Is Gilbert holding Roddick back? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Is Gilbert holding Roddick back?

WyveN
09-10-2004, 10:25 AM
With this QF loss to Joachim Johansson -- who not only defeated Roddick, but defeated him at his own game in front of Roddick's home crowd -- what is the next step for Andy Roddick?

Drafting a gameplan to combat Roger Federer isn't necessarily needed
(Federer has denied Roddick only two tournaments this year: Wimbledon and
Toronto). Roddick is losing to players other than Federer, as evidenced by
his inability to justify his seeding at the majors (the only successful
occurrence being a final at Wimbledon as the No. 2 seed). He also has failed
to develop any significant win-streaks, as he did last summer.

Roddick's power game is devastating, but on days when he's off (between
Melbourne and Miami), or his power is nullified (as on clay), or on the rare
occasion when he is overpowered (Safin in Melbourne, Johansson at Flushing
Meadows, Federer at Wimbledon (outfinessed), Gonzalez at olympics), Roddick has no plan B on which to fall back on. And Roddick's game is noticeably tactics-deficient, as he instead plays on raw instinct and nothing else.

Is it time for Roddick and Gilbert to modify Andy's approach to the game?
Develop tactics against certain styles of play that don't necessarily rely
solely upon power? Is it possible for Roddick to even do so?

Or has Andy gotten themost he could from chatter box who seems to be a good motivator but a lousy coaching tactician.

2Tough4Men
09-10-2004, 10:27 AM
Did you call Brad Gilbert a lousy tactician????

And edit your original spelling of "lowsy"?

WyveN
09-10-2004, 10:42 AM
Did you call Brad Gilbert a lousy tactician????

Coaching wise, yes. Gilbert's ability to get 200% out of his own game has created the perception that he is a great coach: he advocates
fitting your skills to the opponent's weaknesses - and in his own case,
since he had very few skills, that sometimes produced great results but I have seen both Agassi and Roddick make very average strategic decisions under him.
For example Roddick standing a huge distance behind the baseline while returning second serves.

2Tough4Men
09-10-2004, 10:57 AM
Coaching wise, yes. Gilbert's ability to get 200% out of his own game has created the perception that he is a great coach: he advocates
fitting your skills to the opponent's weaknesses - and in his own case,
since he had very few skills, that sometimes produced great results but I have seen both Agassi and Roddick make very average strategic decisions under him.
For example Roddick standing a huge distance behind the baseline while returning second serves.

Wyven, that doesn't have to be a tactical failing on his part. He can't play the match for his players, and they cannot always do what he wants them to.

But really, I don't think there's a better tactician than Brad. Whether Andy can soak it up is another thing.

Dirk
09-10-2004, 11:40 AM
What makes you think Andy can do what you think he needs to do? Brad was crucial in Andy having such an amazing 2003.

Daniel
09-10-2004, 11:45 AM
no

Thanks to Albert, Andy improved a lot and won the US open last year.

wongqks
09-10-2004, 11:58 AM
not too sure but I hate Brad, he is the main reason why I always cheer against Andy, he is like the worst of the worst cocky american

Billabong
09-10-2004, 12:01 PM
lol;)!

heya
09-10-2004, 12:17 PM
He has a fast serve, but he isn't as powerful as people think.
Forehand should have less topspin. Backhand should be more forceful.
His stomach & back aren't very strong.

He never had great coaching. That's why Roddick's insecure & hesitant to change.
He's not really dedicated. All he does are party with bimbos, drink beer, get fat, play & watch other sports. He was encouraged to act like macho basketball & baseball players.

Gilbert wants adulation for being narrow-minded.

He's an ugly pusher, so he selfishly enjoys ball bludgeoning.
There's nothing appealing about a poorly-placed world record serve, but he disagrees.

He thinks he knows a lot, yet he ignores effective tactics (angles, drop shops, lobs or flat serves).

It's useless to waste energy while bashing the ball, but he can't care less.
Telling kids to slam forehands at others' weak backhands doesn't mean they'll win.

