Ferrer, Davydenko best returners according to combined ATP Matchfacts 2006-2010 [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Ferrer, Davydenko best returners according to combined ATP Matchfacts 2006-2010

n8
03-19-2011, 12:03 PM
Ferrer won 32.3% of return games between 2006 and 2010, the highest of anyone on tour. He also topped points won returning second serve with 55.2%. Davydenko comes in second with 32% of return games won and the Russian tops points won returning first serve with 34.2%. Nadal won the most break points at 44.6%.

To see how the rest (top 32 players according to match win percentage) measure up, see http://thebigtip.com.au/tennis/games-best-returners-statistical-proof

Action Jackson
03-19-2011, 12:04 PM
Not surprising.

locyka19
03-19-2011, 12:05 PM
They can be the best returners.So what? If you're extremely good in one aspect of the game and not in all parts, you're not a champion.

ossie
03-19-2011, 12:05 PM
i hope you are reading this gascoke.

duong
03-19-2011, 12:33 PM
Thanks for the article :yeah:

Ferrer's stat is also higher because he plays more on clay.

Also for him and Davydenko, they play more smaller tournaments where it's easier to raise that stat (like all of the stats made in %wins by the way ;) ).

I do think that Djokovic is the current best returner (the stats cover a very large period since 2006 but since last year Djokovic improved a lot that part and I think he had the best stats for that last year), but Ferrer is clearly one of the best ones : I saw him return Ljubicic's serve damn well, which few players can do, also Raonic in Melbourne this year.

As for Davydenko, what's strange is that I saw that he doesn't perform very well against big servers quite often. It seems he doesn't like kicked serves especially.

Something else : stats don't always show it (because winning points on second serve can be made by something else than the return) but the abilities on return on first serve and second serve are two very different topics imo : on first serve your anticipation and eye are tested and you mostly try to "return in the court" first, on second serve the best players manage to be aggressive but the eye is less important.

For instance Berdych to me looks bad to return first serve but quite good at returning second serve. Ferrer is good for both.

Federer is good at returning first serves but doesn't have a very good ability to attack second serves (where most of the time players look for his backhand)

BodyServe
03-19-2011, 12:39 PM
Federer is good at returning first serves but doesn't have a very good ability to attack second serves (where most of the time players look for his backhand)

That's because he can't generate his own pace with his so called eastetically pleasing yet weak as piss backhand.

Nixer
03-19-2011, 12:40 PM
They can be the best returners.So what? If you're extremely good in one aspect of the game and not in all parts, you're not a champion.

Cool story, bro :yeah:

Sonja1989
03-19-2011, 12:42 PM
Ferrer and Davydenko are just too good in their return-game! :D :bigclap:

rocketassist
03-19-2011, 12:43 PM
Ferrer I agree with- the faster the serve, the better the return.

Davydenko's is just behind the leading pack for ROS- I'd put him equal with say Djokovic's. Both struggle with big first serves but they can crack a few winners off 2nd serves.

duong
03-19-2011, 12:47 PM
That's because he can't generate his own pace with his so called eastetically pleasing yet weak as piss backhand.

who actually has an ability to make great returns on second serve among the one-handed backhanders ?

Maybe Kohlschreiber ? sometimes Robredo ?

Double-handed backhanders look advantaged on this part.

Less on first serve where the one-handed backhand can catch some tough balls, but on second serve it's quite clear imo that double-handed backhands have a great advantage.

duong
03-19-2011, 12:51 PM
by the way he's not in your stats but I remember that Chela was also one of the very highest ranked players ;)

once again the fact that he plays a lot on clay must help.

BodyServe
03-19-2011, 12:53 PM
who actually has an ability to make great returns on second serve among the one-handed backhanders ?

Maybe Kohlschreiber ? sometimes Robredo ?

Double-handed backhanders look advantaged on this part.

Less on first serve where the one-handed backhand can catch some tough balls, but on second serve it's quite clear imo that double-handed backhands have a great advantage.

