Andy and Brad is the honeymoon over? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Andy and Brad is the honeymoon over?

Fumus
10-06-2004, 08:44 PM
After a union that yielded a grand slam and a year end number 1 in 2003, 2004 was a year full of dissapointment and missed oppertunities....


Are they staying together or spliting? Should they or shouldn't they? This is the official thread of rumors and speculation...wait wait isn't that everythread in MTF? :devil: discuss..

Dirk
10-06-2004, 08:55 PM
Why is it Brad fault? It won't happen. I think Brad will be with Andy till the end. Being number 2 and soon to be number 3 isn't bad. Andy has risen quickly and could still have a really great career. Just have to wait and see Fumus.

Deboogle!.
10-06-2004, 09:48 PM
well we've discussed a lot over the past few weeks, I think Andy and Brad may have hit the wall in terms of Andy's game improving but I don't see them splitting any time soon. It would be nice if Brad could put some of his pride aside and bring in some shot specialists to get Andy better with his backhand, maybe a special coach to help him on clay, etc. but I dunno if Brad is capable.

MissPovaFan
10-06-2004, 10:03 PM
I dont really think Andy Roddick has had a 'bad' year at all - its just Federer has become super-human all of a sudden :cool:

Nishy
10-06-2004, 10:34 PM
I agree with Deb's opinion.

martirogi
10-06-2004, 10:46 PM
andy isn't marat, he can't change coaches all the time

Deboogle!.
10-06-2004, 11:04 PM
I agree, Paul, but there are problems with Andy's year this year that have nothing to do with Roger. His losses at RG and USO are simply unexplainable and should not have happened. that is a problem and that has nothing to do with Roger. He lost every 5-set match he played this year, and many of the close 3-out-of-3 setters too, that's a problem. He should be SOLIDLY in the #2 position but instead Hewitt has a great chance to overtake him, that should not be the case.

But that said I don't blame Brad any more than Andy or anything like that and I don't think he deserves to be fired.

Havok
10-07-2004, 12:24 AM
If Andy is having such a terrible year, I fear what you say about the rest of the ATP tour :scared:.

RodFan08
10-07-2004, 12:54 AM
If Andy is having such a terrible year, I fear what you say about the rest of the ATP tour :scared:.

I know, but I think most people here are going by 2003 standards. If people are expecting the same 2003, I'm sorry, but that's not gonna happen all the time. 2003 was a great year for Andy, but it's very hard to produce great tennis consistently. Don't get me wrong he do it again, but I think he will have to still improve. I know I sound like a perfectionis, but for him to play at the #1 level, he just needs to add alittle versatility.

superpinkone37
10-07-2004, 01:43 AM
well we've discussed a lot over the past few weeks, I think Andy and Brad may have hit the wall in terms of Andy's game improving but I don't see them splitting any time soon. It would be nice if Brad could put some of his pride aside and bring in some shot specialists to get Andy better with his backhand, maybe a special coach to help him on clay, etc. but I dunno if Brad is capable.

geez Deb, why do you always say exactly what i want to say, but better? :p but yeah, i totally agree with you...andy's improvments seem to have stopped, but its not totally brad's fault. i agree that he should get someone to work on the technical stuff, but i dont think that will happen. but for some reason i like brad, and i think he and andy are good together for the most part. i dont see them splitting any time soon either. and going off of what naldo said, i dont know why andy and brad should be splitting-- i mean andy is freaking number 2 in the world, and wont finish under 3 this year. sure hes been losing some matches he shouldnt have, but that doesnt mean he's a total failure this year and should dump brad. thats just my opinion though :shrug:

