PAW Board for the 2011 Season [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

PAW Board for the 2011 Season

sdtoot
12-15-2010, 09:21 PM
PAW Board 2011

We need to urgently clarify the members of the PAW Board for the 2011 season. The current PAW Board members are as follows:-

Current members of the board from 2009:

Caio_Brasil - Retired at end of 2010 season RESIGNED
-Evita- - Not active in PAW during 2010? RESIGNED
Frooty_Bazooty - Still active in PAW Will remain on the Board for 2011
greatkingrat - Not active in PAW for the second half of 2010
hallso - Retired at end of 2010 season but Will remain on the Board and update the PAW rankings for 2011
maldini - Still active in PAW Will remain on the Board for 2011
ntorcida - Not active in PAW since early 2010
robuś - Still active in PAW Will remain on the Board for 2011
sdtoot - Still active in PAW Will remain on the Board for 2011

I will send a pm all the players above to ask whether they still wish to remain on the PAW Board for 2011. In addition to those listed above, I propose that the following managers/players should be included in the PAW Board for 2011:-

Aenea - Will join the Board in 2011
jrm
TankingTheSet - Will retire from the game in 2011
Wojtek

If any other PAW Managers/Players wish to join the PAW Board, then please send a pm to sdtoot and you will be considered for inclusion on the new PAW Board for 2011.

Thanks
Shaun :wavey:

jrm
12-16-2010, 09:19 AM
What does it mean being PAW Board memeber?

sdtoot
12-16-2010, 09:50 AM
What does it mean being PAW Board memeber?

This is explained in more detail in the original PAW Board thread here (http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=114806).

Wojtek
12-17-2010, 09:06 PM
Sorry but i can't join PAW board i just don't have enough time. I can help as manager few weeks during the year.
If hallso quits as ranking manager and noone takes his place i can do ranks. I don't promise it will be updated every week on Monday but it will work :p

hallso
12-18-2010, 11:33 AM
I will stay with the rankings at least next season
I hope someone can do WC's (not so necessary, but still needed I think)

sdtoot
12-18-2010, 12:42 PM
I will stay with the rankings at least next season
I hope someone can do WC's (not so necessary, but still needed I think)

Thanks Greg. It is very kind of you to continue to update the PAW Rankings next year despite now retiring from the game. :worship:

We need to ensure that the key PAW administration roles are covered for 2011. These are:-

PAW Management Thread - mmarto193
PAW Rankings - hallso
PAW Monthly Commitments - sdtoot
PAW Wildcards - Aenea
PAW Rules - robuś
PAW Titles History - hallso
PAW History of No.1 Players - Frooty_Bazooty

I think it is best that the above administration roles are shared as much as possible to ensure that the game is not too dependant upon one or two players (who may have to suddenly leave the forum due to illness or unexpected circumstances).

In particular, we urgently need a volunteer to cover the PAW Management thread as soon as possible, with the start of the season only two weeks away.

Any volunteers?

dinkulpus
12-18-2010, 01:57 PM
I can take PAW Managers thread :wavey:
I'm doing suicide tennis managers so I think I can do it ;)

Aenea
12-18-2010, 02:24 PM
I can keep track of the WCs but maybe it would be better if we started this thread through the paw board account so other members have access to the account as well. But I take the responsibility to watch over the WCs.

sdtoot
12-18-2010, 02:29 PM
I can take PAW Managers thread :wavey:
I'm doing suicide tennis managers so I think I can do it ;)

Hey thanks mmarto193. :worship: I don't see any problem with you looking after the PAW Managers thread for 2011. Please start the thread at your earliest convenience - just follow the similar format to the 2010 Managers thread. It is good to welcome new helpers into the game. :)

sdtoot
12-18-2010, 02:32 PM
I can keep track of the WCs but maybe it would be better if we started this thread through the paw board account so other members have access to the account as well. But I take the responsibility to watch over the WCs.

Hi Sylvie, that would be great if you could update the WC thread through 2011. Yes please use the PAW Board account to update post #1 of the thread for 2011. You know the password. ;) Thanks :)

dinkulpus
12-18-2010, 02:55 PM
Hey thanks mmarto193. :worship: I don't see any problem with you looking after the PAW Managers thread for 2011. Please start the thread at your earliest convenience - just follow the similar format to the 2010 Managers thread. It is good to welcome new helpers into the game. :)

Оk, I will start the thread in few minutes :wavey:

dinkulpus
12-18-2010, 03:16 PM
The topic is ready, sdtoot just scan it please :wavey:

hallso
12-18-2010, 11:36 PM
I have winners and finalist for 2010 updated, I just forgot to add it :p

robuś
12-19-2010, 12:26 PM
I think the only way to resolve this issue is to allow all players (not just those in contention) the option to send in a PAW pick (on the final day only) via pm to the manager. If a pick is sent via pm then the player must post on the PAW thread to say that his/her final pick has been sent by pm. e.g. PAW13: Sent via pm to Manager. The manager can then post the picks he/she has received via pm once the final has started or when they are next online.

