fed and Djoko2.0 in all your finals. Fed is GOAT, but he did some have some walkover finals in his day.

atennisfan
10-15-2011, 03:37 AM
Nalbandian. Most overrated player of all time.



I actually agree with this.

Topspindoctor
10-15-2011, 03:39 AM
lol @ tards thinking Mugray has it hard. Maybe he should have been a factor in 2005-2008 period where it took Nadal 5 slams and OG to capture #1 rank. The fact that Mugray can't even get #3 spot against 30+ old geezer tells me a lot about his "talent" and mental strength. At the end of the day Mugray is still a slamless mug no matter how many top players he beats at MM tournaments :wavey:

siffleanimaux
10-15-2011, 03:43 AM
is this thread even necessary considering Murray has been no. 2 before? And anyway, Federer and Nadal > Murray forever and always so whatever.

atennisfan
10-15-2011, 03:49 AM
Federer d. Philippoussis @ Wimbledon 2003 (Philippousis who had never won a slam, and whose best result in a slam prior to this one was to reach the final of USO)[/B]




Phillppousis at Wimbledon was as tough as they could have possibly come for an opponent.
He was a wasted talent certainly. too much partying.

rocketassist
10-15-2011, 05:05 AM
Quiet you British mug



Murray in GS finals is a joke



Do. Not. Care.

If he gets to 2, loses a SF to Fed, who is unbeaten v Nole in GS finals, and then beats him after Djoker's kicked Nadull's arse, then great for tennis in general and MTF. Murray's done a good thing either way then.

rocketassist
10-15-2011, 05:07 AM
You are gonna look like a mug when Murray retires in 2 years or so without even a single more GS final to his name. He can't beat any top 3 player when it matters. It's down to physical and technical weakness, nothing to do with 'mentality.'

The kid (although he is old now) is totally over-rated, and there are at least a dozen more players who have an actual forehand who deserve to be ranked number 4 in the world over him.

Murray becoming number 3 in the world shows that the ranking system is severely flawed and should allow players who accomplished greatness and multiple slams in the past to rest on their laurels more.

OMG MURRAY HASN'T WON A GS BECAUSE OF THIS AND THAT! I'M BRITISH! I'M LOGICAL!

NO you're not, you're a c_unt.

MIMIC
10-15-2011, 05:36 AM
Ok, so look at Federer, Nadal and Djokovic's first slam wins:

Djokovic d. Tsonga @ 2008 AO (Tsonga who had never won a slam before, and in fact at the time had never gone beyond the 4th round of a slam)

Nadal d. Puerta @ RG 2005 (Puerta who also hadn't won a slam before, and whose best result in a slam prior to this one was to reach the 3rd round)

Federer d. Philippoussis @ Wimbledon 2003 (Philippousis who had never won a slam, and whose best result in a slam prior to this one was to reach the final of USO)

Then you look at who Murray was facing in the slam finals he's played:

Federer d. Murray @ 2008 USO (Federer, who at the time had already won 12 slams, had won the USO for the last four years in a row)

Federer d. Murray @ 2010 AO (Federer had won 15 slams by this time, including the AO 3 times)

Djokovic d. Murray @ 2011 AO (Djokovic had already won a slam before this time, and was about to embark upon a year where, as of now, he's won an unprecedented 96% of his matches)

You can't possibly tell me that Murray hasn't had much tougher finals in his opportunities to win his first slam than Fed/Nad/Djok did...

P.s. Put it another way - career win/loss of Fed/Nad/Djok's opponents in first slam final wins:

Philippoussis - 313/201 (61%)
Puerta - 128/118 (52%)
Tsonga - 162/77 (68%)

Average win % = 60%

...and Murray's opponents:

Federer - 792/186 (81%)
Djokovic - 388/108 (78%)

Average win % = 80%

Murray's opponents have been of an entirely different class!

Fair point but you have to consider the rest of their opponents along the way, too:

Djokovic's 1st slam win: had to defeat 2-time slam winner Hewitt in the 4th round and 12-time slam winner Federer in the semis
Federer's 1st slam win: OK, this was pretty easy :lol:
Nadal's 1st slam: had to defeat 4-time slam winner Federer

So while their opponents in the final didn't have legendary resumes, their opponents along the way DID (at least for Nadal and Djokovic)

MuzzahLovah
10-15-2011, 07:12 AM
Fair point but you have to consider the rest of their opponents along the way, too:

Djokovic's 1st slam win: had to defeat 2-time slam winner Hewitt in the 4th round and 12-time slam winner Federer in the semis
Federer's 1st slam win: OK, this was pretty easy :lol:
Nadal's 1st slam: had to defeat 4-time slam winner Federer

So while their opponents in the final didn't have legendary resumes, their opponents along the way DID (at least for Nadal and Djokovic)

Yes, but in the finals Murray has reached, he's beaten Nadal(multiple slam winner) twice out 3 final runs. Having a win against a multiple grandslam champ like Djoko and Nadal did is one thing, but in the final, the next match, where a letdown after the huge upsets would be likely, they faced first time nervous opponents as well. Tsonga is a decent player, but at the time he wasn't in the top 10 and was huge surprise. Nadal faced Puerta...

Murray would have had to beat Nadal and Federer back to back in 2008(his first huge run), and in 2010 in the space of 3 matches.

MIMIC
10-15-2011, 07:46 AM
Yes, but in the finals Murray has reached, he's beaten Nadal(multiple slam winner) twice out 3 final runs. Having a win against a multiple grandslam champ like Djoko and Nadal did is one thing, but in the final, the next match, where a letdown after the huge upsets would be likely, they faced first time nervous opponents as well. Tsonga is a decent player, but at the time he wasn't in the top 10 and was huge surprise. Nadal faced Puerta...

Murray would have had to beat Nadal and Federer back to back in 2008(his first huge run), and in 2010 in the space of 3 matches.

Well I don't know about being nervous because Tsonga won the 1st set against Djokovic in that final. But what Djokovic did was he kept his composure, something Murray is going to have to do if he wants to win his first slam. It's not the level of opponent that is keeping Murray from winning a slam; it's his state-of-mind. Murray is obviously good enough to beat any player but for him to get over the hump, he's going to have show some courage. It's not going to get any easier for him and he's likely going to have to win it the del Potro way: beat a multiple slam winner back-to-back.

So yes, it could definitely be argued that his road to a title will probably be more difficult than his slam-winning friends but he's talented enough to make it happen. He just has to deal with adversity better because like I said, it isn't going to be easier....and since he has a winning H2H against Federer and has beaten Nadal twice at slams, the level of his competition won't an acceptable excuse as the years go by....

xdrewitdajx
10-15-2011, 08:06 AM
Murray will be #2 soon, but not this year. Maybe after Miami next year. Once he gets over his mental barrier (losing 3 straight GS SF in one year to Nadal on three different surfaces, that has to fuck with your head) in slams he'll start making more finals and obviously win a few. Djokovic got over his mental barrier and now GS encounters between him and Fed/Nadal are much more interesting, in my opinion. The same will happen if Murray gets his shit together (and I think he's on the verge). Doesn't exactly bode well for the non-top 4 tour, but...fuck it.

