Quickest & slowest players between service points at US Open [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Quickest & slowest players between service points at US Open

Henry Chinaski
09-10-2010, 01:48 PM
some stats from the Wall Street Journal:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704644404575481732927534288.html#a rticleTabs%3Darticle


You've Been Served

We measured the time it took 54 players to take their first serve during the U.S. Open and came up with who were the fastest and slowest, on average.*
--THE SLOWEST--
MALE PLAYER Avg. Serve Time Avg. # of Bounces
1 Rafael Nadal 29s 15
2 Paul-Henri Mathieu 28s 16
3 Janko Tipsarevic 27s 7
4 Stanislas Wawrinka 27s 8
5 Teymuraz Gabashvili 25s 17
6 Mardy Fish 24s 9

--THE FASTEST--
1 Gael Monfils 14s 9
2 James Blake 15s 6 Ana Ivanovic 16s 3
3 Michael Llodra 16s 6 Kim Clijsters 16s 12
4 Roger Federer 17s 10 M. Larcher De Brito 19s 11
5 Fernando Verdasco 17s 10 Caroline Wozniacki 21s 11
6 Sam Querrey 17s 4 Samantha Stosur 21s 13

Source: WSJ Research

*min. five breaks between point and next serve



Bound to turn into a Rafa bashing thread and the conditions here are making players slower than normal but some interesting figures nonetheless. Article is worth a read too.

Tripster
09-10-2010, 01:52 PM
When I watched Stan yesterday I was really annoyed by all the time wasted between points once again.
When did this "grab-the-towel-after-every-point&collect-5-balls-to-get-rid-of-them-before-choosing-the-actual-one"-attitude start?

Maybe my mind plays some tricks with me, but the time between points was much shorter in the early 90s, wasn't it?

Sapeod
09-10-2010, 01:54 PM
Nadal :retard:
Where are the umpires? :rolleyes:

BTW how the hell do you take 27 seconds average to bounce the ball 7 times?? :confused:

paseo
09-10-2010, 01:57 PM
Monfils just doesn't think what he's gonna try to do with the next point. No plan, no strategy whatsoever. That's why he's the fastest.

Henry Chinaski
09-10-2010, 01:57 PM
When I watched Stan yesterday I was really annoyed by all the time wasted between points once again.
When did this "grab-the-towel-after-every-point&collect-5-balls-to-get-rid-of-them-before-choosing-the-actual-one"-attitude start?

Maybe my mind plays some tricks with me, but the time between points was much shorter in the early 90s, wasn't it?

Murray complained to the ump about Stan a few times but nothing happened iirc

Audacity
09-10-2010, 01:58 PM
Monfils just doesn't think what he's gonna try to do with the next point. No plan, no strategy whatsoever. That's why he's the fastest.

yeah

ApproachShot
09-10-2010, 02:11 PM
Stats are always nice. Unfortunately the link for me does not seem to work. Just out of pure curiosity, did they mention the average number of times Djokovic bounces the ball?

I like Djoko but I'm surprised not to see him near the top of the first list. I'm also similarly surprised not to see Roddick near the top of the second list, although I'm guessing the sample size of matches that he played in the tournament was not sufficient for inclusion in this investigation?

Priam
09-10-2010, 02:16 PM
Monfils. what a clown.

Arakasi
09-10-2010, 02:17 PM
:eek: I can't believe that Nadal is the slowest.

He always seemed so fast to me. :confused:

Sillyrabbit
09-10-2010, 02:22 PM
The limit is 20s right? Surely there must be a reason why umpires are seemingly allowing players to go over the time so easily. Everything's become mostly about power and physicality as that's where the game is heading. They should probably just up the time to 30s and enforce point penalties or fault calls at the first instance of going over the time.

ktdude
09-10-2010, 02:22 PM
Would have expected to see Roddick on the fastest list and Nole on the slowest. Interesting stats, though!