Havok
10-07-2004, 01:55 AM
I know, but I think most people here are going by 2003 standards. If people are expecting the same 2003, I'm sorry, but that's not gonna happen all the time. 2003 was a great year for Andy, but it's very hard to produce great tennis consistently. Don't get me wrong he do it again, but I think he will have to still improve. I know I sound like a perfectionis, but for him to play at the #1 level, he just needs to add alittle versatility.
I know but last year there wasn't one guy who was winning everything and making the tour very boring like this year. That's why I said what I said. If next year Federer actually looses more and doesn't win as much as this year, then you can compare the next year to 2003 season. Comparing this year to last year really isn't fair because of the domination from Roger.;)

superpinkone37
10-07-2004, 01:59 AM
I know but last year there wasn't one guy who was winning everything and making the tour very boring like this year. That's why I said what I said. If next year Federer actually looses more and doesn't win as much as this year, then you can compare the next year to 2003 season. Comparing this year to last year really isn't fair because of the domination from Roger.;)

that is very true. and a lot of people think andy's year sucked but its hard to repeat that awesome summer he had last year. and next year if federer doesnt defend his titles i think people are gonna be saying kinda the same thing (though they will probably give him more of a break because he's god afterall ;) ). i think next year it will be a little more spread out among the top three or four. fed cant possibly defend all those titles and if he does then more power to him, but its kinda impossible imo. that will give some of the others more of a chance. :)

MisterQ
10-07-2004, 06:17 AM
It's quite rare that a top player has several exceptional years in a row without a relative low point in between. How many players in the last 15 years have won a major the year after their first one? Courier, Rafter, Hewitt, Federer, Bruguera... That's about it. Not even Andre and Pete.

I think Andy's year was fine. Not his best, but not bad.

andy's 2004 results (http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/playerprofiles/playeractivity/default.asp?player=R485)

As others have said, Federer robbed Andy of a lot of glory this year, but such is life. Hopefully Andy will try to improve and work harder. That's the good news -- there is still plenty of room for improvement in his game.

Deboogle!.
10-07-2004, 06:29 AM
After seeing the match Andy played against Marat, I feel a lot differently. It was the first match Andy played in a long time where all of his improvements really showed and worked together well - namely, his returning, movement, net/transition game, and backhand... and of course the mental strength. So now I know, I saw with my own eyes, the improvement exists. He just needs to work on having all of that working consistently and now I'm convinced that the more relaxed he is, the more this comes together. He was just playing SO freely against Marat, that the shots were going in and stuff. I don't know how he can find or get to the mental place where he can feel comfortable putting all of these improved aspects of his game together so that they gel and work as a complete game for him match after match, but before I was really questioning the improvements, now I strongly believe the improvements are all there, but that he's just having trouble putting it all together and being confident in it all.

And that's ok, considering this is really the first year where he's had all these different things at his disposal at this extent. So I just hope he keeps working on it all and that he keeps taking risks in matches so that he can get to the point where he is confident and loose enough to make this the way his game is day in and day out.

I really hope that made sense:o

superpinkone37
10-07-2004, 07:11 AM
oh it does make sense :) just after reading what you wrote in the other thread about andy's match against marat, i felt a lot better, as it sounds like andy played really well. i would be able to tell more about how he played if i had seen the match, but that option is unavaliable to me at the moment lol. but i trust your judgement, and it by how you have described it, it makes me want to see it even more.

after you know, kinda doubting andy, not really being impressed with him recently, thats really something i needed to hear about with his improvements and all that :) and after hearing about the quality of his play, and his improvements both with his backhand and mentality, i wonder how he would have done against roger if it werent for him being absolutely exhausted and/ or the injury.

im looking forward to the rest of the year and next year, of course to see how its all gonna play out. and again, how people-- even me-- have said that he has not had a very good year....well except for those number of close matches that he should have won, he couldnt have done too terribly to earn himself a handful of tournaments and a number 2 ranking

k-rod83
10-07-2004, 11:34 AM
i think people are forgeting that lleyton had a bad year last year and has had a great year this year....andys not had a great year by his standards...next year can only get better.