He can't be a practice partner either.

sigmagirl91
09-10-2004, 12:19 PM
He has a fast serve, but he isn't as powerful as people think.
Forehand should have less topspin. Backhand should be more forceful.
His stomach & back aren't very strong.

He never had great coaching. That's why Roddick's insecure & hesitant to change.
He's not really dedicated. All he does is party with bimbos, drink beer, get fat, play & watch other sports. He was encouraged to act like macho basketball & baseball players.

Gilbert wants adulation for being narrow-minded.

He's an ugly pusher, so he selfishly enjoys ball bludgeoning.
There's nothing appealing about a poor-placed world record serve, but he disagrees.

He thinks he knows a lot, yet he ignores effective tactics (angles, drop shops, lobs or flat serves).

It's useless to waste energy while bashing the ball, but he can't care less.
Telling kids to slam forehands at others' weak backhands doesn't mean they'll win.

He can't be a practice partner either.

:confused: :retard:
Classic troll response, littered with bad grammar. How lucky can we get?

Marc Rosset is Tall
09-10-2004, 12:19 PM
Wyven, that doesn't have to be a tactical failing on his part. He can't play the match for his players, and they cannot always do what he wants them to.

But really, I don't think there's a better tactician than Brad. Whether Andy can soak it up is another thing.

Wilander is a better tactician than Gilbert, and he proved that when he was a player.

Obviously, he can't play the matches for his players, but Roddick does lack another plan when his normal game is not working, and that was the same for Agassi as well when Gilbert was coaching him.

heya
09-10-2004, 12:59 PM
Keep "bitching," Fast-replying Troll Girl. You don't contribute as much as the other Nalbandian fans. What's your motive?:kiss:

I make typos when I type fast at night. My 1st language isn't English & that's bad luck for you, Troll Girl.

sigmagirl91
09-10-2004, 01:00 PM
Keep "bitching," Fast-replying Troll Girl. You don't contribute as much as the other Nalbandian fans. What's your motive?:kiss:

I make typos when I type fast at night. My 1st language isn't English & that's bad luck for you, Troll Girl.


Apparently, you hide out in Andy land, because I have more posts than most of the Nalby fans, as if your blind ass can't figure that out by now.

alfonsojose
09-10-2004, 01:02 PM
Navratilova should coach Andy. She volleys way better than Gilbert

SaFed2005
09-10-2004, 01:04 PM
Ooops! i voted for the wrong option...

Richard Cranium
09-10-2004, 01:07 PM
Gilbert has helped Roddick for sure, but personally I hope they stay together, as he won't be able to progress on his worst surface, whereas many of his peers attempt to improve on their respective worst surfaces.

tennischick
09-10-2004, 01:14 PM
Brad's great strength IMO is as a scout. what he does best is observe opponents and tell his players what to do to beat them. he is terrific at this -- quite possibly the best.

when Agassi was his student, this was a crucial strength that helped Agassi come back from 141 in the world. it wasn't the ONLY factor -- Andre's fitness regime under Gil Reyes was probably even more critical -- but Brad's contribution was an important one. once Andre started dominating again, Brad's services became dispensable -- which is why Agassi dispensed with him the minute Darren Cahill became available. Agassi knew that he needed an all-round coach, not just a unidimensional scout.

now for Brad and Duckboy as a combo. it worked last year bec Brad started off by telling the Duck how to beat Agassi at Queen's. (which is why Agassi was sooooo pissed -- perhaps he felt betrayed). Brad continued to scout for the Duck all summer. but even back then i insisted that Brad had not significantly added to Tariq's coaching base. i still believe this. altho' to be fair, he also helped him to improve his backhand a tad, and to stop falling down and faking cramps.

so how does a Scout help a Duck beat a player like Pim Pim? by telling him "well he has a big serve but he has no backhand so just keep picking on his backhand and you'll win". that IMO was the essence of the strategy. it didn't work. and as someone else pointed out, the Duck has no Plan B. his game is completelyy unidimensional.

should Brad and Duckboy go separate ways? i'm not sure bec a good scout is a useful addendum to any entourage. but Duckboy could sure use a decent coach right about now.

