Back to the drawing board for Team Roddick [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Back to the drawing board for Team Roddick

tangerine_dream
09-13-2004, 03:21 AM
I think we can all agree that for the most part, Andy is a better, more complete player this year than he was last year. And yet I can't help but feel that this year is something of a letdown for him (it was bound to be, after the 2003 high). He has four titles, but no slams, no Olympic medal. :sad: What exactly is holding him back?

For the heck of it, I checked the ATP site to get a list of Roddick murderers. Here are the Most Wanted:

In 2004 he lost to:

Jonas Bjorkman (Qatar)
Marat Safin (Aussie Open)
Thomas Enqvist (Memphis)
Vince Spadea (Scottsdale)
Tim Henman (Indian Wells)
Tommy Haas (Houston)
Guillermo Canas (Rome)
Olivier Mutis (Roland Garros)
Roger Federer (Wimbledon & Toronto)
Andre Agassi (Cincy)
Fernando Gonzales (Olympics)
Joachim Johansson (US Open)

I looked at the list of players he lost to last year and two names kept coming up: Federer and Henman. These are the two who pose the biggest obstacle for Andy. Looking at this list, I see a few whom he had no business losing to in the first place: freakin' Vince Spadea at Scottsdale? C'mon, that would've been an easy title win for him but he had to go and have a five-minute hissy fit that accomplished absolutely nothing except for him to be docked a point and then go on to lose the tournament. Ass. :mad:

Memphis. Something happened at Memphis and I forgot what (besides him losing). Was this when he broke up with Mandy? I remember Andy being very sour. I recall us having conversations about the state of Andy's well-being and even Brad Gilbert caused some panic when he mentioned that not all was well in Roddick's camp these days. :scared:

Gonzales and Johansson. Two classic examples of why Andy sucks ass when he plays defensively and not offensively. He almost always, always loses when he sits back and waits for something to happen. When will someone kick him in the head and tell him this is not the way he should be playing? He must know this already, so why does he keep doing it? How do we get him to stop this nasty habit? :scratch:

Clay. Pfft. Self-explanatory. :rolleyes:

His temper/ADD. Just when we think he's got his temper under control, along comes a Scottsdale. Just when we think he's finally grown up, he starts kicking over microphones in Cincy and giggles over it. He's still caught between being a boy and being a man. He's intelligent, but not completely self-aware. He's confident but immature. He's still far too impatient to construct points or work the clay. He's not smashing as many rackets these days but unfortunately, he's now taking his frustrations out on others. :scared: Please go back to smashing rackets, Andy, and quit harassing the linespeople and/or trash-talking with fans.

There's a lot of other things on my mind but I just wanted to put this out and see what you all thought.

Deboogle!.
09-13-2004, 03:26 AM
Memphis was when he hurt his back.

My guess is Scottsdale, the whole tournament, had something to do with post-Mandy syndrome. Plus his back wasn't quite right, and having been to much of it, it was kinda a weird tournament all-around. I would be surprised to see Andy back.

He was exhausted in Houston and anyone would've beaten him in that final.

My problem is the close matches that he could've won - AO, RG, IW, Cincy, and USO.

Rome was Rome... even he says he didn't want to be on court, ok so that's an aberration.

I still believe the reason why the top guys didn't do well at the Olympics was b/c they put the pressure on themselves, they wanted it almost TOO Badly. Same deal for Andy and Roger. That's my opinion, I could be wrong.

It's something mental because I believe technically speaking his game has improved a lot over the past year. Something about when he was late into a 3rd or 5th set something happened, whether a call flipped him off or he just played one lazy serve game or what, it's not good.

I agree that he hasn't quite finished maturing yet. It's silly to compare him to a Lleyton or Roger - maybe they matured earlier, they both turned pro earlier as well.

He needs to plan his schedule better, he needs to get past his fierce loyalty to tournaments that might not be the best for him schedule-wise.

He needs to commit to improving on clay and he needs to keep up with what he's doing fitness-wise, and he also needs to continue taking risks by going to net and using his BH more in matches. Those are things I admire. I don't expect it all to come together immediately, and the fact that he's a slam winner and a consistent top 3 player with serious holes in his game, that's saying something if he keeps improving. I still keep going back to mental stuff this year... I dunno.

tangerine_dream
09-13-2004, 03:31 AM
I agree with you bunk, he's hit a wall; this whole year seemed stagnate, like he never got out of the gate. He can handle pressure from the outside very well but not, apparently, when he puts pressure on himself. And like we said before, he's had to deal with some very tough losses (Safin, Federer, Agassi, etc.) that had to have affected him thoughout the year. The pressure to maintain top form is so much more different than getting there.

superpinkone37
09-13-2004, 03:35 AM
its just all mental at this point IMO, he had such a great year last year so obviously there was bound to be some dissapointment. yeah he needs to really work on doing something during the clay season but frankly, i dont think he really cares about that. he just wants to go out there on a hardcourt and dominate, and unfortunatly or him it doesnt work like that. he as at the top riught now, or pretty close to it, the thing is, what now?

Dirk
09-13-2004, 03:35 AM
The season is not over yet. Don't you think you are overreacting just a little? Say Andy wins another title a big or small this year, can you honestly say that 5 titles in a year is bad?

Deboogle!.
09-13-2004, 03:36 AM
Yep yep...

And it'd be easy to put some of the blame on Brad, and... maybe he deserves some of it, but push comes to shove it seems to be at the end of these long matches where the problems arise - his serve lets him down, his volleying deteriorates (see the Moya match in Miami which he should have lost except Carlos is even worse mentally than he is), his BH goes downhill, it's something.

Oh and all the doublefaults on break points are really starting to piss me the F off. Doesn't matter if he has one of the best/fastest serves in the game if he double faults on break points. He's done it CONSISTENTLY all summer long, it's really annoying the shit out of me.

And Danielle, I agree with you about surface. He's just point-blank, period, end of story, GOT to improve on clay. It's embarrassing. Something he's probably improved upon most is his movement. That combined with his better consistency off both wings on the ground, and the fact that he returns somewhat better, really gives him absolutely NO excuse not to do better on clay. Just NO excuse. He's GOT to get it in his head that he is capable of playing on it, that's what is holding him back, he simply doesn't even believe he can do well so he loses confidence in his shots and his game deteriorates the second he steps on the pretty courts.

But if he doesn't put up better results and plan his clay schedule better next year... it's really gonna start to be hard to support him.

superpinkone37
09-13-2004, 03:38 AM
Oh and all the doublefaults on break points are really starting to piss me the F off. Doesn't matter if he has one of the best/fastest serves in the game if he double faults on break points. He's done it CONSISTENTLY all summer long, it's really annoying the shit out of me.

yeah and okay thats alright if he takes some chances on his second serve because most of the time, it works for him, and hes obviously very confident in it. it doesnt always work though. come on, if youre down a break point and its gonna be hard for you to win the point in the first place with all those things running through your mind, please dont go for the killer serve, he doesnt even give himself a chance by doing that, its ridiculous

Deboogle!.
09-13-2004, 03:41 AM
Andy lost the first set three times between the Olympics and USO (Haas, Gonzo, PimPim).... all three of those times, the set rested on one break of serve that was caused by an Andy double fault. I wish I could be making that stat up.

tangerine_dream
09-13-2004, 03:41 AM
He's been DF'ing all over the place because he's 1) angry with himself; 2) angry with a bad call and can't shake it; 3) trying to win a cheap point and he's tight; and/or 4) too damn impatient. Or how about all of the above? :o

If Andy weren't so impatient, his clay results would be better.

And he really needs to work on his temper. If he's trying to use it to jack himself up, it's not working anymore and only causes him to lose his focus.

Dirk
09-13-2004, 03:43 AM
Bunk andy doesn't move well enough on the clay to be a Tier 1 player on it. He game/tactics are not suited for clay. He could change that but it would take maybe 2 years. Just like it takes time not as long for clay guys to be good on hardcourts.

tangerine_dream
09-13-2004, 03:47 AM
omg, this thread is screaming for a heya rant. Please heya, come and post some more of your brilliant poetry. I need a fix bad. :sobbing:

Deboogle!.
09-13-2004, 03:48 AM
:haha: :rolls:

star
09-13-2004, 03:50 AM
omg, this thread is screaming for a heya rant. Please heya, come and post some more of your brilliant poetry. I need a fix bad. :sobbing:

I've been too long without a Heya rant. :)

Actually..... been too long without reading posts from all of you (with a few notable exceptions ;) )

star
09-13-2004, 03:57 AM
Ok. Here's my prescription for Andy.

First. Get rid of the stupid trucker cap. It's only holding him back. I can't see his game ever developing with the stupid cap.

Second. Dump Reebok. There's no way anyone could win a slam with that ugly shirt. It was a fluke that he won last year with the ugliness of that design, but this year's design was absolutely ghastly and Andy probably just didn't want to have a lot of pictures around of him holding a trophy with that ugly shirt. I'm sure it was subconscious, but really..... I think playing even 5 matches in that shirt was asking way too much.

Third.... The shoes. Man oh man. Andy's got heavy feet anyway... no light poetic foot movement from him. He doesn't need dark or darkish shoes weighing him down.

Fourth .. His coach needs to stop being so f...ing in love with him. I mean, Brad looked like his son died when Andy lost to Pim Pim.

I could go on, but I've mentioned the important stuff....

you know....... except the pizza ........ ;)

superpinkone37
09-13-2004, 04:01 AM
LMAO :lol: omg i saw some picture of some doubles team (i think its was the old men's doubles-- sorry i dont know what else to call it :lol:) and they were both wearing that goddamned ugly reebok shirt.

Deboogle!.
09-13-2004, 04:02 AM
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

in all seriousness, though, I think Brad and Andy's relationship has both pros and cons. It's nice that he has someone who cares so much and will pretty much do anything for him out on the road. I'm sure that's comforting for Andy and when he has no family or whatever out with him, I'm sure that can be a help. But the other edge of that sword is that Brad probably is not tough enough on him.

He did look especially bad the other night, though. As did Andy's agent (hmm I wonder why?).. but when you think about it... I think this could be one of his more devestating losses of his career. This was a match where first of all, he came out so flat and should never even have been in a 5th set ANYWAY, but then he comes back, plays 2 sets where has a total of THREE unforced errors, has PimPim right where he should've had him, and then he falls flat again when there's no time left to recover. It's pretty bad. So it doesn't shock me that Brad looked pretty bad. It was a really BAD loss.

It was the Jensen brothers, Danielle:)

superpinkone37
09-13-2004, 04:07 AM
It was the Jensen brothers, Danielle:)

ahh, thanks, lol, sorry but i started cracking up when i saw that picture cuz i though there was no way in hell that anyone other than andy would put on that shirt, and then there it was in front of me...TWO of them :lol:

and yeah i agree with you about andy and brad's relationship. and probably thinks he's the best thing in the world, and he is for certain things, especially just a sort of companion when he doesnt have any frineds or family with him or whatnot. but i do think that sometimes brad should be a little tougher on him. but im no coach, and i really cant put my finger on exactly what andy needs, other than the obvious mental thing and the fact that he needs some patience.

star
09-13-2004, 04:32 AM
Well, that....... and to not get all nervous and tight at 4-5 in the fifth set. :)

Deboogle!.
09-13-2004, 04:37 AM
but see, the nervous and tight at 4-5 doesn't bother me as much as the fact that he was in the 5th anyway. He came out totally flat in the beginning of the match, he never should've been in a 5th set anyway IMO. Look what Lleyton did to PimPim, he got him to that 4-5 or 5-6 game and put the pressure on and his lack of experience showed through and Lleyton could break. But Andy threw two games in those first two sets, one on a double fault and the other in the second where he had been up 40-0, he never gave himself the opportunity to get PimPim in that pressurized situation. To me that's an even bigger problem than the 4-5 game.

It's funny, I knew he was going to drop serve in that game. I turned off the tv and went in the other room and put something else on that TV. You could tell he got all jumpy in that 5th set and was uncomfortable. Yea, PimPim played well, but IMO this was a match that Andy lost, more than once throughout it. And that's why I think some of us have this "ok what is going on with Andy" feeling, because someone like him and in his position and with all he's been through and considering he was playing at the USO where he had the crowd and he had all those other intangibles, it's real worrisome that he still got nervous and tight like that.

star
09-13-2004, 04:41 AM
Deb, there's nothing new in you knowing Andy's going to lose. :lol:

star
09-13-2004, 04:43 AM
And, anyway it was a light hearted comment from me.

Obviously, I'm not as upset about the loss as some of you because Pim Pim won. Had it been say......... Nadal.... I might have been upset too. :)

Deboogle!.
09-13-2004, 04:47 AM
*sigh* But I'd rather be wrong

It's not the sole fact that Andy lost that's problematic for me (and I would suspect others as well)...it really has no relevance for me WHO he lost to. It's how he lost and the fact that it was at the USO Where he had always played so well and had apparently been able to overcome being a little off in his game before and had been able to pull himself out of tight spots and all that stuff, it just seems indicative of something going on.

You can be happy for PimPim but still worry a little about Andy at the same time ;)

heya
09-13-2004, 06:30 AM
Oct-June -he looked extremely heavy-footed & off-balanced.
He was negative & said he didn't have much talent.
Did he expect to win with no new tennis techniques?

He needs to suppress instant gratification
(practice instead of partying)
He needs to keep things simple & think like a teenager who wants to learn.


