Who is best on clay? Soderling or Del Potro? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Who is best on clay? Soderling or Del Potro?

FormerRafaFan
02-13-2011, 02:16 PM
The conversation can continue here so you don't take over the match thread completely..

Chartreuse
02-13-2011, 02:20 PM
Soderling, of course.

Topspindoctor
02-13-2011, 02:21 PM
Soderling: beat greatest clay courter of all time in Paris. Beat Federer last year. Made 2 consecutive RG finals with nightmare draw in '09.

Mug Potro: BS'd his way to single RG semi with easy draw. Got outlasted by an old man Federer playing worst clay tennis of his career.

Soderking >>>>>>>>> JMDP on clay, end of story. Not even close.

Matt01
02-13-2011, 02:24 PM
Despite what I said in the other thread :lol: it's Söderling of course.

2 RG finals > 1 RG semi

Roamed
02-13-2011, 02:26 PM
Soderling. He is older though, Delpo will have more chances to prove himself in the future.

Elbarto
02-13-2011, 02:34 PM
the answer is not easy because Del Potro didn't play French Open last year,

I think Delpo's footwork is better than Soderling on clay, he was semi-finalist in RG2009, solid performance against Federer, he is mentally stronger than Soderling on key points,

we must wait 2012 to know the answer to this question when Del Potro will recover his full level of game

Priam
02-13-2011, 02:35 PM
Soderling at RG of course. But if you look at their results outside RG, I think Delpo has the edge.

Robin (1 Clay title in Bastad and Barca finalist, best result at MC-Rome-Madrid is R3) 41-18 W-L since '08
Delpo (2 Clay titles -- Stuttgart and Kitzbuhel, best results are QFs-Rome and SF-Madrid) 27-7 W-L since '07

Elbarto
02-13-2011, 02:43 PM
don't forget that Soderling is not really a clay player, first and foremost he is an indoor player, an ace machine with flat powerfull forehand, that's why Soderling doesn't have much more titles on clay

a true clay player will use more topspin on his shots

Chiakifug
02-13-2011, 02:47 PM
don't forget that Soderling is not really a clay player, first and foremost he is an indoor player, an ace machine with flat powerfull forehand, that's why Soderling doesn't have much more titles on clay

a true clay player will use more topspin on his shots

And Del Potro is?

Priam
02-13-2011, 02:47 PM
Delpo's game suits the surface better, and he could possibly make an FO final or two like Sod.

Elbarto
02-13-2011, 02:53 PM
And Del Potro is?

Del Potro learned tennis on clay in Argentina ( country where clay courts are the dominant surface )

Sapeod
02-13-2011, 02:53 PM
Soderling by far. He is more powerful than Del Potro and that helps on clay, especially in Soderling's case.
2 RG finals >>>>> 1 RG semi.

There is no comparison.

Chiakifug
02-13-2011, 02:55 PM
Del Potro learned tennis on clay in Argentina ( country where clay courts are the dominant surface )

Ace machine with a powerful forehand; you couldve been describing Del Potro just as easily.

cristalmeister
02-13-2011, 02:58 PM
Im biased in this question, but i just cant see how anyone could think JMDP is better than Robin on clay. Ofc Del Potro can win a few matches vs him/make better results intermittently on clay, just not in the long run.

Action Jackson
02-13-2011, 02:58 PM
Del Potro learned tennis on clay in Argentina ( country where clay courts are the dominant surface )

Söderling spent the summers playing on clay in Sweden, it's not like he has not seen a clay court before when he was learning the game.

How can someone say del Potro is better when he has hardly played on clay as a senior against a guy who has made 2 RG finals and some good results on clay before that.

del Potro may become better, but at this moment it's a dumb poll.

Certinfy
02-13-2011, 02:59 PM
Soderling of course, we haven't even seen Del Potro on the clay after RG 09 due to injury so it's a stupid comparison anyway.

Sonja1989
02-13-2011, 03:00 PM
I don't know. Soderling has better results on clay but Del Potro is younger. Would be great if they play in Roland Garros this year.
I think Del Potro must improve on clay, but I think will be better than Sod.

I think in this moment Robin is better.

