Youngsters with all-court skills [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Youngsters with all-court skills

n8
03-22-2011, 10:27 PM
A few paragraphs from an interesting article by MTF poster Henry Chinaski.
http://thebigtip.com.au/tennis/does-emergence-harrison-and-raonic-signal-return-all-court-tennis

Despite their inexperience on the main tour, both Harrison and Raonic already look more comfortable in the forecourt than most of the top 20 and their willingness to get there hopefully reverses the recent trend that has seen little but one-dimensional baseliners emerge from the juniors.
...
The most promising thing is that they arenít alone. Grigor Dimitrov and Richard Berankis are other young players capable of playing all-court tennis, as is Alexandr Dolgopolov, still a top level rookie despite being 22 years old. Whether this means anything remains to be seen. Itís entirely possible that the aforementioned players will adapt their styles to the prevailing ethos of the tour and gradually ditch the variety from their games.

Weíve seen it happen to the likes of Richard Gasquet, Mario Ancic and Jo-Wilfried Tsonga before them but for the good of tennis letís hope Harrison and co can maintain their all-court styles. Donít get me wrong. There is nothing wrong with Djokovic, Del Potro et al. Their style is no less valid than any other but the beauty of tennis lies in variety, unique match-ups and clashes of style.

What do you think of these young stars' style of play? Do you think they will keep playing all-court tennis as they progress in their careers?

Sapeod
03-22-2011, 10:29 PM
Harrison and Raonic are the best up and comers and their games are very fun to watch. Dimitrov is very talented also, as is Dolgopolov. Both are very fun to watch too.

Hopefully, this is the start of something great for tennis.

Certinfy
03-22-2011, 10:32 PM
Krajinovic last year in Belgrade was stunning, every part of his game was awesome and his BH was simply the best I've seen of any of these youngsters, shame he hasn't really excelled though :(

Gabe32
03-22-2011, 10:47 PM
I've only seen Harrison, Raonic and Dolgopolev. Dolgo, however, I think is too old to be considered with these guys. Harrison has more of an "all court" game compared to Raonic. With a 150+mph serve, it is tough to list a guy as an all courter. His footwork needs some work as well.

Hopefully there will be some good youngsters coming up soon.

scarecrows
03-22-2011, 10:59 PM
Krajinovic last year in Belgrade was stunning, every part of his game was awesome and his BH was simply the best I've seen of any of these youngsters, shame he hasn't really excelled though :(

he's been injured for months

NikolaBGD
03-22-2011, 11:00 PM
Krajinovic last year in Belgrade was stunning, every part of his game was awesome and his BH was simply the best I've seen of any of these youngsters, shame he hasn't really excelled though :(

After that he was injured for most part of the season...pitty:(

Lopez
03-22-2011, 11:11 PM
Henri Kontinen has a great offensive game but I fear that he might be too injury prone. Injured almost all the time, but when he's playing he's brilliant (won Harrison even when injured late last year in Helsinki).

Luinir
03-22-2011, 11:15 PM
good piece from irish :)

Li Ching Yuen
03-22-2011, 11:16 PM
There's an often misconception to what all-court tennis means. Because nowadays all guys stay behind the baseline, everyone thinks that every player that moves sometimes to the net is an all-court player. Well it's not like that.

All court tennis does not mean baselining + s&v at times. It's much more complex.

Take for example Youzhny. He is the ultimate example of an all court player because he works every inch of that court with his shots aka point construction, and when needed, he steps into the forecourt and finishes the point off. That's all court tennis. Sure that doesn't mean you can't s&v and play droppers every two points and call yourself all-court player but I feel that many people today are misguided into believing that.

Btw Berankis is more of an all-court player than Raonic is. Serve has nothing to do with being an all-court player. He might be one of the most complete big servers we'll have but let's step away a little and not throw every accolades in the book at him. Yes he can volley, but that is not his trademark style, just a trick he has in the bag.

Harrison is indeed a good perpetuator of the style.

Johnny Groove
03-22-2011, 11:22 PM
Harrison ripping 2nd serve returns and closing the net, that is all court tennis.

Li Ching Yuen
03-22-2011, 11:29 PM
Harrison ripping 2nd serve returns and closing the net, that is all court tennis.

Ripping the return = not really, just a matter of ability (seeing the ball early) and perhaps, guts.

