what if knee tendinitis had not derailed rafa last summer? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

what if knee tendinitis had not derailed rafa last summer?

anticaria
09-14-2010, 02:11 PM
he would've likely completed not just his golden career slam at last year's uso, but he'd have won the even rarer calendar grand slam in '09.. and he might have even won another calendar grand slam this year as well, for a tally of 13 majors..

you cannot underestimate how disastrous that bout of tendinitis and its aftershocks last spring-summer and well into the fall and the early part of '10 were in delaying the onset of rafa's all surface peak..

it is simply staggering to contemplate that, at the age of 24, rafa could've won not one but two calendar grand slams..

seems fitting though.. rafa stopped roger from 2 consecutive calendar grand slams in '06 and '07.. and tendinitis may have stopped rafa from the same consecutive calendar feat in '09 and '10..

that's the amazing talent rafa embodies.. as it stands, at the start of his all-surface peak (first time he's reached all slam finals), he already has 9 majors under his belt..

just as a comparative reference, consider the fact that, at the same time in his career (first time he reached all slam finals), roger had only won 7 majors.. which means roger won the bulk of his majors (9, to be exact) after he'd reached his all-surface peak at the '06 french open..

this of course would suggest, given rafa's chronological edge over roger at the same age, that rafa could potentially win another 10-12 majors after 2010..

scary proposition indeed and i suspect roger's tally of 16 slams will not remain unchallenged as long as pete's did, for rafa doesn't even have to win 10-12 more majors to do that.. all he needs is 8 more to surpass him..

roger of course could win one more major perhaps but even that would be highly unlikely at his current rate.. and even with a tally of 17, it still would not be outside rafa's reach..

can rafa pull it off?

Topspindoctor
09-14-2010, 02:15 PM
My main beef with 2009 was RG, 'cause I prefer it over any other slam. In my opinion Rafa really robbed himself of RG2009 with poor scheduling, playing all those HC tournaments, playing ALL clay events etc. So while it's hard to say whether he would win W2009 or USO2009, RG was practically a lock for him and he really let it go through his fingers. :sad: He'd have 10 slams now - and that's a conservative estimate...

FormerRafaFan
09-14-2010, 02:17 PM
I was just thinking about this today "what if Rafa hadn't had the knee issues last year.." The thing is though, what happened happen. We will never know. He might have won more titles, he might have not won any at all. I think today is just a day we should cherish and celebrate his wonderful win in USO yesterday and his career grand slam. We shouldn't think about what could have been..

azinna
09-14-2010, 02:21 PM
It's too much to wonder if Rafa would be on a calendar or grand slam run without the knee issues. But I agree with topspinmd that RG '09 would likely have been his if his schedule had been sensible (as it is now). And Federer, himself, would have remained without that clay slam.

That's as far as I would go.

Priam
09-14-2010, 02:28 PM
We'll never know. You know it probably turned out to be a blessing in disguise for him. He practiced harder and came back stronger/hungrier. His hard work really paid off this year.

No excuses though for RG+Wimby, Federer deserved it as much.

Action Jackson
09-14-2010, 02:33 PM
Stop gloating.

What if your mother was born a male.

guptaji
09-14-2010, 02:35 PM
OP, you're going a little overboard with your what-if scenario. He couldn't have won CYGS in 2009. Look at how he was outplayed by Delpo in USO - there's no way he could've beaten Delpo in 2009 with the way he was playing on hard courts.

My answer to your what-if is that he would have won RG - and that's huge because then Fed wouldn't have completed career GS.

Everyone seems to think that he is a lock for Wimby every year but that's just not true.

guptaji
09-14-2010, 02:37 PM
Stop gloating.

What if your mother was born a male.

Always surprises me that you're a mod. Isn't it your "job" to promote discussion? I guess not.

Orka_n
09-14-2010, 02:41 PM
Always surprises me that you're a mod. Isn't it your "job" to promote discussion? I guess not.Firstly, no, that is not a moderator's job. Secondly, this thread is pointless and anticaria is only trying to initiate a discussion that's already going on in at least 10 threads in GM right now. :shrug:

Action Jackson
09-14-2010, 02:43 PM
Always surprises me that you're a mod. Isn't it your "job" to promote discussion? I guess not.

I am not a mod here on GM, if I was then stuff like this wouldn't see the light of day.