Richard Cranium
09-10-2004, 01:17 PM
Best thing Gilbert did was to improve Duck's backhand to the average level and getting rid of that visor.

tennischick
09-10-2004, 01:18 PM
He has a fast serve, but he isn't as powerful as people think.
Forehand should have less topspin. Backhand should be more forceful.
His stomach & back aren't very strong.

He never had great coaching. That's why Roddick's insecure & hesitant to change.
He's not really dedicated. All he does are party with bimbos, drink beer, get fat, play & watch other sports. He was encouraged to act like macho basketball & baseball players.

Gilbert wants adulation for being narrow-minded.

He's an ugly pusher, so he selfishly enjoys ball bludgeoning.
There's nothing appealing about a poorly-placed world record serve, but he disagrees.

He thinks he knows a lot, yet he ignores effective tactics (angles, drop shops, lobs or flat serves).

It's useless to waste energy while bashing the ball, but he can't care less.
Telling kids to slam forehands at others' weak backhands doesn't mean they'll win.

He can't be a practice partner either.
i actually agree with some of this. ;)

Richard Cranium
09-10-2004, 01:22 PM
Well heya, good to see that unlike some people that you can see the obvious.

tangerine_dream
09-10-2004, 03:50 PM
What I thought was interesting last night was that Gilbert seemed far more devastated by Andy's loss than Andy himself did. I mean, he looked really depressed!

Andy seems to have hit a wall lately. His game has improved, but the results aren't the same as last year's. It's gotta be frustrating for Team Roddick.

One thing I wish Gilbert would do is quit focusing on Andy's strengths and start working on his weaknesses. Yes, the backhand has improved but his volleying skills under pressure still need a lot of work. And Andy's got to learn to quit being distracted by bad line calls and having these angry fits. He was not focused at all last night.

speedracer
09-10-2004, 04:03 PM
I did not notice any tactics yesterday. Pim Pim was good, but Roddick did not explore his mediocre backhand and movement. Roddick also looked a little tired to me. He probably spent too much energy showing off in the early rounds. But I feel it was a plan- create an unbeatable image and intimidate the field right from the start.

deekaye
09-10-2004, 04:14 PM
About "Gilbert holding Roddick back" With this QF loss to Joachim Johansson -- who not only defeated Roddick, but defeated him at his own game in front of Roddick's home crowd -- what is the next step for Andy Roddick?

Drafting a gameplan to combat Roger Federer isn't necessarily needed
(Federer has denied Roddick only two tournaments this year: Wimbledon and
Toronto). Roddick is losing to players other than Federer, as evidenced by
his inability to justify his seeding at the majors (the only successful
occurrence being a final at Wimbledon as the No. 2 seed). He also has failed
to develop any significant win-streaks, as he did last summer.

Roddick's power game is devastating, but on days when he's off (between
Melbourne and Miami), or his power is nullified (as on clay), or on the rare
occasion when he is overpowered (Safin in Melbourne, Johansson at Flushing
Meadows, Federer at Wimbledon (outfinessed), Gonzalez at olympics), Roddick has no plan B on which to fall back on. And Roddick's game is noticeably tactics-deficient, as he instead plays on raw instinct and nothing else.

Is it time for Roddick and Gilbert to modify Andy's approach to the game?
Develop tactics against certain styles of play that don't necessarily rely
solely upon power? Is it possible for Roddick to even do so?

Or has Andy gotten themost he could from chatter box who seems to be a good motivator but a lousy coaching tactician.

Mechlan
09-10-2004, 04:30 PM
Brad is the right coach for Andy. As far as playing up your own strengths and just playing smart, he really excels. And those are things Roddick needs. Plus, something tells me the two of them have a good rapport... :rolleyes:

