Will Djokovic finally overtake Nadal ? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Will Djokovic finally overtake Nadal ?

duong
03-25-2011, 04:07 PM
The situation is quite clear now : the great battle starts between the best two players of their generation, who are both at the peak age for tennis (24-25 years old).

They met in last tournament's final in Indian Wells, where Nadal dominated the beginning but Djokovic managed to get ahead.

They also met in the final of the last slam where Nadal was not injured : that time Nadal reigned.

Nadal and Djokovic have had long battles together, especially on clay, which is going to arrive soon.

In 2008, Djokovic had a great start of the year, quite similar to this year, winning Australian Open (losing only one set to Tsonga after defeating Fed in straights) and winning Indian Wells (crushing Nadal 6-3 6-2).

He was praised as the next number 1 and as a certain shot at number 2.

But the stubborn Nadal halted him in every match where the number 2 was at stake : Hamburg, Roland-Garros, Queens.

Which broke Djokovic's confidence, who lost to Safin in Wimbledon.

In 2009, Nadal and Djokovic had huge battles on clay : Monte-Carlo, Roma, Madrid.

Djokovic had match points to finally beat him on clay ... but no : it's still 9-0 on clay for Nadal, Djokovic leads 8-7 on other surfaces (8-5 on hardcourts)

This battle with Nadal once again broke Djokovic's confidence in the next months.

Then what will happen now between the best two players in the world ?
the "best ever" (Nadal according to Djokovic) and "one of the best players of all times" (Djokovic according to Nadal)

Will Djokovic finally manage to beat Nadal on clay ?

Will he get the number 1 ?

Nadal has to get 725 points more than Djokovic to stay ahead of him after Wimbledon. Will he defend that ?

Say what you think ;)

samanosuke
03-25-2011, 04:11 PM
Can't see anybody stopping nadal on the clay , crucial thing will be nadal's result at wimby, and than if nole can have better american HC season he will overtake rafa after USO

Branimir
03-25-2011, 04:19 PM
Nole can do it. Nole can and will beat Nadal on clay this year.

paseo
03-25-2011, 04:34 PM
He's already there. Adje!

Nole Rules
03-25-2011, 04:36 PM
He can do it and hopefully he will.

LawrenceOfTennis
03-25-2011, 04:41 PM
how would that be possible ever? I mean, I admire Djokovic's game and his careeer, he's really great, but there is only 11 months between them, and Nadal already has 9 slams and I guess he won't stop here.....Djoko has 2 slams and will have acouple more I'm sure but never 9

Topspindoctor
03-25-2011, 04:43 PM
Say what you think ;)

Why is a Fedtard so concerned about Nadal? :retard:

He'll do just fine on clay, still unbeatable like last year.

duong
03-25-2011, 04:49 PM
Why is a Fedtard so concerned about Nadal? :retard:

He'll do just fine on clay, still unbeatable like last year.

Clay_death asks questions about Fed,

I ask questions about the battle between the number 1 and 2 in the world.

And at least I have none but nice words about them :shrug:

Anyway, the reason why I started this thread is because I don't understand why it isn't the burning topic now when it's so obvious, whereas there are so many threads about the old legend and always the same never-ending polemics :shrug:

Next months will probably be all about Nadal vs Djokovic :shrug: , maybe even next years considering their age and the lack of contenders in younger generations (except of course Murray and Del Potro but it doesn't seem to be for next months for them), and this rivalry has an old and great history :worship:

GSMnadal
03-25-2011, 04:51 PM
He might be able to beat Nadal once in one of the masters, Rome or Madrid most likely. But that's it, Rafa will (at least) win the other 2 + RG and will have more than a safe cushion for the rest of the year, unless Djokovic reaches every clay final. And even if that happens, Rafa is more likely to do well at Wimbledon, and Djokovic isn't going to outscore Nadal by much in the hardcourt season in the summer/fall. Not happening this year, maybe next year. I think some Djokovic fans have forgotten how much of a beast Rafa is on clay, because it's been a while since we've witnessed it, but he shows the doubters every single time, oh and this: 9-0 on clay to Rafa.

jonathancrane
03-25-2011, 05:04 PM
Nole can do it. Nole can and will beat Nadal on clay this year.