Second of all it's a nonsense thread and orka highlighted why. It's just an excuse to gloat about Nadal, when there is no need for it.

guptaji
09-14-2010, 02:45 PM
Secondly, this thread is pointless and anticaria is only trying to initiate a discussion that's already going on in at least 10 threads in GM right now. :shrug:

.. which is true for most threads on MTF. People come here for redundant discussions. Why? Because they're nuts about tennis. There aren't a whole lot of "new" things to discuss about a 3 hour tennis match.

Orka_n
09-14-2010, 03:03 PM
.. which is true for most threads on MTF. People come here for redundant discussions. Why? Because they're nuts about tennis. There aren't a whole lot of "new" things to discuss about a 3 hour tennis match.You do realize that you're not making any sense? Firstly, NO, normally there aren't 15 threads in GM about the same subject, as there is right now.
Secondly, actually, every tennis match is unique. Like in every other sport. That's why we find it entertaining.
Thirdly, no, most Rafatards are not nuts about tennis. They're only nuts about Nadal. I doubt they even watch matches when the top 5 are not playing.

Silvester
09-14-2010, 03:11 PM
What if Federer did not get Mono? what if Federer did not have back issues? Would he be at 20 slams?

guptaji
09-14-2010, 03:15 PM
You do realize that you're not making any sense? Firstly, NO, normally there aren't 15 threads in GM about the same subject, as there is right now. They have always been there. You didn't notice the redundancy before (say, 2009) because they were about your favorite guy.

nastoff
09-14-2010, 04:27 PM
Roger still has mono, that is the problem.

What if ? Nadal would probably be at 10 majors but would he have won the US Open? Federer would have been at 14, he should thank his lucky stars.
Though with Federer it doesn't look like he cares much...didn't care about breaking the Wimbledon record, didn't care about getting the record for most weeks at number one, what else is there to care?

He won't care about Nadal breaking his records, all he cares about is his millions and his sponsors...it's obvious.

He's more worried about fading out completely and losing the sponsors, though they still seem to be behind him...for now.
That's the only reason he's trying, everything else he feels he has accomplished.

His later years are no short of embarassment.

anticaria
09-14-2010, 04:35 PM
My main beef with 2009 was RG, 'cause I prefer it over any other slam. In my opinion Rafa really robbed himself of RG2009 with poor scheduling, playing all those HC tournaments, playing ALL clay events etc. So while it's hard to say whether he would win W2009 or USO2009, RG was practically a lock for him and he really let it go through his fingers. :sad: He'd have 10 slams now - and that's a conservative estimate...

10 majors by now on the conservative side would be my guess as well.. the question now is, now that rafa's reached his peak maturity on all slam surfaces, will he be able to win the 8 more needed to clinch the all-time slam record?

again, roger had only won 7 majors at the equivalent time (the first time he reached the finals at all 4 slams) and yet he went on to win 9 more after that.. while rafa, with 9 already under his belt, only has 8 to go to surpass the swiss.. i think it's entirely doable for rafa.. that would entail winning 2 majors a year for the next 4 years on the conservative side or 3 more years on a slightly more ambitious but totally doable timeframe:

2011: aussie open, roland garros, wimbledon, us open = 4 <-- rafa's best shot to win the 'calendar' slam

2012: roland garros, wimbledon = 2

2013: roland garros, wimbledon = 2 <-- record slam tally reached

2014 and beyond = pure gravy

nastoff
09-14-2010, 04:35 PM
maskedmuffin your hate towards Nadal is silly, better look back at how fed played like a pussy in the closing stages against Djokovic...as he did with Del Potro last year. If he wanted a "cushion" of titles he should have won those matches and get to defend his title. It'd be glad if Nadal or anyboy else for that matter broke all his records now.

Nadal did what he had to do, Federer didn't ...for the nth time in the last couple of years.

swisht4u
09-14-2010, 04:46 PM
What if Federer did not get Mono? what if Federer did not have back issues? Would he be at 20 slams?

True, Fed could of had a few more and so could of many players.
Sometimes the forehand isn't working, their tired or sore, have minor injuries where they can't play their best.

jcempire
09-14-2010, 04:59 PM
Yes, that's more likey to happen if tendinitis had not derailed rafa last summer?

