What do you think, will Raonic play this year's World Tour Finals in London? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

What do you think, will Raonic play this year's World Tour Finals in London?

locyka19
03-18-2011, 02:34 PM
with a good run it's possible I think

ApproachShot
03-18-2011, 02:35 PM
No, sorry. I think he will finish in the top 30 this year.

Sonja1989
03-18-2011, 02:36 PM
:eek:

No. At most top 20.

Topspindoctor
03-18-2011, 02:37 PM
lol... bandwagon much?

Nixer
03-18-2011, 02:40 PM
he's now just 12th in the Race, and will not gain much points on clay, so very unlikely

ivankg
03-18-2011, 02:41 PM
He has the power but he still missing maturity in his game, so I dont think so.

Mungo
03-18-2011, 02:46 PM
Difficult but not impossible.

oranges
03-18-2011, 02:49 PM
He's not even in top 8 in the race, meaning he would not only need to maintain this throughout the season, but do better. Not to mention we're yet to see what he can do on clay.

Sonja1989
03-18-2011, 02:57 PM
He's not even in top 8 in the race, meaning he would not only need to maintain this throughout the season, but do better. Not to mention we're yet to see what he can do on clay.

Very good argument! ;)

AncicCilic
03-18-2011, 03:17 PM
I'd put my hand in the fire that he wont. He is solid but he hasn't played many top 10 guys yet. Also, clay season with alot of points avilable is coming and i doubt that he can collect many points there. He would need some crazy result to even have a chance (ex. semis of Wimbledon or final/win on some masters) and i don't tihnk he is ready.

If he can mantain his rank and keep himself in top 30 by the end of the season he should call this year very successful.

vn01
03-18-2011, 03:23 PM
I was about to post the same thread. :D I don't think he'll qualify. Maybe he'll be in Top 20 in the year-rankings

ossie
03-18-2011, 03:25 PM
no, but dolgo might.

Argenbrit
03-18-2011, 06:31 PM
Don't think so, no. Top 20 at most.

duong
03-18-2011, 06:34 PM
you need more than one good run to be qualified for the WTF, you needed around 3400 points last two years ... the only "one run" which could give it to you is win a slam :lol:

out_here_grindin
03-18-2011, 06:43 PM
He can not be a consistent top 8 player for the whole year.

Li Ching Yuen
03-18-2011, 06:45 PM
Of course.

Plenty of opportunities to rack up points. Just think about that last part of the season with the Asian swing and the Shanghai masters and Paris masters etc...

I see some titles for him as well.

Snowwy
03-18-2011, 06:52 PM
no, but dolgo might.

No to both

Johnny Groove
03-18-2011, 06:52 PM
He has to do at least reasonably decent on clay.

Grass he should do well, and maybe he'll be in the hunt come October.

FormerRafaFan
03-18-2011, 06:57 PM
WTF?!?! Uhm.. NO. And this is coming from a fan. He will maybe reach the Top 20 at the most, but it's a long way up from top 20 to the top 10. And I'm not even sure he can be in the top 20. He will ALWAYS lose his matches against better returners, like Harrison, Ferrer and the top 4. He needs to improve his backhand, RoS, movement etc before he can even think about entering the top 10, let alone the top 8.

Li Ching Yuen
03-18-2011, 06:59 PM
Why does he have to do something decent on clay?...Verdasco is still in the top 10 and has been losing left and right for quite some time.

Almagro is close to the Top10 and he only has good results on clay.

You people have some incredible predicting skills. I think if I drugged my cat with ketamine 24/7, it would come up with some better assertions than most of you.

buzz
03-18-2011, 06:59 PM
Don't thinks so, but he might make a surprise run to the semi's in wim or(and) uso, then maybe. Or he might take the route Delpo took in his break through year(the year before he won the USO).