Éowyn
10-07-2004, 10:51 PM
bad rep me all you like for this but this has gotta be said...doesn't anyone remember last year, i know i was not the only person online that said i would expect to see andy improve as a player this year and not win as much! Roger has taken the year by storm and no one not even andy had a chance of stopping that. short of brad taking a bat to roger's back there is not much he could have done!

i'm am so damn fed up of the bad mouthing of brad last year everyone was hailing him as andy's saviou for christ sake can't anyone just admit that roger has outplayed andy this year. andy needs brad, brad covers andy's back when it's needed and andy wants brad around and thats good for him. it's for andy to decide no one else!

some people have messaged me recently asking how come i don't post in here so much now, well this is one of the answers! people in GM have more respect for brad and what he does than half of the so called andy fans! Andy has done well this year, he is second in the world to someone who he had no chance of catching. which means he is in the BEST position he could be!

Also not winning so many tournaments puts andy in quite a good position for next year as he'll improve. leave off brad and look at the good things he has done you CANNOT say that andy has not improved this yearm he has! his net play has improved, his back hand has improved and his all roudn game has improved! even andy said he did not expect the run he had last year and he himself was surprised to finish world number 1. he expected it to happen eventually but not that soon. and if anyone here is honest i would say most of us thought the same thing.

Andy is still young and still improving and brad is a big part of that! so leave off!

star
10-07-2004, 11:49 PM
:lol:

Why would anyone bad rep you for that?

Besides, I just scrolled back and saw hardly a bad word about Brad in this thread.

snaillyyy
10-08-2004, 12:07 AM
I dont think there is any need for bad reps..this thread was designed for a discussion which inevitably results in different opinions. I have mentioned to others on MSN, that it is hard not to compare this year to 2003, it was an amazing year and I just want him to continue to do well. Brad may not be my favorite person but what matters is his relationship with Andy, he has done alot to help Andy both mentally and pyhsically and they appear to have a great relationship. Andy has added new dimensions to his game with the improved backhand, better results at the net, plus he is stronger and has better movement around the court. I just get the feeling that he hasnt quite grasped how to incooperate all this into his game on a consistent basis and be confident he can do it all. It is an ongoing process for Andy & Brad and IMO they have reached that point where they have to decided which direction to go next, and I certainly dont think Andy needs to get rid of Brad.

Andy will more than likely finish the year at #2 or #3, and I am sure (with the exception of Roger) any one of the other guys would love to be in that postition. 2005 should prove to be a very interesting year for all the players.

J. Corwin
10-08-2004, 12:15 AM
There is no need to bad rep you at all, shell. :) Andy's year is considered by many to be disappointing because everyone has much greater expectations from him now. Had this year's result occured last year, it would have been considered GREAT following the 2002 he had. I don't think Brad and Andy should split because of this quieter year from Andy..and I don't think they will, if they're smart. We'll have to see what Brad will work with Andy on over this off-season at the end of the year. :cool:

Havok
10-08-2004, 12:29 AM
I didn't bad mouth Brad. I actually like him:o as a coach though;)

Éowyn
10-08-2004, 12:47 AM
:lol:

Why would anyone bad rep you for that?

Besides, I just scrolled back and saw hardly a bad word about Brad in this thread.


because i was referring to the whole argument about brad not just this thread, i see it in almost every thread and it bugs me, and coz usually when i give my view on things i get bad repped for it so thats why i'd expect it

Havok
10-08-2004, 01:22 AM
Who bad reps you?:scared: I think I've dished out like 5 bad reps between here and wtaw ever since it's been established. Bad reps are dumb, though I good rep people so :retard: (but it isn't as childish as bad reps;))

Éowyn
10-08-2004, 02:05 AM
can't remember who it was i've only had like 3, 1 was from sigmagirl coz i bad repped her and the other 2 were from people in here (i won't say who) when i defended brad last time and that pissed me off!