deekaye
09-10-2004, 04:32 PM
B Gilbert has helped Roddick for sure, but personally I hope they stay together, as he won't be able to progress on his worst surface, whereas many of his peers attempt to improve on their respective worst surfaces.
===============
Brad points out to his 'pupil' the opponent's strengths and weaknesses and then probably ends with "go out and kick ass." It is too early to say that Roddick has to dispense with his coach,but I feel that Gilbert needs to curb his pupil's playing on adrenaline alone. A wise coach should be saying "Cool it...play with your head,study the situation,adjust your game when necessary.I am up there in the stands.... I can't help you there. The game now is about more than monster serves and mighty forehands. He may be an exception here but Federer already say he can read Roddick's serve. Another coach would probably advise Roddick to conserve energy by cutting out all those silly superstitious gestures,such as lifting and adjusting his cap,tugging at the left and right shoulder of his shirt,3 or 4 times before every point.What on earth is all that about? Stop playing the brash clown and settle down to some serious business.Roddick is still immature but there is an honesty about him which does him credit. He accepts defeat without whinging,and that is one of the attributes of a champion.

Deekaye

SLICK
09-10-2004, 04:42 PM
Until Paul Annacone or Darren Cahill become available to help Andy become a more all-court player, he better stick with Gilbert. There is no point changing what has been a very successful partnership now.

Dirk
09-10-2004, 05:23 PM
Paul won't go anywhere for a few more years and Darren will go with Rogi once Andre is gone.

SLICK
09-10-2004, 05:27 PM
Really? What makes you so sure about all that. If Andre chooses to play for another 2 or 3 years, is Roger really going to wait that long before hiring a coach?

AgassiFan
09-10-2004, 05:49 PM
With this QF loss to Joachim Johansson -- who not only defeated Roddick, but defeated him at his own game in front of Roddick's home crowd -- what is the next step for Andy Roddick?

Drafting a gameplan to combat Roger Federer isn't necessarily needed
(Federer has denied Roddick only two tournaments this year: Wimbledon and
Toronto). Roddick is losing to players other than Federer, as evidenced by
his inability to justify his seeding at the majors (the only successful
occurrence being a final at Wimbledon as the No. 2 seed). He also has failed
to develop any significant win-streaks, as he did last summer.

Roddick's power game is devastating, but on days when he's off (between
Melbourne and Miami), or his power is nullified (as on clay), or on the rare
occasion when he is overpowered (Safin in Melbourne, Johansson at Flushing
Meadows, Federer at Wimbledon (outfinessed), Gonzalez at olympics), Roddick has no plan B on which to fall back on. And Roddick's game is noticeably tactics-deficient, as he instead plays on raw instinct and nothing else.

Is it time for Roddick and Gilbert to modify Andy's approach to the game?
Develop tactics against certain styles of play that don't necessarily rely
solely upon power? Is it possible for Roddick to even do so?

Or has Andy gotten themost he could from chatter box who seems to be a good motivator but a lousy coaching tactician.

What do you consider Darren Cahill's strenghts and weaknesses as a coach?

Iheartandy&roger
09-10-2004, 06:36 PM
Hell yah he is what a stupid question Gilbert brought the best out in Andy and still is!!!

gillian
09-10-2004, 07:17 PM
Navratilova should coach Andy. She volleys way better than Gilbert

While I have no strong feelings one way or the other (re: the Gilbert/Roddick coaching relationship), this response just cracked me up!

Black Adam
09-10-2004, 07:57 PM
About "Gilbert holding Roddick back"
IF RODDICK IS A NUMBER TWO SEED WHO IS NOT PERFORMING as expected...... what can we say of moya or rainer schuetler............ please do not forget that andy has spent more time on the court more than anyone else in terms of matches , sets and time. anyway i think thaat andy better keep on with brad till probably the end of his career.....coz brad has helped andy make the top 3

Éowyn
09-10-2004, 10:25 PM
Ooops! i voted for the wrong option...

so did i! i read the title and answered no then read the question adn realise dmy answer should have been yes oops!

anywhobies my answer is yes brad is absolutely the right man for andy he is not holding him back in anyway, yes andy is no longer the world number one but there is no doubt that he IS a better player than he was last year. his forehand has become more solid his backhand has majorly improved and his net play is improving too. And that IS due to brad. Andy will come back from this and keep improving i wouldn't be at all surprised to see Andy storm it next year.

leave brad alone he's a good guy and works hard and knows what he's talking about,