Kohlschreiber yes, Robredo certainly not that's a really really weak backhand.

Ljubicic, Wawrinka, Gasquet, Golubev are some players that can generate good pace.
Gonzalez too.

n8
03-19-2011, 12:59 PM
For instance Berdych to me looks bad to return first serve but quite good at returning second serve. Ferrer is good for both.


Your observation certainly matches the stats; Berdych is 44th in points won on 1st serve and 12th on points won on second serve.


Federer is good at returning first serves but doesn't have a very good ability to attack second serves (where most of the time players look for his backhand)

who actually has an ability to make great returns on second serve among the one-handed backhanders ?

Maybe Kohlschreiber ? sometimes Robredo ?

Double-handed backhanders look advantaged on this part.

Less on first serve where the one-handed backhand can catch some tough balls, but on second serve it's quite clear imo that double-handed backhands have a great advantage.

Another good observation. Federer is much higher on 1st serve return rank than 2nd serve and so is Wawrinka.

duong
03-19-2011, 01:02 PM
Kohlschreiber yes, Robredo certainly not that's a really really weak backhand.

Ljubicic, Wawrinka, Gasquet, Golubev are some players that can generate good pace.
Gonzalez too.

yes thank you :yeah:

I have good impressions about Golubev and Ljubicic especially.

Gasquet I find a little bit disappointing on that return matter (even if we are talking about second serves here). Wawrinka not that good in my eyes as well.

And Gonzo well very seldom imo

n8
03-19-2011, 01:05 PM
by the way he's not in your stats but I remember that Chela was also one of the very highest ranked players ;)

once again the fact that he plays a lot on clay must help.

You're good!

Chela ranked 35th so missed the cut off but here are his ranking in each return category:

Ret 1st Serve Ret 2nd Serve Break Points Ret Games Won
5 16 14 10

Chela is the second best returner not on the list. The best is Volardri!

Ret 1st Serve Ret 2nd Serve Break Points Ret Games Won
7 13 13 8

And that's all of the top 10 (in return games won).

Lleyton_
03-19-2011, 01:09 PM
Federer break points won - 24th :explode:

Nadull_tard
03-19-2011, 01:09 PM
If you're extremely good in one aspect of the game and not in all parts, you're not a champion.

Nope. Nadal is great only in movement/speed, very mediocre in other departments and has won 9 GS titles already. It's obviously possible.

duong
03-19-2011, 01:10 PM
Your observation certainly matches the stats; Berdych is 44th in points won on 1st serve and 12th on points won on second serve.

yes, in a lesser extent Nalbandian is a little bit in the same case even if his return on first serve is better than Berdych's, his aggressivity on second serve is impressive and your stats show it as well :yeah:

As for Davydenko, as I told you I had the impression that he struggled against some big servers (Roddick, Llodra, and he was not comfortable against ISner and KArlovic). Maybe there's another explanation which is that he's more able than some others to make stupid errors on his own serve without the opponent's help : when Davy is off he's really off :lol:

I've often read that about Djoko-Roddick's H2H as well, but imo, this H2H derives from pecualiar situations, not from a general Djokovic's ability : when Djoko is well he just outplays Roddick :shrug:

duong
03-19-2011, 01:12 PM
Chela is the second best returner not on the list. The best is Volardri!

Ret 1st Serve Ret 2nd Serve Break Points Ret Games Won
7 13 13 8


Volandri is the typical case who only plays on clay except if the rules oblige him to play elsewhere :lol:

Chela at least plays a little bit outside of clay.

Mungo
03-19-2011, 01:17 PM
Those stats are BS though. They play smaller tourneys and weaker opponents so they win more return games.

vn01
03-19-2011, 01:19 PM
They're two of the best returnes, so I am not surprised

n8
03-19-2011, 09:43 PM
Federer break points won - 24th :explode:

I think a good measure of how clutch someone is on break points is comparing their break point conversion rate with their percentage of return games won. If they win a lot of return games, we expect them to win a lot a break points. Doing this, Federer, Murray and Cilic rank poorly while Nadal, Soderling, Stepanek and Robredo do really well.

yes, in a lesser extent Nalbandian is a little bit in the same case even if his return on first serve is better than Berdych's, his aggressivity on second serve is impressive and your stats show it as well :yeah:

As for Davydenko, as I told you I had the impression that he struggled against some big servers (Roddick, Llodra, and he was not comfortable against ISner and KArlovic). Maybe there's another explanation which is that he's more able than some others to make stupid errors on his own serve without the opponent's help : when Davy is off he's really off :lol:


I guess Davydenko must be excellent at returning first serves of players without such a big first serve.

duong
03-20-2011, 12:23 AM
I think a good measure of how clutch someone is on break points is comparing their break point conversion rate with their percentage of return games won.

I think the most direct stat is to compare with the % of points won on return.

BodyServe
03-20-2011, 01:02 PM
I think the most direct stat is to compare with the % of points won on return.

:yeah:

Not only that, you can do the same with the break points saved compared to % of service points won.

Filo V.
03-20-2011, 01:28 PM
Not surprising. David, Nikolay and Rafa all return in different ways but each are so effective. Nikolay is (was) an aggressive returner with great timing and could win many points a match off the return. David is a consistent returner who sees the ball amazingly and can get everything back deep. Rafa also tends to be very good at seeing serves and getting them back (albeit many times short), and then he can use his movement and defensive skills to get into an advantageous position.

Pirata.
03-20-2011, 05:20 PM
Federer break points won - 24th :explode:

:o

Henry Chinaski
03-20-2011, 07:42 PM
Not really relevant to topic but break points converted/saved stats in tennis bug me.

A more relevant stat would be break point games saved or converted.

The goal is to save the game. if you save 9 break points in a game but lose the tenth your stats are gonna look pretty good but it's obviously not worth a shit.

Ridiculous that such an important stat isn't even recorded.

fast_clay
03-20-2011, 08:26 PM
Not really relevant to topic but break points converted/saved stats in tennis bug me.

A more relevant stat would be break point games saved or converted.

The goal is to save the game. if you save 9 break points in a game but lose the tenth your stats are gonna look pretty good but it's obviously not worth a shit.

Ridiculous that such an important stat isn't even recorded.

hearing you... return stats we get are leaky

also, where do the extras go when you break to love...? you have two spare so, steam rolling an opponent on return is a prowess... no...?

break points unused would also be an interesting study in relation to the stats given...

n8
03-20-2011, 11:38 PM
I think the most direct stat is to compare with the % of points won on return.

Not really relevant to topic but break points converted/saved stats in tennis bug me.

A more relevant stat would be break point games saved or converted.

The goal is to save the game. if you save 9 break points in a game but lose the tenth your stats are gonna look pretty good but it's obviously not worth a shit.

Ridiculous that such an important stat isn't even recorded.

I agree with both of you. It's a shame the ATP doesn't provide these statistics.

tribalfusion
03-22-2011, 04:06 PM
Not really relevant to topic but break points converted/saved stats in tennis bug me.

A more relevant stat would be break point games saved or converted.

The goal is to save the game. if you save 9 break points in a game but lose the tenth your stats are gonna look pretty good but it's obviously not worth a shit.

Ridiculous that such an important stat isn't even recorded.

I always thought this too.

Tennis stats are somewhat primitive considering where the sports world is at the moment otherwise...

tribalfusion
03-22-2011, 04:08 PM
Also of relevance to this thread, Rafa was asked if Djokovic was the best returner and this is what he had to say:



Del Potro the other day said he thought Novak has the best service return in the men’s game at the moment. Would you agree with that?



RAFAEL NADAL: He’s a very good returner. Difficult to say who is the better one, because we have to talk in general. We have to put all the surfaces together, not only hard court.

