What will you think Kazakhstan's bought players make it in the world group? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

What will you think Kazakhstan's bought players make it in the world group?

Filo V.
09-16-2010, 11:58 PM
As you all know, the Kazakhstan tennis federation has bought players from Russia to compete for their national tennis team. Korolev, Golubev, Kukushkin and Schukin have all been payed large sums of money to represent the Kazakhstan, with the goal of making the world group of the Davis Cup, and leaping ahead of Russia in the world of tennis power. So, with this being said, how will you feel if players who have no familial connection towards the country of Kazakhstan bring this country into the world group of the Davis Cup? Especially being they are playing Switzerland at home, without the services of Federer. Do you not care, or does this annoy you?

Discuss.

finishingmove
09-17-2010, 12:02 AM
with the new rule regarding atp points and davis cup, they should have no problem with playing for whatever country.

i expect them to make the world group.

and i don't think the people of kazakhstan should be bothered that foreigners are representing their country either.

out_here_grindin
09-17-2010, 12:07 AM
It dosen't bother me. It's not like they are world beaters now, it's not a bad thing for there to be another competitive country in Davis Cup play.

Filo V.
09-17-2010, 01:27 AM
The way I see it personally, these men have improved their careers by accepting the proposal to play for Kazakhstan. They have more support than they ever would have received in Russia. They make a lot of money. They have facilities they can train at whenever they please. So, I have no issue with them doing what they need to do for their livelihoods.

With that said, it would be a little off for them to eliminate players who are actually playing for a country they are from because that's who they are and the love of their country, instead of players playing for a country for money and prestige purposes. Although if these guys get the support from true Kazakhstani's then it is what it is, if they have no problem with it, neither do I. I'm sure they don't care as long as these guys win, because they finally have a place on the tennis map.

Matchu
09-17-2010, 01:41 AM
I think it is a good thing that Kazahkstan will most likely be in the world group next year. Being in the world group generates interest in tennis for a nation and should cause the Kazahk media to write about tennis probably more than they would have before. Not only that but also the fact that some actual native Kazahks will get the chance to hit with the pros during the DC tie and soak in the world group experience and maybe motivate them to become top 100 players themselves one day.

All in all I think this is a very good thing for not only Kazahk tennis but also tennis in general because the more countries we have being competitive (especially in the Asian zone where Kazahkstan comepete) then the better tennis will get everywhere, as well as raising popularity levels. Vamos Kazahkstan, do it for the future of Kazahk tennis.

Tipster13
09-17-2010, 01:47 AM
Korolev, Golubev, Kukushkin and Schukin - they all can sold their nationality 4 money :) This is the reason that they also fix their matches because thay can do everyting 4 money. They dont know what is pride in sport, so - dont create threads about players like they are :)

Mungo
09-17-2010, 01:54 AM
Russia bought many athletes from former USSR countries, a taste of their own medicine I guess.

emotion
09-17-2010, 01:58 AM
Chiudinelli will fight like an animal for Switzerland and Wawa should win, so idk

Filo V.
09-17-2010, 02:01 AM
Chiudinelli will fight like an animal for Switzerland and Wawa should win, so idk

True, but Stan is admittedly still dealing with the thigh situation from the US Open, and says he's tired. I think Switzerland are the slight favorite. If the Kazakhs do come away victorious, I wonder what would happen if they are drawn Russia in R1. That situation could get testy.

Filo V.
09-17-2010, 02:05 AM
I think it is a good thing that Kazahkstan will most likely be in the world group next year. Being in the world group generates interest in tennis for a nation and should cause the Kazahk media to write about tennis probably more than they would have before. Not only that but also the fact that some actual native Kazahks will get the chance to hit with the pros during the DC tie and soak in the world group experience and maybe motivate them to become top 100 players themselves one day.

All in all I think this is a very good thing for not only Kazahk tennis but also tennis in general because the more countries we have being competitive (especially in the Asian zone where Kazahkstan comepete) then the better tennis will get everywhere, as well as raising popularity levels. Vamos Kazahkstan, do it for the future of Kazahk tennis.Great post. I totally agree. I didn't think of this previously but it makes so much sense.

Sauletekis
09-17-2010, 02:55 AM
Personally I hate this situation. Like I hate in soccer, (especially in my Portuguese team) I hate in tennis too. Representing the country should be a passionate thing. Not a "do money" thing.

And other thing. Imagine that good spanish players that doesn't have the chance to be in their team, like Gimeno-Traver, RRH or Pere Riba represent (for example) Monaco team. They are taking the chance of reasonable good teams like Poland, Latvia, Portugal or Lithuania to ever make it to the WG. It would be like a team Spain A and a team Spain B...

Filo V.
09-17-2010, 11:36 AM
Rubber #1: A. Golubev(KAZ) def. M. Chiudinelli(SUI) 6-4 6-4 6-4

Looks like things will be on Stan to win both his singles and pray the doubles of Allegro/Lammer get the job done. Although if Stan plays an easy singles match expect Allegro/Stan.

dombrfc
09-17-2010, 11:52 AM
Allegro/Stan surely.

DanaKz
09-17-2010, 11:56 AM
I am kazakh. I feel no liking for these guys. They are foreigners and they know nothing about Kazakhstan.
I don't care if they win or if they lose. I don't mind it.

gulzhan
09-17-2010, 01:04 PM
I am kazakh. I feel no liking for these guys. They are foreigners and they know nothing about Kazakhstan.
I don't care if they win or if they lose. I don't mind it.

