Is Today's Djokovic better than Prime Fed, Prime Nadal, Prime Sampras & Prime Agassi? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Is Today's Djokovic better than Prime Fed, Prime Nadal, Prime Sampras & Prime Agassi?

paseo
03-24-2011, 04:11 AM
I'm not talking about achievements here. Obviously, he's a baby compared to these guys in that department.

I'm talking about his game. Many posters here say that he's playing unbeatable tennis at the moment. But, so did prime Fed, prime Nadal, prime Sampras and prime Agassi. So, let's settle this right now. Do you think Djokovic is playing better, tennis than these legends ever did?

Dejan16
03-24-2011, 04:13 AM
No? But he is playing well enough to win, he's def not unbeatable rafa could of won that final against him in IW, if he was to serve a little better..

stewietennis
03-24-2011, 04:26 AM
Prime Sampras would have served through Current Djokovic. As good a returner as Novak is, I don't think he would have been able to return much of Pete's serve.
Prime Federer IMHO would outplay Current Djokovic. Back then, Fed didn't make as many unforced errors and he was bale to execute his game much better than now. Novak might take a set off him on hardcourts.
Prime Nadal would probably have a 65% chance of beating Current Novak.
I give Current Novak 60% chance against Prime Agassi due to being more well rounded.

Sri
03-24-2011, 04:34 AM
vs. prime Fed, he loses in straights
vs. prime Rafa, he loses but may take a set or two (on clay, straights)
vs. prime Pete, he loses in 4
vs. prime Andre, he may win in 5

helvet empire
03-24-2011, 04:36 AM
beating shanky fed and 25% nadal in 3 sets is hardly playing unbeatable tennis.
most ridiculous hype ever this djokovic

Johnny Groove
03-24-2011, 04:46 AM
Going a bit too far, are we?

nsidhan
03-24-2011, 04:55 AM
Impossible to tell. Such things cannot be decided on paper. :D

Xristos
03-24-2011, 05:06 AM
No.

Macbrother
03-24-2011, 05:09 AM
Best of five between him and Rafa, with both at peak, boils down to who's the tougher player, physically and mentally, of the day. Generally that's Rafa, but Novak certainly has his chances.

Ditto with Agassi, Djokovic handles that type of pace pretty well, has great movement, great defense, again, probably a toss up, or maye 60/40 Agassi.

Peak Federer and Sampras are another matter, however, with their all-court skills, variety, much bigger serves and forehands, much more able to control the rallies, push Djokovic off the court and be opportunistic at net.

NadalYoung
03-24-2011, 05:18 AM
:haha::haha::haha::haha::haha:

NO JUST NO

:haha::haha::haha::haha::haha:

/thread

Prime Fed vs= Roast

Prime Sampras=Roast

Prime Agassi= Easy

Prime Nadal=Kill

Roast>Kill>Easy

BigJohn
03-24-2011, 05:18 AM
Fadaises.

viruzzz
03-24-2011, 05:24 AM
No... But I think we didn't see PRIME NOLE.
And I hope we'll never see it.

YouCantBeSerious
03-24-2011, 05:24 AM
Depends on the surface too, prime Pistol Pete on grass? I don't think so.

shuhrat
03-24-2011, 05:33 AM
I'm not talking about achievements here. Obviously, he's a baby compared to these guys in that department.

I'm talking about his game. Many posters here say that he's playing unbeatable tennis at the moment. But, so did prime Fed, prime Nadal, prime Sampras and prime Agassi. So, let's settle this right now. Do you think Djokovic is playing better, tennis than these legends ever did?
You already knew they are downright silly comments and people are just overreacting. :shrug: The player himself doesn't agree about it at all.
Q. Do you feel unbeatable at the moment?
NOVAK DJOKOVIC: No. We have been talking about this. I don't think anybody is unbeatable. I do have the best period of my life on the tennis court, but nobody is invincible. Still you are just trying to play your best in each match you're playing.

Pirata.
03-24-2011, 05:57 AM
:spit:

Stop trolling.

coonster14
03-24-2011, 06:18 AM
No I don't think so. He is on a great run right now though, will be very interested to see how much longer it goes on for.