Benget
02-13-2011, 03:02 PM
Del Potro learned tennis on clay in Argentina ( country where clay courts are the dominant surface )

you know every swedish player grew up on clay as well. every club in sweden has indoor courts and clay courts. so during the summer season clay is played always. see all the past clay champions like borg, wilander, norman, gustafsson, pernfors etc etc. even edberg reached french open final. sweden always choose clay surface on davis cup. finals against usa 1984 or some year close to that we even put clay indoors to beat them in the winter season :D:D

so you know its no coincidence söderling can play clay

Jomp1
02-13-2011, 03:32 PM
Del Potro learned tennis on clay in Argentina ( country where clay courts are the dominant surface )

Because Sweden doesn't have a rich history on clay :haha:

Elbarto
02-13-2011, 03:53 PM
How can someone say del Potro is better when he has hardly played on clay as a senior against a guy who has made 2 RG finals and some good results on clay before that.


all I say is it's impossible to give a correct and fair answer to the poll because Del Potro didn't play the clay season and the french open in 2010 and he is again too young ( ( not enough elements to judge him definitely on clay, all I know is that he has already good abilities on clay and already 2 titles on clay + semi in french open )

his only full season on clay is 2009 when he was a top 10 player and he made a great french open, reached semi and lost against Federer in 5 sets who was winner of this french open edition,

we must wait next season ( 2012 ) when Del Potro will recover his full level, it's useless now to try to compare him with Soderling, the judgement will not be fair

HarryMan
02-13-2011, 04:03 PM
Soderling. He has made the RG final two years in a row now and beaten Federer last year. He caused one of biggest upsets in all of tennis in 09 by beating Nadal at RG. There is now way we can call Del Potro a more accomplished clay court player than Soderling.

BEBE91
02-13-2011, 04:05 PM
Nadal

alfonsojose
02-13-2011, 04:06 PM
Robin :retard:

Nadull_tard
02-13-2011, 04:10 PM
Obviously a two time Grand Slam runner-up on clay must be regarded as the better one, but we must remember about the age differential.
I think it's pointless to compare those two players before they both retire. Soderling will be naturally one step ahead of Pony.

tennisgolfguru
02-14-2011, 12:50 AM
all I say is it's impossible to give a correct and fair answer to the poll because Del Potro didn't play the clay season and the french open in 2010 and he is again too young ( ( not enough elements to judge him definitely on clay, all I know is that he has already good abilities on clay and already 2 titles on clay + semi in french open )

his only full season on clay is 2009 when he was a top 10 player and he made a great french open, reached semi and lost against Federer in 5 sets who was winner of this french open edition,

we must wait next season ( 2012 ) when Del Potro will recover his full level, it's useless now to try to compare him with Soderling, the judgement will not be fair

This - Del Potro was looking very good and getting some very good results on clay in 2009 then he missed 2010 - I think the jury is still out on whether Pony will really make it back - I am not sure he will ever be as strong as he was before the injury - if he does come back, then I lean toward Pony being the better player on clay based largely on his movement which is better than Robin's. But I am not convinced Pony will be back to where he was - I hope so but I am not sure.

Sunset of Age
02-14-2011, 12:55 AM
It will remain to be seen whether DelPotro will ever be able to get back to his level of 2008-2009. Right now, the outlooks aren't too promising if I daresay so, but of course, I hope he does. Questionable though... that's one hell of a true injury he suffered, and with his BIG frame, one might expect him to remain very injury prone. :sad:

In other words: Sod by a mile the better clay courter right now (the only player to beat both Federer and Nadal in a GS, as well as being the only player to beat Nadal at RG, as well as making the finals there twice) - and it isn't even close.

straitup
02-14-2011, 01:03 AM
Soderling of course, we haven't even seen Del Potro on the clay after RG 09 due to injury so it's a stupid comparison anyway.

+1

Del Potro seems like he could be really tough on clay...but we don't know much since he really hasn't played a clay court tournament since his US Open title.

DrJules
02-14-2011, 12:59 PM
As the 2 times RG finalist and the only player to beat Nadal at RG it has to be Soderling. By the time they have retired it may be different.

dombrfc
02-14-2011, 01:00 PM
Robin as of now.

duong
02-14-2011, 02:11 PM
How can someone say del Potro is better when he has hardly played on clay as a senior against a guy who has made 2 RG finals and some good results on clay before that.

del Potro may become better, but at this moment it's a dumb poll.

yes so far noone can say that since Del Potro has hardly played on clay, very few tournaments, since his affirmation at the top-level in summer 2008

The first tournament he won that summer was on clay in Stuttgart but then he played on hardcourts, and then on clay he only played spring 2009 clay season, and that's all, nothing else ...

He only started showing his potential in RG 2009 where imo he played great, really outplaying Federer at the beginning of their match.