Sending picks via pm works fine in TT so I don't see it can't work in PAW. In the situation where the PAW manager is in contention for the title coming into the final day, then maybe a PAW board member can be nominated to receive the final days PAW picks via pm.

According to above, I can incorporate the "final pick rule" into The Official PAW Rules, as the new point 5.1, and change the previous 5.1 to 5.2 and then 5.2 to 5.3

5.1 "Final pick rule"

The last pick (on the final day only) can be, but it is not a must, send via pm to the manager of the tournament. If a pick is sent via pm then the player is obliged to post on the PAW thread that his/her final pick has been sent by pm. e.g. PAW13: Sent via pm to Manager. The manager can then post the picks he/she has received via pm once the final has started or when they are next online.

I understand that if a player sends his/her pick via pm, but doesn't post this information on the forum, then his/her pick won't be valid, no matter what.

sdtoot
12-19-2010, 03:56 PM
According to above, I can incorporate the "final pick rule" into The Official PAW Rules, as the new point 5.1, and change the previous 5.1 to 5.2 and then 5.2 to 5.3


I understand that if a player sends his/her pick via pm, but doesn't post this information on the forum, then his/her pick won't be valid, no matter what.

In hindsight, I think it is probably better to remove the requirement for a player to post on the thread that he/she has sent their final pick by pm. What do others think?

Aenea
12-19-2010, 08:10 PM
The validity of a player's pick should not be dependent on the manager posting that pick at the time the match has started. So the pick should be valid from the moment it has been sent to the manager no matter if the latter has posted it on the thread or not. If the player reconsiders her/his pick s/he should send a new PM to the manager with the new pick, otherwise the original pick remains valid. It would be good, not obligatory, but recommended that the player posts on the thread that s/he has send her/his final pick to the manager so that other contenders to the title are aware of that. The manager should do her/his best to be available at the time the final starts so s/he can post picks received via PM in the thread on time i.e. shortly after the final starts.

sdtoot
12-20-2010, 01:23 AM
I agree with Aenea's comments above. Maybe the rule should state that it is recommended (but not mandatory) that the player posts on the thread to state that he/she has sent his/her final pick by pm to the manager.

robuś
12-26-2010, 09:40 PM
Well, ok, so the rule is:
5.1 "Final pick rule"

The last pick (on the final day only) can be, but it is not a must, send via pm to the manager of the tournament. It would be good, not obligatory, but recommended that the player posts on the paw thread informing about his/her move. The manager can then post the picks he/she has received via pm once the final has started or when they are next online.

hallso
07-20-2011, 05:15 PM
I think after this season we should change this rule, which I currently use to count the rankings:

The ranking points of tournaments in classes IS600, IS800 and IS1000/ISG800 will be determined by the # of players commited to the tournament at Midnight on the last Saturday prior to the tournament. If there are at least 40 commitments, the 64 players chart should be used. If there are 39 or less commitments, the 32 players version will be used.
(of course now it works at ATP250 & 500)

in my opinion points distribution should be always depending on the draw size, not paw players quantity
if there is draw for 64 players (16 paw picks), 64 paw players will get points
32 players draw - 13 picks - points for 32 paw players
no matter ATP250 or ATP500 (of course more points for each position in the second one)

what do you think?

Aenea
11-06-2011, 11:24 AM
As there is only 1 tournament left before this season ends I suggest we discuss things over for the next season. If you want to do any changes to the rules, points distribution, new members to the PAW Board (even though I see no point of having this Board). We need to attract more people getting involved into organizing PAW. We got kingroger managing the commitments threads, I will update the WC thread and will try managing from time to time.
What about the others? Will you keep carrying on your duties? I mean updating Ranking and Race threads? We need someone updating managers thread and it would be good if that person is more involved in PAW.

hallso
11-06-2011, 12:28 PM
I will stay with rankings

it would be tough to execute and I'm pretty sure noone will back this but maybe something like:
"player can't play in PAW tournament if they haven't manage one in previous 2 years"
of course it could take effect since 2014
I know this is controversial but I don't see other way to keep this game alive
Shaun is leaving and he was one of the most crucial managers last years. I don't want to know what happens if Tina (12 tournaments this year!) follows his way.
Sylvie managed few more than she wanted to, because there was emergency.
I hoped to avoid managing this year and I finish with 2 ATP1000.
We had just 15 different managers this year but over 100 players played at least 10 tournaments - they have to be more active here :shrug:

Aenea
11-06-2011, 12:59 PM
:sadface: I wouldn't want forcing people into doing something they don't want to. I don't want to act by force. Still I don't understand why we have all those difficulties with finding managers. OK let's say it is a bit difficult and time-consuming managing a Masters and a GS. But the rest? In a 250 or 500 there are only like 30-35 players and only 13 picks per player. It takes about 40min to copy picks, enter the winners, sort your sheets and post the update. Then what is the problem? Why so few people want to be managers? :confused: It is easy and you only need to come to the thread 2 times per day. It is getting even easier now as most players became very cooperative and post their picks in the required formatting.