Li Ching Yuen
03-18-2011, 07:01 PM
WTF?!?! Uhm.. NO. And this is coming from a fan. He will maybe reach the Top 20 at the most, but it's a long way up from top 20 to the top 10. And I'm not even sure he can be in the top 20. He will ALWAYS lose his matches against better returners, like Harrison, Ferrer and the top 4. He needs to improve his backhand, RoS, movement etc before he can even think about entering the top 10, let alone the top 8.

Right.

So in your mind, because he can't beat the Top4 that means he can't be Top10?

Dude, genius. Fuck yeah.

FormerRafaFan
03-18-2011, 07:42 PM
Right.

So in your mind, because he can't beat the Top4 that means he can't be Top10?

Dude, genius. Fuck yeah.

No. I used the top 4 as an example for good returners. He will never be able to win against the good returners the way he's playing right now so he's bound to lose some matches, and there's quite a few good returners on the tour. I said Top 20 was possible but I really, really doubt he's good enough for the Top 10/8 yet.

Snowwy
03-18-2011, 07:49 PM
No. I used the top 4 as an example for good returners. He will never be able to win against the good returners the way he's playing right now so he's bound to lose some matches, and there's quite a few good returners on the tour. I said Top 20 was possible but I really, really doubt he's good enough for the Top 10/8 yet.

I honestly think he beats Harrison 8 or 9 of 10 times right now. Harrison is younger and getting better, but for now, I think that is how it is.

alter ego
03-18-2011, 07:52 PM
No he won't. Wake up he's going to have a recoil during the clay seson.

philosophicalarf
03-18-2011, 07:56 PM
Does need a lot of points, even qfs at 3 slams and 6 masters only gives you 2160 points, and might not be enough to get you to WTF. It requires real consistency across the season, plus some big results at masters/slams. The only real exception is if you do a Murray (ie make slam final+semis and win two masters, but tank the rest of the season, for 3920 points).

Last year 8th was Roddick with 3665. That consisted of:

1000 Miami win
720 IW final
360 Cinci semis
360 AO QFs
250 Brisbane win
180 Paris QFs
180 Wimbly R4
180 Basel sfs
150 San Jose final

+285 from others


So far Raonic got a tidy 300 from Memphis (atp500 finals/semis give too many points imo), 250 from San Jose, but only 205 at the Aus and 90 at IW. Very impressive, but WTF means more: he needs slam qfs, multiple masters sfs for 360 a time, and probably at least one slam semi or masters final.

At the moment, that's probably well out of his reach.


I don't think clay necessarily matters much in this discussion. He wasn't top30 end of last year, so if he does badly at clay masters, the results won't count in his best 18 - he could possibly rack up a lot of hard court 250 wins with that serve.

FormerRafaFan
03-18-2011, 08:00 PM
No he won't. Wake up he's going to have a recoil during the clay seson.

I don't think he's as bad on clay as people claim. Granted, he will never be the level of Rafa or Fed or Soderling, but not many players are at their level on clay. I saw him play on clay in Mexico and he didn't look half bad:shrug: I'm not expecting much, but I do think he will probably rack up some points by winning a few matches in the clay season. Not a lot, but yeah.. he's definitely capable of winning matches on clay, though his favorite surface is obviously hard.

LocoPorElTenis
03-18-2011, 08:05 PM
he's now just 12th in the Race, and will not gain much points on clay, so very unlikely

where can you see race points? thanks :wavey:

Tom Paulman
03-18-2011, 08:06 PM
He will win a slam, so yes ;)

swisht4u
03-18-2011, 08:12 PM
Roanic will probably end up in the teens.
With all this play he might run into some physical problems till he gets a good idea of how much his body can take.
The last match against Harrison his first serve was under 120mph at times IIRC, so problems are showing up already.

oranges
03-18-2011, 08:15 PM
where can you see race points? thanks :wavey:

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=176289 should be stickied, really

The race itself is at http://tennislive.free.fr/race

Helevorn
03-18-2011, 08:54 PM
Let's stop this insane bandwagon please. Let the guy play and show us what he can do..

alter ego
03-18-2011, 08:55 PM
I don't think he's as bad on clay as people claim. Granted, he will never be the level of Rafa or Fed or Soderling, but not many players are at their level on clay. I saw him play on clay in Mexico and he didn't look half bad:shrug: I'm not expecting much, but I do think he will probably rack up some points by winning a few matches in the clay season. Not a lot, but yeah.. he's definitely capable of winning matches on clay, though his favorite surface is obviously hard.