MuzzahLovah
10-15-2011, 08:15 AM
Well I don't know about being nervous because Tsonga won the 1st set against Djokovic in that final. But what Djokovic did was he kept his composure, something Murray is going to have to do if he wants to win his first slam. It's not the level of opponent that is keeping Murray from winning a slam; it's his state-of-mind. Murray is obviously good enough to beat any player but for him to get over the hump, he's going to have show some courage. It's not going to get any easier for him and he's likely going to have to win it the del Potro way: beat a multiple slam winner back-to-back.

So yes, it could definitely be argued that his road to a title will probably be more difficult than his slam-winning friends but he's talented enough to make it happen. He just has to deal with adversity better because like I said, it isn't going to be easier....and since he has a winning H2H against Federer and has beaten Nadal twice at slams, the level of his competition won't an acceptable excuse as the years go by....

You're right on those points- he'll have to beat 2 out of the big 3 to win a slam in all likelihood and he clearly has shown the ability to beat them in other contexts. I was just taking issue with the comment I replied to. I'm really hoping his match against Nadal is harbinger of good things to come, as it took a lot of courage/focus/belief for Murray to save 3 break points against Nadal after being a set down in the Tokyo final, after losing 5 times in a row to Nadal. He'll need that kind of grit if he's going to win a slam.

NJ88
10-15-2011, 11:31 AM
If Murray continues to play the way he has been then it's a distinct possibility. During the latter half of this year he's been very consistant (mostly) in slams and in masters series whereas Nadal seem to be falling at the moment. I'm sure he can get better and come back but he has far more points to defend in the early part of next year than Murray. So if Murray can play well in those tournaments (hopefully he wont have a post Australian Open lull) then he could be looking to overtake next year.

MaxPower
10-15-2011, 12:02 PM
Most likely. Nadal is feeding of the clay season and Monte Carlo, RG. Soon as he fails or a hero emerges again and takes him out of RG then Murray will overtake him. No question about it

BroTree123
10-15-2011, 12:07 PM
It's make or break in 2012 IMO.

Vida
10-15-2011, 01:16 PM
You know, I never thought of it that way- that is really tough, facing Fed and Djoko2.0 in all your finals. Fed is GOAT, but he did some have some walkover finals in his day.

a contradiction?

xdrewitdajx
10-15-2011, 01:56 PM
Do. Not. Care.

If he gets to 2, loses a SF to Fed, who is unbeaten v Nole in GS finals, and then beats him after Djoker's kicked Nadull's arse, then great for tennis in general and MTF. Murray's done a good thing either way then.

kind of a weird thing to say...their only GS final was Djokovic in his first ever final, in 2007...and he choked (I hate to use that word but it applies here without a doubt) both of the first two sets away. And since then, they haven't been in finals mostly because, well, "the draws are rigged" remember? The Djokovic/Federer same half thing?

i just find it odd to throw that in, that's all

Vida
10-15-2011, 02:11 PM
kind of a weird thing to say...their only GS final was Djokovic in his first ever final, in 2007...and he choked (I hate to use that word but it applies here without a doubt) both of the first two sets away. And since then, they haven't been in finals mostly because, well, "the draws are rigged" remember? The Djokovic/Federer same half thing?

i just find it odd to throw that in, that's all

just one of many "odd" and "weird" things that come out of that source.

Gullyfoyle
10-15-2011, 02:22 PM
OMG MURRAY HASN'T WON A GS BECAUSE OF THIS AND THAT! I'M BRITISH! I'M LOGICAL!

NO you're not, you're a c_unt.

Can you say that? great.. he is isn't he..

MuzzahLovah
10-15-2011, 03:22 PM
a contradiction?

Not really, even if Fed had 5 walkovers, that would mean he have 11 thrillers which he won. Don't forget the finals he lost. And even if he had mostly easy finals, he had to beat champion or two in almost every slam ( Agassi, Hewitt, Roddick, Nadal, Djokovic etc.) in earlier rounds.

Vida
10-15-2011, 03:27 PM
Not really, even if Fed had 5 walkovers, that would mean he have 11 thrillers which he won. Don't forget the finals he lost. And even if he had mostly easy finals, he had to beat champion or two in almost every slam ( Agassi, Hewitt, Roddick, Nadal, Djokovic etc.) in earlier rounds.

hm. thats a good argument.

Im still not sold on that GOAT thing. mainly cause of the overwhelming, mathematical, technical, ownage by nadal - his rival, and cause of the lack of mental toughness when the chips are down.

MuzzahLovah
10-15-2011, 03:40 PM
hm. thats a good argument.

Im still not sold on that GOAT thing. mainly cause of the overwhelming, mathematical, technical, ownage by nadal - his rival, and cause of the lack of mental toughness when the chips are down.

Well GOAT doesn't mean god does it? Just better than all the other tennis players, not someone with a perfect record against everyone. Who else would be the Greatest of All Time? Sampras had a better H2H against Agassi, but he never had anything Close to Federer's performance on Clay. And other than Sampras, no one is really that close in terms of years at number 1 or majors.

yuri27
10-15-2011, 04:48 PM
I think Murray will win a GS.
I was not entirely convinced of that few months ago but now i am.

Saberq
10-15-2011, 04:59 PM
I think Murray will win a GS.
I was not entirely convinced of that few months ago but now i am.

why?because he is taking advantage of Novak's and Fed's retirements and he is winning against opponents ranked 40 in the world and MM tournaments???

Sapeod
10-15-2011, 05:12 PM
why?because he is taking advantage of Novak's and Fed's retirements and he is winning against opponents ranked 40 in the world and MM tournaments???
He destroyed Nadal, who was playing very well. And he's just destroying everyone he's playing. It doesn't matter who they are, he's destroying them and his consistency is back to its peak.

Anyway, you won't change your opinion on Andy even if he beats your clown Djokovic 6-0 6-0.

yuri27
10-15-2011, 05:25 PM
why?because he is taking advantage of Novak's and Fed's retirements and he is winning against opponents ranked 40 in the world and MM tournaments???

No,because of the way he is bouncing back after every GS dissappointment.
I really thought that his last 2 losses against Nadal at Wimbledon and US Open would destroy him mentally for good but on contrary,he bounced back playing probably some of the best tennis of his career against a very good Nadal last week(ask Fish if Nadal was not good last week).

munZe konZa
10-15-2011, 05:45 PM
If Andy Murray is to become the main rival to Nole , then I am sure Nole will be the most dominant player ever for the foreseeable future

DrJules
10-15-2011, 05:47 PM
If Andy Murray is to become the main rival to Nole , then I am sure Nole will be the most dominant player ever for the foreseeable future

Waves red flag at Sapeod.

MuzzahLovah
10-15-2011, 05:48 PM
If Andy Murray is to become the main rival to Nole , then I am sure Nole will be the most dominant player ever for the foreseeable future

He couldn't do worse than Nadal :shrug:

LawrenceOfTennis
10-15-2011, 06:39 PM
If he wins Paris and WTF, then I say he deserved number 2. Otherwise, no way.

Yolita
10-15-2011, 06:44 PM
Do you not realise that he has already been world No 2 before or have you just started watching tennis ?

