Has Djokovic really improved? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Has Djokovic really improved?

helvet empire
03-21-2011, 12:35 AM
is he better than ever? I think he's better than last year, but that is because he was really inconsisten in 2010. He's not as good as late 2007 or 2009 clay court season I think
His good restults are explained by the low form of fed and nadal.

Andi-M
03-21-2011, 12:38 AM
His form is definately better than ever!!

Lleyton_
03-21-2011, 12:40 AM
His confidence, yes.

River
03-21-2011, 12:41 AM
You bet your sweet dolphin ass he's improved.

SetSampras
03-21-2011, 12:41 AM
definitely but.. Nadal also have a pretty long layoff with that injury, and of course its going to take some time for him to get back into Championship form. I still expect Nadal to dominate the clay season not Djokovic.. Along with grass. Can't see Djoker picking it back up until hardcourt season begins again.

Nadal and Fed these days Im sure are mostly concerned with bagging more slams

.-Federers_Mate-.
03-21-2011, 12:49 AM
No shit. Not only is he older and wiser he has that 2008 edge but its greater. His game has another dimension

helvet empire
03-21-2011, 12:49 AM
judgong on today's match, nole was clutch in the important moments and didn't attack as much as he should. He did so in the 3rd set, but that was because he found his 1st serve again

Certinfy
03-21-2011, 12:53 AM
Overall? Yes.
Game wise? No, his early 2008 form was better.

Filo V.
03-21-2011, 12:56 AM
His confidence has improved dramatically, a lot because he's physically fit now, and a lot because he's learned to manage his emotions. As for his game, his solidity has improved and that's crucial. He's just matured so much physically, emotionally and tactically, and right now he's devoid of weaknesses.

helvet empire
03-21-2011, 12:58 AM
mmm you might be right about the mental, although on this field he's still a bit of a midget
his game has not improved however

rafa_maniac
03-21-2011, 01:03 AM
Game wise? No, I think he's been better actually, but he's rock solid mentally nowadays and everyone else just crumbles to pieces around him.

Elbarto
03-21-2011, 02:28 AM
same game style but much better physically and an improved serve

nsidhan
03-21-2011, 02:32 AM
Improved serve.

Improved ROS.

Converting from defense to offense.

Mental toughness.

Physically fit.

Voo de Mar
03-21-2011, 03:07 AM
I think there'are two main reasons of his current form:

1) Physical improvement
2) Ability to keep the highest concentration through a very long period of time

Actually from the beginning of D"Joke's career I considered him as a player with great mentality, this type of mentality which allows you to win usually tight matches. Recently, he wasn't forced to play a tight match even once! I mean in the winning period, starting with the Davis Cup final. During the 20-match winning streak (or 23 with Hopman Cup), he played deciding set only 4 times: three times lost only two games (Berdych, Federer, Nadal), once four games (F.Lopez), but even in that match, he wasn't close to lose, led early with a break in the 3rd set.

He has been in this beautiful period characterized by enormous will to play tennis. He is dangerous at 0-40 in almost every game, whether he serves or receives doesn't really matter. Federer and Nadal experienced the same thing in their best periods, obviously this state of mind can't last forever, but the tennis history teaches us, it can last over 40 matches, so D'Joke theoretically is the halfway at the moment ;)

GreenCheese
03-21-2011, 03:11 AM
Davis Cup win -> Enormous confidence boost -> The new Nole

It's as simple as that.

Topspindoctor
03-21-2011, 03:13 AM
I would kill to see Olderer in early 2006 vs current Djoker on hard court.

helvet empire
03-21-2011, 03:17 AM
I would kill to see Olderer in early 2006 vs current Djoker on hard court.

djoker would kill not to:p:p

GreenCheese
03-21-2011, 03:20 AM
djoker would kill not to:p:p

Hahaha, exactly. :lol:

Seingeist
03-21-2011, 05:42 AM
MTF really is all over the map these days.

Ludicrous threads predicting a Djokovic CYGS, on the one hand, and equally ludicrous threads like these asking if Djokovic has "improved" or not.