So for me, David Ferrer is fantastic returner. Federer for sure, too. Andy Murray, too. Nalbandian is unbelievable. Djokovic is there; he’s in this group. But say who is better than other one, for me is impossible.


http://www.nadalnews.com/2011/03/22/iw-post-final-presser/

Orka_n
03-22-2011, 04:51 PM
They can be the best returners.So what? If you're extremely good in one aspect of the game and not in all parts, you're not a champion.What? Look at Del Potro, he's great at nothing except for his power game.
It's not necessary to be a complete player in order to win matches, even at the top level. You only have to be able to play to your strengths.

Li Ching Yuen
03-22-2011, 04:56 PM
What? Look at Del Potro, he's great at nothing except for his power game.
It's not necessary to be a complete player in order to win matches, even at the top level. You only have to be able to play to your strengths.

Del Potro has:

- The best movement of a guy of his height.
- best forehand other than Federer/Nadal
- rock solid backhand
- decent serve
- excellent returner
- great defensive skills for his physique

The only area where he sucks is volleys and stamina.

MalwareDie
03-22-2011, 06:30 PM
Del Potro has:

- best forehand other than Federer/Nadal

That is debatable.

excellent returner

No, Del Potro does not have an excellent return of service.

philosophicalarf
03-22-2011, 06:30 PM
I think a good measure of how clutch someone is on break points is comparing their break point conversion rate with their percentage of return games won.

Agreed. Can say the same thing for servers, against serve points won %. In that case, it neatly disproves the myth about players "lifting their game" to save breakpoints - nearly every server performs worse on such points than they do regularly, even the best by 1% or so, the mugs often by 5%.

Li Ching Yuen
03-22-2011, 06:37 PM
No, Del Potro does not have an excellent return of service.

Actually you're right.

Since he is almost 2m tall his return of serve is incredibly amazing.

Pirata.
03-22-2011, 07:27 PM
Also of relevance to this thread, Rafa was asked if Djokovic was the best returner and this is what he had to say:

Del Potro the other day said he thought Novak has the best service return in the men’s game at the moment. Would you agree with that?



RAFAEL NADAL: He’s a very good returner. Difficult to say who is the better one, because we have to talk in general. We have to put all the surfaces together, not only hard court.

So for me, David Ferrer is fantastic returner. Federer for sure, too. Andy Murray, too. Nalbandian is unbelievable. Djokovic is there; he’s in this group. But say who is better than other one, for me is impossible.

Rafa spilling that true tea :worship:

abraxas21
03-22-2011, 08:05 PM
I think the most direct stat is to compare with the % of points won on return.

i just did this and this is what i get:

Federer this season:

wins 70% of his service points but saves only 65% of break points.
wins 42% of his return points but converts only 40% of his break points.

conclusion: not very clutch, it seems.

Davydenko this season:

62% service points won and 64% break points saved.
40% return points won and 44% return points converted.

conclusion: clutch.

Nadal this season:

66% service points won but 63% break points saved
45% return points won but 43% break points converted.

conclusion: not very clutch

Djokovic this season:

69% service points won but 68% break points saved.
46% return points won and 49% break points converted.

conclusion: kind of clutch

Ferrer this season:

66% service points won and 69% break points saved.
44% return points won but 42% break points converted.

conclusion: kind of clutch


but overall, the season is just starting and these numbers are too low to make any meaningful conclusions. plus, the numbers are probably too low to know whether the differences are statistically significant. i guess some statistical test like the t-student could be run to know what differences are statistically significant to call a player a choker or a clutch player.

if would be great if i could have the past data.

Orka_n
03-22-2011, 08:39 PM
Del Potro has:

- The best movement of a guy of his height.
- best forehand other than Federer/Nadal
- rock solid backhand
- decent serve
- excellent returner
- great defensive skills for his physique

The only area where he sucks is volleys and stamina.Who cares if he's great "for a guy that tall"? Compared to the other top pros he's merely an okay defender and mover. And he's not an excellent returner. :lol:

That leaves:
Good forehand
Solid backhand
Decent serve

Wow... complete player this Delpo.
As I said, take away his power and he's not even in the top 50. But again: that doesn't matter because he manages to play to his strengths. :shrug:

Li Ching Yuen
03-22-2011, 08:42 PM
Who cares if he's great "for a guy that tall"? Compared to the other top pros he's merely an okay defender and mover. And he's not an excellent returner. :lol:

That leaves:
Good forehand
Solid backhand
Decent serve

Wow... complete player this Delpo.
As I said, take away his power and he's not even in the top 50. But again: that doesn't matter because he manages to play to his strengths. :shrug:

Korolev can hit as hard as Del Potro and he is ranked in the 400's. So there goes your theory about "power".