But whatever happen that's happened. and that was Not bad for Nadal to a break in last summer

GO Nadal. I seen No 17 Slam

Orka_n
09-14-2010, 05:33 PM
They have always been there. You didn't notice the redundancy before (say, 2009) because they were about your favorite guy.Oh, really? :lol:

anticaria
09-14-2010, 07:11 PM
True, Fed could of had a few more and so could of many players.
Sometimes the forehand isn't working, their tired or sore, have minor injuries where they can't play their best.

if you knew anything about tennis or about knee injuries in general, you would know knee tendinitis is infinitely more debilitating than mere garden variety aches and pains or an 'off day'..

stop trying to trivialize knee tendinitis.. there's nothing minor about it..

i don't think players routinely decide to pull out of wimbledon just because of everyday aches and pains..

anticaria
09-14-2010, 07:15 PM
They have always been there. You didn't notice the redundancy before (say, 2009) because they were about your favorite guy.

bingo! we have a winner.. :clap2:

Henry Kaspar
09-14-2010, 07:17 PM
What if Federer wouldn't have had mono in 2008? What if Borg wouldn't have retired prematurely? What if Hewitt wouldn't have had chronic heatlh issues with his hips from early on?

This stuff only gets you that far.

Fed Fan
09-14-2010, 07:21 PM
Nadal's knee problems is a false argument. Would Nadal be as quick around the court if he were not so aggressive in how he runs? Would Nadal have got to number one as soon as he did without playing so many tournaments? I'm not so sure. As a tennis player, you make decisions about your game that will make you better at some things and worse at others. If you choose to use a semi-western grip, you're obviously going to have a better topspin forehand, which could potentially make you a better clay-courter but a less dangerous hardcourt player. Or, if you choose a smaller grip size to get more spin, you do so knowing you increase your chances of developing arm injuries. At the end of the day, Nadal and his team have decided to play a particular brand of tennis and they have to take the rough with the smooth. Nadal's knee problems are self-inflicted and always a risk by playing tennis how he does. They are not in the same category as injuries caused by accidents or illnesses.

swisht4u
09-14-2010, 07:33 PM
if you knew anything about tennis or about knee injuries in general, you would know knee tendinitis is infinitely more debilitating than mere garden variety aches and pains or an 'off day'..

stop trying to trivialize knee tendinitis.. there's nothing minor about it..

i don't think players routinely decide to pull out of wimbledon just because of everyday aches and pains..

So he missed a tournament, it happens.
Fed had back problems, mono, that's the way it goes.
The end result is you don't play as well as you could, and Rafa hasn't had a harder time than the average player with injuries.
Many basketball players have this problem, Michael Jordan for instance, and played some of their best games with it.
Not a big deal, he only has to manage it properly.

anticaria
09-14-2010, 08:01 PM
So he missed a tournament, it happens.
Fed had back problems, mono, that's the way it goes.
The end result is you don't play as well as you could, and Rafa hasn't had a harder time than the average player with injuries.
Many basketball players have this problem, Michael Jordan for instance, and played some of their best games with it.
Not a big deal, he only has to manage it properly.


i would never call suffering from chronic tendinitis 'no big deal'.. it can be managed, yes.. but even with expert management, there are far too many intangible factors which could reaggravate the injury, that it becomes quite a balancing act.. and if there's a slip up, the consequences can be absolutely disastrous.. i.e., not something to be taken lightly..

btw.. although he just missed wimbledon, the nagging struggles with lack of confidence and match toughness lasted until the spring of this year.. that's one heck of a slump..

Pirata.
09-14-2010, 08:34 PM
At least Roger and Rafa can cope with their injuries.

Look at players like Ferrero, Hewitt, Nalbandian, Ancic. Extremely talented but severely sidelined with constant injuries. The first three at least won big events (slams and/or YEC) but poor Mario has been screwed for life.

Yes, Rafa's knee tendinitis and Roger's mono suck. But at least they were able to overcome their problems and keep on wining. Can't say the same for a lot of these remarkably talented but extremely unlucky guys :sad:

swisht4u
09-14-2010, 09:03 PM
i would never call suffering from chronic tendinitis 'no big deal'.. it can be managed, yes.. but even with expert management, there are far too many intangible factors which could reaggravate the injury, that it becomes quite a balancing act.. and if there's a slip up, the consequences can be absolutely disastrous.. i.e., not something to be taken lightly..

btw.. although he just missed wimbledon, the nagging struggles with lack of confidence and match toughness lasted until the spring of this year.. that's one heck of a slump..

Nadal does have to watch how much he plays and not overdo it, he does have to balance his schedule. Most players get caught in this balancing act sooner or later, that's the only way they can find their limits. Once they have a good idea then they best streamline their schedule.

There is one brightside to Nadal's knee problem, it will force him to cut back his schedule leaving him rested more often. Good for the knees and good for the body.

dombrfc
09-14-2010, 09:07 PM
What if Fed played his 2006 form through to this day?