Not in RG

CCBH
03-25-2011, 05:07 PM
Then what will happen now between the best two players in the world ?
the "best ever" (dixit Djokovic) and "one of the best players of all times" (dixit Nadal)

Seriously???!!! :haha: :haha:

duong
03-25-2011, 05:23 PM
Seriously???!!! :haha: :haha:

that's what Nadal and Djokovic said, but anyway, and very seriously from myself, I guess they will be two huge players in history.

People forget that they are both young, well Nadal a little bit less than Djokovic, and the generations after them are quite empty.

I've often thought of Nadal as McEnroe who broke Borg (aka Federer)'s domination, but then came Lendl (aka Djokovic maybe ?) who reigned for long.

That may sound presomptuous for some of you, but well, there's no reason to think that it may not happen :shrug:

Djokovic has Lendl's age in 1984 :shrug: , Nadal also has McEnroe's age in that time, and well, considering his physical problems, he may have problems to last long like McEnroe (even though the reasons were different for McEnroe)

Anyway, the main question is about next months, but this may all last for some time :shrug:

Topspindoctor
03-25-2011, 05:26 PM
Nadal will still take RG+Wim - USO will be between Olderer and Nole - and I am not betting money on the outcome of that match.

ssin
03-25-2011, 05:34 PM
Clay season will give many answers, obviously.

Chartreuse
03-25-2011, 06:18 PM
that's what Nadal and Djokovic said, but anyway, and very seriously from myself, I guess they will be two huge players in history.

People forget that they are both young, well Nadal a little bit less than Djokovic, and the generations after them are quite empty.

I've often thought of Nadal as McEnroe who broke Borg (aka Federer)'s domination, but then came Lendl (aka Djokovic maybe ?) who reigned for long.

That may sound presomptuous for some of you, but well, there's no reason to think that it may not happen :shrug:

Djokovic has Lendl's age in 1984 :shrug: , Nadal also has McEnroe's age in that time, and well, considering his physical problems, he may have problems to last long like McEnroe (even though the reasons were different for McEnroe)

Anyway, the main question is about next months, but this may all last for some time :shrug:

Federer is still around unlike Borg in 1984. Borg retired in 1981. Lendl won more majors than Mcenroe but I doubt that Nole will win more majors than Nadal. So, no. Federer is not Borg. Nadal is not Mcenroe and Nole is not Lendl. They are writing their own stories which are different from the ones written by the players you mentioned.

duong
03-25-2011, 06:28 PM
Federer is still around unlike Borg in 1984. Borg retired in 1981. Lendl won more majors than Mcenroe but I doubt that Nole will win more majors than Nadal. So, no. Federer is not Borg. Nadal is not Mcenroe and Nole is not Lendl. They are writing their own stories which are different from the ones written by the players you mentioned.

there are more similarities than differences.

Anyway, they are the best 2 players in the world now and we are preparing for a new battle between them.

I just want people to get excited about that and just leave Fed alone rather than spend all of their time harrassing and bashing him to retirement. McEnroe had a nice and quiet final period, I hope it can be the same for Fed :shrug:

Whether one likes it or not, the future is Nadal's, Djokovic's and maybe Murray's and Del Potro's, and the immediate future is about the first 2.

Let the rivalry go on !

abraxas21
03-25-2011, 07:02 PM
Dkokovic has no chance against nadal on clay.

maybe in madrid he has a half chance is he plays out of his mind... maybe.

Time Violation
03-25-2011, 07:29 PM
Well, Nadal can't dominate on clay for the next 20 years, so sooner or later it will change. Even it doesn't have to be Novak at all, there are many good clay courters out there, Fed for one could do great during clay season, why not. :)

GlennMirnyi
03-25-2011, 07:31 PM
Nadull is past his "peak".

finishingmove
03-25-2011, 07:42 PM
nadal will most definitely still be #1 after wimbledon.

if djokovic wins the USO, and depending on nadal's post wimbledon results, he might end the year as #1

it's unlikely though

Blackbriar
03-25-2011, 08:06 PM
They met in last tournament's final in Indian Wells, where Nadal dominated the beginning but Djokovic managed to get ahead.

They also met in the final of the last slam where Nadal was not injured : that time Nadal reigned.