Havok
10-08-2004, 02:08 AM
Ah sigmagirl. Ive gotten a few bad reps from her:retard: though i gave her good reps back, just to stick it to the bad reppers:p

star
10-08-2004, 02:00 PM
can't remember who it was i've only had like 3, 1 was from sigmagirl coz i bad repped her and the other 2 were from people in here (i won't say who) when i defended brad last time and that pissed me off!

Well, yeah! That would piss me off too. There's no call for Andy fans to be bad repping other Andy fans. Goodness knows we can get enough bad feelings from GM; we dont' need to spread it around in here.

So now I know why you posted the way you did. At first I was like....... uh... this guy is a little worked up. :lol:

:lol: nAldo. I good repped sigmagirl back too when she bad repped me. That's what I do with bad reppers...... either ignore them or good rep them back. :)

I only gave out one..... possibly two bad reps on WTAW, and then I realized I didn't want to get into that negative kind of game. I feel lots better when I don't bad rep people.

Fumus
10-08-2004, 02:48 PM
Nice avatar Shell_of_myself.

1.Brad is the best coach in tennis, there is no doubt in my mind. Brad did so much for Andre's and Andy's game, he has coached 2 players to number 1 in the world. I suspect that they will be together for a few years, Andy still has much to learn from the wise master.

2.I agree with Deb, Andy needs to play loose, and let it flow. Andy's personality isn't like Andre's or Brads where he's so serious when he plays. Andy is great when he is just bouncing around like a Bryan brother :bounce: and letting it all hangout. That's the key to beating Federer or anyone, fooling around and having a good time. Remember when he beat Fed, that was his attitude in that match. (between the legs volley...lol) That's not winning ugly, that's winning Andy!

3.Winning on clay is something Andy can do, he just need to be patient, and learn to enjoy long rallies. I think this is something Brad can help Andy understand.

4.Let's see 160 ;)

Nishy
10-08-2004, 05:04 PM
Winning Andy! lol

I like this.
I also agree about playing loose.

RonE
10-08-2004, 06:05 PM
Just because a player has a slight drop in results from one year to the next is no reason to fire the coach. A lot of people immediately start blaming the coach for results (or lack thereof) of any given player.

As was already said, this year in iyself was not bad at all, in fact it was quite superb- but, when compared to 2003 it does come off as mediocre.

Besides, there is only so much a coach can do for a player. Beyond that it is up to the player to choose his strategies wisely and apply himself on the court.

And the whole issue of Federer is a moot point- no matter who coaches Andy it would not have stopped Federer from having had the year he has.

Brad is a very valuable asset to Andy and I'm sure he feels that way too- from the transcripts and what I have heard Andy really does admire and look up to Brad and while Brad has put his foot in his mouth on more than one occassion in his life, he is still viewed by Andy as a mentor and father figure that helps him put things into the right perspective.

tangerine_dream
10-08-2004, 06:52 PM
Andy has added new dimensions to his game with the improved backhand, better results at the net, plus he is stronger and has better movement around the court. I just get the feeling that he hasnt quite grasped how to incooperate all this into his game on a consistent basis and be confident he can do it all. It is an ongoing process for Andy & Brad and IMO they have reached that point where they have to decided which direction to go next, and I certainly dont think Andy needs to get rid of Brad.

I agree with Carole. The honeymoon period may be over but like any good marriage, it takes work to keep things running smoothly. ;) Andy has obviously improved his game a lot but emotionally, he still regresses, which is not Brad's fault. Andy just needs to do a little more growing up.

There's a passage in Brad's book about athletes and anger and he talks about Andy's anger problem. I'll type it up later for you guys.

Fumus
10-08-2004, 07:01 PM
And the whole issue of Federer is a moot point- no matter who coaches Andy it would not have stopped Federer from having had the year he has.


Incorrect, I believe with a better ROS, backhand and better volley skills Andy could over take Federer. That is where superior coaching plays an important role. Andy has the talent he just needs to be groomed a bit.


