Most talented Frenchman [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Most talented Frenchman

oomph
01-19-2011, 02:51 PM
Rank the following French players from best to worst (and not their current form, I mean if they'd fulfill their potential):

Tsonga, Monfils, Gasquet, Simon, Llodra.

Yes, this is partly inspired by me seeing Simon go wild. :)

abraxas21
01-19-2011, 03:02 PM
pretty tough

simon can do just about everything from the back of the court. his strokes aren't pretty and his core pushing style ain't attracctive either but sure is effective. his wide variety of shots from the baseline is also impressive and does show talent. however, he's clueless at the net, be it in terms of volleys or when it comes to reach drop shots with his backhand (why use a two-handed BH to reach a drop-shot, Gilles?)

Tsonga is definitely a talented man. Good serve, good volleys and fairly decent aggressive groundstrokes. However, he lacks the variety that someone like Simon has from the backcourt.

Gasquet is easily one of the most talented guys out there. Problems are: bad stamina & bad concentration for the most part.

Monfils can do just about everything but there's something that doesn't click. I don't see him as so talented as many say, though. His groundstrokes are good but not impressive and he's not very capable to switch from defensive to attacking tennis with consistency when recquired. might be just a mental problem (which for sure exists) but imo he's also just not that naturally good in the first place.

Llodra -easily the better volleyer out there but his groundies are average. In a bygone era, Llodra would have been one of the top 3 frenchmen in the circuit -perhaps the best one. however, with the slower conditions, he's not meant to thrive much here.

all in all -from the most talented to the least:

1- Gasquet
2- Tsonga
3- Simon
4- Monfils
5- Llodra

GSMnadal
01-19-2011, 03:03 PM
Monfils-Tsonga-Simon-Gasquet-Llodra

Topspindoctor
01-19-2011, 03:06 PM
Monfils, Tsonga, Llodra, Gasquet, Simon

Blackbriar
01-19-2011, 03:13 PM
By talent, you mean "Best Hand"? Gasquet is on-par with Federer (dixit Roger). nuff said.

Gasquet
.
.
.
.
.
Llodra
Monfils
Simon
Tsonga

Start da Game
01-19-2011, 03:16 PM
Start da Game the great had already decided the deal in this regard way back when people had almost forgotten simon........

1. simon

2. no need to care because the rest of them are all absolute jokes........

allpro
01-19-2011, 03:17 PM
french athletes sure are tough.

oranges
01-19-2011, 03:27 PM
Gasquet
Tsonga
Monfils/Llodra
Simon

Hard to fit Mika in somewhere, sublime touch and generally feel for net play, but in today's game it's use is limited for what it used to be.

Start da Game the great

Gotta love the self-glorification. You know what they say, if no one else will do it, you have to do it yourself :haha:

Nole Rules
01-19-2011, 03:28 PM
Simon.

MsTree
01-19-2011, 03:31 PM
Simon Monfils Tsonga Gasquet Llodra

DanaKz
01-19-2011, 03:38 PM
Monfils
Tsonga
Gasquet
Llodra
Simon

ServeAlready81
01-19-2011, 03:39 PM
1.Gasquet
2.Tsonga
3.Simon
4.Monfils
5.Llodra

Sham Kay
01-19-2011, 04:17 PM
Hm, talent. It's sometimes confused and mixed up with hype, but..

1) Gasquet
2) Monfils
3) Tsonga
4) Simon
5) Llodra

Hm, guess there's hype for a reason.

Silver.
01-19-2011, 04:19 PM
Simon. ;)

Mlad
01-19-2011, 05:52 PM
Gasquet
Tsonga
Simon

ApproachShot
01-19-2011, 06:42 PM
Gasquet
Monfils
Tsonga
Simon
Llodra

Start da Game
01-19-2011, 06:46 PM
gasquet is a mug, he is not that talented........don't be fooled just by his backhand that too which is occasionally brilliant........he does not have a potent weapon at all in his armour........i don't get how these many posters think he is that talented........

luie
01-19-2011, 06:54 PM
Tsonga-gasquet......Monfils is a clown & simug is a pusher.

