Poll: Does Murray just lack the killer instinct? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Poll: Does Murray just lack the killer instinct?

2003
10-30-2010, 12:25 AM
I think the real reason Murray has been unable to bag a slam is that he lacks the killer instinct inherant in other players, and almost always in multiple slam winners, Federer, Nadal and so on.

It is inherant in being a pusher or a defensive player that you would rather keep the ball in play and wait for your oponent to choke the point on a BP or a big moment. But I think, watching the 10 AO final against Federer in the 3rd set, when it was there for the taking, Murray lacked the balls to go for the win. Where your Federer or Nadal makes things happen, Murray seems unable to hit those big points in Slams when he needs to.

It's almost as if he plays not to lose, rather than plays to win.

In 07 AO, before the big wrist injury, although he lacked the stamina to back it up, Murray played hot, attacking tennis. He could blast players off the court for sets at a time. Then he switched to this fitness based game.

You simply cant beat the big players, or even hot players on the day, by controlling the point and waiting for them to choke. You just cant win slams that way. When will Murray learn?

I think Murray has to just go for it at the 2011 AO. If your afraid to lose, you can never learn to play to win. Thats why pushers pretty much never win slams (nadal is a retreiver but he has the big forehand to kill big points when he needs to).

Discuss. He said after losing to Wawa that its just one loss and hes not going to panick and change anything. But thats his problem, he needs to change! 2 or 3 slams now have been ripe for the picking for him, and hes blown them because he is playing all wrong. The way he played against Fed in the recent final is a good start, but the holes were still there, and Fed will capitilise on them in a GS final. It also seems the fortunes and rub of the green dont favour the pushers in slams either.

They say fortune favours the brave. I believe this to be true of attacking tennis players. Just look at Birdytch making a slam final. I think that tells all one needs to know.

Filo V.
10-30-2010, 12:31 AM
He has killer instinct. The fact he is stubborn is his issue. As you said in your post, he doesn't have the game to win majors. The fact is, he's vulnerable against any well player offensive player who has the power and tactical ability to wipe him off the court, and playing the way he does is mentally and physically demanding, and hard to keep up for an extended period. He's not ever going to be a big hitter, though, or the type who controls points by dictating with heavy hard shots, so he just has to do a better job of not getting stuck in ruts of playing negatively. Play his game but also step it up when the opportunities are there and the situations call for it.

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
10-30-2010, 12:36 AM
he is much better than djokovic and probably the best hard court player in the world when he's playing hot

(and it really pains me to say it, because im not a fan)

he doesnt need to change anything, he needs the stupid press to back off and he needs some new british hope to come in to relieve all his pressure

.-Federers_Mate-.
10-30-2010, 12:45 AM
No. He just plays the wrong players at the wrong time.

alter ego
10-30-2010, 12:51 AM
probably the best hard court player in the world when he's playing hot


No, that's actually Federer.

ApproachShot
10-30-2010, 01:08 AM
Just because he is a good defensive player doesn't mean that he lacks killer instinct. I saw killer instict against Nadal at the Australian Open earlier in the year. It's just that everything hasn't all fallen squarely in place for Murray at a Grand Slam tournament. He's good enough to beat anybody (even Fedal) but he can also beat himself up against much lower ranked opponents, which is often his undoing.

Whatever it is, he needs to translate his success in the Masters Series to the best of 5 format. I don't think it's an endurance issue either, as he is one of the fittest players on tour. Murray would probably have at least a couple of slams by now if Fedal were not around but as it is, his 100% losing record in Grand Slam finals isn't going to help if he reaches the final stage again.

Gabe32
10-30-2010, 01:22 AM
To become #3 in the world in anything, let alone one of the most popular sports means you have the killer instinct. It's just the talent gap between Nadal/Federer and everyone else is huge. He might get a slam or two as Fed keeps slowing down.

leng jai
10-30-2010, 01:47 AM
The difference between the top 2 and everyone else isn't talent. Its consistency and their mental game.

Clay Death
10-30-2010, 01:55 AM
highlander`s misfortune:

1. he has 2 all time greats ahead of him. that is not easily overcome if ever. murray needs a break. he needs somebody to finish off clay warrior and fed early in a slam. easier said than done. fed will hang around long enough to gun down murray and nadal--going forward-- will hang around long enough to work over fed if he gets his hands on him.

and finally, its is near impossible to beat nadal in a final of slam.

2. he lacks the killer forehand

rocketassist
10-30-2010, 02:31 AM
His problem: he's played Federer in his two finals who brought his A game.

Federer's A game >> any other player ever playing as well as they can. Doesn't matter who. Fed brings it all to the table, he wins, simple as that.

brent-o
10-30-2010, 02:59 AM
Crap, I voted 'yes' but I meant 'nope' lol

Topspindoctor
10-30-2010, 03:29 AM
Mugray isn't as talented as people make him out to be. His second serve sucks, his forehand is awful and he is a pusher. I hope he never wins a slam, it would be as bad as Pushniacki winning a slam on women's side.