I agree with Carole. The honeymoon period may be over but like any good marriage, it takes work to keep things running smoothly. Andy has obviously improved his game a lot but emotionally, he still regresses, which is not Brad's fault. Andy just needs to do a little more growing up.


The honeymoon is over and Andy is sexually frustrated in this marraige..lol..j/k
Some big changes need to made to Andy's game if he wants to compete with Fed for numero uno. If Brad can't facilatate these then he must be left by the wayside for someone who can.

Havok
10-08-2004, 08:08 PM
If Brad can't do it, then who can? All the other "good" coaches are taken, so might as well stick with Brad non?

Deboogle!.
10-08-2004, 08:26 PM
surely there are "specific" coaches that are available. Surely there is someone out there who is an expert at volleying/taking the ball early/movement/backhands/clay guile, etc. who Brad could bring in to help Andy.

Tangy, can't wait to read what BG says about Andy's anger... thank you in advance! :kiss:

I still don't think these issues have one iota to do with Roger - IMO many of Andy's problems, most obviously the losses at RG and USO - obviously have absolutely ZERO to do with Roger. There are two different issues at play - the fact that Andy's year is not as good because he ran into Roger in two big finals, AND the fact that Andy lost a few big matches that he simply should have won. These are mutually exclusive and should be analyzed as such.

Fumus
10-08-2004, 08:36 PM
Deb they are the same problems with different people. Andy never plays his best against Fed, (excluding his win last year and wimbly) and in those big matches he lost because he didn't play his best. The problem is Andy couldn't shift into a higher gear more readily in the big matches. It's just the same problem across the board.

Deboogle!.
10-08-2004, 08:38 PM
Viewed in that context, I agree. but what you're saying is not the same thing as "Andy's year wasn't as good because Fed was too good" which is what a few other people have said - does that make sense?

Why are you not replying on AIM?

Fumus
10-08-2004, 08:40 PM
I edited my post to make it more consise. Well inorder to answer my aim, I would have to able to use aim. At work it's blocked off now...firewalled from me..so I have to be at home to use it. Sooo....aww..actually you can mail me @ Ryan.Martin@dfa.state.ny.us and we can chat if you want...

Deboogle!.
10-08-2004, 08:42 PM
then you should sign off or let yourself be idle when you aren't there :o lol... just ignore my messages, then, when you get home - they will be irrelevant LOL.

I understand your point completely, and I agree completely. You and I are saying pretty much the same thing just coming at it from a different angle. What you are saying is still different than just saying "Well compared to Fed anyone would have a bad year but Andy's year was ok" - do you see the difference?

Dirk
10-08-2004, 08:51 PM
Fumus, Andy has improved over the past year but it will take time for him to develop a great return, backhand and volleys. Those skills will not be enhanced overnight. Another thing you must consider is that maybe Andy can't become a great returner or volleyer??? You simply want to give Andy assets he doesn't have yet or maybe ever. It's like giving Rogi Andy's service pace. Some things will never materialize. He played great at Wimbly but Rogi played better than him on the bigger points, plus Andy was getting wore down because of Rogi's returning and forcing Andy to play much more than his body is use to. Andy just has his limits and its unlikely coaching will change that since Andy is too damn impatient for long term results. What you are suggesting takes more than a season to develop. I suspect he will get better and will score some more wins over Rogi and other top guys on his way to winning a more slams but he will never be the most gifted player on the tour. When that player plays his best Andy will always be below him. Just need to accept it.

Fumus
10-08-2004, 08:52 PM
Yea, I still believe, as opposed to other people that Andy can beat Roger(yes even when Roger is playing his best). Andy has the talent, he just needs 1) confidence and 2) play loose. I agree Roger didn't give Andy a dissapointing year, Andy gave Andy a dissapointing year. He just needs to shift the gears in 05'.