I am a Kazak too and I think your opinion represents minority of tennis fans in Kazakstan. Maybe because you live abroad for a while, no?

First, I read interviews of Golubev, Kukushkin and Korolev, saw them during the Kazakstan National Championship (well, not Koro though)-- they know a lot about Kazakstan, come here quite often, like it here (and who doesn't?!) or at least say so.

Second, it's not a big difference if Golubev who lives in Italy or Korolev who lives in Germany represents Kazakstan or Russia. We've been the same country not long time ago and many Kazakstani athletes represented Soviet Union. In fact, for many more years majority of people in both Kazakstan and Russia will feel as we are from the same country, until the last generation of Soviets will be gone. If it was easy for Likhovtseva to represent Russia, why can't Korolev represent Kazakstan?

And finally, it's HUGE for all Kazaks that we fight for a place in the Wolrd Group! WE couldn't even dream about it three years ago! I am watching live the DC matches, the stadium is pretty full (not 100% full but tennis isn't yet that popular in Kazakstan) and it's a great event for our country.

You don't care if Kazakstan wins or not? Nothing to be proud of.

DanaKz
09-17-2010, 01:19 PM
You don't care if Kazakstan wins or not? Nothing to be proud of.

They are not "Kazakhstan". Just moneymakers. Nothing to cheer for.

DanaKz
09-17-2010, 01:24 PM
And finally, it's HUGE for all Kazaks that we fight for a place in the Wolrd Group! WE couldn't even dream about it three years ago!

I prefer Asia/Oceania Zone Group IV with our boys to World Group with gastarbeiters.

gulzhan
09-17-2010, 01:54 PM
I prefer Asia/Oceania Zone Group IV with our boys to World Group with gastarbeiters.

Aren't you one? A gastarbeiter, somewhere in US I guess, could see that from you been keen on unknown yankees.

gulzhan
09-17-2010, 01:55 PM
They are not "Kazakhstan". Just moneymakers. Nothing to cheer for.

You can continue cheering for Harrison, no pb with us.

DanaKz
09-17-2010, 02:00 PM
You can continue cheering for Harrison, no pb with us.

And you can continue cheering for bargain :wavey:

gulzhan
09-17-2010, 02:01 PM
Prime Minister of Kazakstan attends the match. Tarpishev is a guest of Kazakstan Tennis Federation.

Nice atmosphere. I am very proud of it!

JMG
09-17-2010, 02:47 PM
I would like to see them in the WG. :yeah:

~*BGT*~
09-17-2010, 03:13 PM
If Korolev can finally get a spot on a DC team, I am happy. :yeah:

Filo V.
09-17-2010, 03:21 PM
Rubber #2: Kukushkin(KAZ) def. Wawrinka(SUI) 3-6 6-1 6-4 1-6 6-3

Well, looks like the Kazakhs will be in the WG. I can't say I want them to make it over the Swiss, because I don't. But, it's not a surprise. The Swiss still have some chances in the doubles, but I can't see an injured Stan and a mediocre Chiudinelli winning their singles.

gulzhan
09-17-2010, 03:23 PM
:woohoo:

I really want our team to win! Andrey and Misha did great job today!

GL in doubles tomorrow!

gulzhan
09-17-2010, 03:25 PM
I would like to see them in the WG. :yeah:

If Korolev can finally get a spot on a DC team, I am happy. :yeah:

Thanks! :)

Filo V.
09-17-2010, 03:32 PM
:woohoo:

I really want our team to win! Andrey and Misha did great job today!

GL in doubles tomorrow!

Congrats :wavey: This is definitely a good thing in that it's good for the sport to see another country developing into a nation where tennis has more attention, also it helps any country in terms of revenue and most importantly it grows the sport across the world and gives 4 Russian guys the opportunity to play this event, which they wouldn't have otherwise. I'm disappointed, but happy for the Kazakhs.

dombrfc
09-17-2010, 06:46 PM
Looking good for them, I wonder what Rogers thoughts are...

Filo V.
09-18-2010, 12:20 PM
Rubber #3: Golubev/Schukin(KAZ) def. Wawrinka/Allegro(SUI) 6-4 6-3 6-3

KAZ 3-SUI 0

Kazakhstan is in the world group. Congrats to the players and all of the Kazakh posters here, and of course congrats to the fans in that country who now have another worldwide sport they can follow and enjoy and hopefully continue to grow in their country.

The Kazakh's looked inspired, and both Allegro and Stan were BAD. Allegro, for being a doubles specialist, doesn't cut the mustard. His serve isn't good enough and he doesn't move well enough at the net. Stan is just injured, he deserves credit for playing at all but he wasn't good enough.

Schukin, I didn't know he could play doubles but he was really good today, especially returning. Golubev also played well. They are a dangerous team to most wherever they get picked to play in the world group.

Nathaliia
09-18-2010, 12:38 PM
:woohoo:

Nice, I am happy and very proud of the chaps. I happen to know them all in person, just like Gulzhan says, they are all very thankful for the possibility of developing their tennis, having peace of mind practising and they really adore the atmosphere on the courts.
It needs to be sad along with "buying" players the federation also starts a program of training children. When these Russian guys finish their careers, Kazakhstan should already have their own "products".

And yep, usually players born in other ex Soviet republics played for Russia, now it's changing a bit. So, Russia is paying this Georgian kid Basilashvili so he'd play for them in the future.