.-Federers_Mate-.
10-30-2010, 03:35 AM
Mugray isn't as talented as people make him out to be. His second serve sucks, his forehand is awful and he is a pusher. I hope he never wins a slam, it would be as bad as Pushniacki winning a slam on women's side.

http://www.thequoteblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/arnold_schwarzenegger_foto_archivo_tomada_enero_20 05.jpg

selyoink
10-30-2010, 04:25 AM
Mugray isn't as talented as people make him out to be. His second serve sucks, his forehand is awful and he is a pusher. I hope he never wins a slam, it would be as bad as Pushniacki winning a slam on women's side.

I'm not a fan of Murray's game but he can't be as bad as you think since he has played in 2 slam finals and is capable of beating anyone.

Wait a minute did I just respond seriously to a Topspindoctor post?

What I meant to say is Murray is future GOAT because he knows how to overcome current GOAT's top spin. Armed with that knowledge nothing can stop Murray from overthrowing GOAT Nadull.

emotion
10-30-2010, 04:27 AM
Murray does not use anger very well (Djokovic and Hewitt are good at this) and it hurts him instead

Topspindoctor
10-30-2010, 04:30 AM
I'm not a fan of Murray's game but he can't be as bad as you think since he has played in 2 slam finals and is capable of beating anyone.

Wait a minute did I just respond seriously to a Topspindoctor post?

What I meant to say is Murray is future GOAT because he knows how to overcome current GOAT's top spin. Armed with that knowledge nothing can stop Murray from overthrowing GOAT Nadull.

Mugray HAS reached 2 GS finals, but did he beat Federer? No, he hasn't. AO 2010 was his for the taking and instead of playing offensive tennis he played in QF, he turned into a pussy and let Federer demolish him. He's honestly a joke, a junkballer with no game and defensive mind set. He fails on clay. He struggles with decent players on his fav surface (Cilic, Wawrinka), please tell me why this clown is a favorite going into 3/4 slams? I am guessing he will be one of the favs going into AO and will probably lose miserably in earlier rounds or get another trashing in the finals. Honestly, he is the most overrated player of the last 3 years.

coonster14
10-30-2010, 04:47 AM
He has killer instinct, there were "glimpses" of it against Rafa and Roger at Toronto where he beat them both back to back to win the title.

The problem is that so far, Muzza just has not been able to deliver the goods on the big stage yet, and also add to that, he played against Roger in both grand slam finals (USO 08 and AO 10) where Roger showed up with his best game to the court.

2003
10-30-2010, 05:59 AM
Muggaybo has reached 2 slam finals, but what about all the other times he has let down?

Mugaybo had a great chance of taking Fuderer at the 2009 Wimbledon, but he failed to make the final, losing another match he should have won against Shandi Dick Todd.

Face it, Mugaybo is just one big let down.

nadal_slam_king
10-30-2010, 06:15 AM
The gap between Rafa and Murray at Wimbledon is 6 sets to zero, Rafa leads. The gap between Federer and Murray at AO/USO is 6 sets to zero, Federer leads. Murray has a long way to go. He shouldn't be considered a contender for slams. Djokovic is a contender because he can beat Federer in slams. And Djokovic is extremely good on clay.

16681
10-30-2010, 06:24 AM
Murray has lots of talent and I am a fan, but I do have to question his metal toughness in Matches/Tournaments :sad:

Mechlan
10-30-2010, 10:14 AM
The gap between Rafa and Murray at Wimbledon is 6 sets to zero, Rafa leads. The gap between Federer and Murray at AO/USO is 6 sets to zero, Federer leads. Murray has a long way to go. He shouldn't be considered a contender for slams. Djokovic is a contender because he can beat Federer in slams. And Djokovic is extremely good on clay.

Um, and Murray has beaten Nadal at slams, so what?

Murray's problem isn't Federer and Nadal, it's beating the players he should beat. If he can do this, he will win a slam. He is capable of winning of beating both Federer and Nadal. Not every time, but he'll do it.

dombrfc
10-30-2010, 10:44 AM
Murray was just unlucky to have to play the greatest tennis player of all time playing near his best in 2 grand slam finals.

«Ivan»
10-30-2010, 01:58 PM
sadly yes(voted nope by mistake).

he should retire.

nadal_slam_king
10-30-2010, 02:24 PM
Um, and Murray has beaten Nadal at slams, so what?

Murray's problem isn't Federer and Nadal, it's beating the players he should beat. If he can do this, he will win a slam. He is capable of winning of beating both Federer and Nadal. Not every time, but he'll do it.