And he was not 21 years old yet during this RG 2009 tournament ! Imo, he can improve significantly on this surface.

Then how can one say that Söderling is for sure better as well ?

Imo Del Potro has the better potential as his shots are safer and he has a great mental solidity and fighting ability, for instance I saw a good ability to retrieve shots with his backhand on clay from him.

Blackbriar
02-14-2011, 02:15 PM
JMDP is HC player. He is not made for clay. Soderling is the better on clay.

duong
02-14-2011, 02:24 PM
JMDP is HC player. He is not made for clay. Soderling is the better on clay.

I'm surprised that you didn't speak about how Del Potro beat Gasquet in Stuttgart 2008, first tournament of new Del Potro's emergence : it was a good opportunity to speak about Gasquet :lol:

duong
02-14-2011, 02:26 PM
Would be great if they play in Roland Garros this year.


unfortunately it will be tough for Del Potro to be fit enough to play well on clay again this year : lack of fitness and stamina after one year without playing, I guess.

I believe more about 2012.

Orka_n
02-14-2011, 04:51 PM
As the 2 times RG finalist and the only player to beat Nadal at RG it has to be Soderling. By the time they have retired it may be different.Agree on both points.

king_roger
02-14-2011, 06:57 PM
It will remain to be seen whether DelPotro will ever be able to get back to his level of 2008-2009. Right now, the outlooks aren't too promising if I daresay so, but of course, I hope he does. Questionable though... that's one hell of a true injury he suffered, and with his BIG frame, one might expect him to remain very injury prone. :sad:

In other words: Sod by a mile the better clay courter right now (the only player to beat both Federer and Nadal in a GS, as well as being the only player to beat Nadal at RG, as well as making the finals there twice) - and it isn't even close.

Del Potro beat Fed and Nadal back to back at US Open 2009

GlennMirnyi
02-14-2011, 08:38 PM
Del Potro learned tennis on clay in Argentina ( country where clay courts are the dominant surface )

So? Is fat Dave a clay courter?

nole_no1
02-14-2011, 09:48 PM
Don't know what to say
I can easily say Soderling because he played 2 consecutive finals at the RG beating Nadal and Federer while Del Potro made only one SF lost to Federer but he played well
BUT i think we never saw the best of Delpo on claycourt
His rising started in the 2nd part of the 2008 season on hardcourt and started to play better in 2009 AFTER the RG winning the US Open
At the RG he could have done more damage if he'd have more matches played on claycourt while he was on his day
Don't know if Delpo will ever refind his shape again (i really hope this will happen) but if he will i'd really want to see a match against Soderling at the French Open and i think my money will be on the argentinian's killing forehand strokes

Elbarto
02-14-2011, 10:53 PM
JMDP is HC player. He is not made for clay. Soderling is the better on clay.

JMPD started to learn tennis on clay like all argentine players, he has good results on this surface ( davis cup, Stuttgart, Kitzbühel, RG2009 ), good footwork on clay,

he says he prefers hard courts surfaces but that doesn't mean he is not made for clay,

his only weak surface is grass ( for the moment, he can improve himself )

FlameOn
02-14-2011, 11:06 PM
How can Del Potro be better on clay than 2x RG finalist Soderling? :p

Elbarto
02-14-2011, 11:16 PM
How can Del Potro be better on clay than 2x RG finalist Soderling? :p

it's impossible to make a comparison between these 2 players, it's a stupid thread/poll for many reasons ( Delpo not playing 2010 season, too young player )

we don't have enough elements to make a fair comparison between these 2 guys,

all we know is that Soderling has made great performances ( twice finalist, he managed to beat Nadal and Federer at RG ), and that Del Potro has great abilities on clay, that's all,

the true test is a match between Del Potro and Soderling on clay, both healthy and with full level of game

jmf07
02-15-2011, 01:10 AM
Lame Poll

.-Federers_Mate-.
02-15-2011, 01:38 AM
Federers mate posted this in the last delpo thread but it is more suited here.

I think Soderling is better on Clay, BUT Delpo is a bigger threat to Nadal on Clay. If that makes any sense. Soderling is a changed man this year though. The new coach has done wonders for his confidence and this is the best I've seen him strike the ball since RG2009.

THE THREAD ISN'T ASKING WHO HAS BETTER ACHIEVEMENTS ON CLAY. It is asking who is better on Clay. It's closer than a lot of you might suggest

Matt01
02-15-2011, 02:41 AM
I think Soderling is better on Clay, BUT Delpo is a bigger threat to Nadal on Clay. If that makes any sense.


It doesn't really make sense since Söderling is the only player to beat Nadal at RG.

tennishero
02-15-2011, 03:21 AM
lame poll, soderling has had better results but delpo has been injured last year and the year before could have reached the final. he's also much younger.

delpo hasnt really had a chance to make an impact on clay yet besides RG SF. I will say that at their peak I think delpo is better.

Action Jackson
02-15-2011, 08:26 AM
9 of del Potro's family logged onto MTF to vote.

Blackbriar
02-15-2011, 08:36 AM
I'm surprised that you didn't speak about how Del Potro beat Gasquet in Stuttgart 2008, first tournament of new Del Potro's emergence : it was a good opportunity to speak about Gasquet :lol:

:p Beating Gasquet is not exactly a titanic performance, even on clay.

Elbarto
02-15-2011, 09:01 AM
I don't agree with you, it's easy to make fun of Gasquet ( choker, injuries ) but this guy has good skills on clay, probably the best frenchman on clay ( with Monfils ),

last year it was great to see Gasquet schooling Murray at french open for 2 sets ( unfortunately Gasquet was out of gas the rest of the match )

duong
02-15-2011, 09:37 AM
:p Beating Gasquet is not exactly a titanic performance, even on clay.

I thought he was a constant reference for you :lol:

Anyway, yes Gasquet is not exactly a reference on clay :lol: but that Stuttgart final was not a bad match, and the beginning of Del Potro's ascension in next months, winning several tournaments in Northern American after that.

!VamosRafa!
02-15-2011, 10:39 AM
Soderling:rolleyes:

duong
02-15-2011, 10:52 AM
Soderling:rolleyes:

I've observed that the biggest opponents to the idea that Del Potro could be that good on clay in the future are the Nadaltards : they just mentally refuse that potentially frightening idea.

Ther are so much opposed to that that they even support Söderling here, whereas they constantly write evrywhere that Söd's victory over Nadal was just a fluke against an injured player, and that a healthy Nadal would crush that Söderling stupid ballbasher anywhere, esp on clay :lol:

Topspindoctor
02-15-2011, 11:56 AM
I've observed that the biggest opponents to the idea that Del Potro could be that good on clay in the future are the Nadaltards : they just mentally refuse that potentially frightening idea.



... And I've noticed that most of the JMDP bandwagoners are delusional. He did nothing on clay that warrants the hype. No clay masters, no RG finals - just a single semi where he lost to below-par Olderer who outlasted him physically. Nadal is a much better clay courter than Federer and in his prime right now - what makes you think JMDP will threaten him on clay this year? Especially considering his long lay off and the fact that clay is not his best surface.

hotdog
02-15-2011, 12:13 PM
Statistically speaking Del Potro is better...but he hasn't reached a RG final yet:(

Blackbriar
02-15-2011, 12:16 PM
I thought he was a constant reference for you :lol:

Anyway, yes Gasquet is not exactly a reference on clay :lol: but that Stuttgart final was not a bad match, and the beginning of Del Potro's ascension in next months, winning several tournaments in Northern American after that.

He is my reference, he made me interested into tennis with Pierce, then Mauresmo, and if he drops too low in the ranking, i will certainly lose any interest. But i'm also aware he is an average good player and not a champion, and certainly no match for JMDP.

FiBeR
02-15-2011, 01:34 PM
Soderling achieved much more on clay

Soderling: beat greatest clay courter of all time in Paris. Beat Federer last year. Made 2 consecutive RG finals with nightmare draw in '09.

Mug Potro: BS'd his way to single RG semi with easy draw. Got outlasted by an old man Federer playing worst clay tennis of his career.

Soderking >>>>>>>>> JMDP on clay, end of story. Not even close.

:scratch: 5 sets vs Federer in SF, and this is the same Federer that schooled Soderling in straights in the final, plus you claim he beat Roger as a highlight when he was a year older than the year he beat del potro but somehow he is "old man" only when he beats del potro :lol:

Priam
02-15-2011, 02:45 PM
Definitely, Robin.

But Give Del Potro a chance to prove himself on the dirt once he's fully healthy and confident again.