Aus Open- He & Gilbert had NO idea about the high ball bounce, so Safin took advantage of his ignorance. McEnroe bragged that Andy would beat "Mental Midget."
Gilbert was already thinking about the semifinal.:fiery:
San Jose- Played average against Mardy in a messy tiebreak
(Cheerleader PMac pretended it was freaking great)
Memphis- Served too hard, hurt his back & made a fool of himself. Nobody asked him to kiss everyone.
Scottsdale- Had no strength to play a long match, missed volleys 'cuz he couldn't move, but showed up to earn a few points. Gave Spadea a desperately-needed gift.
Davis Cup 04 - only cared about serving hard to please the crowd & pretended he was healthy & in good form. ESPN was busy showing the Bryans & forgot Andy's match.:rolleyes: (made Andy play at 9 p.m. 'cuz there was no roof to shield the stadium)
Indian Wells- Andy joked at the net & thought it was ok to lose to his hero Henman. Passively stood still while he had match point, carelessly kick served to Tim's forehand, pushed overhead over the baseline & collapsed.
Houston- a tournament he should've forgotten long ago.
Then again, it takes years to wake up after 2 Mattresses squished him. :devil:
JUNE-JULY - I had amnesia here.
Did he choke & tank all the matches? That's good for his self-esteem!:mad:
Toronto-
He couldn't run & had a bad back because he served too fast & whined that he was annoyed about losing. No, Andy, you were annoying. You hit the ball really high & short in the court at Toronto. Congrats, you lost 7/8 matches to God.

Cincinnati- it was a pleasure to lose 'cuz he smiled after losing! He stood 4 feet back & pounded the ball out when he played Agassi. I guess he was so glad to admire his hero. Is there a rhyme or reason when Andy shows up.:scared:

Olympics- Andy clowned around with a wrestler.
Andy didn't think dragging on the Haas match was bad before he faced Gonzo!!! Did u think again before you celebrated & lost a 3-0 lead, Andy!!
Then, he got his eyes glued to Mardy's matches like a loyal friend with no desire to defend his U.S. Open title!!

His gave less than 70% effort
When u see him make a ridiculous fart joke in the middle of a serious match, it proves
he doesn't want to put his name in tennis history.


If u saw Hewitt & Fed, they had slow, flat serves, kept running & dipped the ball really low so they could hit quick winners.
Andy did none of these & it's worse that he is physically & emotionally on planet Mars. He can't win & gain respect from other players when he tells them he's falling apart. There's no hope without change.

Fumus
09-13-2004, 02:21 PM
This was a good year for Andy. Everyone is blocking out the fact that Andy made the wimbly final and played Federer the best anyone has all year(while Federer was playing his best game). All in all, I think it's good that he didn't win a slam, last year it was all about Andy. He won all those masters, had the el anouyi match in aus, semis at wimbly, won USO and became no1. This year it's about Roger, and all the amazing things he's done. Roger being at the top should help to take the spot-light off Andy. I really think what will we see in the future is an Andy that can play alot more loose because not as much is expected from him. :)

Jennay
09-13-2004, 03:17 PM
Thanks for making this thread Tangy, great for discussion.

1) Federer and Henman

We all know of God's abilities, but what can Andy do more of? The first set of Wimby was a perfect example of what he has to do to beat Federer, but it is really tough to keep that level up throughout a whole match. Andy needs to take time away from him. He needs to keep the offense, and he needs to hold serve.

Henman - He's a S&V player. We all know Andy has trouble with them. So Andy, take away his game. Go into the net yourself. Or play your game, and keep him back. Take the offense. Improve those volleys and backhand passes.

2) Brad and Andy

One thing I DO NOT like about Brad is how 'buddy buddy' he is with Andy. Don't get me wrong, I love their great relationship, but Brad needs to kick Andy in the ass harder sometimes. Don't tell him to bomb his serve as hard as he can every match, sometimes placement and spins are the answer. It depends on the opponent.

3) Breakdowns :retard:

I don't know if its between the ears, or if the opponents too tough, but Andy's 5 set record sucks this year. He isn't taking the offense, he's double-faulting at really bad times, and he's getting distracted by his own emotions. Being emotional on the court is fine, but when it costs you matches, time to stop, asshole.

4) Clay :fiery:

Why doesn't Andy think he can play on this shit? It isn't that tough. He has improved footwork/speed. He is lighter and moving better. He needs to get his backhand consistently better, and be more consistant allover, he seems to make the errors in long rallies, and thats what clay brings, long points. He should NOT have lost that match to Mutis :fiery: His draw was perfect to get to at least the R of 16. He had a meltdown, he didn't think he could win the 5th set. Please, Andy, let me teach you how to play on this, its my favorite surface :D

5) The Summer Season

All in all it wasn't a bad hardcourt season, except the Olympics. Won Indy, finals in Toronto, Semis in Cincy, Quarters in the USO (:rolleyes: What is this, a pattern?)

Next year will be a positive. Andy doesn't have HALF the shitload of points Federer has to defend :eek: Andy will get his USO back. He wants it. Bad.

Deboogle!.
09-13-2004, 03:24 PM
Andy will get his USO back. He wants it. Bad.

He wanted it BAD this year... I think that might be part of the problem. Andy seems to do better when he doesn't put as much pressure ON HIMSELF. He seems to be able to deal with the press and all that but when it comes down to him really wanting it for himself, it's when he has the most problems. Look at some of his losses this year - Olympics, USO, RG and Toronto, I'll pick those four - he really wanted the Olympics and USO BADLY so no need to explain those and I believe he really wanted to do better at the French this year. I threw Toronto in there b/c I think he REALLY REALLY wanted to beat Federer that time, being right after Wimby and being back on his turf, if you will. In those four matches he didn't play particularly well at all. It was his worst showing against Roger, he barely made it through Haas at the Olympics then had a bad loss, the USO he came out totally flat after playing 4 amazing matches, and at RG well we know what happened there, he turned into super-:retard:.

Then look at tourneys where he didn't have any reason to put pressure on himself - Miami, Queens, Wimby... he did much better. Maybe I'm just making this up but it makes too much sense for me to abandon.

tangerine_dream
09-13-2004, 04:01 PM
Everyone, thanks for your rants :worship: I find them cathartic.

Does anyone plan on reading Brad's new book, "I've Got Your Back"? I read the first one, "Winning Ugly", it was an interesting read on his tennis insights. This second one sounds more intriguing to me because it'll be about him coaching Andre and Andy. :D

Editorial Reviews
From Publishers Weekly

Gilbert (Winning Ugly) has enjoyed a successful career as a tennis coach, including coaching the last two U.S. men who ended a year ranked number one in the world, Andre Agassi and Andy Roddick (both of whom provide a foreword), and in this book he tells how he did it: intense loyalty, careful listening, meticulous scouting and doing whatever it took to ensure his player arrived at each match mentally focused on winning. Although Gilbert is considered an excellent technical coach, there is little mention of strokes, grips or tennis strategy in the book. It is an entertaining, behind-the-scenes look at the preparation for a professional tennis match, with only brief attention paid to the match itself and its aftermath. He unsuccessfully tries to stretch the lessons to apply to other sports and business management: full time dedication to bringing a temperamental individual star to peak competitive performance is not transferable to a team sport or a business executive. Moreover, in tennis, the player selects and pays the coach, which makes the relationship different from that of a boss. The book will appeal to tennis fans as an insider's account of the tour, and it will deepen their appreciation for the game that takes place off-court.


Book Description
Brad Gilbert, the top tennis coach in America, has guided two of the nation’s hottest players — first Andre Agassi and now Andy Roddick — to the coveted number 1 ranking in the world. And he did it with a unique style that can teach the rest of us everything we need to know about coaching winners—not just on the court, but in the office, classroom, or any other leadership situation.

"Show me a coach," says Gilbert, "who doesn’t listen — really listen — and I’ll show you a probable loser. Show me a coach who domineers and demeans, who manages through fear, and I’ll show you an accident waiting to happen. Show me a coach who doesn’t think it’s just as important to empower the lowliest scrub on the team as it is to cater to the star, and I’ll show you a real short-timer."

When the world’s best players compete, the slightest advantage (or problem) can make all the difference. That’s why Gilbert always goes the extra mile and why he urges every boss to do the same. Whether it’s standing on the other side of the net feeding ball after ball, or endless hours scouting the competition, or just picking up breakfast in the morning, it all counts in building a trusting relationship. Just knowing that their coach is looking out for them unconditionally gives Gilbert’s players an unbeatable edge.

I’ve Got Your Back is filled with insider stories about the pressure- filled world of Grand Slam tennis. From the drama of the U.S. Open and Wimbledon to private moments on the practice court, Gilbert shares what really happens when an already great performer is determined to reach his absolute personal best.

Tennis fans already know Gilbert as the poker-faced guy in the stands with the wrap-around shades and the five o’clock shadow. But they will be surprised to learn that behind the tough guy image is a smart, funny, passionate coach who is intensely competitive yet unflaggingly optimistic and supportive. He’s a role model for anyone who is trying to inspire others to greatness.

Sjengster
09-13-2004, 06:26 PM
Gilbert has shown that he can make a short-term mental improvement to some of Roddick's shots by telling him to keep it simple on his returns and backhand, and that worked last year; this year has demonstrated that he actually needs long-term technical and tactical adjustments to improve his game, rather than his coach predicting that "The Kid" will serve at 160mph in the future. The really relevant GS losses on hardcourt, his best surface, were to players who basically overpowered him and beat him at his own game - OK, so Safin is a far more well-rounded player at the moment than Roddick, but Johansson is basically Andy circa 2001/02 with the ineffective backhand and sluggish movement that Roddick had back then.

For a start, his court positioning could improve an awful lot, both on returns and in rallies. His real problem under Benhabiles was standing too close to the line for returns and then retreating behind the baseline for the rest of the point, but he has to find a reasonable balance. Standing in front of the back fence and dumping a weak second serve return into the net that causes him to shout "Oh my God" and throw his racket in the air is not an acceptable alternative. Equally, while he has just about the biggest forehand in the game besides Gonzalez, it's possible to hit the ball hard without actually being aggressive; smacking the hell out of it when you're camped way behind the baseline is not going to be as effective as someone hitting a reasonably hard forehand well inside the baseline and taking the time away from their opponent, e.g. Federer or Henman.

I say all this, yet his game is still far improved from what it was a year ago, as demonstrated in his straight-sets routining of the likes of Nadal, Canas, Robredo etc. But I don't think anyone expects Robredo to be challenging for Slams in the future, and Nadal won't outside clay unless he develops a halfway decent serve. There are plenty of young players developing in the Johansson mould, one-dimensional though it may be.

It was noticeable that Roddick hardly serve-volleyed at all (ever?) in that Johansson match, which would have forced the big man to go on the defensive and stretch for his shots instead of having time to set up for them and unwind. Johansson himself said after his semifinal loss that Hewitt got a lot of balls back very low making it difficult for him to bend down and get much pace on his shots. Hewitt returned better as you'd expect, but apart from his usual amazing defensive gets he also hit a couple of surprisingly aggressive returns at big moments, and this is what Roddick lacked against the Swede. He's become a consistent returner without necessarily being a threatening one (threatening to players with big service games, rather than the Robredos of this world).

Clay is a whole different kettle of fish - that requires some major mental improvement as well as transforming the backhand from a dependable shot into a formidable one (that goes for Federer too on slower surfaces, to a lesser extent). He's got the necessary weight of shot to hurt top players on clay, unlike Hewitt, but the consistency is sorely lacking and you end up with final sets like the ones at Rome and RG this year which were little short of embarrassing. A heavy, rain-soaked court at the latter didn't help, but Roddick's inability to put away a home player when leading by two sets to one and by a break in both the second and fourth sets was rather poor.

Fumus
09-13-2004, 07:12 PM
Sjeng Schalken sucks...lol

Supersonik
09-13-2004, 07:15 PM
Sjengster, that was spot-on. I wonder how much of that will Andy improve upon, there are still a lot of holes in his game and he is still # 2 in the world, just needs to believe in changing tactics, when his main one is not working. Vary the speed of the serve, he has a huge kick use it more, step into the court on his shots.

He will never solve the clay riddle.

Fumus
09-13-2004, 07:16 PM
Do you think Roddick is upset, I mean, after all he got to sit next to the hot girl on the plane.

tangerine_dream
09-13-2004, 07:48 PM
I just found this article. It focuses more on the Williams sisters but I think it could apply to Andy as well. ;) I don't agree with some of the points he makes but it's relevant to our discussion and we can use it as a springboard.

With no Plan B, big hitters vulnerable
By Doug Smith, special for USA TODAY

NEW YORK — Venus and Serena Williams, once considered the dynamic duo of women's tennis, limp into the U.S. Open this week with sagging confidence, suspect games and the rankings of also-rans.

Neither has played with the consistent brilliance of the early 2000s that gave them a fear-factor edge, especially against early round opponents. Those foes are now more confident of notching the big upset when facing either sister.

If the sisters survive the early rounds, the fitter and tour-toughened top-ranked pros ought to be poised to shove them aside.

What's behind the sisters' dramatic decline?

Outside interests and injuries, which led to extended absences, have dulled their skills, sabotaged their timing and gnawed at their confidence.

Whenever the sisters' power games slipped out of sync this year, they produced unforced errors by the bushel and finished out of the winner's circle at most events. No. 11-ranked Serena won her lone title (Miami) in eight events played this year; No. 12 Venus took two titles (Charleston and Warsaw) in 10 events.

Venus missed six months, and Serena was sidelined for eight months.

Referring to the side effects normally associated with long layoffs, former pro Zina Garrison, U.S. Federation Cup coach, says, "You have to realize you're not where you left off and neither are the people that you left (on tour). They're moving on. They're getting more experience. The game is moving on. You have to do things a little bit differently than you did to get to where you were."

Besides the obvious rustiness, the sisters' year-in-decline spotlighted a more serious flaw in their games: They had no plan B or C to call upon when their power games (Plan A) malfunctioned. Of course, none was needed a few years ago when each spent time at No. 1 and routinely finished among the top 10.

An analysis of the Williams sisters' games pinpoints the problem.

Their basic strategy is unchanged and simple: always from the baseline, pound the ball deep into the corners. And then pound it some more.

Seldom do they exploit their offensive-laced weaponry by varying the tempo, i.e. following a blistering forehand crosscourt with a change of pace down-the-line backhand or mixing under-spins and slices with their usual laser-like groundstrokes.