Choosing to close the point quickly rather than defend = yeah, pretty much one side of that style.

Filo V.
03-22-2011, 11:49 PM
Raonic isn't an all court player to me. He's a baseliner. And he's not a great volleyer.

ossie
03-23-2011, 12:35 AM
if your forehand is powerful and accurate enough you don't need to come to the net.

v-money
03-23-2011, 12:41 AM
if your forehand is powerful and accurate enough you don't need to come to the net.

Is this your way of justifying Del Potro as an all-court player?...he's not. He's extremely one demential, doesn't even have a good serve. These new up-and-coming players are a refreshing to see, contrasting some of the players that just stand at the baseline and hit big forehands.

YouKnowWho
03-23-2011, 12:43 AM
Nice article.

As far as your question: "Do you think they will keep playing all-court tennis as they progress in their careers?" , I can only offer my opinion about Berankis as I don't think that I am qualified enough in tennis to make any statements about others that are mentioned.

I think Berankis will keep being an all-court player whether he is willing or not, because he doesn't really have a choice. He doesn't have one very strong weapon but is pretty solid in all aspects of the game (one could make an argument about serve, his serve has really been a problem recently), therefore he often HAS to outsmart his opponent by constructing the point in his favor if he wants to win. I don't see that changing, I think point construction will be an absolute key throughout his career.

I think maybe it's similar with Harrison, but as I said I am no expert :)

Tennis4you-com
03-23-2011, 02:06 AM
I think all court tennis is important. It did Federer wonders.

BIGMARAT
03-23-2011, 07:00 AM
22 years old is not a youngster.

Nole and Andy are only 23 they have been in top 4 for more than 2 years now.

Id say, Raonic and Harrison we can consider youngster.

tribalfusion
03-23-2011, 07:15 AM
Harrison seems like the most likely successful candidate currently to me

Dolgo seems to be grouped in with players who are younger than himself whereas he is closer to Djokovic in age

LawrenceOfTennis
03-23-2011, 07:15 AM
Krajinovic last year in Belgrade was stunning, every part of his game was awesome and his BH was simply the best I've seen of any of these youngsters, shame he hasn't really excelled though :(

I agree, although nowhere on rankings and plays rarely because of shoulder injury, he is the most talented of these very good youngsters. He should be in the top 100 by now without injury.

Sombrerero loco
03-23-2011, 10:10 AM
people has forgotten tomic already?

duong
03-23-2011, 10:43 AM
What do you think of these young stars' style of play? Do you think they will keep playing all-court tennis as they progress in their careers?

I agree with this trend with these youngsters' styles, which is nice, but I don't know how far this will lead them.

So far, I think the potential of these youngsters, even in the future, is limited comparing to a typical great mover-complete baseliner like Nadal-Djokovic-Murray-Del Potro.

My main hope is on Harrison, although my favorite one is Dimitrov.

As for Raonic, he doesn't have as a bad volley as Filo V thinks, I believe, maybe he should watch more of his matches : he can have a good volley, and considering his game, I think in the end he will be the one who goes more to the net.

ossie
03-23-2011, 10:46 AM
Is this your way of justifying Del Potro as an all-court player?...he's not. He's extremely one demential, doesn't even have a good serve. These new up-and-coming players are a refreshing to see, contrasting some of the players that just stand at the baseline and hit big forehands.i am not justifying anything. what i am saying is that he does not need to come forward if he can win matches with the way he has been playing. it is ridiculous to assume that just for the sake of variety or aesthetics players should play a certain way. you say delpo is one-dimensional, at least inconsistency is not a dimension in his game.

oranges
03-23-2011, 10:57 AM
Perhaps he doesn't need a serve either as he can win the rally eventually from the baseline. Just roll it in and bash away. Why practice serve. Waste of time.

Henry Chinaski
03-23-2011, 03:14 PM
people has forgotten tomic already?

I didn't forget him. Just ignored him for now because he's a prick. And he seems to be fixated on winning ugly a la Murray when I've seen him play.

I didn't say Dolgo was a youngster either. I mentioned he's 22 but said he's usually grouped in with the younger players because he's a late developer and a rookie when it comes to top level tennis

v-money
03-23-2011, 03:52 PM
i am not justifying anything. what i am saying is that he does not need to come forward if he can win matches with the way he has been playing. it is ridiculous to assume that just for the sake of variety or aesthetics players should play a certain way. you say delpo is one-dimensional, at least inconsistency is not a dimension in his game.