Voo de Mar
09-10-2010, 02:24 PM
Thanks for posting, when I saw the title I thought Nadal and Blake. Good to know Monfils is quicker ;)

Not a big surprise that Nadal and Mathieu played the longest 4-setter in Grand Slam history ;)

Arakasi
09-10-2010, 02:29 PM
Just out of pure curiosity, did they mention the average number of times Djokovic bounces the ball?

No they didn't. :)

I'm also similarly surprised not to see Roddick near the top of the second list, although I'm guessing the sample size of matches that he played in the tournament was not sufficient for inclusion in this investigation?

It says that "*min. five breaks between point and next serve" in the OP, which would imply that a sample of 5+ serves is sufficient for inclusion. But it does say in the article that they only measured the time for 54 players so he may not have been included.

Priam
09-10-2010, 02:32 PM
Sharapova with 25 seconds and only 5 bounces!

ApproachShot
09-10-2010, 02:38 PM
Sharapova with 25 seconds and only 5 bounces!

Ivanovic still trumps her in the seconds/bounces ratio :lol:

ktdude
09-10-2010, 02:46 PM
It says that "*min. five breaks between point and next serve" in the OP, which would imply that a sample of 5+ is sufficient for inclusion. But it does say in the article that they only measured the time for 54 players so he may not have been included.

They must have opted not to include him. Gabashvili is there and he went out in R1 so it isn't related to number of matches played. I'd wager that Roddick would top the list if he had been included.

Arakasi
09-10-2010, 02:50 PM
They must have opted not to include him. Gabashvili is there and he went out in R1 so it isn't related to number of matches played. I'd wager that Roddick would top the list if he had been included.

I don't understand why they would have done that. Especially if Roddick was indeed near the top of the list. Surely it would make sense to include the slowest and fastest players.

Henry Chinaski
09-10-2010, 03:03 PM
They must have opted not to include him. Gabashvili is there and he went out in R1 so it isn't related to number of matches played. I'd wager that Roddick would top the list if he had been included.

Maybe. Dustin Brown seems crazy-fast between points too

solowyn
09-10-2010, 03:07 PM
:eek: I can't believe that Nadal is the slowest.

He always seemed so fast to me. :confused:
Lolz :angel:

Sharapova's is pretty annoying, those slow bounces followed by a 5 second standstill..

Steelq
09-10-2010, 03:18 PM
Lol Nadal 29 sec average,so he actually goes over 30 sec decent amount of times,no surprise he broke so many records for longest matches.

Everko
09-10-2010, 03:49 PM
They must have opted not to include him. Gabashvili is there and he went out in R1 so it isn't related to number of matches played. I'd wager that Roddick would top the list if he had been included.

must have not done the outer courts

LaFuria
09-10-2010, 04:53 PM
Not surprising to see Nadal top it, he needs Uncle Toni to signal instructions after all.

Jomp1
09-10-2010, 05:08 PM
This comes as no surprise, Nadal takes 15 seconds between 1st and 2nd service.. But it's his choice if he wants to spend another hour on court against inferior players.

FormerRafaFan
09-10-2010, 05:09 PM
It doesn't surprise me at all to see Rafa topping this list. Even I think he uses maybe a bit too long time between service points. Though I know it's a part of his OCD/superstition thing, so it's kinda hard to change that now.

careergrandslam
09-10-2010, 05:20 PM
just increase the time allowed to 50 seconds. the game is more physical these days and involve alot of running, so u need some time to catch ur breath.

im assuming these 30 second rules were made decades ago when serve and volley was the style and it was not physical and hardly any running with very quick points.

the game has changed over the years and decades and so should the rules.

DrJules
09-10-2010, 06:07 PM
Lol Nadal 29 sec average,so he actually goes over 30 sec decent amount of times,no surprise he broke so many records for longest matches.