BIGMARAT
03-24-2011, 07:46 AM
who would know?
nobody can quantitate such things like this which never happened.
maybe rafa and nole peak vs peak could happen, but who knows?

finishingmove
03-24-2011, 08:32 AM
better than all of those combined

Orka_n
03-24-2011, 08:43 AM
A movie has been made recently about the Nole bandwagon:

JM-0Ywc7wNY

Blackbriar
03-24-2011, 09:12 AM
JesusFed and TermiNadal are too good for him.

duong
03-24-2011, 09:45 AM
for sure :yeah:

it's obvious :shrug:

he's much better than all of them ;)

he would have difficulties against prime Mathieu though ;)

Jaz
03-24-2011, 10:13 AM
Fail.

oranges
03-24-2011, 10:56 AM
MTF bandwagonning will become one of the extreme sports I've heard. New GOAT ever few months, bamos

Nadull_tard
03-24-2011, 11:11 AM
v. Sampras on classic grass- 2-6 3-6 1-6 without facing a BP
v. Nadal on clay- 3-6 2-6 4-6 within 2 hr
v. Federer on fast HC- 3-6 4-6 4-6
v. Agassi on HC- 6-7 6-4 3-6 4-6

Commander Data
03-24-2011, 11:15 AM
WTF is wrong with you?

ExcaliburII
03-24-2011, 11:16 AM
better than prime Federer, yes.
Better than prime Nadal, prime Agassi or prime Sampras? Hell no.

BigJohn
03-24-2011, 11:38 AM
MTF bandwagonning will become one of the extreme sports I've heard. New GOAT ever few months, bamos

Isn't it adje now?

Jaz
03-24-2011, 12:52 PM
better than prime Federer, yes.
Better than prime Nadal, prime Agassi or prime Sampras? Hell no.

Definitely don't follow your logic, especially given that Federer is a better hardcourt player than Agassi and Nadal.

The last few months on MTF is like a clown season, it's just ridiculously stupid.

Clay Death
03-24-2011, 01:01 PM
the great serbian slayer would run circles around prime agassi and prime sampras today.

it would not even be contest. it would be like snatching candy from children.

rocketassist
03-24-2011, 01:18 PM
the great serbian slayer would run circles around prime agassi and prime sampras today.

it would not even be contest. it would be like snatching candy from children.

:bs:

Sampras on clay he'd probably beat, but everywhere else they'd trash him.

tnosugar
03-24-2011, 01:29 PM
We'll have an answer for Prime Nadal soon enough. Unless every time Nadal loses to Djokovic you claim he was not prime Nadal. The rest makes no sense to compare. Statistics or some abstract 'what if' comparisons just won't cut it.

Pirata.
03-24-2011, 01:36 PM
the great serbian slayer would run circles around prime agassi and prime sampras today.

it would not even be contest. it would be like snatching candy from children.

Now that's just going too far, CD. Prime Sampras would trash this Novak everywhere except maybe clay, and Prime Agassi would only lose a set.

Guga_fan
03-24-2011, 01:36 PM
Definitely not better than any of them, but due to matchup I think he would have a good chance agaisnt prime Federer and Nadal on the right surfaces. Against Agassi it's kinda hard to judge, but I guess Djokovic would lose 8 out of 10 matches, and against Sampras he would only win on clay.

Clay Death
03-24-2011, 01:40 PM
Now that's just going too far, CD. Prime Sampras would trash this Novak everywhere except maybe clay, and Prime Agassi would only lose a set.

how do we really know princess luisella?


i think the game has moved on. nole is just a significantly better athlete than both agassi and sampras.

and he has deadly finishing power off both wings.

his movement is the best i have ever seen after fed and nadal when they were at the very height of their youth.

nole also has the best return game on the planet. that would a lot of pressure on sampras.

rocketassist
03-24-2011, 01:46 PM
how do we really know princess luisella?


i think the game has moved on. nole is just a significantly better athlete than both agassi and sampras.

and he has deadly finishing power off both wings.

his movement is the best i have ever seen after fed and nadal when they were at the very height of their youth.

nole also has the best return game on the planet. that would a lot of pressure on sampras.

Agassi does everything Nole does better. Better serve, ROS, forehand, backhand, net game.

And no the game hasn't moved on. Otherwise Simon wouldn't have made 5 in the world and a one-dimensional bashbot like Del Potro wouldn't have won a slam.

.-Federers_Mate-.
03-24-2011, 01:47 PM
Prime Fed? no, thats out of the question. It can be argued in the case of the others however. Novak's return is more than a match for Pete's serves and he is just too quick.

I have never seen Pete play at the level Novak is on right now. Out of this world.

.-Federers_Mate-.
03-24-2011, 01:49 PM
Agassi does everything Nole does better. Better serve, ROS, forehand, backhand, net game.




Stop talking out of your ass and stop resiting the facts. I know its hard to give in, but you look silly otherwise. Agassi's return and ground game doesn't hold a candle to Novak right now. It's like comparing a paper cup and a wine glass.

dodo
03-24-2011, 01:52 PM
vs. prime Fed, he loses in straights
vs. prime Rafa, he loses but may take a set or two (on clay, straights)
vs. prime Pete, he loses in 4
vs. prime Andre, he may win in 5

pretty much this. he is in the form of his life and currently the hottest player on tour, i'll give him that, but even so, Olderer and Slumpdal still managed to take a set and ran him close before folding in the end.