Playing good tennis against guys ranked in the mid 500s dosen't mean anything when we are talking about master series level.

Pirao666
03-18-2011, 09:00 PM
with a good run it's possible I think

Lol... bandwagoning at its best.

Nixer
03-18-2011, 09:15 PM
where can you see race points? thanks :wavey:

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=176289 should be stickied, really

The race itself is at http://tennislive.free.fr/race

yeah, that's exactly where I usually look :yeah:

ApproachShot
03-18-2011, 09:15 PM
Does need a lot of points, even qfs at 3 slams and 6 masters only gives you 2160 points, and might not be enough to get you to WTF. It requires real consistency across the season, plus some big results at masters/slams. The only real exception is if you do a Murray (ie make slam final+semis and win two masters, but tank the rest of the season, for 3920 points).

Last year 8th was Roddick with 3665. That consisted of:

1000 Miami win
720 IW final
360 Cinci semis
360 AO QFs
250 Brisbane win
180 Paris QFs
180 Wimbly R4
180 Basel sfs
150 San Jose final

+285 from others


So far Raonic got a tidy 300 from Memphis (atp500 finals/semis give too many points imo), 250 from San Jose, but only 205 at the Aus and 90 at IW. Very impressive, but WTF means more: he needs slam qfs, multiple masters sfs for 360 a time, and probably at least one slam semi or masters final.

At the moment, that's probably well out of his reach.


I don't think clay necessarily matters much in this discussion. He wasn't top30 end of last year, so if he does badly at clay masters, the results won't count in his best 18 - he could possibly rack up a lot of hard court 250 wins with that serve.

It's only 600 points for a Masters final so the IW final should read 600 and not 720. But you do make some good points nonetheless.

The key for Roddick though was the IW final and Miami win - and even still he only made the lineup at London right in the last few weeks. You conveyed the point well that one need not have a good clay court season to finish in the top 8, but the case with Roddick was not the same as it is for Raonic now. Remember that just prior to the start of the clay season, Roddick was 1st in the 'Race' year-to-date rankings.

guichard
03-18-2011, 09:19 PM
Does need a lot of points, even qfs at 3 slams and 6 masters only gives you 2160 points, and might not be enough to get you to WTF. It requires real consistency across the season, plus some big results at masters/slams. The only real exception is if you do a Murray (ie make slam final+semis and win two masters, but tank the rest of the season, for 3920 points).

Last year 8th was Roddick with 3665. That consisted of:

1000 Miami win
720 IW final
360 Cinci semis
360 AO QFs
250 Brisbane win
180 Paris QFs
180 Wimbly R4
180 Basel sfs
150 San Jose final

+285 from others


So far Raonic got a tidy 300 from Memphis (atp500 finals/semis give too many points imo), 250 from San Jose, but only 205 at the Aus and 90 at IW. Very impressive, but WTF means more: he needs slam qfs, multiple masters sfs for 360 a time, and probably at least one slam semi or masters final.

At the moment, that's probably well out of his reach.


I don't think clay necessarily matters much in this discussion. He wasn't top30 end of last year, so if he does badly at clay masters, the results won't count in his best 18 - he could possibly rack up a lot of hard court 250 wins with that serve.