Agreed and is a rule breech that umpires need to address.

allpro
09-10-2010, 06:22 PM
interesting article. nadal definitely needs to speed things up while fed and blake seem rushed at times - they should slow down a bit on critical points and/or during negative momentum shifts.

toweling off after every single point is ridiculous and should be banned.

tennisfan856
09-10-2010, 06:26 PM
how can the article leave out philipp petzschner? The guy takes like 7 seconds in between serving points.

jcreback
09-10-2010, 06:35 PM
I, for one, am shocked to see Nadal lead the list of players with blatant disregard for the rules of tennis, and shame on umpires for not even attempting to control this behavior.

Modetopia
09-10-2010, 06:54 PM
#1 Time taker.:devil:
http://a.imagehost.org/0910/Rafael_Nadal-09Madrid-0.jpg

Mary Pierce should come back.:p

Bobby
09-10-2010, 07:05 PM
just increase the time allowed to 50 seconds. the game is more physical these days and involve alot of running, so u need some time to catch ur breath.

im assuming these 30 second rules were made decades ago when serve and volley was the style and it was not physical and hardly any running with very quick points.

the game has changed over the years and decades and so should the rules.

Serve and volley is actually very demanding physically. It's not easy to sprint forward behind every serve and stretch for volleys.

My suggestion is that it's should be forbidden to use towels between points. Use the damn wrist bands or your shirt but don't ask the for the towel after every single point. I was watching some match this week in the morning before going to work and it suddenly hit me. A player (can't remember who) put his towel on top of some board and immediately a ball boy adjusted the towel so that it won't block the sponsor logo. It was obvious that it's now part of the training of the ball boys to make sure that the towel won't block sponsor's name. Well, this was off topic of course.

Allegretto
09-10-2010, 07:08 PM
BTW how the hell do you take 27 seconds average to bounce the ball 7 times?? :confused:
Tipsarevic uses the rest of the time to adjust his goggles and ponder the meaning of life.

GuiroNl
09-10-2010, 08:35 PM
Tipsarevic uses the rest of the time to adjust his goggles and ponder the meaning of life.

:haha:

On a more serious note. I'm surprised to see that the top 5 fastest guy measured still needs about 17 seconds on average. That's pretty close to the limit. It makes me wonder what percentage of the players measured goes over the 20s limit on average. Probably lots.

If that's a lot it seems to me that the ATP rule of 25s is more in line with how much time is needed by the players.

Nole fan
09-10-2010, 09:53 PM
Djoko may bounce the ball like 30 times when he's nervous, but Rafa takes an eternity to serve... and when he puts that contorted face full of concentration it just cracks me up.

hilluis
09-10-2010, 09:58 PM
The limit is 20s right? Surely there must be a reason why umpires are seemingly allowing players to go over the time so easily. Everything's become mostly about power and physicality as that's where the game is heading. They should probably just up the time to 30s and enforce point penalties or fault calls at the first instance of going over the time.

"It's 20 seconds at women's events outside the majors, 25 at men's."

Mjau!
09-10-2010, 11:02 PM
It doesn't surprise me at all to see Rafa topping this list. Even I think he uses maybe a bit too long time between service points. Though I know it's a part of his OCD/superstition thing, so it's kinda hard to change that now.

NO, it is NOT! Rafa has said that he used to be quick between points but Tio Toni adviced him to take his time and Rafa feels it helps his game.

ReturnWinner
09-11-2010, 12:00 AM
NO, it is NOT! Rafa has said that he used to be quick between points but Tio Toni adviced him to take his time and Rafa feels it helps his game.

Nadull started his time wasting shit since 2005 when He started dominating. Not jus that but He started his grunt mainly since there too.

Forehander
09-11-2010, 12:49 AM
little surprised to not see Roddick there, thought he would have been one of the top when it comes to taking less time.

osmonde
09-11-2010, 01:22 AM
@ modetopia
Nadal take longer time when he is down or near a break point.
Look at the score in the picture above: score is 4-4 and is down 0-30 he could lose the set if he loses his serve.
When he is rolling, he canned some game in 1m-1m30sec...
Nadal is not the fastest by far but it depends where the game is up to.
Generally, it is around 15 sec.