Well I agree that he's a very good player and a consistent player, heck he won a Grand Slam, something I don't see some of these young guys doing. But I don't think many fans of tennis are fans of "consistency" and if you happen to be a fan of consistent players you may as well say that you are a fan of players who win. I'm sure most Del Potro fans like him for his tennis style and not just his success (don't know about you), but I just can't see it and think he has a one dimensional game.

LawrenceOfTennis
03-23-2011, 03:55 PM
Dancevic was the "new Fed" one time, now he's nowhere, same with Gaquet....they're all very talented but that means almost nothing. If they can keep it up for the whole season - then we can speak about their abilities and what they'd bring to the game.

tyruk14
03-23-2011, 04:20 PM
Is this your way of justifying Del Potro as an all-court player?...he's not. He's extremely one demential, doesn't even have a good serve. These new up-and-coming players are a refreshing to see, contrasting some of the players that just stand at the baseline and hit big forehands.

Del Potro is ninth on the Ricoh ATP Matchfacts Ace List. To be fair, his serve is pretty good.

Nole Rules
03-23-2011, 04:24 PM
Krajinovic has such a bad luck. He is the most talented youngster for me. He would have been in the top 100 by now without these injuries.

duong
03-23-2011, 04:59 PM
Krajinovic has such a bad luck. He is the most talented youngster for me. He would have been in the top 100 by now without these injuries.

He and Tomic are tall guys and they are subject to injuries before their body is fully prepared.

Tomic has had constant problems with his back and tall body in the last years.

It's like Del Potro : he really emerged after strengthening his body, especially his back.

In a lesser extent, Dimitrov had some problems to confirm when he became quite tall (in Rotterdam 2009 against Nadal he was smaller with a better movement)

I don't know for Raonic but I guess he also had problems with his tall body.

Harrison is smaller but he was also injured a long time until mid-2009.

duong
03-23-2011, 05:00 PM
anyway among all those only Dimitrov has a one-handed backhand :sad:

ossie
03-23-2011, 07:08 PM
Well I agree that he's a very good player and a consistent player, heck he won a Grand Slam, something I don't see some of these young guys doing. But I don't think many fans of tennis are fans of "consistency" and if you happen to be a fan of consistent players you may as well say that you are a fan of players who win. I'm sure most Del Potro fans like him for his tennis style and not just his success (don't know about you), but I just can't see it and think he has a one dimensional game.
:rolleyes: for your information del potro is my favorite player to watch.

he is the only player to have beaten both fed and nadal in the same slam, if that is not proof of his all-encompassing game i dont know what is.

Jomp1
03-23-2011, 07:10 PM
Raonic isn't an all court player to me. He's a baseliner. And he's not a great volleyer.

Agreed. If you call Raonic for all court player you can put many players in that category, including Del-Potro and Soderling. After all they play backhand, forehand, move decent and volley+slice from time to time.

In my opinion an all-court player is one who constantly mixes up the stroke and pace, and does everything when the time is right in a match.

duong
03-23-2011, 07:13 PM
Agreed. If you call Raonic for all court player you can put many players in that category, including Del-Potro and Soderling. After all they play backhand, forehand, move decent and volley+slice from time to time.

Come on Raonic has a good volley, I remember his match against Ferrer in Melbourne and it was good :shrug:

LawrenceOfTennis
03-23-2011, 07:14 PM
Come on Raonic has a good volley, I remember his match against Ferrer in Melbourne and it was good :shrug:

Yes, I agree. I don't like Raonic very much, but I think he's capable of very good volley game. O f course not a Sampras level ever....but if he learns how to go forecourt and kills those balls that'd be impressive after those bomb serves.

Jomp1
03-23-2011, 07:16 PM
Come on Raonic has a good volley, I remember his match against Ferrer in Melbourne and it was good :shrug:

All-court is more than a volley. All-court includes lob shots, drop shots and just plain mixing up what you do. Raonic doesn't do too many different things, and that's not a bad thing or anything against him at all. Better to do a few things good than everything poorly.

We could call him a modern all-court player, but that's about it.