He was #2 for 3 weeks in 2009, because the calendar had just been changed and the 1000 points he had from the 2008 Madrid title, which he couldn't defend in 2009, kept running for a few months after he failed to defend them. The calendasr actually helped him to be #2 for those 3 weeks. That doesn't mean anything. Even last year, when Novak was #2 for 26 weeks, people took no notice. What counts is the end-of-year rankings. Not a couple of weeks in the middle of a season.

That's why this year may be significant for Andy, he may end the season as #3. That'll be a first for him. His fans should be happy with that. End-of-year #2 for 2012? I seriously doubt it, but he may have another 2 or 3 weeks as #2 in the middle of the season. Who cares?

Saberq
10-15-2011, 06:52 PM
If he wins Paris and WTF, then I say he deserved number 2. Otherwise, no way.

of course he wont win neither one because Fed and Nole are back and this bye's for Murray are over....

Yolita
10-15-2011, 07:18 PM
I just finished reading the whole thread again, and this feels like 2008 all over again. Murray has some wins and some titles and people immediately start overrating him and expecting him to perform beyond his abilities. And when he fails to deliver, they'll all come down on him in anger. I remember the nasty, sarcastic articles on British newspapers this year after every 1st round loss.

Poor Andy. It's not his fault that you overhype him. Why can't you just enjoy his wins instead of starting to ask for more? As if this wasn't enough... He's being crushed under the weight of expectations. That's where his bad luck lies, not with his GS finals opponents.

He's playing really well at the moment. Enjoy his success and titles now. And let's see what happens next year.

This year has proven that in tennis it's impossible to predict what's going to happen the following year.

MuzzahLovah
10-15-2011, 07:24 PM
I just finished reading the whole thread again, and this feels like 2008 all over again. Murray has some wins and some titles and people immediately start overrating him and expecting him to perform beyond his abilities. And when he fails to deliver, they'll all come down on him in anger. I remember the nasty, sarcastic articles on British newspapers this year after every 1st round loss.

Poor Andy. It's not his fault that you overhype him. Why can't you just enjoy his wins instead of starting to ask for more? As if this wasn't enough... He's being crushed under the weight of expectations. That's where his bad luck lies, not with his GS finals opponents.

He's playing really well at the moment. Enjoy his success and titles now. And let's see what happens next year.

This year has proven that in tennis it's impossible to predict what's going to happen the following year.

Come on, only Sapeod made this prediction- Sapeod has unrealistic expectations for Murray, but I could name 10 rafatards that expect Nadal to win the Golden CYGS next year. For what it's worth, Murray won't get to two in 2011, and probably won't next year unless and until he wins a slam. If he doesn't win a slam, he might still get there for a few weeks, but won't be able to stay.

philosophicalarf
10-15-2011, 07:25 PM
If he wins Paris and WTF, then I say he deserved number 2. Otherwise, no way.

If he is number 2, he deserves to be number 2. It's not some subjective list, you either win the matches or you don't.

WTF and Paris would leave him short of Nadal anyway, probably by 500-1000 points or so. Murray basically took a holiday for Rotterdam/Dubai/IW/Miami, when a total 3k points were on offer. It'll be then #2 will be up for grabs.

LawrenceOfTennis
10-15-2011, 07:27 PM
If he is number 2, he deserves to be number 2. It's not some subjective list, you either win the matches or you don't.

WTF and Paris would leave him short of Nadal anyway, probably by 500-1000 points or so. Murray basically took a holiday for Rotterdam/Dubai/IW/Miami, when anywhere up to 3k points were on offer. It'll be then #2 will be up for grabs.

Well you can reach things in different ways, look at Rios' number one position. I'm speaking about convincing people about things.

xdrewitdajx
10-15-2011, 07:39 PM
the rankings are what they are. If someone is the #1 ranked player, he is the #1 ranked player. The #1 relates to the ATP rankings, the main quantitative system that is universally accepted and used. You can make your own criteria and your own rankings, and call them something else. Then it'll be up to you to bring that system into the mainstream. Godspeed

!VamosRafa!
10-15-2011, 07:58 PM
Yeah, probably.
In June I thiink.

Chase Visa
10-16-2011, 12:53 AM
I think he can get there. Nadal's always done better at the start rather than at the finish of the season, but Murray's seemed to have turned a corner. Nadal really needs to play like his old self in the clay court season to keep the #2 slot I feel.

romismak
10-16-2011, 03:38 AM
First of all Murray has been No.2 before. But if we are talking about him to surapass Rafa than yes it is possibly how was mentioned during IW-Miami. Important for Murray is to get more points in Paris - WTF than Rafa, if he will play and win Valencia good for him too. But next year he than need to get more points together from AO-IW-Miami - 500s -Rotterdam or Dubai than Rafa and maybe he will be 2nd. But how someone mentioned the Year end ranking is what counts- it means how many points you get for whole year- 1 season it is far more important that you are above someone in ranking for few weeks, because you play great and he is average or failed to defend huge title and lost points. So the question is if Andy can end year as No.2 for 2012 and i think it is possible too, Rafa was used to get a lot of points from clay season what alone was insurance to be at least 2nd when somebody is dominating other surfaces, but with Nole 2.0 there is not anymore that big amount of points from clay like Rafa is used to and than there are new opporunities for Murray. BTW he was 2nd in 2009 for few weeks and it had 0 importance i think, becuase Rafa was beaten at RG where he lost a lot of points and than he didn´t even play Wimby where he lost a lot of points, so that cost him 2nd place and Andy took advantage of it. BTW 2009 so far was his best season and he still ended 4th, despite being 2nd for few weeks and that DJokovic had many healthy-technic problems and didn´t defend his succes from 2008, but still was able to be consistent at least and made a lot of finals - finals at Masters and somehow managed to get more points than Andy that year and ended 3rd.

Naudio Spanlatine
10-16-2011, 04:01 AM
Seriously if hes number 2 after this year im gonna shoot my self:help: :timebomb:

he is nowhere near a deserving number 2 in the world, but number 3 will be fine, i rather him have number 3 that fedDICK

Topspindoctor
10-16-2011, 04:04 AM
Seriously if hes number 2 after this year im gonna shoot my self:help: :timebomb:

he is nowhere near a deserving number 2 in the world, but number 3 will be fine, i rather him have number 3 that fedDICK

Mugray doesn't deserve his current spot, much less anything higher, he's a vulture like WTA's Wozniacki. When other players are in form, the clown bombs out to Young and Bogomolov. I am looking forward to another failed slam in Melbourne, especially since all of Mugray's fanboys suddenly crawled out of Mugray's forum to gloat :tape: :o

Naudio Spanlatine
10-16-2011, 04:08 AM
Mugray doesn't deserve his current spot, much less anything higher, he's a vulture like WTA's Wozniacki. When other players are in form, the clown bombs out to Young and Bogomolov. I am looking forward to another failed slam in Melbourne, especially since all of Mugray's fanboys suddenly crawled out of Mugray's forum to gloat :tape: :o

yea your right about that TBH, how can you have upsets like that, i mean when hes losing he plays the worst outta every player on tour....

he IS a vulture like WozzEEWWWroy, it annoys me that i thought he was a great player but lets be honest hear, he doesnt have top 3 material like Nole, Nadal and FedDICKer(and YES fed fed:rolleyes:)

MuzzahLovah
10-16-2011, 04:15 AM
Mugray doesn't deserve his current spot, much less anything higher, he's a vulture like WTA's Wozniacki. When other players are in form, the clown bombs out to Young and Bogomolov. I am looking forward to another failed slam in Melbourne, especially since all of Mugray's fanboys suddenly crawled out of Mugray's forum to gloat :tape: :o

Murray def. Nadal, ATP 500, Tokyo Final: 3-6 6-2 6-0

If Murray is a vulture, doesn't that make Nadal a carcass?

philosophicalarf
10-16-2011, 10:17 AM
Mugray doesn't deserve his current spot, much less anything higher, he's a vulture like WTA's Wozniacki. When other players are in form, the clown bombs out to Young and Bogomolov.