Perception is different: Isner time lapse is very long but it doesn't show that much because he keeps walking slowly behind...and then serve fast when on position.

dombrfc
09-11-2010, 02:04 AM
No surprises here.

But its meaningless if nothing is done about controlling it.

And this stat just seems up Monfils' problem.

Mateya
09-11-2010, 07:39 AM
PHM on the second place in a joke. One second less than Nadal who takes an eternity just to do his ass picking routine? :confused:
PHM played some windy matches (against Fed especialy) where he waited for gusts of wind to calm down. And this is the freaking result. PHM is no timewaster.

And yes, I wouldn't mind 30 second time-limit. And I think players are quietly enforcing it into the game. ;)

These stats also show what a clown Monfils is. Just racing through his service games without much thought it seems...

Ouragan
09-11-2010, 08:29 AM
Goof thread. One of the reasons I don't watch tennis live and rarely on TV, this 25 second interval is way too long for my internet generation attention span.

dodo
09-11-2010, 05:59 PM
Sharapova with 25 seconds and only 5 bounces!
I am really surprised at this one. She seemed to take a full minute at times vs Wozniacki. I guess she steamrolled through earlier rounds double time.

Modetopia
01-29-2011, 08:53 AM
any stats from AO this year?:D

Purple Rainbow
01-29-2011, 09:16 AM
Goof thread. One of the reasons I don't watch tennis live and rarely on TV, this 25 second interval is way too long for my internet generation attention span.

tl;dr

GlennMirnyi
01-29-2011, 02:59 PM
Expected. Nadull's a cheater. His average time is already over the 25 seconds limit. :lol: Imagine the peak times.

FormerRafaFan
01-29-2011, 04:12 PM
any stats from AO this year?:D

I was just going to ask about that! Would be nice to have some stats from AO this year too :D

JayR
01-29-2011, 08:07 PM
I'm more amazed at the av.no. of bounces recorded for Federer. 10? Don't think he's usually much if ever above 4.

Mechlan
01-29-2011, 08:19 PM
Interesting stuff. Agreed about the towels slowing down the game tremendously, they need to do something about that. And having an average time between serves that breaks the rules, well it's nice to see the stats on those players.

tangerine_dream
01-29-2011, 08:53 PM
No Roddick or Djokovic on the lists? :confused:

4 Roger Federer # ball bounces: 10
Which ball bounces are they counting? Roger's pre-serve ball bouncing rarely goes higher than five. Bouncing the ball with the racket as he's approaching the baseline shouldn't count.

croat123
01-29-2011, 09:09 PM
anyone notice capra with 28 bounces :haha:

i say make the limit 30 seconds, but be strict. anything over 30s = penalty

oranges
01-29-2011, 09:15 PM
Why, 25 is more than enough and they should be strict about that, unless the crowd is making it impossible to serve within time. As for towels, I don't think they are the problem in itself. They have different routines. If your routine is to go for the towel, I'm fine with it, but you can't have three more routines than on top of that and take an eternity to serve.

abraxas21
01-29-2011, 09:47 PM
cheatdal at it again.

FairWeatherFan
01-29-2011, 09:57 PM
No surprise that Mugboar is top of the list. Truly one of the worst sportsmen tennis has ever seen.

leng jai
01-29-2011, 10:03 PM
It makes sense. Nadull's moonballing is too exhilarating for the crowd so he is doing them a favour by giving them extra time to recover between points.

fast_clay
01-29-2011, 11:02 PM
i was at a match in rotterdam where nadal's consecutive 30+ bounces between points caused seizures in around 10 members of the viewing public... i read about it the following day in the local media, turns out he'd put them in a trance like state, and they had trouble coming out of it, causing the seizures and vomiting... guy is a f***ing health hazard...