Clay Death
03-24-2011, 01:52 PM
Agassi does everything Nole does better. Better serve, ROS, forehand, backhand, net game.

And no the game hasn't moved on. Otherwise Simon wouldn't have made 5 in the world and a one-dimensional bashbot like Del Potro wouldn't have won a slam.

i hear ya old friend.

we just have to differ on this.

your opinion has to be respected as well. you have your reasons for what you state here.

LawrenceOfTennis
03-24-2011, 02:04 PM
I can't believe it that this thread is not a joke. Any body here can take it serious? Better than Fed or Sampras in their primes? WTF??? are you serious? No way. He's very good right now, maybe the best in the world but thats just impossible.

LawrenceOfTennis
03-24-2011, 02:06 PM
Stop talking out of your ass and stop resiting the facts. I know its hard to give in, but you look silly otherwise. Agassi's return and ground game doesn't hold a candle to Novak right now. It's like comparing a paper cup and a wine glass.

this guy is a JOKE. How can anybody state that Djokovic's return is better than Andre's? WTF....OMG

laurie-1
03-24-2011, 02:28 PM
for sure :yeah:

it's obvious :shrug:

he's much better than all of them ;)

he would have difficulties against prime Mathieu though ;)

:lol:

Sonja1989
03-24-2011, 02:37 PM
I wonder what does Djokovic do against the best Nadal or Federer...

laurie-1
03-24-2011, 02:40 PM
Well its an interesting question considering his 18 match win streak is the best since 1997.

Well my feeling is that Djokovic can't keep this up with the style of play he currently has. For instance, I don't remember in the Indian wells semifinal Djokovic going to net at all throughout the match. Almost every point is a grind and his body will not hold up with that sort of game style.

So if I think of prime examples of guys being hot over a sustained period:

Agassi - 1995 hardcourt season - Agassi won 4 or 5 tournaments in a row and got to the US Open final. Sure Agassi isn't an all court player but unlike Djokovic, Agassi likes to end points quickly and pile on the pressure, he overwhelmed opponents often especially attacking players

Sampras 1994 and 1997. At the beginning of each season Sampras was red hot and had a combination of long tough matches, and completely outplaying opponents with an all court game and comprehensive scoreline

Federer 2004 - 2006. Again like Sampras, Federer would just outplay opponents when in good form and would win the tight encounters as well so a great combination

Nadal summer 2010 - Nadal is closer to Djokovic. He would grind his opponents to the ground as opposed to completely outplaying them. But the question like in Australia is, when will he break down?

I would like Djokovic to improve his game by adding more net play and shortening the points more often. If he can do that then he might become a more dominant player over a sustained period of time.

rocketassist
03-24-2011, 03:28 PM
Stop talking out of your ass and stop resiting the facts. I know its hard to give in, but you look silly otherwise. Agassi's return and ground game doesn't hold a candle to Novak right now. It's like comparing a paper cup and a wine glass.

Agassi's two hander is one of the best ever, whereas his ROS on fast grass won him a Wimbledon in the era of the aceathons.

Chartreuse
03-24-2011, 03:34 PM
:lol:

No.

The closest he might get would be to Agassi level on slow HC, that is at the AO... Nole's best surface are the slow HC. But on clay, grass and fast HC it will be harder to reach the levels of Sampras on grass, Nadal on clay or Federer on the fast HC.

barbadosan
03-24-2011, 03:36 PM
Darn it - I missed my cue. Should've voted for ALL FIVE options - would have been the perfect response to this thread

dodo
03-24-2011, 03:37 PM
Well its an interesting question considering his 18 match win streak is the best since 1997.

??

Winning streaks
Open Era
Player Wins
1. Guillermo Vilas 46 (1977)
2. Ivan Lendl 44 (1981–82)
3. Björn Borg 43 (1978)
4. John McEnroe 42 (1983–84)
5. Roger Federer 41 (2006–07)
6. Björn Borg 35 (1979–80)
= Thomas Muster 35 (1995)
= Roger Federer 35 (2005)
9. Jimmy Connors 33 (1974)
10. Rafael Nadal 32 (2008)
11. Ivan Lendl 31 (1985)
12. Ilie Năstase 29 (1973)
13. Pete Sampras 29 (1994)

Yukimura
03-24-2011, 03:50 PM
Is that serious? It's not like he killed Fed and Rafa, and they didn't played well. In fact, if rafa didn't choke, he wouldn't lose the match at all.
In a M1000, I think that even regular Mugray would've won the match.
About Prime Sampras, from what I've heard, would even outplay prime Fed.
Thing is, Nole is playing great, but he's winning it all cause the guys are not stepping up to challenge. Or do you really think Fedal pull a Gasguet all the time?

samanosuke
03-24-2011, 03:54 PM
and this thread still going

Lestat
03-24-2011, 03:59 PM
No, Definitely No.

laurie-1
03-24-2011, 04:40 PM
??