Éowyn
10-08-2004, 08:52 PM
At first I was like....... uh... this guy is a little worked up. :lol:

not a guy! me = JJ = GIRL :D

Nice avatar Shell_of_myself.

thanks! gotta show the robby love :)

Andy is great when he is just bouncing around like a Bryan brother :bounce:

love that phrase! lols :)

Dirk
10-08-2004, 08:54 PM
Andre didn't win a slam till 92 so does that mean all the years prior to that were bad? Pete didn't win his 2nd slam after 90 Open till 93 Wimbly so does that mean 91 and 92 sucked too? You andy fans need to take it easy and enjoy what he has done this year. You don't see the Hewitt fans freaking out over his year because he went slamless for another year.

Dirk
10-08-2004, 08:56 PM
Fumus please read my old PM about Andy vs. Rogi. The long one. ;) You will see why its impossible for andy to beat Rogi when he is playing his best.

Fumus
10-08-2004, 08:58 PM
Dirk...nothing is impossible in tennis when you are Andy Roddick. :)

Dirk
10-08-2004, 09:03 PM
Dirk...nothing is impossible in tennis when you are Andy Roddick. :)

Love is indeed blind.

Éowyn
10-08-2004, 09:03 PM
debstah that is not what people are saying! the point is alot of people are criticizing andy for not being number 1, and only being number 2 but being number 2 to federer is no bad thing (god i hate to say that) the fact is yes andy has not had as good a year as SOME people expected, but not everyone expected him to storm it this year, i've been saying all year i expected this year to be consolidation year, maybe it's just me coming from a football (the real kind) background and being english that i look at things more openly than some (not all) americans who are used to dominating everything! no i'm not insulting anyone it's just peoples view points will differ on the way they look at things!

some people think finishing 2nd is the end of the world, but it's what they always say it's not the winning that counts but how you play and i think most people if they were objective would say they probably enjoy the way andy plays much more than feds, but feds is much more effective! but next year ALL the pressure is on federer to continue this yeras run and match it! and it will be very very hard for him to do! he'll also have so many race points to defend if he drops just a few extra games he will lose alot of points and thats when people like andy and lleyton (honestly i can't see anyone else managing it but who knows) will have to take their chance and start gaining on fed! and i think that will happen! i'm not saying they'll knock fed off but they may start catching him, people will start realising what they need to do and work harder. no one can question andy's determination to win, but i think sometimes he goes about it the wrong way, sometimes he gives other players too much respect and changes his game too much for them. but at others times (not as often but sometimes) he underestimates people! or expects too much respect from them and doesn't get it.

I still think mardy and andy would do well to train together more i think they both could help each other out and i think brad is still really helping andy get his head straight! he has his lapses yes buthe's getting there!

Éowyn
10-08-2004, 09:08 PM
dirk! nothing is impossible full stop! and love means nothing! you can't say it's impossible for andy to beat roger he has doen it before and so have others, tim, dominik etc it is NOT impossible to beat him!

Deboogle!.
10-08-2004, 09:09 PM
ok shell. great, but none of that has anything to do with the problems in Andy's game. You didn't refute Fumus's and my points at all - that Andy's issues are ANDY's, not anything to do with the fact that Roger had an amazing year. This has nothing at all to do with Andy's rank or anything like that. You proved my point exactly, actually LOL. Fumigator and I are not talking about Andy's year as one big whole, we are picking it apart and saying that there are a few matches that Andy should NOT have lost, no matter what, and that this is a problem. This is irrespective of Roger or the fact that Andy's year as taken on a whole was pretty good. Totally separate.

Dirk
10-08-2004, 09:13 PM
As long as Rogi defends most of his points it will be tough to pass him. I do think unless he gets injuried he will be number 1 in 05 as well. The other guys are not the only ones who will be improving. Rogi could stay at the same level and he would only lose here and there on the tour but he will work on some things as well. Rogi is a special talent who does things Andy cannot do. Pete didn't defend all of his points when he was number one each year to maintain his position. He defended most of them and won points in different events. Andre was only number one in 99 and he has 59 titles, Gold Medal, 17 Masters, 8 Slams, and a Master Cup. I don't think that is something to be ashamed of. He was the 2nd best player in that decade.