Sonja1989
01-29-2011, 11:06 PM
I don't understand Djokovic why isn't on the list?

JanKowalski
01-29-2011, 11:35 PM
I don't understand Djokovic why isn't on the list?

The list is ordered by time, not the number of bounces. He probably is just below 24s.

Henry Chinaski
01-29-2011, 11:36 PM
Read the article. Not every player was measured. It was just a selection from the show courts on the first few days iirc

Sonja1989
01-29-2011, 11:45 PM
The list is ordered by time, not the number of bounces. He probably is just below 24s.

Hehe, but the king of number of bounces is Djokovic! :)

GlennMirnyi
01-29-2011, 11:52 PM
Yeah, nobody's discussing bouncing. We're talking about time.

MaxPower
05-09-2011, 09:09 PM
Disgusting. This is average time right? Just imagine the peak times. It's the same thing as cheating your way to victory. Some players play a very defensive and physical game and need more time to recover. Therefore they have adapted their serving to give more recovery time well beyond the allowed time.

If the ref doesn't step in and speed up the serving then you can be fresh for another huge rally right after. It's the difference between getting broken and not broken many times. No wonder many players have bad BP conversion rates against some of these "cheaters". But blame the refs. They are just afraid. Maybe should have a "serve clock" of 25s and you would need a special reason to not get your serve away before it runs out or you lose the point. Would be fun

abraxas21
05-09-2011, 09:12 PM
federer on nadal:

Under the rules, a second violation would incur a point penalty and Federer said: "The unfortunate part is the umpire will always give him a warning but he'll never give him a point penalty.

"It's obviously a fine line. Until he gets into position to serve he takes his 20 seconds then he takes another 10 or 15 seconds until he really serves. I'm not saying he abuses it but he never feels the heat that much."

Certinfy
05-09-2011, 09:14 PM
Looking at those stats it's amazing that Monfils vs Federer in Paris last year lasted over 2 hour 40 mins considering how fast both of them serve and considering how fast the court was.

Lleyton_
05-09-2011, 09:18 PM
Cheaters :o

abraxas21
05-09-2011, 09:22 PM
Time analysis of the Wimbledon 2008 final

Returning to the actual time both players took to deliver their serves, Federer took 3974 seconds in total to prepare for his 195 serves (average 20.4 seconds), while Nadal took 6629 seconds to prepare for his 218 serves (average 30.4 seconds). This not only shows that Federer maintained a safe margin of 5 seconds with respect to the rules, but that Nadal constantly violated the time limit by about the same margin. If the time limit rule had been strictly enforced, Nadal too would have had to maintain a safe margin, probably also at least 5 seconds. One can therefore conclude that we spent more or less 2180 seconds (36 minutes 20 seconds) too long watching Nadal prepare for his serve. About half of this time was in direct violation of the rules.

http://www.riaanbooysen.com/misc/47-tennis?start=4

i think that for GS the time limit is just 20 seconds...

Roddickominator
05-09-2011, 09:37 PM
To be honest, they should strip Nadal of all of his Slam titles. He cheated repeatedly to attain them...likely in more ways than one. But we know for sure that the timewasting was and is continuing to happen.

peribsen
05-09-2011, 09:43 PM
To be honest, they should strip Nadal of all of his Slam titles. He cheated repeatedly to attain them...likely in more ways than one. But we know for sure that the timewasting was and is continuing to happen.

:drink:

Nole fan
05-10-2011, 12:08 AM
To be honest, they should strip Nadal of all of his Slam titles. He cheated repeatedly to attain them...likely in more ways than one. But we know for sure that the timewasting was and is continuing to happen.

When Nadal haters have to use the time before serving as an excuse to downplay Rafa's titles, you know they're hurting really bad. :spit:

Sophocles
05-10-2011, 10:26 AM
There should be a countdown clock that rings if the server goes over time. The umpire should then call a fault. Problem solved.