Now please shut your pie-hole, walk away from this thread and fix me a sandwich. I'll come back to pick it up once I finish #winning.

Lurking
03-22-2011, 08:47 PM
I think a good measure of how clutch someone is on break points is comparing their break point conversion rate with their percentage of return games won. If they win a lot of return games, we expect them to win a lot a break points. Doing this, Federer, Murray and Cilic rank poorly while Nadal, Soderling, Stepanek and Robredo do really well.


That stat ends up scewing in favour of players who struggle returning first serves as they generate less break point opportunities against high value breaks [Karlovic/Roddick] and generate more against easy breaks [Cipolla/Volandri]. As a result the 3 guys who have relatively little trouble with Roddick end up looking like they are ill suited for a match up where break point conversion is at a premium when in fact it's the opposite.

Orka_n
03-22-2011, 10:12 PM
Korolev can hit as hard as Del Potro and he is ranked in the 400's. So there goes your theory about "power".So basically, Delpo has NOTHING special going for him? :scratch: Gotcha. :yeah:

Li Ching Yuen
03-22-2011, 10:19 PM
So basically, Delpo has NOTHING special going for him? :scratch: Gotcha. :yeah:

You're very confused. Let's end this here.:)

n8
03-22-2011, 10:29 PM
i just did this and this is what i get:

Federer this season:

wins 70% of his service points but saves only 65% of break points.
wins 42% of his return points but converts only 40% of his break points.

conclusion: not very clutch, it seems.

Davydenko this season:

62% service points won and 64% break points saved.
40% return points won and 44% return points converted.

conclusion: clutch.

Nadal this season:

66% service points won but 63% break points saved
45% return points won but 43% break points converted.

conclusion: not very clutch

Djokovic this season:

69% service points won but 68% break points saved.
46% return points won and 49% break points converted.

conclusion: kind of clutch

Ferrer this season:

66% service points won and 69% break points saved.
44% return points won but 42% break points converted.

conclusion: kind of clutch

but overall, the season is just starting and these numbers are too low to make any meaningful conclusions. plus, the numbers are probably too low to know whether the differences are statistically significant. i guess some statistical test like the t-student could be run to know what differences are statistically significant to call a player a choker or a clutch player.

if would be great if i could have the past data.

Very interesting. I was already planning this for a future article but thanks for the preview. I will use stats from 2006-2010. I don't have % point won but I have % games won and from this one can estimate % points won.

That stat ends up scewing in favour of players who struggle returning first serves as they generate less break point opportunities against high value breaks [Karlovic/Roddick] and generate more against easy breaks [Cipolla/Volandri]. As a result the 3 guys who have relatively little trouble with Roddick end up looking like they are ill suited for a match up where break point conversion is at a premium when in fact it's the opposite.

Good point. I can't think of a way around that (without going overboard) but I still think it will be interesting regardless.

Orka_n
03-22-2011, 10:48 PM
You're very confused.I sure am. I simply don't understand why you won't admit consistent power is Del Potro's only true weapon when this is obvious. Because it's not like there's anything wrong with that. I like JMDP. :shrug:

BIGMARAT
03-23-2011, 06:08 AM
The stats are misleading.
They dont play the same quality of players.
Mostly top players will face co top players in later rounds, thus it will diminished their stats.