Note to thread starters: your thread is not actually interesting when you begin it with a discussion question that has only one absurdly obvious and correct answer. It would have made much more sense to ask something like, "How has Djokovic's game improved," etc. (of course, that's already been discussed quite a bit as it is).

The notion is being offered that Djokovic may have remained at the exact same level as he displayed before but is now undefeated by virtue of the fact of the miraculously lowered levels of ALL of his respective opponents? This smacks of the uproariously braindead baldurdash that Wordy Cabbage keeps repeating about Djokovic only winning because of his opponents coincidentally playing badly when they face him. :haha:

The Magician
03-21-2011, 06:03 AM
MTF really is all over the map these days.

Ludicrous threads predicting a Djokovic CYGS, on the one hand, and equally ludicrous threads like these asking if Djokovic has "improved" or not.

Note to thread starters: your thread is not actually interesting when you begin it with a discussion question that has only one absurdly obvious and correct answer. It would have made much more sense to ask something like, "How has Djokovic's game improved," etc. (of course, that's already been discussed quite a bit as it is).

The notion is being offered that Djokovic may have remained at the exact same level as he displayed before but is now undefeated by virtue of the fact of the miraculously lowered levels of ALL of his respective opponents? This smacks of the uproariously braindead baldurdash that Wordy Cabbage keeps repeating about Djokovic only winning because of his opponents coincidentally playing badly when they face him. :haha:

The only opponents who have to be playing worse are Murray, Nadull, and Federer. None of the other players matter. That Murray and Federer are playing badly is obviously true, and Nadull had an injury at the AO and only made the final because of a clown draw. It's obvious he is still not mentally ready for top level tennis again. I like how you use wording to make it seem like a ridiculous proposition that ALL his opposition has to be playing worse as if all 1,000 ranked ATP players are a challenge. Too bad I saw through your :bs:

finishingmove
03-21-2011, 06:05 AM
his forehand has evolved

and he's more mentally mature now

Aloimeh
03-21-2011, 06:16 AM
Seems to me he's a bit smarter too.

And his net play seemed better tonight than usual, perhaps because of the confidence.

Seingeist
03-21-2011, 06:44 AM
The only opponents who have to be playing worse are Murray, Nadull, and Federer. None of the other players matter. That Murray and Federer are playing badly is obviously true, and Nadull had an injury at the AO and only made the final because of a clown draw. It's obvious he is still not mentally ready for top level tennis again. I like how you use wording to make it seem like a ridiculous proposition that ALL his opposition has to be playing worse as if all 1,000 ranked ATP players are a challenge. Too bad I saw through your :bs:

And I like how you attempt to attribute your own obtuseness to the allegedly fancy wordplay of your interlocutors. :lol:

It is categorically true that anyone who claims that Djokovic's wins are due solely to the coincidentally dropped levels of his opponents (whether we interpret "opponents" in a comprehensive way--as both Lively Cabbage and the poll-maker seem to--or in a more limited way that only includes his top rivals) is a thoroughgoing nincompoop who is not to be taken seriously.

However, insofar as you and Terra Cabbage have more than amply demonstrated nincompoopery on a variety of occasions, the statement of the above principle is a bit superfluous.

helvet empire
03-21-2011, 06:59 AM
MTF really is all over the map these days.

Ludicrous threads predicting a Djokovic CYGS, on the one hand, and equally ludicrous threads like these asking if Djokovic has "improved" or not.

Note to thread starters: your thread is not actually interesting when you begin it with a discussion question that has only one absurdly obvious and correct answer. It would have made much more sense to ask something like, "How has Djokovic's game improved," etc. (of course, that's already been discussed quite a bit as it is).