P.S. BTW I forgot it the first time around but it is good we can keep you, Greg for the Rankins and Race threads :)

maldini
11-06-2011, 01:36 PM
Yeah, I don't think force is the correct way. When I managed tournaments some years ago, I thought the same way but now, as I don't have the time anymore, I'm seeing it differently. We better think about some sort of reward system, e.g. like 5 extra points for the rankings or additional wild cards (though probably those managing aren't those in need because they're are more reliable). Not the best ideas, but it probably needs to go in a direction like that.
But it's not only PAW, it's also TT that doesn't have as many managers as it used to have....

sdtoot
11-07-2011, 12:18 AM
There is no easy solution to helping attract more managers into PAW - I do agree that trying to force players to manage is probably not the best solution.

Like here on MTF, TennisForum has had the same problems attracting PAW managers. A few years ago, I came very close to proposing an incentive scheme for PAW Managers on TennisForum. The idea was to give PAW Managers a 'Manager Wild Card' for every tournament which they managed throughout the season. The managers would then be able to use one of their Manager Wild Card's to be able to play two tournaments in any week of their own choice, thereby giving them the opportunity to improve their ranking points total. Of course only the best score from the two tournaments would be counted towards the rankings on that particular week.

Fortunately, the PAW Manager situation has improved significantly over the past two years on TennisForum, which meant that this idea was never put forward. I do realise that it will need some additional administration duties, but maybe it is something to consider here on MTF?

Aenea
11-07-2011, 10:19 PM
Reactions from players now in Paris thread and before in other tournaments make me walk away from the game :sadface: From the next season I will only update the WC thread. It is useless putting so much effort into this game when people who have never managed a single tournament criticise you.

jrm
11-08-2011, 12:24 AM
Players have become spoilt, that's all!

Most players only visit commitment thread here, maybe ranking threads and here ends the story.

Personally i don't see the reason to grant WCs; commitment threads are usually up long before the month ends, there is no reason to commit 5 minutes to midnight!

jrm
11-08-2011, 12:28 AM
And about possibly changing some rules for 2012, i said to Shaun, if people don't vote, people don't care so any rule changes should be worked out among PAW Board members and managers, whatever makes their job easier, after all, they are the one with work here!

I think we should start naming any potencial rules changes and then discuss ...

jrm
11-08-2011, 12:34 AM
and if there aren't any free managers, commited players to that tournament would not be allowed to participate in different event played that week!

Cava
11-08-2011, 01:31 AM
I would really like to manage more PAW events next year. The problem for me is the weekend is very hard to update. Specifically getting the points and qualifiers placed.
Is it possible to have 2 managers for an event? In my case, I would manage a lot more if someone was able to update the points.

Just a thought.

coolfish1103
11-08-2011, 01:51 AM
Managing a PAW tournament takes about 1 hour a day but the previous preparations can take up to 5 hours if one does not understand how Evita's worksheet works. 5 hours during the weekend can be lengthy. If they don't know a worksheet existed, it could take even longer. In addition, trying to fix all those spelling mistakes, def, beats, to over takes time a while as well.

Some tournaments' timezone are disasters to manage because one has to wait for all the tournaments to end before they can finish updating the next round. If they were to update prior w/possible picks the permutations can go n times more. Not placing qualifiers on time will get people mad and complain as well...

I can update the manager's thread if no one can do it.

Forcing people into managing is not a good idea.

I can see a potential problem not running a tournament or letting people transfer due to insufficient manager. A manager could be running Basel and playing in Valencia because they don't want to play their own management, but ended up not being able to play at all cause they committed to Valencia. To solve it would give the manager the rights to freely transfer should a tournament not start.

I am all for canceling tournaments w/o a manager because it's not right to have the same person to run tournaments every week.

Aenea
11-09-2011, 01:27 PM
I would really like to manage more PAW events next year. The problem for me is the weekend is very hard to update. Specifically getting the points and qualifiers placed.
Is it possible to have 2 managers for an event? In my case, I would manage a lot more if someone was able to update the points.

Just a thought.