At the end of the day, Only a winner will be given a trophy and not the best returner.

duong
03-23-2011, 09:16 AM
Agreed. Can say the same thing for servers, against serve points won %. In that case, it neatly disproves the myth about players "lifting their game" to save breakpoints - nearly every server performs worse on such points than they do regularly, even the best by 1% or so, the mugs often by 5%.

yes, that's the result you've got with that stat on a overall season : all of the players save less break points on their serve than the % of points they win on their serve, I had seen someone who had made that stat on an overall season but I can't find the link back.

But I don't think it means that all of the servers are not "clutch players" :

imo the reason is simple, when a player faces a break point, it's because the opponent is currently playing better and the server less well, that's why the momentum here is biased.

That's also why some servers who have a bad stat regarding that may be rather players who have some moments losing concentration for a whole game.

if you mean to see "clutch players", imo you have to add the "differences" "% BP won/%points on return won" and "%BP saved/% points on serve won" plus consider the stats in tie-breaks for instance and other things.

Li Ching Yuen
03-23-2011, 09:31 AM
I sure am. I simply don't understand why you won't admit consistent power is Del Potro's only true weapon when this is obvious. Because it's not like there's anything wrong with that. I like JMDP. :shrug:

If that was Del Potro's only strength his career high ranking would be at 30-35 at best.

Your comprehension of what it takes to be able to win a grand slam is very lacking.

Orka_n
03-23-2011, 11:23 AM
If that was Del Potro's only strength his career high ranking would be at 30-35 at best.

Your comprehension of what it takes to be able to win a grand slam is very lacking.:lol:

Your understanding of sport is what's lacking. There is no golden rule to get wins in tennis, no certain skills that you MUST attain in order to win tournaments. Given favorable circumstances, most of the top 15 could win a slam. Not all slam winners are complete players - if you think so then I suggest you learn some history of the game. As I have said all along: winning matches is about being to play to your strengths. Back in the 80s and early 90s the court were fast and many of those who won it were "only" good at the net - but AT the net, they were exceptional and that was enough. Nowadays, the courts are slow, so to win a slam, you need to have a great baseline game. But that's it.

Li Ching Yuen
03-23-2011, 12:18 PM
:lol:

Your understanding of sport is what's lacking. There is no golden rule to get wins in tennis, no certain skills that you MUST attain in order to win tournaments. Given favorable circumstances, most of the top 15 could win a slam. Not all slam winners are complete players - if you think so then I suggest you learn some history of the game. As I have said all along: winning matches is about being to play to your strengths. Back in the 80s and early 90s the court were fast and many of those who won it were "only" good at the net - but AT the net, they were exceptional and that was enough. Nowadays, the courts are slow, so to win a slam, you need to have a great baseline game. But that's it.

Now you're arguing your own statement with this. Pretty much sums up that you have no clue whatsoever of how to word your thoughts. (I'm assuming they're in contact with reality, so I'm pretty much giving you the benefit of doubt)

In that first post I made I never said Del Potro is the best at everything, or never did I imply anywhere in this thread that to win a Grand Slam you have to be an all-around genius of tennis.

What you've been saying in this thread is this:

- Del Potro uses his power game (forehand, since you already "admitted" that he has a pretty poor serve) to win his matches and that was the main reason to why he won a slam. My question is: So what does DelPotito do when he has to engage in a 20-rally with Nadal or return's Federer's serve?...go back to his right corner and smack the forehand?... :lol:

Oh please.

If you think the Top15 at the moment all could win a slam in this period of time in tennis, then I fucking salute you and I'm telling you that I never wish to see tennis as you do.

Orka_n
03-23-2011, 12:59 PM
Now you're arguing your own statement with this. Pretty much sums up that you have no clue whatsoever of how to word your thoughts. (I'm assuming they're in contact with reality, so I'm pretty much giving you the benefit of doubt)Stop with the arrogance already.
In that first post I made I never said Del Potro is the best at everything, or never did I imply anywhere in this thread that to win a Grand Slam you have to be an all-around genius of tennis.You said "Your comprehension of what it takes to be able to win a grand slam is very lacking", so I assumed you didn't think it was enough to "only" be a great baseline power player in order to win a slam. I think it is.