Urrrm, when Young was in his best form of the year, Murray bagelled him.

ossie
10-16-2011, 10:19 AM
only way murray can rise in the rankings is if other players start failing

Roadmap
10-16-2011, 11:33 AM
If SpinDoctor does not believe Murray deserves fourth spot then who does he think should be there? I await an absolute joke of a reply.

ufiors
10-16-2011, 11:37 AM
Murray soon GS champ and #1

BroTree123
10-16-2011, 11:43 AM
Topspindoctor hows the DVD coming along?

Saberq
10-16-2011, 11:44 AM
Murray soon GS champ and #1

LOL give me a break

philosophicalarf
10-16-2011, 12:02 PM
2300pt gap in race to number2 now. Paris is the obvious place to close the gap, since the surface is ugly for Nadal. WTF hugely slower so likely won't be much gained there.

Foxy
10-16-2011, 12:06 PM
2300pt gap in race to number2 now. Paris is the obvious place to close the gap, since the surface is ugly for Nadal. WTF hugely slower so likely won't be much gained there.

Keep dreaming...

MuzzahLovah
10-16-2011, 12:07 PM
2300pt gap in race to number2 now. Paris is the obvious place to close the gap, since the surface is ugly for Nadal. WTF hugely slower so likely won't be much gained there.

Andy may continues his great season and win Paris, and maybe even the WTF, but even I don't think so little of Nadal as that he'd exit Paris first round and lose all of his RR matches at the WTF. #2 is a bridge to far this year.

emotion
10-16-2011, 12:11 PM
Perhaps after IW/Miami

Matt01
10-16-2011, 12:18 PM
Anyway, you won't change your opinion on Andy even if he beats your clown Djokovic 6-0 6-0.


That "clown" beat your fave in a Slam final earlier this year and is dominating the tour. Maybe you chose your words more carefully next time.

Roadmap
10-16-2011, 12:19 PM
Lets say Nadal loses in the semi of WTF but wins all the RR matches. That is 400 LESS points than he picked up last year. Lets say Murray wins the WTF without losing a match. That is 1100 MORE point than he picked up at last years tournament. That is a 1500 point turn around.

Roadmap
10-16-2011, 12:19 PM
It will be either Federer or Murray who wins WTF.

Roadmap
10-16-2011, 12:20 PM
I am thinking Murray has a brilliant chance to be second going into next years clay season.

philosophicalarf
10-16-2011, 12:21 PM
Andy may continues his great season and win Paris, and maybe even the WTF, but even I don't think so little of Nadal as that he'd exit Paris first round and lose all of his RR matches at the WTF. #2 is a bridge to far this year.

Oh, no chance this season certainly. However, if he can bring him within 1000-1500pts distance, should have a decent shot in feb/march of #2.

Roadmap
10-16-2011, 12:21 PM
Nadull is burning to prove everyone wrong including myself.

madmax
10-16-2011, 12:28 PM
He would be a better #2 than current declining Nadull, that's for sure...both are pushers from hell, but at least scott has variety and provides occasional shotmaking ability to brighten his overall dull game

Chase Visa
10-16-2011, 12:33 PM
Murray would probably win to need to win a Slam or another couple of Masters to overtake Nadal I'd think. However, Nadal's lack of form may mean that just improved results may get Murray over the line....

Nadal's points to defend for the rest of the hard-court season....

1000 - ATP World Tour Finals (F)
90 - Doha (SF)
360 - Australian Open (QF)
600 - Indian Wells (F)
600 - Miami (F)

Total = 2650.

45 - Valencia (R16)
180 - Paris (QF)
400 - ATP World Tour Finals (SF)
1200 - Australian Open (F)
0 - Dubai (penalty 0)
10 - Indian Wells (R64)
10 - Miami (R64)

Total = 1845.

Murray's got Sweet FA to defend outside of the Australian Open, but Nadal's points to defend is surprisingly small too - so Murray's gotta do a lot better than Nadal if he wants to overtake him.

LawrenceOfTennis
10-16-2011, 12:53 PM
If Tokyo Murray shows up in Valencia or Basel, he can win them.

Roadmap
10-16-2011, 12:57 PM
Murray would probably win to need to win a Slam or another couple of Masters to overtake Nadal I'd think. However, Nadal's lack of form may mean that just improved results may get Murray over the line....

Nadal's points to defend for the rest of the hard-court season....

1000 - ATP World Tour Finals (F)
90 - Doha (SF)
360 - Australian Open (QF)
600 - Indian Wells (F)
600 - Miami (F)

Total = 2650.

45 - Valencia (R16)
180 - Paris (QF)
400 - ATP World Tour Finals (SF)
1200 - Australian Open (F)
0 - Dubai (penalty 0)
10 - Indian Wells (R64)
10 - Miami (R64)

Total = 1845.

Murray's got Sweet FA to defend outside of the Australian Open, but Nadal's points to defend is surprisingly small too - so Murray's gotta do a lot better than Nadal if he wants to overtake him.

If Murray and Nadal meet in the Aussie Open final and Murray wins Nadull would still recieve 840 more points than this years event and Murray only 800 more. Interesting.

Roadmap
10-16-2011, 12:58 PM
It seems it will be more difficult than I originally thought.

Chase Visa
10-16-2011, 01:01 PM
If Tokyo Murray shows up in Valencia or Basel, he can win them.

Can't see him winning Basel w/ Federer and Djokovic there.

Should win Valencia though.

LawrenceOfTennis
10-16-2011, 01:01 PM
Considering 2011 has been the best year of his career so far, I think it will take some time to crack top 2.

LawrenceOfTennis
10-16-2011, 01:02 PM
Can't see him winning Basel w/ Federer and Djokovic there.

Should win Valencia though.

Djokovic's been quite off recently and coming back he can't beat this Murray.

Certinfy
10-16-2011, 01:03 PM
I think it all comes down to how well he'll do at the Australian Open next year, if he at least defends his final there I would say he'll definitely get the No.2 spot at IW or Miami.

superganon
10-16-2011, 01:03 PM
srsly....murray is peaking right now. he dosent have a chance against djoko,fed (in slams) and nadal.

he was nr 2 in 2009 witch was quite a suprise. he wont win a slam in same era as novak & nadal

LawrenceOfTennis
10-16-2011, 01:08 PM
I think it all comes down to how well he'll do at the Australian Open next year, if he at least defends his final there I would say he'll definitely get the No.2 spot at IW or Miami.