The notion is being offered that Djokovic may have remained at the exact same level as he displayed before but is now undefeated by virtue of the fact of the miraculously lowered levels of ALL of his respective opponents? This smacks of the uproariously braindead baldurdash that Wordy Cabbage keeps repeating about Djokovic only winning because of his opponents coincidentally playing badly when they face him. :haha:

and doesn't that promote your absurdely obvious and correct answer that djokovic has improved?:confused:
first, the question is "better than ever", which doesn't mean that he's not better than at the end of 2010. It means better than EVER, including beginning 2008 for instance.
The way I see it he is on a confidence boost due to davis cup that will end as soon as someone will kick his as,s. And yes fed and nadal are playing piss poor.
you need to chill out.

helvet empire
03-21-2011, 07:02 AM
his forehand has evolved

and he's more mentally mature now

he double faulted to give the break in the matches against federer and nadal
he has always had a good forehand, he just decides to step up and unleash it when he's confident, which he is now.
look at this video and you will see that he didn't magically invent a forehand in the past few months:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDiY5iCXX0U

most of today's match against nadal his forehand was very passive

finishingmove
03-21-2011, 07:27 AM
he double faulted to give the break in the matches against federer and nadal
he has always had a good forehand, he just decides to step up and unleash it when he's confident, which he is now.
look at this video and you will see that he didn't magically invent a forehand in the past few months:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDiY5iCXX0U

most of today's match against nadal his forehand was very passive

what i meant was that he added more topspin on the forehand. he rarely hits flat nowadays, though he can penetrate the court well with his forehand, when not passive.

MADOXXX
03-21-2011, 01:30 PM
Better service motion. Fitter. Going for his forehand more. But all of this improvement does not compare to his confidence and his belief in beating Federer and Nadal. His mentality too, he does not beat himself up when broken, he gets right back to offense and goes for his shots

Sonja1989
03-21-2011, 01:32 PM
Yes, he improved so much. But he was good also in 2008 or 2009, but I don't know what did he do in last year.
But I think he's better than ever. ;)

I think better attitude (and of course his shot too.)

Forehander
03-21-2011, 03:33 PM
How can you possibly not notice that his racquet head speed on both sides, serve and movement have dramatically improve after the off season?

duong
03-21-2011, 03:49 PM
Note to thread starters: your thread is not actually interesting when you begin it with a discussion question that has only one absurdly obvious and correct answer. It would have made much more sense to ask something like, "How has Djokovic's game improved," etc. (of course, that's already been discussed quite a bit as it is).


I don't think the question is stupid : game-wise I've seen Djokovic play a better aggressive game in the past, and even his serve used to be better imo.

The poll answers are stupid because the "he wins because everybody else sucks" is obviously stupid, and I could not answer that.

His returns and defense are better, his physique is better so far, his desire and will are strong and more mature.

But when people say "his serve has improved", they don't remember his serve from 2007-208 which was much better than in this awful serving last year 2010.

And he hasn't shown much aggressive game against Nadal and Fed, except the final set yesterday. I've seen him more constantly aggressive on hardcourts in the past, esp behind his serve.

Anyway the only important matter here is how it will stay with time. And imo Nadal may still be too strong for him on a longer period, as he was in 2008.

duong
03-21-2011, 03:51 PM
How can you possibly not notice that his racquet head speed on both sides, serve and movement have dramatically improve after the off season?

the question is not "comparing to last year", but comparing to his best (first part of 2008)

ssin
03-21-2011, 04:01 PM
The main difference is maturity. Gamewise, not much. These days it's not easy to put D-Joke out of his mental balance. A banal example: Let's recall how he reacted to Roddick's "flu" comments at USO 2008. It got to Nole, he reacted badly and such things could reflect on his game. It was so stupid of Nole to react emotionally to a loudmouth, it just can't happen now :)

btw, good posts duong. ;)

Li Ching Yuen
03-21-2011, 04:13 PM
He has improved proportionally with Sonja1989's English skills ever since she joined the site in March last year. Which was the time when Djokovic was losing to Rochus I think.

Coincidence?

I think not.

Beware.

The Moon is getting bigger and closer.

River
03-21-2011, 04:16 PM
The main difference is maturity. Gamewise, not much. These days it's not easy to put D-Joke out of his mental balance. A banal example: Let's recall how he reacted to Roddick's "flu" comments at USO 2008. It got to Nole, he reacted badly and such things could reflect on his game. It was so stupid of Nole to react emotionally to a loudmouth, it just can't happen now :)

btw, good posts duong. ;)

Basically, players can't talk trash cause it's a 'gentleman's game'.

But the fans can be as egotistical, trash talking and offensive to the player as they want.