Éowyn
10-08-2004, 09:22 PM
i never said andy's problems aren't andys coz i agree ther are but i also believe that andy needs brad to help him with that!

what i am saying is that people don't seem to understand what a bad year is! a bad year would be messing everything up and going out of EVERYTHING in the first round or messing up every game he shoudl have won!

there have been some major under acheivers this year, JC etc most players would kill to have a year liek andys and most fans would kill for their fave players to have a year like andys yet most so called andy fans are gutted when andy loses one match! yes i don't like seeing andy lose i feel sorry for him coz i know it upsets him but i think in someways it's what andy needs, you can't win them all and you have to lose some to appreciate the ones you win!

my main point is that fact that this is not as bad as people make out! it's like all the man utd fans in england (or should i say anywhere except manchester) they're all sulking that their not in the top 5 after 7 matches of the season! they have a bad run they drop to 6th any other team has a bad run they drop out of the division or worse league! if andy drops outof top 10 then he's in trouble! then you start worrying coz he should never be dropping lower than that with the skill he has!

Deboogle!.
10-08-2004, 09:24 PM
No one is saying Andy had a bad year. Good, we can put this rhetoric to rest now

Dirk
10-08-2004, 09:27 PM
dirk! nothing is impossible full stop! and love means nothing! you can't say it's impossible for andy to beat roger he has doen it before and so have others, tim, dominik etc it is NOT impossible to beat him!

Shell I never said Andy won't beat Rogi again. In fact I typed that he would in one of my latest posts in this thread. My point is that he can't beat Rogi when Rogi plays his best because Rogi prevents Andy from playing his best while he is playing at his peak. Reason 1: When Rogi is at his best, what weapon of his hurts Andy while he is serving??????? RETURN That right there reduces Andy's performance level. It cuts his ace count and unreturnable count down and gives Rogi more chances to win points vs. other opponents. Reason 2: Rogi takes the ball early on both sides. That allows Rogi to play at a faster pace than Andy thus enabling Andy to make more errors or have more winners hit against him because he cannot keep up with Rogi's pace of play. You combine those two reasons along with the third one....Variety and you have the poison to defeat Andy and keep him from reaching his best level. You can say the same applies to Andre when playing Andy except for reason 3.

Let me repeat this yet again. Andy can beat Rogi but Rogi has to play sub par or just par for it to happen. I do think he will beat Rogi several more times and maybe mutiple times next year. When Rogi plays well Andy will lose but can still play great. When Rogi plays great or at his best then Andy cannot reach his highest gear.

I hope you understand now Shell.

Éowyn
10-08-2004, 09:30 PM
Pete didn't defend all of his points when he was number one each year to maintain his position. He defended most of them and won points in different events. Andre was only number one in 99 and he has 59 titles, Gold Medal, 17 Masters, 8 Slams, and a Master Cup. I don't think that is something to be ashamed of. He was the 2nd best player in that decade.


there was a great article written about this just after wimbledon! and i have to say i agree, the fact is the rivalry between pete and andre was actually closer to a domination andre rarely managed to beat pete but they always put on good matches and when he did win them they were always special! andre never quite managed to match pete but ALOT of people would and still do prefer andre coz of the way he played and the way he would always try.

yes andy may only ever be the agassi to rogers sampras but that is no bad thing, but he CAN challenge roger more than people give him credit for, do not think roger is unbeatable, he is only unbeatable if you all believe he is. Tennis is a mental game aswell as physical and as in anything if you go in believeing you are gonna lose then chances are you will! if andy believes he can beat fed he will eventually, it may take 10 tries but it'll happen. but even if he doesn't beat him everytime as i say it will be no bad thing!

you don't always have to be the best! just be the best you can be! and that is andys problem that at the moment he is not the best he can be! and he knows that and he still says that and he'll keep working on it and as long as he does then i'll support him!

Havok
10-08-2004, 09:30 PM
Who the hell is freaking out?

Havok
10-08-2004, 09:33 PM
Please, people give Andy not shot in hell at beating Roger, yet give others a huge chance to beat Federer *coughs* Safin *coughs*, though Andy offers up the most resiliance of the top guys, as well as Agassi. It's fun to hear what people write.:)

Dirk
10-08-2004, 09:38 PM
Naldo if you read my posts carefullly you would know I am not one of them.

MisterQ
10-08-2004, 09:48 PM
Pete had the upper hand in the rivalry against Andre, but the head-to-head was never as lopsided as Roddick/Federer. Andre ended up 14-20 against Pete, which comes to down to 3 matches (it could be 17-17). Because the big matches in Wimbledon and the USO all went to Pete, people tend to think it was more lopsided than it actually was...

I hope Andy can win a few against Roger. It will make things much more interesting when they meet in future finals.

Dirk
10-08-2004, 10:02 PM
Andre had lots of success against Pete. It wasn't domination as the press would say. Andre got the better of Pete a lot near the end too.

Havok
10-08-2004, 10:08 PM
Did I drop your name in there Dirk? No I didn't, so there's no need for your clarification.

Dirk
10-08-2004, 10:16 PM
Just thought you were referring to me since you posted that post after I was the only one to challenge the other Andy fans' views. Guess it was a concidence. ;)

star
10-08-2004, 10:22 PM
guy girl

It's all the same to me. :)

star
10-08-2004, 11:12 PM
you don't always have to be the best! just be the best you can be! and that is andys problem that at the moment he is not the best he can be! and he knows that and he still says that and he'll keep working on it and as long as he does then i'll support him!

Absolutely!!! :worship:

Where would we all be if we only supported the BEST player or the BEST teams. Yuck.

That would mean that all of us would have to be fans of only ONE player or ONE team. That's not the kind of fan I am. I like all sorts of players, and sometimes I like players who aren't working at being the best they can be. *cough Xavier *cough ;)

superpinkone37
10-09-2004, 01:59 AM
wow this thread went a long way today from what it was yesterday :p i dont have anything to say on the topic though, at least not right now, i think i have already said what i wanted earlier

Deboogle!.
10-09-2004, 02:08 AM
Where would we all be if we only supported the BEST player or the BEST teams. Yuck.


Amen!! Which is why none of us (well I can only speak for myself) are not at all disappointed that Andy will finish the year most likely 3 (or maybe 2 if he gets his patootie in gear for the last few big tournies). I just want Andy to be the best HE can be. *sings Army jingle*

And I know in my heart that he was capable of winning some of the biggest matches he lost this year. So that's where, for me, any of the disappointment I have (which isn't much) for this year comes from.

Éowyn
10-09-2004, 02:49 AM
Andre had lots of success against Pete. It wasn't domination as the press would say. Andre got the better of Pete a lot near the end too.


you just said it yourself in the END! yes andre eventually got the hang of beat same as andy will with roger! people seem to forget how young the lads are! give em a chance

Éowyn
10-09-2004, 02:55 AM
Absolutely!!! :worship:

Where would we all be if we only supported the BEST player or the BEST teams. Yuck.

That would mean that all of us would have to be fans of only ONE player or ONE team. That's not the kind of fan I am. I like all sorts of players, and sometimes I like players who aren't working at being the best they can be. *cough Xavier *cough ;)

exactly my point :) hell i support fulham and england i know what it's like to lose!

tangerine_dream
10-11-2004, 01:40 AM
exactly my point :) hell i support fulham and england i know what it's like to lose!

Us Mardy Fish fans are a hardy lot, too. ;)