This.
Now I think he has a nice chance there, considering his current form. OZ Open is another animal, but he has some history there. I did not see this coming (great streak this fall) and his huge win vs Nadal kinda caught me off guard. So I changed my mind about my Aussie Open's prediction.

hilluis
10-16-2011, 01:08 PM
Can't see him winning Basel w/ Federer and Djokovic there.

Should win Valencia though.

Valencia and Basel are the same week... Murray can't play both!

Chase Visa
10-16-2011, 01:11 PM
Valencia and Basel are the same week... Murray can't play both!

Yeah, was at another posters point.

LawrenceOfTennis
10-16-2011, 01:15 PM
Yeah, was at another posters point.

Well, if you're referring to me I wrote Valencia OR Basel

Alex999
10-16-2011, 01:30 PM
I think that if he manages to reach #2 it would help him out to win a GS (or I hope so :-). He'd probably avoid tougher players, easier draw etc. It's not given but still it's hard to say. Nadal is a tough cookie. Murray has proved, this year, that he can play very well on any surface and I can hardly wait for the clay season next year.

Sure Nole won that match, but, oh boy it was so close. Now, I'm going to watch some highlights.

One thing that really bothers me here is when guys underestimate these top athletes. They said Novak couldn't play on grass. Novak won W. They say Novak was a one slam wonder. Well, he won 4. They say Murray will never win a slam. We'll see. Too many guys here with broken crystal balls :-).

LawrenceOfTennis
10-16-2011, 01:33 PM
I think that if he manages to reach #2 it would help him out to win a GS (or I hope so :-). He'd probably avoid tougher players, easier draw etc. It's not given but still it's hard to say. Nadal is a tough cookie. Murray has proved, this year, that he can play very well on any surface and I can hardly wait for the clay season next year.

Sure Nole won that match, but, oh boy it was so close. Now, I'm going to watch some highlights.

One thing that really bothers me here is when guys underestimate these top athletes. They said Novak couldn't play on grass. Novak won W. They say Novak was a one slam wonder. Well, he won 4. They say Murray will never win a slam. We'll see. Too many guys here with broken crystal balls :-).

The problem is that there are no grass courts for quite a while.

Alex999
10-16-2011, 01:52 PM
The problem is that there are no grass courts for quite a while.
you mean grass = clay :). it is what it is. what do you do?

LawrenceOfTennis
10-16-2011, 01:56 PM
you mean grass = clay :). it is what it is. what do you do?

Yeah true, I mean not much to do with, just a fact.

xdrewitdajx
10-16-2011, 02:01 PM
I think that if he manages to reach #2 it would help him out to win a GS (or I hope so :-). He'd probably avoid tougher players, easier draw etc. It's not given but still it's hard to say. Nadal is a tough cookie. Murray has proved, this year, that he can play very well on any surface and I can hardly wait for the clay season next year.

Sure Nole won that match, but, oh boy it was so close. Now, I'm going to watch some highlights.

One thing that really bothers me here is when guys underestimate these top athletes. They said Novak couldn't play on grass. Novak won W. They say Novak was a one slam wonder. Well, he won 4. They say Murray will never win a slam. We'll see. Too many guys here with broken crystal balls :-).

you referring to AO final? If so, the first set was close. After that, Djokovic obliterated him. I think he even had a break point chance for a bagel second set (or for 5:0 lead with serve, can't remember), if I'm not mistaken. After that one crazy rally in the first set, it was like all the energy/hope was zapped from Murray.

I actually really like Murray, but the AO final was not close. I'd love to see "this" Murray against "that" Djokovic in a GS final though, for sure.

and I agree with you on the rest of that post.

Alex999
10-16-2011, 02:11 PM
you referring to AO final? If so, the first set was close. After that, Djokovic obliterated him. I think he even had a break point chance for a bagel second set (or for 5:0 lead with serve, can't remember), if I'm not mistaken. After that one crazy rally in the first set, it was like all the energy/hope was zapped from Murray.

I actually really like Murray, but the AO final was not close. I'd love to see "this" Murray against "that" Djokovic in a GS final though, for sure.

and I agree with you on the rest of that post.
No, I'm sorry. I was referring to Rome.

Saberq
10-16-2011, 02:18 PM
you referring to AO final? If so, the first set was close. After that, Djokovic obliterated him. I think he even had a break point chance for a bagel second set (or for 5:0 lead with serve, can't remember), if I'm not mistaken. After that one crazy rally in the first set, it was like all the energy/hope was zapped from Murray.

I actually really like Murray, but the AO final was not close. I'd love to see "this" Murray against "that" Djokovic in a GS final though, for sure.

and I agree with you on the rest of that post.

This Murray is the same Murray that was always only more relaxed given the draw,opponents and lack of Nole and Fed

xdrewitdajx
10-16-2011, 02:19 PM
ugh, I'm an idiot. Should have been obvious you were talking about that match, considering you mentioned the clay season right before it. Sorry. I can't say it's early, can't say I haven't had my morning coffee, can't say I'm tired. No excuses =[

xdrewitdajx
10-16-2011, 02:21 PM
This Murray is the same Murray that was always only more relaxed given the draw,opponents and lack of Nole and Fed

Relaxation can make all the difference. If he can be relaxed and play more freely against the top players, he can beat them. He has in the past, and he can do it again.

Saberq
10-16-2011, 02:21 PM
Djokovic's been quite off recently and coming back he can't beat this Murray.

Djokovic at 70% can destroy Murray....Murray is still playing average only his opponents are shit ......when he beats Fed or Nole in a Slam call me..........

Roadmap
10-16-2011, 02:36 PM
Djokovic at 70% can destroy Murray....Murray is still playing average only his opponents are shit ......when he beats Fed or Nole in a Slam call me..........

Murray and Djokovic have only played once in a slam and Murray was moving only at sixty per cent because of leg pain. If/when they meet again the match/matches will be extremely close and you might even get a surprise :p

Alex999
10-16-2011, 02:36 PM
ugh, I'm an idiot. Should have been obvious you were talking about that match, considering you mentioned the clay season right before it. Sorry. I can't say it's early, can't say I haven't had my morning coffee, can't say I'm tired. No excuses =[
np bud. It's all good. Enjoy your coffee :).

Sapeod
10-16-2011, 02:42 PM
Murray and Djokovic have only played once in a slam and Murray was moving only at sixty per cent because of leg pain. If/when they meet again the match/matches will be extremely close and you might even get a surprise :p
Obviously the guy didn't see their Rome match where Djokovic was at Murray's mercy at one point.

Alex999
10-16-2011, 02:42 PM
Djokovic at 70% can destroy Murray....Murray is still playing average only his opponents are shit ......when he beats Fed or Nole in a Slam call me..........
OK, I love Nole. I've been his fan for a long time but man, take it easy. Murray is playing very well. He can and he did defeat Novak, Rafa and Roger. I'd be careful to make such a bold prediction "Djokovic at 70% can destroy Murray". Define your 70%. I don't get it.

Roadmap
10-16-2011, 02:48 PM
Obviously the guy didn't see their Rome match where Djokovic was at Murray's mercy at one point.