Winning streaks
Open Era
Player Wins
1. Guillermo Vilas 46 (1977)
2. Ivan Lendl 44 (1981–82)
3. Björn Borg 43 (1978)
4. John McEnroe 42 (1983–84)
5. Roger Federer 41 (2006–07)
6. Björn Borg 35 (1979–80)
= Thomas Muster 35 (1995)
= Roger Federer 35 (2005)
9. Jimmy Connors 33 (1974)
10. Rafael Nadal 32 (2008)
11. Ivan Lendl 31 (1985)
12. Ilie Năstase 29 (1973)
13. Pete Sampras 29 (1994)


That particular thread I was referring to was about the best start to a year since 1990 which Djokovic now holds.

vn01
03-24-2011, 04:45 PM
Close to Agassi, but rather the answer is NO!

philosophicalarf
03-24-2011, 04:47 PM
He's hellish hard to put away.

But is he playing great tennis? Not convinced. Nadal should have had him in the IW final, was pretty comfortable despite being not at his best, then fell apart. Federer had matchpoints in the US Open semis, beat him on a lowish bounce court in London, but at Australia/IW is probably not going to beat Nadal/Murray/Djoko much anymore (slow court + opponent strong defence = Federror).

Silvester
03-24-2011, 05:16 PM
first of all to answer the question NO.

Second - Nadal IS in his PRIME right now and I believe he is at #1.

oranges
03-24-2011, 05:23 PM
Isn't it adje now?

True, both vamos and bamos is outdated. Just a small correction, it's ajde

Ichiban1920
03-24-2011, 05:27 PM
Djokovic is playing in a mug era. Completely overrated.

luie
03-24-2011, 06:09 PM
On a slow HC like AO @ night,,I believe Novak can challenge these players in their primes,also Sampras on clay.
However any other surface or senario I'll give fed/agassi/Sampras the edge.
I'am not impressed with novak stamina/clay game as yet.

Roddickominator
03-24-2011, 06:25 PM
This Djokovic would smoke Sampras and Agassi with current racquest/string technology and surface conditions. I suspect the opposite would be true if we threw current Djokovic back into 1995 on faster, lower bouncing courts and without the topspin steroid strings of today. Then also take into account that each player's game is built around the technology and surface conditions of their day, therefore different aspects of their games are practiced and perfected. It makes things very difficult to figure. You cannot truly compare them due to this, so it is really pointless.

You can certainly make a closer guess with prime Nadal and prime Federer. I think prime Federer would always have had trouble with a guy like this Djokovic. A guy that can consistently return very well is going to have a mental effect on his opponent. Maybe it gets to you and you start trying to overhit your serves or groundies, which causes you to start shanking shots and just look terrible and out of sorts in general. Young Federer had plenty of trouble with guys like Hewitt and Nalbandian, guys with great return games. I don't think prime Federer ever had to deal with a returner on the level of current Djokovic. He's really returning that well.

As for prime Nadal, it is completely dependent on the surface. Any hardcourt, Djokovic has a marked advantage. On clay and grass, Nadal has the advantage. I have a feeling that we're gonna get see some close-to-prime Nadal vs. prime Djokovic this clay season, so it could be exciting stuff.

Sillyrabbit
03-24-2011, 06:40 PM
My bandwagon boarding pass was turned down, as there aren't any empty seats left :sad:

dombrfc
03-24-2011, 07:43 PM
Just a touch over the top. Surely takes this seriously. Of all 5 players in their prime, I place him last.

Hazezon
03-24-2011, 07:52 PM
Better than Prime Nadal, Prime Sampras, Prime Agassi, and Prime Rib.

TeamID
03-24-2011, 08:52 PM
This Djokovic would smoke Sampras and Agassi with current racquest/string technology and surface conditions. I suspect the opposite would be true if we threw current Djokovic back into 1995 on faster, lower bouncing courts and without the topspin steroid strings of today. Then also take into account that each player's game is built around the technology and surface conditions of their day, therefore different aspects of their games are practiced and perfected. It makes things very difficult to figure. You cannot truly compare them due to this, so it is really pointless.

You can certainly make a closer guess with prime Nadal and prime Federer. I think prime Federer would always have had trouble with a guy like this Djokovic. A guy that can consistently return very well is going to have a mental effect on his opponent. Maybe it gets to you and you start trying to overhit your serves or groundies, which causes you to start shanking shots and just look terrible and out of sorts in general. Young Federer had plenty of trouble with guys like Hewitt and Nalbandian, guys with great return games.I don't think prime Federer ever had to deal with a returner on the level of current Djokovic. He's really returning that well.

As for prime Nadal, it is completely dependent on the surface. Any hardcourt, Djokovic has a marked advantage. On clay and grass, Nadal has the advantage. I have a feeling that we're gonna get see some close-to-prime Nadal vs. prime Djokovic this clay season, so it could be exciting stuff.

No he's not. Go watch 2005 USO final where Federer played Agassi -- Djokovic's return is nowhere near that level. For that matter, Djokovic's return isn't even as good as Nalbandian's was back when he was giving Federer nightmares.

The only things Nole does better than those two is serve and cover the court. His groundstrokes aren't really in the same category when it comes to controlling the court and pushing opponents around. Seriously, Agassi would've run Djokovic into the ground over the course of a five setter.

If we're truly talking about these players playing their best over the course of a match, I think Djokovic's best chance is against Sampras actually. Djokovic's return is more suited for getting the ball back somewhere uncomfortable for the other player than it is for hitting winners off the serve, and that's the style of return that gave Sampras the most trouble (e.g. Hewitt).

Federer at his best would've blown him off the court in three sets. See the USO final where he wrung Hewitt's neck and add a few games to Hewitt's score. I don't think Djokovic is playing much better now than he was in 2007, and Monofed still took him out in three sets at that USO final (although they were tough).

Nadal's constant pressure would just be too much for Djokovic over the course of a match. I don't see him breaking through Nadal unless it's a really fast court like Cincinnati.

Djokovic would get Agassi on clay -- no doubt -- but I think Agassi would have his number on every other surface. I hate Agassi, but I think he took the ball too early and hit it too hard for Nole to keep up. Djokovic needs time on his strokes -- especially his forehand -- to really whack the ball and Agassi wouldn't give him that time. Nole's forehand already breaks down sometimes, it wouldn't hold up against Agassi. Factor in how much running Agassi would make Djokovic do and I think it's a pretty bad matchup for him. See his record against Safin.

paseo
03-26-2011, 07:14 AM
Djokovic once again dishing out breadsticks and bagels. Is there still any doubt?

Roddickominator
03-26-2011, 07:34 AM
No he's not. Go watch 2005 USO final where Federer played Agassi -- Djokovic's return is nowhere near that level. For that matter, Djokovic's return isn't even as good as Nalbandian's was back when he was giving Federer nightmares.

The only things Nole does better than those two is serve and cover the court. His groundstrokes aren't really in the same category when it comes to controlling the court and pushing opponents around. Seriously, Agassi would've run Djokovic into the ground over the course of a five setter.

If we're truly talking about these players playing their best over the course of a match, I think Djokovic's best chance is against Sampras actually. Djokovic's return is more suited for getting the ball back somewhere uncomfortable for the other player than it is for hitting winners off the serve, and that's the style of return that gave Sampras the most trouble (e.g. Hewitt).

Federer at his best would've blown him off the court in three sets. See the USO final where he wrung Hewitt's neck and add a few games to Hewitt's score. I don't think Djokovic is playing much better now than he was in 2007, and Monofed still took him out in three sets at that USO final (although they were tough).

Nadal's constant pressure would just be too much for Djokovic over the course of a match. I don't see him breaking through Nadal unless it's a really fast court like Cincinnati.

Djokovic would get Agassi on clay -- no doubt -- but I think Agassi would have his number on every other surface. I hate Agassi, but I think he took the ball too early and hit it too hard for Nole to keep up. Djokovic needs time on his strokes -- especially his forehand -- to really whack the ball and Agassi wouldn't give him that time. Nole's forehand already breaks down sometimes, it wouldn't hold up against Agassi. Factor in how much running Agassi would make Djokovic do and I think it's a pretty bad matchup for him. See his record against Safin.

I respect your post because at least you put some thought and reason behind it, even if I don't agree completely. That is more than 95% of MTF can say for their posts. But at least acknowledge that my post had some merit with the technology and surface stuff! Come on man!

I continue to be very impressed with the Djoker.

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
03-26-2011, 10:25 AM
agassi best returner of all time (second is connors)

djokovic is top 10

agassi won wimbledon in the FABLED 90s of grass court legends

thats a bigger achievement than anything nadal or djokovic have done

federer would bagle djok at his peak

heya
03-26-2011, 03:27 PM
Federer responds to Navratilova No. 1 comments March 24, 2011
Roger Federer responds to Martina Navratilova’s contention he’ll never regain the No. 1 ranking. "Maybe she missed the London World Tour Finals," said No. 3 Federer, who won that tournament but has lost to No. 2 Novak Djokovic three times this year. "Maybe she was somewhere else climbing Kilimanjaro. I love her. Look, I think she's been an inspiration to my wife [mirka] and I always love seeing her, but if you had the microphone in front of you and you get a negative question, you get dragged into it. And she's in front of the microphone a lot of times like other experts and eventually you can't just say only good things. You have to also say more negative things."

Federer also said that he feels better physically today than he did at 22 and is more aware of how far he can push his body. Andy Roddick defended the 16-time Grand Slam champion’s recent play. "It's ridiculous," Roddick said. "Whoever wants to criticize Roger for the way he’s playing tennis right now better be very, very good at their job."—Matthew Cronin http://www.tennis.com/articles/templates/ticker.aspx?articleid=11180&zoneid=6
Rodduck's a sycophantic type of stupid petulant little boy. Obviously, he can't do much more than leech money and praise Federer. Nothing new.
dickk has fight in him; too bad it's not on the tennis battlefield with little girls.

Allez
03-26-2011, 06:15 PM
Probably better than everyone except the following in their prime

Federer
Nadal
Agassi
Sampras
McEnroe
Borg
Laver
Lendl
Becker
Safin
Connors
Edberg
Rosewall
Newcombe
Emerson
Budge
Tilden
Sears
Renshaw
Wilander

Vida
03-26-2011, 06:18 PM
underestimate djoker at your own peril, folks.

rocketassist
03-26-2011, 06:25 PM
underestimate djoker at your own peril, folks.

Innit, you think he's the GOAT and the most talented of all time.

Vida
03-26-2011, 06:38 PM
Innit, you think he's the GOAT and the most talented of all time.

mouth is for talking and ass is for farting.

not the other way around.

Blackbriar
03-26-2011, 06:41 PM
Djokovic is completely invincible until he loses a match. Then he will be a mug.

batavlada
03-26-2011, 06:42 PM
What a thread...

Lets see Djokovic wining Wimbledon two times. Then we can discuss.

Matt01
03-26-2011, 07:11 PM
Djokovic is completely invincible until he loses a match. Then he will be a mug.


That's how it works here, yeah :shrug:

Start da Game
03-26-2011, 07:22 PM
good thread, paseo......keep it up.......what the heck is wrong when he makes a thread like this?

so far this year he has owned the best players on the tour and sparked one of the greatest beginnings to the season by a tennis player in the history of the sport.......we are almost into april and he hasn't lost a match this year.......when was the last time that happened?

federina got smoked in australia, dubai, failed to win a set, lost to him yet again last week.......nadal too despite being in the best of his physical condition had to bow down to this serbian legend in a 1000 final......

murray got manhandled and wiped off the charts, he is no where to be seen now.......no one even knows about his whereabouts.......

all this stuff when playing at 70% of his peak(2008) level.......i am actually still not convinced with djokovic's level of play.......his forehand is getting better but is still not at 2008 level......

DrJules
03-26-2011, 07:29 PM
Rather unfair on Djokovic.

Comparing him to 4 all time greats, who he will almost certainly never match in their achievements, has only one answer which is no.

dombrfc
03-26-2011, 07:33 PM
better than prime Federer, yes.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

DrJules
03-26-2011, 07:34 PM
Going a bit too far, are we?

Most objective posters going for no.

Realistically comparing Djokovic to 4 players who have won 8 or more GS titles and 3 of the 4 who have won a career grand slam is only going to have 1 result.

Start da Game
03-26-2011, 07:43 PM
dr.jules, he is comparing the level of play than their career records and he has mentioned it clearly in the opening post.......i see nothing wrong with the comparison.......

i am certain of one thing.......his level is clearly better than prime fed's and prime agassi on clay and fast hardcourts, the only surface where i can imagine fed playing better than him is grass.......agassi on grass and slow hardcourts.......

sampras and nadal are fighters first and then tennis players.......hence i wouldn't want to make calls with those players.......i will just say that he has the edge over sampras on clay and nadal on hardcourts, that's for sure.......

rocketassist
03-26-2011, 09:16 PM
dr.jules, he is comparing the level of play than their career records and he has mentioned it clearly in the opening post.......i see nothing wrong with the comparison.......

i am certain of one thing.......his level is clearly better than prime fed's and prime agassi on clay and fast hardcourts, the only surface where i can imagine fed playing better than him is grass.......agassi on grass and slow hardcourts.......

sampras and nadal are fighters first and then tennis players.......hence i wouldn't want to make calls with those players.......i will just say that he has the edge over sampras on clay and nadal on hardcourts, that's for sure.......

Djokovic has never won Cincinnati or a US Open and they're the fastest hard courts. He's better suited to slow ones, but Agassi's won on both types and does everything Novak does a lot better.

Johnny Groove
03-26-2011, 09:20 PM
Djokovic, Hewitt, Safin, Rafter, Kafelnikov, Bruguera, and Nastase all have 2 slams.

Djokovic belongs somewhere with those guys.