What if Rajeev Ram was amazingly good at tennis?

selyoink
09-14-2010, 10:52 PM
Del Potro still would've beat the shit out of Nadull who was healthy by the way. Of course when he loses he has to make up some bullshit excuse.

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
09-14-2010, 11:04 PM
nadal wasn't as tired as is made out

federer beat him at madrid fair and square

and that day at RG, soderling played lights out tennis

we all know that nadal can be blown off any court when a big hitter is hot

fed never had that problem

SheepleBuster
09-14-2010, 11:08 PM
Nadal is a ticking time bomb. His leg will get injured again with his style of play. Trust me!

guga2120
09-14-2010, 11:25 PM
Nadal is a ticking time bomb. His leg will get injured again with his style of play. Trust me!

Give Roger a chance to win again.

anticaria
09-14-2010, 11:33 PM
Del Potro still would've beat the shit out of Nadull who was healthy by the way. Of course when he loses he has to make up some bullshit excuse.

please.. lol delpo would've gotten killed just like nole did in last night's final..

anticaria
09-14-2010, 11:36 PM
nadal wasn't as tired as is made out

federer beat him at madrid fair and square

and that day at RG, soderling played lights out tennis

we all know that nadal can be blown off any court when a big hitter is hot

fed never had that problem


yeah.. and nole was playing lights out last night too before that 4th set.. his problem was he was so 'hot' he burned himself out trying.. :devil:

no one is blowing this new-and-improved rafa off the court anytime soon.. that's all ancient history now..

SheepleBuster
09-14-2010, 11:40 PM
Give Roger a chance to win again.

Just like Delpo gave one to Nadal. haha

Ozone
09-14-2010, 11:41 PM
What if I won the lottery?

Mjau!
09-14-2010, 11:55 PM
Federer might have won AO -08 and -09 if it wasn't for mono and that back injury.

Perhaps neither half of Fedal would have their precious career slam.

selyoink
09-15-2010, 01:14 AM
please.. lol delpo would've gotten killed just like nole did in last night's final..

This statement proves you know nothing about tennis.

Topspindoctor
09-15-2010, 02:02 AM
This statement proves you know nothing about tennis.

Actually, you're wrong. Del Potro is basically male version of Sharapova. One dimensional brainless ball bashing. Very hard to beat when in the zone, but looks pathetic when he's not "on". Will never ever truly dominate the game, but might win another slam or two.

SheepleBuster
09-15-2010, 02:32 AM
Actually, you're wrong. Del Potro is basically male version of Sharapova. One dimensional brainless ball bashing. Very hard to beat when in the zone, but looks pathetic when he's not "on". Will never ever truly dominate the game, but might win another slam or two.

Seriously stop before you hurt yourself. Novak has never beaten Rafa in a 3 out of 5 sets match. Last night was not different. The guy is always ill for some reason. On the other hand, Del Potro should have been arrested for what he did to Rafa last year. That was insulting and quite criminal. The triple bagel deuce he shoved down the fraudal's throat.

Filo V.
09-15-2010, 02:33 AM
We will never know the answer to this question. No if, and's, butt's or what if's in tennis. One can always dream that he would have dominated then, but we will never know.

Topspindoctor
09-15-2010, 02:38 AM
Seriously stop before you hurt yourself. Novak has never beaten Rafa in a 3 out of 5 sets match. Last night was not different. The guy is always ill for some reason. On the other hand, Del Potro should have been arrested for what he did to Rafa last year. That was insulting and quite criminal. The triple bagel deuce he shoved down the fraudal's throat.

Considering Nadal couldn't serve and had no confidence to play aggressive and Del Potro was hot I am not surprised at the result. Like I said earlier, let's see Del Potro come back with his shattered wrist and beat confident, better serving Nadal on a big stage. It will be a rout just like in 2009, only reversed :wavey:

anticaria
09-15-2010, 02:57 AM
Seriously stop before you hurt yourself. Novak has never beaten Rafa in a 3 out of 5 sets match. Last night was not different. The guy is always ill for some reason. On the other hand, Del Potro should have been arrested for what he did to Rafa last year. That was insulting and quite criminal. The triple bagel deuce he shoved down the fraudal's throat.


let the excuses flow... :haha:

mystery illness, global warming, it's bush's fault.. zzzzzzzzzzzzz :cuckoo: :devil:

allpro
09-15-2010, 03:01 AM
maskedmuffin your hate towards Nadal is silly, better look back at how fed played like a pussy in the closing stages against Djokovic...as he did with Del Potro last year. If he wanted a "cushion" of titles he should have won those matches and get to defend his title. It'd be glad if Nadal or anyboy else for that matter broke all his records now.