Saberq has himself admitted that Djokovic was giving up at stages of their Rome affair. Saberq thinks Djokovic was tired but I think he was reeling from the tennis lesson that Murray was dealing out. Djokovic knew he was facing a different Murray compared to the injured one he faced in the Australian open final.

Roadmap
10-16-2011, 02:49 PM
I think they will meet more than once in slams next year.

Roadmap
10-16-2011, 02:50 PM
It is not cut and dried that Djokovic will finish his career with a better resume.

Sapeod
10-16-2011, 02:54 PM
Saberq has himself admitted that Djokovic was giving up at stages of their Rome affair. Saberq thinks Djokovic was tired but I think he was reeling from the tennis lesson that Murray was dealing out. Djokovic knew he was facing a different Murray compared to the injured one he faced in the Australian open final.
Exactly. Djokovic was incredibly lucky to even win that match. In fact, the only reason he won it was because Andy gave it to him.

xdrewitdajx
10-16-2011, 02:58 PM
Maybe Andy shouldn't be so generous.

Alex999
10-16-2011, 03:19 PM
Listen guys, Murray didn't give anything away. Novak won that match fair and square. Murray wasn't able to close that match. Was Novak lucky? I personally don't believe in luck. Was he mentally stronger than Andy in Rome? Probably. It's all a learning experience. Look at the Novak vs. Roger match in New York this year. Down 2 match points and still smiling. He won.

I remember so many matches when Novak played well and he was a "better player" but he lost. I'm thinking of the USO 2007, Hamburg and Madrid when he played vs Nadal and lost miserably. I can go on and on . I think we all create our luck and our misery. I do believe that Murray is a very smart player. Tennis is extremely competitive at the top level.

Sapeod
10-16-2011, 03:27 PM
Listen guys, Murray didn't give anything away. Novak won that match fair and square. Murray wasn't able to close that match. Was Novak lucky? I personally don't believe in luck. Was he mentally stronger than Andy in Rome? Probably. It's all a learning experience. Look at the Novak vs. Roger match in New York this year. Down 2 match points and still smiling. He won.

I remember so many matches when Novak played well and he was a "better player" but he lost. I'm thinking of the USO 2007, Hamburg and Madrid when he played vs Nadal and lost miserably. I can go on and on . I think we all create our luck and our misery. I do believe that Murray is a very smart player. Tennis is extremely competitive at the top level.
Wrong, Andy gave it to him. Andy was 2 points away from victory, double faulted and then handed the break back. He gave it away. Djokovic was fortunate that happened. In other words, Djokovic was lucky :wavey:

Naudio Spanlatine
10-16-2011, 03:32 PM
^:facepalm: :haha: Nole was injured as well....."ON HIS KNEE" and played the best match ever against Andiot, Andiot didnt even have a chance against Nole........you are such in denial i swear:rolleyes:

LawrenceOfTennis
10-16-2011, 03:42 PM
Well you maybe don't believe in luck, but Djokovic himself apologized after many winners during Garros, he knew he has all the luck in the world. Every fucking net helped him through this year. Respect his achievements, but not extremely talented workhorses need luck and clown field like this.

Naudio Spanlatine
10-16-2011, 03:46 PM
Well you maybe don't believe in luck, but Djokovic himself apologized after many winners during Garros, he knew he has all the luck in the world. Every fucking net helped him through this year. Respect his achievements, but not extremely talented workhorses need luck and clown field like this.

actually not all the net gave him luck tbqh, it sometimes even hurts him:mad::o

but Nole.....at his PUREST best:worship::angel:

Alex999
10-16-2011, 03:58 PM
Wrong, Andy gave it to him. Andy was 2 points away from victory, double faulted and then handed the break back. He gave it away. Djokovic was fortunate that happened. In other words, Djokovic was lucky :wavey:
OK, so you love Murray and you are 16 yo. Fine with me. I like Andy too but you are being silly. How do you win a tennis match? The winner takes it all. Call it luck or whatever you want but Djokovic won that match. I'm sure you were disappointed. Are you telling me that Djokovic won 3 majors this year because he was lucky? I've seen so many tennis matches in my life. I'm much older than you but hey you know it all, lol.

Was Federer lucky to win 16 slams? Was Rafa lucky to win 10? Was Borg lucky to win 11 majors? Yeah, right. :)

Sapeod
10-16-2011, 04:02 PM
OK, so you love Murray and you are 16 yo. Fine with me. I like Andy too but you are being silly. How do you win a tennis match? The winner takes it all. Call it luck or whatever you want but Djokovic won that match. I'm sure you were disappointed. Are you telling me that Djokovic won 3 majors this year because he was lucky? I've seen so many tennis matches in my life. I'm much older than you but hey you know it all, lol.

Was Federer lucky to win 16 slams? Was Rafa lucky to win 10? Was Borg lucky to win 11 majors? Yeah, right. :)
Federer won 16 slams because he's the best of all time.
Nadal has only won 6 slams in my eyes. His titles outside RG are due to courts being slowed down.
Borg won 11 slams because he was awesome.

Djokovic has won his slams this year due to crap opponents (Murray was terrible, Nadal was terrible in both of their finals). Not much else to say.

Sham Kay
10-16-2011, 04:06 PM
Was Federer lucky to win 16 slams? Was Rafa lucky to win 10? Was Borg lucky to win 11 majors? Yeah, right. :)
Yeah, they used up all the luck and left none for Murray. The greedy luck whores.

Sham Kay
10-16-2011, 04:09 PM
Don't think Murray will get to number 2 till late next year, especially if Aussie goes badly wrong.

Alex999
10-16-2011, 04:13 PM
Well you maybe don't believe in luck, but Djokovic himself apologized after many winners during Garros, he knew he has all the luck in the world. Every fucking net helped him through this year. Respect his achievements, but not extremely talented workhorses need luck and clown field like this.

It's not a "clown field". You just simply have a few guys who do everything better than everyone else on the tour. All that apologizing is very silly IMHO. You won a game. What do you need to apologize for? ;)

For a long time now I have tried simply to write the best I can. Sometimes I have good luck and write better than I can.
~Ernest Hemingway

Alex999
10-16-2011, 04:36 PM
Federer won 16 slams because he's the best of all time.
Nadal has only won 6 slams in my eyes. His titles outside RG are due to courts being slowed down.
Borg won 11 slams because he was awesome.

Djokovic has won his slams this year due to crap opponents (Murray was terrible, Nadal was terrible in both of their finals). Not much else to say.
OK, I'm kinda bored this morning so I'll try to have a civil conversation with you :).
Nadal won 10 slams. What is the part you do NOT understand?. Shall we believe "in your eyes" or the fact that Nadal did win 10 slams? Oh, I'm sorry, you are a tennis expert. You are better than Bodo. Maybe one day when you grow up, you will be able to be a journalist and work for tennis.com.

Djokovic won 4 slams. Yes, Murray was terrible, Nadal was terrible. Roger sucks. Everyone is very terrible. They should all stop playing tennis because they are so terrible. Grow up kid :).

Saberq
10-16-2011, 04:38 PM
Exactly. Djokovic was incredibly lucky to even win that match. In fact, the only reason he won it was because Andy gave it to him.

I agree Djokovic had that match after 1st set then Murray played smarter Novak got tired a bit and Andy took it....he gave him that match ...Novak had no place winning it .....see I can admit some stuff

Saberq
10-16-2011, 04:42 PM
It is not cut and dried that Djokovic will finish his career with a better resume.

LOL

Roadmap
10-16-2011, 04:50 PM
As long as I make you laugh I am a happy chappy.

nomunnofun
10-16-2011, 05:04 PM
Murray only beat one top ten player in majors this year (not that he met too many) - Ferrer in the Aussie Open - which accounted for much of his success in the majors. That will not happen next year!

Sunset of Age
10-16-2011, 05:10 PM
Murray only beat one top ten player in majors this year (not that he met too many) - Ferrer in the Aussie Open - which accounted for much of his success in the majors. That will not happen next year!

You might well say that Murray has so far been the guy who managed to do best to take his chances whenever they came (in Masters I mean). His Masters tournaments tally surely indicates such. I see no reason why that wouldn't continue next year just the same, surely in cases when certain other players decide to take a rest in stead of competing, like it happened this year.

The Magician
10-16-2011, 05:12 PM
OK, so you love Murray and you are 16 yo. Fine with me. I like Andy too but you are being silly. How do you win a tennis match? The winner takes it all. Call it luck or whatever you want but Djokovic won that match. I'm sure you were disappointed. Are you telling me that Djokovic won 3 majors this year because he was lucky? I've seen so many tennis matches in my life. I'm much older than you but hey you know it all, lol.

Was Federer lucky to win 16 slams? Was Rafa lucky to win 10? Was Borg lucky to win 11 majors? Yeah, right. :)

Luck is forgivable. Cheating is the real source of Nadull and Fakervic's "luck" winning slams, which is far more logical and far worse :wavey:

Saberq
10-16-2011, 05:14 PM
Luck is forgivable. Cheating is the real source of Nadull and Fakervic's "luck" winning slams, which is far more logical and far worse :wavey:

Fed cheats too .........

Sapeod
10-16-2011, 05:14 PM
Luck is forgivable. Cheating is the real source of Nadull and Fakervic's "luck" winning slams, which is far more logical and far worse :wavey:
Ah, yes, the cheating. How could I forget about that :lol: Both of their continued faked timeouts, faked injuries, continued bouncing of the ball to disrupt the opponent etc. :lol:

Sapeod
10-16-2011, 05:14 PM
Fed cheats too .........
HAHAHA, how? Explain. How does Federer cheat?

The Magician
10-16-2011, 05:17 PM
Fed cheats too .........

:stupid: I guess if you follow Fakervic religiously you start to lose touch with reality and see his conduct as totally normal. Obviously it would follow that everybody cheats and this is the normal state of tennis. Well sorry to wake you up but Federer is the last honest guy left in tennis and Fakervic is a cheater :wavey:

LawrenceOfTennis
10-16-2011, 05:18 PM
:stupid: I guess if you follow Fakervic religiously you start to lose touch with reality and see his conduct as totally normal. Obviously it would follow that everybody cheats and this is the normal state of tennis. Well sorry to wake you up but Federer is the last honest guy left in tennis and Fakervic is a cheater :wavey:

:worship:

Roadmap
10-16-2011, 05:21 PM
Murray only beat one top ten player in majors this year (not that he met too many) - Ferrer in the Aussie Open - which accounted for much of his success in the majors. That will not happen next year!

Yeah because other guys in the top ten have such a great record against Murray :rolleyes:

Roadmap
10-16-2011, 05:24 PM
People sadly underestimate the skullduggery of repeated time violations. It should not be allowed. The Magician and myself are fairly certain that Nadull and Faker each own a 50 per cent stake in the ATP.

Roadmap
10-16-2011, 05:26 PM
There should be a stop clock that beeps loudly whenever players go over the time 'limit'.

Sapeod
10-16-2011, 05:28 PM
There should be a stop clock that beaps loudly whenever players go over the time 'limit'.
That would certainly help. No doubt that there would be a lot of loud beeps in Djokovic and Nadal matches, not to mention when they play each other :tape:

Alex999
10-16-2011, 05:28 PM
OK, Fakerevic is a cheater. Nadal too. They don't have any skills. They just win their respective matches by cheating. The ATP should do something about it. Magician, do you have any suggestions? I think that both Djokovic and Nadal should be banned. They shouldn't be allowed to play tennis at all. I just talked to Adam Helfant on the phone. He says that he always reads your posts on MTF and that he is going to do something about this cheating thing. He loves your intelligence btw.

So something will be done. It's a good thing, eh? Oh, Mr. Helfant will be phoning you soon to discuss this matter further with you. Have a nice day.

merryploughbhoy
10-16-2011, 05:32 PM
Most likely. Nadal is feeding of the clay season and Monte Carlo, RG. Soon as he fails or a hero emerges again and takes him out of RG then Murray will overtake him. No question about it

This, we can't overstate how massive the french open RG is to Nadal's status and points. If he does'nt win or even worse he goes out in the first week which is very possible, then he will be under alot of pressure for the rest of the year to amass points to keep him in 2nd. I can't see him holding onto it tbh, think he will be kept humble competing for 'mickey mouse' 1000s and 500s to stay in the top 4 in the next couple of years.

Sapeod
10-16-2011, 05:33 PM
OK, Fakerevic is a cheater. Nadal too. They don't have any skills. They just win their respective matches by cheating. The ATP should do something about it. Magician, do you have any suggestions? I think that both Djokovic and Nadal should be banned. They shouldn't be allowed to play tennis at all. I just talked to Adam Helfant on the phone. He says that he always reads your posts on MTF and that he is going to do something about this cheating thing. He loves your intelligence btw.

So something will be done. It's a good thing, eh? Oh, Mr. Helfant will be phoning you soon to discuss this matter further with you. Have a nice day.
They don't only win matches because they cheat. They also have unreal luck on their side and opponents who play badly. Cheating, luck and opponents who play badly = recipe for success.

Roadmap
10-16-2011, 05:33 PM
That would certainly help. No doubt that there would be a lot of loud beeps in Djokovic and Nadal matches, not to mention when they play each other :tape:

Ears would be bleeding. I have not thought this through.

The Magician
10-16-2011, 05:33 PM
OK, Fakerevic is a cheater. Nadal too. They don't have any skills. They just win their respective matches by cheating. The ATP should do something about it. Magician, do you have any suggestions? I think that both Djokovic and Nadal should be banned. They shouldn't be allowed to play tennis at all. I just talked to Adam Helfant on the phone. He says that he always reads your posts on MTF and that he is going to do something about this cheating thing. He loves your intelligence btw.

So something will be done. It's a good thing, eh?

Federer is too old and too rich to care, but one of the things I like about Murray is he wants something done. Everyone knows the ATP is just the family for Don Tony and recently Fakervic and his unscrupulous family. Murray is the only one with the balls to call for a strike to end the charade of the last few years in which more records were illegitimately broken than players exist :o.

Sapeod
10-16-2011, 05:36 PM
Ears would be bleeding. I have not thought this through.
I'm afraid not. We have to think of a better way of alerting people of the time without making them deaf.