I cheer on the glorious team of Kazakhstan :crazy:

gulzhan
09-18-2010, 05:30 PM
Thank you, Flyboy, thank you, Nathii! THank you very much for your warm words!

It's such a great day for all the Kazak tennis fans! We've watched the match today, the whole family gathered in front of TV, as I am sure in many other Kazak houses. As soon as the match was finished I started getting calls from different people, some of them were never interested in tennis before, all celebrating great event. Of course, Kazaks saying now we won DC :lol: but that's not considered a big exxageration for our culture ;)

I want to say you, guys, that all our Russian-Kazak guys were playing great! We saw them celebrating the victory of Kazakstan, they were proud to be able to thank Kazakstan with their game, everyone could feel it!

Of course, we are not a tennis country, of course, it'll take many years and a lot more efforts to raise good tennis players. But I'll tell you this-- I know for a fact that the best Kazak tennis juniors, all of them, now have free courts (even indoor!) and most of them have free coaches. It's a miracle! It became possible among other things thanks to the victories of these guys and girls, Russians who feel good about representing Kazakstan.

fran70
09-18-2010, 06:43 PM
As you all know, the Kazakhstan tennis federation has bought players from Russia to compete for their national tennis team. Korolev, Golubev, Kukushkin and Schukin have all been payed large sums of money to represent the Kazakhstan, with the goal of making the world group of the Davis Cup, and leaping ahead of Russia in the world of tennis power. So, with this being said, how will you feel if players who have no familial connection towards the country of Kazakhstan bring this country into the world group of the Davis Cup? Especially being they are playing Switzerland at home, without the services of Federer. Do you not care, or does this annoy you?

Discuss.

I don`t agree not only with those countries that "buy" players to represent another flag than the one that they were born (Under my opinion the ITF shouldn`t allow them to play DC) but there is a situation that is even worse that some develop countries that have a whole structure focused on tennis and the money to have their own players that have been giving "facilities" to players of non-developed countries to represent them which, under my opinion, is even worse than what Kazakhstan is doing.

gulzhan
09-18-2010, 06:55 PM
I don`t agree not only with those countries that "buy" players to represent another flag than the one that they were born (Under my opinion the ITF shouldn`t allow them to play DC)...

All those players were born in Soviet Union that was dissolved in 1992. Kazakstan was part of Soviet Union at the time of their birth. I don't see a problem with these players representing Kazakstan (except maybe Karatancheva). Same as with Davydenko who was born in Ukraine representing Russia. And with Likhovtseva who was born in Kazakstan representing Russia. I can give many more examples. The main point is-- we were one country for quite a long time and many people feel we are still partly united. Our country looks like Russia, feels like Russia, half of our population is Russian, we watch Russian TV and read Russian books, our culture is mixed with Russian culture more than you can imagine. There is no difference for an average Kazakstani citizen between Vinokurov in cycling, Smirnov in ski and Golubev in tennis.

And I saw faces of these guys today, you can't fake it-- they all-- Golubev, Schukin, Kukushkin, Korolev, were proud to represent Kazakstan.

Tipster13
09-18-2010, 08:42 PM
Fake team, i hate fake in sport.

tennis2tennis
09-18-2010, 08:45 PM
we're losing 3-0 to Kazakhstan......can we all agree that if Roger does win the DC it'd be a far bigger accomplishment than rafa's DC victory?

hyperren
09-18-2010, 09:07 PM
Well, the DC team of the Philippines is mainly comprised of two Filipino-Americans, one of whom (Cecil Mamiit) was competing as an American way back when, and even made the Top 100. I honestly don't think our country has the money to "buy" those players, but certainly giving these (let's face it) lower tier players an opportunity to compete in the DC gave them some incentive.

On one hand, it's a little sad that homegrown talent isn't representing our country at the DC. On the other hand, both Huey and Mamiit have been giving it 100% for the Philippines, and got us into Asia/Pacific Group I for this year (now we're fighting relegation, pah). Tennis isn't really a huge sport in the Philippines but if these guys can raise awareness of it a little, then maybe in the future we can develop some real home-grown talents (like our highly ranked juniors players, Alcantara and Patrombon).

So I don't really have a problem with Kazakhstan, I guess... it's good that another country has given them the support (and, I guess, funding) necessary to grow as players.

(Yeah, it's 4am here, sorry if this makes little to no sense, heh.)

fran70
09-18-2010, 09:14 PM
All those players were born in Soviet Union that was dissolved in 1992. Kazakstan was part of Soviet Union at the time of their birth. I don't see a problem with these players representing Kazakstan (except maybe Karatancheva). Same as with Davydenko who was born in Ukraine representing Russia. And with Likhovtseva who was born in Kazakstan representing Russia. I can give many more examples. The main point is-- we were one country for quite a long time and many people feel we are still partly united. Our country looks like Russia, feels like Russia, half of our population is Russian, we watch Russian TV and read Russian books, our culture is mixed with Russian culture more than you can imagine. There is no difference for an average Kazakstani citizen between Vinokurov in cycling, Smirnov in ski and Golubev in tennis.

And I saw faces of these guys today, you can't fake it-- they all-- Golubev, Schukin, Kukushkin, Korolev, were proud to represent Kazakstan.

Hi Gulzhan
I clear understand your opinion. To be honest especially in public you are a person whose opinion I clearly respect in this forum. I understand your position and I lived while the Soviet Union existed. So I understand what you mean. One of my best friends is ethnically Russian but lived in Uzbekistan so I know what u mean.