Ah? And he was injured at IW? He didn't show it, nor speak about it. Uninjured Nadal can lose, otherwise he would have been injured 10 times last year, and even more the previous years. He would be made of glass.

duong
03-25-2011, 08:13 PM
Ah? And he was injured at IW? He didn't show it, nor speak about it. Uninjured Nadal can lose, otherwise he would have been injured 10 times last year, and even more the previous years. He would be made of glass.

I mean if he had not been injured in Australia, maybe the final would have been Nadal-Djokovic :shrug:

AncicCilic
03-25-2011, 11:23 PM
I think it won't be a problem for Nadal to win 725+ more points then Djokovic up to (and including) Wimbledon because his main part of season comes and i'd be suprised if the difference won't be atleast 1000, if not even 2000 points in that period.

But of course, even with that kind of difference overall battle might get more tight how the season progresses. Mind you, this is IF Djokovic keeps playing this way. I personally don't believe it since it's impossible to hold perfect form so long.

duong
03-26-2011, 10:59 AM
bump : rather talk about the future than about Olderer ;)

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
03-26-2011, 11:12 AM
nadal will destroy all on clay

like he always does

just accept that no one for 5 years will touch him and move on

nadal is going to end up being the GOAT on clay

i would be suprised if djokovic beats nadal even ONCE on clay

Speed of Light
03-26-2011, 12:42 PM
No question, Nadal will dominate the proceedings from here on in.
Djokovic's result this year have merely been a flash in the pan like the one at the start of 2008.
There is no way Djoke is going to have a good finish or even a good middle season, cause it will be all Nadal from here on in.
The fact that this point is even up for debate in threads like this proves how short the memory of people in these parts is as they seem to have forgotten how easily Nadal crushed Djoke in the USO final last year, in what might be considered one of the quickest surfaces on tours. And yet here we have infront of us some pessimists and clowns (well , they are all alike to me , anyways) who seem to think that the Joker has an chance against Nadal even on clay. If Nadal had not injured himself in the match against Ferrer in the Australian open Joker would never have got to even kiss his second grandslam title, thus remaining for ever and ever the one-slam wonder that he truly is. But fate was on his side, and now it will soon be all over for him, as defeat after defeat in grand slam finals (assuming Olderer ain't gonna make it to these stages anymore) will force him into a slump or even better to retire under humiliation.
And to all the naysayers, if your boy is so good then where was he all this time, when Rafa was locked in a tussle for the best player with (then) almighty Roger Federer. Haha, thought so.
But don't let my little rant here discourage you, keep on dreaming, delusionists, keep on dreaming.

paseo
03-26-2011, 12:54 PM
Nadal will still take RG+Wim - USO will be between Olderer and Nole - and I am not betting money on the outcome of that match.

Olderer will win Wimbledon.

Time Violation
03-26-2011, 12:58 PM
If Nadal had not injured himself in the match against Ferrer in the Australian open Joker would never have got to even kiss his second grandslam title, thus remaining for ever and ever the one-slam wonder that he truly is.

So again, only injured Nadal can lose... isn't that getting old a bit? :)

Nole_1990
03-26-2011, 01:36 PM
roobie Kooyong said that nole will beat rafa atclay this year

duong
03-26-2011, 02:10 PM
Everyone is concentrated on clay : if I understand you assume that this will be the same scenario, Djokovic trying to beat Nadal on clay and failing then losing his confidence,

or do you think he can pass over that this time and start great again after clay season ?

Chartreuse
03-26-2011, 04:31 PM
Everyone is concentrated on clay : if I understand you assume that this will be the same scenario, Djokovic trying to beat Nadal on clay and failing then losing his confidence,

or do you think he can pass over that this time and start great again after clay season ?

Nole's gonna lose to Federer in the SF of Wimbledon this year.:awww:

duong
03-26-2011, 04:39 PM
Nole's gonna lose to Federer in the SF of Wimbledon this year.:awww:

the aim of that thread was not jinxing :p

I really thought it was appropriate :shrug:

Adri89
03-26-2011, 04:43 PM
Nadull is past his "peak".

I agree with that.

Nadal came at his top much sooner as Djokovic. Djokovic was very young at the top and for those guys it's normal that their peak is around 23-24. The peak come 5 years after you arrive at a top player in average. So, for Naddal, the peark was when he was 22.