When they struggle for consistency with their baseline game, rarely do they consider altering opponents' rhythm by, for example, forcing hardcore baseliners to the net to hit an occasional backhand or forehand volley.

Their tactics are limited — drop shots, offensive lobs and shots that require punching volleys at the net rarely are used. Apparently, no one has taught them the value of blocking, rather than taking full swings at 100 mph serves.

Both would have committed far fewer unforced errors this year had they used half swings to block returns of serves, instead of expending additional energy and a few more seconds to cock and then uncork full body swings. Stat sheets likely suggest that in the sisters' losses this year, they committed dozens of unforced errors.

What's behind the sisters' lack of court strategy and tactics? Two things stand out.

•Like many top pros of the past 20 years, they were groomed and nurtured in this era of tennis academies, where youngsters seemingly spend their entire childhoods hitting forehands and two-fisted backhands at the baseline. Chris Evert, Tracy Austin, Monica Seles, Lindsay Davenport and Jennifer Capriati rose to No. 1 playing mostly from the baseline. Steffi Graf, the only top player to hit heavy slice with a one-handed backhand, won 22 Grand Slam titles playing from the baseline.

Graf's husband, Andre Agassi, has picked up eight Grand Slam titles with his backcourt game.

•Players no longer need to construct points, i.e., maneuver opponents into off-balance positions to hit weak or short balls or maneuver themselves closer to the net for put-away volleys. With today's high-tech rackets, they routinely can hit winners from the baseline. So why bother with the game's nuances or try to become a complete player? If you win $1 million for capturing the U.S. Open, who will care that you never left the baseline?

Some experts say tennis has lost its appeal partly because of the absence of contrasting styles.

Fans loved to watch the serve-and-volley styles of Rod Laver, Boris Becker and Pete Sampras when they clashed with baseliners such as Ken Rosewall, Jimmy Connors, Bjorn Borg or Agassi.

The Martina Navratilova-Evert rivalry always drew big numbers — in the stands, and in TV ratings. Sportswriters and fans were, at times, annoyed by John McEnroe's antics, but mesmerized by his magician's touch — especially when pitted against Ivan Lendl's automaton-like consistency from the baseline.

Rivalries to match Navratilova vs. Evert, or Sampras vs. Agassi, have yet to emerge as charismatic serve-and-volleyers have become extinct.

Switzerland's Roger Federer, Australian Open and Wimbledon champion, appears to be the lone gifted serve-and-volleyer on the men's tour. In his straight-sets win over Albert Costa on Monday, Federer was successful 30 of the 39 times he approached the net. All-time great Navratilova, now 47, is practically the only serve-and-volleyer on the women's tour.

Still, the purses get larger and the tennis academies continue to stress the ground game. One wonders just how great gifted athletes such as Graf, Venus and Serena could have been had someone forced them to show competency at the net, or how great Wimbledon champion Maria Sharapova, Russia's 17-year-old rising star, might be if she were to develop a net game.

Neither the Williams sisters nor any of the game's top baseliners is likely to change her style. One thing is certain: participants in the 2004 U.S. Open women's final won't dally at the net — until, of course, the handshake that follows match point.

Find this article at:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/tennis/open/2004-08-31-big-hitters-open_x.htm

Sjengster
09-13-2004, 07:48 PM
Sjeng Schalken sucks...lol

What's this? Roddick fans are so much more mature than their childish, Duck-hating, trolling foes? Thank you for proving that statement wrong, Fumus.

Let me know how well you can play tennis with glandular fever in the future.

heya
09-13-2004, 08:34 PM
Unless you're 6'5" & still are light on your feet, it's impossible to volley after serving 135 mph & the ball bitches back at 90 mph.

How about 125 mph flat serve down the T, then volley?!!
Nobody's saying "You gave patient, philosophical interviews & waxed lyrical about your life.
Stop being a person half your intellect.
No more humiliating yourself in front your opponent & no more losses due to exhaustive playing.
Get used to running. Use angles, drop shots & quick volleys."

:secret:
"I love football & enjoy a beer while my idol "Diesel" O'Neal dunks the ball.
I don't care about rushing to lose weight & learn new lessons on all court surfaces.

Wham! Take that, you can't match my power...
I kept admiring my opponent even when I was winning & still managed to lose.
I choked while having set point & 11 break points.
I stopped using my imagination & refused to slow down to conserve energy.

I don't stop easily-correctable errors.
I foolishly want the annoyed crowd to have a relationship with me.

I don't worry about leaving with a title, especially when I play on clay against the top guys.
Brad told me to take 1 match at a time.
I don't plan ahead before I meet :tape:Spadea, Bjorkman, Enqvist, Safin, Coria, Gaudio, Henman, Hewitt, Fed, Nalbandian, Massu, Gonzalez, Johannsson, Karlovic, etc."

That's why he'll never be great. Right, Guiltbert?!!

Fumus
09-13-2004, 08:36 PM
notice how you didn't disagree with the statement.

tangerine_dream
09-13-2004, 08:44 PM
but see, the nervous and tight at 4-5 doesn't bother me as much as the fact that he was in the 5th anyway. He came out totally flat in the beginning of the match, he never should've been in a 5th set anyway IMO. Look what Lleyton did to PimPim, he got him to that 4-5 or 5-6 game and put the pressure on and his lack of experience showed through and Lleyton could break. But Andy threw two games in those first two sets, one on a double fault and the other in the second where he had been up 40-0, he never gave himself the opportunity to get PimPim in that pressurized situation. To me that's an even bigger problem than the 4-5 game.

I agree in that it's not so much that he lost to Pimmy, but it's how he lost that's driving me crazy. It was a winnable match and he blew it. Those first two sets were insane; I seriously wished I were in that audience so I could've yelled at him, "Wake the fuck up!" He was :zzz: out there and after blazing through his first three matches, I don't know why he came out so flat footed. It's not because he was tired, he has energy to spare. I still think that perhaps something happened in the day that really bothered him because his usual intensity and concentration was not there. Plus, he was cranky as hell from set one. :ras:

One of the match reports I read said something to the effect that Andy found himself in the surreal position of playing himself that day and that he was doing what his opponents usually do to him: stand twenty feet behind the baseline. Staying back like that gives all the control to your opponent and that's why Pimmy was able to dictate practically every point. Andy was constantly on the defensive running around in the backyard and couldn't (or wouldn't) move up to the net to take a point away from him. The only time he did that is when he finally broke in the third set. Did Andy learn from this? No. Instead he tried ace his way out of trouble like he usually does but this time he got tight and it didn't work.

I need more coffee. LOL.

Jennay
09-13-2004, 08:56 PM
We're all morphing into Heya :D :hug:

tangerine_dream
09-13-2004, 08:57 PM
LOL. heya's been an excellent influence on us :yeah:

heya
09-13-2004, 09:32 PM
:spit:
I really believe Andy has no concern. The problem IS there are MORON Coaches in the U.S.
Andy's worshipping other players' shotmaking more than his own.

1 talented person can teach him:
"I'm not here to be your partying buddy.
Everyday, you need to practice & use a powerful 1-handed backhand to keep the opponent off-balanced.
A 2-handed bh's good for mostly quick winners, but it doesn't open up the court."

Iheartandy&roger
09-13-2004, 09:35 PM
Lots of talent our Andy has but I see him making himself more of a novelty item in tennis and not a respectable tennis player the way he's been throwing hissy fits and whatever else I mean it's cute sometimes and i must admit I do laugh sometimes... but we need to focus on getting the job done and pissing everybody off by winning u cant let it get to u the whole match!! .... bad andy!! ;) p.s. : He's still young though and some guys are a little immature still and I think he'll come out of it so no need to won't worry yet!

andyroxmysox12191
09-13-2004, 10:00 PM
well....i think i joined this conversation a little too late :lol: so everything i would've said has already been said. i especially agree with the whole brad thing. brad needs to put coaching ahead of being friends if he wants andy to do great. sometimes being too buddy buddy with each other, isnt all that good.
in some ways, imo, their coach/player relationship has more friendship than coaching. i know brad and andy are working hard and are trying to improve and thats probably their main goal (it would be mine lol) but i just think that they're somewhat being lazy off behind the scenes? im not sure how to say what i think cause my mind is being a really big :retard: right now. lol
and everything else i wanted to say has already been said by everyone else lol

Deboogle!.
09-13-2004, 10:35 PM
but tangy, it's not like he didn't know PimPim's game before. He beat him this year, they played juniors a lot and even doubles together back then. He knew he was gonna be "playing himself" - he knows how big PimPim serves, he knew all that. It still doesn't explain the way he played in that match. If anything, his prior knowledge and experience should have made him and Brad EXTRA-conscious of having a good gameplan, between the two of them they should've known what to do. Just no excuses.

nguyen
09-14-2004, 12:01 AM
He's been DF'ing all over the place because he's 1) angry with himself; 2) angry with a bad call and can't shake it; 3) trying to win a cheap point and he's tight; and/or 4) too damn impatient. Or how about all of the above? :o

If Andy weren't so impatient, his clay results would be better.

And he really needs to work on his temper. If he's trying to use it to jack himself up, it's not working anymore and only causes him to lose his focus.

well I think ive joined this convo to late too.

Doesnt that make you miss Pete? Roddick is a bit immature and mentally unstable, in other words..hes lost out there. What really suprises me is his relationship w/ the fans (is this just me?). Some matches he completely ignores them, other times hes hating on them, or he gets them going. I thought it was awesome when he got soo pumped with that first break, when he was at the net, against PimPim in the USO.

Havok
09-14-2004, 12:17 AM
When Federer is hogging pretty much all the slams, everyone is having a "crap" year if you wanna use those standards tangy. Andy has said it before he doesn't care about the ranks and stuff, he wanted to improve as a player, and he clearly is. You see improvements in his game little by little so imo that's what counts the most. Yeah he didn't win a major this year, but it's not like he totally stunk them up (sauf RG). Yes he "should have" won vs both Safin and PimPim, but he didn't and he'll learn from those loses, like he always does. That Wimbledon finals there's not much to look back on, Roger was just too good over a period of 4 sets (and if I'm not mistaken that was Roger's biggest test in a big time final(ie. GS, TMC, TMS. I'm doing this on my memory, and Roger's career highlights aren't on the top of my list;))) Anyways I don't really care that he went slameless this year or that he "only" won 4 titles this year. He's still raking in a heck of a lot of wins, points, and is getting better. That's what counts in my book. (though a Slam would have rocked)

Fumus
09-14-2004, 12:45 AM
haha Naldo, nice fine print.

tangerine_dream
09-14-2004, 12:56 AM
Ah, the voice of reason finally emerges and soothes us with his calming lullabys. Thanks Naldo. ;) :hug:

Deboogle!.
09-14-2004, 01:10 AM
Naldo Naldo Naldo what would we do without you :hug: :smooch:

Jennay
09-14-2004, 01:18 AM
Naldo!! :hug:

andyroxmysox12191
09-14-2004, 02:05 AM
i'll join the hugging fest too
:hug: to nAldo!!

star
09-14-2004, 02:10 AM
Doesnt that make you miss Pete?

No. :)

Havok
09-14-2004, 02:32 AM
*hugs myself* :hug:

Deboogle!.
09-14-2004, 03:23 AM
careful Naldo don't hurt yourself :p

MisterQ
09-14-2004, 03:28 AM
*hugs myself* :hug:

the best kind of love :lol:

Éowyn
09-14-2004, 03:40 AM
All i can say on this is leave brad alone! you can't keep blaming Brad, at the end of the day roger has had a storming year and NO ONE could stop him! and that is not Andy's fault and that is certainly not Brad's fault! Brad has helped Andy improve the things he needs to improve and he is still doing so and much more importantly has given Andy the support he needs personally, he's got Andy's back covered which is more than most players have, and it's what most people need especially young guys like Andy.
Brad has proven himself as a coach and as a friend and thats what he's there for, so unless you can honestly recommend someone better leave him alone. He did great things with Andre and Andy will follow stead.
Yes Andy hasn't won a slam this year but if you remember last year he said himself he was shocked he'd done it so early in his career, he didn't expect to have the year he had last year and there is no doubt this year he IS a better player than he was then. Give him a chance and lay off Brad he's not hurting you and he's not hurting Andy and Andy knows who to have around and if he trusts Brad then so should we.
And before you start with the Roger doesn't have a coach shit, also remember every person is different Roger may not want a coach but Andy does and that's his decision. I still think you will find this is a consolidation year for Andy and next year is the year you should judge on.

Dirk
09-14-2004, 03:47 AM
Shell I wish more people here would not press panic here. The year is not over and 4 titles is not bad at all. There is no sure bet that Andy can win one of the 3 majors he is able to win. To say his year stank because he didn't win one of those 3 events is really unfair. Andy played very well and lost close matches. If andy was like Marat and didn't care then you have a problem but since he does care it means he won't stop competing hard. Again, the year is not over as well. I celebrate every title a player I like wins small or large.

Deboogle!.
09-14-2004, 03:49 AM
whoa, simmer down now. No one is blaming Brad for anything.

that said, I don't think it's out of the realm of being worthwhile to discuss whether he and Andy have hit a wall. Are the improvements he has made with Andy really long-term and sustainable?

Dirk
09-14-2004, 03:56 AM
Coaching takes time and developing your game takes time too. Andy will not play musical chairs with his coaches because every player that does (Haas, Marat, Rios) fucks up their career. Andy seems too smart for that. You can't beat yourself up over him not winning a slam like this, just not healthy. People need to stop expecting too much from their faves and just let them build their careers accordingly. I don't like the "Rogi will break Pete record" for instance and I don't want the press to mock his career if he doesn't live up to it. I also don't think its wise for the US press to start behavioring like the UK press and slam Andy for not winning a slam this year and acting like he is in a slump of some kind along with his fans. If andy ends up winning let's say 4 or 5 slams, what will you not be happy or does he have to meet your fantasy slam number in order for you to like him? If you like a player for his game and personality then it won't matter as long as they try their best and andy does do that win or lose. Only mistake he made was arguing with the umpire and taking his mind off the game but that might not have even been a factor. Just relax guys.