DrJules
03-26-2011, 09:45 PM
Best of five between him and Rafa, with both at peak, boils down to who's the tougher player, physically and mentally, of the day. Generally that's Rafa, but Novak certainly has his chances.

Ditto with Agassi, Djokovic handles that type of pace pretty well, has great movement, great defense, again, probably a toss up, or maye 60/40 Agassi.

Peak Federer and Sampras are another matter, however, with their all-court skills, variety, much bigger serves and forehands, much more able to control the rallies, push Djokovic off the court and be opportunistic at net.

Probably nearest to the truth and realistically explains why the 4 all time greats have won 47 GS between. To win that many they would have had many prime days.

shiaben
03-26-2011, 09:53 PM
Yes and No.

His base game is much more aggressive than Nadal and Federer playing at their best. Djokovic can beat the shit out of that ball really damn hard and accurate for like 20-40 hit rallies even, without over-hitting it or hitting the net.

I think Federer is more likely to play risky high level tennis, than either Nadal or Djokovic, by risking more inside out forehand winners (as well as regular ones) than expect the opponent to make a shitty error on their forehands or backhands. (In recent year's the liquid whip has been going out of bounce, but that's because he's past his prime).

Djokovic's defensive game is just about as solid as Nadal's. In glimpses of the match at the AO, when Murray tried to knock Nole off the court, he came back all the way from the right or left sides (like the corners) and came all the way back to the middle of the court to win a lot of points (Nadalesque like).

The one thing that's a bit weaker than Nadal and Federer is just refining the serve smash and volley finishers.

Djokovic is capable of hitting serve overheads and smashes, as well as volleys and volley finishes, but he has a bad habit of missing a lot of them. I would say he's a 6/10 in these departments. While Nadal and Federer are a solid 8/10.

So yeah, there you have it. His base game is more entertaining than 2006 Goderer (including the solid one handed back hand strokes Federer at early in his career).

But I'm not concerned with Djokovic's game right now. Yes he's playing amazing, I'm more concerned with his consistency.

He can play at a better form and style than Nadal and Federer can, at the moment if he wants. But it's useless if his career were to end with 4-6 slams. He'll need to work on his physical conditioning because he seems shaky. He needs to specifically work on his physical conditioning to avoid getting sick, to raise his endurance and stamina, and to avoid possibly dangerous leg injuries etc.

These next few years will be exciting if Djokovic, Nadal, and Federer, can maintain their high levels, and if several other players, can raise their levels to challenge them and join them. Andy Murray could have been a potential fourth, because of his defense, foot work, return game, and accuracy, but he lacks the domain of power. Had he had power, who knows, we'd probably have 4 players entering the slams, surprising us with the results.

oranges
03-26-2011, 10:05 PM
His base game is much more aggressive than Nadal and Federer playing at their best.
...
Djokovic is capable of hitting serve overheads and smashes, as well as volleys and volley finishes, but he has a bad habit of missing a lot of them.
...
His base game is more entertaining than 2006 Goderer (including the solid one handed back hand strokes Federer at early in his career).




Comedy gold :lol:

paseo
08-16-2011, 03:05 PM
Seems like a lot of people here say he is.

Vida
08-16-2011, 03:07 PM
looking at some of these posts, there is no other solution for a novak fan than to remember what (usually the same people) said about him years ago.

:zzz:

swebright
08-16-2011, 03:09 PM
Only time will tell. If you pick 2011 only, it could be but your greatness will be decided by your entire career. He still has a third of a season to go.

Gagsquet
08-16-2011, 03:12 PM
looking at some of these posts, there is no other solution for a novak fan than to remember what (usually the same people) said about him years ago.

:zzz:


Being a Djokovic fan is a lame choice.

Bragging about it is ridiculous.

Vida
08-16-2011, 03:13 PM
Being a Djokovic fan is a lame choice.

Bragging about it is ridiculous.

some sense in your post would be appreciated.

Egreen
08-16-2011, 03:14 PM
Only time will tell. If you pick 2011 only, it could be but your greatness will be decided by your entire career. He still has a third of a season to go.

Ditto.

Farenhajt
08-16-2011, 03:15 PM
Djokovic, Hewitt, Safin, Rafter, Kafelnikov, Bruguera, and Nastase all have 2 slams.

Djokovic belongs somewhere with those guys.

Mathematicians have a saying: There are three kinds of people in this world - those who can count and those who can't.

Too much Rafatardism and Nole hate is bad for brain.

Asadinator
08-16-2011, 03:22 PM
He's better than prime Rafa and Aggasi, but worse than prime Fed and Sampras.

hiperborejac
08-16-2011, 03:27 PM
Mathematicians have a saying: There are three kinds of people in this world - those who can count and those who can't.

Too much Rafatardism and Nole hate is bad for brain.