Nadal did what he had to do, Federer didn't ...for the nth time in the last couple of years.

excellent post.


Roger still has mono, that is the problem.

:haha:

anticaria
09-15-2010, 03:03 AM
Actually, you're wrong. Del Potro is basically male version of Sharapova. One dimensional brainless ball bashing. Very hard to beat when in the zone, but looks pathetic when he's not "on". Will never ever truly dominate the game, but might win another slam or two.

topspin, are you seriously expecting selyoink to grasp 'common sense'? lol good luck.. but you'd have better luck teaching a chimp to play tennis.. :D

The Magician
09-15-2010, 03:48 AM
topspin, are you seriously expecting selyoink to grasp 'common sense'? lol good luck.. but you'd have better luck teaching a chimp to play tennis.. :D

Worked pretty well for uncle Tony :o

Also, try using caps and logic behind your paragraphs, I couldn't have read the OP even if I wanted to :rolleyes: Just because Nadull can barely speak english doesn't mean you should be the same :wavey:

tribalfusion
09-15-2010, 03:54 AM
Just because Nadull can barely speak english doesn't mean you should be the same :wavey:

How many languages do you speak fluently by the way?

SheepleBuster
09-15-2010, 03:59 AM
How many languages do you speak fluently by the way?

I am starting to think that just like Anderson Silva, Nadal can speak English but he doesn't to get better treatment from the media and fans. We all know that the Spanish are floppers in the NBA and La Liga and Champions Leage. Just like Sergio Bousquet, David Villa, and all these floppers. What makes you think Nadal is different

The Magician
09-15-2010, 04:03 AM
How many languages do you speak fluently by the way?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT9v7cEiJiQ

I speak about 20 languages better than this, all it takes is a dictionary :haha:

tribalfusion
09-15-2010, 05:19 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT9v7cEiJiQ

I speak about 20 languages better than this, all it takes is a dictionary :haha:

Why don't you just tell me one language you speak for starters where you can do interviews on camera?

The internet is full of experts who talk tough but who wet themselves when put to the test.

tribalfusion
09-15-2010, 05:19 AM
I am starting to think that just like Anderson Silva, Nadal can speak English but he doesn't to get better treatment from the media and fans

You two are a funny team.

@Sweet Cleopatra
09-15-2010, 07:58 AM
RG loss in 2009 made Nadal the best in 2010, he prepared very well for all Grand slams, focused on majors and important matches. At the end the loss in 2009 and the injury time out made Rafa the champion we saw in 2010.

anticaria
09-15-2010, 01:30 PM
RG loss in 2009 made Nadal the best in 2010, he prepared very well for all Grand slams, focused on majors and important matches. At the end the loss in 2009 and the injury time out made Rafa the champion we saw in 2010.

i understand that.. i just wish the tendinitis had at least hit right after wimbledon.. again, i'd have preferred rafa had at least won his 5th-consecutive french open and sealed that record over borg and perhaps even won wimbledon as well, though the crucial thing would've been clinching his 5th-consecutive in paris.. then he could've just sat out the us open, which he was not gonna win last year anyway.. in the end, rafa had to hit that wall sooner or later as he needed to learn his 'over-scheduling' lesson one way or another..

anticaria
09-15-2010, 03:04 PM
Roger still has mono, that is the problem.

What if ? Nadal would probably be at 10 majors but would he have won the US Open? Federer would have been at 14, he should thank his lucky stars.
Though with Federer it doesn't look like he cares much...didn't care about breaking the Wimbledon record, didn't care about getting the record for most weeks at number one, what else is there to care?

He won't care about Nadal breaking his records, all he cares about is his millions and his sponsors...it's obvious.

He's more worried about fading out completely and losing the sponsors, though they still seem to be behind him...for now.
That's the only reason he's trying, everything else he feels he has accomplished.

His later years are no short of embarassment.


yup.. it appears fed's merely happy to live off his 'former' glory these days.. no drive left.. and he appears all too happy to 'avoid' facing rafa in slam finals these days and for all the obvious reasons.. and i'm sure the prospect of him falling behind rafa 7:15 lifetime and 2:7 at the majors is especially unappealing to him at this point.. :devil: