Raonic's baseline game > Karlovic's, Isner's; = Roddick's [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Raonic's baseline game > Karlovic's, Isner's; = Roddick's

Roger the Dodger
02-19-2011, 07:44 PM
>Karlovic?
=Karlovic?
<Karlovic?
>Isner?
=Isner?
<Isner?

I don't like the tag of all-serve mug on Milos. Somehow doesn't suit him at all! Discuss.

ossie
02-19-2011, 07:46 PM
miles better than isner and karlovic combined but still needs time to mature.

Clay Death
02-19-2011, 07:49 PM
i just took a look at him for the very first time. his greatest asset is his testicular fortitude. he is just not scared of anyone and he hangs tough in important moments.

his serve is amazing and it is going to get better once he learns to move it well around the box.

his movement is not good enough for clay and its really not good enough for hard courts either. top guns will eat his lunch and i am talking about guys like fed, nadal, djokovic, and murray.

and finally the ground game is weak. backhand is excellent but the forehand is quite inconsistent.

solution: there are no solutions to the lack of optimal movement. you can keep working and maybe learn to anticipate better but with great movement, either you have it or you dont.

he can develop a little more consistency but he will have to log in long hours on clay and also play several small clay events a year.

he is has the potential to be top 20.

duong
02-19-2011, 07:51 PM
>Karlovic for sure

comparing to Isner I would also say superior after watching several matches, esp against Ferrer and Fish.

Anyway, he has a strange baseline game comparing to modern game : often goes for the winner, and for sure it makes people surprised because it's not today's game, even Söderling doesn't go as much for the winner, usually mostly keeps controlling the rally, Isner the same, only sometimes big forehand but not as often :shrug:

That surely reminds me of the 90s and not today's game.

Well I don't expect anything too high from him as some do : maximum top-10 but not top-5 (by the way even Isner may reach top-10 one day, it's possible imo, even Massu did it :lol: ).

But I'm surprised when I read people say "he has no baseline game" : I saw him against Ferrer and that's quite a big test !

He also broke Fish twice in that final set with some good rallies :shrug:

Roger the Dodger
02-19-2011, 08:17 PM
i just took a look at him for the very first time. his greatest asset is his testicular fortitude. he is just not scared of anyone and he hangs tough in important moments.

Agreed, General CD! He's got a Nadal-like head in a tall body. Rare in a 20 year old. He had 4 tight 3 set matches and won them all after winning the previous tournament. Tons of steel up there + booming serve!

his movement is not good enough for clay and its really not good enough for hard courts either. top guns will eat his lunch and i am talking about guys like fed, nadal, djokovic, and murray.

Agreed. The top players might expose his weak baseline game but considering other booming servers, I think his game is more well-grounded. Clearly, he's not got so far only on merit of his serves alone.

and finally the ground game is weak. backhand is excellent but the forehand is quite inconsistent.
Inconsistent but very powerful when it works.

solution: there are no solutions to the lack of optimal movement. you can keep working and maybe learn to anticipate better but with great movement, either you have it or you dont.

he can develop a little more consistency but he will have to log in long hours on clay and also play several small clay events a year.

he is has the potential to be top 20.

Well, he's going to Acapulco next week. :p

>Karlovic for sure

comparing to Isner I would also say superior after watching several matches, esp against Ferrer and Fish.

I think he's >Karlovic and Isner. He broke Fish and Kendrick without tie-breaks. That says plenty about his baseline game.

Anyway, he has a strange baseline game comparing to modern game : often goes for the winner, and for sure it makes people surprised because it's not today's game, even Söderling doesn't go as much for the winner, usually mostly keeps controlling the rally, Isner the same, only sometimes big forehand but not as often :shrug:

That surely reminds me of the 90s and not today's game.

That's mostly adrenaline, I'm sure.

Well I don't expect anything too high from him as some do : maximum top-10 but not top-5 (by the way even Isner may reach top-10 one day, it's possible imo, even Massu did it :lol: ).

But I'm surprised when I read people say "he has no baseline game" : I saw him against Ferrer and that's quite a big test !

He also broke Fish twice in that final set with some good rallies :shrug:

He's beaten 4 top ten opponents now: Fish, Tabasco, Fiasco, and Youzhny. :yeah:

GlennMirnyi
02-19-2011, 08:24 PM
His forehand is huge. Anyone not moonballing every second point is going to make mistakes from time to time.

His backhand sucks. It bounces short 80% of the time. His slice also floats a lot.