The man had dozens of illnesses to excuse his losses. How did he get better this year? Because the year prior to this, he stopped making excuses, admitted his losses, rolled with the punches and just got plain better. I don't ever recall Tennis being so sensitive way back when. Roddick called him out on it. There were a lot of matches that Nole could have won back then but he didn't.

Sonja1989
03-21-2011, 04:22 PM
He has improved proportionally with Sonja1989's English skills ever since she joined the site in March last year. Which was the time when Djokovic was losing to Rochus I think.

Coincidence?

I think not.

Beware.

The Moon is getting bigger and closer.

:kiss: :lol:
Thanks. Do you remember my early English? Ouch. That's bad news, it was really catastrophe.
But Djokovic win his all match. :) It should be mean my English is perfect... But everybody knows.. not (yet). ;)

Li Ching Yuen
03-21-2011, 04:30 PM
:kiss: :lol:
Thanks. Do you remember my early English? Ouch. That's bad news, it was really catastrophe.
But Djokovic win his all match. :) It should be mean my English is perfect... But everybody knows.. not (yet). ;)

No. Don't put too much pressure on yourself. If you're the kind of Hungarian that I know, you're FINE. Mighty fine.

Super Djoker
03-21-2011, 04:34 PM
What a stupid question! Of course he has. He always had this rock solid defence! But now that it is backed up with a good serve it is putting even more pressure than ever for people to hold serve against him. The serve is key. His extra confidence has turned his forehand into a topspining demon. All the elements have been there for years. You don,t spent 4 years as the third best player in the world without being a damn good player. This year his game has gone up a notch. He will be world number 1 by the end of the year. If he does,nt il get castrated!

Sonja1989
03-21-2011, 04:42 PM
No. Don't put too much pressure on yourself. If you're the kind of Hungarian that I know, you're FINE. Mighty fine.

Thanks. :)
I put that post on my sig. :D

Commander Data
03-21-2011, 04:54 PM
He has confidence at the moment. otherwise his game seems like 2008.

Time Violation
03-21-2011, 05:05 PM
He has confidence at the moment. otherwise his game seems like 2008.

Well, he won a GS then, so he was quite good already. But definitely he's far more experienced and much fitter now compared to then, if nothing else :)

Vida
03-21-2011, 05:45 PM
different, if not better, in virtually every aspect of his game.

different mechanics in the serve. probably numbers would attest that it is 'better' too.

more options in his groundstrokes - he can now choose to play flat or with more spin. in 07 he was playing more flat, later on with the new stick with more spin - he can now do both. (thats putting it roughly, dont quote me)

movement is, I reckon, also better due to physical imporvements and different training regimen that the new coach brought in.

net game - much better.

mentality - new guy totally :shrug:

all in all, the improvement is amazing and for that we bow him in the shrine of nole :bowdown:

if you dont believe me, ask federer and nadal :yeah:

freeandlonely
03-21-2011, 06:01 PM
Overall, yes.

MARTINBALDRIDGE
03-21-2011, 06:07 PM
I think he's improved yes. He was playing well to reach last years US Open and until his contact lens fell out atnthe O2 Masters too.

Since the Davis Cup final though, his game has reached another level and he seems incredibly, confident and in control of his game.

I still think Rafa's better though and was surprised he let Nole back into yesterday's match.

Brilliant performance though by Nole - time will tell if he can keep it up

AncicCilic
03-21-2011, 11:06 PM
He has definetelly improved, i'd point out 2 things:

1) Serve
2) Current confidence

Number 2 surely plays a big role but how big we have yet to see after some bad period comes.

NadalYoung
03-22-2011, 02:59 AM
Confidence wise yes

helvet empire
03-22-2011, 03:45 AM
Confidence wise yes

well confidence could only be temporary, it's not really an improvement.
what I meant was, do you see any permanent change in djokovic's game that make him a better player, or is he just going through a good phase that will end soon? I think the later

NadalYoung
03-22-2011, 03:47 AM
well confidence could only be temporary, it's not really an improvement.
what I meant was, do you see any permanent change in djokovic's game that make him a better player, or is he just going through a good phase that will end soon? I think the later

Well serve for sure but he's had a serve before,it just dropped off for a couple years

TMJordan
03-22-2011, 08:04 AM
IMO he is still as muggy as ever.