What you've been saying in this thread is this:

- Del Potro uses his power game (forehand, since you already "admitted" that he has a pretty poor serve) to win his matches and that was the main reason to why he won a slam. My question is: So what does DelPotito do when he has to engage in a 20-rally with Nadal or return's Federer's serve?...go back to his right corner and smack the forehand?... :lol:Actually I think Delpo has a pretty good serve, it was you who said it was decent and I repeated what you said. His backhand is also a fine shot.
And he has a decent to good return. But what saves him in the rallies and keeps Fedal and others at bay is the weight of his shots, this is not even debatable.

If you think the Top15 at the moment all could win a slam in this period of time in tennis, then I fucking salute you and I'm telling you that I never wish to see tennis as you do.I said most of the top 15, ace. And you are glorifying top level tennis too much. It's not a perfect logical system, it's very unpredictable. I assume you know it's not always the player with the best potential who wins the tournament, and that goes for slams too. Currently, the odds are on Fedal and Nole, sure, but as I said: with the right circumstances, many can win it.

Li Ching Yuen
03-23-2011, 01:16 PM
I said most of the top 15, ace. And you are glorifying top level tennis too much. It's not a perfect logical system, it's very unpredictable. I assume you know it's not always the player with the best potential who wins the tournament, and that goes for slams too. Currently, the odds are on Fedal and Nole, sure, but as I said: with the right circumstances, many can win it.

Yeah, very unpredictable, so unpredictable that the last 24 of the last slams have been won by the same 3-4 guys.

oranges
03-23-2011, 01:20 PM
Yeah, very unpredictable, so unpredictable that the last 24 of the last slams have been won by the same 3-4 guys.

... and since that has been the case, it will go on like that indefinitely :lol:

Li Ching Yuen
03-23-2011, 01:27 PM
... and since that has been the case, it will go on like that indefinitely :lol:

Not quite sure what you're aiming at but to think that the current Top15 all could take a grand slam is nothing short of pure delusion giving while those 3-4 players that have been sweeping off slams left and right are still competing and are as potent as ever.

oranges
03-23-2011, 02:28 PM
Aiming at the fact that it's not a natural state of affairs and is bound to end sooner or later, a fact that seems to completely escape you. As long as other are making finals, saying that no others have a chance is what's delusional. And the trend is for non-Fedal finals, if you haven't noticed.

emotion
03-23-2011, 02:44 PM
Kolya is dropping now, I bet

Li Ching Yuen
03-23-2011, 02:48 PM
Aiming at the fact that it's not a natural state of affairs and is bound to end sooner or later, a fact that seems to completely escape you. As long as other are making finals, saying that no others have a chance is what's delusional. And the trend is for non-Fedal finals, if you haven't noticed.

I've never in my life talked about long-term predictions. I was talking about the current state of affairs as any sane person should.

I guess you missed that thread where I called all Nostradamus wannabes Nazi pedophiles for trying to predict Wimbledon 2012 champion or some bullshit like that.

tribalfusion
03-23-2011, 05:59 PM
The stats may be, as some have suggested, somewhat misleading since it will depend hugely on the quality of opponent and pressure situations.

I think you would be better off with more qualitative input from pros themselves who have to play each other.

The same names recur there regardless of the stats...

rocketassist
03-23-2011, 06:38 PM
The stats may be, as some have suggested, somewhat misleading since it will depend hugely on the quality of opponent and pressure situations.

I think you would be better off with more qualitative input from pros themselves who have to play each other.

The same names recur there regardless of the stats...

The stats are only never misleading when Nadal is winning them all. :rolleyes:

tribalfusion
03-23-2011, 06:55 PM
The stats are only never misleading when Nadal is winning them all. :rolleyes:

I didn't mention Nadal, moron. Moreover he comes off looking pretty good in the stats in general in years past.

Why don't you go moan about weak eras somewhere?

tennishero
03-23-2011, 07:23 PM
kolya is good but never the best returner, his backhand slice isnt great.