I prefer not to speak about political issues but to be honest I don`t like that a country get their players of different places, even considering political issues. But to be honest I am happy to see Kazakhstan in the main group of the world cup. And considering of Challenger tournaments that you hold I understand that you deserve an ATP tournament in your country :wavey:

fran70
09-18-2010, 09:16 PM
Fake team, i hate fake in sport.

Reality shallows and wisdom protects against ancient sorrows :)

Sapeod
09-18-2010, 09:19 PM
It's not really Kazakhstan.
The players are Russian, so Russia no.2 is reaching the world group, not Kazkahstan.

oranges
09-18-2010, 09:22 PM
I'd say good for them and congrats.

Helevorn
09-18-2010, 09:35 PM
It's not really Kazakhstan.
The players are Russian, so Russia no.2 is reaching the world group, not Kazkahstan.

indeed.

I mean, it would be like San Marino buying players from Italy and gaining victories in Davis Cup with them.. yes I live 50km near of San Marino and they speak italian but it's another country since the middle ages, if San Marino reached the world group with players like Starace or Bolelli it would be Italy winning, not San Marino.. the same goes for any other country, I don't care about Davis Cup but a Norwegian team with Swedish-born and Swedish-speaking players is a Swedish team.. even if some Norwegian tycoon buys them..

with methods like these even Andorra would reach the world group but I don't understand how Andorran guys would cheer for a player coming from Germany and playing under Andorra's flag. :lol:

if you're Russian you play with Russia or you don't play, and if you have 4 russian players in Kazakhstan is Russia and not Kazakhstan winning.

The Magician
09-18-2010, 09:46 PM
Absolute disgrace. Davis Cup isn't about some country buying good players, and it sure isn't about Nadull and the Spanish mugs winning every year. It's about players ranked in the 500s playing out of their mind for their country, like the Indian team yesterday. It's about players like Hyung Taik Lee carrying the team to the world group, or Isner taking one of the best clay courters to 5 sets in Serbia, or players who underachieved their whole career, like Nalbandian and Safin playing their best when it's for their country.

Kazahkstan is an absolute disgrace, and with the ranking points of DC and the Spanish mugs winning all the time DC is almost dead like tennis is dying. Only thing left will be Hopman cup and challengers :tape:

oranges
09-18-2010, 09:51 PM
Oh good, it's about Kazakh team, but you found a way to talk about Nadal again :retard:

Nathaliia
09-18-2010, 10:32 PM
I think we must differ two things. If we call them "Kazakh" we are ironic. They are all Russian and we all know about it. So do these players. They still call themselves Russian, they know very well who they are - and everybody does. We can call them "Kazakhstan representants" and nothing more.

Did you know Golubev declined Italian citizenship where he lived for so many years and declined a chance where he could travel without problems with EU passport (earlier, as Russian, he was DENIED a US visa for US Open Q!)? So, it's not really only about the money; it's clearly mentally easier for them to pick Kazakhstan.

If you listened to how they express themselves - they are happy they received a chance to have a peace of mind in their player development and they are happy they can give those people something back - the victories. They received a lot of good things (not really about the money again; they are being *cared* about... most sportmen like playing for people). It's not only about "we pay you 1 mln $ if you play under our flag" - there is really more into it, not only in financial dimension.

It much more resembles luring former colonies football players to countries like France or Holland (or Deco playing for Portugal) rather than Qatar buying Kenyan athletes or Turkey buying Ethiopian athletes.

We asked Igor Andreev today what he thought about the situation and he actually sounded enthusiastic, wishing his mates the best and hoping for a Russia vs. Kazakhstan final. He was following the tie and cheered on them. Last year when we asked Korolev about Schukin he also didn't see anything wrong about it, guys know and respect each other. Players don't really seem to have any problems about it - only MTF posters do.

borracho
09-18-2010, 11:51 PM
Wow, absolutely shocking to see people actually approving this. What a fucking disgrace this is lol. I would be insulted if the Dutch tennis federation would hire fucking russians because our players aren't good enough. Remeber earlier this year when Kazakhstan wanted 4 dutch speedskaters to represent them at the Olympics, which was refused for god's sake. Wtf is wrong with those people.

Same kind of discussion is going on in Holland right now. Dutch football federation want to nationalize a Brazilian defender. Disgrace. Won't support national team any longer if we start playing Brazilians.

borracho
09-18-2010, 11:58 PM
I think we must differ two things. If we call them "Kazakh" we are ironic. They are all Russian and we all know about it. So do these players. They still call themselves Russian, they know very well who they are - and everybody does. We can call them "Kazakhstan representants" and nothing more.

Did you know Golubev declined Italian citizenship where he lived for so many years and declined a chance where he could travel without problems with EU passport (earlier, as Russian, he was DENIED a US visa for US Open Q!)? So, it's not really only about the money; it's clearly mentally easier for them to pick Kazakhstan.

If you listened to how they express themselves - they are happy they received a chance to have a peace of mind in their player development and they are happy they can give those people something back - the victories. They received a lot of good things (not really about the money again; they are being *cared* about... most sportmen like playing for people). It's not only about "we pay you 1 mln $ if you play under our flag" - there is really more into it, not only in financial dimension.

It much more resembles luring former colonies football players to countries like France or Holland (or Deco playing for Portugal) rather than Qatar buying Kenyan athletes or Turkey buying Ethiopian athletes.

We asked Igor Andreev today what he thought about the situation and he actually sounded enthusiastic, wishing his mates the best and hoping for a Russia vs. Kazakhstan final. He was following the tie and cheered on them. Last year when we asked Korolev about Schukin he also didn't see anything wrong about it, guys know and respect each other. Players don't really seem to have any problems about it - only MTF posters do.