How will this be organized? Only 1 manager can create the thread and if the 2nd one is to update it or at least a part of it this will need 2 people to share the same account. If I decide to help you how will I update the SP or Picks history which you have created? I will have to enter through your account, no?! Or I will have to post my own post let's say the one containing SP between your "ATP players list" and "Standings" posts. But this will mean only I could update the SP :scratch: There should be a precise organization for this to be done :unsure:

Cava
11-09-2011, 06:41 PM
How will this be organized? Only 1 manager can create the thread and if the 2nd one is to update it or at least a part of it this will need 2 people to share the same account. If I decide to help you how will I update the SP or Picks history which you have created? I will have to enter through your account, no?! Or I will have to post my own post let's say the one containing SP between your "ATP players list" and "Standings" posts. But this will mean only I could update the SP :scratch: There should be a precise organization for this to be done :unsure:

Yes, this is what I was envisioning. The 2nd manager creating the scoring points post in the thread. Or 2 scoring points threads, one made by each manager. That way assistant manager can populate 1st round scoring points. Then the main manager can resume normal duties going forward.

I know it's not ideal. But if it comes down to not having managers...

Aenea
11-09-2011, 07:05 PM
I am up for any experiments which will lead to positive results. If the PAW Board allows us count me in for trying the idea with the "in-between SP" post. If we get a green light from PB details could be discussed via PM when the time nears.

Boarder35m
11-09-2011, 08:43 PM
I remember that there once was a tournament opened by the PAW board.

Could it be possible to make that every week (we could also just create a user named "PAW manager") and give the password (which would have to be changed every week) to 2 managers who can divide the work between themselves? :scratch:

dinkulpus
11-09-2011, 08:47 PM
I remember that there once was a tournament opened by the PAW board.

Could it be possible to make that every week (we could also just create a user named "PAW manager") and give the password (which would have to be changed every week) to 2 managers who can divide the work between themselves? :scratch:

Тhat is a good idea :yeah:, I will try to manage also several tournament next year, PAW is the only game in which I not try to manage yet :worship:

Aenea
11-09-2011, 08:56 PM
I remember that there once was a tournament opened by the PAW board.

Could it be possible to make that every week (we could also just create a user named "PAW manager") and give the password (which would have to be changed every week) to 2 managers who can divide the work between themselves? :scratch:

this could be a bit problematic as often we have 2 or even 3 tournaments per week. what if all 3 tournaments have 2 managers each? then 6 people will have to enter through same account. And how the password shall be passed? Who will change it each week?
I am for Cava's idea. It won't be so difficult to arrange both of us to be on board when the thread is opened and after the thread is created each manager updates his/her part of it. I am willing to try this out.

hallso
11-09-2011, 09:10 PM
I don't see problem with having two posts, one with First Round points, another with rest rounds - but of course they should be next to each one

hallso
11-10-2011, 07:24 AM
other issue

what do you think about a little change to the rankings?
now it's 13 mandatory tournaments (4slams + 9atp1000) and 5 best of others
I propose to change it to 4 slams, 8 best (or even 7) of 9 atp1000 and 6/7 others (including or not remaining 1/2 atp1000)
or maybe 6th best from others if someone miss atp1000 - it's not always easy to play in every of 13 mandatory

coolfish1103
11-10-2011, 07:24 AM
Password sharing is too much of a deal but 2 managers sharing insert posts in a thread should be okay cause I have seen it done in Slam for other games. It's not like every single tournament managed has to be worked by multiple managers.

I think reducing 9 atp to 8 is fine since official ATP only mandates 8. 6 others should be fine since that's equivalent of 4 500 + 2 250.

sfar
11-10-2011, 09:49 PM
I will try to manage a tournament next year and see how it goes. I've managed Suicide Tennis and it doesn't take that long, but I regret PAW will take me much more time. And not only that, PAW needs posts to be published with some time in advance for players to place their picks. I could only post 'regularly' at the end of the day (CET).

I have the same problem as Cava, I have little time on weekends. For a 2 manager tournament, why not one opening all posts in the first page and the other one e-mailing it's respective posts (scores, picks,...) for the first to post? Maybe it's not the most effective way, but just another suggestion.

appleGirl
11-11-2011, 10:05 PM
I know that I haven't managed a lot, but speaking from my own experience - I think it will be tough to do it with 2 managers if you need to email each other stuff... They'll have to send each other the spreadsheet after every single change they make, which can potentially lead to confusion with versions, etc.
But if there's one manager who only needs to post the scoring points based on the real tournament draw, then it would make it easier for the "main" manager, who'll be dealing with the players' picks. This would also help with time differences, I guess.

Anyway, I hope that I can manage more in 2012 (even though my schedule will probably be less flexible :sad: ). If it helps - I do have time on weekends, at least right now :)

coolfish1103
11-12-2011, 01:33 AM
It will only relieve the time constraints cause the main manager still need to work the points out on his/her own spreadsheet to be able to score all the picks. The work isn't offloaded. One manager per event probably still the best possible scenario.

sfar
11-12-2011, 03:25 PM
Well, I haven't managed a PAW tournament yet so I'm not the best to give out any suggestions for managers. ;)

jrm
11-13-2011, 06:41 PM
other issue

what do you think about a little change to the rankings?
now it's 13 mandatory tournaments (4slams + 9atp1000) and 5 best of others
I propose to change it to 4 slams, 8 best (or even 7) of 9 atp1000 and 6/7 others (including or not remaining 1/2 atp1000)
or maybe 6th best from others if someone miss atp1000 - it's not always easy to play in every of 13 mandatory