Elbarto
02-15-2011, 03:43 PM
... And I've noticed that most of the JMDP bandwagoners are delusional. He did nothing on clay that warrants the hype. No clay masters, no RG finals - just a single semi where he lost to below-par Olderer who outlasted him physically. Nadal is a much better clay courter than Federer and in his prime right now -


del Potro is very young on the ATP tour, RG2009 was in fact his first attempt as a top 10 player, in 2008 he was a rookie, in 2010 he was injured, so honestly like Priam said you must give him a chance to prove he can be a clay warrior, I am sure that in 2012 he can be a real threat on clay :p



hat makes you think JMDP will threaten him on clay this year? Especially considering his long lay off and the fact that clay is not his best surface.

he will not be a threat this year on clay because he will not have the time to recover his full level of game, 2012 will be the right time

GlennMirnyi
02-15-2011, 04:05 PM
Pony isn't a claycourter. Soderling isn't either.

Nadull_tard
02-15-2011, 04:07 PM
Soderling isn't either.

And makes RG final two times in a row, being probably the biggest danger for Nadal. That says something about the best era of all time.

GlennMirnyi
02-15-2011, 04:10 PM
And makes RG final two times in a row, being probably the biggest danger for Nadal. That says something about the best era of all time.

Yep.

A slow indoor player like Soderling makes consecutive RG finals. :lol:

MalwareDie
02-15-2011, 04:20 PM
Soderling is better on clay. This probably won't change in the future.

And no, Del Potro is not a bigger threat to Nadal on clay. Bashing the ball to the middle of the court will not do anything against Nadal on clay.

I've observed that the biggest opponents to the idea that Del Potro could be that good on clay in the future are the Nadaltards : they just mentally refuse that potentially frightening idea.

No, you are just being a delusional bandwagoner. And I can't believe that I just agreed with Topspindoctor.

GlennMirnyi
02-15-2011, 04:23 PM
I wouldn't count on that, honestly.

The way clay has lost depth over the last decade, Pony could become a real threat there.

Elbarto
02-15-2011, 04:31 PM
And no, Del Potro is not a bigger threat to Nadal on clay. Bashing the ball to the middle of the court will not do anything against Nadal.


Del Potro and Soderling have 3 interesting "features" on clay :


- their height allows them to get a powerful first serve ( free points ), and make it easier for them to return high topspin balls

- they use flat forehand which is a good way to avoid long exchange against Nadal

- they move well on clay despite their height


Del Potro has also a strong and excellent double-handed backhand, this can be a good point against a lefty like Nadal

Topspindoctor
02-15-2011, 05:30 PM
Del Potro and Soderling have 3 interesting "features" on clay :


- their height allows them to get a powerful first serve ( free points ), and make it easier for them to return high topspin balls

- they use flat forehand which is a good way to avoid long exchange against Nadal

- they move well on clay despite their height


Del Potro has also a strong and excellent double-handed backhand, this can be a good point against a lefty like Nadal

:spit: :haha:

Mjau!
02-15-2011, 05:34 PM
Helloo! :rolleyes: It's obviously Robin! Very unnecessary question.

Elbarto
02-15-2011, 05:40 PM
:spit: :haha:

without a good footwork on clay you can not have good results on clay, ask to Murray if you don't believe me :p

duong
02-15-2011, 05:46 PM
Del Potro has also a strong and excellent double-handed backhand, this can be a good point against a lefty like Nadal

esp he uses his backhand well defensively, much better than Söderling for that

Elbarto
02-15-2011, 05:51 PM
Helloo! :rolleyes: It's obviously Robin! Very unnecessary question.

the hidden question inside this poll is : can Del Potro be as successful on clay as Soderling ?

2011 -> probably not, he has not enough time to recover his full level of game

2012 -> there is a good chance if we consider his semi in RG2009 and his abilities on clay ( 2 titles on this surface )

GlennMirnyi
02-15-2011, 05:56 PM
The non-hidden question is "who's best on clay".

And that is the question you must focus your sparse mental faculties on.

Elbarto
02-15-2011, 06:29 PM
The non-hidden question is "who's best on clay".

And that is the question you must focus your sparse mental faculties on.

I repeat : it's impossible to try a fair comparison between these 2 guys for obvious reasons, one guy was injured for a long time and didn't have the opportunity to increase his results on clay , the other is on fire since 2 full years of tennis,


the facts are :

- Soderling made very good results on clay in 2009 and 2010

- Del Potro made a breakthrough since mid-2008 and has started really to play good tennis on clay with roland garros 2009 but he was brutally stopped with a wrist injury for a full year of tennis,

with these facts it's unfair to say "X is better than Y", it makes no sense

so I prefer the hidden question "can Del Potro be as successful on clay as Soderling ?" which sounds more clever