How would you like the Davis Cup if for example Nadal/Djokovic played for USA, Roddick/Federer for Spain, Davydenko/DelPotro for France and Ferrer/Verdaco for Ghana? Same as before?

sheva07
09-18-2010, 11:58 PM
Wow, absolutely shocking to see people actually approving this. What a fucking disgrace this is lol. I would be insulted if the Dutch tennis federation would hire fucking russians because our players aren't good enough. Remeber earlier this year when Kazakhstan wanted 4 dutch speedskaters to represent them at the Olympics, which was refused for god's sake. Wtf is wrong with those people.

Same kind of discussion is going on in Holland right now. Dutch football federation want to nationalize a Brazilian defender. Disgrace. Won't support national team any longer if we start playing Brazilians.

This.

Tipster13
09-19-2010, 12:40 AM
Wow, absolutely shocking to see people actually approving this. What a fucking disgrace this is lol. I would be insulted if the Dutch tennis federation would hire fucking russians because our players aren't good enough. Remeber earlier this year when Kazakhstan wanted 4 dutch speedskaters to represent them at the Olympics, which was refused for god's sake. Wtf is wrong with those people.

Same kind of discussion is going on in Holland right now. Dutch football federation want to nationalize a Brazilian defender. Disgrace. Won't support national team any longer if we start playing Brazilians.

This 100% true and dont need to write other posts !

Filo V.
09-19-2010, 12:58 AM
I'm surprised to hear Igor say that he has no issue with Kazakhstan, but that's good. I would think some of the experienced Russians may feel slighted. I know that Kazakhstani tennis officials have said they want Kazakhstan to leap above Russia in the tennis world. They want to turn Kazakhstan into a tennis elite. Also Korolev specifically has said he felt slighted by the Russian federation, and that they are not loyal to their players. I know WTA players like Kuznetsova and Petrova have had issues with Fed Cup and support given from the Russian federation. They are pouring a lot of money in particular sports in Kazakhstan, I've heard of them trying to buy athletes in other sports. Buying these players does enhance the attention tennis brings to the sport, because buying good Russians means good success, and good success will grow the sport and also bring more natural income, which will improve the facilities, more courts will be constructed, more and better coaches, and more opportunities all around, potential TV deals which will help the financial situation and so on. It grows the sport in countries it wasn't, and grows the sport into Asian markets.

But then you have to look at the loyalty and morality of it also, and there are some real concerns there.

There are two sides to most situations, but I still feel as if the Kazakhs have the final say. They certainly are excited to see their country at least near the top of the game in a sport as worldwide reaching as tennis, and a sport that is new in the limelight in their country, exciting times for them. If Kazakhs don't have an issue with it then I don't. And if anyone doesn't deserve blame, it's the players accepting these contracts to be transferred to Kazakhstan. Because, they are trying to make a living. And I can't knock them for doing what they need to do to be in the best situation possible.

Filo V.
09-19-2010, 01:06 AM
I don`t agree not only with those countries that "buy" players to represent another flag than the one that they were born (Under my opinion the ITF shouldn`t allow them to play DC) but there is a situation that is even worse that some develop countries that have a whole structure focused on tennis and the money to have their own players that have been giving "facilities" to players of non-developed countries to represent them which, under my opinion, is even worse than what Kazakhstan is doing.

That does happen a lot, especially in countries like Russia, Ukraine, mostly Asian/Eastern European countries. A lot of times these players will be transferred to the bigger country in exchange of money and other things. I mean, it's a part of the game, it's not ideal, but there are many countries that are wanting to develop their tennis programs but don't have the resources to make that happen. So they do things this "shifty" way. Cash rules everything around me, it's a phrase, but it's so true. If a country allows a young up and comer or one of their top talents to train and more or less represent another country in exchange of benefits that will improve their overall situation, it's hard to say no.

Caio_Brasil
09-19-2010, 01:19 AM
How would you like the Davis Cup if for example Nadal/Djokovic played for USA, Roddick/Federer for Spain, Davydenko/DelPotro for France and Ferrer/Verdaco for Ghana? Same as before?

Come on, those are totally different situations. This is really no point in this discussion.

I like to read opposite opinions of two persons from Kazakhstan. Personally I like Gulzhan's opinion the most hearing about how those guys feel about it.

Filo V.
09-19-2010, 01:46 AM
Looking good for them, I wonder what Rogers thoughts are...

I think he cares to some extent because I do think he wants to win a DC before he retires, but at the same time, I think he's clearly let it be known his personal career is more important to him, and he's not going to put himself in any undue risk. Roger played in Italy last year on clay after the Open final with a bad back and easily won his two matches, so he cares. The question is, will Stan continue with the situation, I wouldn't be surprised that he doesn't now. Because Switzerland is going to find it hard to even make it to WG playoff stage let alone get back in the WG. I think Roger is at the point in his mentality that Murray is in, where he'll play if and when the opportunity arises for them, but it's not a priority and he won't do it unless and until they show he doesn't have to be 100% relied on.

Action Jackson
09-19-2010, 04:22 AM
Russia number 2.

Action Jackson
09-19-2010, 04:23 AM
Same kind of discussion is going on in Holland right now. Dutch football federation want to nationalize a Brazilian defender. Disgrace. Won't support national team any longer if we start playing Brazilians.

That wouldn't be a problem as long he fulfilled the residential requirements.

fran70
09-19-2010, 11:48 AM
That does happen a lot, especially in countries like Russia, Ukraine, mostly Asian/Eastern European countries. A lot of times these players will be transferred to the bigger country in exchange of money and other things. I mean, it's a part of the game, it's not ideal, but there are many countries that are wanting to develop their tennis programs but don't have the resources to make that happen. So they do things this "shifty" way. Cash rules everything around me, it's a phrase, but it's so true. If a country allows a young up and comer or one of their top talents to train and more or less represent another country in exchange of benefits that will improve their overall situation, it's hard to say no.

That happens a lot as you well say but it doesn`t mean that I like or accept it, especially on team competitions.

borracho
09-19-2010, 05:14 PM
That wouldn't be a problem as long he fulfilled the residential requirements.

in 2 years

he will be entitled for a dutch passport. But I believe the only reason he'd want to play for us is to get his Premier League license. Further he admitted that he was really sick after Brazil lost to Holland in the WC QF, so clearly he's more Brazilian then Dutch.

If it was for the opportunisist, we would have had already 3 Brazilians in our team (Kalou, goalkeeper Gomes and now Douglas).

Action Jackson
09-19-2010, 05:24 PM
in 2 years

he will be entitled for a dutch passport. But I believe the only reason he'd want to play for us is to get his Premier League license. Further he admitted that he was really sick after Brazil lost to Holland in the WC QF, so clearly he's more Brazilian then Dutch.

If it was for the opportunisist, we would have had already 3 Brazilians in our team (Kalou, goalkeeper Gomes and now Douglas).

Can't do anything about it if he fulfills the residential requirements. It's not like Kazakhstan who don't ask for them to be based there.

Won't matter if he can do the job will it

out_here_grindin
03-03-2011, 06:34 PM
Let' see how the fare tomorrow. Korolev has turned into a failure so he is no longer relevant

shiaben
03-03-2011, 06:38 PM
I am kazakh. I feel no liking for these guys. They are foreigners and they know nothing about Kazakhstan.
I don't care if they win or if they lose. I don't mind it.

I agree with you on this.

Kazakhstan should be represented by ethnic Kazakhs or at least Russians that are Kazakh nationally because they have some affiliation with the nation.

But importing Russians from Ukraine, Russia, or the Russian diaspora, doesn't represent Kazakhstan quite well.

Sure they financially and nationally bring Kazakhstan to a global image, but the work being achieved isn't done by those that are nationally or ethnically Kazakh.

I agree with you.

shiaben
03-03-2011, 06:39 PM
For this reason, Davydenko, is also a douche bag, for representing Russia, not Ukraine. If I was born somewhere, I would represent that nation, even if they were to go nowhere. Pride has more value than financial success in my eyes.

Henry Chinaski
03-03-2011, 07:34 PM
Wow, absolutely shocking to see people actually approving this. What a fucking disgrace this is lol. I would be insulted if the Dutch tennis federation would hire fucking russians because our players aren't good enough. Remeber earlier this year when Kazakhstan wanted 4 dutch speedskaters to represent them at the Olympics, which was refused for god's sake. Wtf is wrong with those people.

Same kind of discussion is going on in Holland right now. Dutch football federation want to nationalize a Brazilian defender. Disgrace. Won't support national team any longer if we start playing Brazilians.

half the dutch football team was from surinam once.

Pea
03-03-2011, 07:35 PM
There's at least something good that could come out of this. With the success maybe ethnic Kazaks can get more interested in tennis and produce some great players.

Henry Chinaski
03-03-2011, 07:47 PM
yes this could be considered an investment as long as the grass roots are not neglected. No point getting kids interested if they have no courts or coaches.

I guess Gulzhan would have a better idea.

If money is diverted away from underage structures to pay for Korolev etc then it's just shameless egoism and criminal neglect on the part of the kazakh federation

FormerRafaFan
03-03-2011, 08:27 PM
I wouldn't like it, but at the same time.. what can you do? nothing. So we kinda have to accept it. We don't have any other choice.

Jacques_Ukraine
03-03-2011, 08:58 PM
yes this could be considered an investment as long as the grass roots are not neglected. No point getting kids interested if they have no courts or coaches.

I guess Gulzhan would have a better idea.

If money is diverted away from underage structures to pay for Korolev etc then it's just shameless egoism and criminal neglect on the part of the kazakh federation

Nobody said that buying a few players and tennis popularization through national DC team is ONLY a little part of a huge program of tennis development. As I read they built hundreds of courts and attracted thousands children into tennis. So, in 10-15 years they will have a good new team formed from native Kazakhstan citizens

Nathaliia
03-03-2011, 09:14 PM
Yes, there is a huge pro tennis program in Kazakhstan; together with buying a few players they selected the first group of kids; born in 1994-95, and these kids practise in new objects with the coaches. Some coaches from Poland also found the job in Kazakhstan. They're really serious about it.

As for the Dutch poster so outraged, good it was reminded him about how many players from Surinam represented Holland. People from other countries totally don't have a clue (yet they would have opinion for the sake of having opinion); but for these players from former USSR switching one USSR country to another is like going to a second home and it's not really a huge deal for them, how many times does it need to be said.

I do understand Dana who is a native Kazakh that she would like to have other native Kazakhs in the team, and obviously successful, but it's another touchy topic since in this country the native Kazakh majority is reigned by a Russian speaking minority (which is large anyway). From what I know, even in the mentioned selection of children to the program better chances were given to the Russian as 1st language speaking ones.