I think his peak will stay his 2008's year. Well, 2010 is in results a better season for Nadal but I think his game was better in 2008 (until RG 2009 and the loss against Soderling). In fact, in 2008-2009, the level was just crazy : Djokovic on fire during the six first months of 2008 then very good on clay in 2009, Federer after a slow start of 2008 was still strong (better than in 2010 if you ask me), and Murray finished the year so strong. But despite those guys who were all near their top, Nadal managed to get 3 GS during this period, to be the number one and to win the Olympics games. I think it was his peak.
In 2010, he had a better year with 3 GS but I think the level was poor compared to 2008 and the beginning of 2009.

All that to say : I don't think that, except on clay, we're going to see a Nadal-Djokovic rilvary in the futures years. Federer isn't anymore at his top but remember there are only few months he destroyed Djokovic and Nadal at the WTF. I don't think he is done for those guys, especially on grass. And Del Potro should be a serious contender on hard court. Nadal and Djokovic are going to be 2 top players for the next years, maybe even the number one and number two during a while but I don't think their rivalry is going to be what the Fedal rivalry was : they're not going to surpass the others players during several years like did Federer and Nadal I think.

henke007
03-26-2011, 04:46 PM
Funny thread title ;)

duong
03-26-2011, 04:50 PM
Funny thread title ;)

sorry my English is not very good but what is funny ?

I saw the word "overtake" : is it more correct ?

Chartreuse
03-26-2011, 04:51 PM
the aim of that thread was not jinxing :p

I really thought it was appropriate :shrug:

Actually, I believe Fed can still beat Nole on grass and on indoors HC. On clay and outdoors HC, Fed can't anymore.:wavey:

duong
03-26-2011, 04:53 PM
I agree with that.

Nadal came at his top much sooner as Djokovic. Djokovic was very young at the top and for those guys it's normal that their peak is around 23-24.

it's a little bit like Lendl and McEnroe ;) (one year difference between them like Nadal and Djokovic) : both were still precocious, but for the older of them this precocity was really exceptional and the other one quite had to wait.

Sillyrabbit
03-26-2011, 04:53 PM
Anyone know how Djokovic plans to handle those alleged summer season pollen allergies he reportedly suffers every year?

duong
03-26-2011, 04:55 PM
Anyone know how Djokovic plans to handle those alleged summer season pollen allergies he reportedly suffers every year?

I know he has a new doctor who especially should take care of that (and heat/breathing problems), but I think not much was said about how they will do.

Sillyrabbit
03-26-2011, 05:00 PM
I know he has a new doctor who especially should take care of that (and heat/breathing problems), but I think not much was said about how they will do.

Thanks, it might be an important factor at Wimbledon.

DrJules
03-26-2011, 05:36 PM
The good news is that Djokovic does not move as well on hard courts and grass. Additionally he is emotionally less calm than either Nadal and Federer which in the long run could be more physically exhausting.

Predicting Nadal to save tennis from Djokovic.

duong
03-26-2011, 05:58 PM
The good news is that Djokovic does not move as well on hard courts and grass. Additionally he is emotionally less calm than either Nadal and Federer which in the long run could be more physically exhausting.

Predicting Nadal to save tennis from Djokovic.

that's bad news for me, and awful news for tennis imo :shrug:

Seeing all these kids dressing like Nadal and shouting "vamos" is disgusting for me :p

DrJules
03-26-2011, 06:10 PM
that's bad news for me, and awful news for tennis imo :shrug:

Seeing all these kids dressing like Nadal and shouting "vamos" is disgusting for me :p

Much is personal preference.

I many ways I find Nadal a very engaging personality and symbolic of a country that I have visited many times to many different places. Not a big fan of his game, but his personality has always appealed.

duong
03-26-2011, 06:12 PM
Much is personal preference.

yes but then don't say "to save tennis" : we have a different opinion about what tennis has to be saved from ;)

rocketassist
03-26-2011, 06:12 PM
The good news is that Djokovic does not move as well on hard courts and grass. Additionally he is emotionally less calm than either Nadal and Federer which in the long run could be more physically exhausting.

Predicting Nadal to save tennis from Djokovic.

Tennis can't be saved either way there, especially if Del Potro is the third man in the mix.

Time Violation
03-26-2011, 06:14 PM
On MTF, tennis lives, dies and gets saved almost every day :p