At least he's not afraid of going forward. His movement is a bit deficient but he'll surely improve with age. He's just starting his career.

fast_clay
02-19-2011, 08:24 PM
i think it's worth noting his tactical awareness and willingness to extend a rally and use the pressure he has built against his opponent instead of opting to ball bash...

that game to break fish at 2-2 in the third... raonic up 0-30 returning, very aware, fish gets raonic on the run... raonic plugs back slice forehand after slice forehand when he could well have loaded up his forehand drive - but no, in the heat of battle just knows that fish is not gonna do too much with deep non pace junk he's feeding... waits... and a much better opportunity to load up on a forehand presents itself...

0-40

for me, just more tactically aware from the back i think (than isner n karlovic)... and doesnt at all mind junking it to allow his opponent to feel the pressure he's applied inside an extended rally instead of being rash himself...

Nathaliia
02-19-2011, 08:29 PM
Well, Galo Blanco is his coach. Rally-wise he is in good hands and he will develop.

I don't really like the Karlovic or Isner comparisons; Karlovic is a joke, he already is in defense if the rally lasts for more than 4 shots. Isner has developed here though but tends to push.

Milos rather reminds me of Roddick from before his pushing era (from several years ago - yes). Also similar mental attitude and can really hit a juicy winner. Plus has to work on bh.

GlennMirnyi
02-19-2011, 08:29 PM
i think it's worth noting his tactical awareness and willingness to extend a rally and use the pressure he has built against his opponent instead of opting to ball bash...

that game to break fish at 2-2 in the third... raonic up 0-30 returning, very aware, fish gets raonic on the run... raonic plugs back slice forehand after slice forehand when he could well have loaded up his forehand drive - but no, in the heat of battle just knows that fish is not gonna do too much with deep non pace junk he's feeding... waits... and a much better opportunity to load up on a forehand presents itself...

0-40

for me, just more tactically aware from the back i think (than isner n karlovic)... and doesnt at all mind junking it to allow his opponent to feel the pressure he's applied inside an extended rally instead of being rash himself...

I think the point to get to match point was like this as well. He kept rallying when he had plenty of chances to ballbash and finally Fish send a backhand to the net.

Certinfy
02-19-2011, 08:35 PM
Better than both.

Kat_YYZ
02-19-2011, 08:36 PM
He's better than Karlovic for sure. Ivo's old... not going to make any huge improvements in the time he has left. Isner is not too old, but lacks passion and isn't strong enough mentally; he has time to improve, but I don't think he will make any major strides. I'd say Milos is already better, but also has the potential to grow a lot.

DrJules
02-19-2011, 08:37 PM
Well, Galo Blanco is his coach. Rally-wise he is in good hands and he will develop.

I don't really like the Karlovic or Isner comparisons; Karlovic is a joke, he already is in defense if the rally lasts for more than 4 shots. Isner has developed here though but tends to push.

Milos rather reminds me of Roddick from before his pushing era (from several years ago - yes). Also similar mental attitude and can really hit a juicy winner. Plus has to work on bh.

Cetainly the best comparison of Raonic although the Roddick serve and forehand had more penetration and were more consistent in his top 3 period.

Roger the Dodger
02-19-2011, 08:39 PM
His forehand is huge. Anyone not moonballing every second point is going to make mistakes from time to time.

His backhand sucks. It bounces short 80% of the time. His slice also floats a lot.

At least he's not afraid of going forward. His movement is a bit deficient but he'll surely improve with age. He's just starting his career.

I think comparisons with Soda would be more appropriate for his baseline game. He likes to attack, take the risks and often pays for it. Still goes on. Yes, that forehand can generate Delpo like power, though he tends to lean a bit more to do so.

I think this kid can give Nadal trouble! :lol:

Nathaliia
02-19-2011, 08:42 PM
Cetainly the best comparison of Raonic although the Roddick serve and forehand had more penetration and were more consistent in his top 3 period.
Yeah Milos isn't top 3 yet; I thought of Roddick who showed up at the US tournaments once and stormed through them beating Rios and some other good players out of nowhere ;)

Swim4life227
02-19-2011, 08:45 PM
Isner not strong enough mentally? If anything that's what makes him a top 20-30 player. He always comes through in those tight tiebreak moments. That's also why he won the Mahut match. Otherwise, his ground game sucks all around except for when he goes for a forehand. He just pushes the ball around and a lot of times he floats a slice long or can't even get to the ball. Not to mention he has awful volleys.