Ibracadabra
10-16-2011, 05:40 PM
Another micky mouse tournament added.

merryploughbhoy
10-16-2011, 05:44 PM
Another micky mouse tournament added.

Master 1000s are not MM. Challenger and 250s are Mickey Mouse....

Naudio Spanlatine
10-16-2011, 05:45 PM
Master 1000s are not MM. Challenger and 250s are Mickey Mouse....

it sure does seem like a mickey mouse tournament:o

merryploughbhoy
10-16-2011, 05:49 PM
it sure does seem like a mickey mouse tournament:o

It did have some mickey mouse players at it right enough, guys like Mayer, oh wait....

Ibracadabra
10-16-2011, 06:10 PM
Beating david ferrer in the final of a hardcourt micky mouse event is surely his greatest acheivement to date. Glory beckons

Sham Kay
10-16-2011, 06:13 PM
There should be a stop clock that beeps loudly whenever players go over the time 'limit'.
You kidding? A Nadal - Djokovic match would sound as bad as a Sharapova - Azarenka match with this implemented.. almost.

Naudio Spanlatine
10-16-2011, 06:15 PM
It did have some mickey mouse players at it right enough, guys like Mayer, oh wait....

:fiery: NOW YOU WAIT JUS A MIN..........yes my king has lost to that.......:o Mayer........and the fact that Deliciano Sexpez was able to beat him convincely while rafa played the 2005 version of pushing is jus:o :facepalm:

Sham Kay
10-16-2011, 06:16 PM
Beating david ferrer in the final of a hardcourt micky mouse event is surely his greatest acheivement to date. Glory beckons
Well Ferrer poses a greater challenge to the three I see in your sig/avatar.. not saying much, but still he's pretty tough.

Sham Kay
10-16-2011, 06:20 PM
:fiery: NOW YOU WAIT JUS A MIN..........yes my king has lost to that.......:o Mayer........and the fact that Deliciano Sexpez was able to beat him convincely while rafa played the 2005 version of pushing is jus:o :facepalm:
Haha, I like your writing style. Reminds me of a 8 year old cousin of mine texting.

No shame in losing to Mayer really, he's tricky when he's on. Pretty sure he's a bad match up.

Ibracadabra
10-16-2011, 06:22 PM
Well Ferrer poses a greater challenge to the three I see in your sig/avatar.. not saying much, but still he's pretty tough.

I love delpo and daveed for who they are and the tennis they play, just so happens dpot has a slam and this overated mug doesn't. Go fgure

Naudio Spanlatine
10-16-2011, 06:24 PM
Haha, I like your writing style. Reminds me of a 8 year old cousin of mine texting.

No shame in losing to Mayer really, he's tricky when he's on. Pretty sure he's a bad match up.

is this sarcasism:confused: :unsure:

Sapeod
10-16-2011, 06:26 PM
is this sarcasism:confused: :unsure:
He's not being sarcastic.

yesh222
10-16-2011, 06:27 PM
Murray might catch Nadal after Indian Wells and Miami if Rafa can't keep it up. Rafa does have to defend a lot of points but one title basically makes up for 2 runner-ups, and Rafa didn't win many titles early last year.

Mechlan
10-16-2011, 07:54 PM
Listen guys, Murray didn't give anything away. Novak won that match fair and square. Murray wasn't able to close that match. Was Novak lucky? I personally don't believe in luck. Was he mentally stronger than Andy in Rome? Probably. It's all a learning experience. Look at the Novak vs. Roger match in New York this year. Down 2 match points and still smiling. He won.

I remember so many matches when Novak played well and he was a "better player" but he lost. I'm thinking of the USO 2007, Hamburg and Madrid when he played vs Nadal and lost miserably. I can go on and on . I think we all create our luck and our misery. I do believe that Murray is a very smart player. Tennis is extremely competitive at the top level.

It's a little luck, a little confidence. Tennis is sometimes a game that comes down to a handful of points and inches. When you have the confidence that Novak has this year, those matches somehow tend to slide your way. When you don't have it, they seem to slip from your grasp.

Matt01
10-16-2011, 08:01 PM
Luck is forgivable. Cheating is the real source of Nadull and Fakervic's "luck" winning slams, which is far more logical and far worse :wavey:


And where's your proof for that accusation, troll? :yawn:


OK, Fakerevic is a cheater. Nadal too. They don't have any skills. They just win their respective matches by cheating. The ATP should do something about it. Magician, do you have any suggestions? I think that both Djokovic and Nadal should be banned. They shouldn't be allowed to play tennis at all. I just talked to Adam Helfant on the phone. He says that he always reads your posts on MTF and that he is going to do something about this cheating thing. He loves your intelligence btw.

So something will be done. It's a good thing, eh? Oh, Mr. Helfant will be phoning you soon to discuss this matter further with you. Have a nice day.


:lol:

Naudio Spanlatine
10-16-2011, 08:01 PM
Federer won seven matches at Roland Garros 2009. Nadull got spanked by Soderling.

Because rafa was INJURED on BOTH OF HIS KNEES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Roadmap
10-16-2011, 08:03 PM
If you say so.

Sapeod
10-16-2011, 08:03 PM
Because rafa was INJURED on BOTH OF HIS KNEES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wrong, he wasn't injured at all. Soderling just wiped the clay with him because he was far better.

Naudio Spanlatine
10-16-2011, 08:06 PM
^ Like i said........HE WAS INJURED ON BOTH KNEES......

Lemme add, he had a TENDINITIS on BOTH OF HIS KNEES!!!!!!

EddieNero
10-16-2011, 08:07 PM
Without winning a slam he can't even dream about taking the number two spot.
ATP is shit but not as bad as WTA to have a slamless leader or vice-leader, unless Nadal breaks apart and starts to crash out in R16/QF of all slams.

Sapeod
10-16-2011, 08:09 PM
^ Like i said........HE WAS INJURED ON BOTH KNEES......

Lemme add, he had a TENDINITIS on BOTH OF HIS KNEES!!!!!!
Wrong, he wasn't injured at all. Soderling was just better. End of story.

Roadmap
10-16-2011, 08:21 PM
The only reason Nadull lost this years US Open final was because of the burnt finger he was suffering from. It also cost him dearly in the Toyko final.

LawrenceOfTennis
10-16-2011, 08:24 PM
I respect this dude Murray, just don't understand why he cannot hit the forehands deep.

Naudio Spanlatine
10-16-2011, 08:24 PM
^^o now you wanna be smartie pants here, im sure your comment is to make front of him....either that or something else

rocketassist
10-16-2011, 08:33 PM
Nadal's 'injury' against Soderling was caused, by magic, by his parents' divorce.

Sham Kay
10-16-2011, 09:08 PM
is this sarcasism:confused: :unsure:
It's uncanny.

Naudio Spanlatine
10-16-2011, 09:11 PM
It's uncanny.

o!......?

Sham Kay
10-16-2011, 09:16 PM
^ Like i said........HE WAS INJURED ON BOTH KNEES......

Lemme add, he had a TENDINITIS on BOTH OF HIS KNEES!!!!!!
If I ever need to make a parody of the Nadal fans on MTF, I need to look no further than you to represent all of them. You sum all of them up perfectly, though in a hilarious way. Got talent bro'.