Éowyn
09-14-2004, 03:56 AM
Shell I wish more people here would not press panic here. The year is not over and 4 titles is not bad at all. There is no sure bet that Andy can win one of the 3 majors he is able to win. To say his year stank because he didn't win one of those 3 events is really unfair. Andy played very well and lost close matches. If andy was like Marat and didn't care then you have a problem but since he does care it means he won't stop competing hard. Again, the year is not over as well. I celebrate every title a player I like wins small or large.

here here exactly, it makes me laugh that people say andy's has had a sucky year coz he won 4 titles and no slams, some people don't even win one title or ANY slams, it's like talking to a Man Utd supporter who sulks coz they finished 3rd in the league, hell if fulham finished 3rd i'd be in heaven lols.
Also 2 of Andys titles were defences, and it is always good to get back to back titles no matter where it is yes a back to back slam would be great but very few people manage it (yes i know federer did but he is one of the few).
You could also look at the people who have managed to defend queens club titles in the past the list is pretty impressive and Andy is in that list with McEnroe, Connors, Lendl, Becker etc.

Dirk
09-14-2004, 04:13 AM
Here is what you Andy fans need to do about that Pim Pim match. Laugh, look at the stats and you will see that on paper andy should have won since he had about 28 more points won than Pim Pim. It was that close. When people were harping on and on about Rogi losing in Athens...I laughed after seeing the stats because for a guy to make 59 unforced errors in 3 sets including 10 double faults and only hit 19 winners and still lose 7-5 in the 3rd set after having some break points just goes to show me how bad my Rogi has to play in order to lose to somebody like that. Just try it. It might work. :lol:

Éowyn
09-14-2004, 04:27 AM
i agree dirk i think he was unlucky and at the end of the day it's a game and he'll get over it and learn from it :)

superpinkone37
09-14-2004, 05:39 AM
wow im gone all day and look how much i have missed :) well actually, all the same ideas have been tossed around alll day it looks like, and im too lazy to read evry single thing everyone has written, so im nowhere nearer to a conclusion of what i really think about how andy is doing and whats gonna happen next

Nishy
09-14-2004, 08:50 AM
I agree with most of your posts but I think he still has a good year except he doesn't have Grand Slam title. I just want to think about why he couldn't take GS title and here are my two main views.

1. Motivation
His "motivation or hungry spirit" is not high as last year and that makes this year "good year but not great year" because he didn't take Grand Slam title. I think he still has burnout syndrome. He won US Open that he dreamed from his childhood and he reached top of the mountain so what else is best for him? It seems he is not sure what he wants next. One of the reasons why I think his motivation is not high enough to win is: The choker of the critical moment. He choked most of critical moments (vs. Safin, vs. Mutis, vs. Johansson) --> If he really eager to win, he should focus at that time. He could in last year.

2. Timing and luck
Last year was good timing. This year, his game is improving, but this year is not. This year is just not for him and luck is not on his side.

But think about a good way, this year is good for him because it is a patient training year. When he overcomes this frustration, he might be stronger in next year. I hope he has more hungry spirit after tough loss against Johansson and has clear vision what he really wants to do. Next year he doesn’t worry much about defending title and he is challenger position so it looks good.

star
09-14-2004, 01:04 PM
Andy gets pissy with umpires etc. when he is nervous, edgy, and upset with himself. He takes it out on the umpire.

I don't ever laugh or think it's cute. I know when he behaves that way, he is simply telegraphing his unease to his opponent. But, I think that Andy sometimes gets so nervous he simply can't keep all that agitated energy inside and feels he has to do something about it. A big part of big time tennis is controlling emotions.

Todd Martin, in one of his farewell interviews on TV this year, spoke about dealing with his emotions and learning about his emotions. He spoke about it as if that had been one of his central experiences in tennis.

Andy needs to have some wise person to speak to about how he feels on the court and how he can manage himself on the court. Agassi is another very emotional player who has learned to manage his emotions far better. He also has some very tough experiences on the court before he got to the place he is now. I think that Gil Reyes was the central person in Agassi's career who dispensed wisdom.

Gilbert might be good for the X and O's, but I wonder how he is at communicating these central lessons. Also, I think Andy isn't too good at listening to that sort of advice either. Anyway, I think Andy has improved his on court behavior, but I was very disappointed in him Thursday night.

tangerine_dream
09-14-2004, 02:41 PM
I feel that the tough losses will only help him in the long run. Someone on another forum mentioned that the Pimmy match will finally be his wake-up call to start making some changes in how he approaches matches.

I almost can't wait to get my hands on Brad's new book. I think once I read it and understand how he goes about his coaching duties, I will feel better about Andy's relationship with Brad. I think many of us here fear that the relationship is more father/mentor than coach.

Deboogle!.
09-14-2004, 02:42 PM
star.. :worship: :bowdown:

For a while last year, he seemed to be able to control his emotions and that's what, IMO, led the way to his amazing success over the summer. Somehow, when Brad came on board, he was immediately able to get a lot of that stuff in check. And now it seems to have come back a little bit for some reason. Even in the tough matches he had last summer, I simply just don't remember him acting like a petulant idiot. He's nost as bad now as he was before last summer, but it's bad enough to where it's affecting him in these close matches. It's definitely disconcerting.

Deboogle!.
09-15-2004, 03:37 AM
Don't know what the Augusta Free Press is, but here's a new editorial from it. I feel like I'm reading myself... this is great.
========

Roddick is no Sampras ... yet

Sports Views
Stephen Winslow
Augusta Free Press
vote4chg@yahoo.com


Andy Roddick's run at the 2004 U.S. Open came to an abrupt end on Thursday night in New York City at the hands of a 6-6 Swedish upstart named Joachim Johansson.

The loss is not what is of interest. After all, in today's tennis world, anyone in the top 50 has a shot to beat the best in the world on any given day, and Johansson is ranked 30th in the world, and he is a good player on the verge of being a great player.

What is disturbing is the way that Roddick, ranked second in the world, lost this match.

Roddick lost his cool. He let the intensity of the moment take him out of his own game. He started complaining about line calls, he started rushing his serve, and he started short arming his forehand. In short, he let Johansson dictate points and take him out of his game.

Roddick wants to be number one in the world. He wants to win Grand Slams, and he wants to carry American men's tennis on his back. He may accomplish all those things before his career is complete, but not today. He is in the unenviable position of replacing a legend of the game, Pete Sampras. He is not ready.

Roddick lacks three very important elements of the game that Sampras mastered: emotional maturity, managing the game the way a golfer manages the course, and serving biggest under the greatest pressure.

This is a tricky conversation to have. Roddick is number two in the world for good reason. He has the most powerful serve ever seen in the men's game. He has a huge forehand. He is as athletic as any person you will ever see on a tennis court.

However, that isn't what Roddick wants. He wants to be number one. He wants to be the best of the best ... that means Pete Sampras-like. The only way Roddick is going to over take the likes of Roger Federer (who looks a lot like Sampras at his prime) is if he takes his game to another level.



The emotional battle

Pete was at his best when the pressure was the greatest. He had nerves of steel and an icy glare that wore down his opponents. He was calm under pressure and carried himself with a certain quite assurance.

He was accused of being dull because he didn't show a lot of emotion while playing. I called him "The Ice Man," and watched as he disassembled his challenger's strengths while asserting his game on them. He knew when to attack and when to be patient. Above all, he knew he had to keep his emotions in check.

There is only one player I have ever seen that truly got better when he lost his composure - John McEnroe. It takes a special personality to be able to lose your cool while improving your game. Roddick doesn't possess that personality. Each time Andy showed those emotions, his game would slip. In the second set he double-faulted, and in the final set he tightened up and was broken.

Andy must learn to accept things that he cannot control such as the wind, bad calls and the game on the other side of the net. He needs to focus on what he can control like his serve at crucial moments, and his footwork near the net.



Managing the game

Pete Sampras managed the game better then anyone I had seen play since Jimmy Connors. Pete understood that he could break a match down to a couple of key moments, and it was at that time that Pete would take over.

Andy Roddick has not mastered the ability to sense his opportunity. Andy can manage the game better. He can learn to control the big points better.



The big serve

Andy's serve concerned me more then anything else about the match. As I stated earlier, Andy has the most powerful serve in tennis. However, he is not always able to use it to bail him out when he gets into trouble. That may be the largest difference between him and Pete. Sampras could pull that serve out of his back pocket each time he needed to dial up an easy point. Whenever the pressure mounted the more powerful his serve was.

Pete could dig deep and intimidate opponents with his serve, but most importantly he could bail himself out of trouble, he could finish a match, and he could manage the game better then any tennis player of his era because he could dial up that big serve at will. Time and time again he would find himself down 40-love, and he would dial that serve in and ace his way back to deuce.

Andy has not displayed that ability to place the ball with such effectiveness that it leaves opponents defenseless. Don't get me wrong, it is a blazing serve that went 152mph at the U.S. Open. However, his biggest misses are at the biggest moments.

Andy is young, and he may be able to muster up the iron will that I have witnessed in the past, but he needs to be able to do it with consistency and a serve that rises to the occasion of the most difficult moments on the court.

In the meantime, it’s enough to say that Andy isn't Pete Sampras quite yet

snaillyyy
09-15-2004, 03:46 AM
:eek: WOW---great article! Thanks Deb :hug: :yeah: this person has taken everything we have been saying the past few days and put it in one giant post :p

superpinkone37
09-15-2004, 04:29 AM
wow is right :eek: yeah thats exactly what we have been trying to say...thanks for posting it, Deb :yeah: :)

and yeah, i am lookinh forward to brad's new book too. like you said tangy, maybe it will give us a better look inside how that coaching is really going. we may have our doubts about brad but all in all, i think he has been good for andy, and for even those who dont like brad, i think andy is better off with brad than never changing coaches or not having a coach or whatever. IMO brad is a good coach for andy, just maybe some of their ideas need to change a little bit :)

heya
09-15-2004, 07:49 AM
Pete Sampras-like? Pete was never compared with other players.
Andy's physically/emotionally not at his best, so comparing him to Pete is unfair & ridiculous.

If he wants to be "in the zone," he should get major help from Pete's former coach PAUL ANNACONE, who can teach (volleys/discipline) without fooling around with childishness.
...or Mats Wilander, who may not be an ass-kisser, but he has better ideas than Gilbert.

1- Pete took care of his body and didn't make his life difficult with food poisoning before a match. He only got sick a few times in 15 years.
Andy waited until the last minute to change his eating habit. He can't see the connection between wasting his pre-match time & losing pitifully afterwards.
2- Andy can say he doesn't want a Pete/Andre comparison, but he got overdramatic everytime he talked about them.
Andy tried to hide his anger over his foot injury & discomfort with playing, knowing he'd humiliate himself in front of the '02 USO crowd.
3- Andy doesn't really want to be #1 and do his best.
He'd rather party, date a phony girl & then quit tennis in 6-7 yrs after having never reached his potential.
I may be wrong, but all I see is anxiety & stubbornness written on Andy's face.

heya
09-15-2004, 08:26 AM
Why is Andy insecure? He feels like everything is too difficult to deal with & he'd rather leave the court quickly. Winning has to be easy & quick

A great, "improved" player doesn't lose because he double faults.
In a slam, he plans ahead of time just in case he faces a difficult, long match.
He doesn't make a nuisance of himself (phony & condescending toward opponent, self-disrespect, ignorance).

Improvement doesn't include playing with wrong techniques again & again. Becoming a great player includes keeping a lean, healthy body & conserving energy.

Tennis's unfair because winning the most points doesn't always mean you win the match. That's why he can't afford to do nothing while his opponents serve.

tangerine_dream
09-15-2004, 02:44 PM
Who is this Stephen Winslow and why is he reading our board? :bowdown:

Somebody blind copy Brad Gilbert on that. ;)

star
09-15-2004, 02:53 PM
In the meantime, it’s enough to say that Andy isn't Pete Sampras quite yet


Thank God for that!! :)

The minute I see Andy resemble Pete Sampras is when I'm no longer a fan. :)

Deboogle!.
09-15-2004, 03:01 PM
Somebody blind copy Brad Gilbert on that. ;)

I did, from my mostly unused Yahoo email address :lol:

Nishy
09-15-2004, 04:59 PM
Thanks bunk for the article.

Fumus
09-15-2004, 05:13 PM
2005-The year Roddick took it to another level.

Jennay
09-15-2004, 05:23 PM
Great article Deb, that just about sums up what we are thinking :bowdown:

J. Corwin
09-15-2004, 05:26 PM
Stephen! :eek: We need him for Andy's PR team, lol. :banana:

Jennay
09-15-2004, 05:27 PM
Hey Jacey, how was your party last night? ;)

J. Corwin
09-15-2004, 05:32 PM
Hey Jacey, how was your party last night? ;)

Eggggggscellent. ;) Couple of drinks but not enough to get drunk like a few days ago. :p

Did I mention the hot chicks? :cool:

Lol the bday cake was awesome: "Happy birthday, Joe Mama!" :lol:

Jennay
09-15-2004, 05:34 PM
Eggggggscellent. ;) Couple of drinks but not enough to get drunk like a few days ago. :p

Did I mention the hot chicks? :cool:

Lol the bday cake was awesome: "Happy birthday, Joe Mama!" :lol:
Alcohol, hot chicks, and cake, sounds like a nice party :p

Joe Mama :haha:

Fumus
09-15-2004, 05:41 PM
as hot as Crystal?

J. Corwin
09-15-2004, 06:16 PM
oh Fumus my man...are you trying to get me in trouble? lol :silly:


or course not!