Baghdatis#1
03-04-2011, 02:18 AM
I hate their DC team. I have no respect for them, sorry :sad:

thegreendestiny
03-04-2011, 06:32 AM
Nothing wrong with that. Kazakhstan is no stranger to Russia. It's like German players playing for Liechtenstein. Who's representing Russian DC team lately? Not all of them are Russians since we know there is a Ukranian and a Georgian. :shrug:

Filo V.
03-06-2011, 07:42 PM
My attitude hasn't really changed about this in terms of the players doing what they feel necessary, but the fact they are going to stay in the WG it appears upsets me. I don't want them in the WG over teams with players from that actual country. And, Czech Republic is Czech Republic. Just a better team in general. So I can't say I'm happy about them anymore.

fran70
03-07-2011, 12:29 PM
I don`t like players (not only in tennis) that were born and build up as tennis players to start representing a new flag in an international competition. That not only concerns in the case of Kazakhstan but for example in former years with Navratilova that played for US flag or Rusedski for UK.

Just check the case of Russia : Golubev, Schukin, Kukushkin and Korolev representing Kazakhstan; Istomin representing Uzbekistan; Zitak representing New Zealand. They are just some names that come to my mind now that were born and build up their tennis in Russia and moved to play for other flags.

I think that there are certain cases like the ones mentioned where the ITF should forbid them to represent a different flag.

OnyxRose
03-07-2011, 05:38 PM
I don`t like players (not only in tennis) that were born and build up as tennis players to start representing a new flag in an international competition. That not only concerns in the case of Kazakhstan but for example in former years with Navratilova that played for US flag or Rusedski for UK.

Just check the case of Russia : Golubev, Schukin, Kukushkin and Korolev representing Kazakhstan; Istomin representing Uzbekistan; Zitak representing New Zealand. They are just some names that come to my mind now that were born and build up their tennis in Russia and moved to play for other flags.

I think that there are certain cases like the ones mentioned where the ITF should forbid them to represent a different flag.

I don't understand how you can group Navratilova in with the others. She defected to the U.S. Of course she's going to play for the U.S.

abraxas21
03-07-2011, 05:55 PM
people talk about this as if only the kazakhstan does it. didn't the yanks buy an argie last year? didn't britain try to buy novak djokovic's younger brother in the past?

the kazakhs are more efficient, that's all.

elena_k
03-07-2011, 08:35 PM
I would not mind if they had a real connection to the country for example they have been living there for over 5 year or 1 of their parents was from Kazakhstan. But this is not the case which is quite annoying.

abraxas21
03-07-2011, 09:06 PM
and it's more annoying when they beat your own team, isn't it?

Certinfy
03-07-2011, 10:07 PM
They have one hell of a team though :lol:

I don't really know though, it seems wrong in a way but who really cares, at least these mugs are proving that they're better than the Russians :rolls: Korolev, Kukushkin, and Golubev all seem like cool guys anyway so I'm cool with it :) To be fair at least they're getting the spotlight for 'their' country, whereas if they all played for Russia no one would really care.

Nixer
03-07-2011, 10:26 PM
I don`t like players (not only in tennis) that were born and build up as tennis players to start representing a new flag in an international competition. That not only concerns in the case of Kazakhstan but for example in former years with Navratilova that played for US flag or Rusedski for UK.

Just check the case of Russia : Golubev, Schukin, Kukushkin and Korolev representing Kazakhstan; Istomin representing Uzbekistan; Zitak representing New Zealand. They are just some names that come to my mind now that were born and build up their tennis in Russia and moved to play for other flags.

I think that there are certain cases like the ones mentioned where the ITF should forbid them to represent a different flag.

to be fair, Istomin has never played in any tournament under russian flag, you can't say that he's a traitor or something, and his residence is in Uzbekistan.. his decision was probably made not because of money (at least not directly - like Kazakhstan)
Sitak it's spelled ;)

tennisfan856
03-07-2011, 10:31 PM
It's like Rusedski trying to be British, doesn't fit in right with people.

alfonsojose
03-07-2011, 10:39 PM
Well, DC is a joke. Tennis is a "one guy" sport. I don't want fugly stuff of team/national sports in tennis

fran70
03-07-2011, 10:48 PM
Davis Cup is a team competition of players representing their countries. And I don`t find it interesting to see a country "buying" players to represent them because they can`t produce them. Put the name that you like : Kazakhstan, , UK, Argentina, USA, Australia or Congo. It doesn`t matter.
If there is a player that had grown up his tennis in one country shouldn`t be allowed to represent a new flag. This is the same that you can see on other sports and that really sucks.

ExcaliburII
03-07-2011, 11:22 PM
If my nation, would buy players I would stop supporting them. Id rather die in group IV playing against Antartica than win Davis Cup with foreigners.

fran70
03-07-2011, 11:46 PM
If my nation, would buy players I would stop supporting them. Id rather die in group IV playing against Antartica than win Davis Cup with foreigners.

:worship: I remember in the 90ties when Argentina was in Zone 1 and 2 that I even went to see Argentina playing DC in Mayling Country Club and there were no more than 50 people attending it. At least they were Argentinians born players ;)

ExcaliburII
03-08-2011, 12:09 AM
:worship: I remember in the 90ties when Argentina was in Zone 1 and 2 that I even went to see Argentina playing DC in Mayling Country Club and there were no more than 50 people attending it. At least they were Argentinians born players ;)
Actually we never went to group 2, but we played some playoffs to mantain group I America's zone. And we even had decent players, like Puerta, Canas, Gumy, Frana, etc.

tennisfan856
03-08-2011, 12:09 AM
I just hope the trend doesn't grow.