LawrenceOfTennis
03-23-2011, 07:18 PM
All-court is more than a volley. All-court includes lob shots, drop shots and just plain mixing up what you do. Raonic doesn't do too many different things, and that's not a bad thing or anything against him at all. Better to do a few things good than everything poorly.

Agree with this too :), but after talked about volleying, I think he has a lot of time to improve, he's only 20. He definetely enters top 10 this year. well, not top 5-6 but into 8-9-10 after us open.

duong
03-23-2011, 07:21 PM
All-court is more than a volley. All-court includes lob shots, drop shots and just plain mixing up what you do. Raonic doesn't do too many different things, and that's not a bad thing or anything against him at all. Better to do a few things good than everything poorly.

yes I understand but anyway Raonic has a game different from the others which brings some freshness.

I think he can add those things you say in the future even if he will never be a Youzhny or a Federer.

And about "all-court" we shouldn't ask too much now because well, slices, dropshots, one-handed backhands, all those things are quite disappearing.

I remember Simon, who is a clever player, who said that slices were totally useless in his opinion :sad:

Also I remember some people who were impressed with Gulbis's dropshots, but well Gulbis plays dropshots, yes, but he's more of a stupid ballbasher than Raonic himself, he doesn't know at all how to use these dropshots, how to build a point, and I don't even think he has a good touch.

Adri89
03-23-2011, 08:09 PM
Also I remember some people who were impressed with Gulbis's dropshots, but well Gulbis plays dropshots, yes, but he's more of a stupid ballbasher than Raonic himself, he doesn't know at all how to use these dropshots, how to build a point, and I don't even think he has a good touch.

This could be say of De Bakker too, except that De Bakker has a good (even incredible at times) touch.
I know that he's a bit older, and can't be compare to Raonic and the others, but he's still a young player at the ATP level. He is awful since USO. I hope that he'll recover on clay because his offensive game is really a pleasure to watch. He has everything in my opinion.

duong
03-23-2011, 08:19 PM
This could be say of De Bakker too, except that De Bakker has a good (even incredible at times) touch.
I know that he's a bit older, and can't be compare to Raonic and the others, but he's still a young player at the ATP level. He is awful since USO. I hope that he'll recover on clay because his offensive game is really a pleasure to watch. He has everything in my opinion.

De Bakker is only 2 months older than Dolgopolov.

Then well personally I think Dolgopolov and De Bakker are not in the same group as the other players mentioned, but if one includes Dolgopolov, one may include De Bakker :shrug:

Fedal2010
03-23-2011, 08:20 PM
The dude asked for young players with all-court skills.
Why the hell do people keep mentioning Raonic???

vn01
03-23-2011, 08:58 PM
Dimitrov has a good serve and baseline game
Raonic has a great serve and good baseline game
Berankis has all-court game. His all weapons are equally good
Tomic has a good baseline game
Harrison has a not bad serve and a good baseline game
Dolgopolov is like Berankis, but much better, although I dislike the Ukrainian :(

tnosugar
03-23-2011, 10:57 PM
There's an often misconception to what all-court tennis means. Because nowadays all guys stay behind the baseline, everyone thinks that every player that moves sometimes to the net is an all-court player. Well it's not like that.

All court tennis does not mean baselining + s&v at times. It's much more complex.

Take for example Youzhny. He is the ultimate example of an all court player because he works every inch of that court with his shots aka point construction, and when needed, he steps into the forecourt and finishes the point off. That's all court tennis. Sure that doesn't mean you can't s&v and play droppers every two points and call yourself all-court player but I feel that many people today are misguided into believing that.

Btw Berankis is more of an all-court player than Raonic is. Serve has nothing to do with being an all-court player. He might be one of the most complete big servers we'll have but let's step away a little and not throw every accolades in the book at him. Yes he can volley, but that is not his trademark style, just a trick he has in the bag.

Harrison is indeed a good perpetuator of the style.

+1

Harrison has a beautiful game. Hope he continues along the path...

Henry Chinaski
03-24-2011, 02:55 AM
Agreed. If you call Raonic for all court player you can put many players in that category, including Del-Potro and Soderling. After all they play backhand, forehand, move decent and volley+slice from time to time.



well that's clearly bollocks

Topspindoctor
03-24-2011, 03:01 AM
The closest to all court game is probably Dimitrov. All others are either baseliners, all serve mugs or general clowns.

fast_clay
03-24-2011, 03:33 AM
what's old is new again...