(and for the last time...it's Kristal with a K....;):))

Fumus
09-15-2004, 06:19 PM
damn..I thought about it too, I was like it's C not a K, I would like it to be a K, that would be cool but, it's not because it's not ever the way I think it should be. So I double guessed myself and wammo bammo, I was wrong.

Sides...it's not cheating to look, it's not cheating to talk, it's not cheating to makeout and grope each other....wait wait...yea..the last one is cheating...damn! No wonder I am single every other week.

J. Corwin
09-15-2004, 06:24 PM
damn..I thought about it too, I was like it's C not a K, I would like it to be a K, that would be cool but, it's not because it's not ever the way I think it should be. So I double guessed myself and wammo bammo, I was wrong.

Sides...it's not cheating to look, it's not cheating to talk, it's not cheating to makeout and grope each other....wait wait...yea..the last one is cheating...damn! No wonder I am single every other week.

lol why you so serious? I was joking.

And yep, better tell that chick on ur bed that you're a player. :lol:

Fumus
09-15-2004, 06:30 PM
SOOOO serious...hmmm...isn't this a thread about going to back to the drawing board?

http://www.homeschoolingheadquarters.com/Tyndale/648PixelsTall/0-8423-6506-0.jpg

haha...sshhh...don't listen to him Sara..I am not a player...* mutters underbreath* *that you know of..hehehe*

andyroxmysox12191
09-15-2004, 09:14 PM
:worship: great article deb
and :rolls: jace. glad you had fun :p

Golfnduck
09-16-2004, 06:37 PM
I think he really needs to improve his mental game. His backhand is getting better, but still sucks when the pressure is on. His volleying is also improving at a suprising rate. Andy needs to play aggressive all the time. You hardly ever see Federer on the defensive which is why he wins so much. Sampras knew when to attack and thats why he's great. I don't know if you can teach that. As for Brad, I think he's done a lot of Andy, and who knows what else they'll do together. Federer will make billions :eek: of points to defend in 2005, which is good for Andy. Andy doesn't have very many points to defend, so hopefully he will be #1 by the end of next year. GO ANDY!!!

heya
09-16-2004, 10:52 PM
*faints
OMG
There's a table full of beer, diet Pepsi, eggs, bagels, donuts, M&Ms, butter rolls, burgers, cheese, pizza, pies & bread sticks (& to think...Andy's hiding his bread stick arms).

Grandpa Gilbert can't pretend that practice on a slow hardcourt's good enough for long term success.
Koko Andy had literally grown out of his small cell. He needs to escape this zoo. Huhu haaaa.

Deboogle!.
09-16-2004, 11:05 PM
OMG Heya that might be your best post ever :haha:

superpinkone37
09-17-2004, 02:48 AM
*faints
OMG
There's a table full of beer, diet Pepsi, eggs, bagels, donuts, M&Ms, butter rolls, burgers, cheese, pizza, pies & bread sticks (& to think...Andy's hiding his bread stick arms).

Grandpa Gilbert can't pretend that practice on a slow hardcourt's good enough for long term success.
Koko Andy had literally grown out of his small cell. He needs to escape this zoo. Huhu haaaa.

lol :lol:

Fumus
09-17-2004, 01:12 PM
omg...Heya...you are from planet weirdo!

Fumus
09-17-2004, 01:16 PM
Heya:worship:
(impression of a Heya post)

>>Roger the flying racoon must hibernate sometime.
>>>Will the shoes Andy has on be able to pump him up when he's down? He >needs to get mentally stronger, like a steel trap! *clamp*
>>While Brad is applying epilstop plus on his body one day, he's going to realize that Andy is like the hair ready to leave him.

tangerine_dream
09-17-2004, 04:20 PM
This is an article primarily aimed at Hewitt but I think it could work for any player (like Andy). Still, I don't see anybody "taming" the rampant Roger for a while still. ;)

How to tame rampant Roger
By David Tanner
September 18, 2004

LLEYTON HEWITT will have to rethink his game plan before he next goes on court against old friend and nemesis Roger Federer.

Last Sunday's 6-0 7-6 (7-3) 6-0 drubbing in the US Open final showed that Hewitt's counter-punching game is no longer good enough to beat a man being hailed as possibly the best tennis player we have seen.

Granted Hewitt played arguably his poorest match in two months and the serve that made him dominant through the North American hardcourt season deserted him, but the South Australian's game looked a class below that of Federer.

Hewitt has lost his past four matches against Federer - at the Australian Open, the Hamburg Masters, Wimbledon and the US Open - and each time has lost at least one set 6-0, so the question must be asked: how does Hewitt beat the world No.1.

Federer has lifted his game to a new level since he won his first Grand Slam title at Wimbledon last year. Even the mental chinks that over-rode his prodigious talent in previous years appear to have been fixed.

Federer has won nine tournaments in 2004 - including three Grand Slam titles - and has an extraordinary 64-6 win-loss record. In his 70 matches, he has lost just 31 sets, only two of them by a score worse than 6-3. So dominant has he been that his tally of 6760 ranking points is almost double that of world No.2 Andy Roddick.

Unless Federer has an off day, he appears invincible. But for part of this year's Wimbledon final, Roddick showed how you can get on top of the Swiss maestro - even when he has a good day.

Having won only one of their previous six meetings and knowing he had to change his tactics, Roddick came on to centre court at the All England Club with an all-or-nothing game plan devised with coach Brad Gilbert: either hit a blazing winner or make an error trying.

It was a high-risk ploy but it worked brilliantly early in the match. A stream of thundering forehands and a few surprise charges to the net behind his heavy serve helped Roddick to win the first set 6-4.

Rallies were scarce as the American dictated terms: Roddick either won the point or he lost it.

Federer was a spectator in terms of the direction the match was taking. He was unable to impose himself as the speed of Roddick's groundstrokes forced him to play defensively from behind the baseline.

Therein lies the secret to beating Federer: if you drive him on to the back foot, it minimises his chances of doing something brilliant. Sure, you might lose points through error, but there's a good chance if you don't try that Federer will win the point anyway.

For most of the US Open final, Hewitt played low-risk tennis, rarely chancing his arm by going for a winner. That allowed Federer plenty of opportunities to assume control of the point.

Hewitt also sorely missed the cheap points his serve had been producing until the final. Hewitt averaged almost eight aces a match leading up to the final; against Federer he managed just one.

The difficult part, of course, is maintaining the intensity and accuracy to keep Federer on the defensive throughout a match - as Roddick discovered at Wimbledon.

The American continued his all-out attack but his rhythm started to falter.

He was unable to produce the same steady stream of winners that he did in the first set and Federer was able to work his way out of defence and back into the match.

By the third set, Federer had taken control, was hitting two winners for every one of Roddick's and was well on the way to successive Wimbledon titles.

Federer's game is built around hitting the ball from on or inside the baseline. From that position, he can use his vast array of shots to send the ball to all corners of the court - as he showed to such effect against Hewitt last Sunday.

The South Australian, by contrast, was playing from several metres behind the baseline, which restricts your angles, gives your opponent more time to prepare for their next shot and makes it very difficult to hit winners (Hewitt managed just 12 to Federer's 40).

Federer's forehand is his biggest weapon and Hewitt, mindful of the danger of hitting to that wing, played most of his groundstrokes to the Swiss's backhand. But cheap points are hard to come by on the Federer backhand and Hewitt made few inroads there.

As is the case with many players, Federer's strength can be the best place to attack. He is so used to hitting winners off his forehand, Federer can be prone to blazing away rather than opting for a defensive shot when his opponent attacks on that side. As John Newcombe noted several times in his commentary, Hewitt would have been better served by trying to hit with less top spin, and therefore harder, to Federer's forehand.

Hewitt also seems loath to play backhand shots down the line, arguably the hardest groundstroke to hit. He invariably opts for the safer cross-court shot and that gives his opponent the safety of having a fair idea where the ball will go.

You only have to look at how, in the US Open women's final, Svetlana Kuznetsova punished Elena Dementieva for her reliance on her sliding serve to the forehand to realise how much of a weakness predictability can be.

Hewitt's technique on his groundstrokes is excellent, he is serving better than ever (last Sunday excepted) and he is without peer when it comes to chasing down seemingly unreturnable shots. But unless he is more aggressive in trying to win points - even by making a few forays to the net - he is likely to come off second best against a player of Federer's ilk.

The Australian

MisterQ
09-17-2004, 04:23 PM
Heya:worship:
(impression of a Heya post)

>>Roger the flying racoon must hibernate sometime.
>>>Will the shoes Andy has on be able to pump him up when he's down? He >needs to get mentally stronger, like a steel trap! *clamp*
>>While Brad is applying epilstop plus on his body one day, he's going to realize that Andy is like the hair ready to leave him.

OMG! :rolls: :haha: :haha: :haha: :bigcry: :bigcry: :lol: :lol: :dance:

Fumus
09-17-2004, 05:11 PM
Could I pass as Heya Q? lol, I don't think I have seen you laugh that much at a single post..

tangerine_dream
09-17-2004, 06:34 PM
And another thing (I seem to be talking to myself here), besides Andy's unusually bad 5-set record and not-as-great-as-2003 TB record, I can't imagine that the wins Andy had in finals this year would do much to help his self-confidence and I'm sure he sometimes wonders if he's moving in the right direction with his improvements. In 2003, he beat some Top ten players in finals. This year, he beat the likes of: Mardy "choke a" Fish (Siebel), el "fragile" Mago (a default win in Miami; though it's likely Andy would've won anyways, nobody wants a "free" win :( ), Seb "my favorite bitch after Kiwi" Grosjean in Queens (at least he managed to defend his title here), and Nicolas "the best bitch anybody could ask for" Kiefer at RCA. Other than perhaps Grosjean, the only other big win for him was over Jonas Bjorkman at Davis Cup.

But I have high hopes for Davis Cup. He seems to perform very well at DC and he's amped for the USA to get a win.

Deboogle!.
09-17-2004, 07:32 PM
oh I disagree, tangy. Andy had some big mental wins this year
~Safin
~Haas (Twice)
~Hewitt

Maybe they weren't in big finals but they were important matches for him to win, IMO.

OH and Andy's TB record is better this year than last year. Andy's got enough problems, don't create ones that don't exist :haha:

Last year Andy was 35-21 in TBs this year at this point he's 30-8, that's WAY better!

Dirk
09-17-2004, 07:33 PM
Wow that is way better. :eek: What did you do Bunk count each tiebreaker from the last two years or does ATP have a stat report on the top tiebreakers?

andyroxmysox12191
09-17-2004, 07:36 PM
actually don't they have the tb record up on the atp site or that other site...?

Deboogle!.
09-17-2004, 07:38 PM
www.tenniscorner.net - way better stats than ATP

tangerine_dream
09-17-2004, 07:42 PM
oh I disagree, tangy. Andy had some big mental wins this year
~Safin
~Haas (Twice)
~Hewitt

Maybe they weren't in big finals but they were important matches for him to win, IMO.

OH and Andy's TB record is better this year than last year. Andy's got enough problems, don't create ones that don't exist :haha:

Last year Andy was 35-21 in TBs this year at this point he's 30-8, that's WAY better!

I must've transposed the numbers and years in my head :retard: Well, I'm glad his TB is a lot better this year. :yeah: You're right, he doesn't need any more problems. ;)

And I know that the Hewitt, Haas, and Safin wins were big, even if they weren't in finals. But with regards to his confidence: he knows he can beat the B-tier players whether it's the first round or in the finals. It's the other top players he may still question himself about (Roger, Marat, Tim, Andre, etc.)

Deboogle!.
09-17-2004, 07:55 PM
well aside from Roger, he hasn't really had the opportunity to play a top top player in a big match. Seb on grass is tantamount to beating a top player on grass IMO, and so is Hewitt. Seb has posted the third best grass results over the past two years... so I dunno.... I think Andy's ok in that department. Plenty of other departments that need restocking though ;)

heya
09-18-2004, 04:39 AM
TEEEEHEEEEE No one can remove Gilbert'S chest hair.:devil::bigcry:

Safin Haas Hewitt
I think Gorilla Andy will have longevity & much more variety than the above players ONCE he's ABLE to trust himself, not OBSESS about umpires & crowds (who are overrated :o)
I'm SO SICK OF SEEING him scold a couple of people moving in the stands & then STARE AT GILBERT.
But I understand about not letting the linespeople/umpire off the hook.
IF he LOSES a set or match 'cuz the umpire ignores close calls, the umpire SHOULD BE PUNISHED.

If UMPIRES DON'T CARE about replays, they don't deserve to decide who WINS. Serena and Venus knew what would happen, but they trusted the umpires too much. Andy trusts everyone. He knew what it's like to lose A BAD POINT - USO '01.

heya
09-20-2004, 08:06 AM
I think Roddick either needs to add some specialist to his team. He
> needs to get someone who can teach him how to volley. Gilbert was not
> a very good player technically. Gilbert is purely a coach who employs
> strategical advice to Andy not technical. If andy could serve and
> volley decently, he could have something else to fall back on when his
> fore hand is off, or when he faces a powerrhouse at the baseline like
> Safin or Johannson. This way he can prevent him self from getting into
> long rallies and end the points alot quicker. Gilbert's strategy for
> this match I heard was to keep as many balls into play and wait for
> mistaks by Joachim. So that right there may warrant a firing of
> Gilbert as coach. Roddick should never counter punch anyone. its is
> not on his nature. All in all a horrible year for the 2003 year end #1
> player.


He has all the tools to beat everyone when he's on, but you're right he
probably should have a backup style when he's off. If he can volley
like Tim he'd be able to hang in there & give his opponent something
different to look at.

I agree Gilbert has to go - he's got all he can out of him & not going
to get much better with Brad....

Roddick's game is power and power only. If that does not work, more
power. If that does not work, even more power. He has improved his
SECOND serve and little bit of back hand with Gilbert. Ivanisevic and
Sampra's serves were nowhere near the speed of Roddick, but they were
farmore effective. I really think Roddick will need to develop another style

I have a strong feeling that Roddick will use this loss as
> >motivation for next year. Hence he will spend a lot more time
> >adding variety to his game (e.g. volleys and a top spin backhand)
> Ironic that you mention a topspin backhand. Roddick sent a backhand
> long when he was down match point against Johansson. Did you mention
> this just because of that error? Otherwise, a funny
coincidence:).

Not a coincidence since Roddick rarely, if ever, uses a topspin
backhand.

His backhand is certainly not the liability that it was at this
point last year, and he's shown some decent volleying skills in the
matches I've watched. Shoring up weaknesses is good, but not at the
expense of figuring out more and more effective ways to utilize his
strengths.

The rest of the tennis world won't stay static though. You can bet
that next year it's going to be much harder to overpower players like
he did this year. The year after, it'll be even harder. If he doesn't
become a better tennis player, he's not going to stay near the top..
Federer- Roddick final:
His (or Brad Gilbert's) decision to
play high-risk tennis, taking massive cuts at the ball whenever he had
a chance- no one can keep this up for a sufficiently long period of
time.

Those simple forehand errors in his own service games
> after he had broken Federer were as chokey as one gets.
>
> Andy Roddick was also too generous a loser. Missing easy forehands at
> crucial points in a match is not throwing the kithcen sink at anyone. Its
> called losing the match.

Roddick has shown that Federer really doesnt like it when he is
being made to chase balls.
Just re-play the game and you will see that Roddick makes nervy
junior errors in the last three sets, and in each instance he only had to
hold his serve to win the particular set.
Two things really worked well against Roddick: flat
outwide serve and volley.It seems that players have to take the
game to Roddick to be successful.

I am sure Gilbert and Roddick will work on this.:rolleyes::unsure:


Federer has a very high opinion of himself, and his style of tennis - and I
believe had problems coming to terms with the fact that it wasnt just Yanks
that were cheering for (power-game) Andy.

Deboogle!.
09-20-2004, 03:11 PM
Very interesting stuff, thanks heya!

I've gotta say though, I disagree vehemently with this:

"All in all a horrible year for the 2003 year end #1 player."

A little disappointing? Yes. But considering he'll still finish top 5, have some titles, etc, I think "horrible" is a little extreme. But maybe that person is even more demanding than I am, if that's possible :lol:

tangerine_dream
09-20-2004, 03:53 PM
I don't think Andy's had a "horrible" year, either. He has four titles. He'll be either No. 2 or 3 at year-end. What's so horrible about that? We all knew 2003 would be a tough act to follow and it was.

Imagine the kind of pressure Roger will be under next year defending those inhuman points. :eek: I'm sure the media will claim he will have a "horrible" year if he doesn't reclaim 3 slams again next year but instead, wins 'only' 1 or 2. :rolleyes:

Fumus
09-20-2004, 06:18 PM
horrible year for Andy with only making one final, two quarters, at the slams and only winning one master title...lol...Andy you down right suck, Recardo Mello had a better year than you!!!

(Thanks Bunk, forgot AO was a quarter final match) :p

J. Corwin
09-20-2004, 06:26 PM
Definitely a dissapointing year but Andy's still got Lauren in bed with him ;)....or are they not together anymore? :confused:

Fumus
09-20-2004, 07:37 PM
lol...actually, Andy made it to a playboy mansion party, that's the highlight of the year and possibly the career. Fed may have won three grand slams, but did he make it to the playboy mansion? With all the money he made he might have a mansion but, Mirca is no playmate...

Deboogle!.
09-20-2004, 07:40 PM
:secret: Psst Fumigator, Andy made two slam QF, no SF....

Fumus
09-20-2004, 07:47 PM
why whatever are you refering to? ;)

Deboogle!.
09-20-2004, 07:49 PM
:haha: :haha:

superpinkone37
09-21-2004, 04:51 AM
well.....andy has been pissing me off recently, but its not like he hasnt had a good year. it just wasnt spectacular like last year, imo. :) what makes me mad is not having more titles or whatever, its that he is a tard and loses matches he should have won. yeah, sometimes the other dude is just playing too good, but there have been quite a few big matches that andy should have definatly won...yet he didnt ...

Deboogle!.
09-21-2004, 05:01 AM
I was all ready to paste "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to superpinkone37 again." except.... I could rep you.... so... LMFAO

superpinkone37
09-21-2004, 05:09 AM
lol, well thanks :) i guess you agree with me then...lol. :yeah:

heya
09-21-2004, 06:27 AM
I definitely agree with you, superpinkone37. Andy threw away big matches & almost lost at Miami & Indianapolis.
In all other forums, fans keep saying how great he played. :scared::scratch:

Chloe le Bopper
09-21-2004, 06:34 AM
www.tenniscorner.net - way better stats than ATP
Way better spyware too.

FryslanBoppe
09-21-2004, 06:40 AM
*faints
OMG
There's a table full of beer, diet Pepsi, eggs, bagels, donuts, M&Ms, butter rolls, burgers, cheese, pizza, pies & bread sticks (& to think...Andy's hiding his bread stick arms).

Grandpa Gilbert can't pretend that practice on a slow hardcourt's good enough for long term success.
Koko Andy had literally grown out of his small cell. He needs to escape this zoo. Huhu haaaa.

I have to say heya, that's high quality and are you sure, that you don't pose part time as a stand-up comedian?

Chloe le Bopper
09-21-2004, 06:40 AM
Could I pass as Heya Q? lol, I don't think I have seen you laugh that much at a single post..
Your heya impression is a remarkable improvement on your Queen Rebecca impression ;)

FryslanBoppe
09-21-2004, 06:44 AM
Fumus, that was a very good impression, good to see your diligence paying off with these results.

Deboogle!.
09-21-2004, 02:47 PM
heya..... who thinks Andy played great at Indy :scared:

tangerine_dream
09-21-2004, 02:50 PM
What's ironic is that Andy didn't play great in any of the finals he won but he played awesome in the one final he lost: Wimby. :lol:

Deboogle!.
09-21-2004, 02:55 PM
If it makes your irony feel any better he played pretty poorly in the Houston final :lol: and he didn't play that great in Toronto, certainly not nearly as well as he played at Wimby ;)

star
09-21-2004, 03:22 PM
I have to say heya, that's high quality and are you sure, that you don't pose part time as a stand-up comedian?


You clearly don't read enough of Heya's posts to recognize her near Joycean genius. :)

You are welcome in Andy's forum so long as you don't condescend to Andy's fans, and, I have to say, I feel very protective toward Heya in particular. It's not that Heya is helpless and certainly not weak, but because she has a unique voice and one that should be listened to as if listening to music.

Fumus
09-21-2004, 03:25 PM
You clearly don't read enough of Heya's posts to recognize her near Joycean genius. :)

You are welcome in Andy's forum so long as you don't condescend to Andy's fans, and, I have to say, I feel very protective toward Heya in particular. It's not that Heya is helpless and certainly not weak, but because she has a unique voice and one that should be listened to as if listening to music.

Right...she's like a country music opera.

J. Corwin
09-21-2004, 04:13 PM
Heya, whenever I see your sn, I think of Outkast "Heya". lol

Heeeeyyyyaaaaaa...*boogies* :banana:

MisterQ
09-21-2004, 05:02 PM
Your heya impression is a remarkable improvement on your Queen Rebecca impression ;)

Although that one was pretty damn funny as well... :lol: :haha:

i didn't know until recently that Fumus was responsible for that.

MisterQ
09-21-2004, 05:15 PM
Right...she's like a country music opera.

:lol:

Die fliegender Texan? Die Meistersinger von Omaha?

tangerine_dream
09-21-2004, 05:34 PM
I have to say heya, that's high quality and are you sure, that you don't pose part time as a stand-up comedian?

Wow. Such scintillating comments from you. And this is your version of contributing intellect, unbiased discussions to the AR forum? By sneering down on a regular poster who DOES contribute here?

Christ, what a moron you are. Go back to Midol's forum and finish your circle-jerk around her.

heya
09-21-2004, 09:28 PM
You clearly don't read enough of Heya's posts to recognize her near Joycean genius. :)

You are welcome in Andy's forum so long as you don't condescend to Andy's fans, and, I have to say, I feel very protective toward Heya in particular. It's not that Heya is helpless and certainly not weak, but because she has a unique voice and one that should be listened to as if listening to music.
Everyone's unique here. I'm just psychotic. Yeah, I can sing. :lol:
I'm not that eccentric, but I like impersonating Andy's senseless melt-downs.
It makes me feel better to rant when he's stupid!
FryslanBoppe was just repeating what a guy said about
my stand-up comedy-like posts. :eek:GM needs some comedy.

heya
09-21-2004, 09:46 PM
I don't agree with Andy when he said he
played very well in Wimbledon. That's :bs:.
Following Gilbert's instructions, getting broken 5 times & dumping 7 break points
don't equate to "throwing the kitchen sink" at anyone.
He either lied or he became a conservative wimp.:D

Those 4 titles weren't anything special.
He looked great because:
Kiefer couldn't volley.
Andre didn't do well in San Jose.
Moya didn't take advantage of Andy's obsession with :retard:needless volleying.
Grosjean wasn't powerful enough in Queen's.

heya
09-21-2004, 11:39 PM
Hi Cult Leo. It's a shock, isn't it? You can learn how to use the shift key.

A Spaniard can slide on clay.
A duck can teach you to avoid drowning as well.

FryslanBoppe
09-22-2004, 07:01 AM
You clearly don't read enough of Heya's posts to recognize her near Joycean genius. :)

I have read quite a lot of heya's work and haven't been overly impressed, but it's only fair to give credit where it's due, and that piece of work was brilliant and the consistent analysis of Brad Gilbert is worth reading.

You are welcome in Andy's forum so long as you don't condescend to Andy's fans, and, I have to say, I feel very protective toward Heya in particular. It's not that Heya is helpless and certainly not weak, but because she has a unique voice and one that should be listened to as if listening to music.

I posted this somewhere else and I will say it again. If I read or post here, that's my business, at the same time I am not going to say anything in here that's racist, derogatory and troll-like just to get a negative reaction. Just like I don't expect to be snapped at, if I post something that isn't offensive, because I am not one of the inner circle.

The stand-up comedy thing wasn't meant as insult to heya.

FryslanBoppe
09-22-2004, 07:09 AM
Wow. Such scintillating comments from you. And this is your version of contributing intellect, unbiased discussions to the AR forum? By sneering down on a regular poster who DOES contribute here?

Christ, what a moron you are. Go back to Midol's forum and finish your circle-jerk around her.

You couldn't help yourself, could you? Why was the need to goad me?
Ok, I have even less time for yourself, than you have me, ok that's been cleared up, but I can seperate that and I have stated the occasions that I have agreed with posts of yours e.g "Mattress Mac." As for being moron go ahead and have look at my posts on GM on respective tennis issues, then if you can say that, it says more about yourself.

Considering heya's post was very funny and the take on Brad Gilbert and the mystique that surrounds the coaching guru, is very well done and so I am not allowed to appreciate that, then? :)

star
09-22-2004, 12:43 PM
The stand-up comedy thing wasn't meant as insult to heya.

If you say it wasn't meant to be offensive, I'll believe you. I'm quick on the trigger when it comes to posts about Heya because I've seen people treat Heya very badly indeed on this board.

I assumed you were being sarcastic. If you say you weren't then fine.

However, if you, as a non-Andy fan and as a person who has derided Andy's fans, come to this board, you can't expect the same treatment as one of Andy fans just like Tangy can't be expected to be treated as one Nalbandian's fans would be treated if she posted on the Nalbandian board. Surely you can see that. As a visitor to this forum rather than an Andy fan, it might be polite to you to apologise and explain that you meant no offense rather than take offense to someone who is defending another Andy fan. :)

And by the way, the "inner circle," as you sneeringly put it, is composed of all of Andy's fans and doesn't exclude any of Andy's fans. That's why there is an Andy forum. It's a forum, not to discuss the pros and cons of Andy's game or to be "objective" about Andy's game, it's a place for Andy's fans to congregate and cheer for Andy without having to but up with jeers from non- Andy fans. It's a little difficult for me to understand the motivation for someone who doesn't like Andy's fans and doesn't like Andy (please forgive the understatement) to come to a place where Andy's fans gather.

I'm sure you can understand that your comments might be viewed with some suspicion and that your comments even though meant to be non-offensive, might be viewed that way.

There are non-Andy fans who post here on a semi-regular basis (I'm not referring to Dirk or Mr. It. because they only post here to annoy Andy's fans) and those people are accepted here joyfully. They are well mannered, polite, and join in the silly fun we have here. Now you might not think they are part of the "inner circle," but I and others do regard them as part of the entire group that makes this forum a funny and entertaining place. If you want to join in that same spirit, you would be welcomed as well.

Fumus
09-22-2004, 02:38 PM
Although that one was pretty damn funny as well... :lol: :haha:

i didn't know until recently that Fumus was responsible for that.

Yes, I have many low points in my posting career, but that's not the lowest as we all know.

star
09-22-2004, 02:42 PM
:)

Fumus
09-22-2004, 02:43 PM
:lol:

Die fliegender Texan? Die Meistersinger von Omaha?

WARNING RANDOM

I have always wondered Q, what is the point of the ticket ripper at the movie theater? Is that really needed? I can rip my own ticket and the theater number is written on the ticket. I don't need some idiot to tell me it's down the hall and to the left, ohhh you mean theater 6 is after theater 5? Damn that's why I was sooo lost. :eek:

RANDOM END

MisterQ
09-22-2004, 03:16 PM
Yes, I have many low points in my posting career, but that's not the lowest as we all know.

It was a high point in my book, albeit a short-lived one... I remember laughing about that one. Rebecca found it amusing, too. ;)

MisterQ
09-22-2004, 03:18 PM
WARNING RANDOM

I have always wondered Q, what is the point of the ticket ripper at the movie theater? Is that really needed? I can rip my own ticket and the theater number is written on the ticket. I don't need some idiot to tell me it's down the hall and to the left, ohhh you mean theater 6 is after theater 5? Damn that's why I was sooo lost. :eek:

RANDOM END

Fumus, obviously you haven't been paying attention to the impending Ticket-ripper Union strike. It's sorry people like you who are threatening these laborers' well-being. Just let them rip the damn ticket, will ya?!

:lol:

star
09-22-2004, 03:28 PM
I think Fumus's cinema's must be retrograde. Around her the person who sells the ticket rips the ticket. :)

Of course, we also have plenty of people here who can count and tell left from right. :lol:

MisterQ
09-22-2004, 03:37 PM
Having been born and raised in Fumus' area, I am familiar with the ticket-rippers of which he speaks. Well the economy is a disaster upstate, I say keep 'em employed! :lol:

star
09-22-2004, 04:06 PM
I think we employ those sorts of people as flagmen on the highway. :)

Fumus
09-22-2004, 05:42 PM
Fumus, obviously you haven't been paying attention to the impending Ticket-ripper Union strike. It's sorry people like you who are threatening these laborers' well-being. Just let them rip the damn ticket, will ya?!

:lol:

:haha: This really did make me laugh out loud, I wasn't just posting it to signify that I recognized you were trying to be humourous. I really did laugh, and people next to my cube looked over. lol Thanks! :)

Fumus
09-22-2004, 05:46 PM
I think Fumus's cinema's must be retrograde. Around her the person who sells the ticket rips the ticket. :)

Of course, we also have plenty of people here who can count and tell left from right. :lol:

wait wait...I just realized, if there was no ticket ripper than you could just not pay and walk into any movie! :devil:

hey hey Star watch those cheap shots on upstate NY, I don't know about MisterQ but, not all of us are inbreds up here. ;) That said, Q get me mine moonshine, and call up my purdy cousin, it time to go cow tipin! Yeeeehhaawww!!

Ok ok, this I really don't get. I remember being pissed when I turned 15 and I had to pay adult prices for the movie theater. You pay adult prices and yet you can't get into R rated movies. What's the deal Hoyt's?

Chloe le Bopper
09-23-2004, 12:08 AM
It was a high point in my book, albeit a short-lived one... I remember laughing about that one. Rebecca found it amusing, too. ;)
:yeah:

I sure did. My humour is occassionally self depreciating, as those who have read more than 4 or 5 of my posts have come to know :p

star
09-23-2004, 12:27 AM
wait wait...I just realized, if there was no ticket ripper than you could just not pay and walk into any movie! :devil:

hey hey Star watch those cheap shots on upstate NY, I don't know about MisterQ but, not all of us are inbreds up here. ;) That said, Q get me mine moonshine, and call up my purdy cousin, it time to go cow tipin! Yeeeehhaawww!!

Ok ok, this I really don't get. I remember being pissed when I turned 15 and I had to pay adult prices for the movie theater. You pay adult prices and yet you can't get into R rated movies. What's the deal Hoyt's?

Uh..... well, I'm sure you might be able to top me with cheap shots about southeastern Utah anytime. :lol:

Havok
09-23-2004, 12:36 AM
Those ticker rippers made me remember an incident not too long ago. I had gone out for supper and to watch a movie with 2 of my cousins, and she works at a movie theatre so she could have got in for free. We walk up to that ticket ripper dude (who looked like he was 11 :retard: ) and she's like "yeah I work at another cinema" and the dude was like "oh ok" and she walked right by him, so then me and my other cousin just walked by the little dude and we got in for free. As soon as we got into out theatre to watch the movie, we all were :sobbing: because of how extremely DUMB thoese dudes are who work at the cinema.

tangerine_dream
09-23-2004, 12:54 AM
If you say it wasn't meant to be offensive, I'll believe you. I'm quick on the trigger when it comes to posts about Heya because I've seen people treat Heya very badly indeed on this board.

I assumed you were being sarcastic. If you say you weren't then fine.

However, if you, as a non-Andy fan and as a person who has derided Andy's fans, come to this board, you can't expect the same treatment as one of Andy fans just like Tangy can't be expected to be treated as one Nalbandian's fans would be treated if she posted on the Nalbandian board. Surely you can see that. As a visitor to this forum rather than an Andy fan, it might be polite to you to apologise and explain that you meant no offense rather than take offense to someone who is defending another Andy fan. :)

And by the way, the "inner circle," as you sneeringly put it, is composed of all of Andy's fans and doesn't exclude any of Andy's fans. That's why there is an Andy forum. It's a forum, not to discuss the pros and cons of Andy's game or to be "objective" about Andy's game, it's a place for Andy's fans to congregate and cheer for Andy without having to but up with jeers from non- Andy fans. It's a little difficult for me to understand the motivation for someone who doesn't like Andy's fans and doesn't like Andy (please forgive the understatement) to come to a place where Andy's fans gather.

I'm sure you can understand that your comments might be viewed with some suspicion and that your comments even though meant to be non-offensive, might be viewed that way.

There are non-Andy fans who post here on a semi-regular basis (I'm not referring to Dirk or Mr. It. because they only post here to annoy Andy's fans) and those people are accepted here joyfully. They are well mannered, polite, and join in the silly fun we have here. Now you might not think they are part of the "inner circle," but I and others do regard them as part of the entire group that makes this forum a funny and entertaining place. If you want to join in that same spirit, you would be welcomed as well.

:worship: :worship: :worship:

Goddammit star, why is it every time I rep you you go and write a brilliant post that *really* deserves a rep? ;)

FB's comment to heya, combined with his other snooty remark to Fumus, then feigning innocence, is about as sincere as a lemon car salesman. He didn't come here to talk about Roddick. He came here hot on the heels of his Queen; whereever she goes, the sheep follow.

Fumus
09-23-2004, 01:26 AM
Those ticker rippers made me remember an incident not too long ago. I had gone out for supper and to watch a movie with 2 of my cousins, and she works at a movie theatre so she could have got in for free. We walk up to that ticket ripper dude (who looked like he was 11 :retard: ) and she's like "yeah I work at another cinema" and the dude was like "oh ok" and she walked right by him, so then me and my other cousin just walked by the little dude and we got in for free. As soon as we got into out theatre to watch the movie, we all were :sobbing: because of how extremely DUMB thoese dudes are who work at the cinema.

haha...I was thinking of drawing a picture book featuring you. Like people would read my picture book all day and try to located you. I would paint you all in blue stripes and I would give you a blue beenie hat. I was thinking of calling my book "Where's Naldo?"...lol....:lol:

Havok
09-23-2004, 01:32 AM
Oh god no, that was the running "joke" constantly applied to me, but it never really made sense because the pronunciation of Waldo and Naldo is completely different.

heya
09-23-2004, 01:33 AM
star, a few idiots are too pitiful for me to care about. I'm not sensitive & I know how to rip anyone if they're masochists.


I've been thru enough real life crap, so I don't take forum soap operas seriously.

A couple of non-fans have tried to be nice to me because they realized they had to deal with me.:devil: )
1 person liked to push my buttons before, but imo, she learned not to do it again. :p

I'm not overly impressed with FryslanBoppe posts either. :angel:;)
Credit to him, he didn't behave like Dirk & Fedex yet. :lol:

Fumus
09-23-2004, 01:33 AM
haha....oohhh hahahaha, sorry...lol

Deboogle!.
09-23-2004, 01:40 AM
:confused: Naldo I thought your name WAS like waldo???? Didn't we all go over this one night a long time ago on MSN??? LMFAO. Your name is like the sound in wall, right? more like an aw-ish type sound??? :scratch: :(


oh tangy, don't worry, I got star for her awesome post :D

Fumus
09-23-2004, 01:44 AM
haha...is it like pal, your a pal, that sound? ...nal...naldo...(tries to pro-nouce)

Havok
09-23-2004, 01:56 AM
No, it's NAldo, like the a in "apple", and the example Skyler uses, the a as in "pal". I specifically went over the fact that it wasn't pronounced like waldo on msn deb.:p

Deboogle!.
09-23-2004, 02:00 AM
:sad: I had it all mixed up :o

Havok
09-23-2004, 02:02 AM
Yes you did. :retard:

Deboogle!.
09-23-2004, 02:07 AM
:sad: *crawls into hole* http://smileys.******************/cat/23/23_29_104.gif http://smileys.******************/cat/4/4_9_8.gif

star
09-23-2004, 04:41 AM
Credit to him, he didn't behave like Dirk & Fedex yet. :lol:

That's true. :)

star
09-23-2004, 04:43 AM
No, it's NAldo, like the a in "apple", and the example Skyler uses, the a as in "pal". I specifically went over the fact that it wasn't pronounced like waldo on msn deb.:p

There's a core fact I won't forget. :)

superpinkone37
09-23-2004, 04:45 AM
lol. i had always thought it was pronounced like waldo but i havent been here as long as you all so i didnt know lol. i guess i never gave it much thought, but now i know yay :)

FryslanBoppe
09-23-2004, 05:02 AM
I'm not overly impressed with FryslanBoppe posts either. :angel:;)
Credit to him, he didn't behave like Dirk & Fedex yet. :lol:

Thanks to you for honest answers and it's good that there is a lack of mutual respect. At least there is no misunderstandings on where we stand.

As for acting like Dirk and Fedex, that won't be happening.

So where are your Brad "Carpet chest" Gilbert rants?

Deboogle!.
09-23-2004, 05:04 AM
So where are your Brad "Carpet chest" Gilbert rants?

You have to read carefully when it comes to heya, she slips things in everywhere.

I must say her stuff on Brad is among her best.

FryslanBoppe
09-23-2004, 05:09 AM
You have to read carefully when it comes to heya, she slips things in everywhere.

I must say her stuff on Brad is among her best.

Yes, that's true, she has a different way of sentence structure, but that's beside the point.

I understand that Gilbert can cause some people to have negative feelings, but heya expresses it so passionately.

star
09-23-2004, 05:10 AM
it's good that there is a lack of mutual respect. At least there is no misunderstandings on where we stand.



:)

Please remember these words. :)

FryslanBoppe is here in a forum where he does not respect the posters, yet he demands to be treated politely.

:lol:

star
09-23-2004, 05:12 AM
Yes, that's true, she has a different way of sentence structure, but that's beside the point.

I understand that Gilbert can cause some people to have negative feelings, but heya expresses it so passionately.

You will love the posts of the person you do not respect because you will be able to seize upon things she says in criticsm of Andy and Brad to clutch to your heart because you despise Andy (not to mention Andy's fans), however, those of us here don't mind Heya because we all know Andy is her favorite player. :hatoff:

Deboogle!.
09-23-2004, 05:13 AM
I understand that Gilbert can cause some people to have negative feelings, but heya expresses it so passionately.

Yes, she does. But it's because she cares about Andy, his progress, and his career, and her opinion is that Brad is not the best person to help Andy reach the potential she believes he has. most of the other people who have negative feels about Brad just hate Brad. I don't think they really care whether Andy has a good career or not (in fact, it's quite the opposite in most cases). :)


LOL star! interesting oxymoron, isn't it.

So is anyone else very anxious to see what Andy's form looks like this weekend?

I had a dream last night that Voltchkov bageled andy in the first set but that Andy came back from 2 sets to love down to win in 5, 6-4 in the 5th, and I was talking to PMac about how bad Andy's 5-set record was this year and he said how Andy stretched out the match on purpose to be able to win a 5-set record :haha: of all the dreams I have that I can't remember, I have to remember this stupid one? :o

star
09-23-2004, 05:17 AM
I wouldn't describe it as oxymoronic.

p.s. Thanks for editing and making me have to edit in turn. :p

Deboogle!.
09-23-2004, 05:18 AM
wouldn't describe what what way? LOL

star
09-23-2004, 05:19 AM
See there? That's what your editing got you.

FryslanBoppe
09-23-2004, 05:19 AM
You will love the posts of the person you do not respect because you will be able to seize upon things she says in criticsm of Andy and Brad to clutch to your heart because you despise Andy (not to mention Andy's fans), however, those of us here don't mind Heya because we all know Andy is her favorite player. :hatoff:

Heya doesn't respect my posts and that's cool and has been already been established. So what I don't like Andy, but I can talk about his game and that's not a problem, and that goes for any player irrespective of my preferences.

Is it a problem that Dirk and Marc or other non-fans talking about his game and not going in for any name calling, yet they get attacked for it.

Just concentrate on the posts and not my name, it's not difficult to seperate the two. Until I say something that is totally against the spirit and doesn't respect the forum rules, then get on my case.

Deboogle!.
09-23-2004, 05:22 AM
See there? That's what your editing got you.

What does editing have to do with anything:confused: :p

This is what I meant was oxymoronic, or paradoxical... or ironic....or whatever:p

FryslanBoppe is here in a forum where he does not respect the posters, yet he demands to be treated politely.

FryslanBoppe
09-23-2004, 05:27 AM
Yes, she does. But it's because she cares about Andy, his progress, and his career, and her opinion is that Brad is not the best person to help Andy reach the potential she believes he has. most of the other people who have negative feels about Brad just hate Brad. I don't think they really care whether Andy has a good career or not (in fact, it's quite the opposite in most cases). :)

Maybe she has a case with Brad, not being the best coach for him, but what would be a good alternative for him should they part ways?

As in whether Andy has a good career or not, of course he can have a very good career, and if he does then he will shut up the more sceptical people. Look at Agassi for example, sure they are different games, but he was all hype and mouth, and failed to deliver, but he managed to turn around and fulfill his potential and has won respect throughout the whole tennis world, even from people that aren't fans.

If Andy does that, then that's great for him and his fans, if not there will be questions asked.

Deboogle!.
09-23-2004, 05:30 AM
You'll have to take up heya's issues with Brad with her.. I can't speak for her. I think they make a pretty good pair, though I think they may have hit a wall, since his improvements (especially mental) that he had shown such great signs of making last year seem to have really gone downhill this year. Brad is far from my favorite person, but thankfully I don't think Andy has adopted any of Brad's undesirable personality traits yet (hopefully he never does!).

The difference between Andre and Andy is natural talent for the game of tennis - Andre had more of it. Andy might be a better all-around "athlete" but that's not nearly as important in tennis as it is in some other sports. Brad's job with Andy is a lot harder than it was with Andre, there's more there to mold. Much more to improve. Andre had issues, sure, but he didn't have these huge holes and deficiencies in his game. Those are much harder to rectify than the issues Andre had, in my opinion, especially for a coach like Brad.

star
09-23-2004, 05:33 AM
Heya doesn't respect my posts and that's cool and has been already been established. [quote]

Please add me to the non-respecting category. :)

[quote]So what I don't like Andy, but I can talk about his game and that's not a problem, and that goes for any player irrespective of my preferences.

And you can do it as well or better in GM, yet you choose to post here. I know why you choose to post here and so do you. It has nothing to do with wanting to discuss Andy's game or interact with Andy's fans.

Is it a problem that Dirk and Marc or other non-fans talking about his game and not going in for any name calling, yet they get attacked for it.

You probably missed the fact that I haven't responded to either of them. As for attacking, you probably don't know the history of Dirk on this forum, and if you did you might understand that Dirk is being treated with great forebearance.

Just concentrate on the posts and not my name, it's not difficult to seperate the two. Until I say something that is totally against the spirit and doesn't respect the forum rules, then get on my case.

Luckily I'm not in a postion where I have to comply with any of your commands. Don't you think it is a bit... no..... extremely rude to command anyone in that manner, or do you not undersand that your grammatical construction is a command? I think you do because your English is excellent.

So, just as you are doing exactly as you please by posting here, I'll continue to do exactly as I please. :)

star
09-23-2004, 05:36 AM
If Andy does that, then that's great for him and his fans, if not there will be questions asked.

:rolleyes:

FryslanBoppe
09-23-2004, 05:53 AM
You'll have to take up heya's issues with Brad with her.. I can't speak for her. I think they make a pretty good pair, though I think they may have hit a wall, since his improvements (especially mental) that he had shown such great signs of making last year seem to have really gone downhill this year. Brad is far from my favorite person, but thankfully I don't think Andy has adopted any of Brad's undesirable personality traits yet (hopefully he never does!).

Thanks for the take on the Brad/Andy coaching relationship. I will ask heya about alternatives. Mental is a very hard thing to train, and wouldn't learning from the experiences and the hard losses this year, help him in the future. The clay mental battle is something that has been discussed already, and I am not sure how he is going to get over this hurdle, that might be a negative thing that Brad has passed onto Andy.

The difference between Andre and Andy is natural talent for the game of tennis - Andre had more of it. Andy might be a better all-around "athlete" but that's not nearly as important in tennis as it is in some other sports. Brad's job with Andy is a lot harder than it was with Andre, there's more there to mold. Much more to improve. Andre had issues, sure, but he didn't have these huge holes and deficiencies in his game. Those are much harder to rectify than the issues Andre had, in my opinion, especially for a coach like Brad.

Yes, Andre is more naturally talented than Andy, but there have been many players who have had great careers despite not having as much natural talent than other players. Agassi had mental problems especially not winning those early Slam finals.

While there is a lot to mould in Andy's game, it will take plenty of time, but people have to be patient, if they want to see long-term gain. He will never be a returner like Agassi, or have the finesse of Coria, but he brings other things to the table and needs to work on the weaknesses and consolidate the strengths and those have been spoken about in the other thread.

Star, it's not rude at all. What have I said that has been inflammatory in here? Nothing, and if there is a problem with Dirk and his antics, then those should be dealt with him respectively, if he trolls then deal with it.

If there is a problem with non-Roddick fans posting stuff that isn't inflammatory or trolling, then set up your own closed forum, and then it wouldn't be a problem.

star
09-23-2004, 06:00 AM
"Star, it's not rude at all."

You might want to reread what I said. I said it was rude to issue commands to me...... well, to anyone for that matter unless you happen to be a military commander issuing orders to your subordiants or a supervisor directing employees or a father speaking to a child. I didn't say anything about it being rude to post here. Nor, did my passage about rudeness have anything to do with Dirk. So, there's no need to distort what I said. :)

And thanks for the advice to go away and set up our closed forum. :)

That's a piece of advice that comes up often from those who dislike Andy's fans. :lol:

tangerine_dream
09-23-2004, 01:31 PM
starrrrrrrr! *whine* You're making it very difficult for FB to troll around in here! stop that :rolls: :bigcry:

heya is awesome :yeah: We love her here, so anyone who attacks heya will be dealt with accordingly. She packs more ideas into one sentence than Queen Midol, Sjeng, GWH, and FB do in their entire MTF career. :angel:

bunk, lol, your dream sounds weird. But I'd take that one over the really sad one I had about Mardy several weeks ago. You know the one I'm talking about. :tears:

Deboogle!.
09-23-2004, 03:09 PM
my dreams are weird.... well, I might remember one dream a month or something. Usually I'll wake up and know that I had a really weird dream but not be able to remember what it was about LMFAO!!

Yes I remember yours :( :hug:

Jennay
09-23-2004, 08:34 PM
Aww tangy, that dream sounded horrible :hug:

andyroxmysox12191
09-23-2004, 09:18 PM
dont you guys remember why i say nAldo instead of naldo..see it makes sense! :lol:
and tangy :hug:

superpinkone37
09-24-2004, 02:09 AM
my dreams are weird.... well, I might remember one dream a month or something. Usually I'll wake up and know that I had a really weird dream but not be able to remember what it was about LMFAO!!

lol same with me, i always have dreams but then i forget them even if i know it was a really weird dream or something, and then im mad that i cant remember :mad:

Nishy
10-04-2004, 05:18 PM
I just thought it seems he got injured every time he played against Fed in this year. Hip injury after Wimbledon, hip at Toronto and elbow...
It makes me start to worry if he keeps playing his power based on style and it proves he has to improve more technical side not rely on physical. But I don't know he has the potential to improve.
This year some players have injury so I can't categorically describe as his play style causes injury problem though.

tangerine_dream
10-04-2004, 06:06 PM
That's an interesting point, Nishy.

If Andy is playing so "hard", that tells me that he still needs to learn to find a balance between being revved-up and not getting out of control. The controlled fury he showed at Wimbledon was brilliant but he burned himself out and ended up injuring himself. Had he brought the intensity level down a notch or two, he could've lasted longer. And the rain delays also helped kill his momentum, too.

He needs to learn how to control his aggression; when to pull the guns out and when to hold back. Learning zen yoga would actually help him with this, I think. :)

Nishy
10-04-2004, 06:14 PM
Learning zen yoga would actually help him with this, I think. :)Interesting point. :)
Concentration is one of important factor I think.

Deboogle!.
10-04-2004, 07:48 PM
Andy's hip was hurt after Toronto? It couldn't have been, he played Cincy the following week.... Plus, this injury to his elbow happened before he played Roger... it was from the Marat match...

Nishy
10-04-2004, 09:18 PM
I mean hip injury AT Toronto, not AFTER.
My point is it seems he has to rely on his physical side more when he plays against Fed and Fed exposes his lack of experience (technique and variety) which I think improve. And mental is also big issue against Fed right now. I think if he plays his own player (ex. Robreto), he can beat them even he is not 100%.

Deboogle!.
10-05-2004, 12:10 AM
Discuss.... from Matthew Cronin at TR.net
====
Andy's right elbow slows him down in Thailand

Andy Roddick says a tendon in his right elbow is bothering him, which partly explains the reason why he was embarrassed 6-4, 6-0 in the final of the Thailand Open by Roger Federer. The other two reason are that he won a marathon over Marat Safin 7-6(1), 6-7(0), 7-6(2) in the semis and that Federer is clearly better than he is.

The top American player is set to play in an exo next Monday night against Andre Agassi in the Smash Hits/Elton John AIDS benefit in Irvine, Calif. After that, he should take the rest of the month before going to Houston for the year-end Masters Cup.

Andy has pretty good chance to finish No. 2 in the rankings unless Lleyton Hewitt does something extraordinary and has said that winning the Davis Cup title is his main goal for the rest of the year. He'll have no chance in Sevilla if he isn't 100 percent. That means some serious R&R is needed for a man who has already played 84 matches this year. He's had one week off since mid-July and that brutal schedule has obviously taken its toll.

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my opinion:

Andy can't take Madrid and Paris off. He should probably not play Stockholm in the middle, but he has got to put on some points to beat Lleyton. Cronin's statement that "Andy has pretty good chance to finish No. 2 in the rankings unless Lleyton Hewitt does something extraordinary" is crap - if Lleyton wins Tokyo Andy will barely be ahead of him in the race.

That said, he has a point - Andy seriously SERIOUSLY needs to rethink his schedule, because after all, next year we expect him to play a lot more on clay so that would mean even MORE matches :unsure: But I just don't see how Andy can take a month off unless he does what Lleyton did and absolutely makes DC a top priority and doesn't do anything else but that and TMC and gives up a spot or two in the year-end ranking in return. My theory is that even if Andy took off the Euro indoor season, he wouldn't win Davis Cup anyway, so he might as well play and win some matches on a surface he's good on to make sure he can finish up #2.

star
10-05-2004, 12:32 AM
Going to the finals in DC 3 times nearly killed Lleyton....... esp. the years where he was winning a lot on the tour as well. He had to completely retool his schedule and his ranking dropped disastrously because of it. People remember Lleyton taking off before last year's DC final, but he didn't take off prior to the final with the French and he was completely wasted that year.

Deboogle!.
10-05-2004, 01:15 AM
So you think Andy should take off Madrid, Stockholm, and Paris?

Havok
10-05-2004, 01:44 AM
Andy skipping the last 2 TMS events will have all of MTF firing on all cylinders. Andy should NOT skip TMS MAdrid and PAris. WTF that's fucking dumb, they are TMS events you don't skip TMS events (especially ones that you're the favorite in) I know he skipped 2 clay events but many players skip MC and he had his injury and skipped Hamburg (plus the whole fire incident :scared: ) I agree the stockholm event is a bit weird, he should drop that one, but Andy likes to get himself grooved into playing tournaments. That being said, I still think he should scratch Stockholm off of his list. (I completely forgot he was playing that event:o) Yeah next year he's gotta rework his schedule. He will put on more clay events, so he's going to have to cut some events at the beginning of the year, PLEASE fucking scrap Houston clay champs, and only play 3 summer HC events (both TMS events and Indy, screw Legg Masson). As for his indoor stuff, he needs to play both TMS events and an optional event. He can play in Thailand again, though I wouldn't if I were him. I would play an optional event the week or 2 weeks before playing TMS Madrid, then play TMS Paris and then it's off to Houston (I expect him to play at the TMC every year if he's healthy for the large majority of the year)

tangerine_dream
10-18-2004, 08:58 PM
From Jon Werthiem's column today. :)

Quick question: 1) If you're Brad Gilbert, what are you telling Andy Roddick he needs to work on to match up with Roger Federer?
* -- Michael Patterson, Burbank, Calif.

If I'm Gilbert I'm telling Roddick that "Roger Federer is a year older than you are and, in theory, will be out of tennis a year before you." Just kidding. I tell Roddick: A) To work Federer's backhand. As with Sampras, it is the weaker wing. B) Junk it up a little bit. Roddick tends to fall in love with a strategy -- set up the point with a big forehand; pass crosscourt, etc. It would be nice to see him show Federer a variety of styles just to keep the champ off balance. C) And serve like you've never served before.

Side note: There is a Nike poster near my apartment with a portrait of Federer and text reading, I love windy conditions. I love heat. I love swirling winds. I always get a kick out of this because it is patently false. Like any perfectionist, Federer likes the conditions to be ideal. When the court plays at a different speed than he had anticipated, Federer notices. When the balls don't bounce quite right, he notices. When fans move behind the baseline, he notices. I wonder how long it will be before a particularly resourceful opponent tries to get in his head. Put another way: Federer would have been a prime target for McEnroe's antics. If the rest of the field gets really desperate, I wonder if they will resort to gamesmanship. (Federer, unfortunately, is such a nice guy that any player resorting to psychological warfare would take a public relations*hit.)

Deboogle!.
10-22-2004, 04:27 AM
So do you guys remember this comment from Matt Cronin about Andy's backhand?
http://www.tennisreporters.net/comment_093004.html

Remember I sent it to Brad? Well I used a yahoo email address that I never check, and whoops, it seems mr BG (or someone signing his name) wrote me back :lol:
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Thanks for the watchdog on the reports. With whatever respect is due, the guy doesn't know what he's talking about, Andy's showing signs of improvement on the
backhand, it's not going to happen overnight, like everything else, all in due time. Tennis is a complex sport, I do know technique, we're not looking for a full blown overhaul on his backhand. All the best, BG

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comments, opinions?

superpinkone37
10-22-2004, 06:24 AM
hmmmm. well i guess BG wont be bringing on a technique guy anytime soon lol. just wondering, when did he write this to you? well we know nothings gonna happen overnight and i think we can all agree that we can see some improvements like he said...so i dunno....
thats cool that he wrote back though....assuming it is actually him :yeah:

Deboogle!.
10-22-2004, 02:15 PM
It was dated Oct 5. I only check that email address once every few weeks.

tangerine_dream
10-22-2004, 03:48 PM
Somebody should e-mail Brad that Tennis mag article on Andy's forehand volley and see if you get the same response back.

Deboogle!.
10-22-2004, 06:19 PM
I did ;) I replied to the email "he" sent me and said "oh look, someone showed me this too" :angel:

superpinkone37
10-22-2004, 11:35 PM
cool....lets see what "he" says about that, lol

Deboogle!.
11-20-2004, 07:02 PM
*sigh*

bump.