Murray's problem is Federer. Remember, Murray beat Nadal at the 2008 US Open and 2010 Australian Open. And he lost Federer in straight sets in the Final of both. And at Wimbledon, Murray's problem is Rafa, lost to him twice in straight sets. That covers all the slams Murray is good for, since he has no chance at Roland Garros.

Sham Kay
10-30-2010, 02:28 PM
sadly yes(voted nope by mistake).

he should retire.
By this logic only Fedal and possibly Djoker should continue playing tennis.

The answer is yes, at the moment. Though that will certainly change. All he'll need is a bit of luck here and there in a slam.

zerocool_
10-30-2010, 03:09 PM
He lack brain.

LEGENDOFTENNIS
10-30-2010, 03:35 PM
Hes got an excellent backhand, good net play when he comes in, fast/agile player, clever only thing he lacks is a forehand and the mindset to take a huge risk in a rally. I've seen him clock forehands when he wants to but i was watching his game vs Roddick Wimby 09 and his Wawrinka Us Open 2010 and he never seems to roast that forehand. If he goes for broke on that forehand more often im pretty sure he can win the Aussie Open. Federers generation is declining bigtime only people who can challenge him at the Aussie Open are Nadal/Djokovic/Federer IMO

luie
10-30-2010, 03:46 PM
He needs multiple matches against nadull on HC to get his mentality/confidence growing.

RedHotRafa
10-30-2010, 03:51 PM
Only at majors

GeoMaster
10-30-2010, 03:53 PM
NO, he has it, he just lacks the game :D

rocketassist
10-30-2010, 05:55 PM
The gap between Rafa and Murray at Wimbledon is 6 sets to zero, Rafa leads. The gap between Federer and Murray at AO/USO is 6 sets to zero, Federer leads. Murray has a long way to go. He shouldn't be considered a contender for slams. Djokovic is a contender because he can beat Federer in slams. And Djokovic is extremely good on clay.

And Murray can beat Nadal in slams.

Your point?

Serenidad
10-30-2010, 06:57 PM
Word Life hasn't raided this thread yet?

Mechlan
10-30-2010, 09:31 PM
Murray's problem is Federer. Remember, Murray beat Nadal at the 2008 US Open and 2010 Australian Open. And he lost Federer in straight sets in the Final of both. And at Wimbledon, Murray's problem is Rafa, lost to him twice in straight sets. That covers all the slams Murray is good for, since he has no chance at Roland Garros.

Except Federer is getting worse, so it's unlikely Murray will have to beat Federer in a slam final, and if he does, his chances are much better than they were before.

BK 201
10-30-2010, 09:42 PM
he is much better than djokovic and probably the best hard court player in the world when he's playing hot



Do you watch tennis?

hicdick
10-30-2010, 10:00 PM
he's never been my favorite, but i actually wish he could win a slam and start meeting those huge expectations. tennis is in a bit boring state at the moment, with players from federer's generation declining and teenagers finding it hard to break in top 100, nevermind top 10. nadal is dominating at the moment and i think he's only true competitor is federer who will be 30 next year. tennis needs more grand slam winners to make it interesting for people who don't regularly follow tennis.

Roddickominator
10-30-2010, 10:08 PM
I wouldn't say he lacks the killer instinct....but he does lack a consistent killer instinct. We've seen him come in focused and determined and blow Nadal off the court before. He just doesn't keep it up enough to win Slams. That leaves him vulnerable to any aggressive player on a hot streak.

Luckily for Murray, he is talented enough to win a Slam even without that if he gets a good draw.

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
10-31-2010, 02:54 AM
when murray playe nadal (us 08) he played attacking tennis

his forehand worked

his backhand destroyed nadals forehand attacks

murray matched nadals speed, court coverage and stamina

his first serve is light years ahead of nadal's

his ROS has been amongst the best in the world since 2008

on hard courts murray is certainly the best in the world when he plays his best

federer has declined, nadal will never be a hard court great, and djokovic looks like a one slam wonder- who only won that one slam because of mono

if federer was in 2005-2006 form, he would triple bagel even murray at his best- guaranteed- at the slams
so murray doesnt rate anywhere near the absolute total domination that fed brought to the table

however, since fed declined- everyone else has a chance to win a slam, and murray is best equipped from everyone to do this

even a 50% federer (ao 2010) is too good for murray at the slams though- so murray needs to bring his best and hope fed chokes

xargon
10-31-2010, 04:19 AM
he is much better than djokovic

How? Djokovic has 1 GS, 2 GS finals, 5 MS, 1 YEC, 1 Olympic medal.

Clay Death
10-31-2010, 04:38 AM
How? Djokovic has 1 GS, 2 GS finals, 5 MS, 1 YEC, 1 Olympic medal.



exactly affirmative.

well said and stated.

shiaben
10-31-2010, 04:55 AM
In the Federer match in the last master series final, I noticed Murray, defeated Federer a lot with his backhand. He seemed to try his best to ignore his forehand and kept going back to his back hand. He might have done this for 2 reasons. His backhand is his strength against Federer, and his forehand would expose weaknesses.

nadal_slam_king
10-31-2010, 04:56 AM
And Murray can beat Nadal in slams.