San Rosso
01-19-2011, 06:56 PM
Gasquet (Guy is on par with Federer talent wise, mentally not so much though)
.
.
.
.
Tsonga (Had/has so much potential)
Llodra (Joy to watch, has a great 'feel' but is not good enough from the baseline)
Simon (pusher)
Monfils (wouldn't even be Top 50 without his outstanding speed/athletism)

Start da Game
01-19-2011, 07:05 PM
Tsonga-gasquet......Monfils is a clown & simug is a pusher.

wrong luie........when you can come up with good stuff, why do you choose to throw in posts like these?

simon is a pusher for sure, but his game is not confined to pushing........he is a deceptive hitter who can hurt you by throwing you off your comfort zone and stun you with huge groundies.......the defense is top class.......he is also a reasonably good finisher at the net........a well rounded talent.......

the only real defects is his game is his second serve and slice.......

Certinfy
01-19-2011, 07:06 PM
Tsonga or Monfils.

Roger the Dodger
01-19-2011, 07:09 PM
Gasquet
-
-
Tsonga/Santoro
-
-Clownfils
-Llodra/Benny
-Simon
-

Roger the Dodger
01-19-2011, 07:12 PM
wrong luie........when you can come up with good stuff, why do you choose to throw in posts like these?

simon is a pusher for sure, but his game is not confined to pushing........he is a deceptive hitter who can hurt you by throwing you off your comfort zone and stun you with huge groundies.......the defense is top class.......he is also a reasonably good finisher at the net........a well rounded talent.......

the only real defects is his game is his second serve and slice.......

Simon is a glorified Devvarman and one of the most boring players to watch on tour. The most un-Frenchlike Frenchie.

Silver.
01-19-2011, 07:24 PM
Simon is a glorified Devvarman and one of the most boring players to watch on tour. The most un-Frenchlike Frenchie.

:o Lets just get this clear. Simon is not a boring player to watch. How can you say that after todays game? :rolleyes:

Blackbriar
01-19-2011, 07:48 PM
It's all Gasquet has, it's his natural talent. This is the only domain he is superior to his pals: mental toughness is with Simon and Tsonga, athleticism with Monfils, power with Tsonga and Monfils, stamina with Simon.

Roger the Dodger
01-19-2011, 07:57 PM
:o Lets just get this clear. Simon is not a boring player to watch. How can you say that after todays game? :rolleyes:

Imagine a scenario where pushers dominate tennis. Each pushing each other out. A pushy top ten who win solely because they have great stamina, run down balls and outlast the other player? A contest not of shotmaking, but of push-power. How boring.

Silver.
01-19-2011, 08:02 PM
Yes but tennis isn't dominated by one style of play. If it was then ball-bashers would counteract ball-bashers etc etc it's a silly argument. Tennis is about variety, and one of Simons best qualities is his outstanding defense, but he still hits amazing ground strokes out of nowhere and changes the pace of the rallys dramatically with winners. When he's on form he is very exciting to watch, it is suspenseful to watch long rallys and suddenly a burst of energy, he has great stamina and speed. I think it's just disrespectful to say he is "boring"

Dougie
01-19-2011, 08:10 PM
Imagine a scenario where pushers dominate tennis. Each pushing each other out. A pushy top ten who win solely because they have great stamina, run down balls and outlast the other player? A contest not of shotmaking, but of push-power. How boring.

Tennis is played on many levels, shotmaking is only one of them. Simon is a very tactical player, who´s biggest weapons are on the mental side. Watching how different players handle/ can´t handle Simon´s game is far from boring. Saying he is just a pusher shows a limited understanding of the tactical side of the game.

Roger the Dodger
01-19-2011, 08:21 PM
Yes but tennis isn't dominated by one style of play. If it was then ball-bashers would counteract ball-bashers etc etc it's a silly argument. Tennis is about variety, and one of Simons best qualities is his outstanding defense, but he still hits amazing ground strokes out of nowhere and changes the pace of the rallys dramatically with winners. When he's on form he is very exciting to watch, it is suspenseful to watch long rallys and suddenly a burst of energy, he has great stamina and speed. I think it's just disrespectful to say he is "boring"

Tennis is played on many levels, shotmaking is only one of them. Simon is a very tactical player, who´s biggest weapons are on the mental side. Watching how different players handle/ can´t handle Simon´s game is far from boring. Saying he is just a pusher shows a limited understanding of the tactical side of the game.

I love watching long rallies and am all for the variety in the game, but how about more variety in a single player as well? Even Murray is a pusher but at least more creative in his shot selection, etc. How often does Simon approach the net on his own? How often does he dare to risk a shot - like the crazy backhand slice DTL Nalbandian made yesterday against Hewitt? Simon is strong mentally, no doubt but most counterpunchers and pushers are. That's their forte. Hewitt, Nadal, anyone?

I am far from disliking counterpunchers but please don't be one-dimensional. Nadal at least tries to improve himself all the time and I respect that about him.

abraxas21
01-19-2011, 08:22 PM
Tennis is played on many levels, shotmaking is only one of them. Simon is a very tactical player, who´s biggest weapons are on the mental side. Watching how different players handle/ can´t handle Simon´s game is far from boring. Saying he is just a pusher shows a limited understanding of the tactical side of the game.

i totally agree.

simon is far from being a fave of mine but watching the guy play shows what an amazing strategist he is. i'd dare say he's on par with andy murray in that department. simon likes to push a lot but he always does it with a gameplan and with a sense of direction that most players just don't have. besides, he knows when to push the trigger and when to change the pace of the ball as well.

all in all, i find simon a terrible player to watch when it comes to see spectacular tennis but he's indeed an awesome player to watch when it comes to see smart and strategic tennis.

Haelfix
01-19-2011, 08:24 PM
Simon is usually what most people would call an overachiever. He really does lack talent relative to the other guys on the list (who all stereotypically outtalent him by a long shot.. even the Mahut's of the world are roughly on par)

However that definition of talent is a little bit superflous b/c it doesn't take into account the mental and tactical elements of tennis. Simon is an expert at getting people to play poorly, or to get them to give him shots that he can make (for instance passing shot looks).

He's relatively speedy, anticipates well and know's how to play the percentages. He also can redirect balls effortlessly and can vary paces with the best of them.

Still, he doesn't have the traditional talent of having a big serve, or a big forehand or backhand, or much touch. He can't create much for himself so to speak and will never be known as a great shotmaker.

For my money, Tsonga is far and away the most talented player in France (perhaps indeed the world), but he's sort of the opposite in that he has zero tactical savvy.

luie
01-19-2011, 08:35 PM
wrong luie........when you can come up with good stuff, why do you choose to throw in posts like these?

simon is a pusher for sure, but his game is not confined to pushing........he is a deceptive hitter who can hurt you by throwing you off your comfort zone and stun you with huge groundies.......the defense is top class.......he is also a reasonably good finisher at the net........a well rounded talent.......

the only real defects is his game is his second serve and slice.......
Simon is a pusher but I respect him for this match.
In 2008 was a low time in feds career so I dismissed the simon losses as an anomaly ,however this match proves simon is an OK counter puncher,,that upsets feds rhythm & makes him go for" more" leading to errors as I felt feds game was OK in sets 3 & 4.
He is a fast little bugger. However I just think that Tsonga when "on" is better, similiar to young gasquet.
Today's gasquet is a joke.
Gasquet made a slam SF lost to fed.
Tsonga made a Slam final/SF.
Simons best result is a slam QF in his career (loss to nadull)
Simon made a good start if he can build on this he could be a good player.He did hit some good forehands & seems to understand the game quite well.

Roger the Dodger
01-19-2011, 08:45 PM
He is a fast little bugger.

Spot on description of Simon. :yeah:

Arkulari
01-19-2011, 09:12 PM
Simon is the only french player with mental strength, the rest might be more talented than him but their heads aren't screwed the right way

abraxas21
01-19-2011, 09:13 PM
Simon is the only french player with mental strength, the rest might be more talented than him but their heads aren't screwed the right way

tsonga is also mentally strong

Arkulari
01-19-2011, 09:13 PM
tsonga is also mentally strong

come on :haha: :haha:
he's a great player to watch when on, but he goes away in matches

abraxas21
01-19-2011, 09:18 PM
well, he's is 5-0 in fifth sets, has a 5-1 record in ATP finals and a 60.2% in tieabreaks won during a career plagued with injuries.

doesnt look like a mental clown to me.

thrust
01-19-2011, 09:37 PM
Simon. ;)

I agree! When you combine the mental with the physical, then Simon is the most talented. Physically: Monfils, Tsonga, and perhaps Gasquet have the edge. Mentally,however, Simon is definitely the superior French player.

DorianGray7
01-19-2011, 09:58 PM
Gasquet, Simon, Llodra, Monfils, Tsonga, Mathieu, Chardy

San Rosso
01-19-2011, 10:08 PM
I don't understand how some of you can put Monfils in the Top 2 Most Talented French Players, they guy has great athletic skills but that's about it, the guy is the most clueless defensive player I've ever seen. Nowhere near as talented as Gasquet, Tsonga and maybe even Llodra.

luie
01-19-2011, 10:12 PM
I agree! When you combine the mental with the physical, then Simon is the most talented. Physically: Monfils, Tsonga, and perhaps Gasquet have the edge. Mentally,however, Simon is definitely the superior French player.
I have to agree as a combination of physicality & mentality,, simon is superior french player.
Well why not he has 8 MM titles, made a slam QF once in his career,past the 4RD of a slam 2 times & has 0 wins against top players & slams but but he beat fed 2 times is BO3 & then took him to 5 sets a great accomplishment.
Well better than a mug/clown mentally inferior player like Tsonga that has just 5 titles 1 Masters,Made the QF of slam 2 times,SF 1 & Final once, beat nadull/novak/murray & slam level in an injury plagued career,came back against fed from 5-1 down in a deciding set.
However I get your point simon is clearly the superior french player.;)

asianboy
01-19-2011, 10:19 PM
Watching him in Sydney and 2nd rd match with Fed, I think he will have a very promising career. But He must have to improve the way he serve. I am now a fan of Gilles Simon.

Arkulari
01-19-2011, 10:26 PM
well, he's is 5-0 in fifth sets, has a 5-1 record in ATP finals and a 60.2% in tieabreaks won during a career plagued with injuries.

doesnt look like a mental clown to me.

He starts spraying errors and getting frustrated when things aren't going his way, I don't say he's a mental midget like Gasquet, but he isn't anywhere near Simon's level in the mental aspect ;)

simplet
01-19-2011, 10:32 PM
He starts spraying errors and getting frustrated when things aren't going his way, I don't say he's a mental midget like Gasquet, but he isn't anywhere near Simon's level in the mental aspect ;)

Of course he hits errors when his form is down, have you seen his game? Simon on a bad day gets blown off the court, all the while having whole conversations with himself. They are both good mentally, but they both have their bad days.

luie
01-19-2011, 10:36 PM
Of course he hits errors when his form is down, have you seen his game? Simon on a bad day gets blown off the court, all the while having whole conversations with himself. They are both good mentally, but they both have their bad days.
Seems like you didn't get the memo---mental strenght is based upon your performance against daddy federer not your overall achievement or records against other top players & current #1.

Arkulari
01-19-2011, 11:27 PM
I'm talking about mental strength, in terms of raw talent I think Tsonga is the best french player out there, Gasquet lacks a FH and his serve isn't as good.

yuri27
01-19-2011, 11:58 PM
Gilles Simon.
But they all suck anyway.

yuri27
01-20-2011, 12:01 AM
Watching him in Sydney and 2nd rd match with Fed, I think he will have a very promising career. But He must have to improve the way he serve. I am now a fan of Gilles Simon.


He is Nadal's,Murray's and Djoker's bitch so no.
He probably won't even win a Master Serie.

amaze
01-20-2011, 12:25 AM
Llodra (gap) Gasquet (big gap) Tsonga, Monfils (endless gap) Simon

Basically Simon is the most primitive thing I've ever seen in tennis. If his talent has a value it must have a negative sign ahead of it.:o

GlennMirnyi
01-20-2011, 12:39 AM
Tsonga is the most talented, for sure. He has huge baseline shots, he's quite adroit at the net and has a great serve.

Llodra has amazing touch but his baseline strokes are a bit bizarre and in today's awfully slow courts, it's a big vulnerability.

Gasquet has talent, it's there, it's almost palpable. Nevertheless, his forehand is atrocious. A huge flaw in his game.

Simon is a major mug pusher. Pathetic game.

Mugfils is the worst of them all. He's just a retriever. He goes for one shot in 100. Pathetic.

LaFuria
01-20-2011, 04:41 AM
Gasquet has the most skill of the French players. Tsonga and Simon have the most mental strength.

Tsonga has the most complete game, the only thing holding him back is injuries.

LLodra and Gasquet have great skill but with serious holes in their game they never have been able to compensate for.

Simon is terrible but he has a lot of heart and is crafty. If only he had half the talent of any of the other top French players.

Mugfils is one of the most athletic players on the tour but is also probably the dumbest. He doesn't know how to play tennis, he should be in the circus not on the tour.

GlennMirnyi
01-20-2011, 04:43 AM
Gasquet has the most skill of the French players. Tsonga and Simon have the most mental strength.

Tsonga has the most complete game, the only thing holding him back is injuries.

LLodra and Gasquet have great skill but with serious holes in their game they never have been able to compensate for.

Simon is terrible but he has a lot of heart and is crafty. If only he had some weapons.

Mugfils is one of the most athletic players on the tour but is also probably the dumbest. He doesn't know how to play tennis, he should be in the circus not on the tour.

Wow, I found my lost Argie brother.

Jazzy
01-20-2011, 07:59 AM
Gasquet - it's a shame he lacks in the mental department
Tsonga - probably the most all round solid player of the French
Simon - mentally tough and counter-punches
Llodra - great feel for the ball
Monfils - very athletic although I never get what his strategy is other than to pull some strange/remarkable (depending on how you see them) shots

Ouragan
01-20-2011, 09:57 AM
Oh, you guys are forgetting Chardy!



I jest.

Voo de Mar
01-20-2011, 11:12 AM
Basically Simon is the most primitive thing I've ever seen in tennis.

:haha:

Very funny but I completely disagree, IMO he's got amazing grace of covering the court and technically well prepared all basic strokes.

yuri27
01-20-2011, 12:35 PM
Gasquet - it's a shame he lacks in the mental department
Tsonga - probably the most all round solid player of the French
Simon - mentally tough and counter-punches
Llodra - great feel for the ball
Monfils - very athletic although I never get what his strategy is other than to pull some strange/remarkable (depending on how you see them) shots

He lacks even more in the fitness department.

feliciano
01-20-2011, 12:44 PM
gasquet
simon

Monteque
01-20-2011, 12:49 PM
Monfils is

OnyxRose
01-20-2011, 02:34 PM
Start da Game the great had already decided the deal in this regard way back when people had almost forgotten simon........

1. simon

2. no need to care because the rest of them are all absolute jokes........


I...actually agree with you. The hell?

DorianGray7
01-20-2011, 02:59 PM
What about Chardy, Manthieu and Benneteau?

Benneteau beat Federer and Manthieu is considered one of the French musketeers.

Puschkin
01-20-2011, 03:24 PM
H/H

Gasquet-Simon: 4-0
Gasquet-Monfils: 3-3
Gasquet- Tsonga 4-3
Gasquet-Llodra: 3-0

Enough said.:p

yuri27
01-20-2011, 04:12 PM
H/H

Gasquet-Simon: 4-0
Gasquet-Monfils: 3-3
Gasquet- Tsonga 4-3
Gasquet-Llodra: 3-0

Enough said.:p

Tsonga>>>>Djokovic then. :worship:

KeiNishikoriCro
01-20-2011, 04:17 PM
monfils

....
....
....
...
....
....
....
....
....
simon
gasquet

abraxas21
01-20-2011, 05:29 PM
btw what happened to Paul Henri Mathieu?

is he injured?

lalaland
01-20-2011, 06:17 PM
Tsonga>>>>Djokovic then. :worship:

and continues the H2H logic....
Simon >> Federer :eek:
:p

PHM is injured. He has some nagging pain that just doesn't seem to go away.
As for the talent question, everyone of them has element that is better than the others, is not possible to compare.

rocketassist
01-20-2011, 06:46 PM
Tsonga is the answer.