I'm thinking blond here but wouldn't it be easier to have all results go into your ranking? Points would drop and be added every week - if you play 21 tournaments, 21 results go into your score, if you play 35 tournaments, 35 results go into your score! After all, we are playing every week :shrug:

jrm
11-13-2011, 06:43 PM
Question for managers: what is the most painful thing for you, being a manager? See what most are bothered about and try to come up with easier solution(s) :shrug:

jrm
11-13-2011, 07:02 PM
What would be in my interest:

Scheduled matches of the day; all PAW predictions for matches played on that day should be posted one hour before the first match of the day starts! I like to be in control but when i'm not around to monitor matches and when they start, i would like to have some sort of barriere to lean on!

I really don't find it fair when points are awarded for matches where one of the player retires! The fairest solution would be all retirements are invalid and pick(s) can be replaced! OK, current system works for managers (not deleting picks from Excel file) but i'm willing to take that risk!

if not; all retirements in round 1 and round 2 would be invalid, onwards they would count ... for 250 tournaments. In 500 tournaments all retirements before QF would be invalid, same thing for 1000 tournaments and Slams! History tells us most retirements come in early rounds.

Players using PR are always pain in the neck; my suggestion ... all matches involving players with PR would be void! Don't see it fair when player uses PR status that allows him to get in the main draw but becuase he doesn't have any ranking points (or not much) we award him 40 points! It's just not fair when someone with protective ranking draws someone outside top100 and you still get more points as two players ranked 48th and 53rd!

no more WC; when commitments are closed and you didn't commit, bye-bye!

Aenea
11-13-2011, 08:15 PM
What would be in my interest:

Scheduled matches of the day; all PAW predictions for matches played on that day should be posted one hour before the first match of the day starts! I like to be in control but when i'm not around to monitor matches and when they start, i would like to have some sort of barriere to lean on!

there are sites providing start times for all matches played, you only have to check. In todays times of immediate internet information why should we go back to the times of the telegraphs? You don't need to be present when players post their picks and matches start.

I really don't find it fair when points are awarded for matches where one of the player retires! The fairest solution would be all retirements are invalid and pick(s) can be replaced! OK, current system works for managers (not deleting picks from Excel file) but i'm willing to take that risk!

if not; all retirements in round 1 and round 2 would be invalid, onwards they would count ... for 250 tournaments. In 500 tournaments all retirements before QF would be invalid, same thing for 1000 tournaments and Slams! History tells us most retirements come in early rounds.

Players using PR are always pain in the neck; my suggestion ... all matches involving players with PR would be void! Don't see it fair when player uses PR status that allows him to get in the main draw but becuase he doesn't have any ranking points (or not much) we award him 40 points! It's just not fair when someone with protective ranking draws someone outside top100 and you still get more points as two players ranked 48th and 53rd!

Why so complicated? Even ATP counts retirements as wins why not PAW? It is just a game after all.

no more WC; when commitments are closed and you didn't commit, bye-bye!
what if somebody has been ill or away from the forum for awhile and returns the day tournament starts? Why should we deprive such players from joining a tournament by refusing WC? Besides there are not so many asking for WC.

I don't think PAW needs too much and too big changes. The game is fine as it is and why trying to repair something that is working well. Now starting to change almost all of the PAW rules - I don't think players will agree. Besides the game was created to resemble a real tennis tournament hence PAW follows ATP rules.

@Greg: I don't say anything about what you asked because I don't know the matter well. You have been running the ranking for long time so I think you should know best.

jrm
11-13-2011, 09:05 PM
Have you seen any regular player here, proposing something? I haven't! I'm going to say it again - if people don't say anything, they don't care :shrug: so why should they care about some rule changes (and i'm not talking about potencial aftermath should we change something)?

Would ranking be any different if we had best 18 results in one year without mandatory ones like slams and 1000 tournaments?

sfar
11-13-2011, 09:53 PM
I am a regular player and I like it with a limited number of tournaments because it's more realistic, more like in real ATP.

And I am with hallso with the rule of 4 GS, 7/8 mandatories and the rest with 500s and 250s, it is more flexible.

jrm, I think your suggestions are very important to know everyones needs and opinions, but I also like the game as it is, this is, being as similar as possible to ATP tour.

BTW, it would be great if more regular players would come and give their opinion, this would make the game grow!!

Aenea
11-13-2011, 11:26 PM
IMO most PAW players don't even know changes to the rules have been discussed here. When they come to the board and even if they see this thread up on the front site it is named PAW Board for 2011 so they may think only PAW Board is discussed and don't bother since for a regular player it won't matter who is in the PAW Board. I guess if they knew that the rules have been discussed they might show more interest.

coolfish1103
11-14-2011, 03:48 AM
What would be in my interest:

Scheduled matches of the day; all PAW predictions for matches played on that day should be posted one hour before the first match of the day starts! I like to be in control but when i'm not around to monitor matches and when they start, i would like to have some sort of barriere to lean on!