Look at the date of his post ;)

yesh222
08-16-2011, 03:37 PM
Agassi for sure, Rafa most likely, Sampras and Fed probably not. But it would be amazing to see a round robin tournament of these 5 at their peaks.

Branimir
08-16-2011, 03:57 PM
I don't think Nole is still at his prime. He has to improve his serve a little bit and needs to handle better short slices.

atennisfan
08-16-2011, 04:04 PM
Mathematicians have a saying: There are three kinds of people in this world - those who can count and those who can't.

Too much Rafatardism and Nole hate is bad for brain.

My mother have a saying: There are two kinds of people in this world - those who can read dates and those who can't.

Too much Nole-ism and Fed-hate is bad for brain.

atennisfan
08-16-2011, 04:07 PM
Mathematicians have a saying: There are three kinds of people in this world - those who can count and those who can't.

Too much Rafatardism and Nole hate is bad for brain.

Are you describing yourself?
because in March this year Nole surely only had 2 slams as suggested by Johnny Groove in his march post.

PWNED!

:haha::banana:

atennisfan
08-16-2011, 04:08 PM
Agassi for sure, Rafa most likely, Sampras and Fed probably not. But it would be amazing to see a round robin tournament of these 5 at their peaks.

I agree with this.

GOAT = Fed
08-16-2011, 04:14 PM
I don't think Nole is still at his prime. He has to improve his serve a little bit and needs to handle better short slices.

Erm prime does not equal a perfect player. All players even in their prime have weaknesses.

xdrewitdajx
08-16-2011, 04:16 PM
My mother have a saying: There are two kinds of people in this world - those who can read dates and those who can't.

Too much Nole-ism and Fed-hate is bad for brain.

Are you describing yourself?
because in March this year Nole surely only had 2 slams as suggested by Johnny Groove in his march post.

PWNED!

:haha::banana:

couldn't decide which hilarious retort to go with, so went with both instead?

TennisViewer531
08-16-2011, 04:20 PM
hate to admit this, but no. not yet.

Branimir
08-16-2011, 04:26 PM
Erm prime does not equal a perfect player. All players even in their prime have weaknesses.

True, but Nole calls himself perfectionist. What if he reaches perfection?

rocketassist
08-16-2011, 05:17 PM
Prime Nadal yes, the others no

Farenhajt
08-16-2011, 05:19 PM
Are you describing yourself?
because in March this year Nole surely only had 2 slams as suggested by Johnny Groove in his march post.

PWNED!

:haha::banana:

couldn't decide which hilarious retort to go with, so went with both instead?

:facepalm: :facepalm: Fedtards on the loose.

Whatever the date, the guy is a troll, and you two will need something much more substantial than a mere technicality such as a date to pwn me.

atennisfan
08-16-2011, 05:45 PM
:facepalm: :facepalm: Fedtards on the loose.

Whatever the date, the guy is a troll, and you two will need something much more substantial than a mere technicality such as a date to pwn me.

why is it hard to admit you were wrong?

You went sarcastic and acidic on johnny groove and when it's pointed out that actually you are the one who's wrong, you can't even take your own sarcastic medicine.

By the way, johnny groove is not a troll. Have you not read his posts?
Also, Im not fedtart by the way. Im neutral.

Mountaindewslave
08-16-2011, 05:47 PM
Love Nadal but Djokovic's prime is probably better than his. Might be better than Agassi's but Agassi was great at moment's, hard to really point out Agassi' prime as his career was great towards both ends....

Unfortunately Djokovic's peak is not anywhere near Federer status but has appeared heightened due to a weak field this year (Soderling, Nadal (at least against Djokovic), Berdych, Murray, hell even Federer have gone MIA). seriously the field this year besides Nadal a little bit is horrible. no players are playing great and the typically consistant ones are much less consistant than before.

Do not even begin to get started on a Sampras peak vs. Djokovic peak. that question is beyond arguing as Sampras can crush Djokovic from the ground anywhere on the baseline, is a much better volleyer, and has possibly the best serve of all time... the only thing Djokovic prime has over Sampras is a better return but that cannot come even close to weighing as much as all the advantages Sampras prime has.

Nadal yes. Agassi maybe? Federer and Pete, NO.

oranges
08-16-2011, 06:19 PM
He's the second coming of Christ and Buddha reincaranted all in one :rocker2:

Mjau!
08-16-2011, 07:04 PM
The answer is clearly yes, yes, yes and yes!

xdrewitdajx
08-16-2011, 08:43 PM
:facepalm: :facepalm: Fedtards on the loose.

Whatever the date, the guy is a troll, and you two will need something much more substantial than a mere technicality such as a date to pwn me.

wait, am I one of the two? since you quoted my post. Just wondering

Logical
08-16-2011, 08:47 PM
El Matador > Djokovic > Samtrash> Fedull> Mugassi