Cloudygirl
01-20-2011, 08:01 PM
and continues the H2H logic....
Simon >> Federer :eek:
:p


But this is true :p:p

If you combined Richard's pure talent with the mental strength and heart of Gilles then you'd have a brilliant french player. Would still have a slightly dodgy forehand though ;)

Blackbriar
01-20-2011, 08:04 PM
H/H

Gasquet-Simon: 4-0
Gasquet-Monfils: 3-3
Gasquet- Tsonga 4-3
Gasquet-Llodra: 3-0

Enough said.:p

Richard owns french tennis, no doubt :p

tumbak
01-20-2011, 08:16 PM
Tsonga and then Simon.

Nidhogg
01-20-2011, 09:48 PM
This discussion will never get old as what we always end up discussing are our different definitions of talent. :lol:

Being talented is merely about having an apt for a certain thing. How quickly you get the hang of it. Since tennis is a game of many different aspects, different abilities comes in handy. You can be a great strategist and construct points by anticipating and thinking ahead. You can be a great ballstriker with excellent hand-to-eye coordination. You can be a great mover with perfect balance, etc.

Then it's all about putting your talent to use by building a platform. The more sound your technique or footwork etc is, the easier it will be to utilize your talent.

To me, talent can be likened to intelligence, and intelligence is about making order out of chaos.

Obviously you'll find yourself in some reoccuring situations and positions on a tennis court more often than others. In the familar ones you know what to do by experience and routine. It's in the unorthodox situations, where you can't draw on experience or properly lined out fundamentals for the particular situation, that your pure talent really comes to the fore. How quickly you're then able to asses all parameters and make order out of chaos, and right yourself perfectly for what you need to do to counter the situation.

Myself I'm a sucker for the entertainers on court who get creative and look to try out new things. Generally I like pro-active players who force the issue, and if they on top of that also are creative, I'm sold.

Out of these five I'd say Gasquet has mad talent, but he has one particular part in his platform which is very poor, and that's his ... flappy forehand technique. In today's game that will always hold him back greatly. Llodra is also really talented, but the conditions of today are not ideal for him to show it. If he had been around in the 80's or 90's his crazy volleying skills would have paid more dividends.

Tsonga has the power which you need in today's game to go with his talent in his serve and that slapshot of a forehand of his. He's creative, but you need to go for the right options in your creativity. Jo often goes for the wrong ones.

Monfils and Simon are first and foremost reactive players who love to counterpunch. The main differences between them is that Gilles has better anticipation and a way better mentality than Gael, who's anything but clutch. Monfils can crank it, but he's not very fond of going out of his comfort zone, and his natural game is to retrieve and show off with his spectacular speed and athleticism.

Getta
01-20-2011, 09:54 PM
Gasquet.

simplet
01-20-2011, 09:55 PM
For some reasom I really like that this thread is all over the place. I like that about french tennis.

FormerRafaFan
01-20-2011, 09:55 PM
Simon
Monfils
Tsonga
Gasquet in that order.

Mannarino of the younger generation of guys.

simplet
01-20-2011, 09:57 PM
Simon
Monfils
Tsonga
Gasquet in that order.

Mannarino of the younger generation of guys.

It's really funny how all Nadal fans love Simon. Is it the h2h against Federer or what?

Getta
01-20-2011, 10:14 PM
It's really funny how all Nadal fans love Simon. Is it the h2h against Federer or what?

i'm a Nadal fan and i love Gasquet.

can seem a bit daunting, but it does leave you gasping for more.

FormerRafaFan
01-20-2011, 10:36 PM
i'm a Nadal fan and i love Gasquet.

can seem a bit daunting, but it does leave you gasping for more.

I love Gasquet too. I'm a fan or Richie.. Simon is still the better player of the two though.

yuri27
01-20-2011, 10:51 PM
Tsonga has the power which you need in today's game to go with his talent in his serve and that slapshot of a forehand of his. He's creative, but you need to go for the right options in your creativity. Jo often goes for the wrong ones.

Tsonga's main problem is his movement.
When you compare the way he moves on the court to the way the top 5 players move on the court(especially Fed,Nadal,Murray and the Djoker), the difference is abysmal.