One hour may be too much. I think it's better to follow suit like Suicide Tennis. When first match of the day starts, all picks posted after will be treated as invalid. Sometimes it is impossible to check if there are picks posted after couple points have been played unless you are in front of the scoreboard at all times. It's also okay to not change the rules because the obvious ones will be noticed when you check the match history.

I really don't find it fair when points are awarded for matches where one of the player retires! The fairest solution would be all retirements are invalid and pick(s) can be replaced! OK, current system works for managers (not deleting picks from Excel file) but i'm willing to take that risk!

I think the current rules are fine. If the matches are played, they should count regardless. Treating all these picks as void actually creates more work for the managers and the players to follow.

if not; all retirements in round 1 and round 2 would be invalid, onwards they would count ... for 250 tournaments. In 500 tournaments all retirements before QF would be invalid, same thing for 1000 tournaments and Slams! History tells us most retirements come in early rounds.

Rules with if's in consideration are horrible, either they all count or they don't count at all.

Players using PR are always pain in the neck; my suggestion ... all matches involving players with PR would be void! Don't see it fair when player uses PR status that allows him to get in the main draw but becuase he doesn't have any ranking points (or not much) we award him 40 points! It's just not fair when someone with protective ranking draws someone outside top100 and you still get more points as two players ranked 48th and 53rd!

I still think the match should count since they are played. It is a risk for the PAW players to take cause not all PR players perform well after they return from injuries. Maybe 40 points are too low to justify a ranking, how about use the lowest points possible in the main draw found? If a lowest rank qualifier qualified for the main draw has 350 points, use 350 points for the PR? Though LL may create problems if they come at a later time.

no more WC; when commitments are closed and you didn't commit, bye-bye

Reducing the # of WCs may be another idea.

--

Limited number of matches is actually better because not everyone is going to be available for play for the entire season. It allows certain players to take a break if they have enough points and it allows certain players to miss couple matches and still be in contention for the top spots. In addition, it's more like the ATP rules.

--

I think the most painful thing the manager has to do is to find and fix the picks (there are other ones but most of them involves ATP and is not really fixable). If anything I want to propose, it would be picks not written in the correct format to be counted as invalid. The invalid pick will be posted in the score sheet so they can see they made an error and they can rePAW to fix it. But the rePAW will have to be a different match since the match they picked has already been played. If they don't fix the picks, they will receive 0 points for the tournament because no scores will show with error picks inside.

Usually when I want the pick format to be,

PAW01 Berdych over Federer -or-
PAW10 Berdych over Federer

I get:

PAW1 Berdych over Federer

PAW10: Berdych over Federer
PAW 10 Berdych over Federer
PAW10 Berdych def Federer
PAW10 Berdych d. Federer
P10 Berdych over Federer
PAW10 Berdych beats Federer
PAW10 Berdych defends Federer
PAW#10 Berdych over Federer

and it gets worse when people have spelling mistakes...

Aenea
11-14-2011, 11:29 AM
Managers who are using simple sheets to manage PAW don't have problems with formatting, spelling mistakes etc. So we cannot void picks only because they don't have exactly 6 characters before the actual pick. It is manager's decision what PAW file to use for management - either simple file or Evita's. They both have advantages and disadvantages - you either choose to calculate SP and standings automatically but have to correct picks or you manually calculate SP, standings etc and don't correct anything. In both cases managers have to put some work.

Cava
11-14-2011, 02:27 PM
I haven't see a rule change I agree with :eek:
The game runs fine with the current rules. Changing rules aren't going to increase managers.

Most players do a good job formatting picks. And usually a quick reminder is all that is needed for someone that consistently inputs them in the wrong format - usually it is a new player.

I would like to see more tournaments counted towards the rankings. It seems like PAW uses the lowest # of tournaments. It is the easiest game to play on a weekly basis given that you can start your picks at any time.

coolfish1103
11-16-2011, 05:02 PM
I think the # of tournaments counted are fine since that's what the ATP counts. It gives player the option to take a break and the managers would not have to deal with as many players participating in too many mandatory events.

purtov45
11-17-2011, 12:41 PM
I think the # of tournaments counted are fine since that's what the ATP counts. It gives player the option to take a break and the managers would not have to deal with as many players participating in too many mandatory events.
Player ATP for a year plays 20 tournaments or more (let 24). For a rating take 18, these are 75 %. We play 35 tournaments. IMO, it is possible to count a rating by 25 best results (71%).

purtov45
11-17-2011, 01:00 PM
Cava

IMO, the problem of the second manager does not exist! Your work to open a thread on Friday, with the list and a rating of tennis players, and to appear following time on Monday in the evening.