"I'll take Milos Raonic for $1000, Alex." - Obradovic

fran70
03-08-2011, 12:15 AM
Actually we never went to group 2, but we played some playoffs to mantain group I America's zone. And we even had decent players, like Puerta, Canas, Gumy, Frana, etc.

I didnt remember it exactly. As you can see fortunately it was some time ago ;)

BlueSoul Formula
03-08-2011, 02:04 AM
Well, DC is a joke. Tennis is a "one guy" sport. I don't want fugly stuff of team/national sports in tennis

This is pure an uncensored nonsense. There should be warnings on posts like this beofre you read them. The Davis Cup offfers fans from all over the world a unique chance to bind and tie themselves to one another. The can share the same ideals, the same flesh as they root for an athlete who shares their flesh. This is why the Kazakhstan situation is not in the correct spirit of Davis Cup. The players who bolted for money have forced their fans to pull for them based not on flesh but based on a paper substance that has been decided is worth something.

Ivanatis
03-12-2011, 05:22 PM
can't blame the Russian players for taking a shitload of money here; guys probably don't have a high amount of patriotism and that's perfectly fine, I wouldn't do differently

the real evil is the Kazakh tennis federation; instead of building decent training possibilities they rely on mercenaries for short-term success; not a great fan of the Argentine team either, but I hope they'll bagel them in the QFs

but then again, DC has lost a lot of it's prestige anyway, so wayne..

Tommy_Vercetti
03-12-2011, 05:30 PM
How does this work anyway?

Is it like a Milorad Cavic situation where the athlete is born, raised, educated and trained in one country, but they have parents with Kazak ancestry that lets them qualify to play for them? And they accept it because it is much easier for them to get selected and not have to go through all the qualification stuff? Or are their parents Russian and just become Kazak citizens for cash and support? Like say Becky Hammon for the Russian basketball team.

Nixer
03-12-2011, 05:54 PM
How does this work anyway?

Is it like a Milorad Cavic situation where the athlete is born, raised, educated and trained in one country, but they have parents with Kazak ancestry that lets them qualify to play for them? And they accept it because it is much easier for them to get selected and not have to go through all the qualification stuff? Or are their parents Russian and just become Kazak citizens for cash and support? Like say Becky Hammon for the Russian basketball team.

yep, the second one.. but they were not bought, but hired for a limited amount of time, i think

Tommy_Vercetti
03-12-2011, 10:03 PM
Yeah, that's the same kind of stuff that makes the Olympics a joke.

duong
03-12-2011, 10:25 PM
Anyway, I've seen Kukushkin play against Hajek in Davis Cup and he was hyper-excited and looked much for the support of the Kazakh public :worship:

Golubev had such good results that I guess the same for him.

I was very impressed about that.

I even wondered : how much do they receive in case they win to be so motivated ? does anybody know by the way ? ;)

But well I hadn't seen this thread and now I read Gulzhan and Nathaliia who say that these players are very happy with the Kazakhs and so on, then I guess it may be an answer why they are so motivated about that, more than many other "native" players :lol:

oranges
03-12-2011, 10:39 PM
yep, the second one.. but they were not bought, but hired for a limited amount of time, i think

I doubt it. Don't think you can change your citizenship back and forth as you desire ;)

duong
03-12-2011, 10:53 PM
I doubt it. Don't think you can change your citizenship back and forth as you desire ;)

Did they change their citizenship ? lost Russian one or double nationality or still only Russian ?

Nixer
03-12-2011, 10:58 PM
I doubt it. Don't think you can change your citizenship back and forth as you desire ;)

well, that's what Tarpischev said in an interview some time ago.. that they basically signed a contract for 3 years (not sure about all of them, cause he was talking mainly about Korolev)

oranges
03-12-2011, 11:11 PM
Did they change their citizenship ? lost Russian one or double nationality or still only Russian ?

As far as I know, you can't play for any national teams without citizenship. If you're going to represent a country, you have to have it. Thought it's common sense, rather than first hand knowledge in this particular instance. Of course, they could indeed have dual citizenship, in which case I guess they could switch back after a while which country they represent, at least nominally :shrug: BTW, in that case it would really be a circus, rent-a-tennis player business :lol:

Nixer
03-12-2011, 11:17 PM
well, that's what Tarpischev said in an interview some time ago.. that they basically signed a contract for 3 years (not sure about all of them, cause he was talking mainly about Korolev)

sorry about that info, i looked at my russian tennis forum, it was not Tarpischev who said that, but some other knowing source... also written, sums paid vary from 50 to 200 thousand euros. Player's monthly wage is 3-4+ thousand euros and bonuses for rating and other stuff. They have contracts (3 years, with possibility of prolongation) - so they have to play in DC, FC, HC, Kazakhstan championships, do some master-classes in the country.

duong
03-13-2011, 12:04 AM
As far as I know, you can't play for any national teams without citizenship. If you're going to represent a country, you have to have it. Thought it's common sense, rather than first hand knowledge in this particular instance. Of course, they could indeed have dual citizenship, in which case I guess they could switch back after a while which country they represent, at least nominally :shrug: BTW, in that case it would really be a circus, rent-a-tennis player business :lol:

in rugby you can play for a country without having their citizenship (for instance newzealanders playing for British countries)