Sonja1989
03-22-2011, 08:12 AM
IMO he is still as muggy as ever.

:lol:

fast_clay
03-22-2011, 08:13 AM
no i think his game was pretty much set in 2007... he hasn't improved it...

in fact, by attempting to add certain aspects to his game, his game went backwards, when it was more than ok to leave it alone allow it to evolve naturally on tour as it was...

experience however, he added more than the average in three years you'd have to say..

mentally - improved since 2007
forehand - behind 2007
1st serve - par with 2007
2nd serve - behind 2007

duong
03-22-2011, 08:20 AM
different mechanics in the serve. probably numbers would attest that it is 'better' too.


I don't think so if you compare with the second part of 2007 and the first part of 2008 he played more aces or serve winners in that time.

ssin
03-22-2011, 08:25 AM
I would say that both his 1st and 2nd serve are still behind 2007-2008. His serve used to be much more of a weapon back then.

fast_clay
03-22-2011, 08:34 AM
I would say that both his 1st and 2nd serve are still behind 2007-2008. His serve used to be much more of a weapon back then.

yeah... his 1st serve spiked at AO08... he really was shutting down matches purely because of his 1st and 2nd serve in the months around that time... outside of that spike though, i think it is the lack of movement, kick and bite on his 2nd serve that is the outstanding difference... he really was able to trouble most players with it - particularly the kicker to right hander on both deuce and ad courts - and the kicker at the body vs lefties...

just dont see him building the pressure on his return games like he used to when we waltzed through 4 or 5 consecutive games untouchable on serve...

he's still doing a lot more miles out there than he used to to win matches...

ssin
03-22-2011, 08:48 AM
You are 100% right, those 2nd serve kickers were awesome, reliable and frustrating to opponents, and he was producing them galore. I remember one kickserve bounced almost completely over a player, I forgot who it was :D

On the other hand, I can't wait to see him perform on clay, for all this could mean he's shifting his focus. Nole is a smart kid, he adjusts his game to opponents more than other players do, and more effectively. If he performs better on clay, then we can talk more about some improvements in his game. Until then, for me it's just more confidence and maturity.

emotion
03-25-2011, 03:30 PM
Field is awful now, but also playing well. So a mix really

rocketassist
03-25-2011, 03:35 PM
Same as 08 but the field is worse.

samanosuke
03-25-2011, 04:08 PM
I would say nothing dramatically . He improved mentality but the main thing is that he built aura which allows to him routinizing majority of players even when he is playing badly . With rest of " no majority " players the thing is , he was close to nadal before also and some matches were on the edge, now is capable to win these matches , and with fed is just that fed is past his prime and today is loosing matches which before was winning

Branimir
03-25-2011, 04:26 PM
His game got smarter. Like not necessary switching momentum all the time, not necessarily switch angles, pushing opponents out of the court with 3-4 identical swings. He is not going for that winner right away. His game does not have drop shots at random moments anymore! That's big improvement. His serve is still nowhere near as it was in 2008, but his stamina is great. He doesn't have those: "I am gonna die" moments anymore.

Lurking
03-25-2011, 04:42 PM
People forget just how garbage the field was. Djokovic did more in 2007 than he did in 2010 and in 2008 in the spring it was awful, Rome MS that year was one of the worst tournaments ever as well. He'll have proved he's different when he wins outside the AO, chances are the only real improvements he's made between 2009 and 2011 is being able to peak at the Slam that suits him best again and all the so called "mental" bagage is simply a result of not being that good.

MB.
03-25-2011, 05:26 PM
Consistency, confidence have helped the game come together in 2011 more than anything, I think. Serve's there to stay, it looks like.

Mechlan
03-25-2011, 05:56 PM
Mostly agree with the assessments. Confidence is back, fitness is improved, serve has improved over last year though it's certainly not back to its 2008 level. Mostly it's confidence. We'll see what happens when he gets thumped 2 or 3 times by Nadal in the clay season. Hopefully he has better resiliency now than he did in 2008.