Now each player can see a schedule itself for the first day and calculate pts for each pair. It is necessary to spend only 10 seconds for three operations on the calculator (division, sqrt, 1/n).

That from players which will make it before others, can facilitate a life the rest and place the schedule with pts in the post.

sdtoot
11-23-2011, 11:10 PM
Some interesting opinions expressed here. For what it's worth (although I won't be playing next year), here are my opinions:-

1. Retirements - I think the current rule is fine where the match counts after one point is played. We are currently voting on this topic on TF and over 80% of the PAW players have voted that retirements during a match should count. I am sure that we would get a very similar response if we voted on this topic here on MTF.

2. Number of tournaments to count towards ranking - I think hallso's suggestion to count the best 8 of 9 Masters Series events is a good one. With the current rule, if you cannot play at one Masters event (lets say you are on vacation), then it can have a big detriment to your PAW Entry and Race ranking. As a compromise, we could maybe count the best six (currently five) ATP 250/500 scores. This year, my 5th best score was 115 pts, which meant that I ended up making crazy picks late in the season to try to get a high finish at the lower events in order that I could improve my ranking.

3. I think the suggestion to allow the use of assistant managers to post the PAW scoring points is a good one. So long as the main manager can organise an assistant manager before they commit to running a tournament, then I do not see any problem. We see it regularly in Tennis Tipping, so why shouldn't it work in PAW?

4. With regards to fixing the format of PAW picks, then I don't agree with this proposal. I know a few managers are now using Evita's PAW spreadsheet, but to penalise players for not posting in the correct format seems very harsh to me.

5. Setting a deadline for posting picks before the start of play seems to be a reasonable suggestion. If this is a possible reason why we struggle to get managers for this game then it is worth considering, but we shouldn't forget that we do have websites such as xscores.com which posts the start times of all ATP matches (to the nearest 5 minute time slot). At the end of the day, the PAW manager just has to be sure that the pick was posted in time - if he/she has any doubts then the pick should not be accepted and the player must accept the consequences if they have posted a pick so close to the start time of the match.

One final point I would like to propose to the other PAW board members. jervisjames has been regular PAW manager this year (and also ran a GS) and he has offered to join the PAW Board for 2012. I think we should welcome more current PAW managers onto the PAW board, so I propose that he should be included as a member of the PAW Board for 2012.

Shaun :wavey:

jervisjames
12-11-2011, 05:06 AM
I think the most painful thing the manager has to do is to find and fix the picks (there are other ones but most of them involves ATP and is not really fixable). If anything I want to propose, it would be picks not written in the correct format to be counted as invalid. The invalid pick will be posted in the score sheet so they can see they made an error and they can rePAW to fix it. But the rePAW will have to be a different match since the match they picked has already been played. If they don't fix the picks, they will receive 0 points for the tournament because no scores will show with error picks inside.

Usually when I want the pick format to be,

PAW01 Berdych over Federer -or-
PAW10 Berdych over Federer

I get:

PAW1 Berdych over Federer

PAW10: Berdych over Federer
PAW 10 Berdych over Federer
PAW10 Berdych def Federer
PAW10 Berdych d. Federer
P10 Berdych over Federer
PAW10 Berdych beats Federer
PAW10 Berdych defends Federer
PAW#10 Berdych over Federer

and it gets worse when people have spelling mistakes...

I agree here essentially, it is a problem when using -Evita's- Spreadsheet. But I think you've over-exaggerated a little here. :D In the past 6-12 months, almost everyone is using
PAW10 Berdych over Federer
or
PAW10: Berdych over Federer
Some of these picks formats I have not seen before.

And it is a lot harsh to be penalizing people who make the odd spelling mistake or essentially have a version of the correct format.

I am happy with the status quo for PAW. I think any change really should be minimal.

coolfish1103
01-05-2012, 02:01 AM
Board:

A player made a pick of

PAW07 Sela over Paire
PAW08 Raonic over Hanescu

at 16:46 on Jan. 3 and

PAW08 Dodic over Soeda (should be Dodig over Soeda)

at 16:47 on Jan. 3.

I believe he meant the PAW07 and PAW08 prior to be really PAW06 and PAW07 since PAW06 was skipped. However, according to the rules, I should overwrite PAW08 with Dodig over Soeda.

Any ideas?

hallso
01-05-2012, 09:06 AM
it's common mistake to put wrong numbers to the PAWs, as well as the spelling ones
if someone doesn't use "replace" or similar word, you just count it as next available PAW
you should stay with all 3 picks

robuś
01-05-2012, 10:07 AM
it's common mistake to put wrong numbers to the PAWs, as well as the spelling ones
if someone doesn't use "replace" or similar word, you just count it as next available PAW
you should stay with all 3 picks
+1

coolfish1103
01-05-2012, 03:09 PM
Alright.