Right now the clay master are mandatory for him because he has direct acceptance so they must count. Top 30 thing is for the ATP 500

Lurking
03-18-2011, 09:21 PM
If he's a future Slam finalist he'll go pretty close. He probably won't do much outdoors at this point in his career, so he'll rely on a big performance in tha tank MS in Paris and that's more than possible if it's playing as fast as it was last year.

guichard
03-18-2011, 09:25 PM
It's only 600 points for a Masters final so the IW final should read 600 and not 720. But you do make some good points nonetheless.

The key for Roddick though was the IW final and Miami win - and even still he only made the lineup at London right in the last few weeks. You conveyed the point well that one need not have a good clay court season to finish in the top 8, but the case with Roddick was not the same as it is for Raonic now. Remember that just prior to the start of the clay season, Roddick was 1st in the 'Race' year-to-date rankings.
True but Roddick was pretty much qualified long before it becomes official

JamieBlake
03-18-2011, 09:29 PM
Not at all

FiBeR
03-18-2011, 09:49 PM
I say yes

navy75
03-18-2011, 10:00 PM
I honestly think he beats Harrison 8 or 9 of 10 times right now. Harrison is younger and getting better, but for now, I think that is how it is.

Snowwy I generally agree with you, but I think that you're perhaps letting your nationalistic instincts get the better of you here. I think that you have to realize that this is a bad matchup for Raonic for the reasons that sokk mentions (i.e. Harrison has tremendous returning instincts). Harrison got the better of him in juniors and the better of him this week for a reason. That's not to say that Raonic will or won't have a better career (many times a lesser ranked player has one or two particular higher ranked players that they can always beat), but I think to say that Harrison's win over Raonic this week was a 1 out of 10 chance win is ignoring both their history in juniors and the nuances of this particular matchup.

Filo V.
03-18-2011, 10:02 PM
No, let's stop going overboard with the bandwagoning. The current top 5 in the race will almost definitely make it, Rafa will make it and he's not there currently, and Roddick will make it if he has the type of season he usually does. That leaves one spot, which likely will go to one of Del Potro, Wawrinka or Berdych. It takes not just a great result here and there, but consistently high level results to make the WTF and Raonic I doubt is quite on that level yet. He's only 20, give it some time.

philosophicalarf
03-18-2011, 11:13 PM
Almagro is close to the Top10 and he only has good results on clay.


Almagro is close in ranking spots, but not in points. From 12th to 8th needs +1240 points, almost 50% more than he has now.

mark73
03-19-2011, 12:47 AM
Top twenty is very realistic. He has almost no points to defend and his ranking will be 34 this monday. His ranking will only go up with the vast majority of the year left. Top 8 highly unlikely, these guys gather HUGE amounts of points.

156mphserve
03-19-2011, 12:51 AM
WTF?!?! Uhm.. NO. And this is coming from a fan. He will maybe reach the Top 20 at the most, but it's a long way up from top 20 to the top 10. And I'm not even sure he can be in the top 20. He will ALWAYS lose his matches against better returners, like Harrison, Ferrer and the top 4. He needs to improve his backhand, RoS, movement etc before he can even think about entering the top 10, let alone the top 8.

same fan who said he'd be top 70 at most by the end of the year before he won San Jose?:wavey:

At that rate he'll be #1 in your Mind by Wimdledon:lol:

fast_clay
03-19-2011, 04:21 AM
play in wtf...? are you kidding...! he's gonna win it!! yeah baby...

FormerRafaFan
03-19-2011, 11:07 AM
same fan who said he'd be top 70 at most by the end of the year before he won San Jose?:wavey:

At that rate he'll be #1 in your Mind by Wimdledon:lol:

Fine, I'll admit I was wrong about that.. I believe he has the game to win a lot of matches in the upcoming tournaments, but I still don't think he's good enough to win against the best returners. He will always lose the matches against them:shrug:

Like I said.. I think top 8 is unrealistic, top 20 is probably a better prediction.

Nadull_tard
03-19-2011, 11:25 AM
Maybe in doubles. Raonic will be a bye for everyone on clay, I doubt he knows how to play on grass.
He can break Top 20-30 this year, nothing further.