Milos has a great baseline game. It's never going to be a GOAT baseline game but it really doesn't have to be with his serve and powerful groundstrokes. I love Andy Roddick, but once the ball is in ball all he does is push and slice the ball around. Milos at least has a well rounded game and really no true liability or holes in his game that can really hurt him.

fast_clay
02-19-2011, 08:57 PM
I think this kid can give Nadal trouble! :lol:

i think he already did just quietly... late last year

Clay Death
02-19-2011, 09:11 PM
you gotta love his calmness and composure.

sampras is his idol but pete`e game is outdated for the modern game. reckless rushing into the net wont work today.

he has a top 20 future at best which is more than good enough.

comparisons to dr ivo and dr isner are ridiculous at best. they are both 6 foot 10 which makes them near 7 footers. tennis is much harder for a 7 footer than it is for somebody 6 foot 5.

still dr ivo has been able to win titles on every surface out there. and dr isner is top 20 material even at 6 foot 10.

looking at it that way, i dont think milos is as good as dr isner and dr ivo. movement becomes a massive challenge for guys that are nearly 7 feet tall.

milos is obviously going to get better if he can log in long hours on clay but as it stands now, he cant beat dr ivo or dr isner at their best.

emotion
02-19-2011, 09:15 PM
slightly better or equal to isner
better than karlovic

rubbERR
02-19-2011, 09:17 PM
i would take raonic serve over good baseline play, its extremely boring to watch but i would take that kind of style.

Blue Heart24
02-19-2011, 09:34 PM
Already better than both,and he's only 20.

FlameOn
02-19-2011, 09:36 PM
I saw the second set TB of San Jose final (it took me a while to not want to slit my wrists at the very thought :devil::lol:) and Milos has a very good baseline game. He had a couple of service winners but the rest of it was all about his baseline game.

Sonja1989
02-19-2011, 09:37 PM
Raonic's baseline game is... I say average.
Better than Karlovic (I don't say Isner, because I like him. :) ) But it isn't top 30 level.

Roger the Dodger
02-21-2011, 08:35 PM
In a year, his baseline game should surpass Roddick. Then, they'll cease to call him an all-serve mug for good.

Mike473
02-21-2011, 08:52 PM
i just took a look at him for the very first time. his greatest asset is his testicular fortitude. he is just not scared of anyone and he hangs tough in important moments.

his serve is amazing and it is going to get better once he learns to move it well around the box.

his movement is not good enough for clay and its really not good enough for hard courts either. top guns will eat his lunch and i am talking about guys like fed, nadal, djokovic, and murray.

and finally the ground game is weak. backhand is excellent but the forehand is quite inconsistent.

solution: there are no solutions to the lack of optimal movement. you can keep working and maybe learn to anticipate better but with great movement, either you have it or you dont.

he can develop a little more consistency but he will have to log in long hours on clay and also play several small clay events a year.

he is has the potential to be top 20.

I don't think Raonic will worry about the clay too much. I am sure he will practice on it ect.. But, his game is suited for hard courts and grass. I imagine his focus will be on those surfaces, which give him the best chance at breaking thru to a major win.

General Suburbia
02-21-2011, 08:52 PM
I think comparisons with Soda would be more appropriate for his baseline game. He likes to attack, take the risks and often pays for it. Still goes on. Yes, that forehand can generate Delpo like power, though he tends to lean a bit more to do so.

I think this kid can give Nadal trouble! :lol:
Eh, I like the comparisons with 2003-04 Roddick better. Soderling and Del Potro use their huge forehands to control rallies, whereas Milos (what little I've seen from him) often goes straight for the winner.

Sapeod
02-21-2011, 09:34 PM
His forehand is huge and his backhand is solid. He has a great ground game and is definitely not an all serve player. He has brilliant volleys as well. He's an all round great player.

duong
02-21-2011, 11:28 PM
In a year, his baseline game should surpass Roddick. Then, they'll cease to call him an all-serve mug for good.

that's exaggerated imo : Roddick was ill yesterday but his baselinegame is much better than Raonic's : he showed it in the semifinal where he played the best I had seen for one year

Certinfy
02-21-2011, 11:29 PM
By far better than Karlovic's and Isner's.

But equal to Roddick's? Not even close, Roddick's is far ahead in that department.

Bubble99
02-21-2011, 11:33 PM
People complain about Roddick being a pusher and his lack of aggression, but he has more weapons from the ground then Raonic, he just doesn't use it often enough. There's deffinently been an improvement from the ground for Roddick since the Wawrinka loss.

Topspindoctor
02-22-2011, 12:07 AM
Raonic's baseline game > Karlovic's, Isner's; = Roddick's

Which means it's still awful. Once clay season starts, I can't wait to see him struggle.

heya
02-22-2011, 01:27 AM
Raonic will not have intestinal irritability, unlike Roddick.

mark73
02-22-2011, 01:28 AM
In some respects raonic moves very well. He quickly sidesteps to the left to hit a forehand and his foreward movement to hit a volley at the net is very good. This movement fits his game. Certainly running side to side is something he needs to improve on.