Aenea
01-05-2012, 07:02 PM
I suggest even though there is a shortage of PAW managers, we should start picking them. We cannot allow posters who obviously are not up to the task to "manage" tournaments. It is not acceptable to not have a League Table by the QF/SF of a tournament and all this only because some players didn't post their picks in the format the manager required. Yes, I am against players posting picks like p11 A def B or paw3 Dolgopolov, Alexandr(UKR) over Stepanek, Radek(CZE) but only because of some spelling mistakes, : or other minor differences to not want to post a valid LT?
If someone feels s/he cannot cope with the work a manager should put in a tournament s/he should not apply to be a manager. This is a game which people are supposed to be enjoying and not be commanded.

coolfish1103
02-23-2012, 12:23 PM
New question. It may be resolved if the player gets it fixed in time.

A player made 9 picks already in the game (PAW01 to 09).

The player made another 5 picks naming PAW09 to 13 and only 13 picks are allowed.

Do I count PAW09-12 or PAW10-13?

Currently I am counting PAW10-13 cause PAW09 already got used.

hallso
02-23-2012, 12:47 PM
I always count them chronologically, so in this case it would be 9-12

coolfish1103
02-23-2012, 01:07 PM
I always count them chronologically, so in this case it would be 9-12

Alright.

coolfish1103
02-23-2012, 04:37 PM
I suggest even though there is a shortage of PAW managers, we should start picking them. We cannot allow posters who obviously are not up to the task to "manage" tournaments. It is not acceptable to not have a League Table by the QF/SF of a tournament and all this only because some players didn't post their picks in the format the manager required. Yes, I am against players posting picks like p11 A def B or paw3 Dolgopolov, Alexandr(UKR) over Stepanek, Radek(CZE) but only because of some spelling mistakes, : or other minor differences to not want to post a valid LT?
If someone feels s/he cannot cope with the work a manager should put in a tournament s/he should not apply to be a manager. This is a game which people are supposed to be enjoying and not be commanded.

Almost two months later I caught up with this post cause I have to ask another question here. I think it's easier if you just tell me I am not fitted to manage PAW tournaments. I am perfectly fine to stay as a poster.

For the particular case in Chennai, I would like to explain what really happened. The league table was correct in order sorted but with #N/A points to remind some players (not all) that they need to fix their picks. They can also tally up points in the individual picks section if they can't see their points in league table. However, it has nothing to do with a particular format I'd like players to send.

The reason why they all turned into #N/A is because I'd like to remind people that Devvarman withdrew, or an invalid pick (non-format related) has been made. As much as I would like the picks to be in standard formats, I have corrected all the picks that I can understand if they are in different formats. At most I did with formats related was just to remind people by quoting their post and suggest them to make my life easier or make a code thread in the announcement section.

Furthermore, after 156mphserve in Chennai indicated that it's not readable (since they probably need to know how many points their opponents have as well to make strategic picks), I have turned them all into No Picks Yet and not bother reminding people about the invalid picks. Since then, that's what I have been doing for all the tournaments.

Maybe what happened in Tokyo last year made you think I am a very mean and ignorant person, but what happened in Chennai is definitely not what you described above. In any case, I will finish the management in Memphis and just be a poster.

Aenea
02-23-2012, 05:58 PM
What I think of you as a person is irrelevant here. I only care PAW has good and responsible managers.

Yes, I meant you when I wrote that above. And I still mean what I have written in this post. I have never said you were unfit but what you did back then with that tournament (can't remember which it was but if you say it was Chennai then maybe it was, can't recall what happened in Tokyo though) was wrong tactic. I do recall that until very late, QF/SF there was not a valid LT and players were unaware of the progress of the tournament. You say they could look at their own picks etc but this is not all you have to know when competing. You look at the overall standings, see who are your immediate competition, what is the dff in the standings etc. So having a valid LT through the whole tournament is important. I don't think you should punish players only because of small mistakes. They have become pretty disciplined and if some are making mistakes it is spelling mistakes or putting : or other marks in the picks out of habit.

I am not observing the tournaments you manage so I don't know how you managed the next tournaments. If I decided to take a look at this tournament, Chennai, was because a PAW player I know raised my attention. And for the other tournament where a player was prematurely announced the winner was only by chance because I accidentally posted it that thread by mistake.

If you think you are a fit manager and keep to the rules and treat players respectfully I don't think you should step down as a manger. If you feel you cannot cope with the amount of work managing a tournament demands, fine, walk away. You decide for yourself. But I find your post and decision to be rather emotional and a bit childish so I suggest you sleep on it and then decide.

A quarrel between the managers is not good for the game. I accepted already that friendly relations like in TT won't be established in PAW but let's at least not quarrel between ourselves as this brings nothing good to the game.

P.S. And before you jump on the keyboard to reply take some time, read my post again, think on it, be sure you have understood correctly and then write.