Your point?

Not true. Murray can't even take a set off Rafa at Wimbledon in 6 attempts, and of course at Roland Garros. And whilst he's had success against Rafa on hardcourts, I wouldn't mind seeing Murray vs Rafa in a US Open or AO Final, I'd like Rafa's chances. I wouldn't be saying this if Murray decided to "go for broke" in his GS Finals vs Federer. He can hit a 160km/h backhand if he wants, but doesn't in the big matches.

rocketassist
10-31-2010, 10:10 AM
Not true. Murray can't even take a set off Rafa at Wimbledon in 6 attempts, and of course at Roland Garros. And whilst he's had success against Rafa on hardcourts, I wouldn't mind seeing Murray vs Rafa in a US Open or AO Final, I'd like Rafa's chances. I wouldn't be saying this if Murray decided to "go for broke" in his GS Finals vs Federer. He can hit a 160km/h backhand if he wants, but doesn't in the big matches.

Same thing as Nole-Fed then. Nole can win on HCs, but on natural surfaces, especially Wimbledon, he'd be huge underdog.

Not to mention Nole can't beat Nadal in a slam.

nadal_slam_king
10-31-2010, 11:31 AM
Same thing as Nole-Fed then. Nole can win on HCs, but on natural surfaces, especially Wimbledon, he'd be huge underdog.

Not to mention Nole can't beat Nadal in a slam.

For sure, if there was any illusion that DJokovic could hurt Rafa in a slam it left at the US Open, knowning that Rafa is better on the other surfaces. It was a vital blow, because they will probably meet at Roland Garros and maybe even Wimbledon in future as Djokovic continues his improvement on both surface and made the Wimbledon sf.

Topspindoctor
10-31-2010, 11:43 AM
when murray playe nadal (us 08) he played attacking tennis

his forehand worked

his backhand destroyed nadals forehand attacks

murray matched nadals speed, court coverage and stamina

his first serve is light years ahead of nadal's

his ROS has been amongst the best in the world since 2008

on hard courts murray is certainly the best in the world when he plays his best

federer has declined, nadal will never be a hard court great, and djokovic looks like a one slam wonder- who only won that one slam because of mono

if federer was in 2005-2006 form, he would triple bagel even murray at his best- guaranteed- at the slams
so murray doesnt rate anywhere near the absolute total domination that fed brought to the table

however, since fed declined- everyone else has a chance to win a slam, and murray is best equipped from everyone to do this

even a 50% federer (ao 2010) is too good for murray at the slams though- so murray needs to bring his best and hope fed chokes

Rubbish. Murray beat Nadal in 2008 USO because he was tired. Nadal was a break up in 4th, but couldn't hold it because of fatigue. Remember Nadal won pretty much everything during clay season, RG, Queens, Wimbledon, Toronto, Olympics and went deep in all other tournaments, while Murray wasn't on the radar. In 2010 AO, Nadal was lacking confidence in his shots and didn't serve well (after bad 2009). I have huge doubts about Murray beating Nadal even on fast HC best of five format right now. His USO 2010 was scary, he was crushing and ball and bombing serves. Nadal in his USO 2010 form would beat Murray on HC in 4-5 sets, 3 tight sets on grass and a crushing beatdown on clay (not that Murray is making it that far...)

nadal_slam_king
10-31-2010, 12:09 PM
Rubbish. Murray beat Nadal in 2008 USO because he was tired. Nadal was a break up in 4th, but couldn't hold it because of fatigue. Remember Nadal won pretty much everything during clay season, RG, Queens, Wimbledon, Toronto, Olympics and went deep in all other tournaments, while Murray wasn't on the radar. In 2010 AO, Nadal was lacking confidence in his shots and didn't serve well (after bad 2009). I have huge doubts about Murray beating Nadal even on fast HC best of five format right now. His USO 2010 was scary, he was crushing and ball and bombing serves. Nadal in his USO 2010 form would beat Murray on HC in 4-5 sets, 3 tight sets on grass and a crushing beatdown on clay (not that Murray is making it that far...)

I agree, Rafa's US Open form was so polished, and Murray does tend to concede his serve even when he beats Rafa. I think Rafa in 2010 USO form would have Murray's measure. Rafa played well in AO 2010 vs Murray but you could see mentally it was still 2009 Rafa. He had to win Roland Garros to get back mentally.

2003
10-31-2010, 12:15 PM
exactly affirmative.

well said and stated.

But in my other thread you said Nadal was already better than Federer.

So the criteria doesnt work when Fed has over double the career achievements of Rafa?

Haha.